RKBA is a DKos group of second amendment supporters who also have progressive and liberal values. We don't think that being a liberal means one has to be anti-gun. Some of us are extreme in our second amendment views (no licensing, no restrictions on small arms) and some of us are more moderate (licensing, restrictions on small arms.) Moderate or extreme, we hold one common belief: more gun control equals lost elections. We don't want a repeat of 1994. We are an inclusive group: if you see the Second Amendment as safeguarding our right to keep and bear arms individually, then come join us in our conversation. If you are against the right to keep and bear arms, come join our conversation. We look forward to seeing you, as long as you engage in a civil discussion. RKBA stands for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
Shadan7 has Mexico on his mind:
On Wednesday, NPR did a piece about the growing market for armoring cars in the midst of their drug wars. You can find it here. Here's the intro:
"More than 3 1/2 years after President Felipe Calderon declared war on Mexico's drug cartels, the pace of killings has increased and 2010 is on track to be the deadliest yet in a campaign that has already claimed as many as 28,000 lives."
There are those who blame those deaths on the US 2nd Amendment, and our love of guns north of the border. The argument is that the war is being fought with guns purchased in the US and transported south.
28,000 people killed so far is a huge number. And there is little doubt that some of the guns being used are coming from illegal purchases in the US, and then shipped south.
But if it were just the fact that there are guns around, precipitating these murders, wouldn't it make sense that we would see the same thing happening here in the US, the source of the guns? But we're not. You don't see a thriving market here for bulletproofing cars. Yet there are tens of millions more guns available in the US.
The problem isn't the guns. It's the money that comes with the US "war on (some) drugs" which has generated an actual war south of our border.
OMwordTHRUdaFOG asks "Do ya think this guy was on the Terra no fly/buy watch list" ?
link
Nine years ago, an Algerian man charged in the failed "millennium plot" to blow up Los Angeles International Airport took an unusual step: he pleaded guilty in Federal District Court in Manhattan and became the rare convicted Islamic terrorist to cooperate with the United States government. Facing a possible sentence of more than 100 years in prison, the Algerian, Abdel Ghani Meskini, testified as a prosecution witness in two trials and helped to convict two other conspirators in the plot, which was to coincide with the millennium celebrations in the United States. With the government endorsing leniency, Mr. Meskini received a short sentence, and in 2005 he was released.........Mr. Meskini, 42, was recently rearrested, accused of violating the terms of his release by committing new offenses. The authorities say that in 2007 he possessed a handgun and that last year he asked people to buy him an AK-47 assault rifle.
1911s had this comment in a diary yesterday (click on link for comment, which contains more links):
You provide as a link the brady campaign, which is the equal and polar opposite to the NRA. Both revel in extremism, and my opinion is neither cares about anything beyond their own perceived greatness of cause.
You quoted The NEJoM claiming CDC data, so let's look at CDC data okay? We can see the final tally for 2008 now: ~31K persons died from firearm injuries (pdf - sorry). Search the page for "firearm" or scroll down to the top of page 19. There you will see that the majority of those 31K were suicides. 55.6% ... queue up the gun grabbers saying "they suicided because guns make it easy So you're down to around 15K including men women and children. OMG think of the children!
Now scroll up a wee bit. Page 18 puts the number of deaths by poison at ~40K with ~16% suicides. Wanna worry about the children? Worry about accidental poisoning! (Not that the CDC report breaks it out by age - sorry, not my data.)
Now let's look at that crappy quote. The first paragraph starts with "CDC" and the second implies taking guns from folks on the right side of the law prevents injuries, but the actual real CDC says no such thing.
During 2000--2002, the Task Force on Community Preventive Services (the Task Force), an independent nonfederal task force, conducted a systematic review of scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of firearms laws in preventing violence, including violent crimes, suicide, and unintentional injury. The following laws were evaluated: bans on specified firearms or ammunition, restrictions on firearm acquisition, waiting periods for firearm acquisition, firearm registration and licensing of firearm owners, "shall issue" concealed weapon carry laws, child access prevention laws, zero tolerance laws for firearms in schools, and combinations of firearms laws. The Task Force found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent outcomes. (Note that insufficient evidence to determine effectiveness should not be interpreted as evidence of ineffectiveness.) This report briefly describes how the reviews were conducted, summarizes the Task Force findings, and provides information regarding needs for future research.
That's the CDC saying there is no correlation between gun laws and violence.
There is no statistically provable link between more or less firearms resulting in more or less violent crime. None. In either direction. Anecdotaly I'll note that the parts of this nation with the worst restriction of the right to keep and bear has a reputation for the worst violent crime. Chicago, NY, DC ... and at the same time I'll note that there is no correlation even though the honorable citizen can't legally shoot back.
So stop the stupid "think of the children" line. It cheapens whatever merit there might be to any sort of restriction on any rights. After all, that's the same line the anti-abortion freaks use.
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Britain's Telegraph newspaper headline: "UK is violent crime capital of Europe" of July 2, 2009
A very pertinent bit:
The figures were sourced from Eurostat, the European Commission's database of statistics. They are gathered using official
sources in the countries concerned such as the national statistics office, the national prison administration, ministries of the interior
or justice, and police.
A breakdown of the statistics, which were compiled into league tables by the Conservatives, revealed that violent crime in the UK
had increased from 652,974 offences in 1998 to more than 1.15 million crimes in 2007.
It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.
Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.
By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population.
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
And isn't it worthwhile to note the related articles listed on that page:
Police failing on violent crime: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
Rural UK suffering recession crime: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
Tax violent video games to beat knife crime, says Damilola Taylor's father: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
One million users make Britain cocaine capital of Europe - UN report: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
Scotland's murder rate is fastest-rising in Western Europe, UN finds: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...
Gee, are we really sure that the grass is greener on the other side?
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Tales from a Land Of Almost No Guns...
(I'll note that these titles in bold are not crafted by me.)
Man, 94, stabbed to death in his home as he battled intruder trying to steal his TV:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
There is a picture of smiling William Humphrey, the deceased.
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Have-a-go hero stabbed to death after chasing muggers who stole woman's bag:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
There is a picture of heroic Mr Singh and pics of police at the scene.
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Help, they're trying to kick my head in: Victim's desperate 999 call as killers pounce in the street:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
All for a cell phone and designer shoes... Jeez.
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Care worker stabbed to death by 'Samurai' ex-boyfriend despite begging police for protection:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
Our own dysfunctional laws about police protection are too similar in end effect, if not reasoning, for a simple comment here. But doesn't she look happy in that pic of her at her brother's wedding?
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Baby spattered with blood after father is stabbed 11 times in the face by Rolex robbers who burst into their home:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
Have you noticed that Britain's news media generally kicks our news stations asses up and down the playground? Well, this article doesn't pull punches. Prepare any gentle sensitivities you may have against violence for an image of what happens to the victims, what this dad will have to deal with from now on. I wish his wife could have armed herself when she heard yelling, instead of hiding and hoping the non-gun violence would disappear.
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Widow, 85, murdered after burglar broke every bone in her face before stealing just £350:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
No gun. He used a bottle. And to quote the article "...and tried to set fire to her body despite knowing she was still alive."
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Murdered taxi driver was stabbed in the head and left by side of the road:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
Reports were that his wife was expecting his 4th child in just a few months.
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But wait a minute! Aren't we all supposed to believe it when we're told that if we all just give up our guns then all the violence will go away? After all, since it's guns that kill people, if we get rid of them then people will stop dying, right? RIGHT?!?!
Pardon me, dear diary reader, for the sarcasm and any heavy-handedness. But how do you expect me to feel? I'm fired up with outrage, that's how I feel. People really expect me to believe that guns are the source of violence, when gun-prohibited Britain is wracked by rampant violent knife crime? Am I seriously expected to swallow that?
If there's one thing I'd like everyone to take from this, it's that it is the person that is doing the violence - not the object. The criminally violent person will perform a violent act upon a victim with whatever tool they can grasp. You've got seven horrific examples of that just upscreen, and let's note that this is still after carrying knives longer than 3 inches in a public place is prohibited. So when guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns. And when long knives are prohibited in public, violent outlaws still attack other people with long knives. The proof is in the pudding.
Jay. From PA.
TG's Food for Thought:
Since President Obama has not, in fact, taken our guns away, I wonder if the NRA will return all of those donations they got on that basis?
I'm thinking no. Of course, they're just going to say that he's not going to do it "yet" OR the reason he hasn't is their eternal vigilance...KV