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Have you heard the good news? Now that Barack Obama has been elected president, racism in America has ended. And we must turn our attention to the new racism -- against whites. At least, that’s what Republicans would have us believe.

This isn’t exactly a new argument. In 1990, Jesse Helms, the senator from North Carolina, won his re-election with the infamous "Hands" commercial:

You needed that job and you were the best qualified. But they had to give it to a minority, because of a racial quota. Is that really fair?

That was the argument 20 years ago -- that undeserving minorities were benefiting from an unjust system that discriminated against whites.

And things really haven’t changed much. In fact, they’ve gotten worse.

Conservatives are complaining about a whole shift in the balance of power in America, where women and minorities have all the advantages, and white men -- the real Americans -- can’t get a break.

Even the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights has turned its focus almost exclusively to investigating charges of "reverse racism."

While the Commission is supposed to be bipartisan, six of its eight members are conservatives. According to Michael Yaki, one of the two Democrats on the Commission:

"The commission has been used as a tool by the right-wingers to legitimize taking far-out positions, because we still carry the brand of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, a bipartisan body that has been anything but bipartisan under their leadership," he said.

The Commission has spent the past year investigating what it claims are "racially discriminatory policies," from health care reform to affirmative action policies in Ohio to ACORN's "culture of corruption," to the Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act. And, just for good measure, the Commission also sent a letter to Senate leaders, opposing passage of the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

You would think, given the incessant complaints from the rightwing media and even the U.S. Commission on Civil rights, that America has undergone a total transformation, that the nation has become an unjust, even dangerous, place for whites to live. It doesn't matter that the complaints are unfounded, even absurd; what matters is the effectiveness of spreading fear.

Just look at how it's worked in Arizona, where conservatives, including Gov. Jan Brewer and Sen. John McCain, have repeated the lie that Phoenix, Arizona is the "number two kidnapping capital of the world."

It isn't true, but that hardly matters. Arizona is a scary place, and brown people, with their brown children and their accents and their violence, are to blame. That's why we need draconian laws -- to protect white Americans, real Americans. To preserve our very way of life. Hell, to preserve Western Civilization.

That's the argument they've been touting for years. Remember in 2006, when John Gibson warned that white people needed to have more babies to counteract Hispanic birthrates?

To put it bluntly, we need more babies. Forget about that zero population growth stuff that my poor generation was misled on. Why is this important? Because civilizations need population to survive. So far, we are doing our part here in America but Hispanics can't carry the whole load. The rest of you, get busy. Make babies, or put another way -- a slogan for our times: "procreation not recreation."

This was not just the rant of one crazy conservative on Fox News, though. This is what conservatives believe. They even have a name for it: demographic winter.

Conservatives have taken to using "demographic winter" as a catchphrase for turning the discussion into another battle in the culture war. For many on the Right, demographic winter describes a future of economic catastrophes, the decline of Western Civilization, and the destruction of the "natural" family.

...

Demographic winter -- or "birth dearth" as it is sometimes called -- is the ultimate culture war battle, rooted in the rise of feminism, legalized abortion, the acceptance of homosexuality, illegal immigration, and the growth of minority populations. All of this is supposedly the result of a multi-decade campaign by liberals to undermine "natural law" and the "natural" family.

In other words, our entire civilization is at risk because of abortion and immigrants and equal pay and environmentalists and all the other things that rightwing Christian fundamentalists don’t like.

Be afraid, because one day, there will be more of them than you. They will surround you. And take your jobs. And your money. And steal your elections. And your White House. And your Medicare.

And that, conservatives believe, is why they must fight back. Fight back against the black president, against the minorities, against the women, the gays, ACORN. They must fight to take back their country, to preserve their way of life. Because they are being robbed, punished, discriminated against. They are victims.

Like the National Organization for Marriage:

"We've taken great pains to make clear what were all about. We view ourselves as a new civil rights movement ... committed to something that in the 1960s was key: the right to vote."

This organization is devoted to passing legislation that strips gays and lesbian of their civil rights. And yet, it claims to be leading a civil rights movement. NOM and its supporters apparently are victims of oppression, fighting for their rights, shouted down and persecuted for their beliefs. They hold demonstrations to proclaim their hatred, and then cry outrage when their hatred is shouted down. They are struggling for their right to oppress others, for fear they will be oppressed by those they oppress.

Conservative women are now "fighting back" by "reclaiming" feminism from the very women who have actually fought for the progress they are trying so hard to undo. (Hell, the Mama Grizzlies don’t even support equal pay for equal work.) They are "fighting back" so they can deny women the right to make decisions about their own lives, so they can be deprived of health care, so they can be denied any government assistance to help care for their children, so they can earn less than men.

This is the movement they are leading to preserve the status quo.

But it’s not just the extremists on the right who are perpetuating this myth of institutionalized discrimination against white Americans. Recently, even Sen. James Webb (D-VA) got in on the action last week, in the op-ed pages of the Wall Street Journal, to "debunk" white privilege. Webb complained of "government-enforced diversity policies have marginalized many white workers" and "special programs" that allow "recently arrived immigrants to move ahead of similarly situated whites whose families have been in the country for generations." Apparently, in Webb's view, those white workers who have been in this country for generations are more deserving of opportunities than minorities, and particularly immigrants.

Even as he claims there is no such thing as white privilege, his article is the perfect demonstration of exactly that -- an assumption that any systems in which whites do not first and foremost benefit must somehow be discriminatory. As Tim Wise explained, in his detailed critique of Webb's article:

Among the "special programs" about which Jim Webb appears to know or care nothing, one might include the Homestead Act (which gave out over 200 million acres of virtually free land to whites, beginning in the 1860s), several key programs of the New Deal, from which blacks were mostly excluded for years, but which saved millions of struggling whites--such as the Federal Housing Administration loan program, which by 1960 was being used to finance 40 percent of all white housing--and the GI Bill, which in theory was meant for all returning veterans, but which in practice favored whites, since segregation was allowed to trump the "right" of black and brown GIs to use their job or educational benefits under the program. These and other programs suggest the greatest irony in critiques of affirmative action: namely, that the nation has been engaged in affirmative action for whites virtually forever. But only now has the specter of "preferential treatment" become a problem.

 
All of this -- from the complaints of "reverse racism" to the fear-mongering about immigrants to investigations into so-called discriminatory policies -- are all part of a reaction to a perceived threat, not supported by facts but, at most, anomalous anecdotes. It denies the very real evidence that shows that white men still enjoy huge advantages over women and minorities by nearly every metric imaginable.

Earlier this year, The Atlantic published a cover story titled The End of Men, which has since been cited, ad infinitum, as evidence that men are indeed becoming obsolete, that the power they have always enjoyed is slipping away from them. And that's, of course, a bad thing. If more women are entering college, it’s bad for men. If more women are succeeding in the work place, it’s bad for men. Women are stealing from the rightful owners those jobs, those paychecks, those corner offices that have always belonged to men.

But despite these worries, despite complaints of the "mancession," women still aren't doing as well as men. A study from the U.S. Labor Department, released in June of this year, showed that women still earn about 20 percent less than their male counterparts. And it’s true in nearly every single line of work, from real estate brokers to designers to chief executives to pharmacists to bartenders. (Good news for female postal service clerks: they make 4 percent more than their male counterparts.)

And while the proponents of male victimhood will often cite numbers that show the majority of law school and medical students are women, guess what? They’re still not going to make as much as their male counterparts once they graduate. In fact, the medical and legal fields have some of the worst wage gap numbers of all. (Women physicians and surgeons make 40 percent less than their male counterparts. Women lawyers make 22 percent less than their male counterparts.)

But the numbers don’t matter. Because the balance of power has shifted. A black president will now use his power to seek "revenge" upon white America. A Latina’s appointment to the Supreme Court raises concerns about her inherent bias, simply by virtue of her life experience as a woman of color, while more than a hundred white men appointed to the court are deemed "neutral," as if their experience as white men has not informed the way they see the world. As Eugene Robinson explained:

Republicans' outrage, both real and feigned, at Sotomayor's musings about how her identity as a "wise Latina" might affect her judicial decisions is based on a flawed assumption: that whiteness and maleness are not themselves facets of a distinct identity. Being white and male is seen instead as a neutral condition, the natural order of things. Any "identity" -- black, brown, female, gay, whatever -- has to be judged against this supposedly "objective" standard.

Thus it is irrelevant if Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. talks about the impact of his background as the son of Italian immigrants on his rulings -- as he did at his confirmation hearings -- but unforgivable for Sotomayor to mention that her Puerto Rican family history might be relevant to her work. Thus it is possible for Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) to say with a straight face that heritage and experience can have no bearing on a judge's work, as he posited in his opening remarks yesterday, apparently believing that the white male justices he has voted to confirm were somehow devoid of heritage and bereft of experience.

Yes, discrimination is real. Racism is real. Sexism is real. But it is not now, nor has it ever been, straight white men who are the victims of systemic discrimination. And the election of a black man to the presidency doesn't change that. And the appointment of a woman -- or even two women -- to the Supreme Court doesn't change that. And trumped-up charges against ACORN, or the New Black Panther Party, doesn't change that. And the fight for equal rights for gays and lesbians -- a fight that has seen more failures than successes -- doesn't change that.

There are no new victims of new oppressors in this new era. There are only the same oppressors spouting the same garbage, clinging to the same imbalance of power that has privileged them. And that is why every progressive who cares about justice and equality must fight, not just against Republicans, but even and especially against those members of the Democratic party who have bought into the heinous lies and fear-mongering from the right. Because complaints of reverse discrimination perpetuate a fictional narrative that has nothing to do with equality or justice, and everything to with an increasing desperation to cling to an old way of life that should, that must, meet its deserved end.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:00 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  This does not seem to be a fair description (0+ / 0-)

      of the quoted text.

      That's the argument they've been touting for years. Remember in 2006, when John Gibson warned that white people needed to have more babies to counteract Hispanic birthrates?

      To put it bluntly, we need more babies. Forget about that zero population growth stuff that my poor generation was misled on. Why is this important? Because civilizations need population to survive. So far, we are doing our part here in America but Hispanics can't carry the whole load. The rest of you, get busy. Make babies, or put another way -- a slogan for our times: "procreation not recreation."

      He says that Hispanics can't carry the whole load and that other Americans also need to have more babies, but where does he say that there is any need to "counteract" Hispanic birthrates?

    •  I also think some of the complaints (0+ / 0-)

      about prior discrimination are unreasonable.

      and the GI Bill, which in theory was meant for all returning veterans, but which in practice favored whites, since segregation was allowed to trump the "right" of black and brown GIs to use their job or educational benefits under the program.

      By this standard, it was not possible to have a program in those days that did not favor whites unless it somehow magically dismantled Jim Crow.

      In actual fact, the GI Bill was radical for its day because it did not explicitly discriminate and it allowed many blacks to achieve educational levels that had previously been ludicrously out of reach.

  •  GOP all about fear of "demographic winter" (14+ / 0-)

    They've noticed that only white people who identify as Christian and hetero (in public) vote Republican.

    Everybody else has to go.

    Take the fight to them. Don't let them bring it to you. - Harry S Truman

    by jgoodfri on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:05:07 AM PDT

  •  Wanna Change This? (7+ / 0-)

    Youth lives by personality, age lives by calculation. -- Aristotle

    by not2plato on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:05:25 AM PDT

    •  Everyone go check out this link! It is one of (6+ / 0-)

      best things I've seen here in months.  IMO, its basic (unspoken) message is: don't get mad, get to work and get even.

      Amongst the many, many great points you make is this gem:

      Many statehouse races are especially important this cycle because the next congress in your state will handle reapportionment after the census data comes in.  

      I keep worrying that not many people, so far as I can tell, seem to have taken this point to heart.  The consequences of this election are profound and will have an impact for decades.

      Anyone who thinks waiting until 2012 to get engaged is good enough is wrong!  By then, if the Goopers take control of either House of Congress, it may be too late.  

      "It's a sight to see." Pres. Obama - Dec 8/09 and Jan 16/10

      by Observerinvancouver on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:51:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, a lot of us are already working, if quietly-- (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Observerinvancouver

        --to back state and local candidates with our volunteer hours and donation dollars. In our county, we're looking to put one more Democrat onto our county commission, several Democrats into Republican-held state representative/senator seats, and a couple of Democrats into open Republican-held Congressional districts.

        Not expecting a lot of fanfare till hopefully after Election Day, but we on the ground are workin' on it.

  •  SSDD (12+ / 0-)

    Same shit, different decade (or day for purists). Those with power always bitch an moan when anything changes. Why are we surprised at all to see this? We fully expected it. Maybe it's the level and naked way it's being done?

    Bush didn't just drive the country into the ditch. He stole the mirrors, slashed the tires, lit it on fire, then drove it into the ditch.

    by ontheleftcoast on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:06:15 AM PDT

  •  There are more white people in the US today... (20+ / 0-)

    ...than at any time in its history, in absolute terms.

    But it sort of belies the whole melting pot idea of America to worry about the supply running out, eh?

    These people have no sense of history. In the 18th century, the 18th century, there was a worry that there were too many Germans coming to the US and that the culture would collapse. Then it was too many Irish. Then too many Italians, too many Chinese, too many Eastern Europeans.

    All that said, the US Constitution included clauses that assumed immigration. The Declaration of Independence, among its grievances, listed restriction of immigration:

    He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

    This fear of the extinction of white people is groundless, and it's based on inaccurate science, history, ethnography, anthropology, and biology. And it's counter to what the founders intended about the nature of immigration as being a constant refreshing of this country.

    Looking globally, we do have something to fear -- too many people, not running out of them. We are already up against limits in natural resources in key areas, and we're fouling our nest with global warming by excessive consumption of what we do have. It will spiral out of control if society is viewed as tribes of people, distinct from one another and with particular distinctions to be maintained, as this will inevitably pit us against one another.

    Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

    by TheCrank on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:08:15 AM PDT

  •  The balance of power really hasn't shifted (24+ / 0-)

    yet. This represents the fear that it would.

    If there was found a way to unite disadvantaged whites with the disadvantaged brown-skinned people who they currently hold in contempt, the people at the top would be quaking in there boots.

    "Too big to fail" is not too big to jail.

    by Angela Quattrano on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:09:01 AM PDT

    •  That was the traditional Democratic coalition (8+ / 0-)

      If Democrats would be more like Democrats, we wouldn't have to worry about the GOP so much.

      Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

      by TheCrank on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:12:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rednecks (4+ / 0-)

        should be half of the democratic base.

        They are after all mostly just regular working folks.

        •  And thus we run into a quandry (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          princss6, reuseman

          Why aren't the gun loving, gay bashing, mysoginistic, Pat Robertson worshipping rednecks part of the Democratic party? Could it be our tent isn't big enough? The Repukes have done a great job of dividing the masses against themselves. But do we really want a bunch of homophobes voting Democratic? Do we really want another dozen Bart Stupack type Democrats? How about another fifty? Should the goal be "more" without "better"?

          Bush didn't just drive the country into the ditch. He stole the mirrors, slashed the tires, lit it on fire, then drove it into the ditch.

          by ontheleftcoast on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:38:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your stereo types are showing (4+ / 0-)

            as is your lack of tolerance.

            Most rednecks are hard working down to earth people. You are demonizing people without knowing them. EXACTLY the same way many white people demonize latinos or blacks without knowing them.

            Therefore I say you are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.

            •  Actually I grew up in redneck country (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              princss6

              in Minnesota. So I know them all too well. My parents and sister now live in Texas. I see the Texan version of rednecks every time I visit. Yes, there are pockets of blue sky in Texas, it's not all bad. But just how many groups do we want to leave at the back of the bus just to get some redneck votes?

              Bush didn't just drive the country into the ditch. He stole the mirrors, slashed the tires, lit it on fire, then drove it into the ditch.

              by ontheleftcoast on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:51:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  that's 2 stupid comments by missliberties (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MrJersey

              We don't have time to find the few kernals among the mountain of chaff that is Redneckia.

              You are on a roll.

              •  Lovely display (4+ / 0-)

                I swear to fucking god.

                Liberals claim the self righteous mantle of tolerance and then go and say stupid shit like this.

                Some liberals are the meaner than a rattlesnake with no rock to hide under.

                You believe in human rights but only for your designated tribe.

                Gotcha. What a crock.
                Blah.

                •  The point is, though, (8+ / 0-)

                  that we have to choose which of our core values we have to disregard in order to attract those who disagree with us...either that or do a better job of educating those folks that they've been sold a bill of goods by the GOP focusing on issues like abortion and gay rights that have no direct effect on their lives while glossing over economic inequalities that do have an effect.

                  "When it gets harder to love, love harder" -- Van Jones, NN10, 7/23/10

                  by Cali Scribe on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:09:41 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Or the government can just stay out of people's (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    boofdah

                    business and the individual rise and fall on his own merits.

                    For the elite there are no material problems, only PR problems. Time for a new elite.

                    by Paul Goodman on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:24:09 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Maybe we can ask Santa to do it, too. (5+ / 0-)

                      Because academia, law, science, and government were a lot more diverse before those pointy-headed bureaucrats starting messing with success, am I right?

                      •  I've written before about a colleague who (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        blindyone, princss6, NC Blue

                        "played devil's advocate" and said that maybe all of the people who needed to be in the sciences were in them.  Again, that natural order of things.  Despite my initial instict to call him everything but a child of G*d, I pointed out, "or...  maybe cancer or any number of diseases or even the common cold might have been cured.  You don't know if either through their actions or their presence, with having a diversity of experience and ways of looking at things, these people who were shut out could have made a difference."  He did that hands-up idiotic gesture because, after all, he was only playing the devil's advocate.

                        No, it's never just been in the South.

                        by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:38:40 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  If someone owns (0+ / 0-)

                    a gun does that go against our core values.

                    Is it worth throwing them overboard.

                    Educating any and all to the fact that the purpose of government is many things, one of which is taking to the big boss man that is trying to get you to work over time without pay.

                    The miners are a perfect example of how to make the case that good government helps us all.

                •  So perhaps we should show tolerance to an (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  boofdah, blindyone, schnecke21, princss6

                  to people who think their other fellow citizens should be denied job opportunities just because they are gay, or whatever so we can build a bigger tent?  The really shameful chapter of the history of the Democratic Party is that they maintained that unholy coalition with all those Southern racist politicians for all those years prior to the enactment of the Civil Rights legislation.  The Democrats were hurt politically when the Dixiecrats all left to become Republicans, but at least the Dems could be relieved of the guilt of supporting racists, while in turn, the Republicans sold their souls to adopt the Nixon "Southern Strategy."  Look around at the Republican Convention that elected McCain/Palin just to see how many minority faces could be observed in the crowd.  Face it, the Republican Party has become the home of "white privilege" and they act accordingly.  To reject becoming more like the Republicans just to attract more people under the tent is not an "intolerance" in a bad way, but to be intolerant of racism, homophobia, and gender discrimination just seems to be a natural part of the evolving human condition.  

                  And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

                  by MrJersey on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:31:13 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Why do they think that? (0+ / 0-)

                    Because they have been fucking brainwashed.

                    Hello Southern Strategy. Hello Fear Mongering.

                    That was the point of this wasn't it. The dairy shows us how the other side gets their way.

                    So why not reach out to those that have been fooled and show them they don't have to hate us. We are on their side.

                •  I transitioned in Arkansas. (0+ / 0-)

                  Do I have to recount all the evil that was directed towards me or can you imagine it?  Are the votes of those people more important than my equal rights?

          •  Comments like your just play into the hands of (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            missliberties

            the wingnuts.  

            "It's a sight to see." Pres. Obama - Dec 8/09 and Jan 16/10

            by Observerinvancouver on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:05:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Obviously it is a failure ...... (0+ / 0-)

          ..... of the Democratic message/messenger that "regular working folks", who don't have 2 nickels to rub together, consider themselves Republicans.  

          The electorate is what it is.  There has to be a way to get through to them.  

          Btw, it isn't with messages like "the GOP want to privatize your Social Securty".

          Instead, get out the facts and figures and point out who's collecting, how much you would have lost with the stock market crash, how that would impact one's benefits, etc.  Do I need to go on?

          It's the message/messenger that's the problem and not the voter.  

          This thread is full of trolls, at least one of which is very likely a zombie. Zombies and trolls: Seen any elves lately?

          by ThAnswr on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:19:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Be nice if someone could figure out a way (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boofdah

          to get the message across that the Dems, even though they have evil (heh) ideas, care more about getting recnecks good paying jobs, health care, education, etc. than the Goopers ever will.  The Goopers just cynically exploit them.  

          "It's a sight to see." Pres. Obama - Dec 8/09 and Jan 16/10

          by Observerinvancouver on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:01:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But what is it about our ideas that's evil? (0+ / 0-)

            We need to be reinforcing the notion, again and again, that equal rights for all--which are rooted in our party's traditionally pro-choice/pro-GLBT-rights/anti-theocratic stance--is good for America, and is just plain good humanity.

    •  There is a way (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emsprater, DefendOurConstitution

      Why did BP get to write off 10 Billion of their Escrow fund in taxes.

      In other words tax payers again pick up the tab.

      Democrats should ask why BP is asking tax payers to pay their clean up bills with this tax write off. Then ask the tea party to join them in condemning it.

      The best kept secret:

       Rednecks are the working class people.  There is no reason on god's green earth that they shouldn't vote for democrats. None.

      The right has spent decades trying to fool rednecks with the rhetoric cited in you dairy. And fearmongering on taxes.

      Rednecks should/coud be the liberal base.

      •  There's No Way for Liberals to Make Contact (8+ / 0-)

        with them.

        Not after 2 generations of libobphobic propaganda.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:23:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course there is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Paul Goodman

          First off don't call them racists.

          That is self defeating. Everyone human has a tribal instinct. If you say you don't I will call you a liar.

          Recognize that change takes time, and that the difference is knowing people who are different from you and seeing that they are in fact not scary.

          That is why to many in the younger generation being gay is like being left handed. Not big deal.

          It doesn't help that some minorities insist that they are entitled to certain rights of citizenship..... saying the only reason they are here is to earn a decent living, as if that is a reason from them to flaunt breaking the law.

          I just think rednecks particularly should come home to the democratic party. Texas used to be majority democrat. Remember.

          •  Second off, don't call them rednecks. n/t (0+ / 0-)

            Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

            by angry marmot on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:11:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe people will stop calling people (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            boofdah, Matt Z, schnecke21, princss6

            racists when they stop doing racist things?

            I am almost 60 years old, and the majority of white people have been this way all of my life.

            Now we're supposed to understand, and empathize with bigots because they're traumatized over having a Black family in the White House and a Latina on the Supreme Court?

            Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

            by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:49:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  traumatized by decades (0+ / 0-)

              of propaganda. That was angry mouses point. The target of racist ranting here isn't black people, it is to scare what people into thinking that the blacks are gonna take something away from you.

              What you say in your post just perpetuates the stereo types.

              •  Sorry, I'm not buying it. Contrary (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                boofdah, Matt Z, conlakappa, princss6

                information is out there if your mind is open.

                Just in the course of my lifetime, many (unfortunately not the majority) whites have come to believe in civil rights for all.

                And I have seen how many women changed their minds about what expectations they had for their own lives and the lives of their daughters.

                Their behavior perpetuates the stereotypes.

                Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

                by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:13:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Or some (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  boofdah, Matt Z, blindyone, princss6

                  men when it came to their daughters and what opportunities they should have.  I usually find Liza Mundy fatuous but she had a great piece in the WashPost magazine several years ago about alumni at VMI suddenly speaking up about it not being fair that their daughters wouldn't be able to attend the school.  It was the daughter from his second marriage whose future Liza's father was worried about.

                  No, it's never just been in the South.

                  by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:33:40 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Another way is (0+ / 0-)

          through music.

          Music does a lot to bridge divides.

          We see the right even trying to divide us along musical lines. IE: Liberals hate country music, or whatever. How stupid is that.

          Case in point.

          Scott Johnson of the wingnut blog powerline today has a post celebrating the music of ....... Jerry Garcia! Kudos to him for that.

          Music and American Beauty

        •  Normally I agree with much of what ......... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boofdah

          ..... you say.  

          However, I'm calling bullshit.  The strongest message we have as Democrats is the economic message.  You cannot write off a substantial part of the electorate and expect to win.  

          This thread is full of trolls, at least one of which is very likely a zombie. Zombies and trolls: Seen any elves lately?

          by ThAnswr on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:27:01 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •   It was the way after the Civil (uncivil War) (5+ / 0-)

      All those disadvantaged people had to be divided, lest they unite against the masters.
      Same old story.

      •  Ahem. The War Between The States, or The War (0+ / 0-)

        Of Northern Aggression.

        "Civil" War implies a war within a single population of people.  Such an interpretation has long been rejected by those who promote the Lost Cause.

        The War Between The States is a widely used name among the true believers; it implies the existence of a right to secede and create a separate country.

        The War of Northern Aggression...well...the popularly-elected (or did "they" steal that election?) national government made war, and will make war, on the people.  The Angles and Bachmans and Palins of today's politics tap into that theory.

        In public education, the depth of the ravine between management and labor is rivaled only by its width.

        by algebrateacher on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:40:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  alright, whatever appellation you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          algebrateacher

          put to it. Commonly called the Civil war, although, IMHO, no war can be 'civil'. Not defending anything like that war of northern aggression or anything like that.
          It served alot of masters, was my point, both sides.

          •  Victimhood and language (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shycat

            My real point is that white, male victims has a long history and is well-entrenched in language.

            Go into the big bookstores but in the states that were once in the Confederacy.  Go to the American History stacks and look for "Civil War" history.

            Things are different, and different things are marketed, in areas where people are willing to buy.

            In public education, the depth of the ravine between management and labor is rivaled only by its width.

            by algebrateacher on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:23:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  We always called it "the War Between the States" (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          algebrateacher

          because there was no move to overturn or takeover the Federal government. The move was to leave the Union.  

          Of course, the problem with that rational is that the South fired first.  

          I think if the Confederacy had succeeded in leaving the Union, we would now have a Balkanization of states in North America.  As we know, in that period there were even some counties that succeeded from states.  

          Resist corporate serfdom.

          by Mayfly on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:18:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  An argument can be made that the Confederacy's (0+ / 0-)

            constant claim that it was preserving the real legacy of the Revolution, the real government of the united States (note the small u) and the real rights of Americans to own others ("Vice President" Stephens claimed this; no one in the south argued against him, so let's not quibble over how the Civil War was or was not about slavery) that the presidency of Abraham Lincoln constituted an overturning or takeover of the Federal government, therefore the war that followed was over that legacy and those "rights."  Hence, a "civil war."

            Lost Cause historians hate that argument (and, ahem, those facts).

            In public education, the depth of the ravine between management and labor is rivaled only by its width.

            by algebrateacher on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:35:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I think they ARE quaking in their boots. (7+ / 0-)

      It's a quite deliberate strategy to keep what you'd think would be natural allies from actually forming alliances. Tell one group of working class people to blame another group of working class people, and they'll fight with each other instead of uniting to fight against those at the top who have their boot on everyone's neck.

      •  That is definitely going on... but how (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        conlakappa, princss6

        do you make a political alliance with people who will consistently vote against their own, and their childrens, best interests in order to keep people of color in their place for another election cycle?

        Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

        by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:55:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There is a great piece (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pozzo, conlakappa

          I read that it has to do with people not liking being told what to do.  It's like dealing with my seven year old.  So you have to use the moral values issue, it's hard, but it certainly can be done.  But it's a lot longer discussion than what can be done in a comment and I'm learning as I go.  There are people out there who understand it a lot more than I do.

          We just have failed in our framing.

      •  Absolutely (0+ / 0-)

        it's all on purpose, divide and conquer and blame the other.  It will be harder to do as people move into more and more neighborhoods and the other becomes the person who teaches your kids, is your neighbor, your churchgoer, your doctor, etc.

        It will become lest effective.

        But we have to not just push back but hit hard.

        Thank you for this great piece.  

    •  It is so easy to make them fight. (0+ / 0-)

      Divide $ conquer.  Almost too easy.

      If there was found a way to unite disadvantaged whites with the disadvantaged brown-skinned people who they currently hold in contempt, the people at the top would be quaking in there boots.

      It's time for trains. Infrastructure is money in the bank.

      by 88kathy on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:02:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  great? (0+ / 0-)

    Has America confused richest country for greatest country?  We were never more than 3/5 great--from the constitution to salaries, the Black man has always been about 60%.

    As an aside, the president is half White, and I'm assuming that's the half with smallish guts.

    Apres Bush, le deluge.

    by melvynny on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:09:47 AM PDT

  •  Like a "reserve army of labor" there are reserve (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    armies producing residual racist and sexist messages and the underdeployed(sic) MSM simply reproduces that festering audience of bias via Faux News and the usual 'baggers as "loss" leaders trying to get "their" country back.

    There are no new victims of new oppressors in this new era. There are only the same oppressors spouting the same garbage, clinging to the same imbalance of power that has privileged them.

    "...calling for a 5" deck gun is not parody. Not by a long shot." (gnaborretni)

    by annieli on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:10:13 AM PDT

    •  Can't let CNN (Fox Jr) off the hook (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, princss6, annieli

      here either. They will position crime stories, which appear to have no natl interest, featuring Black suspects, after some positive news about a Black politician or what is perceived to be a Black issue all the time during daytime slots.

      To me, this is one example of what might be called institutional racism.

      Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

      by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:00:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My Diary from Two Years Ago (6+ / 0-)

    What You Need to Know About White People.

    White people think that they are the real victims when it comes to racism.

    I know, you are saying to yourself, "I'm white and I don't think that!"

    Or, "You can't generalize like that!"

    Or, "You don't know what is going on in my mind, you Clinton troll!"

    Let me explain.

    I don't mean that every white person in America has a conscious personal conviction that they are the real victims of our country's white/black/brown divide.

    I am saying that the white population as a whole operates in a cognitive context where the idea that they are suffering injury at the hands of the "other" plays a fairly large role.

    "Simon Wiesenthal told me that any political party in a democracy that uses the word 'freedom' in its name is either Nazi or Communist."

    by bink on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:11:27 AM PDT

    •  I guess we all look alike to you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      reuseman

      at least we must because you can sum up all "white people" as some shared consciousness that operates with a proclivity towards bigotry with every decision.  As a "white person" I am disappointed that my parents lost that silver spoon that I was born with and I had to work my way my life, standing shoulder to shoulder with minorities and white people alike, each taking steps ahead that had more to do with moxy and luck than with the decistions of the ruling elite.  Sure, maybe somewhere you may find this fantasy land where you can blame all of your shortcomings on racism and celebrate every accomplishment as fighting the tides against you but the rest of us in the real world know that it plays a much smaller role than you will ever admit.  Quite frankly, its more about who you know, black or white, in this world that will get you ahead than the color of your skin or the anatomy between your legs.  

      •  You are mixing the plight of individuals (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        conlakappa, schnecke21, princss6

        with that of a class of people like gays or minorities.

        Everyone understands that individual people have hardships in their lives at times, and some people of all races seem to be incredibly fortunate at times.

        You have to look at the big picture. In the big picture skin color privilege does exist in the United States.

        It doesn't guarantee prosperity for every single white person of course.

        Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

        by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:04:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But it does guarantee that I'll likely not (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          blindyone

          have a UID about being in Big Sky country.  At least while not having to explain why I'm there!  Gosh, I'm taken back to an older white man on a flight to Paris telling me "I was on the other plane with another black woman...  She was from Wyoming!"  I coldly told him that I didn't know her.  Not a great start but it did get better as we talked.  He was from Colorado and seemed to consider himself quite the player.  He wasn't macking me [at least not that I'd acknowledge] but flirting with the flight attendants, which led to extra booze and pillows, and telling me about his social life.  He might have considered me an individual by the time we reached Roissy.

          No, it's never just been in the South.

          by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:48:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I thought that all you Black people (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Matt Z, conlakappa

            got to meet each other at the Black people meetings where you get secret messages from Al Sharpton and Rev Wright and plan strategies to keep us White folks down.

            And, I've actually witnessed you guys nodding and saying hello to other Black people that you pass on the street. Hmmmm- what's up with that?

            Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

            by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 01:22:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Goober! The speaking thing totally (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Matt Z, blindyone

              depends on the circumstances.  Croatia?  Yes, spoke to the 3 black people I saw, though not knowing a one.  Bed-Stuy?  Not so much!  Montana or Wyoming, bloody likely!

              As for the meetings, um, we don't talk about those, mmmkay?

              No, it's never just been in the South.

              by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 03:39:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  As I say (12+ / 0-)

    You don't realize that it's a right handed world unless you're left handed.

    Freedom without responsibility is license and not liberty. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    by Bionic on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:12:22 AM PDT

  •  I wish there was a parade today .... (6+ / 0-)

    You got me in the mood to demonstrate for or against 'stuff' after reading this. And I was pretty mellow earlier today. You're right on and as always package it so brilliantly.

  •  Same Script Followed By The KKK (5+ / 0-)

    "Birth of a nation" used to be on Youtube - it was the romanticized tale of the KKK, and how it saved whites from black voter suppression, mulatto politicians, and negro race rioters.

    Google CW2 and CWII to see how many people are fantasizing about their second civil war, an explicitly racial war. Any moment, Obama's negro cannibal rapist army will come boiling out of the cities (where no white people live), and white militias will mow them down with their AKs.

  •  Snark diary, right? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fizziks

    I live in Utah, where maternity ward nurses and obstrecians risk death from overwork on a daily basis.

    It's also home to lots of very conservative Latter Day Saint (Mormon) and evangelical Protestant Latinos and Polynesians.

    Maybe Berthold Brecht was right.  Maybe the legislature is dissolving the people and electing a new one.  But a lot of these new citizens are more conservative than the old ones.

    •  That's Utah (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      Where the influence of Mormonism keeps things conservative there. But in states that take a while to drive through like California and New York, things are increasingly diverse-and liberal. And diversity has come to the Midwest-Cincinnati has a Latino station and proposed bilingual signs (there was a fuss about that. And the new immigrants are more welcome than the old reichtards want to admit, because they revitalize neighborhoods long abandoned by people moving to the suburbs. There's also new foods, new music, and connections to the rest of the world that help with business.

      Howard Dean Forever and a Day

      by CarolDuhart on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:38:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well done piece, Mouse, I'm glad I live... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emsprater, jayden, Greek Goddess, CKendall

    ...in a reality that's alot like yours...

    Cheers.

  •  I know this stuff (5+ / 0-)

    and you do too.  Unfortunately the public is being sold
    a bill of goods on this as well as a whole host of
    other things (Social Security and Medicare come to mind)
    are being portrayed with a conservative slant in the
    media.  For example, how does the public perceive ACORN?
    I think one of the most hopeful signs is the hard
    pushback by Ms. Sherrod and how that perception changed.
    The only way this template can work will be if there
    are pundits/commentators/politicians willing to work the
    media in exactly the same manner.  

  •  Oh boy, (5+ / 0-)

    that Jesse Helms ad, set me off bigtime.
    I shut down the whole dinner party.
    'You know what he is saying here, don't you? Some ni99er is gonna take your job'.  
    That set some jaws on the table, in a sort of shock mode. Well ,I call it as I see it. It was despicable, and even in the so-called 'liberal' family I was working with, that was WAY too blunt.
    Too bad.
    Call it out.
    Makes me unpopular, sometimes, but sometimes the blunt truth is the way.
    Not sorry about it either.

  •  Keeping white women (15+ / 0-)

    at home and breeding is critical to the future of the Republican party. They sure aren't going to recruit many future GOP votes from the children of other populations.

    Therefore, lower pay for women is a useful cog in the whole machine. Don't make it pay to work or women might decide not to have so many future Republicans.

    Give birth for the Fatherland!

  •  these straight white conservatives (8+ / 0-)

    sure know how to whine.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:19:53 AM PDT

  •  P.S. I love you, Angry Mouse. (12+ / 0-)

    You say what needs to be said and you say it well, with facts, energy and style. Hooray for having you on the front page.

    "Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do." John Wooden

    by CKendall on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:20:23 AM PDT

  •  Ironically (8+ / 0-)

    or maybe, more accurately, predictably, the loudest voices re: "reverse racism" couldn't give two shites about actual white victims of this fucked up country.  Perhaps these expounders of idiocy should get out of their comfy homes and take a trip to the hollers in Kentucky and the rest of Appalachia.  Those folks are the victims of poverty -- exacerbated by a system of greed.  Most are no different today than they were in 1929.  

    There will always be racism in this country -- as long as racists breed.  There will always be victims of poverty no matter what their race -- because of the utter contempt by classes above the poverty line.

    "We think the truth is bad enough. It obviously is." -- Fishgrease

    by gchaucer2 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:20:40 AM PDT

    •  One minor quibble (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      conlakappa

      There will always be racism in this country -- as long as racists breed.

      Sometimes, racist parents spawn racist children, who stay that way throughout their lives. In fairness, it also frequently happens that children are more liberal than their parents.

      •  Yep, amusingly, the most vocally racist (5+ / 0-)

        parents of my schoolmates had at least one child who wound up with "the other."  In one family:  one son preferred Jewish women [and married one], one Asian women [and married one], and one daughter black men [married one].  Perhaps they should try less to make those people seem exotic.  

        No, it's never just been in the South.

        by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:09:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In this very venue (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FiredUpInCA

          you see again and again some variation of the comment, "My mom/dad/grandma is a fire-breathing reactionary Southern Baptist, who doesn't believe in legal access to abortion/government regulation..." (and I ended up here).

          Conservative parents produce liberal spawn. They do it all the time.

    •  They wouldn't have to travel to the holler... (0+ / 0-)

      every major inner city has poor whites.  Urban poverty isn't just black poverty, and they should be just as angry as rural whites who see poverty efforts racialized and thus decimated.  But it is going to take some work on the part of whites as others have paternalistically tried to argue that we need to cut them a break because they don't know any better.  Pshaww, they do and thus the projection.

  •  You don't escape it wherever you go these days. (6+ / 0-)

    There is terror afoot in this culture, voiced by traditional benefactors of privilege, i.e., white, straight men.

    I was a full-time student till recently. On a campus billboard, I saw the most amazing flier, publicizing a club for straight male victims. Paraphrasing the wording on the flier (slightly), this group was appealing to men who were "tired of women in their lives making all the decisions, tired of always being wrong, tired of taking only 'women's studies' classes, and feeling that feminism had gone too far." Those were a few of the bullet points I remember. "Whooo-weee," I thought, "Sounds like somebody needs to get a life and, maybe, at least join the 19th Century, if not the 21st :)"

    The rough thing is, time marches ever on. Guys like this don't have it easy now, and their lot won't improve in decades to come.

    Thanks for the diary.

  •  It's a Base Election. The Right Has Been Speaking (12+ / 0-)

    ONLY to its base since Obama swore in. Moderates obviously don't matter to them at all for now.

    I think they'll return at least partway to their 40 year norm of moving the worst of the brown horde message back to the pulpit, rightwing radio and other conservative channels to make room for more of the sober adult material to make the moderates afraid of the librullls and their scary economics.

    But for fall I think they're not going to waste a syllable on anything other than enraging and terrifying their base.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:21:23 AM PDT

    •  They're in a helluva bind. (5+ / 0-)

      Rush Limbaugh's traditional base of aging, angry white males is dying out, with nobody really coming up to replace them. Racism is crucial to their political ideology--yet the populace, as a whole, is looking more racially mixed all the time. Particularly, the younger generation, from which the zombies would draw their recruits is, well, browner than it's been. What to do?

      •  What to do? (6+ / 0-)

        Scattershot. Trump up every possible chance you can to make uneducated whites feel "oppressed". Push with all your might to try, at all costs, to maintain some demo that actually believes this stuff. Then, in areas where you are more effective, spend all your money (which you will have plenty of, given your constituency). You will lose popular opinion but you will ensure you have someone, anyone, to keep it up.

        Basically, what they're doing now. Yes, this is a losing fight for them. But don't forget that there's more money, media, and power in the hands of people who believe this than don't. They can keep this up for a while. But they're still going to lose. Isn't real diversity great?

      •  And the angry white females (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        karmsy, Matt Z, DefendOurConstitution

        are also dying out -- first thing we did after getting Mom's car when she became too sick to drive was reprogram the radio presets to get rid of the right-wing drivel that she was fond of.

        Phyllis Schlafly turns 86 in a couple of weeks, and I really don't see anyone on the horizon ready to pick up her standard in a secular context -- you've still got the folks in the Religious Reich spreading the "women subservient to men" bullcrap.

        "When it gets harder to love, love harder" -- Van Jones, NN10, 7/23/10

        by Cali Scribe on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:59:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Good news - bad news scenario: Good news (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        karmsy

        (for GOPosaurs, not for real people) is that racism is not likely to go out of style anytime soon and, even if it does against the current usual attackees (Blacks and Hispanics) it will always keep coming back in some other form.  Sad but true that this is the human condition.

        Now the bad news for the GOPosaurs and boss Limbaugh (obviously good news to all tolerant Americans) is that demographics is strongly against them.  To paraphrase a certain vice-President (hm, I just can't recall his name!): The GOPosaur insurgency is in its last throes.

        Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

        by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:53:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yet, frustratingly, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DefendOurConstitution

      the polls show that Dems have a huge deficit in the generic ballot among Independents (ditto Obama's approval).  The Reps are speaking to their base because they know that, in a normally behaving midterm election, they'll already have the moderates.  I'd love to think that their extremism will turn it into an abnormal midterm -- but there's not much historical precedent to back up that wish.

      Wieso? Weshalb? Warum? Wer nicht fragt, bleibt dumm!

      by cardinal on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:54:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Indies are trending toward Democrats (3+ / 0-)

        The Democrats' six-point advantage in Gallup Daily interviewing from  July 12-18 represents the first statistically significant lead for that  party's candidates since Gallup began weekly tracking of this measure in  March. [MOE +/- 3 percentage points.  Copyright © 2010 Gallup, Inc. All rights reserved.]

        Democrats now hold a 49-43 advantage over Republicans on the generic ballot.  Tracking closely, President Obama's job approval rating stands at 48%, compared to 44% disapproving.

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        Democrats have gone from 2 percentage points down to 6 percentage points up in only two weeks, by far their biggest jump in the past four months. Could a complex and barely understood regulatory bill really have caused that?

        Maybe, but here's another possibility. It turns out that the Democratic surge is largely due to a sudden jump in support from independents. So what caused that? Well, I was struck by an unusual correspondence between two of Gallup's charts. It turns out that whenever enthusiasm goes up among registered Republicans, preference for Republicans goes down among independents.

        http://motherjones.com/...

        •  Interesting. Thanks for the links. (0+ / 0-)

          I'm still not sure what to make of Gallup's jump, since it's so out of whack with the other polls (and not just Ras).  But two in a row is much less likely to be a fluke, so maybe the others will start to show a similar Democratic improvement.

          Wieso? Weshalb? Warum? Wer nicht fragt, bleibt dumm!

          by cardinal on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:30:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Wow, there's alot in this essay; i guess my first (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, Mayfly, DefendOurConstitution

    impression is how diabolical conservatives are!  "Demographic winter" i'd call fresh air!

    "Our 'neoconservatives' are neither new nor conservative, but old as Babylon and evil as Hell" - Edward Abbey

    by stormserge on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:21:54 AM PDT

  •  Oppression of white men? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z, bythesea, blindyone, annieli

    That's always been a major concern.

  •  Sherrod Incident Showed Their Lynch Mob Mentality (7+ / 0-)

    Someone makes a false accusation, and the white rabble start ginning themselves up for some bloodsport. Meanwhile, the plantation owner looks on in amusement..

  •  Damn Hispanics procreating so fast! It sure (5+ / 0-)

    puts a chill in the spines of the GOPosaurs. One day, not far from now, Hispanics will vote Democratic in proportions similar to Blacks (of course hopefully it will be for better Democrats than we have today).

    BTW I am one of those anchor baby Hispanics that already has 3 kids (more than 50% higher than the 1.89 kids per family in 2009).  That ought to put a chill in the GOPosaurs!

    Demographics is definitely not on the side of GOPosaurs - this is why they resort to "survival" techniques like promoting hate as a way to keep their heads above water for a little longer.

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:23:21 AM PDT

  •  Racism Is Seeing Things In Black and White (0+ / 0-)

    There are no black races, no white races.

    There are races but those ain't them.

    A Jewish woman in a shelter for abused women asked me if she was white.

    She was perturbed by the social workers telling her black men were like that - abusive.

    She said all black men were not...  [You fill in the blanks.]

    Were Jews and Gypsies privileged to be sent to death camps?  Or was there something else?

    Are most poor people privileged?  Most are pigmentally challenged, though naturally many deny it

    Why not concentrate on discrimination and leave the racism (and sexism) aside?  

    Just a suggestion.

    Best,  Terry

    •  Can't make head or tail of this. n/t (3+ / 0-)
      •  Agreed. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        karmsy, FiredUpInCA

        Scratching my head right now, though the word "trippy" comes to mind for some reason.

        •  Instead of scratching your head, (0+ / 0-)

          why not write down a description of what a black race is and what a white race is.  Then you can post it.

          I don't think you can clearly define any such thing.

          No one can.

          There is no trouble whatever defining alleles and other mysterious things that make us what we are.  

          And it is those last that tell us about biology and change the way we look at people so we don't see the world in black and white but the way it really is.

          Then we can join together to work on mutual problems bedeviling all mankind instead of spending so much time considering who we should hate and harm.

          Best,  Terry

          •  Not sure whom this is directed at. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bythesea

            I agree, in principle, with everything you've said. But, do you intend it as an admonition to the diarist?

            •  I don't admonish diarists or bloggers (0+ / 0-)

              I offer my own dubious opinions.

              A half-sister worked in an office where they were doing equal opportunity.

              When asked to list race, American Indian was a favorite with palefaces.

              So the division chief decided that visual inspection was the only way to do things.

              Funny thing about that.

              My half-sister was magically transformed from a breed to a paleface.  

              There are no poorer Americans than the First Americans.  I have no intention whatever of disputing the horrendous handicaps many live under and think it is a terrible blot on America that such a situation exists.

              But there are Indians and then there are Indians.  

              Another sister has a blue-eyed, blonde-haired American Indian business partner, who gets a hefty check every month from a casino.  

              What exactly does the business partner have in common with other Indians living in terrible poverty on reservations in the Dakotas?

              Dan Quayle reportedly got into Princeton on a minority set aside program.  How did minorities benefit from that?

              What white privilege do trailer trash in Appalachia enjoy?

              IMHO Shirley Sherrod is a powerful beacon of light in the pervasive darkness.  Ironic that such a grand lady should have become a symbol of racism.

              Best,  Terry

          •  I think you misinterpret (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            karmsy

            what I find puzzling about your initial comment.  I take no issue with the substance that I understand from it, but am confused by it's placement and expression.

            •  What Did I Misinterpret? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bythesea

              I don't disagree with the thrust of what the diarist is saying.

              I do have a problem with the common language that puts people in boxes where they surely don't belong.

              It is the usual problem of generalization.

              Never did think all that highly of generals. :-)

              Take care.

              Best,  Terry

              •  In pointing out the unfairness (0+ / 0-)

                in current appropriation of the language around "discrimination," how does the diarist generalize unfairly?

                •  Are people just black and white? (0+ / 0-)

                  Is there nothing more?

                  Meet The General:

                   title=

                  The General is not like other cats.  He never purrs.  It is so rare to hear him meow that it is rather startling when he does.  Seems almost kind of sissy for a general.  When he attacks your foot, you know what terrible pain is and can be very glad Dick Cheney didn't know about The General.

                  My wife thought it was because The General was in stir so long.  Black cats are the hardest to get adopted.

                  Possible but then one never knows. I think his fear of cars that approaches paranoia (a very good thing) may be accounted for by his being a stray picked up off the streets and maybe got hit one or more times.  

                  Fact is The General isn't really mean.  He is just playful.  I have no idea why he doesn't purr or meow.

                  The other black cat yowls day and night.  Has to have ice in his water or he would die of thirst.  

                  What the two cats have in common is that they are black.

                  Why must we concentrate on color to the exclusion of other things?

                  At a flea market we have done for about 30 years, a customer was asking where a dealer was.  "You know, the black guy," he asked.  I noticed the look on my wife's face was as startled as mine must have been.

                  When Carl showed up I noticed he was indeed dark skinned. Very dark.  I asked my wife why we never thought about.  "It didn't seem important," she said.

                  I knew there was some reason we had been together near on half a century.

                  Those Swedes are not as dumb as everybody says they are. :-)

                  I suppose it would be much more important if I were black.  I am appalled that people can't get jobs or rent or buy in some places and pay higher insurance because they are black.  

                  Something ought to be done about those things. But it won't get done talking about white privilege.

                  Who is looking out for us poor, stupid, bald, short, fat, snaggle-toothed, ugly, scruffy trailer trash with all our privileges?

                  Not Sharron Angle and the Tea Party.  She is one with Obama saying the country needs to save money on our retirement so rich people can live well on their government bounty.  Where is the color line there?

                  Best,  Terry

    •   foolishness, we are all one race. (6+ / 0-)

      I grew up with white privilege. Blonde. Blue-eyed.
      So what?
      Except, as I grew up, in a white school system, created by whites to keep the 'other' out.
      Then I learned, that it wasn't about how good we were, it was about 'them', and how 'bad' 'they were.
      Well, pardon me, but I didn't buy that crap.
      But even so, when I was first in a integrated school, and we were holding hands in a playground game, I thought the little girl next to me, holding my hand, her 'blackness' might rub off on me.
      Totally serious.
      How sick is that?

      •  Not True (0+ / 0-)

        Race has always been about biology from the time Darwin described races of butterflies and even plants.  Was Darwin then a racist or a scientist?

        Racism is twisting biology to be something entirely different than what it is.

        I thought the little girl next to me, holding my hand, her 'blackness' might rub off on me.
        Totally serious.
        How sick is that?

        Would you have thought that if we didn't have a racist society?

        An African-American man appearing on Nightline had been driven to drink because a genetic test found no evidence of Sub-Saharan ancestry.

        Was he African-American?

        Sure.  That is a cultural description.

        Was he black?

        That is a racist term if you think it is the same as African-American.

        Racism not only affirms such races as black and white but also denies biology that differentiates us all.

        We will never conquer cancer and many other diseases until we divine the biological underpinnings of individuals.

        We will have no peace until we stop seeing things in black and white.

        "I can see by your skin you are a racist," said the man in Chicago to my son.

        "Is my Nigerian wife a racist too?" asked my son.

        "The worst kind.  She is an African and has never been a slave," said the man in Chicago.

        The Hutus had little trouble telling the Tutsis so they could kill them.

        The Orangemen in Ireland had little trouble telling the Irish Catholics so they could kill them.

        What's the difference what we use to separate people so we can know to hate and hurt?

        Is that not what Republicans thrive on?

        Should we not be Democrats instead and know and appreciate the differences between individuals?

        Best,  Terry

  •  That was part of the opening argument (0+ / 0-)
    on affirmative action by one of the black speakers at the Uni-tea 'racism summit' in Philadelphia yesterday.
    You needed that job and you were the best qualified. But they had to give it to a minority, because of a racial quota. Is that really fair?

    Not verbatim, of course, but the essence. Absolutely. I may even be able to recall who said it if I noted it online elsewhere. I'll go check.

    This space available. Bad credit, no credit, no problem! Financing available!

    by Stand Strong on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:27:08 AM PDT

  •  Now when I see THE MASK OF FU MANCHU (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mayfly, princss6, FiredUpInCA

    I dont wonder anymore how white Americans could be such freakishly backward scaredycats in the early decades of the 20th century. Theyre just the same in the first decade of the 21st. Back then they didnt have FOX News. But they had the Hearst newspapers fulfilling the same function.
    "Scary Asian immigrants are gonna move into your neighborhood, take your job, and fuck your wife! Theyre all dope fiends and Tong criminals!" Nothing has changed here but the technology.

    •  all politics devolves to 19 C. politically (4+ / 0-)

      unconscious xenophobia

      With the post Civil War economy in decline by the 1870s, anti-Chinese animosity became politicized by labor leader Denis Kearney and his Workingman's Party as well as by California Governor John Bigler, both of whom blamed Chinese "coolies" for depressed wage levels. Another significant anti-Chinese group organized in California during this same era was the Supreme Order of Caucasians with some 64 chapters statewide.

      "...calling for a 5" deck gun is not parody. Not by a long shot." (gnaborretni)

      by annieli on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:30:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd like to know where Jim Webb is getting his (4+ / 0-)

    facts. I've read the "diversity policy" of the state university in my neighborhood, and I didn't see anything about qualified white workers being passed over by unqualified people of color. What I did see was a requirement for jobs to be presented to qualified applicants of color first until the workforce of the school resembled, percentage-wise, the local population. I'm so white I glow in the dark, and I don't have a problem with that scenario.
    So, does Sen. Webb believe himself, or his he pandering to the redder part of his constituency?

    "The kid in the combat gear is dead because the men in the suits failed."-me

    by porchdog1961 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:30:03 AM PDT

    •  Now, come on. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      porchdog1961

      So, does Sen. Webb believe himself, or his he pandering to the redder part of his constituency?

      I'm firmly of the belief that 99.99999% of politicians DON'T believe 99.999999999999% of what they say; I think "pandering" is the default setting for most of those jackasses.  Anything to keep the job, right?

      Then again, I'm a bit cynical.  

      (And I love your sig line.)

      America's military went to war. America went to the mall.

      by talismanlangley on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:44:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I just read Tim Wises' analysis, (0+ / 0-)

        and mostly answered my own question.
        You're right about most politicians. Sometimes I catch myself speaking like a teenage Boy Scout when I'm easily old enough to know better.

        "The kid in the combat gear is dead because the men in the suits failed."-me

        by porchdog1961 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:48:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Dinosaurian thinking from the GOPhers. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Krush, Greek Goddess

    Who knew!?

    Racism is universal, it is here in Ireland, all over Europe and the rest of the world. Unfortunately, like greed, it won't go away, it's etched too deeply in our psyche.

  •  this country has always been about (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, happymisanthropy

    pecking order and white privelge.

    From the most conservative state to the most liberal, it's there. I think the 80' and 90's represented a turning point, it produced a generation of people who didn't see things as quite so black and white, thanks to the social reformers of the 60's. And that freaked out the Republicans.

    It's scary how far the country has been dragged back.
    It's unreal, actually.

    Reality is not Passe. Hold The Media Accountable For Their Actions.

    by Krush on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:31:34 AM PDT

  •  These ppl are either oppressing or being oppresse (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, FiredUpInCA

    There is no middle ground in their world. Everything's either "black" or "white." These same ppl would take us back to the good ol' days of slavery and their Gunsmoke-type fantasy world, with a big heaping helping of fundamentalist rightwing "Christianity" thrown in just for the hell of it. The US would become a King James version of Iran, with a Palin-type in the WH, and Blackwater death squads would roam our streets, looking for gay people, Mexicans, Muslims, and Libruls.

  •  White People Will Never End Their Economic Misery (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    karmsy, annieli, OHknighty

    Until they get over their obsession with being the victim.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:34:01 AM PDT

  •  I think the GOP is playing (5+ / 0-)

    more from the Rudy Guiliani playbook, than from the Southern Strategy. Even in progressive NYC this stuff can be effective, I'm starting to see a clear trend between what they are doing now and what Rudy did in NYC.

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

    by dopper0189 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:34:07 AM PDT

  •  Change the composition of the Commission (0+ / 0-)

    Can the president appoint people to the commission?  Does he want the leave back assed conservatives spewing their reverse racism nonsense on the Civil Rights commission in keeping with his ridiculous bi-partisan fetish?

    "Sisters, brothers and the whities, Blacks and the crackers, Police and their backers, They're all political actors"--Curtis Mayfield

    by Cynic in seattle on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:34:59 AM PDT

  •  Great diary - victim and oppressor are two sides (0+ / 0-)

    of the same coin -- a weak, powerless viewpoint.

    These guys know how to manipulate and how to play both sides of that old victim/oppressor coin.  The thing is that they continually choose to disempower themselves by it.

    The key to sanity is to not focus on trying to change them or to have thoughts of what they are doing tie us up.

    The answer for us is to be empowered and to know and take action from the place that no one can take our power away from us.  That changes the way we think and that difference in our thinking helps us to have new solutions.

    I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination. ~Jimmy Dean

    by ParkRanger on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:39:41 AM PDT

  •  Just wait 20 more years (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leevank, Krush, conlakappa

    when no race/nationality will have any majority.  Can you imagine the reaction from these white bigots realize they are just anothre MINORITY !!!

    I hope I live that long !!!

    "Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal" -- Logical Song -- Rick Davies & Roger Hodgson

    by Over50Lib on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:40:39 AM PDT

    •  There's a Korean-owned grocery near me (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CarolDuhart, Mayfly

      It's one of my favorite places, in part because it has the best produce section in Baltimore, and in part because it's collection of customers and employees would exist pretty much nowhere in the world outside the United States.  There are large numbers of East Asians, of course, but also African-Americans, African immigrants, Latinos, South Asians, people from the Middle East, and plain vanilla European-Americans like myself who simply enjoy the place.

      You'd get many of those groups in some other places, but I think the only place you'd see them all together is here.  Some people feel threatened by that, although I can't understand that, because I feel liberated by it.  And FWIW, if nothing else, our wonderful mix of ethnicities has vastly improved our food choices from what they were when I was growing up in the 1950's and 1960's, when about the only "exotic" foods you could get were chop suey and chow mein.

      •  Ethnic food, yes! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leevank, swampyankee

        When I was a child in the 1940s South, my father (who was quite the sophisticate--having lived in NYC) was extolling the pleasures of eating pizza.

        I had never seen a pizza, so I asked him what it was.

        "It's a kind of tomato pie," he replied.

        I responded, "Ewww!"

        Resist corporate serfdom.

        by Mayfly on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:03:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The term "za sui" (杂碎) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mayfly
        1. The Rogers and Hammerstein musical Flower Drum Song features the song "Chop Suey," in which Chinese-American characters compare themselves to the dish.

        "...calling for a 5" deck gun is not parody. Not by a long shot." (gnaborretni)

        by annieli on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:11:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think there may be something similar (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leevank, Mayfly, annieli

        some places in Europe, like here where I live in Norway.

        My impression is that in the US you have several "black neighborhoods", "Hispanic neighborhoods" etc., while here in Norway we mostly have "immigrant neighborhoods" with people from all over the world, including ethnic Norwegians. In our capital (population 590 000) the pupils speak more than 125 different languages, and there can be up to 100 different languages spoken at a single school.

        That's the one thing you don't do, is engage in a land war in Afghanistan (Michael Steele)

        by Mariken on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:25:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are certainly a lot of immigrants in ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mariken

          some of the major European cities I've been in, but at least in my experience, most of the non-Europeans have been from Africa, the Middle East, or South or East Asia, with very few, if any, from Latin America (the Anglophone or Francophone Caribbean perhaps, but not Latin America).  I haven't been in Spain, so perhaps there's more of a Latino immigrant community there, but I haven't noticed any Latinos to speak of elsewhere in Europe.

          •  That´s true (0+ / 0-)

            In Norway it´s mostly Chileans, who came here as refugees during the Pinochet regimes.

            And in Spain, there´s a lot of them.

            That's the one thing you don't do, is engage in a land war in Afghanistan (Michael Steele)

            by Mariken on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 02:00:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Sounds like a supermarket in Montgomery (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blindyone

        County, that was even featured in the paper.  Like you said, the best and most reasonably priced produce is there.  As well as a polyglot/multi-ethnic clientele, including Orthodox Jews.  It's gone from being mostly Korean workers to a goodly number of Hispanic ones.

        No, it's never just been in the South.

        by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:02:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Same with this store about the employees (0+ / 0-)

          For those in the Baltimore area, this one is the H-Mart (formerly Han Ah Rheum) on Route 40 West.

        •  Is that the Chinese one in Rockville? (0+ / 0-)

          I had an interesting adventure a year or so ago during volunteering at the local seafarers center.  A Chinese crew, none of whom has visas, asked if I could get them a mah jongg set, as they had very little on board to do for recreation.  I inquired of a local mah jongg club, but they said that the American-style sets had some pieces that aren't in the Chinese sets, and that the crew probably wouldn't know what they were.

          There followed an effort to find a Chinese-style mah jongg set someplace within driving distance of Baltimore.  A Chinese-American friend could only suggest D.C.'s Chinatown, so in desperation, I asked at our local Chinese carry-out if anybody knew where I could find a Chinese-style mah jongg set, and the cook gave me the address of this Chinese grocery store in Rockville.  They actually have mah jongg sets in their own small briefcases.  When I got back to the ship with it, you would have thought it contained solid gold from the reactions of the crew.  They knew what it was just from the corner of the briefcase from the bag I had it in.

  •  400 years of white racism (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shanikka, OHknighty, David Kroning II

    it's about time they took a little back.  say...400 years or so worth.

  •  The sad thing is that many people who ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    think like this loudly proclaim their Christianity, but somehow manage to have missed one of the central messages of the New Testament, which is that there IS no "other."  Whether it was the Parable of the Good Samaritan, where the hero was a member of the most despised minority groups in the Palestine of Jesus time, or whether it's Colossians 3:11 (which was the text from which this morning's sermon at my church was taken, that message is clearly and repeatedly announced.  It's certainly much more clear than anything about the sexual issues on which so many right-wingers get hung up.

    The really need to read and understand some of those messages, for example, Colossians 3:11:

    Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

    That was to a church in Greece, where barbarians (which at the time simply meant non-Greeks) were looked upon with contempt, and where Scythians were viewed with particular loathing.

    In an era where many Americans, including way too many who loudly proclaim their "Christianity," look at many who are unlike themselves with contempt, that's a truly radical message.  Our minister said that at the recent Presbyterian Church(USA) convention, they were handing out t-shirts which were worn by large numbers of delegates of all races and national origins, in solidarity with Hispanics in Arizona, all that proclaimed a simple message:  "Do I look like an illegal alien?"

  •  Race-based affirmative action = unjust (0+ / 0-)

    You needed that job and you were the best qualified. But they had to give it to a minority, because of a racial quota. Is that really fair?

    That was the argument 20 years ago -- that undeserving minorities were benefiting from an unjust system that discriminated against whites.

    I take issue with this point.

    If you look at the big picture as one about "blacks" and "whites" then it's hard to disagree with you.  Generally speaking, whites are more advantaged than blacks.  But looking at the world as one populated by two competing racial groups -- black and whites -- is racist itself!

    Look at the individuals instead.  I concede that affirmative action might, on the whole, be more just than unjust.  But what would you tell a white man who grew up in poverty when a less-qualified upper-class black woman gets a "diversity" slot at a law firm and he remains unemployed?  There's no way to spin that.  It's racist (generally defined)  and unjust.

    We should move our affirmative action system from a race-based one to an individual-based one to ensure a true meritocracy.  There are 1,000 reasons why someone's résumé may not reflect their true potential.  Race is a big one.  Socioeconomic class is a bigger one in 21st Century America.  And there are countless others.  Let's look at the individual not the race.  That's all I'm saying.  There's nothing racist about that.

    The day may come, when the rest of the animal creation may acquire those rights which never could have been withholden from them but by the hand of tyranny.

    by Tetris on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:49:11 AM PDT

  •  It's a tactic to make the oppressor (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boston to Salem, annieli, OHknighty

    look like the victim.

    Hitler and Mussolini used it to good effect too.

  •  The lack of a class-based politics in the US (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy, Mariken

    and a language of class-based politics, guarantees that demagogues will be able to turn injuries of class into racial and cultural wedges that set the exploited against the exploited.  That the word class does not appear in this entire essay is a reflection and example of that problem.

    Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, the wrong lizard might get in. ~ Ford Prefect

    by ActivistGuy on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:51:37 AM PDT

  •  BTW, Mouse.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, Mayfly, conlakappa

    I wrote several years ago about the US Commission on Civil Rights and how Bush had basically appointed a bunch of nuts to serve on it.

    Yaki, along with one Native American person, are the only people who actually do anything.

  •  It's about time this racism gets noticed. (0+ / 0-)

    I never hear any reports about how black people burned down my entire community and then killed any white people who stayed in the area. They did it just because some white people had oil under their land. That is why white people in Kansas, Oklahoma, and north Texas have so much hatred for those black oppressors.

    If only there was a way to turn crushing debt, despair and horribly awkward interactions with people into lifelong happiness! - Eddie Pepitone

    by billpuppies on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:03:05 AM PDT

  •  I am a pale male, stale but still hale. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, Mayfly, David Kroning II

    I am not, I hope, neither racist nor reactionary, and certainly am not a Republican.  I wonder though, how often I am presumed to be one or all of these at first sight; and whether, because of that presumption, victimized; however trivially.

    In this essay, Angry Mouse has become a mighty mouse, without, I hope, MM's antipathy towards cats.

    •  How could these victimize you? (0+ / 0-)

      By thought?  I'm curious, do you know any but the pale socially?  Is it due to geography or circumstances?  And by socially I don't mean that guy you have lunch with from time to time at work.  I mean he's been to your house and you've been to his.

      No, it's never just been in the South.

      by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:09:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have an unpale wife, unpale kids and grandkids, (0+ / 0-)

        unpale nieces,nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews; unpale neighbors, friends, and former co-workers, including former bosses.

        Sometimes, at family get-togethers, everyone else gets chopsticks while I get a fork. It's hardly being refused as a tenant, or ordered to the back of bus, but it reinforces a perception: People assume things with insufficient facts.  Overall this isn't bad. We all descend mostly from folks who assumed the rustle of leaves came from a large predator, not merely the wind.

        Yet you thought it likely that I live within an unblack unfemale unyoung unqueer unhole.

        Consider yourself refudiated.

  •  When you play the game better (0+ / 0-)

    Aww, poor white people.  They created the game and found others can play the game better than them.  Even if you're on a commission, you can still be white trash, so to speak.

    So now they just keep trying to distract any way they know how, intimidation and fear.  Like your post says, hasn't changed, never will, until the white skin fades away along the mixture scale.

    Clayton Bigsby reminds me of the useless hate they try to continue. :-)

    "Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we can't eat money " -- Cree Proverb

    by pcl07 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:09:26 AM PDT

  •  Meet the new victims .............. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blindyone, Escamillo

    ....... Same as the old victims.  ;)

    This went on during the civil/women's rights era.  Loss of privilege became "victimhood".

    "The rights of the restaurant owner was infringed if they had to serve everyone".

    "Companies could no longer employ who they wished, and by extension, the best".

    "White males are losing jobs to women."

    It is loss of privilege.  Except it and treat like the stupidity it really is.  These "new victims" need to be treated like the clowns they are.  

    This thread is full of trolls, at least one of which is very likely a zombie. Zombies and trolls: Seen any elves lately?

    by ThAnswr on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:14:26 AM PDT

  •  White conservatives are having plenty of children (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mariken

    so what's the problem?

    For the elite there are no material problems, only PR problems. Time for a new elite.

    by Paul Goodman on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:17:41 AM PDT

    •  They might not get free status by being white. (0+ / 0-)

      It's a tragedy, I know.

    •  I enjoy asking them (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      whether their kids/grandkids all have jobs, all go to church, and all vote Republican.

      They don't like that.  At all.

      If I'm feeling unkind I ask when the Big Revival is going to happen when True Christianity will be Restored and whatnot.

      I realized a few years ago, after looking at it for a long time, that there's no there there in conservatives.  They're selective about the past and incompetent about the future.

  •  Oh No! First we had the 'Birthers' (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA

    now we have to deal with the 'Birth Dearthers.'

    How many levels of crazy does this game have?

    Conservative: Someone who'll steal your boots then tell you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

    by hatrabbit on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:21:15 AM PDT

  •  Got to say I'm disappointed in Jim Webb (4+ / 0-)

    He's one of my senators.  I actually supported his opponent, Harris somebody, in the primary because I-just-don't-trust ex-Republicans.  Looks as if I'm right.

    But <huge sigh> even Webb is better than Macaca, so I'll have to vote for him unless he does something even more egregious.

    Excellent diary, Angry Mouse!  Keep it up!

    Yes, I'm het, but I'm NOT a Mad Hetter!

    by Diana in NoVa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:23:12 AM PDT

    •  I held my nose and voted for him too. (5+ / 0-)

      But I didn't like him, and I didn't trust him. And given how we know he feels about women, I can't say I'm surprised by his WSJ piece. Disappointed, sure, but not surprised.

      But this should be, well, a teachable moment. Because this attitude is not merely the domain of the crazy right. And we on the left should be fighting that much harder to eliminate it from our own party.

  •  "mancession"? puhleese. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, Deoliver47, FiredUpInCA

    Conservatives are complaining about a whole shift in the balance of power in America, where women and minorities have all the advantages, and white men -- the real Americans -- can’t get a break.

    Angry Mouse...you have gotten me angry again. I go along quietly ignoring the brickbats thrown my way for 10 whole days (after this rant), trying to quietly regain my normal calm quiet demeanor and then I read one of your Front Page posts and I get angry ALL OVER AGAIN.

    Oh, by the way...thanks.

    Much of life is knowing what to Google
    (and blogging at BPI Campus)

    by JanF on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:26:37 AM PDT

  •  Lately, nothing has made my blood boil more than (6+ / 0-)

    the current Glenn Beckian attempt to co-opt the memory of the Civil Rights movement. The very idea of telling the same kind of people (and some of the EXACT same people) who turned firehoses and lynch mobs on the movement  that they're the real heirs of the Movement just shocks and horrifies me. It's an insult and perversion of the memory of those who fought and died for social justice.

    I never thought that this sort of left-is-right, up-is-down Orwellian disinformation could happen in these modern times, when access to the truth is so readily available. But over that last year or so, I've had to repeatedly try to convince people that no, Nazis were not leftist socialists and no, the Republicans weren't responsible for the Civil Rights Act. It's just depressing how much willful ignorance there is out there.

    •  These NOM people are as bassackwards: (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      a group calling themselves a civil rights one while attempting to take away/prevent rights?  I think these types lack dictionaries [we know The Beck does] and really don't get the meanings of words.  

      No, it's never just been in the South.

      by conlakappa on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:22:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am so tire of this nonsense (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    88kathy, blindyone, J Brunner Fan, a2nite

    Racism against black people has ended...tell that to all of the black families that have family members murdered by police officers, all of the black families who have women and children go missing and the police write up :NHI (no human involved) as far as crime.

    I don't know any white person who wants to be a black person,  and NO,  Oprah, Tiger and LeBron do not count.

  •  John Gibson is the King of Derailers (0+ / 0-)

    At a school shooting in Cleveland Jon opined he knew the shooter was white because a black kid would stop and reload. I knew the race of the person because Fox didn't immediately play the race card.They seen mostly black studednt and assumed the shooter was black. It was a Science/Honors program school.

    Think...It ain't illegal yet ! George Clinton

    by kid funkadelic on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:40:06 AM PDT

  •  post-racial society? (0+ / 0-)

    it is always people who obviously did not vote for Obama that claim his election as evidence that we live in a post-racial society.

  •  Another post ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NancyK, MrJersey

    ... berating the evils Republicans and conservatives are doing without asking the question: How can they get away with it?

    They can get away with it because the people who congregate on sites such as this have very little political power and the Democrats who do have political power let them.

    Democratic leaders should be making the points that Angry Mouse does in this post. They should be calling the Commission on Civil Rights what it is at this point, a farce, and fighting to get it back to its real purpose.

    Unless and until we have Democratic leaders willing to fight for what should be the Democratic agenda, conservatives and Republicans will keep pulling this country to the right – no matter how good it makes you feel to read posts such as this or look at pretty pictures of the president.

  •  It goes against human nature... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mariken

    This is a good article that has numerous valid points. However, we must recognize that it goes against human nature to give away privileges or advantages without getting something of value in return.

    I'm not saying it's fair to think that way, but it is how humans operate. From a survival standpoint, you just don't go giving away advantages.

    If blacks were the privileged ones, they would fight to keep white people from gaining ground. If women were the privileged ones, they'd fight to keep men from gaining ground. There isn't something evil inherent in white males. It's rather that it's inherent in any humans that are in a position of privilege.

  •  This is generally a great article and I agree (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mariken, annieli

    with most of it.  However, I read James Webb's article in the WSJ (thanks for the link) and I think he raises some points that deserve consideration.  I don't agree with everything he says, but this is one point he makes:

    Policy makers ignored such disparities within America's white cultures when, in advancing minority diversity programs, they treated whites as a fungible monolith.

    I believe, from things I've heard and read previously, that Sen. Webb's main concern is the poor whites of Appalachia.  Think back to some photographs you've seen from the Depression.  These people have virtually nothing in common with white elites from the Ivy Leagues whose "people" summer in the Hamptons.  Sen. Webb, imo, thinks the Appalachian poor have been left behind and forgotten and he wants help for them.  

    I remember an article in the NYT several years ago about the struggles of poor whites who've gotten out of the hills and graduated from good schools and are trying to adjust to their new lives.  One woman talked about ordering a club sandwich at a business lunch and then leaving it untouched because she had no idea how to deal with the toothpicks in the sandwich.  [Some may think this is trivial but I could relate to how she felt.]  

    Anyhow, Sen. Webb's proposal to eliminate affirmative action is the wrong idea, imo.  Rather the focus should change from race to socio-economic criteria.  As Pres. Obama has said, he doesn't think his daughters need affirmative action.  

    "It's a sight to see." Pres. Obama - Dec 8/09 and Jan 16/10

    by Observerinvancouver on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 11:55:35 AM PDT

  •  Forests and Trees (0+ / 0-)

    Webb's article was pathetic, and he did nothing to actually debunk the existence of "White Privilege". Which is too bad, cuz it's a load of bunk in the first place - as are many simplistic and reductionist models of human behavior being peddled as fact by activists posing as social scientists. Privilege is an innately politicized concept, and is a way of perpetuating the idea that racism is so embedded in our society as to render it corrupt.

    This is the real purpose of the idea of "privilege". If you think I'm whacked, ask an anthropologist instead of a sociologist, you'll be surprised at the answer.

    Also, I find it interesting that this author rejects facts that don't suit her narrative. Dismissing the New Black Panther voter intimidation charges as trumped up after the DOJ brought them to court before a highly politicized move set dismissed the charges, proves they weren't trumped up or why would the DOJ bring the case to court in the first place? Or the fact that de-facto when you use race to make hiring decisions, you are being racially discriminatory - period. Even if you are helping black people or other minorities, you are still discriminating. Most deceptive is her use of the throwaway quotes regarding women's income equality . When those data are adjusted for experience and time in the workforce, the differences virtually  disappear. This also, of course comports with the reality we all face. Do any of you know a single instance in your world where women are being paid less than men for the same job? I mean, in my 27 years of corporate life I've never seen it and I worked with many women. I mean if it's so endemic, wouldn't we notice it in our actual reality?

    This of course doesn't let conservatives off the hook from overreaching on this issue. However, the politicization of this issue, mostly by the Left to bash the right - while belonging to the party of Jim Crow is hard for me to swallow. And if you don't understand how the issue of diversity dominates so much government hiring, then you are simply ignorant of the reality.  

    Glenn Individual Sovereignity is the right of every human being.

    by ScribblerG on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:12:35 PM PDT

    •  joking, right? (0+ / 0-)

      How you pay a woman less...
      give her different title; same duties, but with less pay and/or no way to advance.

      I'm white...in my native country I would have to deal with class distinction.  Here I get to jump the queue.

  •  Speaking of victims..... (0+ / 0-)

    here's one tiny Jewish gal who looks for now to be mended.

    All Amy does is drink and smoke, she'll make 50. Easy.

    Her voice is different. More gravel. This is one helluva no-pretensions performance. She works the lyric for all its worth.

    Career criminals + Angry White Males + KKK wannabes + Personality Disorder delusionals + Pro-Life Christians =EQ= The GOPer Base

    by vets74 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:13:42 PM PDT

  •  Watch "The Color of Fear" (0+ / 0-)

    The Color of Fear IMDB

    If you have not heard about this movie then let me be the first one to recommend it to you.  My wife asked me to come to one of her graduate classes with her for an evening and the professor just happened to be showing this movie.  It changed my life.  It changed how I look at issues of race and color.  It will make you uncomfortable, but it will teach you a lot.  

    Falsehood has an infinity of combinations, but truth has only one mode of being. -- Jean Jacques Rousseau

    by MyFutureSelf on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 12:31:56 PM PDT

  •  No matter what they (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, a2nite

    say, there is no such thing called reverse racism. Period. How is that even possible when the side which is oppressed has no power what soever.

  •  There is a simple, flippant response to this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, PhilW, Matt Z

    affirmative action crap: George W. Bush - the most privilaged and entitled recipient of affirmative action on the face of the planet.

  •  "to preserve the status quo" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    That's not quite right -- NOMA etc don't want to merely preserve the status quo.

    They want to turn back the clock.

    They're not conservatives -- otherwise they'd be cool with changes that have already been accepted. They're reactionaries trying to create a revolution to the past.

    That's an essential difference.

  •  Kudos to you Sis AM. (0+ / 0-)

    Sorry I can only be here for a moment - but this was a great birthday present. ;)

    Keep on pushin'!

    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition" Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 01:49:55 PM PDT

  •  Does Fox News smell its own hole? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    Just wondering about that. Clearly there's a very real blind spot when it comes to one's own deep prejudices. Sometimes it's humorous, as when mid-westerners believe they have "no accent," while southerners do.

    Subconscious bigotries are the worst, as described by Eugene Robinson, that white men are assumed to have no distinctive ethnic heritage for purposes of being candidates for judicial office. Thus, any non-white candidate must be carefully screened for "bias."

    The power of "normal." That is what underlies Rupert Murdoch's multi-decade plot to re-define liberalism, the very foundation of the American system, as somehow a danger to America. Only massive daily doses of Rupert's Dementia can accomplish such a twisted purpose.

    Meanwhile, millions of duped Fox viewers continue to ape the dull lies of Limbaugh and Hannity and the other flying monkeys, and the only way to counter their bullshit is occasionally to swat them down like flies.

    That is why it is so important to get a handle on the proper rhetoric for countering right wing trash. Check out the speeches of Howard Dean and the words of senator Bernie Sanders. There are people that get it, and then there are people that get how to say it.

    It starts with 'E Pluribus, Unum.' Did you know you can measure a rich man's patriotism precisely by the percentage of his income he pays in taxes?

    Memo to Republicans: Playback is hell.

    by jimbo92107 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 02:31:37 PM PDT

  •  Normally I fnd many of your posts to be (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mariken

    over the top. However, there are parts that I agree with and don't agree with you here on.

    First of all I tend to agree with you on the "Demographic Winter" argument. Even as of now white are more than 80% of the population. I'm not convinced that minorities will be the majority by 2050, especially if their birth rates slow down. That is, as more minorities reach the middle, if past history of other groups is any indication, they will have less children.

    I think the fears of "demographic winter" are overblown. For while there are predictions for future based on current birth rates, there's no guarantee that those rates will stay the same. In fact I think that the birth rates for Hispanics and other minorities will fall over time. That seems to be the case for other groups who assimilated into the US.

    What I don't agree with you and Tim Wise is the indirect argument that whites are somehow all privileged in our society. First of all what I take exception to is that every white is somehow "responsible" for past racial injustices. Not all whites are descendants of KKK members, slave owners, and other people who violated the civil rights of minorities. I disagree with what seems to be the widespread denunciation that some of you express to white men.

    Where I think some liberals have lost many white men over the last 40 years is the implication that somehow they don't need help because "they're privileged". And I have to challenge that notion because, while there are affluent white people, there are many poor whites out there who don't seem to matter to many liberals and progressives. Some of you honestly believe that they are all "racist rednecks"." What I don't like is what seems to be the denunciation against all white men.

    I'll concede that poor whites may not suffer in terms of racial profiling. I'll concede even further that, in the criminal justice system, lower income whites may fare better in comparison to minorities. (However, I really wonder if money is the key variable. For I could see a very rich Black man with a great criminal attorney getting off with a lighter sentence than a poor white man with a public defender, though some of you might disagree).

    But I've said this before in previous threads. Taking the inequity in the criminal justice system aside, when I compare the poor white to the poor black, I see similarities. They are both likely to be inferior school systems that lack resources. They are both likely to lack "connections" that will enable them to attend the most prestigious of colleges, secure the right "internships", and eventually find the right jobs at the "prominent companies".

    Yet since 1968 I think too many liberals have totally forgotten about the poor white man. Although some of you may vehemently disagree with me I can understand why blue collar whites have turned against the Democrats over the last 42 years. They think that the Democratic Party is either indifferent; or, even worse, that it is hostile to their needs altogether. Put yourself in their issues. What specific programs has the Democratic Party focused on that addresses their needs? I can't think of many.

    I have never supported a race-based form of affirmative actions. I've also never supported legacy admissions at universities, which seem to have always unjustly favored the children of affluent alumni. I don't know why there couldn't have been an economics-based form of affirmative action that would have helped all low-income people of all races.

    Finally I'll leave you with this thought. Did you know that the biggest supporters of affirmative action early were on the Republicans? The Philadelphia Plan, which was one of the first set-aside programs, was implemented by Arthur Fletcher. Arthur Fletcher was a Republican. Even many Republicans would later be at odds with him over that issue, history considers him the "father of Affirmative Action".

    And Affirmative Action did what it was supposed to do. It started the gradual bleeding of blue collar whites from the Democratic Party. Although the trend really accelerated in the 1990s and early 200s, as Obama's coalition included more white collar voters, the GOP's goal of dividing low income voters on racial grounds worked.

    •  I'm not sure why talking about Arthur (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mariken

      Fletcher, who was the head of the United Negro College Fund and was opposed by many of his fellow Republicans, is a good way to destroy the concept of Affirmative Action.

      In my opinion, Affirmative Action did do what it was supposed to do- provide opportunities for qualified people of color and... many, many White women.

      There is a solid Black middle class right now, who owe their status to Affirmative Action... either through the hard work of their parents, or themselves, to take advantage of the opportunities that they encountered along the way.

      Connected White folks have taken advantage of opportunities and called it networking.

      Why can't they say that hate is 10 zillion light years away- Stevie Wonder

      by blindyone on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 05:03:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think you're missing the point on most of this (0+ / 0-)

      The question isn't whether a "demographic winter" is going to happen. The question is, so what? Why does it matter so much, to people who proclaim that they're "past race, it's the left who are obsessed with race", if whites drop from a majority to merely a plurality in 40 years? Why do they fearmonger and fundraise off of it?

      And it's a straw man attack to say that liberals claim that poor whites don't need help. The centerpiece of liberal social advocacy is aiding ALL poor and disadvantaged people. The phenomenally successful liberal social programs such as Social Security and Medicaid are color-blind; they were designed to aid the most vulnerable among us.

      On the other hand, Republicans don't give two shits about the poor, black or white.

  •  this will all be so much easier when (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Themistoclea

    we are all a shade of light brown.

    Whats that gonna take, 150 years or so?

  •  excellent work (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Themistoclea

    This is an issue that has been bugging me for years (yes, I'm a white male, but Jewish and gay so I never had a great sense of privilege and life generally doesn't make me feel as if I'm a victim unless it's something like Prop. 8) and you explain it exceptionally well.  Thanks, Kaili!

  •  You needed that job and you were the best ....... (0+ / 0-)

    qualified. But they had to give it to a ..., because .... Is that really fair?

  •  They fear the Muslims too. My neighbor lend me a (0+ / 0-)

    cd by C. Bridget. T hey fear Muslims will surpass white Christians by having more babies. It even had a pie chart and showed how the population would double and triple in the US. I don't know what is more frightening; their racism or that my neighbors are Teabaggers.

    ""If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." JAMES MADISON

    by isabvella on Sun Aug 01, 2010 at 10:28:08 PM PDT

  •  I guess this is why I'll never be a Republican (0+ / 0-)
    See, diversity excites me.  I'm not afraid of the "other".  It's really boring living in a cookie-cutter world where everyone looks the same, talks the same, eats the same, dances the same, thinks the same, went to the same schools, worships the same, listens to the same music, and so forth.

    Give me a Technicolor world any day.

    And far from having to fight more over the scraps, I think we'll find when we're all in it together, there's a lot more to go around.

    That's what the powerful are afraid of, of course - as you so eloquently put it, AM.  Thanks.

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