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I'm watching the Kagan Hearings and Lindsey Graham had praise for the nominee.  He praised her for not supporting Habeaus Corpus for Bagram detainees.  

Of all the things she has done in her life, this is thing thing in wich the Republicans can praise.  It's disgusting!

Conservatives are so fucking evil.  We can give 2 trillion dollars to war but we have no money for unemployed citizens.  It is so sick that they represent our country.  

What is worse though is what we've gotten from Obama.  Graham said, "We've gotten what I expected from President Obama.  Some people are surprised but if you are you weren't listening carefully".  

I'm sure the Senator meant to imply that he is some crazy extemist liberal.  This Supreme Court nominee, really the one argument left to defend the President, shows what we all have known for some time...  There was no difference between McCain and Obama.  

We cannot be distracted from all the obfuscation. Corporations now dominate our lives.  We wake up and labor for their profit.  We pay taxes to a Corporate owned and dominated government.  Corporations over-exploit our natural resources.  They destroy our environment.  They start wars.  They are killing us, and when they are not literally killing the people of the world they are transforming us into slaves.  

I'm just sick and had to get something out.  This is just sad.  

We do get distracted in the forest.  The slightest difference between the parties gets magnified. Look at the results though.  It is not a sorry coincidence the Democrats need 60 votes to pass anything in the Senate but the Republicans need 50.  We are being played.  Not just by our representatives but the puppeteers behind them.  

This is why the Tea Party can gain such strong support from anarchists.  They see our government is evil and would prefer no government to this.  Government could be the locus for such good in our world, but how can it be now?   How after Citizens United can there be hope for the future of our country?  

And after such a disasterous opinion, after such a ultra-consertive Court, after Stevens leaves, Obama nominates Kagan?!  

For those that say a challenge is insane, that it will not succeed, that it will hand the country over to the Republicans....my reply is so the fuk what.  We have a conservative as President.  A man that believes COIN is better than Biden's counter-terrorism...A man that will sell-out health care for the American people to the pharmaceutical industry...

But the Supreme Court!  We must not have another conservative on the Court!  WTF do you think Kagan will become?  She is a corporatist.  

We are at War and there are two sides; Corporations and the People.  We know what side the President and this administration is on.  What side are you on?

Originally posted to michlawa2 on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:15 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  My goodness what a mess of a diary. (7+ / 0-)

      The most prolific list of progressive accomplishments in a generation is written off as "conservative."

      No, we're not at war with "corporatists."  Maybe you are... but that's what makes the tea party wing of the Democratic party so impotent.  This isn't an emotional game we're playing.  It's for big boys and girls who use reason and pragmatism.

      You can shake your fist at the clouds all you want, but please stop misrepresenting facts as you do so.

      •  Here is his accomplishments... (6+ / 0-)

        Instead of ending the Wars he escalted them.

        Instead of Universal Health Care, the health insurance industry is gaining 33 million new customers.  

        Instead of helping the poor, we bail out the banks and GM.  

        We have over 100,000 troops occupying the 5th poorest country on Earth.  

        If we can spend 2 trillion dollars on wars for geo-political resources, why cant we spend 2 trillion dollars on clean energy that would make those wars unnecessary?

        And now this Supreme Court choice which is definitely nominating someone of his philosophy.  

        Liberal achievements my ass.

        •  Actually only escalated one war (0+ / 0-)

          Drawing down in Iraq.

          PS I oppose the escalation that is happening in Afghanistan.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:35:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What are these great accomplishments (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Johnny Q

            of which you speak?  

            •  Didn't say a thing about great accomplishments (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              luckylizard, nickrud

              really, I didn't.

              Just questioned you on a point of fact.  Obama has reduced the number of troops in Iraq, not escalated.

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:44:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you wrote... (0+ / 0-)

                The most prolific list of progressive accomplishments in a generation is written off as "conservative."

                Drawing down in Iraq counts there?  We drawn down to pre-surge levels there and that is the great "progressive" accomplishment?

                Come on...

                We got financial aid for college students Weeeeee...in Norway higher education is free.  On top of that students get stipends so they won't have to work while in school.  

                That would be a great progressive achievement.  For those that say "money,money,money!" say that when the President asks for another 100 billion dollar supplemental for HIS wars.

          •  yes, the escalation is happening as a (0+ / 0-)

            prelude to exiting in 2011.  duh!  when dumbya pulled troops from afghanistan to send them to iraq, he further destabilized an already unstable country.

            people at the time kept saying that the real issue was afghanistan and that we never should have left a force the size of the nypd in that country.

            my opinion is that obama is trying to undo the incredible damage shrubya did originally before exiting the field entirely.

            cleaning up the messes made by bushco can't be done with a handful of people.  so, unfortunately, obama gets the blame for trying to "fix" yet another fine mess bush/cheney got us into.

            MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

            by edrie on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 01:36:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The diary is a mess (more of a rant), (0+ / 0-)

        but I don't see how you are clarifying.

        The most prolific list of progressive accomplishments in a generation is written off as "conservative."

        For clarity, what is the list the diarist has written off?

      •  Denial or stupidity? (0+ / 0-)

        That is the question.  

        Or perhaps like most members of the GOP, your foolish statements (and the appalling arrogance with which you spew them)are simply a reflection of a fearful, greedy, and blindly self-serving nature.

        "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

        by enough already on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 01:05:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  anybody who recommends this diary (0+ / 0-)

      or this tip jar is a fucking moron.

      This Supreme Court nominee, really the one argument left to defend the President, shows what we all have known for some time...  There was no difference between McCain and Obama.  

      So fucking stupid, they should be banned from this site. Jesus christ.

      Show me on the doll where Rahm touched you.

      by taylormattd on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 12:35:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  First, I'm not a war with anyone. I believe war (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    louisprandtl

    is the worst pestilence of mankind. Second, I don't hate people who have to work for corporations, people have to eat to survive. Finally, conservatives are not evil, they have a different idealogy than I do, but many are decent people who care about others. There are conservatives who are evil, but there are many liberals and progressives who are just as evil.

    Solitude is painful when one is young, but delightful when one is more mature...Einstein

    by tazz on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:30:28 AM PDT

  •  Oh my (5+ / 0-)

    There [is] no difference between McCain and Obama.

    And not only that, we've known it for along time! ooh, scary.

    Actually, there is a difference.

    And the supreme court is the issue where this difference is most pronounced.

    If you can't see the difference between Sotomayor and Kagan from Roberts, Alito, Scalia, and Thomas, you are blind.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:34:18 AM PDT

  •  In the end, whether it's corporations, wall st, (5+ / 0-)

    big banks, the Fed, IMF, World Bank, the MIC, etc., the common citizen is clearly losing ground in this country and most of the world.  Are we on the verge of a class war, or class wars?  Maybe, but still a ways to go before it gets bad enough.  Watching what happens now in Europe after the G20 austerity conference might shed some light on what's going to happen here.  

    "I will no longer be labeled, except as a human being."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:35:28 AM PDT

  •  It is the corporatists against the people, (9+ / 0-)

    and both parties help the corporatists instead of the people.  Now that's bipartisanship!

    2.5 trillion dollars have been "borrowed" since the [SS] system was "reformed" in the 80s and they simply don't want to pay it back. - dKos Blogger -

    by Silverbird on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:37:34 AM PDT

  •  A clever use of language stupidizes the debate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    michlawa2, Johnny Q

    Under the US Constitution, everybody already has the Rights guaranteed by the Writ of Habeas Corpus so the authorities can only TAKE AWAY those rights, not GRANT anybody those rights. That would be as impossible as giving life to something that's already alive. You can't GIVE life to something that's already alive - you can only TAKE IT AWAY.

    Kagan supported the government's TAKING AWAY of those rights from the Bagram detainees.

    Maybe one day we will have an actual news media, with unbiased Pundits, and then we'll all know the truth about the Writ of Habeas Corpus.

    •  A couple points I wonder about (0+ / 0-)

      Did German Prisoners of War have Habeas rights? Does American law apply throughout the world? Cases can be made for both, but they have yet to be made. Your assumption that both of the above are true have yet to be ruled upon.

      •  Habeas rights are not guarenteed to foriegn (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nickrud, Johnny Q, laker

        citizens, especially outside the country.  However, should it be the position of the United States to eschew the rights that make Justice possible because we are in another country, dealing with aliens?  

        Kagan says yes.  

        I believe that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  Since we are occupying a foriegn country, is it justice to hold someone indefinitely without proving their guilt?  It is horrid and I wish Americans could clearly see it as such.  

        Kagan doesn't.  

        •  As long as their subjected to all the (0+ / 0-)

          rules under the Geneva Conventions, no I don't find it an injustice. We claim to be at war - there are responsibilities under those treaties we must meet. Where the injustice lies, and where proceedings can and should move forward is whether or not they are being accorded the rights and privileges they're due as non-criminal detainees.

          •  Law does not make justice... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Johnny Q

            Law makes legality.  Justice, decency, human dignity...these things are independant of any law or treaty.  

            The Geneva Convention isn't some holy thing, how we perceive right and wrong, good and bad...

            She thinks that we can detain and hold foriegn defendents indefinitely without trial.  I cannot see that as anything but abhorrent.  

            If you agree with her im sorry.  You might feel different if an alien army invaded America, accuse you of a crime, and detain you indefintely.

            •  Sorry. I don't put myself and my opinions (0+ / 0-)

              on such a high plane that all other thoughts or opinions (as codified by hard won negotiations between honest brokers) are bunk. You obviously feel that there's no other arbiter but your emotion.

      •  Yes, the Germans did have those rights... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Johnny Q

        ...and the Writ of Habeas Corpus in NOT "an American Law" as you seem to think it is - we've incorporated that universally recognized right into our Constitution to form the foundation of our own legal system.

        And "cases cannot be made for both" - whatever that's supposed to mean. The law is very clear on that. Look it up. Google is a friend.

        •  Actually it's very clear (0+ / 0-)

          that foreign nationals don't always have habeas rights (see Johnson v. Eisentrager 1950, Supreme Court). The rulings regarding Guantanamo detainees having habeas rights hinged upon their being on soil 'under US jurisdiction'. The law is actually very clear that foreign nationals need specific circumstances to be eligible for Habeas proceedings under American Law.

          •  If it's that CLEAR (0+ / 0-)

            ...maybe you can show me where it says so?

            •  Gave you a court case. You can also (0+ / 0-)

              read Hamdi. Between the two you'll discover the current state of Habeas under American Law.

              •  A court case does not establish a law. (0+ / 0-)

                Judges can be wrong, and judges are not supposed to make the law in the first place. It says so in the Constitution.

                Maybe we let it roll to serve a purpose, but that's how stray away from the rule of law, not establish a law. What's a "current state" of something that supposed to be as foundational and fundamental as The Law? That's like saying the state of Climate Change can be established by looking at the current state of the weather outside.

                The "current state" of torture during Bush was that torture was legal - we had legal memos to that effect and everything. What the current state of torture now? Legal or illegal? I cannot understand why you're want to use spit and duct-tape where you need rivets but I like my laws properly established through proper channels, not by what a judge who ruled in panic when the nation had capped it's diaper.

                Under Bush, the "current state" of the US Constitution was that it was not a suicide pact - that it could be ignored when it got in the way, remember?

                •  GAH (0+ / 0-)

                  The supreme court provides the final interpretation of what law is. Why else are they in the constitution. They didn't write Habeas as recognized and codified in the US Code http://www.law.cornell.edu/... but they do interpret it.

                  What are you talking about, when you say The Law? Is this the same as saying the constitution and our laws are based on the 10 Commandments, or some other meta-law?

                  You're conflating Executive interpretation and Supreme court rulings in your third paragraph, so I'm just gonna say you're not speaking of US law as interpreted by the Supremes (which coincidentally, are called that because the are the supreme arbiter).

  •  I think calling them the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TracieLynn, michlawa2, isabelle hayes

    Trans National Corporations, to distinguish them from  small corporations would help.  We think of Coke, Pepsi, McDonalds, Microsoft General Motors etc. as being American corporations, and B of A, Wells Fargo etc. as American banks.  

    What do we struggle against the most? The inevitable.

    by phonegery on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:47:28 AM PDT

    •  You're write trans-nationals not small (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      phonegery

      corporations.  The corporate form does not have to be evil, however, with Corporations more powerful that some countries without any of the moral obligations of government, they have become so.  

      Non-Governmental Organizations are the New World Order and they own our government.  Just watch how Republicans go so far as to apologize to BP for us demanding they compensate the people they've harmed.  

  •  The fact that she doesn't support habeas corpus (4+ / 0-)

    should be a dealbreaker.

    You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

    by Johnny Q on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 11:52:38 AM PDT

  •  You are aware that you are posting on a blog ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    luckylizard

    owned by a corporation, are you not?  If not, it is Kos Media, LLC.  You can't escape 'em.  They're everywhere!

    And I just read your heading to my neighbor.  He's about as blue collar as you can imagine and he want's to know: "What the FUCK is a cor * por * a * tist?"  That construction isn't ringing a bell with people I know.  How successful have you been in getting people down to the anti-corporatist rallies in your neighborhood?

    •  None at all! (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not about to try either lol.  Frankly I don't have the skill. I am ranting about my personal thoughts.  

      If I thought I could make a difference I might try to word things better.  I don't have skill in that area.  Professional politicians like Obama do.  I'm just a common person, with little skill in convincing or moving people.  

      My diary is my opinion though.  If you share it at all perhaps you can word things more properly and make a difference.

    •  Not really refuting an argument there though (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      laker

      are you? The anti-corporatist message has been ineffective so therefore forget it? A blue collar person doesn't know what a corporatist is so its bullshit?

      All you are doing is REINFORCING the point. There was a time when working people knew all about adversarial money power and were organised to fight it for their benefit. The fact that such knowledge is lost to them today just shows how overwhelming that power has become. Its not even questioned anymore.

      It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

      by Grassee on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 12:13:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Americans Elected Evil Republicans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bleedingheartliberal218

    And Americans are poised to give them huge victories in Nov.

    Let's face it, Bill Mahrer was right - Americans are stupid.

    They are stupid, greedy, ignorant and as evil as the elected officials they place in power.

  •  I agree with the general principle of the diary (3+ / 0-)

    and am VERY upset about Kagen's positions on torture and all.

    But things ARE less bad than they would be had McCain won and in some ways better.

    But Obama IS a corporotist and that does endanger all of us.  Could be worse, but still will mean we the people are unlikely to get the corrections this country needs desperately.

    "Trust me, after taxes, a million dollars is not a lot of money." --Michael Steele

    by MsGrin on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 12:18:56 PM PDT

  •  This diary lays bare the id of Dkos. (5+ / 0-)

    For many here tearing down the oligarchy is the only idea their heads can hold.  They have no idea what they'd replace it with, or even how this "war" is to be won - but everything is viewed through this prism.

    This is what allowed the great majority of this community to view the insuring of 9 million people previously without healthcare as a step backward.  Because all it did was insure people - it did not punish the insurance companies.

    Punishing corporate America and jailing the last administration - that is what these folks care about.  Human beings are lower on the totem pole.

    Your outrage is duly noted.

    by snout on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 12:36:16 PM PDT

  •  Corporatists Have Good Credit Ratings & Wear (0+ / 0-)

    expensive wardrobes so they must be nice.  EOE - l/i/e.

  •  Finally (0+ / 0-)

    Lindsey Graham says something I agree with.

    Graham said, "We've gotten what I expected from President Obama.  Some people are surprised but if you are you weren't listening carefully".  

    "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

    by enough already on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 12:56:30 PM PDT

    •  So the whole (0+ / 0-)

      "You expected too much of him" line being pushed by the Blue Dogshit types is a GOP talking point.  Always thought so.

      Conservatives suck.

      You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

      by Johnny Q on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 01:17:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  if you want to have a constructive (0+ / 0-)

    discussion about your criticisms of the President it is not a good idea to say that he is the same as John McCain. That is ludicrous and if you can't see that there is no way to have a constructive discussion.

    For starters:

    Did you know the bailouts were arranged by Bush and Paulson? Did you know that almost all the money has been paid back?

    Would McCain have chosen Sotomayor and Kagan for the Court?  Do you really think they are as bad as Scalia and Roberts?

    What do you think we would have had for healthcare reform if McCain were President?  Wall Street reform?  Climate legislation?  Regulation of corporations?  What?

    •  sssshhhhh... you're talking sense to this diarist (0+ / 0-)

      and the other "anti-corporatist" ranters around here.  careful, you MIGHT make their heads explode!

      MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

      by edrie on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 01:32:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am anti corporatist too but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nickrud

        I try to be realistic.  President Obama is President.  He is limited by the right wing "Dems" in Congress.  A truly left wing agenda would not sell anyway.  Sure I disagree with him on some things but the alternatives are so much worse.

        And I have to ask - what is stupider

        Saying Obama is the same as McCain or saying that there was no difference between Gore and Bush in 2000?  

        •  there is a difference here between (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bluegrass50

          being against abuses by unregulated corporations (thanks to gwb, the idiot) and being realistic.

          corporations are not, in and of themselves, bad or unworkable.

          it is with the lax enforcement or non-enforcement of the anti-trust laws that we find ourselves in this situation.  by allowing a very few "corporations" to become "too big to fail", WE, as a government, have failed.

          the anti-trust laws were written exactly to prevent unfair competition, unregulated control over markets.  they have been unenforced for the duration of republican destruction of our economic model.

          i would love to see those laws agressively put into place to, ONCE AGAIN, break up the banking, the bell network, the entertainment/news network, the media outlets, the marketing, production, etc.  only when these megaconglomerates are disentangled will we have any chance of real economic recovery.

          the consolidation at the top, the abuses of wall street (and foreign versions) are signalling now that this model cannot sustain itself as the entire world teeters on collapse.

          the crap thrown around here by the politically naive (bush=gore elect nader! crowd) comes, imho, from the very young who have never seen a different party (the democrats) in real control of congress.  that hasn't occurred in over 30 years - much outside the political awareness of the younger ideologues, unfortunately.

          for those of us who were around to see the rise of union protection for workers, the rise of the middle class under the democrats in d.c., the real opportunities to build a good future and then saw it all wiped out with the onslaught of reagan and his piss-down crowd, we KNOW what is possible and what has caused this great tragedy that is now america.

          we know who to blame.  the republicans and the neocons who set about re-writing american history to the days before the new deal.  

          unfortunately, either this new group do politically (un)aware participants are either too lazy to do their homework, are uneducated, or are simply too ignorant to study american history to see the linkage.

          sigh... i know i shouldn't have turned the computer back on - there goes my appetite.  not you, the subject.

          nite... i'm signing off before i decide it's better to head back to bed and pull the covers over my head.  that won't help so i think i will go for food instead.  good luck and hang in there - maybe eventually we'll get through to those who choose not to see.

          MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

          by edrie on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 10:34:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  same as McCain? Did President Obama (0+ / 0-)

    choose Sarah Palin to be VP?  Do you realize who would be a heartbeat away if McCain had been elected?

  •  No difference? Really ?!? (0+ / 0-)

    It's nearly impossible to even respond, although the most obvious difference is a young, healthy man with a highly experienced running mate and an old, multi-times cancer survivor with, well, Palin.

    -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

    by luckylizard on Mon Jun 28, 2010 at 03:14:19 PM PDT

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