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I have received a medical bill of $1700.  I am unemployed, and my unemployment payments run out this month.  How am I supposed to pay this?

I contended before the HIR bill's passage, as I still contend, that if those like me are still left with crushing medical bills, in any great numbers, this will damage the Democratic Party more than simply letting the bill die would have done.

The websites for Medicare, Medicaid, Medi-cal, and Healthy Families say that as a single man without kids, and not being elderly, I am ineligible for these programs.  One responder on DKos said that single people without kids WOULD now be covered by Medicaid, but that website still reflects no such thing.  How, exactly, am I to get help paying this bill?  I can't pay it.

When I opposed the HIR bill, I heard that I "didn't care about the uninsured!" and was "spoiled" and a "crying baby!" and was a "purity troll!" over, and over, and over.  I replied that I AM one of the 30 million uninsured, thanks--though that was ALWAYS ignored in the hysteria--and I was HR'd for dissenting about the bill.

One respondent on DKos kindly informed me of the benefits of the bill, instead of telling me how I'm supposed to pay this $1700 bill.  He posted:

   KEY PROVISIONS THAT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY UNDER PATIENT PROTECTION AND AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, AS AMENDED BY THE HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION RECONCILIATION ACT

   FOR SMALL BUSINESSES
   SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS—Offers tax credits of up to 35 percent of employer premium contributions for those small businesses that choose to over coverage. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, offers credits of up to 50 percent of employer premium contributions, for up to 2 years.)

   FOR SENIORS
   BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE—Provides a $250 rebate to those Medicare beneficiaries who hit the donut hole in 2010. Beginning in January 2011, there is a 50% discount on prescription drugs in the donut hole. (Also completely closes the donut hole by 2020.)
   FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER MEDICARE—Eliminates co‐payments for preventive services and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program. Effective on January 1, 2011.
   HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a temporary re‐insurance program (until the Exchanges are available) for employer health plans providing coverage for early retirees, helping to protect coverage while reducing premiums for employers and these early retirees age 55-64. Effective on June 21, 2010.

   FOR THOSE PRIVATELY INSURED

   NO DISCRIMINATON AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE‐EXISTING CONDITIONS—Prohibits all employer plans and new plans in the individual market from denying coverage to children with pre‐existing conditions. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   NO RESCISSIONS—Bans all health plans from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   NO LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits all health plans from placing lifetime caps on coverage. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   TIGHTLY REGULATES ANNUAL LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Tightly restricts the use of annual limits by all employer plans and new plans in the individual market, to ensure access to needed care. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER NEW PLANS—Requires new private plans to cover preventive services with no co‐payments and with preventive services being exempt from deductibles. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   NEW, INDEPENDENT APPEALS PROCESS FOR NEW PLANS—Ensures consumers in new plans have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal decisions. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   MORE FOR YOUR PREMIUM DOLLAR—Requires all health plans to put more of your premiums into your care, and less into profits, CEO pay, etc. This medical loss ratio requires plans in the individual market to spend 80 percent of premiums on medical services, and plans in the large group market to spend 85 percent. Insurers that don’t meet these thresholds must provide rebates to policyholders. Effective on January 1, 2011.

   NO DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SALARY—Prohibits new employer health plans from establishing any eligibility rules for health care coverage that have the effect of discriminating in favor of higher wage employees. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   FOR THOSE UNINSURED
   IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED WITH PRE‐EXISTING CONDITIONS (INTERIM HIGH‐RISK POOL)—Provides immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre‐existing condition ‐ through a temporary high‐risk pool – until the Exchanges are up and running in 2014. Effective on July 1, 2010.

   EXTENDING COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 26TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE – Requires plans to allow young people up to their 26th birthday to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice. Effective for plan years beginning on or after September 23, 2010.

   GENERAL REFORMS

   COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for nearly doubling the number of patients served over the next 5 years. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2011.

   MORE PRIMARY CARE PRACTITIONERS—Provides new investments to increase the number of primary care practitioners, including doctors and nurses. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2011.

   HEALTH INSURANCE CONSUMER ASSISTANCE—Provides aid to states to establish offices of health insurance consumer assistance to help consumers file complaints and appeals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.

   CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG‐TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long‐term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled. Effective on January 1, 2011.

   HOLDS INSURANCE COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE FOR UNREASONABLE RATE HIKES—Creates a grant program to support states in requiring health insurance companies to submit justification for requested premium increases. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.

   MORE REFORMS THAT BEGIN IN 2014 (WHEN EXCHANGES HAVE FORMED)

   NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ADULTS WITH PRE‐EXISTING CONDITIONS BAN ON HIGHER PREMIUMS FOR WOMEN PREMIUMS BASED ON AGE CAN ONLY VARY BY A MAXIMUM OF 3‐TO‐1 RATIO CAP ON OUT‐OF‐POCKET EXPENSES for private health plans

That's all very nice.  However, I still have a bill in front of me.  It didn't go away.  How am I to pay it?  How am I to access the help that the poster talked about?  If you had a bill in front of you, what would you do to get it paid?  Practical steps, please, point me to a website form to fill out, a paper form to fax, an office in which I can wait, that will pay that $1700 for me, because I don't have it.  

Nor will I have any money with which to pay for insurance premiums, even if they're subsidized for the poor.  What, exactly, am I supposed to do?  Pretend I'm stupid.  Maybe I am stupid.  

A constant meme from the bill boosters was the sad, sighing plaint, "but you HAVE been told; you simply don't want to see..."  This was nonsense then, and it's nonsense now.

I have NOT been told, "so you've got a $1700 bill from the doctor's!  Wow.  Looks tough!  But Here's What You Do to Get the Government to Help you Pay It!"  One respondent DID have some suggestions, but--the suggestions were to work out a payment plan so that I could pay the whole $1700, $5 at a time!  Or to dispute the bill entirely!  Wait a second.  Wasn't the pretext for the bill's passage that the 30 million uninsured--again, that's me, I am one of the 30 million uninsured--would not be stuck with ruinous bills to pay, any longer?  That the government would be right there helping people pay for such bills, so they wouldn't have to shoulder it on their own?  And that this would happen soon enough so that it wouldn't look bad for us in this year's elections?

Because if the answer is, "no, there's no way that $1700 bill is getting paid by the government, not before 2014 or months and months from now or whenever," then is it, or is it not, true that I was correct in saying that this could damage us politically for November's elections?

As mentioned above, Medicare, Medicaid, Medi-cal, and Healthy Families are not offering this help; nor are any of the White House's or other government entities' websites that I've consulted.  Am I stupid?  Do I read poorly?  Well that may well be--show me how, please, exactly, and tell me what a stupid, unemployed person like me has to do, when he gets a $1700 medical bill that he can't pay, in order to get it paid.  There are FAR more than just one stupid, unemployed guy with no kids and a big medical bill out there, and unfortunately, many of them WILL vote in November.  Will you sigh at them that "sigh, you just don't want to see the truth..." and let them suffer and default on THEIR $1700 medical bills, too?  Or will you say "oh, it's simple--all you do to get it paid, even if you have no kids and aren't elderly, is X."  

Won't you please deign to tell me what Action X is?

You all told me Pass.the.damn.bill.  OK, the bill passed.  Now if you please, could you tell me?  How, EXACTLY, by taking what SPECIFIC ACTIONS, do I Pay.the.Damn.Bill?

NOTE: I will be off of the internet for a few days, so after a few hours from now, I won't be able to answer.  But thank you for any answers you have to offer.  And please forgive the sardonic tone of the diary; I know that many bill supporters are thoughtful, and may want to help.  I have, however, felt severely tried by the high-handed tone of condescension in the "you just don't want to hear the truth" stuff, the vicious attacks saying that I "don't give a s*** about the 30 million uninsured!" when I AM one of them, and other rankling responses.  I am also in a slightly sour frame of mind at the moment, because of this situation, but I hope it doesn't seem as if I'm being unfair.  I ask your forgiveness, if so.

Originally posted to Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:37 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (18+ / 0-)

    "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

    by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:37:56 PM PDT

    •  To my knowledge, (10+ / 0-)

      HIR has nothing to do with your outstanding medical debt. It did some good things, and was a good step in the right direction, but it didn't assume the obligation to pay your bill.

      Sure, you may or may not be correct in your analysis of how the bill helps or hurts us in November. Some would say that has nothing to do with whether the reform was good for the country and might add, what's the point of being in power if you don't govern.

      •  Whew--THANK you (7+ / 0-)

        Your second paragraph is an honest and fair response.  However, my point was that, then, it was a bad idea to PRETEND that the bill was going to be far better for those like me than it is.  It would have been better to have been up front and be clear "this bill will Not do This; it will, however, do That.  It leaves exactly This undone."  Instead, there was a lot of HRing and other attempts at shutting people up, even BEFORE the bill was passed.  I believe that instead of papering over things, and pretending the bill was better than it was, we should have used that time not only to point out everything that needed to be changed in it, but to pressure our representatives to do it.  Instead, to a large extent, people just tried to censor dissent.  That very censorship, that pretending that nothing is seriously wrong with the bill on balance, is what will lead to disappointment and anger among voters, if there IS something seriously wrong with it, and people like me are left out in the cold.

        As to your first paragraph, I didn't incur this bill until many weeks after the passage of the HIR bill, so it wasn't an "outstanding" debt.  If I'll eventually be covered, that's great; but at the moment, I'm not.

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:35:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  no one ever pretended anything (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Trotskyrepublican

          except you. Did you read the stuff in your block quote? It's all just as relevant now. The bill never was intended to put a pony in a little cute paddok for you to ride at will, it only did what was  said.

          You'll be covered in 2014 if you want to. Until then there are some things for the very poor and unlucky, which you obviously aren't.

          To those whose medical bills have exceeded a million this thing is a godsend, or to parents whose kids have an incurable disease  but are turning 25, just  be glad you aren't them and  go get a job.

          "Don't fall or we both go" Derek Hersey

          by ban nock on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:25:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hey, ban nock? Have you got a job, or a lead (0+ / 0-)

            for one, to offer me?  

            In the planet most of us are traveling on, there is an economic crisis going on, which makes it difficult to find work, and impossible for the MANY DKos posters who have mentioned they're on their last unemployment checks.  Thanks so much for the very USEFUL advice to go and get a job, but what exactly do you think I've been doing, putting out resume after resume, month after month, trying to do?  Let me make the answer very clear, since you don't seem to be reading very carefully: I Have Been Trying To Get A Job.  And Trying Pretty Damn Hard.

            And you people call ME ignorant?

            Did you fail to read the part of the diary where I said my unemployment runs out in a couple of weeks?  And are you aware that, at an income of 0 dollars, that pretty much DOES make me "poor"?  Can I ask why, exactly, you declared me "not poor" just now?

            If you're unable to grasp these concepts, because you're hypnotized as Frankie in the Manchurian Candidate to ignore these inconvenient facts, go ahead and keep repeating "it must be his fault.  It must be his fault.  It must be his fault.  It must be his fault."  Then there'll be no problem with the economy at all!

            "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

            by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:53:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Reforms don't kick in until 2014 (8+ / 0-)

      Come on- if you're going to oppose HIR, at east come up with some legitimate gripe. Your exact concern is in fact addressed by the Reforms. Only it doesn't take effect yet. Would you rather have help that is on the way, or no help at all?

      •  OK then--which is why I said: (5+ / 0-)

        that if help isn't coming until years from now, wasn't I correct in saying that, until then, we could expect the HIR bill to become a brickbat to be used against us, and to damage us in the November elections?

        That was only a paragraph in my diary, but I hoped someone would answer it: was I, or was I not correct, when I said that HIR's orphans, like me, could be used as propaganda weapons for the GOP in November's elections?  Because I'm an Obama voter, but a lot of people like me won't be.  Was I correct, or wasn't I, in saying that we should have been more candid about those the bill would still leave orphaned, like me, so that people wouldn't feel they'd been promised something wonderful and then disappointed?

        Yes, I'd rather have help on the way than no help at all.  If I will be helped, then I'm perfectly willing to hear that (although 2014 is awfully late for me to string out this doctor bill).  But was it, or was it not, an error for the bill's proponents to pretend that people like me didn't exist and wouldn't crop up, still not covered, still being forced to pay exorbitant bills (some far worse than mine)?

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:28:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can't take blood from a stone (3+ / 0-)

          Your priorities should be  food and shelter since your unemployment is running out (Mine is too)

          Call the Doctor's office and tell them you can't pay the bill. Let them know the situation. It's just possible there is help out there you may not be aware of.

          The woman living in my house (She'd be homeless otherwise) had her hospital bill and doctors bills paid for by the lung association.

          As for the health care bill, if it hadn't passed then  you would be in even worse shape. It stinks that there is no help right now for those who are sick and can't work. The woman I mentioned has been unable to work for a year and has had no income, only food stamps for that whole time. At least you know once it actually goes into affect, you'll be able to get medical care without staring at the huge bills you can't pay.

          "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

          by atlliberal on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:47:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You're right, HIR will be murder in the elections (0+ / 0-)

          Meanwhile, file for bankruptcy.

          -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

          by neroden on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:53:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  FYI, talk to the medical biller first: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BachFan

            I have found that most medical offices will literally offer a 50% reduction in your bill if you don't have insurance cover.  That's literally their first offer.

            I'm assuming you won't be able to pay the $850 either, though.

            -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

            by neroden on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:56:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You WILL BE eligible for Medicaid (0+ / 0-)

          As people have said time and again here: Medicaid will be available to all low income (no income in your case) people regardless of whether you have kids or not. And no asset tests. So help is on the way.

          What exactly is your gripe anyways? That Obama hasn't magically solved all your problem overnight? You think something as huge as helath care reform can happen overnight? Actually he HAS solved some of your problems already. Are you receiving extended unemployment? If so thank Obama & the democratic congress. As to health care- just sit tight and wait. Help is on the way.

          •  ... (0+ / 0-)

            My objection was twofold, or I should say, onefold, with a question, also onefold, making up the two points in the diary:

            1. Firstly, hand over my heart, when I said "this will hurt us IN NOVEMBER if there's a delay getting us the benefits," which I did specify often, I was told repeatedly that I was wrong.  I was NEVER told "yes, that could be," by any of the bill's proponents.  No-one ever admitted that to me, and MANY told me I was trolling.  Well, if it's "on the way," then I'm glad; if you're not one of the ones that ignored me saying "but what about November?  Won't it hurt us if there are still people being bankrupted?"--and let me be clear, many of the bill's proponents argued reasonably and were not among those people--then I have no gripe with you.  I only argued that we should have been candid about the fact that we might get hurt in November.  

            (As far as gripes about the bill, I'm EXTREMELY annoyed that the public option was quietly taken off the table and swept under the rug, not to mix metaphors, without ANY congressperson showing the public--70% of whom supported this--the respect to explain why, like adults to adults.  We were treated like enemies by them.  But that's not at issue in the diary.)

            1. Secondly, the question is, is there something I missed?  I understand that given the negative tone of the diary, this may have been missed.  Allow me, if I can, to try to strike a more positive tone.  I'm not here on this planet to spread negativity, so if this diary was a moment of negativity, then that's unfortunate.  Perhaps I was having a bad day, and was tired of being punched in the face with ignored resume after ignored resume, each of which tells me that I don't seem to be worth anything to anyone, at least to any employers.  (To the loved ones in my life, I'm sure it's another story, and I'm thankful for that.)  But there was an honest question, nonetheless, which was that, since people kept saying "no it won't hurt us in November!  It'll be fine!  Troll!"  I actually did think that maybe I'd missed a back door into Medicaid, that it actually WOULD be enacted in time to help us in November (and to help me, personally, now, with SOME, not all, of my bill).  Perhaps the Medicaid website just hadn't been updated yet, or they were keeping it quiet, but if I go into such and such an office and ask for such and such a form, I can get on it.  Someone here might have had such advice.

            "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

            by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:10:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  And as to unemployment (0+ / 0-)

            I have also repeatedly said on DKos that I do NOT blame President Obama for the employment situation, horrible as it is.  Nor did I blame him in the diary, either for that, or for the points at issue in the diary.  

            The only thing I was calling out was that this bill was NOT honestly represented by a large number (though perhaps not the majority) of DKos posters, nor by our Congress, when they ignored the fact that the continued presence of people newly bankrupted by medical bills will actually hurt the Party.  I think this was done to save face, but like many instances of saving face, it leads to losing face.

            "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

            by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:14:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  you can deduct the medical expense (0+ / 0-)

      on your taxes.

      Die with your boots on. Gonna try? Well stick around. Gonna cry? Just move along. The truth of all predictions is always in your hands. - Iron Maiden

      by Cedwyn on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:19:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  well said. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    El Zmuenga, bmcphail, Villagejonesy

    i just received a premium increase notice for my crappy high deductible insurance as well.

    change you can believe in.

    "In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress." -John Adams

    by rcnewton on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:45:07 PM PDT

    •  Not in affect. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      housesella

      It hasn't taken affect yet...
      So wait for the change its coming.

      We have watied for more then 100 years for some kind of health security... we have someone that was willing to be a one term president to get it, and you whine.

      If you have a premium increase, your insurance is upping it ahead of the reform. So the beef you have is with your insurance company not with the Healthcare reform which has not yet taken affect.

  •  Why is it stupid (7+ / 0-)

    advise to negotiate small payments with the provider.  They provided a service, you owe the bill, talk to them.  I manage a dental office, I have a lot of people without insurance run up a 1500 bill.  I work with them.  As long as they make a monthly payment without me having to chase them I will keep the account in office.  For you to just bitch about somebody not paying it for you does nothing to solve the problem.

    "My brothers keeper"

    by Reetz on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:46:56 PM PDT

  •  You are precisely who Eve and I (5+ / 0-)

    are trying to help.

    Join Our Countdown To Health Reform! Project I work with Progressive Congress Action Fund, a 501(c)4.

    by slinkerwink on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:48:05 PM PDT

  •  I'm confused (7+ / 0-)

    how old is this bill? And what is it you want, someone to pay it for you? Are you currently insured under COBRA?

    In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

    by jsfox on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:48:10 PM PDT

    •  He's unemployed (4+ / 0-)

      and can't afford to pay this medical bill. His unemployment benefits are running out this month.

      Join Our Countdown To Health Reform! Project I work with Progressive Congress Action Fund, a 501(c)4.

      by slinkerwink on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:49:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Slink please let (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, MKSinSA, eXtina, calchala

        the diarist answer. I realize he is unemployed and his unemployment is running out. All the 99ers are in the same boat.

        In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

        by jsfox on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:53:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks, slinkerwink (5+ / 0-)

        I do appreciate what you and eve have done, and I know that you've faced an awful lot of flames because of it.  Thanks for explaining on my behalf, it's totally fine that you're doing so (I have to go pretty soon, so won't be able to respond much until Thursday as it is, so feel free to answer people's questions as much as you can).

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:47:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Brand new. No, I'm not insured. (4+ / 0-)

      I just incurred these charges, after the passage of the HIR bill.  No, I'm not insured under COBRA or anything else.

      What I want is, since I said repeatedly:

      1. this bill will still leave people uninsured, as I am, to be hit with ruinous medical bills, and 2) that will hurt us in November, mostly because we gave out false advertising as to the amount of good the bill would do.

      and was responded to with:

      1. No it won't leave people without coverage!  Quit lying!, as one DKos poster said to me,

      I want to be shown: where is this "coverage" I was promised?  Where is the relief for this ruinous (at this time, for me) medical bill?  All I've been offered, ALL I've been offered, yet, has been "well negotiate it down with your service provider."  

      That is not what the HIR bill proponents promised me.  What I want is either to be shown how to get this bill paid, or for people to confess, as a few have already done here, that it IS possible that orphans like me could be propaganda weapons against our Democratic Party in November.  Be honest about it.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:45:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What state? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

        by jsfox on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:01:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It seems pretty well known that (0+ / 0-)

        the bulk of the benefits don't come for several years. That point was made again and again and again throughout the debate. I would find it rather surprising that this isn't general knowledge at this point among people on both sides of the debate. I really don't see where the Democrats misrepresented anything here!

        That said, I hope you find a solution to this difficulty and are working again soon!

        That is not what the HIR bill proponents promised me.  What I want is either to be shown how to get this bill paid, or for people to confess, as a few have already done here, that it IS possible that orphans like me could be propaganda weapons against our Democratic Party in November.  Be honest about it.

        •  Thank you scotths (0+ / 0-)

          It is CERTAINLY true, mentioned elsewhere in the thread, but let me repeat it, that MANY thoughtful posters did not misrepresent the bill in any way, though they were pro-bill.  Nor did they even need to acknowledge the negative aspects to it; I repeatedly praised Femlaw, though she mainly discussed only the positive aspects to it, for taking the high road in her discourses.  

          I ONLY was making the point that, if it took years to manifest its good points, then we should be candid about that, or it would be used against us this November; and I WAS screamed at by many, many bill supporters for saying so.

          But this in no way is meant to suggest that ALL or even most of the bill supporters did so.  Those who did, really rankled me, but thank you for offering me the opportunity to make clear that I'm sure most people were candid about the bill.

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:58:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And thanks for the positive wishes (0+ / 0-)

          It's nice to be offered the benefit of the doubt as to my employment situation, though you disagreed with me about the other things.

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:58:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  This was NEVER about (15+ / 0-)

    "free health care".  Even single payer requires payment.  People pay in Canada, at the doctor, and through their taxes.  The income expansions to Medicaid are not immediate.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:49:38 PM PDT

    •  However weren't there supposed to be billions (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden, Jyrinx, Villagejonesy

      infused into new Community Health care centers? Courtesy of Bernie Sanders? That are supposed to do just that, provide health care for those who can't pay or can pay only very little?

    •  taxes, yes (0+ / 0-)

      At the doctor, no.

      I get "suaviter in modo", Mr President. May we now have some "fortiter in re"?

      by tapu dali on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:08:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I never said "free," did I? (4+ / 0-)

      What I said was that I was ruthlessly flamed and HR'd for pointing out that people like me, the uninsured, could still be hit with ruinous medical bills.  Instead of denying it, calling me a liar for saying it, papering it over and painting a smiley face on it, censoring and HR'ing people, people should have been honest and said "yes, people like you will be hit with ruinous medical bills."  They lied, not I, and this will hurt us in November, just like I said.

      And if they weren't lying, then I need to know how my bill will be made less ruinous.  I never said "free."  I said what about what the bill's supporters said, when they told me people weren't going to get ruined by steep medical bills anymore?  If that support is there for me, then tell me how to get it.  No-one can; there is no such support.  Be honest, then, and admit that I was right in what I said.  Easy.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:52:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  taxes... (0+ / 0-)

      "free health care".  Even single payer requires payment.  People pay in Canada, at the doctor, and through their taxes.  The income expansions to Medicaid are not immediate.

      The nice thing about paying through taxes is that one gets an automatic break if one is unemployed. Too bad we can't have that aspect of a system here even if it were simply fully subsidizing a plan on the exchange for those who are temporarily unemployed.

      The current plan is an improvement even if it doesn't help some people, and I agree that it never promised benefits to people in the diarists situation. The Democrats were pretty clear about the bulk of the benefits not taking effect for years!

      I wish it were otherwise and the benefits took effect sooner, but I don't think they misrepresented anything...

  •  I don't recall a ton of people saying this (10+ / 0-)

    bill was the best thing since sliced bread.  Most of us said it wasn't all that.  Most of us who were fighting for single payer and then for the public option and then for this watered-down bill said pass it in the end because that's what the timing dictated.  That's politics.  It's crappy or it's really really crappy. We got what we could get, no thanks to a lot of very conservative assholes sitting in seats of power.  Now many of us have moved on to do state single payer work.

    I feel for you.  You deserve real health care reform.  It's insane that you don't have it. But for the love of Mike, why are you blaming us for your doctor's bill?

    •  Many spoke of it as you did, but many didn't. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, neroden, bmcphail

      And I'm NOT "blaming you for [my] doctor's bill."  I'm blaming those who called me a liar, when I said "this bill will still leave uninsured people like me to face ruinous medical bills, and this will look bad for the Democrats in November."  I'm not imagining that; I was told "you're a liar!  The 30 million uninsured will now be covered, and their bills paid!"

      That's what I was told.  If you weren't one of the ones who said it, then well and good; go your way in peace.  But if you were, then please tell me: how come I'm being left to pay 100% of this bill, when I was repeatedly called "liar" for claiming that just this sort of thing would still happen?  And, if there IS the support to help me to pay it, which I was REPEATEDLY told there would be, then where on earth is this "help"?

      Crickets.  So far, at least.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:56:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Please post a link... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MKSinSA

        I'm not imagining that; I was told "you're a liar!  The 30 million uninsured will now be covered, and their bills paid!"

        ...where people told you there was going to be free health care.

        tia

        The last thing I remember, I was running for the door...

        by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:05:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Excuse me for my last post (0+ / 0-)

          No, that's correct--I can see how you got the impression FROM MY LAST POST TO YOU (though I did wonder how people got this from the diary) that I thought that "all my bills would be paid."

          No, people did not promise FREE health care, and I'm sorry that my last post seemed to imply that.  I can only say that it was written on the fly.  However, I did not intend to say any such thing with my diary itself, and what I was saying was this:

          1. I said repeatedly, during the campaign for the bill's passage, that the bill would still leave thousands ruined by medical bills that would be left COMPLETELY in their hands to pay, and that these people's continued presence would hurt us in the coming elections, if we pretended this would no longer happen;
          1. I was SCREAMED at as a "troll" and a "liar" for saying this;
          1. Now I have a bill that, while relatively very modest (the nightmare scenario I mentioned during March was a 100,000 or 200,000 medical bill, which not only happens in real life, but there's a woman on this thread with such a bill, screaming that I should get charity for it instead of expecting help);
          1. Therefore, if the people in point 2) were being truthful, I was actually sort of half-expecting that someone knew a back way through the Medicaid site or something, that might allow me to be covered; I only half-expected this, and thus, the tone of the diary was one of annoyance at the people who'd screamed at me about it, but I did think it might be possible that someone would say "hey, um--we WERE telling the truth; Medicaid doesn't advertise it, it's true, and you have to go to this particular 800 number to get it, but you are actually covered now."  This is why I said "maybe I'm stupid."  Because I might, in fact, have been wrong to assume that we will be hurt by this in November.  If there were help out there for me, then I'd be the first one to say "looks like I was wrong, and let me help you spread the word."

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:36:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And sorry to have said "screaming" about (0+ / 0-)

            the lady with the 100,000 + dollar medical bill, below.  She seems a nice person after all, although we were both in a bad mood when we started posting to one another.

            "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

            by Villagejonesy on Fri May 21, 2010 at 01:22:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Typo: "my last post to Bindle," not to you NT (0+ / 0-)

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:36:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  i have a bill in front of me. several in fact. (4+ / 0-)

    though my husband does have a job and we did have 'insurance' at the time.  i had a baby last september and my daughter had NO insurance at all.  so we had a bill for $1500 for her and $200 for me just for the hospital.  then there is the $289 for the anesthesiologist and then there are the doctor's bills..  my husband is working though and took a loan out of the 401k to pay for it.  we also called the hospital and found out that we could get financial assistance for abby's bill because she was uninsured.  and by the time we could get her insured after her social security card and birth certificate got there they wouldnt go back that far.  so the hospital wiped out her $1500.  but we still have a grand for the doctor.  how can they charge us $100 for a visit when the insurance we have now pays $54!!  we now have family health plus because bob's works current offering is even worse than the CIGNA we had last year!!  but we are just under the cap and any overtime or raise would screw us.  

    I would suggest trying to make payment arrangements with the doctor.  Perhaps you could try to get the amount owed reduced as well.  try to get an itemized bill and try to get some of it taken off.  i know that we looked at the bills for the hospital and found that both i and abby were separately being billed for the same room, for example.  i don't know what else you could possibly do.  it is tough for a single person to get any help which is bullshit.  especially when you are unemployed!!!  

    HOPE!!! it does a body good.

    by ejpoeta on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:51:59 PM PDT

  •  Sorry Jonesy. As I recall, the overwhelming (8+ / 0-)

    consensus as to why the HIR bill should have been passed was because it was a step in the right direction that could be improved over time.   So your best bet is to send the bill back and tell them Congress is working on your case.  

    "Peace cannot be achieved by force. It can only be achieved by understanding" Albert Einstein

    by BigAlinWashSt on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:54:03 PM PDT

  •  Baby...bathwater... (7+ / 0-)

    learn the difference. Just how would have ruining the HCR bill have helped with your bill? Killing the bill must have been the way for your debt to go away, since you're so hopping mad that it passed. Which provision was it that caused you to have to pay up?

    "They paved paradise, and put in a parking lot."
    "...Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"
    - Joni Mitchell

    by davewill on Tue May 18, 2010 at 03:54:23 PM PDT

    •  Again--yet again--my objection was, and is (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, neroden, bmcphail

      that people kept saying I was a "liar" when I said that situations like mine would still occur, and many of them, which would cause people to be more disappointed in the bill than they would if people said "yes, that's true," instead of "liar!  You don't care a s*** about the uninsured!", as people said repeatedly to me.

      My objection is that people CLAIMED that the bill would make my "debt go away."  And, that now that I've been proved correct that no, of course it wouldn't, and there would be thousands of people still ruined every year, and that that could cause the Democrats to lose elections, nobody's willing to be honest and say "yes, you were correct about that."

      On the other hand, if those people WERE correct, then I need to know where on earth is the help I was promised--no, YELLED at, that I was a "purity troll!" and a "liar!" for not recognizing as being present in this bill.  Where is it?  If I'm such a "liar."

      Otherwise, I think I was correct: the HIR bill will still leave many thousands each year to pay ruinous medical bills.  This will be used against us in the November elections.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:02:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bull. (0+ / 0-)

        I don't believe any serious people said your medical bills would just magically be paid. Depending on your circumstance, you may get help buying insurance at some point, but you will still have medical bills.

        Someone who,

        contended before the HIR bill's passage, as I still contend, that if those like me are still left with crushing medical bills, in any great numbers, this will damage the Democratic Party more than simply letting the bill die would have done.

        and refused to acknowledge the good parts of the bill probably would have been labeled a troll.

        The fact remains, that waiting for perfection would mean waiting forever, for all of the uninsured. You would have thrown them all under the bus just because you didn't get immediate help.

        "They paved paradise, and put in a parking lot."
        "...Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone?"
        - Joni Mitchell

        by davewill on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:30:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nor did I say any such thing (0+ / 0-)

          You can pretend I did and say "bull" to something I never said, but the fact is that I pretty clearly said:

          1. That enough people would fail to be helped by this bill that such people's problems would hurt us in the elections to come, and that
          1. I was a "troll" and a "liar" for claiming such a thing.

          I never once said what you and at least two or three others here are pretending that I said, which is that I expected all my bills to be "magically paid."  I DID say that I was told repeatedly that there would be SOME substantial help with them, for me and for enough of the 30 million other uninsured, that there would not be thousands left badly hurt financially, if not ruined, by medical bills.

          I think that was clear in the diary and in the posts I made during the campaign for the bill's passage, but if not, that's about as clear as I can make it.

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:27:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  You're right, it's an HIR bill (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil, MKSinSA, Villagejonesy

    Health Insurance Reform bill. There was nothing in there that was ever supposed to lower medical bills. It reformed insurance. Even for someone with insurance, this would be under the deductible under any plan, so it really doesn't apply.

  •  Why aren't you eligible for medicaid? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    You should be....

    •  Ah Medicaid- (9+ / 0-)

      or here in CA it's called Medi-Cal. He sounds like he's in my situation.

      You cannot get Medicaid/Medi-Cal, unless you are:

      1. Single mom/dad with dependent children.
      1. Disabled(i.e blind, paralyzed etc)
      1. Have zero income (if you are on unemployment you are ineligible, they must think that unemployment check can cover thousands in medical bills and pay rent and buy food).
      1. Cannot have more than $1,000 in a checking or savings account at any given time (as rent and utilities here in CA can cost well over $1,000, I guess you're supposed to keep a few hundred cash in your pocket to fool them).
      1. Cannot own a car worth more than $1,000 (around that figure I can't recall exactly and I shredded the rejection letter they sent me).

      Essentially, there is no safety net for the working poor with no children.   If you don't pop out a few kids you're screwed.  

      I had cancer, I can't get insurance, if my cancer comes back? The Plan: Walk It Off!

      by ArtemisBSG on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:32:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The biggest holdup for Medicaid (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, neroden, Villagejonesy

      for most people is that there's a lookback period. This was designed to help reduce fraud by preventing people from hiding assets in order to be eligible. Basically, people were expected to hold onto enough savings to cover up to 5 years of health insurance. Granted, that's near impossible these days, but then, that's why we needed reform...

      Leave it to Republicans to set the house on fire and then rant that the fire department is socialist.

      by johnsonwax on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:43:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Artemis is correct (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, Marie, neroden, bmcphail

      I'm a single guy with no kids, and not elderly, and don't fit in to the other qualifications.  Some say this is supposed to have changed, but the Medicaid site says otherwise.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:03:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK, seriously: (0+ / 0-)

        Consider moving to a state with expanded Medicaid benefits (and obviously with public housing).  You are totally out of luck in California.  If I'm not mistaken, certain states would cover you.  Look up the NY rules, etc., while you still have Internet access.

        -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

        by neroden on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:01:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not kidding about moving, either. (0+ / 0-)

          Illinois and NY have better safety nets than the decrepit disaster which is post-Prop-13 California.  You might have a better chance if you could make it to one of them.

          -5.63, -8.10. Learn about Duverger's Law.

          by neroden on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:07:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks neroden (0+ / 0-)

            I'm too late to recommend your posts, but consider them recommended.  I hope not to leave all my family and friends, but... well, put it this way, if a job came up in one of those states, I'm sure I'd hop on it.  Thanks for the word.

            "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

            by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:38:27 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Don't blame the majority of the Democrats.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, Villagejonesy

    they wanted a full public option.  You can blame the Republicans and the Blue-Dog Dems who stood in the way and watered down the bill much of which doesn't even go into effect until 2014.  You don't say what the bill was for - are you permenently disabled?   I know finding jobs is tough in this economy.  When I didn't have a job, I've mowed lawns, cleaned up people's houses/yards, worked at a horse farm - anything to get some needed cash.  I don't mean to say I'm not sympathetic.  I had surgery a few years ago and my bills came to over $80,000.  The hospital will work with you to set up a payment plan.  In the meantime, keep doing research to find a program that may help.

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

    by moose67 on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:05:50 PM PDT

    •  All reasonably put. (0+ / 0-)

      Your suggestions don't seem unsympathetic at all--they seem well-directed and on target.

      Yes, I don't blame most Democrats, not at all.  If I'd been in a better mood upon writing the diary, I'd have remembered to accentuate the positive.  There were plenty of Democrats, including here on DKos, who didn't just scream STFU! whenever dissenting voices were heard, or cheerlead, or enable the obstruction of the public option.  FAR too many did, but I would grant it if you said that most didn't.

      No, I'm not disabled at all--in fact, the bill was for a physical, that was required as part of the hiring process for the only job interview I've had yet this year (I'm sorry that I can't be more specific than that, but seeing how vicious a few of these creeps have been on here, you never know).  They offer a bit of money to defray the cost of it, but only a fraction, as it turns out; and when I'd called my hospital's estimate line to find out how much it'd be, they claimed that they couldn't give any estimate, since there'd be bloodwork and other things they wouldn't know until the day I came in; also, even on the day I came in, the people I saw couldn't tell me how much the visit was costing me (I did ask as I went along).  Most folks I'd talked to (outside of the hospital, that is, just friends) had told me "it should be around $500 or $600 at most, not more than that."

      It's not life-ending; I've been very fortunate in my life, and I'm sure I'll find work again.  It's just been maddening that it's taken so long, when I'd worked hard and conscientiously all my life.  But after sending resume after resume, time after time, walking into Starbucks locations around my city (after having been entrusted to handle bills of a million dollars a month, though I never received those millions for myself), and being told "we're fully staffed" time after time, it's a bit wearying after so long at it.  Then to have these idiotic dumbasses announce that they've decided that I'm "ignorant" (after receiving three college degrees, with awards attendant) and "lazy" (though for the first 15 years of my working life I was NEVER once without a job, but just went from one success to another, with boss after boss VERY happy to give me glowing references), and these people just deciding that, because they need it to be my own fault somehow, and can't face that yes, we're actually in a Great Recession, and no, it's not "your own fault" you can't get a job in one this severe.  Some people just can't handle facing that, but BOY, has it been hard to stomach.  I'll really be fine, I was just in a sour mood when I wrote this diary, and idiots like that didn't help.  But you are helpful.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Fri May 21, 2010 at 01:41:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Note: "the hiring process" (0+ / 0-)

        should really read "the interview process," as the job is by no means a lock.  It looks hopeful, but there are many steps and it is by no means certain until all those steps are taken.

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Fri May 21, 2010 at 01:42:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sorry you're having so many problems. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cassandra77, ruascott, Villagejonesy

    However life is hard , you'd better get used to it. I'm also sorry I can't be much more help than that.

    "Jesus Christ was black, ronald reagan was the devil, and the government is lying about 9/11." Huey Freeman

    by cee4 on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:07:01 PM PDT

  •  Why don't you stop wasting time (2+ / 2-)
    Recommended by:
    ctami, MKSinSA
    Hidden by:
    Pris from LA, CuriousBoston

    posting on here, asking other people to take care of your problems. If you are too ignorant to understand how health insurance works, and too lazy to learn, than its no wonder you are unemployed.

    You aren't disabled. You are not a child. You're out of a job. Tough luck, there are a lot in your same boat, and they aren't sitting around asking for handouts.

    You were provided a medical service. Its your responsibilty to pay what you owe. If you can't pay, then call the doctor's office and negotiate. They will set you up on a 0% interest payment plan.

    Then get to work finding some damn work, and quit complaining that someone isn't paying your bills.

    •  Pull UP yer own bootstraps! (4+ / 0-)

      Gee, where have I heard that before.....

      Ah. Right.

      A Creative Revolution- - To revolt within society in order to make it a little better- Krishnamurti

      by pale cold on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:41:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  did you actually read the diary? (4+ / 0-)

      because if you did your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

    •  In fact, creep, I've spent most of the day (6+ / 0-)

      hunting down employment, thanks.  And, if you'd learn to read, I say clearly that I've done a TON of research that has led me to the same conclusion: the help I was promised with this bill is not coming to me.  I was lied to.  I said clearly that I've done TONS of research trying to find this "help" that was supposedly coming, and I'm saying it's not there.  I'm not "too lazy to learn" or "too ignorant," either.  I have three fucking college degrees.

      If you want to say "no-one should ever have help paying a bill through a social service," that's your opinion.  I don't share it.  If you get a bill for $200,000 next month, and you don't have $200,000, will you open up your big mouth and say the same thing?  No.  You'll shut it, and wish you'd kept it shut, unless you're LUCKY enough to have a job.  Scrooge.

      You creep.  I've worked for YEARS, hard work, and conscientiously.  I have people I worked with 10 YEARS ago who are happy to recommend me for a job--if there were one.  Then stupidass libertarians come along and claim that I'm lazy and ignorant.

      Get some damn work? What do you think I've been working at doing for the last x years?  Are you offering me a job?  Do you know where to get one, where 2000 other people don't also want to get that same job?  Then Shut Up.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:09:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you are quite wrong (0+ / 0-)

        Nobody told you that your bills were going to go away.  Unless you can prove that by quoting links that say "your bills are going to go away" - and show where it was in the health care bill or rallies held by Obama and Sibelius - NOBODY'S bills are going to go away.  What WILL happen as a result of healthcare reform, and what already happened under ARRA is that those who were rendered unemployed during the recession would get a refund of up to 65% of their premiums under COBRA.

        If you WERE employed and collecting unemployment between September 2008 and March 2010 then you qualify for the ARRA COBRA premium relief.

        If you didn't buy COBRA insurance and use the ARRA premium relief then you did not opt into the one relief plan in the Stimulus bill that could have served you and kept you from having a $1700 bill.

        We still have a private insurance system in the USA.  That means if you don't buy insurance, YOU DONT GET INSURED.  And if you had insurance before you were laid off and didn't get COBRA under ARRA then you're ignorant.

        DailyKos: the "Free Ice Cream for Everybody" crowd!

        by louisev on Tue May 18, 2010 at 08:41:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nor did _I_ say that (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't say anything either about "expecting my bills to go away" or about people denying that.

          What I said was that I said repeatedly that "this bill will still leave thousands uninsured and going broke because of medical bills, and this will hurt us in the elections to come," and that therefore, we should be candid about this upfront instead of pretending otherwise.  I never said anything at all about expecting people to pay my bills for me, or that I wouldn't be expected to pay a reasonable amount.  But I was certainly told that there would be SOME financial help, as people replied--no, SCREAMED, in operatic hysteria--that I was completely wrong and a troll, and that no, no-one would be hit with medical bills that they'd be unable to cover, enough such people to hurt us in the elections.  

          I thought that was clear in the diary, but hopefully it's clear now.

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:22:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  And no, YOU'RE quite wrong (0+ / 0-)

          When you say that "if you had insurance before you got laid off and didn't get COBRA under ARRA then you're ignorant."  I was someone who judged that food was more important than health insurance, and that I had money for one and not the other.

          But clearly, you need it to be My Fault.  It Must Be My Fault.  If something bad happens, It Must Be My Fault.  Don't let me interrupt your mantra, then.

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 06:58:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You will meet someone just like yourself one day (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden, esquimaux, KenBee, Pris from LA, FeDhu

      when you need help.  Remember this.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:26:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here, have a donut... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      neroden, esquimaux, KenBee

      ...for your unhelpful, snide comment.

      The next OneCare Happy Hour will be TBA
      "How's that 'Drill baby drill-y' thing workin' out for ya?" -- me

      by Pris from LA on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:46:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Appreciate that (0+ / 0-)

        Thanks Pris,

        I've actually never given out a donut in all my time here (though that has only been at most five or six months), because I prefer to let people say what they will, unless it's REALLY nothing but trolling or spamming in the "check out my friend's naked website!" vein.  But this person came awfully close, even for my very liberal and tolerant tastes.

        I really want to ask these people sometimes: you know that psychologists say that losing a job, to say nothing of chronic unemployment, is one of the biggest life stressors one can undergo, though it's perhaps less challenging than the death of a loved one (and if anyone DOESN'T know that, then they've got a lot of nerve calling anyone ELSE ignorant); and you know that it's stressful enough for many people that relatively large numbers of suicides cite it as the reason, right (though, thank God, I'm not going to be one of them)?

        So, given that: would you go to the welfare office, and yell at someone that they're obviously "lazy and ignorant!" when they mention that they're facing a tough time paying hospital bills, being unemployed?  Pick the head of a family, who's stressed about feeding her child, and hoping to God the child doesn't get sick; or a guy who's worried sick that the woman with him is about to leave him, since he's been out of work for so long.  Would they feel good about doing so, or badly?  If badly, then isn't it dishonest, not to mention pretty weak and cowardly, to do it from here, when you don't have the nerve to go and yell that to a welfare recipient's face?  And if they caused a fight that broke up the welfare recipient's marriage once and for all, or finally caused that despairing person to say "she's right, it's all my fault," and end their lives, would they really feel good about the effect they had on the world?  What on earth do these people stand for, I wonder?

        "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

        by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:23:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Do As I Do (5+ / 0-)

    Don't pay.  Just don't.  That's not fair to the provider, but that's life.  They can't put you in jail, or take away your car.  

    Tell the doctor's money person you'll pay when you can.  State the reason why it's not possible right now.  

    Best advice I have . . . but I sure do have a lot of collection agencies clogging my answering machine.

    Best of luck with the job situation.

    •  And I wish you the best as well (0+ / 0-)

      I'm really going to be all right.  I'm sure I don't have it as badly as you do, or as badly as other people do, including the mom below who was angry with my diary.  I wish that you should prosper, and that it should happen very soon.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:29:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've got a lot of credit card bills (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    testvet6778, MKSinSA, Reetz, ruascott

    Congress passed credit card reform. Why aren't my bills being paid by somebody?

    "Sardonic tone" is an understatement. "Whiny tone" is more like it.

    Somewhere a senator sits behind a big wooden desk...he took his money just like all the rest- Neil Young

    by ctami on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:14:15 PM PDT

  •  Come on over, we can commisserate together (6+ / 0-)

    'cause I sure understand where you are coming from.

    I'm 62, uninsured (and basically unemployed) since 2007.  I was sooooo excited about help for "early retirees" until I read what that said.  Oh, well, I like stuggling to stay healthy and begging for my meds, right?  It builds character, doesn't it?  

    I don't have any outstanding bills, but I am insulin dependent and wonder how I am going to do it each month ... it costs me about $300 a month if I am real, real good and take less than the doctor thinks I should take.  Right now, I have re-applied for the insulin charity program.  But, it is not a sure bet and they like to change the rules in the middle of things without informing anyone. Fun and games.

    About your bills ... it depends to whom you owe the money.  Is it to your doctors?  They might give you a break ... but they do need some money. (My doc gives me a break ... I think it is about a 30% discount and he gives me lots of free samples).  Is it to a hospital or clinic?  They have charity programs and can forgive some or all of your debt (depending on things).  Is it for alternative medicine?  Out of luck there, unfortunately.

    Good luck and remember that you are not alone out there in the jungle of the uninsured and dirt poor ... the wimpering you hear might just be me, and I assure that I am friendly unless you want money from me (then I would rather that you did not find me).

    Good luck.

    "Women are like angels. And when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick. We're flexible like that." ~ Anonymous

    by CorinaR on Tue May 18, 2010 at 04:44:05 PM PDT

    •  Thanks CorinaR (0+ / 0-)

      It is to a hospital.  They do have a charity program, though I was trying to see whether I could get on Medicaid or one of the other programs before I went to that.  But I'm sure that will be possible.  I will be fine, I don't mean to be whining here.

      I hope the best for you, as for all the rest here who've been so cruelly treated by this recession.  I can't deny that I'm just feeling a bit irked by it--it's a chronic sort of nagging problem, not an acute one, being without work and continuing to search for it.  I haven't been hit by it like a truck, as others around here have, but I guess it just finally got to me with that one stupid bill.  I'll be all right.  I mentioned it only in order to get advice, and in case perhaps there was a way for me to get on Medicaid that people here knew and that I didn't.  I try not to mention this sort of thing unless some real practical help can be gained by it.

      Be well, and stay with us.  Hang in there.  Take care, VJ

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 10:33:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The thing that sucks about a lot of government (3+ / 0-)

    aid programs is that it never seems to apply to you.

  •  No I am not going to allow this to pass (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    testvet6778, Ewellian, MKSinSA

    I have been quiet at the negativity around here lately, but this one I can't pass. This diary rubbed me the wrong way so I am grumpy.

    1. HCR was never retro-active this is a 1700 dollar bill that you got in the past not the future. HCR was never pushed that way.
    1. 1700? I have 160,000 so far. You get off you butt and apply for charity. That is it. You get up and call that doctors group and ask for charity papers, fill them out, send proof of income, and send a copy of your taxes just like the rest of us. You go along everyday and bicker with them just like the rest of us. It is time consuming and irate people at you all the time.

    I am sorry that you thought there was some retro-active miracle being sent your way but you know what, at least in the future there will be more than there f'ing is now.

    I am sorry from the grumps but the negativity is driving me insane. Off to fight my own battles.

    I don't care what you do in your beds, just keep your hand out of my pocket.

    by the mom in the middle on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:03:10 PM PDT

    •  Not retroactive: the bill is new (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, bmcphail

      for services I got only a few weeks ago.  So I'm afraid your anger about that piece, at least, is incorrectly aimed.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:11:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually it is right on the money (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MKSinSA, Reetz

        because you still don't get the point do you? You know that it was to be phased in, if you didn't you didn't take time to read. Also the point is you get off your butt and apply for charity before you start slinging crap at people who actually are grateful that something is on its way. In a perfect world universal coverage would be here 100 years ago. But it isn't perfect. Your rant pi**es on people who fought and fought to get something.

        I don't care what you do in your beds, just keep your hand out of my pocket.

        by the mom in the middle on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:22:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As I told you, if YOU'D read carefully (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slinkerwink, neroden, FeDhu

          I am the one who got stuff flung at him, for saying that I would be left in the situation that I'm left in.  I was called a liar.  I was not a liar.  I WAS left in this situation, when people claimed that "no, of course there won't be people out in the cold, and we won't suffer come November!"

          "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

          by Villagejonesy on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:25:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I never called you a liar (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            testvet6778

            I believe you have the bill. But you have to understand there is no magic wand. Seems that the world wants one. Even if Universal was passed, it still would take time to convert over. I know the money is hard. I should know I owe what would get me a half way decent house around here. But screaming that it isn't happening now isn't solving anything, because things as big as this can't happen immediately.

            I don't care what you do in your beds, just keep your hand out of my pocket.

            by the mom in the middle on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:41:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I wish the best for you (0+ / 0-)

              I know that I mentioned in the diary that I was feeling a little out of sorts because of the punch in the face.  Also, although as mentioned, this is nothing I blame the Obama administration or my congressperson for, it has gotten a bit hard putting out resume after resume for so long, after working solidly for so many years (with great references to show for it), only to feel that the world has no further use for me any longer.  And then to have it topped off by people (not you, but others) screaming at you that "you're lazy and ignorant and it must be your fault! So pull a job out of your own rear end and hire yourself for it!", because they can't stand to admit that things are just difficult right now.

              Maybe I shouldn't have posted the negative or annoyed parts of the diary.  As far as asking for advice, I still was actually, seriously half-hoping that I'd missed something on the sites, and that maybe someone had a back way that I should take, and that maybe Medicaid WAS open to me, but just not advertising it at the moment.  People can be good with advice like that, so I really was sort of hoping maybe something like that was going on.

              I understand that your own burden is much heavier than mine, and I am blessed in a million ways.  I hope the best for you.  Be well.

              "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

              by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 05:43:53 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  you hit my thought exactly! (0+ / 0-)

      if you already had a $1700 medical bill before passage, HIR wasn't going to help you. I must say that seems a little head-in-the-sandish to me.

      "My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total...I have finally been included in we, the people." --Barbara Jordan

      by MsDrema on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:43:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You'd be a lot more credible if you actually (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA

    provided some of the comments you claim to have recieved.  Without such proof, I can only conclude you misunderstood the bill and got upset when people tried to correct your misunderstanding.

    And I firmly believe you are dead wrong about no bill hurting us less than this bill in November.

    Freedom of speech does not mean the freedom to lie without consequence; unless, apparently if you're a right wing talk-radio host.

    by Whimsical on Tue May 18, 2010 at 05:49:14 PM PDT

  •  Aside from the fact (0+ / 0-)

    you apparently never actually read the bill and, to put the most favorable spin on it, misconstrued what people who were fighting for its passage were saying about it...

    how, exactly, would your current situation be different had the bill not passed?

    Hair On Fire is the new black!

    by arielle on Tue May 18, 2010 at 06:44:22 PM PDT

    •  I did read the bill, thanks (0+ / 0-)

      although that's not the most offensive untrue conclusion to which some of those reading this have leapt, so we'll leave that alone.

      And your question shows that you've completely misunderstood the diary.  Where, in all the diary or my comments, did I say or even imply that the point in any of this was that I wanted the bill not to pass?  I had thought that the point was pretty clear, but here it is again, if not:

      1. I had said that thousands would still be uninsured, lacking coverage, and wouldn't have their treatments paid for, after the bill had passed.  I had said that if such people were driven to bankruptcy still, then this would hurt us in the upcoming elections.  People SCREAMED at me with uvulas flying and tongues lolling in an operatic fury, like the titplate singer in What's New Pussycat, braying that I was a troll and was wrong.

      2a) Therefore, if they were wrong, the point of the diary is for them to say "yes, we were wrong, we misunderstood the bill; it won't prevent such things until 2014, and maybe next time we should be honest about it instead of hurting our party by losing face in trying to save face."  Or,
      2b) If they WEREN'T wrong, and if I failed to see something (which is possible, and which I clearly though sarcastically stated in the diary), and I AM covered by Medicaid but maybe the website hasn't been updated, then please tell me how to obtain this help.  Hence, "please tell me what is Action X," what action should I be taking to get this help?

      Plainly, the point in this diary is not to drive home "the bill shouldn't have passed!"  It's to say "now that it has passed, is there help for me?  If not, then will those who screamed 'this will not hurt us in November!' come clean about it, so that we don't make any more mistakes in framing such an issue to the public?  Or will we keep trying to sweep things under the carpet, as a matter of strategy?  If so, I think that's wrong."

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:34:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And, again (0+ / 0-)

      Though this diary was addressing those who, in my opinion, were the ones who misrepresented the bill on the pro side, I wish to be clear in saying that this was by no means all of the bill's supporters.  I have had only good things to say about some of the bill's supporters, Femlaw and others among them, who took the high road, and who I do not view as being damaging to our party.

      "Arguments are to be avoided. They are always vulgar, and are often convincing." -- Oscar Wilde

      by Villagejonesy on Thu May 20, 2010 at 07:35:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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