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SB 1070, the regressive ethnic cleansing law in Arizona, received a huge boost after supporters claimed a beloved rancher on the Arizona-Mexico border had been shot dead by undocumented immigrants.

The truth, however, might be a bit different.

The killing of a Southern Arizona rancher that sparked an outcry to secure the border was not random, and investigators are focusing on an American suspect, the Arizona Daily Star has learned.

High-ranking government officials with credible information spoke to the Star, citing a desire to quell the fury over illegal immigration and drug smuggling set off by the shooting death of longtime rancher Robert Krentz on March 27.

They said Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever is investigating a person in the United States, not in Mexico, in connection with the shooting.

Krentz was known as a kind soul who helped immigrants crossing through his property. He wasn't a hateful xenophobe. But even if his murderer turned out to be Mexican, the circumstances of the case still suggest it was a drug hit -- which would still have little bearing on the immigration debate.

The drug smuggler infestation (whether white or brown) at the border is at true crisis levels. But the drug issue has nothing to do with the immigration issue. Drug runners aren't crossing the border looking to get jobs mowing lawns, and demanding to see immigration papers at a Tucson bus stop won't make a dent in the drug cartels.

Those same gangsters don't just endanger Americans living near the border, but also prey on poor immigrants trying to cross, murdering, raping, and stealing from the destitute seeking only a better life for themselves, and willing to work for next-to-nothing to guarantee Americans can still enjoy cheap food and services. Problem is, SB 1070 does nothing to deal with the violent drug smuggling at the border.

There are two broken policies here -- the immigration system, which desperately needs reform, and the drug war, which is costing people their lives and essentially turning Mexico into a narco state in order to irrationally keep people from smoking freakin' weed.

But conservative ideologues were more interested in bending reality to suit their agenda, and rather than focus on the failed drug war, which cost this good Samaritan rancher his life, his tragic death was used to justify the worst xenophobic sentiments.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:46 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Agree 1 billion percent (18+ / 0-)

    "Children lack morality, but they also lack fake morality." Mignon McLaughlin

    by djbender on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:48:34 PM PDT

    •  Agree to infinity ... (8+ / 0-)

      And, dude, does that fit on the head of a pin?

      The Republican brand: "Consequences, schmonsequences, as long as I'm rich"

      by D in Northern Virginia on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:49:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kos is stopping short of the major implication (10+ / 0-)

      That OUR marijuana prohibition laws are creaing this very situation.

      Every person who lifts a finger to stop the reform of these STUPID laws IS supporting violent organized crime.

      Legalize and regulate the Herb, bitches, or watch the violence get worse.

      Those are your only choices.

      (Well, you could be politicians and try to implement all manner of half-assed, unrelated things, but that falls on the side of nurturing the enemy - organized crime.)

      Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
      Doc in the Twitterverse

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:11:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wrong on one MAJOR point... (0+ / 0-)

      But the drug issue has nothing to do with the immigration issue. Drug runners aren't crossing the border looking to get jobs mowing lawns, and demanding to see immigration papers at a Tucson bus stop won't make a dent in the drug cartels.

      Drug smuggling and illegal immigration are attached-at-the-hip; one-and-the-same.  The reason is painfully simple:

      The men that are hired by the Mexican drug cartels are not in the drug business. They are in the smuggling business!  They are paid (very well) for bringing illegal cargo across the border.  It doesn't matter if the cargo is Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, or Human Beings.

      Mexicans who wish to cross into the US illegally often do not run across by themselves.  Where will they stay?  How will they find a job?  How will they survive crossing hundreds of miles of scorching desert on their own?  

      Immigrants will usually employ a Coyote (human smuggler) to get them safely across the border.  Usually, this trip will end in one of hundreds of drop-houses, sometimes filled with dozens of other illegal immigrants.  From here, they assume that they will be set up with a job, and begin pursuing their own "American Dream".

      It often does not pan out this way.

      The cost of a Coyote's service runs from the thousands to the tens-of-thousands of dollars.  Immigrants might find themselves in a type of indentured servitude to the men who smuggled them.  If the immigrant has family stateside, the bill may be paid in cash.  Unfortunately, if a family has enough to pay for a trip across the border, they likely also have the cash to pay for the ransom of their relative when the Coyote decides to triple the cost of their services.  What happens if they don't pay?  The immigrant may be released missing an ear or a couple of fingers.  If the immigrant is female, the Coyote and some of his friends might find another way of squaring the tab.  Or, they'll just be driven out to the desert and shot in the head.

      Every crime associated with drug smuggling applies to human smuggling as well.  Just 5 years ago, two rival gangs got into a rush-hour firefight with assault rifles on the I-10.  They weren't arguing over cocaine.  They were arguing over people.  A smuggler will defend $50,000 worth of illegal immigrants just as violently as he will defend $50,000 of Heroin.

      Please, stop spreading the fallacy that the two issues are not related.  They are inseparable!

  •  The (16+ / 0-)

    news that the murderer might be American, does not surprise me one bit.  The news that it has to do with drug smuggling makes more sense.  This law is not going to help with that, you couldn't be more correct.

    http://www.thehamandlegsshow.com

  •  Execution for being known Good Samaritan n/t (4+ / 0-)

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

    by Egalitare on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:50:19 PM PDT

    •  If I Was Dona Perino on FOX News, I'd accuse (4+ / 0-)

      some right wing militia of killing Robert Krentz to support passage of this legislation.

      Not that I want to start a conspiracy theory, but what if that's what happened?  

      (I'll wait patiently for FOX news to pick this up and spread it endlessly throughout their echo chamber till Rush and Glen both pick it up.)

      [crickets]

      It's 'redistribution' whether it happens before or after the money is made and whether it goes up to a small group or down to a larger one.

      by Into The Woods on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:40:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your argument is too nuanced (17+ / 0-)

    the SB 1070 supporters only understand:

    USA!...USA!...USA!...

    and

    If you can't speak English get the hell out of America!

    Fox News in a Nutshell: IOKIYAR and INOKIYO (It's Not OK If You're Obama)

    by wry twinger on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:52:15 PM PDT

  •  Please! Won't SOMEBODY think of the drug cartels? (7+ / 0-)

    Umm, that's PRESIDENT Obama and SENATOR Franken, mr. o'reilly.

    by filby on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:52:50 PM PDT

  •  Oh great, now we have to ban Americans in AZ. (7+ / 0-)

    On the plus side, these cascading bans on this or that human population are great news for gila monsters and other threatened non-human species in Arizona, and for the ecosystem generally.

    When your dream comes true, you're out one dream --The Nields

    by Rich in PA on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:52:58 PM PDT

    •  Don't forget the Old Ones and the Deep Ones. (0+ / 0-)

      Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

      by Dauphin on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:56:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Prove You are Not a Drug Smuggler! (0+ / 0-)

      I have a reasonable suspicion that you may not be able to prove you're not a drug smuggler.

      Prove you're not or I'll have to take you to jail.

      It's 'redistribution' whether it happens before or after the money is made and whether it goes up to a small group or down to a larger one.

      by Into The Woods on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:42:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A xenophobe just needs an excuse to justify (7+ / 0-)

    whatever policy s/he can manage.

    And even without an excuse, the bellyaching will still remain.  "Know-nothings" have been a component of the Republican party since the fission of the Whigs.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    -Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:54:29 PM PDT

  •  The media now drives (7+ / 0-)
    the politcis in this country.  Just look at what they did to Acorn.

    They have twice now actually enabled the GOP to manipulate actions that the majority of Americans disagree with.

    When will it stop??!!

    The Republican Party is the bully on the playground.

    by cyeko on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:55:02 PM PDT

  •  Yell (0+ / 0-)

    Like is turning out to be a witch hunt. Some one dies and they blame the poor, the people that cant defend themselves. Those that they would treat as less than human.
    Wow conservatives are really going back to the old hand book.
    Dunking = water boarding
    speaking in tongues = only English
    inquisition = search of papers.
    cant wait for the quartering and the burning at the stake.

    White conservatives moving into the 18th century.

    How do you keep and Idiot in suspense? Ill tell you later!

    by rageagnstmach on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:55:36 PM PDT

  •  Dollar Store Selling Sombreros Made In China (13+ / 0-)

    I saw that this weekend.

    The jobs that NAFTA brought to Mexico have gone to China and other cheaper countries. If they had work in Mexico, they would stay home. This is yet another common problem for Mexico and the US getting lumped into an "us versus the immigrants" frame. People hiking across the desert are a symptom of a macroeconomic problem, not the cause.

  •  Do I hear a dog whistle? (6+ / 0-)

    SB 1070, the regressive ethnic cleansing law in Arizona,

    Kos, please.  It ain't that different from the existing Federal law, you know, the one that doesn't get enforced?

    Let's call this for what it is.  It ain't hardly "ethic cleansing".  Arizona is not Bosnia.The Rethugs have simply called the Feds bluff on enforcement and now we are using the issue to rally the base for 2010.  Shame on us all.  

    If the enforcement clauses that punish the sweatshop owners and Big Ag companies were actually enforced, they would scream, and stop giving money to both parties.

    What we really need is tighter borders, a National ID program and a workable guest worker program, so that all of our fine neighbors from South of the Rio Grande can be paid a living wage and receive proper benefits for picking our lettuce, cleaning our houses, making our meals and working in our factories.  

    That's the big not so ugly secret.   Big Business wants those people, so that they can exploit them for "doing all those jobs that Americans won't do", the jobs that don't pay a living wage or benefits.  

    [No wonder Americans don't want them - they wouldn't stand for that!]

    I yam what I yam. And that's all what I yam.

    by SpamNunn on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:55:56 PM PDT

    •  Yes, it is different from federal law (9+ / 0-)

      Good of you to buy into a RW talking point though.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:58:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Read 'em both. Have you? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        erush1345

        Not everyone who disagrees with you is parroting "RW talking points".  

        I yam what I yam. And that's all what I yam.

        by SpamNunn on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:07:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I have read both (4+ / 0-)

          Notice how on day one it was 90% similar to the federal bill, then transformed into just "the same", and then was amended by the AZ legislature to remove some of the more egregious unconstitutional elements.

          But really, at the end of the day it doesn't matter, cause this is a simple separation of powers issue.  States simply can't do this.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:16:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm always suspicious of people who claim (6+ / 0-)

          to want to stop exploitation of immigrants, and simultaneously support guest worker programs.

          If we need them to work here, they should have green cards or dual residency visas that give them all the same rights as any other permanent resident. Let the employers compete for their labor.

          Guest worker visas are a form of exploitation.

          •  Absolutely not. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            erush1345

            If we need them to work here, they should have green cards or dual residency visas that give them all the same rights as any other permanent resident.

            They're not citizens.  They are guests, who we give a limited right to work here.  That's how it works in other countries.  That being said, if they are going to work here, they should be on an even footing with American workers, vis-a-vis wages, working conditions and workers compensation.  

            All the same rights?  Why?  Health care?  No.  In Japan, you have to buy it in order to work there.  

            Eligibility for assistance?  No.   Work or go home.  

            No need to be suspicious of me.  I am not afraid to tell you exactly what I believe.  

            I yam what I yam. And that's all what I yam.

            by SpamNunn on Mon May 03, 2010 at 02:00:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  SpamNunn buying into a right-wing talking point? (2+ / 0-)

        Say it ain't so.  I respect the guy but there is nothing new about that.

        Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

        by bythesea on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:27:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I rec'd your comment only (5+ / 0-)

      because I agree that "ethnic cleansing" is way over the top.

      The rest of your comment, not so recommendable.

    •  I disagree - Kos nailed it (7+ / 0-)

      That law IS about ethnic cleansing.

      America STARTED ethnic cleansing with the genocide against the Natives.

      America has been in the ethnic cleansing business for generations.

      Torture good, Healthcare bad, Marijuana evil.
      Doc in the Twitterverse

      by xxdr zombiexx on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:15:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  These people are not being (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sargoth

        lined up and killed.  

        •  That is not ethnic cleansing (5+ / 0-)

          necessarily. Do not argue against a definition that you do not understand. Genocide is when people are lined up and killed. Ethnic cleansing is any of many policies that a government can pursue to drive people of a certain ethnicity out of a certain area, up to and including violence, but instituting police repression, using particular laws to single out particular ethnic groups, and promoting racism are all other ways that a government can practice ethnic cleansing.

          The end result of this law is that Latinos will be harassed by law enforcement, and even US citizens will probably want to move out of Arizona. I think Kos is fully justified calling this ethnic cleansing. I think we should use that term in order to help our fellow Americans understand the gravity of this situation.

          "The government needs to spend its money on more important things, such as anti-tobacco programs, pro-tobacco programs, killing wild donkeys, and Israel."

          by Lost Left Coaster on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:29:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Fair enough, but does it matter (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sargoth, erush1345

            at all that many people are here illegally?  It is not so much ethnic cleansing as removal of criminals.  And, as hard as it may be to admit for some here, they are criminals.  They have broken laws of our country.

            How to stop it is a problem, but just leaving them here, unpunished, is not the answer.  It can not be the answer, else all other laws are meaningless too.

            The illegality of 75% of the first group of people that were arrested that makes "ethnic cleansing" a bad phrase to use.

            •  It is ethnic cleansing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Lost Left Coaster

              does it matter at all that many people are here illegally?  It is not so much ethnic cleansing as removal of criminals.

              No.
              The law targets people who look like illegal immigrants-- Hispanics. Anyone that looks Mexican is a potential target for harassment by police. That includes American citizens.
              The law is designed to push brown people out of Aryanzona.

              AG Holder is obstructing justice by actively refusing investigation of war crimes.

              by cybersaur on Mon May 03, 2010 at 02:51:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  It may be a more nuanced cleansing than (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z

        what we saw in Bosnia or elsewhere. Essentially it is true that they may not want to eliminate the immigrants (read darker skin that speaks English with an accent or - gasp - speaks Spanish!), but they sure want to put them in their place (i.e. working for a pittance and alienating them to make sure they do not vote - regardless of legal status).

        On a separate note: I know the exploitation of these Hispanics is not anywhere near the institution of Slavery we had here until 100 years ago, but one similarity is that the slave owners didn't want to eliminate the slaves, just to keep them subjugated. Now isn't that the same that these xenophobes want of Hispanics? (essentially to accept their place and be ready to pay the consequences, all the while providing cheap labor than enriches many of the xenophobes)

        Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

        by DefendOurConstitution on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:36:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I oppose the law, BUT... (0+ / 0-)

        Let's see how many legal brown skinned people get deported.

        I'm guessing very, very few.

    •  Your post is not only incorrect, it is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, Empty Vessel

      inconsistent.  First, this is not the same as Federal law.  Federal law does not allow cops to stop anyone on any pretext and then demand papers.  Nor does Federal law allow anyone to bring a lawsuit against the cops if they don't carry out the law to the litigant's satisfaction.

      Another point on which you are wrong about the current law, is that the penalties are peanuts to employers and provides loopholes, such as independent contractor provisions.  Comprehensive Immigration Reform proposes harsh penalties and a workable system that would lead to the result you falsely believe the current law can acheive.

      You first say you want a guest worker program, but, then you say "Big Business wants those people, so that they can exploit them for 'doing all those jobs that Americans won't do', the jobs that don't pay a living wage or benefits. " The reason, organized labor is against a guest worker program (and for a path to legalization) is precisely because a guest worker program allows the employers to exploit the "guest" workers, keep wages low and ignore working conditions.  This is also the reason business wants it.  

      If you say what you want is truly what you want, tighter borders, enforced employer sanctions and the people who are performing these jobs doing them in a way where they get a fair wage, decent working conditions and don't undercut US citizen workers, then Comprehensive Immigration Reform is really what you want.

      •  Neither does the AZ law (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        erush1345

        Federal law does not allow cops to stop anyone on any pretext and then demand papers.

        It doesn't say that, and it ain't a right wing talking point to say it does.  It's demagoguery.  

        I yam what I yam. And that's all what I yam.

        by SpamNunn on Mon May 03, 2010 at 02:04:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It does allow that. A cop can stop someone (0+ / 0-)

          saying they were swerving when driving, loitering or any of dozens of other pretexts.  This happens all the time to African Americans.  In fact an email between proponents of the law has become public in which they say this very thing.  They discuss how cops can just say someone was being too noisy and use that as a pretext to ask for their papers.

          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

            If a city or county has an anti-noise ordinance, being noisy IS pretext for being pulled over.  My old hometown had one (not so much about music, but about people putting pipes on their car/truck exhaust to make lots of noise)

            "It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first." - Ronald Reagan

            by erush1345 on Mon May 03, 2010 at 03:07:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The key statistic is how many people that (0+ / 0-)

            get stopped get a ticket and then get convicted.   It ain't a pretext then, it's probable cause.  

            I yam what I yam. And that's all what I yam.

            by SpamNunn on Mon May 03, 2010 at 05:16:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Recced for comment re "ethic cleansing" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, erush1345

      That label really is over the top.  I can't take the rest of the diary seriously because of it.

      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

      by TheOrchid on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:19:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree that it's over the top (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lost Left Coaster, AgavePup

        but that term can be used in a milder sense.  In part of the south many rural (including the one I came from) areas used to have aa populations and they were harassed to the point that they were driven out to the urban areas or to other part of the country altogether.  That was a form of ethnic cleansing in the sense that it sought to get rid of an undesired ethnicity although it was not as violent generally as what happened in say Serbia.

        Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

        by bythesea on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:32:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Undocumented Immigrant (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jct, DefendOurConstitution, DaNang65

    communities have lower rates of crime than the national average.  If we want to lower the crime rate in this country, open the borders wide.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:56:55 PM PDT

    •  Quit talking about (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Desert Rose, Empty Vessel, Azazello

      my part of town. lol

      I had a brother at Khe Sanh, fightin' off them Viet Cong, they're still there, but he's all gone. The Boss

      by DaNang65 on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:59:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Isn't that just lower _reported_ rates of crime? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, sargoth, erush1345

      Can't see undocumented immigrants being much in a hurry to report a burglary to the police.

      The FOX is a common carrier of rabies, a virus that leaves its victims foaming at the mouth and causes paranoia and hallucinations.

      by Calouste on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:06:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Your semantics astound me. (0+ / 0-)

      I admire the way you and others nicely label these folks as undocumented workers.

      But I don't necessarily agree with your label. Why can't we refer to them as illegal immigrants? I believe they are in violation of our immigration laws and these laws have many benefits to our country.

      1. They keep people with contagious diseases from entering our country.
      1. They also keep people with criminal records from entering our country.
      1. They control the number of people entering our country so our economy doesn't suffer.

      I don't advocate hatred towards these folks and as a country I hope we increase the number of legal immigrants. We currently allow one million people per year to enter our country legally.

      But I also think laws should be obeyed until they are changed. Illegals knowingly enter our country against the law because we don't enforce it. Is amnesty the best solution for all of us? I am not so sure.

      The Arizona law appears to be spawned by hatred and I don't advocate that. I would like to see the laws we have either enforced or rewritten.

      "Problems cannot be solved by the level of awareness that created them", Albert Einstein

      by Bubbatoby on Mon May 03, 2010 at 03:54:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Drug smugglers are generally NOT (3+ / 0-)

    illegal.  They need to maintain the outward aspects of legality.  

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:57:03 PM PDT

  •  Thus, the illegality of smoking a weed (10+ / 0-)

    accounts for the obscene control of the weed market by the killers and for their heinous deeds.

    Hence, to remove the control of the weed market by the killers, cultivation, selling, buying and consuming should be brought from oppressive illegality to open, legitimate commerce, regulated and taxed by federal, state and local government, all of which would then prosper accordingly, and the killers would lose their incentives to kill.

    Too logical?

    Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. -Carl Sagan

    by howardfromUSA on Mon May 03, 2010 at 12:59:17 PM PDT

  •  First, let's win the drug war. Then immigration. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wry twinger, gravlax

    And after that, peace in the Middle East.

  •  Two broken policies....everywhere we look (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DefendOurConstitution, gravlax

    is evidence of broken policies:

    the oil spill = broken environmental protection laws
    and broken tort laws

    the economic collapes = broken economic laws and broken campaign finance laws

    Iraq/Afghanistan wars = broken foreign policy

    The list goes on.  The reactionaries have been running this country for decades, right into the ground.

  •  Irony... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gravlax

    If it was a drug hit from Mexico, ironically the gun probably came from Texas:

    http://current.com/...

    http://www.leftyblogs.com/...

    http://www.leftyblogs.com/...

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. Read the PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT Newsletter

    by mole333 on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:04:28 PM PDT

  •  Do you think maybe it is about the F'n money (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, gravlax
    that Arizona and the rest of the states spend on illegals?????

    http://www.kvoa.com/...

  •  Nice post Markos (5+ / 0-)

    Well-argued and goodhearted.

  •  I wish this were a simple issue, (4+ / 0-)

    with real clear lines, right vs. left. But it's not. There's a good diary up right now on how the cartels are also smuggling the immigrants. The immigration and drug issues are intertwined. The Pinal County Deputy was not shot by an American.
    What about the labor issue ? Of course the Arizona law is racist, no doubt. But it is also true that immigrant labor has been used to bust unions and immigrants are doing jobs that Americans would gladly do. Do we not stand with Labor ?

  •  Did he have a backwards B carved in his face? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dwayne

    When was the last time we had one of these stories about dangerous evil nonwhite people that didn't turn out to be either a fabrication or distorted beyond all recognition?

  •  Only the very lowest rung of the drug (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CParis, DefendOurConstitution, dwayne

    running ladder even resembles the average undocumented worker at all, and they head back as soon as they've made a delivery...to perfectly legal (immigration-wise) recipients. "Papers, Please" won't help at all. Besides, the druggies that do stay here and drive around will be provided with much better fake ID than the real ID most of us carry.

    "They paved paradise, and put in a parking lot."
    "...Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"
    - Joni Mitchell

    by davewill on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:10:21 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, but it's very convenient and easy for GOP (0+ / 0-)

      to conflate the two.  To them it's a no-brainer (not that many of them ever had one!) because they get to demonize all immigrants, scare (some say even promote violence) so that legal immigrants won't vote, and keep the scary shit going to they xenophobic base:

      1. Immigrants = crime/drugs
      1. Immigrants = lost jobs for "mericans"
      1. Immigrants don't pay taxes (of course they like to ignore the fact that most illegal immigrants have taxes collected by their employers, who pocket the taxes/FICA/Medicare since they know the workers will never file a tax return)

      The simplicity of the three arguments will make sure that we continue hearing them until election day and - if the Senate ever takes up immigration reform - we will hear it often from Senate GOPosaurs.

      Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

      by DefendOurConstitution on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:26:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But immigration gets swallowed up in it because (4+ / 0-)

    of the tie to borders.

    It is absolutely unfair to bundle people trying to better their lives and those of their families with vicious criminals popping across the border to do nasty business.

    But...

    That's what happen when you ignore a festering sore.

    Just as desperate patients will go to third world locations to seek psychic healing, people will scattershoot at a problem in the hope of hitting it.

    A good step towards real and rational immigration policies would be real and rational border enforcement.

    Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

    by dinotrac on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:11:00 PM PDT

    •  *sigh* (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac

      It is absolutely unfair to bundle people trying to better their lives and those of their families with vicious criminals popping across the border to do nasty business.

      The vicious criminals who get paid for the nasty business of smuggling cocaine are the same criminals who get paid for smuggling immigrants!

      •  Yes. But they are not the immigrants. (0+ / 0-)

        There can be no question that securing the borders will also stem the flow of illegal immigrants, but criminals and immigrants are different populations.

        It seems there may be a useful path forward that begins with that understanding, as in --

        Control the borders to stop the thugs might be doable with one bill that makes people feel a little safer and elminates recriminations, while...

        A more deliberate and considered process attacks the actual problem of immigration and immigrants.

        I suspect the first will have to have some kind of temporary legal status that brings resident illegal within the law.

        Free speech? Yeah, I've heard of that. Have you?

        by dinotrac on Mon May 03, 2010 at 03:52:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Arizona law (11+ / 0-)

    I am a Cochise County Arizona resident.  I was very saddened by the killing of Mr Krentz.  I agree that drug running and the ordinary illegal immigrants have nothing to do with each other.  

    I wonder if legalizing at least marijuana would solve some of the problem?  (This is coming from a 68 year old Grandma who never smoked pot in her life.)

    •  Another Cochise County resident here. (0+ / 0-)

      I think that legalizing marijuana would put a significant dent in the drug violence along the border.

      The way to combat noxious ideas is with other ideas. The way to combat falsehoods is with truth. - William O. Douglas

      by PSzymeczek on Mon May 03, 2010 at 03:08:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hmmm... (0+ / 0-)

    What if we proposed a law to check for Italian looking people for 'papers' during the organized crime sprees in the 20's as a result of prohibition?  I bet that would have gone over well.

    To the WH: "It's your job to f*ck-up power; it's Fox's job to f*ck-up truth.' - Jon Stewart

    by RichM on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:16:51 PM PDT

  •  Just how tough (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erush1345

    would it be to own and manage 35,000 acres on the border, in a known smuggling route?
    May his killer rot in jail for a long, long, time.

    I'll put on my glasses.... and tell you how sweet your ass is. (w/ apologies to Señor Bega)

    by mHainds on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:17:33 PM PDT

  •  This is brilliant parsing of a truly (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SoCaliana, gravlax, AgavePup

    heinous, manipulated political brand...Republicanism exposed in all its shame.

    How can people call themselves Republicans anymore? How can they subscribe to a political creed that has no credible foundation in morality? It is rather a corporate brand, and this cheap two-fer of immigration and drug smuggling is their boldest, most subversive distraction from the truth.

    They only call it class war when we fight back! h/t: buhdydharma The work goes on....

    by ezdidit on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:21:09 PM PDT

  •  It's too late. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mike Peterson

    The meme that this guy was murdered by illegal immigrants has already gotten wide circulation, and is now just as much an accepted truism as the idea that Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet.  No putting this one back in the box now.

  •  I don't see where the original source said (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erush1345

    the suspect is a US citizen.  Just that they are IN the US and not in Mexico. The paper concluded they were American but it's not clear to me based on what.

    I'll be clear, I'm FOR closing the borders (Have been all my adult life so it has nothing at all to do with this rancher) but against the draconian law enacted in Arizona.

    We're all one heartbeat away from Forever. kasandra.us

    by KS Rose on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:27:33 PM PDT

  •  More facts to add... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AgavePup

    In fact, according to BJS, crime rates in border states have dropped during past decade

    Crime rates in Arizona at lowest point in decades.

    http://mediamatters.org/...

  •  businesses are hiring illegal immigrants (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sargoth, SoCaliana, Azazello

    but somehow they get off the hook for being the problem.  Where is the outrage for businesses cheating everyone?  Why are they not going after businesses that hire illegal aliens with huge fines?  

    And the Mexican Border is literally a war zone.  The Mexican Gov has lost control of their side of the border.  It is literally not safe to go anywhere near Juarez (a huge port of entry for immigrants) and a number of other border towns.

  •  With This (0+ / 0-)

    It may also be found out that there's much more to that cop that got shot then is being reported, just sayin, and have been thinking that we'll be seeing another story emerging as to those circumstances as well.

    Something just doesn't sound right, especially that they had trouble finding him.

    "What is the difference between an al Qaida terrorist and a misguided American terrorist?" "The planes they fly!"

    by jimstaro on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:33:05 PM PDT

    •  It's pretty empty out there (0+ / 0-)

      between Casa Grande and Gila Bend.  Lots and lots of absolutely nothing but scrub vegetation once you get away from the interstate.

      The way to combat noxious ideas is with other ideas. The way to combat falsehoods is with truth. - William O. Douglas

      by PSzymeczek on Mon May 03, 2010 at 03:36:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Legalize everything (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rwgate

    No more profits means no more crime on the dealers' end, but also no more crime on the buyers' end, since prices will drop so greatly that they'll no longer need big money fast in order to get their next hit.

    You'll also destroy drugs' image. Who are you rebelling against by consuming something as legal as Children's Tylenol? Who are you trying to impress by consuming something as ordinary as crap beer?

    Tax drugs to fund mandatory rehab for people who've lost the ability to function and voluntary rehab for people who want to quit, but otherwise let people buy whatever they want and however much of it they want. Regulate to provide consistent quality to eliminate accidental overdoses. Regulate meth labs and their waste products the way you would (or should) regulate any other hazardous manufacturing process.

    We'd save billions on a failed drug war and do far more to take the fun and sexiness out of drugs than a bunch of finger-wagging Boomers and transparently phony teen shills backed up by big men with guns.

  •  Ethnic Studies also banned by AZ legislature (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    my pet rock, cybersaur, Azazello

    Of course it has little to do with the immigration problem, its pure racism. Look what is passing thru the legislature just after SB1070, a law banning the teaching of ethnic studies in schools and a law banning teachers that speak with an accent from teaching english.
    http://thinkprogress.org/...

    SB 1070 does little to address the issues with undocumented immigrants. It insights and breeds hatred, blame, division.

  •  One huge problem with profiling based on (0+ / 0-)

    attire is that shopping for clothes, shoes and leather goods is a major tourist attraction in Tijuana. When my mother lived near San Diego, she rocked shoes, a leather jacket and beautiful handbags from the shopping plazas just across the border in Tijuana. American citizens all along the border are likely to wear clothes made in Mexico.

    http://www.tijuanamexicoinsider.com/...

    ....the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. FDR 1933

    by Tailspinterry on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:48:05 PM PDT

  •  Kidnapping Capital of the USA – Phoenix, A (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sargoth, erush1345

    Not exactly a border town, kos.

    You constantly try to divorce the violence in Arizona from the immigration problems.  They are mixed and they are rampant.

    It is not just drug traffic.. as my comment says.. Phoenix Arizona is the kidnapping capital of the U.S.A.

    Phoenix, Arizona has recently received the dubious distinction of being named the kidnapping capital of the United States. Second only to Mexico City in the world in terms of rates of violent kidnappings, local officials have cautioned that Phoenix is caught in a dangerous and even deadly crime wave. Many blame the rise in violent crime on Mexico's drug cartels.

    Many of the victims of this violence are immigrants themselves.. but you act as if a community should have no authority to protect itself..  these are all just poor peaceful people looking for work.  Well, most are.. so what?  They have big problems with crime, kos.. and they are related, despite all your contortion of facts, related to illegals.

    Are "where are your papers?" laws the solution.  No.  But please stop trying to dismiss the concerns of Arizonans for their personal safety as mere racism.

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

    by Skeptical Bastard on Mon May 03, 2010 at 01:54:10 PM PDT

  •  But it's all really about vote suppression... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    Excuses for passing it aside, underlying the Arizona "Show us your papers" law is vote suppression. Brewer as Sec. of State purged tons of Hispanic voters without cause. Voters will be less likely to fight a purge if this new law goes into effect. Having legal residents and citizens handcuffed and jailed for insufficient proof of legitimacy creates an atmosphere of fear and distrust of authority. People who are citizens may know or be related to people who are not and the law makes it likely they won't want to be on any government radar. The ultimate intent is making people less likely to register and vote. The GOP is terrified of the growing and increasingly active Hispanic population and this law is their latest and most blatent attempt to suppress it.

  •  We know for a fact that the people who produced (0+ / 0-)

    this bill are determined to "rid" Arizona of "illegals" and "their culture."  Russell Pearce is close to known neo-nazis and a known hate group (FAIR) and Kris Kobach helped write the bill. The bill was practically written on behalf of known lunatic Sheriff Joe Arpaio.  These people are not well meaning.

    Robert Krentz's death was used nearly instantly for GOP propaganda purposes.  

    Whenever a crime is committed, you have to ask who benefits from it.

    There are minutemen groups or freelance angry white guys with guns all over the border and these people have murdered people already.

    http://www.tucsonweekly.com/...

  •  How about a GOP voter purge (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, Azazello

    in Arizona.  After all, Latinos tend to vote Democratic, and this law will intimidate all Latinos, not just undocumented ones.

    This idea is being put forward by Greg Palast.  He also did a lot of work on the voter purges led by Katherine Harris in Florida before the 2000 Presidential election that gave us 8 years of George Bush.  Here is a video interview with Palast on the Thom Hartmann Show.

  •  No mention of human trafficking? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    erush1345

    Approx 17,000 human beings a year are smuggled over the border as slaves - most of them as sex slaves and most of them children.  

    There's illegal (workers) and then there's criminal (drug dealers) and then there's just downright inhuman and abominable.  And yet most people are either preoccupied with drugs or with brown people invading their neighborhoods. The discussion on this issue everywhere, including the media and by politicians, is as weak as the law enforcement.  

    The Arizona law is - if you'll excuse the pun - a whitewash.

  •  "he was a kind soul who helped Immigrants" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA
    Last night as I watched the show on History about America it talked of Harriet Tubman and how the South wanted to get her and anyone else who helped Slaves to escape now with this bit of Info could the  Anti-Immigrants have set out to "get" anyone helping the Immigrants.
  •  Reality is bent (0+ / 0-)

    and broken when it comes to border issue consensus.

    But conservative ideologues were more interested in bending reality to suit their agenda, and rather than focus on the failed drug war, which cost this good Samaritan rancher his life, his tragic death was used to justify the worst xenophobic sentiments.

    As opposed to the best xenophobic sentiments I guess.  Like those at the heart of the War on uppity commie peasants Drugs itself.

    Or like the Security State context that the Democratic Party casts border issues in as a (cheap) (fascist) (dumbass) staple of Security State Dem politics.

    Methinks we're putting slightly too fine a point on the whole xenophobia thing.

    Obama: more Dem or Better Dem?

  •  Border Cop perspective (0+ / 0-)

    After reading this opinion piece and most of the comments, I have to chip in. I knew Rob Krentz, know his family, his in-laws, used to be his neighbor, this going back 35 years. I am also a law enforcement officer for a state agency, not one however involved in the investigation of his murder.I work every day on the border.  Rob was a good, honest, kind man. He was however, no fool. He didn't draw his weapon, even though he was shot from fairly close range. That tells me he didn't perceive a threat until it was too late. The details of how that all worked are unknown as of yet. The killer did go south to the border. The killer had a head start of upwards of 10-12 hours. Some damn good trackers that I also know said so, and that makes it a fact.The point is, it doesn't matter one bit whether the killer was a Mexican National, an American citizen, or a KGB agent. The problem is, let me repeat that, the problem is and has been for quite some time, the leaky-ass,don't have a clue who's coming or going border. Get it? What you people don't know or don't understand or don't grasp the importance of, is that the plain, old, Manuel Labor guys coming over are admittedly for the most part, what they appear to be. Just wanting a job, something to better their condition in life. Mixed in with them on the same trails and corridors are these drug mules, certified bad ass, kill you dead-guard the dope guys, that will stomp you in the ground like a piss ant.The porous border is not an intellectual puzzle piece, a political chess piece to be moved around according to election year political polls, it is everday, grind you down, sick to death of this shit reality. The Arizona law that was just put in place is Arizona's desperate plea for help from the Federal system that has left us here in southern AZ at wit's end. It is really pretty ironic to the natives here, both white and Mexican-American that the majority of Border Patrol, state officers, and county deputies are Mexican-American. It's kind of hard to imagine a lot of "profiling" going on.  One more thing, how come nobody is making much mention of the Az Daily Star's backtracking on the "American" suspect?

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