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Where do I start on this?

Those of us who have legitimate criticisms about the Democrats and the party leadership including (god forbid) President Obama are constantly berated with dire predictions that the Republicans will take over and we certainly don't want that do we?

My response to that is "What's the difference?" Seriously. What the hell is the difference. From my point of view there isn't much of one and "We suck less than the Republicans do" isn't exactly an inspiring campaign message.

I'm one of the resident contrarians here on DKos. I'm also a gay man. Early in the 2008 primaries I was an Obama supporter. I defended him during some of the early missteps in his campaign. Why? Because I felt he represented a real change. A real change from business as usual politics. Race certainly was a part of it. I felt as a man of African descent he would understand what it felt like to be discriminated against. I know he's tasted the foul, disgusting, bitter taste of discrimination. Combine that with his reputation as a Constitutional Scholar, I really thought he would be a champion for equality. I contributed to his campaign.

Then the McClurkin fiasco happened. I won't rehash it here, you can look at my previous diary on that. Obama lost me at that point and while I voted for him in the general, I am not an ardent fan as many around here are.

I'm going to back up a bit and give you some of my background.

I've been a Democrat for as long as I've been able to vote, which has been since 1982. My mother was a strong Democrat in what is now one of the reddest states in the country, Oklahoma. She was a local Democratic leader, and had she been a man she probably would have run for local or state office, but it still wasn't really possible for a housewife to run for political office in the 60's and 70's. She worked hard to get Democrats elected at every level from the local school board and city council to POTUS. She was important enough that she could pick up the phone and speak directly to Democratic powerhouses like Speakers of the House Carl Albert and Tip O'Neil. She knew them on a first name basis. Carl Albert used to visit our home during breaks. She was on the campaign staffs of Glenn English, David Boren, George McGovern and Jimmy Carter. I remember seeing her being interviewed on TV when she went to the Democratic conventions as a state delegate. She was a huge part of why Democrats dominated Oklahoma politics during the 60's and 70's. I remember spending entire summers assembling yard signs and helping to distribute them. Because of her I was a hard core veteran of Democratic politics before I reached the age of 10. I cried when McGovern lost and Nixon was elected in 1972. When Nixon resigned in 1974 we had a party.

My dad thought she was nuts. He was pretty much apolitical and voted Democratic to make my mom happy. I'm pretty sure he votes Republican now that she's no longer with us even though it goes against his own best interests.

The 1980s brought us Ronald Reagan and it was mom's last campaign as she had been diagnosed with MS. She worked hard to get Jimmy Carter re-elected and it just didn't work. She never ever said a bad thing about Ted Kennedy running against Carter in the primary. She never blamed him for Carter losing even though we know Kennedy severely damaged Carter during that brutal primary. The 80's saw the evisceration of the Democratic Party. Even though the Democrats were able to maintain majorities in Congress throughout Reagan's and even Bush's presidencies, the fire was gone. The Democrats went from being an almost unstoppable force to what they are today.

The 80's were largely a blur. I graduated from high school and joined the USMC. Mom made sure I received an absentee ballot for every election, even the little nothing local elections. By then most of the city and county political offices became non-partisan, but I knew who the Democrats were because I had grown up working next to them in countless campaigns. I remember being strongly encouraged to vote for Reagan while I was in the military. We were constantly being told he would be better for us than Mondale would be. I still voted for Mondale.

I came out "officially" on my 23rd birthday in 1986. By then I had been out of the USMC for 6 months. It was a milestone and not long afterward I became political. I had a very hard time understanding the Democrats I saw around me. They were lifeless and defeated. They couldn't get anything right. Oklahoma shifted from being solidly Democratic to solidly Republican. I was unable to find steady work so it was difficult to be deeply involved in politics. I moved out of Oklahoma in the summer of 1988. I voted for Dukakis that year knowing he had no chance of winning. It was what I called "the battle of the eggheads" both Bush and Dukakis were intellectuals. Bush had Reagan and the now well oiled Republican nastiness machine behind him and that's all he needed to trounce Dukakis.

In 1988, a new face appeared in Democratic politics. It was a young-ish governor from Arkansas named Bill Clinton. There was some speculation he would join the 1988 presidential primary but he held off. Instead he waited until 1992. When he finally won the nomination, the Democratic party started to come back to life. There was a slim chance the young charismatic Clinton could oust the incumbent George H.W. Bush. I was too busy earning a living traveling around the country selling carnival food out of a trailer so I didn't pay much attention to what was going on, however when I got home I noticed for the first time a national candidate was asking me for my support and vote as a gay man. Clinton made promises like ending discrimination against gays in the military and for the first time the words "gay marriage" were spoken. Enthralled like the rest of my gay brethren, I contributed to and voted for Clinton and he won but barely only due to Perot siphoning votes off of Bush.

Two months later I was driving a van loaded with musical instruments from Ft. Lauderdale Florida to Washington, D.C. as part of the first openly LGBT group to ever be officially invited to a presidential inauguration. I still have the jacket we were given as part of our uniform. We froze our asses off, but there I was one of 15 saxophone players. Clinton was out of the limo, walking up Pennsylvania Ave. He stopped in front of us and gave us the biggest grin and a thumbs up. Three months later I was back in D.C. at the 1993 March on Washington, except it was more of a celebration than a protest. Later that year we got "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," first as an executive order then it was added to the Defense Authorization Bill. Clinton signed it into law.

I forgave him. Politics. In September of 1996 Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act into law. To say I was furious would be putting it mildly. He didn't really have a choice as it passed by veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress, but he should have vetoed it anyway on principle. We were told to wait because even though Democrats were gay friendly as a part of the platform, not everyone was on board and he had to sign it in order to be re-elected, and that hopefully it would be repealed soon. We bought it and voted for him again that November. It was either him or Bob Dole...

I voted for Gore in 2000, Kerry in 2004, and Obama in 2008.

Now.. that's my Democratic cred. It spans roughly 40 years, longer than many of Obama's most ardent cheerleaders have been on the planet. I think I've earned the right to be critical and say my piece.

Obama campaigned in 2008 on the promise of change. Not small incremental change, BIG change. BOLD change. He won a hard fought primary and came out of it looking cool, calm, and collected. The penultimate cool black man. "I Got This" was a common caption of pictures of Obama during the run up to the General election. It was 1992 all over again in many many ways. Even though Obama went on LOGO and said he'd be a fierce advocate for LGBT equality if we would just vote for him, in practice he's done almost the same thing Bill Clinton did after he was elected, but maybe not quite as bad. At least he hasn't signed any new anti-gay legislation into law. The Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act is a good thing, but he can't really claim credit for it because Democrats in Congress had been trying to push that one through for years. His only contribution was signing it into law after it was passed.

DOMA was challenged in federal court. The Obama DOJ (Justice is part of the executive branch) fought the challenge using anti-gay talking points straight out of the GOP playbook, going as far as to push the discredited comparison between gays and pedophiles. Contrary to popular belief a) the administration does NOT have to defend every law Congress passes in court and b) even if it did, they could have refrained from using that specific discredited argument.

Obama made a promise to the LGBT community that DADT would be repealed by the end of the year. The House of Representatives has already passed a bill doing just that, but it's held up in the Senate, where of course all good legislation goes to die. Why? Because in April Obama backtracked on that promise and urged the Senate NOT to take it up until after a study was completed in early December.

Now a federal judge has declared the CA state constitutional amendment passed through Proposition 8 is unconstitutional. Within hours Obama is quoted as saying as a Christian he still believes a marriage is between a man and a woman and that he supports Civil Unions but not full marriage rights.

Now, here's where my sense of irony kicks in. In spite of ALL of that I'm still expected to not only vote for Democrats but to campaign my ass off as if my life depended on it or else the Republicans are going to win and boy won't life suck if that happens.

From my point of view it doesn't much matter to me as a gay man. Sure the Republicans aren't going to vote in favor of equality, but the Democrats haven't exactly been turning themselves inside out to do it either. If I'm so damned important that Democrats can't win without my vote and the votes of the rest of the LGBT community, then why the hell do they keep treating our issues like they aren't important and keep pushing us to the back of the line or worse yet under the wheels of the bus?

If the LGBT vote is so damned important to Democrats then why the hell don't they act like it? "We Suck Less Than The Republicans Do" is not a good message. I'm sick of suck. If you want my money, my time, and my vote, then EARN it! You are not entitled to it. I've done my part for you it's your turn to do something for me!

Originally posted to Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:24 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip if you must (8+ / 0-)

    I am sick of suck. I'm tired of being told how friggin' important I am as if I single handedly will hand over control of the world to the GOP only to be shown how little Democrats really care about me or my issues.

    Sure life will suck if the Republicans are back in power. The question is, will I really know the difference?

    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

    by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:24:01 AM PDT

    •  yes, you will know the difference. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flhiii88

      although, you might get a bigger tax cut.

      black kos,wglb,c&j,: free from emo poutrage

      by terrypinder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:33:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I dunno (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ruff Limblog

        Still looks like the Republicans are firmly in control from where I'm sitting. I mean they are in the minority, but they haven't lost their ability to steer the debate or get the Democrats to abandon their principles. All they have to do is start yelling "LIBERAL! LIBERAL!" and the Democrats go all squishy.

        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

        by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:15:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, they think they can get elected doing that (0+ / 0-)

          Keeping them out of there will help change that view.

          •  The Republicans know (0+ / 0-)

            that if they can stymie the Democrats and keep them from being able to govern it will cause people to become less than enthusiastic about supporting Democrats in the midterms and in the next presidential election.

            Our Democratic leadership is playing right along with them and it will spell their demise in November.

            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:31:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I think they've (Dems) accomplished quite a bit (0+ / 0-)

          lot of disappointments, sure, but lots of wins too. And this is with the Party of No.

          I realize some of the wins aren't good enough for some Progressives. I'd give 'em an 83/84 out of 100. (roughly a B/B-)

          I understand your frustration but the alternative is much worse even if you think it isn't. I am certain you've noted the psycotic religious loons that are out for blood in the GOP? Imagine a President Huckabee (I won't say Palin; she's got no chance). He's a lot smarter than Palin but their beliefs are identical. At some point the GOP will moderate but that point isn't now.

          black kos,wglb,c&j,: free from emo poutrage

          by terrypinder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:52:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The DC Leadersheep See-Saw (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cali Techie

            We are supposed to work our asses off for Dems? who don't deliver on their promises...

            See- You'd BETTER vote for Dems? even if we betray you because Dems? are somehow better.

            Saw- Gosh! The base hates many of us, so we'd better try being polite once.

            How's the see-saw working? Scott Brown is sitting in Ted Kennedy's seat.

            ~Ruff

            •  And you like Scott Brown sitting there? (0+ / 0-)

              You like the fact that he weakened financial reform? You like that he stood in the way of unemployment benefits?
              Really?

              •  Not The Point (0+ / 0-)

                The DC Dem? Leadersheep worked hard to get Scott Brown elected in Teddy's seat.

                The only reason a wimp like Harry Reid is not going to join Dashle in the ex-Senator's club is because of Sharon Angle as his opponent.

                If the Repugs had picked someone only as lame as Thune, Reid would be gone.

                ~Ruff

                •  No, Martha Coakley didn't work hard. (0+ / 0-)

                  That got Scott Brown elected.

                  The leadership had to try and save her ass after the many times she refused help when she realized she was getting her ass handed to her by that blowdried twit.

                  But hey, you seem happy with Scott as Senator Ruff.

                  •  Nice Dem Talking Point - HOWEVER (0+ / 0-)

                    Folks just like you were all over DailyKos howling about how we ALL just HAD to work our butts off for somebody who you just said didn't work her butt off.

                    Lots of people did as they were ordered and it did not save her lazy ass anyway.

                    If a candidate is a waste of time and money, they are a waste of time and money.

                    Get a clue.

                    ~Ruff

                    •  I knew she was terrible (0+ / 0-)

                      I also knew Scott Brown would probably have to be the 60th vote, so I rather would have had Coakley in that position than Brown. But you don't mind Brown, so I wouldn't expect you to care about that.

                      •  How I Feel About Brown Is Irrelevant (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Cali Techie

                        The Dems? can no longer expect the base to be an ATM for turncoats.

                        Nor can they expect dramatic turnouts for non-dramatic results.

                        ~Ruff

                        •  Actually, no it isn't (0+ / 0-)

                          You seem to take great pride that Scott Brown was elected. You seem to be so happy that this man represents Massachusetts. You were willing to be so right that the U.S. as a whole has to suffer with him in there.

                          Take a bow Ruff. You deserve it.

                          •  I don't think anyone is proud (0+ / 0-)

                            Scott Brown was elected.

                            This is part of the problem with the ardent supporters. You take any criticism and turn it around to make it seem like the person criticizing is a supporter of the other side, which isn't true at all.

                            The 2010 election is an accountability moment for the Democrats and I can tell you that it's not going to go well if all the Democrats can offer is "We suck less than the Republicans do." Sucking less means you still suck. The lesser of two evils is still evil, not good.

                            Those of us who are critical want the party to raise its sights and strive for better and not settle for mediocrity.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:57:06 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

            •  well, get to work on primaries for everyone (0+ / 0-)

              then. :)

              black kos,wglb,c&j,: free from emo poutrage

              by terrypinder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:23:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Insomnia is a cruel bitch (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KVoimakas, Dom9000

    I'll be back later to check in. It's not a hit and run.

    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

    by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:25:11 AM PDT

    •  No it doesn't (0+ / 0-)

      Obama contributed nothing more than his signature to the bill. If Pelosi hadn't pushed it it wouldn't have happened.

      At any rate it's not enough. You can't be a strong advocate and then say you're against full equality.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:38:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The last I checked. Pelosi was a Democrat (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Loquatrix, flhiii88

        If you're going to say that there is no significant difference between Democrats and Republicans, then its no good to dismiss Obama signing it by saying that Pelosi pushed it through, as they are both Democrats. No Republican would have pushed for this.

        The two party system does lead to one party being awful, and one being simply not as bad, essentially saying "Surely you don't want Mr. Jones back." But The GOP really is that bad.

        The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

        by A Citizen on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:20:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes she is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ruff Limblog

          The only one with a spine. At least she fought for the public option.

          It took more than 10 years to get the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act passed. It should have passed immediately back when it was introduced when Bill Clinton was President.

          We took steps backward during the last Democratic administration with DADT and DOMA, but I should just forget that. Water under the bridge even though the current administration is dragging its feet in repealing both of those measures.

          It's perfectly okay with you that I'm a second class citizen and a first class taxpayer in this country. It doesn't matter as long as the Democrats can stay in charge.

          Got news for ya. The Republicans are going to regain control at some point in the future anyway. Democrats have to do more than maintain the status quo if we have any chance of keeping them from doing any more damage. Instead what I see is butt covering and excuses.

          If the Democrats aren't going to save us from the Republicans, what is the point of keeping them in office?

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:31:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Pelosi's job is at stake (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal, flhiii88

            2010 is a congressional election. Whether Nancy Pelosi remains speaker is a 50-50 bet. You admire her. You think John Boehner will be equally good?

            •  THANK YOU!!!!! He's so adamantly against Obama (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal

              because he says that he only signed the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Law, that he's punishing the person who actually helped put that up to a vote, Speaker Nancy Pelosi. He's punishing her, not the President. President Obama will still be President in January 2011, its Nancy's job we have to worry about here. She's trying to help you, but your anger is so clouded, that you are killing her chances of helping you.

              •  Criticism is not being against (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Ruff Limblog

                In fact I'm angry and criticizing because I give a damn, but you're so blinded by partisanship you can't or won't see that.

                And I'm not punishing anyone.

                The electorate, you know the voters.. they will be the ones doing the punishing. I'm but an insignificant player in this game.

                The attitude you have in the above comment - the hubris and the sense that somehow even though Democrats haven't delivered on their promises (this really does go far beyond LGBT issues) voters should just go vote for Democrats anyway even though their lives have not really improved since the Democrats took control of the government is really galling.

                When the Democrats lose a significant number of seats and maybe even control of one or both houses of Congress you're going to blame the wrong people, which of course won't exactly go very far in getting them to see things your way.

                When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:22:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well, you are one of the electorate (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mallyroyal

                  and you are hellbent on punishment. You call me partisan, but you are saying you won't vote because the Democrats won't be as partisan as you would like. You believe that Republicans aren't worse. I don't know why, they hate you as much as they hate me. They will never help you and the fact that you believe that you progressed under a Republican because the Court sided with your side during the Bush years is stupid. There are two ways to see our side, one way is to listen to us now, or 16 years from now, when you have been beaten down enough by Republican policy. I guess you like that second option.

                  •  The only thing I'm hellbent on (0+ / 0-)

                    is sounding an alarm.

                    You're taking that alarm as a threat. It is not, it's a wake up call.

                    I didn't say I wasn't going to vote. You're reading more into it than what I'm saying.

                    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                    by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:41:09 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  once again you don't address the (0+ / 0-)

                  point made to you.  you're advocating that having nancy there makes no difference when you just admitted it does.  how do you reconcile that?

                  What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                  by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:34:04 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What are you talking about (0+ / 0-)

                    Nancy can only influence one part of one branch of the government. She stands up and fights for what she believes in, usually in vain because the Senate and the White House don't.

                    So in some ways yes she makes a difference, but that difference is moot if the rest of the Democratic establishment isn't there.

                    And yes I'm partisan. I'm extremely partisan, but I'm not so blinded by it that I don't see the cliff we're about to go over.

                    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                    by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:43:50 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  well those ways she makes a difference (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      GOVCHRIS1988

                      vanish altogether when "speaker bohner" becomes a reality.  you ignore that at YOUR peril, not the peril of the congresspeople.  thats what everyone's trying to tell you.  just because you IMAGINE things can't get worse, doesn't mean you're at all correct in that assessment.

                      What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                      by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:03:35 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You're back to the same ineffective argument (0+ / 0-)

                        Y'all are like a bunch of parrots. I'm telling you it's not working.

                        We suck less than the Republicans do is not a good campaign message. Democrats need to show where they've fought for Democratic principles and they can't because they haven't.

                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:35:26 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think so (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              but if the Democrats don't pull their heads out of their asses and deliver some of that change that was promised in '08 they're going to have a harder time delivering anything in '11, and that's going to make it very difficult for Obama to get re-elected.

              Y'all seem to have a hard time seeing that.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:17:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But they did deliver some of those 08 changes (0+ / 0-)

                http://www.politifact.com/...

                Either they are kept, stalled, or in the works, but they are being made.

                Its your stuff you're upset about that didn't get passed fast enough.

                •  Yeah.. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ruff Limblog

                  I see one of the promises delivered on was getting his kids a dog. That's sweet and nice. I like Bo actually, but it has no bearing on anyone's life except the Obamas' and the White House staff who have to clean up after him.

                  If Obama said he'd address of LGBT issues in the second half of his first term or in his second term, I'd be OK with that, but he didn't. He promised a full repeal of DADT by the end of this year and then reneged on that promise.

                  And yes as a gay man I have the right to let LGBT issues be a major part of how I choose who to support and who not to support.

                  Y'all can gang up on me all you want. You can insult, you can call my orientation a lifestyle, you can tell me that I'm single-handedly going to bring down all of civilization because I'm criticizing Democrats and pointing out the obvious consequences of not doing what the people who voted for them want them to do.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:26:45 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, the Health Care bill messes with the (0+ / 0-)

                    schedule, but he IS addressing them, right. A presidential term is four years, right. So, he still has that room. Your problem is not him not addressing it, it is when. I'm sorry, but life sometimes works out where time is not exactly followed. But if the actions are done, should time even matter? Shouldn't repeal be the focal point, not the time frame?

                  •  gonna need you to link (0+ / 0-)

                    where anyone did the following, I know I didn't:

                    you can tell me that I'm single-handedly going to bring down all of civilization because I'm criticizing Democrats and pointing out the obvious consequences of not doing what the people who voted for them want them to do.

                    What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:35:30 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I said you can (0+ / 0-)

                      I didn't say you did.

                      Come on. I know you're smarter than that.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:44:38 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  who did? (0+ / 0-)

                        why say it, in other words?

                        What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:00:26 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  It's a rhetorical statement (0+ / 0-)

                          must you take everything personally?

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:01:56 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  you do yourself a disservice (0+ / 0-)

                            with that kind of hyperbole.

                            What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                            by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:04:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's not hyperbole (0+ / 0-)

                            It's just a rhetorical statement.

                            Hyperbole is a gross exaggeration like saying the world and civilization as we know it will end if the Republicans are allowed to regain power.

                            If that's true then we need to brace ourselves because it's gonna happen sooner or later.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:06:24 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  this isn't gross exaggeration?? (0+ / 0-)

                            you can tell me that I'm single-handedly going to bring down all of civilization because I'm criticizing Democrats and pointing out the obvious consequences of not doing what the people who voted for them want them to do.

                            I don't think you're discussing this in good faith at this point.

                            What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                            by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:11:26 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You're changing the subject (0+ / 0-)

                            instead of focusing on my point and trying to effectively rebut it. You're the one not discussing in good faith.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:36:55 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  As A 'Straight' Man, I Can Judge ObamaDems By (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Cali Techie

                    the same Quality standards as 'Cali Techie' does.

                    Obama and the DC Dems? have actively faught against many of the promises they made to get their majority bennies.

                    Only it's NOT their bennies, I'm concerned about.

                    EVERY diary like this can be considered an ADVERTISEMENT by voters of what would 'close the deal' but the happy talk crew would rather attempt to say we all want 'ponies'.

                    ~Ruff

                    •  Nice Advertising, but a plan of action (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mallyroyal

                      would be better. Tell me, we have 59 senators, around 10 or so are conservative blue dogs. How do we get your legislation through?

                      •  don't hold your breath. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        GOVCHRIS1988

                        that one NEVER gets answered.  or answered by the words "bully pulpit" like it's some excalibur.

                        What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:01:27 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Party Discipline (0+ / 0-)

                        Leaders can reduce a party member's standing if they don't vote the party line or support the platform. That's exactly what the Republicans did to McConnell when he started deviating from the Republican script on health care reform. They basically told him he'd better get back in line or he'd lose the perks that come with his status in the party.

                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:08:47 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  And they still don't have a platform (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          mallyroyal

                          Or goodwill with the people. Even if they don't win, they will still be unpopular. And we will continue to have this musical chair style party shift until then.

                          •  That doesn't matter (0+ / 0-)

                            One of the reasons why people vote Republican is because they never waver. They have the strength of their convictions.

                            And the problem is the Democrats learn the wrong lessons when Republicans win. You see when Republicans lose they shift to the right. When Democrats lose they shift to the right. Do you see the problem here?

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:23:42 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Which is why I work to keep them out (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            MetallicaFan34

                            and stay with Democrats so I can disprove the bullshit and help move the party left again.

                          •  Simply keeping the Republicans out (0+ / 0-)

                            isn't enough. When our majority is held hostage by the minority and a small number of DINOs we have to do something about it. The leadership has the tools but they are afraid to use them. Why? Because they know the DINOs will switch parties. To that I say good riddance because it shows their true colors.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:40:43 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  By Not Backstabbing The Base In ARK (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Cali Techie

                        and making the Repugs fight against REAL DEMS! who actually aren't Repug-Lite.

                        Instead, we get folks like yourselves, who insist that we back the folks that sell us out.

                        ~Ruff

                        •  No, you should primary them regardless of the (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          mallyroyal

                          support from the President or party leadership. But if they win the primary, its either him or the Republican, and if you actually fell for that old trick that they aren't different, then I hope we speak again when your bitching about what those newly elected Republicans are doing again.

                          •  I don't disagree (0+ / 0-)

                            But we have to stop treating the primaries like they're the general. Primaries are the time when you vote your conscience. The general is when you vote your party (thanks Mom).

                            The problem is people aren't voting their conscience in the primary. Instead the focus is on how a certain candidate will match up against another candidate in the general. We see it here on this site all the time.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:26:47 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Actually I Vote My Conscience EVERY Time (0+ / 0-)

                            I won't support a sellout in any election ever again. I'll write in Alan Grayson, or Bernie Sanders instead.

                            Yep, 'Cali Techie', I'm a real purist!

                            An un-abashed, un-ashamed, pony-loving purist.

                            It's my money, my time and my life -- and I refuse to waste it on sellouts and traitors anymore.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  you write them in (0+ / 0-)

                            in congressional races they have nothing to do with?

                            might as well write mickey mouse.

                            What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                            by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:38:26 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And yet, you haven't moved the country left. (0+ / 0-)

                            By writing in those people. Why is that?

                          •  It's NOT My Job To ... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Cali Techie

                            "Move the country left' or any other strategic horsecrap.

                            It's the job of OUR employees, congress critters and the president, keep their promises to the satisfaction of the folks who voted, donated and worked for their election.

                            If they don't do that then they can expect to lose ground.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  Now thats lazy (0+ / 0-)
                            We elect them as a mean, not as an end. These politicians are a reflection of us. If we don't work, why do we expect them to.
                          •  More Horsecrap (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Cali Techie

                            Employers hire employees because they want them to do work.

                            Obama is a poor reflection of progressives.

                            Many Americans want to work and Obama is not doing enough about creating jobs.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  And this is the single reason (0+ / 0-)

                            why Democrats are going to lose seats in November.

                            People vote their pocketbooks. Have you never heard the phrase, "It's the economy, stupid?"

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:42:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  but (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Ruff Limblog

                            if the candidates presented to voters are all poor candidates (see MA. Sen) what does that say about the party leadership?

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:27:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Hey, when Coakley came on the scene (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mallyroyal

                            She seemed like a winner. A woman Attorney General of Massachussetts elected resoundingly by the people.  She wins the primary, then doesn't do shit, even when the establishment prods her to do something. That loss was hers to lose, and she lost it.

                          •  I'm Sure Glad I Did Not Waste Any Of My... (0+ / 0-)

                            time and money on her.

                            I don't live in MA, so I couldn't vote for her.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  That's a prime example (0+ / 0-)

                            of lack of leadership.

                            My cynical side says she threw the election to give cover to Democrats so they can say they don't have 60 votes in the Senate.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:39:17 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And see, thats another problem (0+ / 0-)

                            If you believe these guys have it in for you, then of course they aren't gonna work for you either. You can't hope that the President can change their minds or help them out when you believe they are satan anyway

                          •  I don't believe they have it in for me (0+ / 0-)

                            I believe they don't give a crap.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:42:49 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Get rid of them (0+ / 0-)

                        and put real Democrats in their place.

                        If it means the Republicans are in charge for a cycle then so be it.

                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:37:44 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

    •  Ed Schultz was duped (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Techie

      by the very type of candidate that the people say they want to get rid of ..'cynical career politician that willfully distorts the truth..Romanoff'..from the Denver Post:

      So I wonder what we are getting if we support this kind of BS because there is a 'd' behind their name!

      Subject: Romanoff
      >>
      >>How about the Denver Post articles...July 25/31, 2010...
      >>http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/8/2/45525/07946
      >>http://www.denverpost.com/editorials/ci_15642940
      >>http://www.denverpost.com/carroll/ci_15642958
      >>
      >>tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/eric_lach/2010/07/25-week/
      >>
      http://www.9news.com/...
      >>or the scramble: www.denverpost.com/news/frontpage
      >>
      >>Hmmm and the jury is still out on the latest sleaze on the DPS transaction...from romanoff..
      >>BUT A School Board member who supports Romanoff  admitted to the Denver Post today that she shopped the story to the New York Times for months. And, when doing so she did not disclose that she was a Romanoff supporter, much less that she and her husband have contributed nearly $10,000 to Andrew Romanoff.

      No longer support the party but the candidate from hear on out!
      >

  •  Cali, this is a really silly. It like saying (6+ / 0-)

    Both losing a finger and an arm are amputations so I don't see any really difference. I know it is easy to be cynical, politics is fully of galling compromise and defeats. It can wear one down to the point where saying "a pox on both your houses!" is not hyperbole but heartfelt sentiment.

    However the level of bad has to be taken into account. The havoc that the radical Republicans have sown has left the President and the Congress with a massive mess.

    That combined with the fact that even the wave elections of 06 and 08 did not come close to replacing half of either House or Senate means that many of the people who helped screw up the nation are still there . It makes real and significant change hard at best.

    Things could be a hell of a lot worse and while it is normally not a good thing to run on, given the radical Republican insanity it has the potential to be a winner this cycle.

    Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain -6.25, -6.10

    by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:37:11 AM PDT

    •  You don't get it (4+ / 0-)

      You keep saying things could be a lot worse but given what I've seen over the past 40 years I don't think it really could be.

      I've lived through Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, & Bush II. I've watched a strong party with a real backbone get reduced to a quivering blob.

      You call it silly. I call it pathetic.

      Don't tell me things are going to be even worse under Republicans. I'm not buying it. At least the Republicans don't make a bunch of promises to me they have no intention of keeping.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:41:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  When do you want full equallity? Thats the (4+ / 0-)

        question that matters. Republicans will try to enshrine your second class citizenship forever. Democrats will make an effort, not as strong as those of us who believe every citizen deserves full rights all the time would like, but an effort, to achieve that goal.

        You are saying that things can't get worse but I would remind you that both DADT and DOMA were Republican initiatives. President Clinton said he worked with then and signed these laws to keep them from doing something worse. I was there, I believe it.

        If they are allowed to run the agenda again you can be 100% sure that the cause of equality for gay citizens will be set back, not just left in the status quo.

        As of the promises that are not kept, I think your righteous anger at the slow pace of progress has blinded you to the fact that Republicans will, for sure, make things in this area and many others worse not better.

        So tell me what would you rather have, less equality or slow and halting progress towards equality. These are your choices. There is not a third one.

        Will you pick some progress over losing ground? I know that I will.

        Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain -6.25, -6.10

        by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:49:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Democrats (4+ / 0-)

          as a whole are making no effort at all. That's the problem. Sure we're not going backwards, but I didn't work my ass off for Democrats for 40 years to stand still.

          From my perspective the LGBT community actually comes out ahead when the Republicans are in control. After all look who was in charge when the SCOTUS decided Lawrence v. Texas?

          You're also providing a false dichotomy leaving out other choices like Democrats who actually give a damn about the people who they represent. That's what I want, not people who only like me during election years.

          I'm sick of being talked down to and chastised by people on this site who think Democrats are entitled to my vote just because they're Democrats. No.

          I'm angry and I'm sick of empty promises. Democrats need to deliver if they want my support. I've been delivering for them for decades. It's time for them to do something for me.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:57:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Isn't it too much to expect a Big Tent party (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Loquatrix, mallyroyal

            to ever act "as a whole"? Really that is part of Big Tent politics, you have a messy fractious party that does not move as one.

            If you think that the Democratic Party ever moved as a whole, you are making a mistake of history.

            Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain -6.25, -6.10

            by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:18:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              They were pretty tight post WWII, and dominated Congress. Sure we had more Republican presidents, but the Democrats held on to the legislative branch, which kept the Republicans including Reagan in check.

              It's not going to be my fault if the Democrats lose this year and in 2012. It's going to be the Democrats' and the Democrats' alone for not taking advantage of their majorities to do the right thing for the country.

              I'm angry but I'm still going to vote. I'm just not giving them any money or time.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:22:22 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not really,. At that time there were many Dems (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                flhiii88

                who were staunchly for segregation while there were many (most) who were against it. Sound familiar?

                You are making a nihilistic argument. Since you don't perceive any difference between the two parties on your primary issue does not mean that there are not difference that would make an huge impact you and the nation if the Republicans take control again.

                This is the exact argument the Nader voters made. Do you really think that 4 or 8 years of President Gore would have been the same for the nation as the criminal President Bush? This is where the line of thinking you are pushing goes.

                Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain -6.25, -6.10

                by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:54:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I knew someone would eventually (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  k9disc, Ruff Limblog

                  bring up Nader.

                  Gore lost on his own. He refused to let Clinton who had nearly an 80% approval rating campaign for him.

                  Gore screwed himself. Had he let Clinton campaign for him that would have put him over the top.

                  Nader is just a convenient scapegoat so Democrats don't have to accept responsibility for that loss.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:58:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  By the way (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              I'm being charged full price for admission to the big tent yet I'm still on the outside looking in.

              The leadership of the Democratic Party doesn't give a damn about me or the rest of the LGBT community except when they need our money and our labor. Then they give us Hollywood hugs and blow air kisses, but that's about it.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:40:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Horseshit. You want to feel sorry for yourself? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                terrypinder, mallyroyal

                Okay. As for me I will keep working the best angle possbile for full civil rights for all. I am not going to disown crappy allies, I am going to work to make them better allies and get what progress I can while I work on them.

                If you feel like it is not worth it, well that is your call, but I have to wonder why you bother to post at all? You act as though there is nothing that can be done so we should do nothing. Well, I am not willing to give up because things don't go my way (and that happens a lot) I am not going to leave the feild to those who would make things less equal merely because I am not getting the progress I want on the schedule I want.

                You seem to feel differently, and that is fine, but I think you do a further disservice to yours issue by casing this "it all sucks" shadow on those who have not and will not give up. But the call is always going to be yours.

                Cheers,.

                Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain -6.25, -6.10

                by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:57:16 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You don't get it (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ruff Limblog

                  If I really felt the way you say I do, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be wasting my time banging my head up against a brick wall saying:

                  "WAKE THE FUCK UP DEMOCRATS! YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE BIG IF YOU DON'T START DOING WHAT VOTERS ELECTED YOU TO DO!"

                  Instead you choose to attack and insult me which isn't exactly the best way to get me to do what you want me to do.

                  I'm not giving up. I'm trying to knock some sense into people, but it isn't working so maybe I should just start working on moving to Canada.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:01:40 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That is the second time you have told me I don't (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mallyroyal

                    get it. Having read and reread you post and comments I have to say if I am still misunderstanding you then it is a communication gap in your arguments. I don't see someone who is trying to bring the party back to where it should be, I see someone casting a shadow that does more to demotivate the others that read this than inspire them to work to fix the problems in the Democratic party.

                    It could also be that I am completely obtuse, but I generally don't get told that from other people, so I tend to think it is the former rather than the latter.

                    Getting Democrats together and keeping them that way is like herding cats that are high on meth, through L.A., during an earthquake, in the rain -6.25, -6.10

                    by Something the Dog Said on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:36:48 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I See This Diary As An Advertisement (0+ / 0-)

                      On what the Dems? should be doing to get their base to come home.

                      It's an old theme in salesmanship, you listen for the prospect to tell you what will make them a BUYER.

                      In 50 years of work, I never heard a single sales manager tell a sales rep to ever tell a customer they are dumb, stupid, or want a 'pony' instead of trying to see what they could do to 'close the deal'.

                      Only Dem? politicians seem to expect to 'Sister Soljah' their base and then get back enthusiastic voters and bales of money.

                      ~Ruff

                      •  Ok, but you are advertising to the President (0+ / 0-)

                        when you should really be advertising to those conservadems in Congress. They are the ones who vote the pieces of legislation through. The President tries to help get them through, but those conservadems forstall some of that and will kill the bill if they have to. So, its up to the voters in those states to get it moving.

                        •  The president (0+ / 0-)

                          is the leader of the party. I don't think it's too much to ask him to actually lead instead of looking cool in his office or walking the dog.

                          He can do something about the conservadems a.k.a. Blue Dogs. Congressional leaders can do something about them as well. It's not like they're totally powerless even though that's what they'd like us to believe when they say they can't overcome a filibuster and it takes 60 votes in the Senate just so Biden can go take a shit.

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:49:57 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  But what is "leading"? (0+ / 0-)

                            I hear that from many, but they never define it. They don't give us a clue how to lead, they just say the word like its one of Merlin's magic words. How? How? Tell me, how?

                          •  Leading (0+ / 0-)

                            Is taking a stand on an important issue. That stand is a principled stand based upon doing what is right instead of doing what is politically expedient and not backing down at the first sign of trouble or opposition.

                            Leading is investigating charges leveled at an employee before deciding whether or not to fire her.

                            Leading is keeping a promise you made during the SOTU.

                            Do you need any more examples?

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:04:38 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Nice to take a stand (0+ / 0-)

                            But, does that translate into action by Congress. Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson proved that public popularity be damned, what I want is what counts. These two will still be in the senate next year.

                          •  That's a failure in leadership (0+ / 0-)

                            The fact Lieberman is in the Senate at all is a failure in leadership. He shouldn't be there. He lost the Democratic primary to someone else and then ran under an imaginary party with the full backing of the Democratic Party.

                            He shouldn't be in the Senate because his "Connecticut for Lieberman" party was not a legitimate political party at the time he was elected. They are now and they are decidedly not for Lieberman.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:11:03 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  But he's still there (0+ / 0-)

                            and he was elected senator by the people of Connecticut. And the DNC was behind Ned Lamont. Lieberman had the backing of Karl Rove and many Republicans crossed over and voted for him, which is why the Republican candidate had like 6%.

                          •  He should have never been on the ballot (0+ / 0-)

                            to begin with.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:40:39 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Unfortunately, the laws in Connecticut (0+ / 0-)

                            allows that. So, unless you run for the Connecticut state legislature and change it, there is nothing you can do about that. He had that option, and took it. We hate him with a passion, but he is no novice as a politician.

                          •  Actually the laws in CT (0+ / 0-)

                            do NOT allow it. However he was still allowed to run even though he was not a candidate from a legitimate party.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:44:26 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  The DC Dems? Gave Ben Nelson $500,000 AFTER (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Cali Techie

                            He stabbed the Public Option in the back!

                            NOW... THAT'S LEADERSHEEP IN ACTION!!!

                            It's Repug style leadership!

                            Not a single hair has been mussed on the heads of a single traitor.

                            As leader of the party, Obama has consistently passed on actually making a single turncoat pay a price for their backstabbing.

                            But we are all supposed to get amnesia and 'send those dollars NOW'.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  Isn't he a Democrat? (0+ / 0-)

                            Its called the Democratic National Committee because it helps Democrats, not just Democrats that vote on progressive issues, but all Democrats. Same with Republicans giving money to the Maine Sisters and Scott Brown.

                          •  And Now You Have Explained Why (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Cali Techie

                            the base doesn't give a shit anymore.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  Your not the base (0+ / 0-)

                            The base actually votes in every election to move the nation the way they want it to move. The base actually takes the long term gains over short term goals or displays. You seem not to when you don't get your way. So, youre not the base

                          •  You really believe that? (0+ / 0-)

                            I mean really?

                            I've been voting in every election since 1982 trying to move the nation the way I'd like it to move. That makes me the base. I've been working on very long term goals like marriage equality and employment non-discrimination for a VERY long time.

                            So far I'm still working on them.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:46:36 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I meant that one for Ruff. (0+ / 0-)
                          •  I Too Have Been Voting Years Before CT (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Cali Techie

                            You are as full of shit concerning me as you are in most of your other comments.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  Voting years,ok (0+ / 0-)

                            For who?

                          •  For Decades I've Wasted My Vote On Democrats (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Cali Techie

                            Who don't deliver on their promises.

                            And NOW, I'm done with being a blind Dem? voter and activist.

                            ~Ruff

                          •  On the Sherrod charges (0+ / 0-)

                            Leading is also rectifying mistakes made. I recall the President and the Secretary of Agriculture making an apology personally to Ms. Sherrod. I haven't heard that from the Media or Breitbart.

                          •  It was a mistake (0+ / 0-)

                            that should never have been made in the first place. It would have taken less than 5 minutes to debunk the whole thing and a leader would have investigated before acting.

                            An apology later does not right the wrong.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:12:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It helps (0+ / 0-)

                            Plus, the white house didn't have the tape, the NAACP did. They failed in this as well, and could have before the White House put out the statement of her firing, changed the situation. Mistakes were made and apologies were made. We can't fix the past, but we can try and do better in the future, but you want perfection from imperfect people. If you believe this is the only way to get what you want, good luck with that.

                          •  The footage (0+ / 0-)

                            was on the same Internet as the doctored footage. A YouTube search would have found it. Besides she did tell them about it beforehand and gave them info on where to find the truth.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:18:15 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You have got to know the game Republicans play (0+ / 0-)

                            Ok, Obama fires the Agricultural secretary. Fox runs it as another scalp and uses it to say the Obama administration is on its heels. Your not focusing on Fox or Breitbart, but how its Obama's fault she was fired. I saw his schedule that day, I'm not so sure he had time to get on his laptop and research youtube for the video. You seem harder on the Administration than Ms. Sherrod is. She's suing Breitbart, not the Administration.

                          •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

                            And that's why it was imperative they do at least a basic investigation of the facts before they just knee-jerked and fired her.

                            It's Obama's fault because the order to fire her came from the White House. That's his official office and the buck stops with him.

                            You can't white wash this. Firing Sherrod was an incredibly stupid move for what is supposedly such a smooth and savvy operation. What happened to cool and calm? They panicked at the first sign of a scandal. A scandal that was manufactured and a scandal they knew about days before it was ever released by Breitbart.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:49:41 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That doesn't disprove anything (0+ / 0-)

                            She was fired in a knee jerk reaction and yes they knew about it in advance because Ms. Sherrod e-mailed her superiors about it before it ever hit Faux Nooz. The woman said so herself.

                            The Democrats are so afraid of scandal and bad news they will turn themselves inside out to eject one of their own before stopping for five minutes to find out if the accusations leveled by the opposition, who is known to lie are actually true.

                            That whole deal was disgusting. I hope she wins lots of $$ from her lawsuit.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:48:32 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  Because you don't get it (0+ / 0-)

                      You don't see the warning in what I'm saying. Does that mean you're obtuse? No. It means you aren't seeing the bigger picture.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:46:40 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  By the way (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ruff Limblog

                  my political prediction record on this site is well over 90%.

                  My bet is the Democratic Party will lose many seats in Congress this year. They'll probably retain the majority, but only barely. Unless something drastically changes, Obama will be a single term president.

                  Why? Because he didn't deliver the change he promised when he had the opportunity to do so.

                  I'm an insignificant player. People don't give a crap whether I personally vote or not. I'm just pointing out the obvious result from Democratic inaction, scapegoating, fear-mongering, and excuse making.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:05:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  and who will be elected? (0+ / 0-)
                    •  The Republican challengers (0+ / 0-)

                      whoever they may be.

                      The Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves but they'll sure try to pass that buck if they can.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:50:53 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It hasn't happened yet (0+ / 0-)

                        You right now are stating that in 2012, he will lose. Not he COULD lose. But he WILL lose. Then when he loses, where does that leave us and the nation?

                        •  No I'm pretty sure he will lose (0+ / 0-)

                          Because he promised sweeping change if he was elected. The opportunity for him to enact that sweeping change has passed and it has not happened. Washington operates as it always has and we still have the best government money can buy.

                          History has not been kind to incumbent Democratic Presidents. Obama will not be re-elected unless he gives voters a good reason to do it and so far not being a Republican isn't a very good reason.

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:43:11 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  He also said it would take time. (0+ / 0-)

                            I remember that in the campaign when he said it. His new voters remember that. The only people who don't seem to remember that are the people who weren't 100% behind him in the first place. George W. Bush fucked us up and every economist in the nation said it wouldn't take a term. If we keep writing epitaphs for a Presidency that isn't even in the home stretch in, they will win.

                          •  That's all well and good (0+ / 0-)

                            but maybe while we're waiting maybe he could at least look like he's fighting for what he promised instead of caving at every opportunity?

                            I keep telling you. History is not kind to Democratic Presidents. Only one Democrat has been re-elected as POTUS since FDR. I do hope Obama gets re-elected, but I doubt it especially if he keeps going the way he's going.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:52:09 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  and then were screwed. (0+ / 0-)

                            Thats our choice. If we elect a Republican, we are screwed. Thats it.  They can't fix us, and they sure as hell aren't gonna try.

                          •  I guess we are (0+ / 0-)

                            because the Democrats aren't trying either.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:00:45 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And now you get (0+ / 0-)

                            why people who turned out for Obama in '08 aren't excited about voting in 2010 and probably won't.

                            I've been a Democrat since I've been in diapers. I've watched this happen before. The Democrats are too damn scared of losing to take any real chances and as a result they're going to lose anyway.

                            People like leaders who are decisive and bold. They want to see action even if it's wrong. Racking up empty victories just for the sake of being able to count them isn't action and voters know the difference.

                            Obama and the Democrats were elected because people were angry, they wanted action, and the Democrats promised to deliver it. Once elected the Democrats became too afraid of losing that they only went through the motions of acting and didn't really accomplish all that much. People see this. They feel it in their wallets and it's boiling down to the same thing it always has:

                            It's the economy, stupid.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:06:17 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  Under President Obama the unemployment (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Cali Techie

                    rate is STILL 9.5 percent. Where's the change? Why isn't Obama showing any leadership with regards to the economy? Having said that, Speaker Pelosi has MUCH MORE spine than President Barack "Talk and no show" Obama.

          •  I'm gonna be very blunt here. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal, flhiii88

            Ok, so getting a case that allows gay people to legally screw in Texas struck down during a Republican Congress/Administration is much better than getting a Hate Crimes law that we have been dying for years for with a Democratic Congress/Administration. Really?

            •  I'm not comparing the two (0+ / 0-)

              Apples and oranges.

              Under Bill Clinton we got DOMA and DADT. We moved backwards.

              Under Bush we got Lawrence v. Texas. A step forward, actually a BIG step forward. Why? Because it ended widespread institutionalized discrimination against LGBT people. You may not think it's a big thing, but the scope was huge since nearly half of all states had anti-gay sodomy laws on the books.

              Under Obama we got the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act. An act that should have been passed while Clinton was still in office.

              Net score - under Democrats we took one step back. Under Republicans we took one step forward.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:06:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Were under Obama now. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mallyroyal

                The Hate Crimes Law. Step forward.

                AIDS Travel ban lifted. Step Forward.

                Working to Rectify DADT-If we elect a Democratic Congress, may be step forward. If not, then until he leaves office.

                •  AIDS Travel Ban (0+ / 0-)

                  is a nice thing. It really is. I'm glad it's gone. However that affects relatively few people. Given you can't even really tell anymore if someone is poz by looking at them it's almost a non-issue unless they're doing HIV tests at the border. I'm talking bigger picture things that affect all of us.

                  DADT was supposed to be done by the end of the year. The bill has already passed the House, but held up in the Senate at Obama's urging even though he made the promise himself. A cynical mind might say it's very conveniently timed to make sure the LGBT community comes out and votes in the mid terms.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:59:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

                    Ok, does the DADT repeal have 60 votes for cloture, plus does it have strong backing at the Pentagon. How do you know the President didn't make a deal with the Pentagon for support. If you say that they will support him because he is CIC, remember Bill Clinton.

                    On the Travel Ban, its something many wanted. Just because it didn't affect you directly doesn't mean it didn't affect the community as a whole. It would be good for you not to shirk that.

                    •  DADT could get past cloture (0+ / 0-)

                      if the Democratic leadership really wanted it to.

                      The Pentagon wasn't happy about being told to integrate the troops but they did it. That's how it works. As long as it's a lawful order they can't ignore it.

                      I could be affected by the travel ban. You don't know that. I'm saying it's mostly symbolic and doesn't really address much just as extending benefits same sex partners of federal employees is mostly symbolic. It's a nice gesture but it's not one of the world's greatest achievements.

                      The Democrats are good at harvesting the low-hanging fruit, but anything that requires much real effort tends to get squashed before it's ever harvested.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:17:01 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  It couldn't be worse? (3+ / 0-)

        Things can always be worse. If the GOP merely got the things they currently claim they want, today could look like paradise in comparison.

        The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

        by A Citizen on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:23:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But by doing little or nothing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ruff Limblog

          to roll back Republican policies and repair the damage the Republicans did to this country, when the GOP does regain control (and they will, it's only a matter of time) all Democrats have done is simply delayed the implementation of their plans. That's all.

          Someone used a sinking ship analogy earlier and spoke of bailing. It does no good bailing if you're using a sieve while everyone else is topside rearranging the deck chairs.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:34:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  How you live your life (gay or straight) (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mallyroyal, flhiii88

        is greatly influenced by public policy.
        Like whether you have a job, healthcare, have a chance to by an electric car, care about how taxes are distributed, whether we should be fighting wars, are just a few of things where are there is a difference between the parties.

        Everybody's world was rocked in 2008 when the economy crashed. Putting the people who caused the crisis back in charge, doesn't seem to help your cause, IMHO.

        It will decrease the funds and the platform your issue can fought from, and place it further down the line of importance of things to be fixed, as more energy and resources will be needed to undo the consequences of a lost election.

        Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

        by Sherri in TX on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:11:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Putting the people who caused the crisis (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          k9disc, Ruff Limblog

          back in charge is exactly what Obama did!

          Or did you miss that?

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:12:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's bizarre, isn't it? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cali Techie

            Obama's a D, though, so it's different.

            Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

            by k9disc on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:14:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think Kagan and Sotamayor (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal, flhiii88

            would be sitting on the Supreme Ct today with a Pres. McCain, and 2 more Alitos or Thomases would not help your cause much.

            I've got issues with the dems, too.
            I agree, Mr. Summers and Geitner are not my favorite people.

            I am frustrated too,

            I'm just not ready to throw in the towel yet, is what I'm trying to say.

            I would still rather have the dems in charge, and be mad at them, than live thru the last 8 years again. I want to keep moving forward, even if it is only a few inches at a time.

            I don't think there is any forward motion on any issue in the republican party, period.

            Today's problems are yesterday's solutions. Don Beck

            by Sherri in TX on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:31:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The level of how much all of our lives will suck. (8+ / 0-)

    ....if the Republicans win is unimaginable.  You cannot see the difference between the batshit crazy, ultra-radical right that runs the Republican party now and the Republicans of the 1980's?  You cannot see that the courts are stacked with right wingers and decent judges that can change that are being blocked by Republicans?  You think you would fare better if every decent judge in the country was replaced for the rest of your lifetime with batshit nuts?  

    I'm sorry Obama has not been able to change the world in 18 months "because he promised".  Are we all four year olds?  While you list your grievances, you ignore the most obstructionist, hateful opposition party in U.S. history.  But it's all Obama's fault.  Not voting will help.  

    I am the sister of a gay man.  I desperately want to see my close gay friends able to marry and afforded every right.  

    If Democrats had behaved in 1934 and 1936 the way we're behaving now, there would have been no New Deal.  It took over a decade for the Depression to end.  But we want everything instantly, like we're four year olds.  

    You are not alone.  We will not rally, we will not fight the long battle like Republicans did.  It took them 30 years and they got what they wanted.  We don't get what we want in 18 months and we quit.  

    You'll see how different the world will be under the new Republican Party's rule.  

    •  Sorry, not buying it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ruff Limblog, asdfghjkl

      The corporate interests won't allow the nutjobs anywhere near the levers of power. Alito and Scalia are about as nuts at it gets and they look positively sane compared to the teabaggers.

      This isn't about changing the world in 18 months. This is about loyalty. It goes both ways. It's about managing expectations. It's about not biting the hand that feeds you.

      I expect life to suck when the Republicans are in power. I expect it to get better when Democrats take control. To date I see no difference between now and 2 years ago when it comes to equality. The only advances we're getting is through the courts and it doesn't seem to matter that the judge is a conservative as Walker is.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:51:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cali Techie

        This isn't about changing the world in 18 months. This is about loyalty. It goes both ways. It's about managing expectations. It's about not biting the hand that feeds you.

        For me it's not about speed. It's about direction. Above, 57andFemale mentions how crazy the right is these days - how far to the 'Right' they've drifted. Well the Democrats have moved right over there with them.

        I'm not pissed that the Health Care Bill didn't go far enough - I'm pissed because it went in the wrong direction - 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

        Mandated participation in private markets as a consequence of being alive. Citizens being forced to subsidize a market 'for our own good'.

        That was totally the wrong direction, in my opinion. It codified Private Medical Insurance as the US Method of medical care.

        Then there's the rhetorical and strategic angles that are just fucking miserable as well - more failed conservative policies. Looking Forward.

        meh...

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:04:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You just said... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          k9disc, Ruff Limblog

          Well the Democrats have moved right over there with them.

          I couldn't agree more. Yet they still think even though they're drifting away from me that I should still support them.

          The cheerleaders here hold up Health Care Reform as if it was a major progressive achievement. It's not. It's one of the worst pieces of legislation ever written because it was written by the very people it was supposed to protect us from. Yet people here are drinking that punch like it's the sweetest thing they've ever tasted. Just wait until 2014 when we're all paying $2K per month for insurance policies that don't cover anything.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:10:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The spectacular failure of conservative policies (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cali Techie, Ruff Limblog

            over the last 30 years should have been brought up.

            It should be brought up at every opportunity.

            Deregulation should be hammered.

            Market based solutions should be smashed.

            They don't work. They were not meant to work.

            Grover's bathtub strategy is totally transparent and yet there's no calling Republicans Saboteurs by Democrats.

            Over and over Democrats have refused to protect People, and I'm sick of it.

            It's been taking place my entire voting life and I can't support someone who is to the Right of Nixon or Ike. Sorry.

            Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

            by k9disc on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:18:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              k9disc, Ruff Limblog

              Instead of pointing out the failures brought about by conservatives, the Democrats rush to embrace them.

              What the hell is up with that?

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:23:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  We are not consequent in our support. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Cali Techie, Ruff Limblog

                They shit on us, we vote for them so as to not get shit on. They roll over, we vote for them so they don't roll over on us again.

                Look at the shit you get when you threaten to not surrender your vote to your local D.

                Contrast that with the straight up, brass fucking tacks consequence that corporate has.

                They shit on Bankers, bankers withdraw support or give more to Republicans. They roll over on Insurance Companies, insurance companies float the Tea Baggers.

                Democrats fear the repercussions of stepping on corporate toes. They call their base 'fucking retarded' because we are. We don't get politics at all.

                There is no fear of the electorate. We are permissive handlers incapable of cultivating behavior with carrots or sticks because we don't understand consequence.  

                Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

                by k9disc on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:10:22 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  perfect response (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Loquatrix, mallyroyal, flhiii88

      i don't know how to talk to people who have some legitimate greivances but chose to act on those by throwing up their hands and quitting. sorry dear diarist, but that is what you are arguing for, and you are asking people in this community to endorse it.

      its a sad, weak, bullshit reaction to reasonable frustration. if we can't see ANY differences between the government we are trying to build and the RADICALISM the GOP is trying to build, we deserve what we get.

      •  You don't get it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ruff Limblog

        The Democratic party takes years of my time, my money, and my vote then craps all over me and my fellow LGBT and progressive friends as if our contributions to their success was meaningless.

        And yet you all seem to feel the Democrats are somehow entitled to my full and fervent support after doing that.

        Keep trying fear and insults. I've told you what it will take to get my support but you're totally unwilling to do it.

        All I'm asking for is to not be marginalized. Is that so much to ask? Seriously? Is it too much to ask Obama to not say "I'm against same sex marriage because I'm a Christian." Is it really to the point that being accountable to those who have supported you over the years isn't a possibility?

        Seriously?

        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

        by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:15:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, you don't get it. (0+ / 0-)

          The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

          by A Citizen on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:24:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  i get it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal

          what you want takes longer, is supported less vigorously, and is harder to implement than it  should. for that, you want to walk away to make sure they know how much it hurts you. to make yourself feel better about that, you pretend that it doesn't matter. but it does. and you know it.

          bottom line, this isn't about you loving the people you vote for. its about evaluating your strategic interest in bringing about the world you want to live in. if you yourself are not willing to take the long view and fight like hell to bring about that world, no one else will. it was true of unions, civil rights, the New Deal safety net, women's rights, the level of LGBT rights won to this point, and any number of real positive change in our country over its history. its also true of the undoing of that progress under GOP leadership over the last 40 years. the GOP is taking that long view, and they won't stop until they undo every aspect of that positive change you seem willing to take for granted.  

          •  I'm not the one who walked away (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ruff Limblog

            The Democrats have walked away.

            I've been steadfast in my support of Democrats for 40 YEARS. Only as of late to watch Democrats crumple every time a Republican calls them a name or mounts even the mildest of opposition.

            I've been evaluating my strategic interest in bringing about the world in which I want to live and I've determined the current leadership of the Democratic party isn't interested in having that kind of world. Therefore they don't deserve my support.

            There has been no positive change. All that's been is the upholding of the status quo.

            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:37:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  top comment! (0+ / 0-)

      black kos,wglb,c&j,: free from emo poutrage

      by terrypinder on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:31:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So by all means (6+ / 0-)

    don't vote or go find some folks you can support that you think will actually do what you think is best. (good luck)

    But comparing what the Republicans profess to support these days including the crop of loons now running for office to Nixon, Reagan or Bush I is absurd. All of them would be far to liberal for today's Republican party. Far too willing to work with the other side, far too willing to actually do something as opposed to undoing things.

    In the choice between changing ones mind and proving there's no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof.

    by jsfox on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:56:03 AM PDT

    •  Comparing what Democrats profess with Nixon, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Techie

      Reagan and Bush looks pretty similar though.

      I think that might be part of the problem with Cali, here.

      I know it is with me.

      Mandated state mandated shopping for healthcare?
      Cap and Trade as a check against Global Warming?

      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

      by k9disc on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:07:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  you think, as a Black man, I haven't felt taken (5+ / 0-)

    for granted by the party as a whole, at several times during my adult life?  (which admittedly isn't as long as yours... I'm 36)  sure I have.  and so what?  life's bigger than my hurt feelings.

    anyway the answer is hell yeah you'll know the difference.  have you seriously not been paying attention to the outright LUNACY infecting the republican party?

    I'm likewise tired of trying to convince some of you that "kinda not great" isn't nearly as bad as "atrocious" so have fun goin off that cliff.

    What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

    by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 05:59:28 AM PDT

    •  Well if I'm that important (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      k9disc

      they'd better start treating me like I am.

      Corporate america isn't about to let those loons anywhere near the levers of power. The last one who tried was made to look like a total clown. Remember when Katie Couric interviewed Sarah Palin?

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:02:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oh yeah sarah palin (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        flhiii88

        was sure forced to run and hide with her tail btw her legs.  seriously?  thats your response?  you're talking about a former governor who ran for vice president, decided to quit her job, was immediately branded a power in her party, and is now being touted almost universally as a presidential nominee.

        now I'm convinced you are bending reality to fit your narrative.  good day.

        What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:05:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Do you honestly think Palin (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ruff Limblog

          is a viable candidate???

          Seriously???

          Are you THAT afraid???

          You see I've also lived through 9/11. I worked a short distance from the WTC. I watched the towers fall.

          After that, there isn't much that scares me anymore.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:18:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  its not about whether I am afraid of her (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            terrypinder, flhiii88

            but about whether or not such a candidate could win in the current climate.  the "grass is greener" climate where folks like you and the rightwingers can agree on one thing:  "Democrats suck".

            I think so, unfortunately.  or don't you remember how the Arizona immigration law POLLED?

            What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

            by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:32:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Palin couldn't win (0+ / 0-)

              if her life depended on it.

              There's no way it's going to happen. The corporate media made sure she looked like a clown and they continue to do so at every opportunity. More than 2/3 of the country believes she is not qualified for the job.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:43:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  when I see someone who (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                flhiii88

                heretofore has considered themself a lifelong Democrat... only castigating Democrats I don't know what to think.

                it's not like repubs will be doing the same.

                besides which what I've seen is the media breathlessly covering everything she tweets or FBs like she's the oracle of delphi.

                so. if the right is deadset against the admin and Dems

                and the left (according to folks like you and others on the site) are too...

                you seriously think a dumb "populist" like sarah palin couldn't get the republican nom two years from now?  and make a race of it?

                What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:09:17 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sometimes being your friend (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ruff Limblog

                  doesn't look like it.

                  Only your friends will point out your worst flaws in an attempt to get you to examine and correct them.

                  The Democrats are going to lose if they keep crapping on their constituents and expecting their votes. Unlike the Republican base, I can think for myself and I can tell the difference between rain and when someone is pissing on my leg.

                  The Democrats had better wake the fuck up or they're going to find themselves out in the wilderness for another 8 years starting in 2012.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:19:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  elections are a zero sum game (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    flhiii88

                    thats the part about this that doesn't wash.

                    I'd be willing to have this convo with you on a porch while rocking and drinking but you saying on a POLITICAL BLOG that it makes no difference that the repubs are in lockstep when we're talking about whether or not it would be worse for them to be in power just doesn't make any sense.

                    further, it betrays a political naivete' that isn't borne out by the cred you laid out in the diary.

                    I don't get it.  is your emotion clouding your reason?

                    What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:24:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  It's no different (0+ / 0-)

                      because the result is pretty much the same.

                      It doesn't matter that the Republicans are not in the majority because they get their way anyway. Why? Because regardless of whether or not the Republicans are in power they march in lockstep and do not waver. When that happens the Democrats get out of their way.

                      Political naiveté is when you think the Democrats are doing a better job even though they allow themselves to be blocked at every turn by a Republican minority. You can bet if the Republicans had the majorities the Democrats have now we'd be in a world of hurt.

                      I understand we don't want that. I certainly don't want that, however that's exactly what we're going to get if the Democratic leadership doesn't wake up and stop crapping all over their constituents.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:49:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I think it's supremely simplistic (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        flhiii88

                        to say "they got their way"

                        -there'd be NO health care reform, weak or otherwise, if they were currently in power.

                        -we wouldn't even be talking about ending the bush tax cuts

                        -there'd be no financial reform, weak or otherwise.

                        there'd be two far right justices appointed in the last half a year

                        no lily ledbetter.  no matt shephard (even though I saw you call that weak sauce or something)

                        we'd be invading Iran.  and maybe Russia.  (remember "we are all georgians?")  not drawing down in Iraq at all.  all that in addition to increasing in Afghanistan more than what we have under this admin.

                        thats just for starters, and just off the top of my head.

                        now if you come back and say "thats nothing" I am at a loss, because that will sound insane to me.

                        What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:57:49 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  They got their way (0+ / 0-)

                          They got a health care reform bill passed into law that's a piece of crap. For the GOP that's better than no bill because they can point to it as a failure and the Democrats own it. Lock stock and barrel because the record shows no Republicans voted for it and the public isn't going to remember it was the Republicans who made it crappy. All people are going to remember is that it's Obamacare.

                          Lily Ledbetter and Matt Shepard were both in the works before Obama became a candidate. They are victories but they are not his victories. Would McCain have signed them? Maybe. We don't know. Don't forget Matt Shepard was attached to must pass legislation.

                          Now you're going into hyperbole by saying we'd be invading Iran and Russia. The Republicans are not that stupid.

                          The point you're missing is that From Jan 2009 through December 2010, the Democrats had an unprecedented opportunity and they didn't take advantage of it for whatever reason. People are still hurting from the recession. Homes are still being foreclosed. Do you think the voters are going to remember who got them into the mess? No but they're sure as hell going to remember who didn't get them out of it.

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:00:21 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  They paint everything we do as a failure (0+ / 0-)

                            Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, everything. But they will never be able to get rid of it. Hell no, McCain wouldn't have signed those. This isn't 2000 McCain, this was Sarah Palin McCain. No way he would have. And I'm glad it was attached, because it got through. Three, they were stupid enough to go into Iraq, so what makes you think they aren't stupid enough to go into this one.

                            And then they will put Republicans in, who will further work against the mess and pledge the same shit. Yet, you believe they will win by pledging the same shit. ok.

                          •  Underestimate the Republicans (0+ / 0-)

                            at your own peril.

                            They're smarter than you think.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:12:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, because they have people believe they will (0+ / 0-)

                            do a good job if elected. If 12 years of a Republican congress along with 8 years of a Presidency doesn't disprove that, were going to hell.

                          •  Americans have short (0+ / 0-)

                            memories and even shorter attention spans.

                            Most are not political junkies like you and me. Most do not come to DKos to debate the finer points of Democratic politics.

                            Most have a limited view of the world around them. The less they have the the more limited that view becomes and they soon forget the true source of their misery. You can't keep blaming the Republicans forever and not do something about it. Obama and the Democrats now own this economy. That's all they know and that's what they'll use on election day.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:19:43 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  and thats why we have to get out there (0+ / 0-)

                            Its our responsibility to help out and educate the people about our issues. If we give that up, we have already failed at ever getting liberal change in the nation.

                          •  You have to get out there (0+ / 0-)

                            and ACCOMPLISH something of value. You have to show people you're working in their best interests. This whole "we have to educate people" is bullshit because if you were doing things that brought more positive change into their lives you wouldn't have to "educate" them.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:52:24 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Palin (0+ / 0-)

                  being the Republican nominee for either president or VP could be the best gift to Obama ever.

                  She cannot win. She's an idiot. The majority of America knows she's an idiot. Whenever she opens her mouth all that comes out is word salad. The news keeps her around because she's entertaining and not hard on the eyes.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:21:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And yet you believe that an idiot cannot win (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mallyroyal, flhiii88

                    What was George W. Bush then? Ronald Reagan? Sarah Palin won the Governorship of Alaska against an incumbent and a former governor, don't be stupid and think they cannot win. See, how they win is like this. You believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that a person like that (I.E. Reagan, W, Palin) cannot win. You then see the Democratic candidate or incumbent and see that you didn't get everything you wanted or more likely just wanted to see him curse out members from the other party, which wouldn't do anything but assure him the "angry black brotha" title from that fully white corporate world known as the media. Then, in a low turn out, close election, where 271 is the total, the person wins the election, where you blame the loss on the Democratic candidate, rather than yourself and people who think like you. Yes, this is why I say that liberals don't understand the game of politics like conservatives do.

                    •  Bush was not an idiot (0+ / 0-)

                      He did a good job of looking like one so people would underestimate him and they did. He was smart enough to surround himself with people who knew what they were doing and let them have at it.

                      Palin on the other hand will surround herself with her fellow idiots. Her husband would be "first duuuude" and the rose garden would become the presidential trailer park.

                      Palin can't win. The corporate media won't let her.

                      I will agree with you that liberals don't understand the game of politics like conservatives do. Conservatives hold each other accountable. Liberals do not.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:43:38 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No, that was Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mallyroyal, flhiii88

                        Bush was the figurehead of the whole operation. Paul O' Neill underscored this when he talked to Bush about those tax cuts in 2002, and then talked to Cheney, where he told him, "Its our due since we won and Reagan proved deficits don't matter." Rove has been with Bush since they beat Ann Richards in 1994. Rumsfeld was a former Secretary of Defense, he knew what he was doing with Iraq better than Bush ever did. Go back to Reagan, he didn't know jack shit,and was senile, but Nancy was the gatekeeper to him, and H.W. Bush, along with James Bakker, and Michael Deaver were the powerhouses there. All Republicans need is a figurehead. Thats it.

                    •  Reagan and W. DIDNT quit (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Cali Techie

                      their Governor jobs after 2 1/2 years. Reagan and W. don't have the NAILS IN A CHALKBOARD voice that Palin has.

                      •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

                        Reagan and Bush were multi term governors of their states. They didn't quit before the end of their first terms as governor to go on the speaking circuit to make lots of money and to evade charges of ethics violations for using state resources and money for her own personal benefit.

                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:56:15 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  And I don't say the grass is greener (0+ / 0-)

              it's dirt brown no matter where you look.

              Even the Democrats admit they suck, just not as much as the Republicans.

              Whatever happened to Democrats not sucking? Why are we settling for suck? Why can't we get things done when we have the largest majorities seen in over a generation? Why can't Democrats govern?

              I'm looking for results and all I'm getting are excuses.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:45:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  there are explanations. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                terrypinder

                they've been given plenty.  since you're on the site I assume you've seen them.  repub obstinance, media complicity, creating a conventional wisdom that runs counter to what you and I want done.  the reality is the admin has to negotiate through all that.

                now if you want to call explanations excuses, thats your thing.  it's not mine.  I'm generally pleased with what the admin has accomplished, all things considered so we're looking at the same glass and coming to differenct conclusions about its contents.

                What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:05:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Those aren't explanations (0+ / 0-)

                  Those are excuses.

                  The Republicans were able to shove all but the worst of their agenda through including huge erosions of our civil liberties with bare majorities in Congress.

                  What the administration has accomplished is but a mere shadow of what was promised. Sure there are victories, but the spoils are hardly worth having?

                  Health Care Reform? Please. It was written by the very industry it was meant to reform. We're going to be paying through the nose for health insurance that won't cover crap in 2014 thanks to the lack of a public option. Insurance companies are already taking advantage of loopholes in the legislation. Sure 30 million more people will have a policy, but will that policy enable them to obtain affordable coverage?

                  The other "victories" are nothing more than marks on a scorecard.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:10:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  as I said (0+ / 0-)

                    now if you want to call explanations excuses, thats your thing.  it's not mine.

                    and now you're getting into opinion stuff so we disagree and lets leave it at that.  I don't see things the way you do.

                    What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:12:44 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes, these sons of bitches are crooked. (0+ / 0-)

                    The Democrats don't act this way because we actually believe in what the Constitution stands for and not just make love to it while stabbing it with an ice pick like Republicans do.

  •  come on down to Mississippi (5+ / 0-)

    ... or Alabama, or Tennessee, or any other really read state, and you'll see what the difference is, and you'll see what their long-term plans are.  I understand your concern about how slow change is coming under Democrats, but you better understand one thing: the long-term Republican plan is a theocracy, and under that theocracy you might very well be dead.  I live among Republicans and I hear that shit quite often.  The kinder ones won't kill ya, but they sure don't want you to have any rights.

    Or me, either, since I'm an atheist.  I'm also on their list of who-they'd-like-to-kill.

    For the Republicans, this isn't even about politics anymore... it's about enforcing "the will of God."  And that's what they're working toward.

    So, if you don't know why "the Democrats suck less than the Republicans" isn't a viable enough campaign slogan to motivate a lot of us, then you don't know Republicans well enough.  I enthusiastically support and vote for Democrats, and it's never been because I think Democrats are so great.  It's because I know how fucking bad the Republicans are, and I want to leave them nothing in the governance of this country.

    "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

    by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:03:42 AM PDT

    •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

      I lived in the south. I've spent lots of time in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. I know what it's like down there. Same as it's always been. The crazy nutjobs have always been there. They're just more visible now because they're spooked.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:06:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  they're amped up now (3+ / 0-)

        When Dubya got elected, with his evangelical ties, they got excited because they thought they saw victory for their theocratic plans.  Bush's term emboldened them, and now they think they'll really get to take over and enforce their will.  I've lived in Mississippi all my life, and they've always been bad, but I gotta tell ya, in the past 5-6 years they've gotten much worse than they've ever been.  They really do seem to be modelling themselves on the Taliban.  

        The harder-core Baptists have become seperatists.  They home-school their kids and deliberately breed as many as they can, and they have as little interaction with "secular" society as they can.  And they're arming up, big time.  And since the rise of FOX News, their paranoia is amped up even more.  Hell, my co-worker's brother is mad at her for contributing to the ASPCA because he thinks they're coming to take his guns and Bible away from him.  Yep - the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is now considered an "ungodly Commie plot."

        Anyway, if I can't convince you of the import of keeping Republicans out, then I can't, but I know these people and I know what they want to do with us, and I'm going to be fighting them with everything I've got, even if the Democrats are disappointing.  The Democrats try to do good things but are ineffectual.  The right-wing tries to do bad things, and they're pretty good at it.  That's enough difference for me.

        "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

        by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:16:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I've seen it all before (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not afraid of them. They aren't going to gain control because the corporate interests aren't going to let them.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:19:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well, they run the South with an iron fist... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            terrypinder, flhiii88

            There are a lot of towns here where you can't even buy books or magazines or Sundays because of "blue laws," and you'd think the businesses would've struck that down.  And Wal-Mart knuckled under on a lot of the things they wanted to do to recognize rights of gay employees, because the evangelicals started boycotts.

            Like I said, if I can't convince you, then I can't, but I know I'm going to stay in the fight, because I see this stuff happening.  It's not going to happen with any help from me... and that includes apathy.  I'm not shrugging it off.

            "Glenn Beck ends up looking like a fat, stupid child. His face should be wearing a chef's hat on the side of a box of eclairs. " - Doug Stanhope

            by Front Toward Enemy on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:32:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nothing new there either (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              I'm a veteran of the south. I know what it's like. The yay-hoos are just louder that's all.

              I'm anything but apathetic. I'm pissed. I'm tired of being courted by Democrats with their hands out for campaign contributions, who make promises they have no intention of keeping, and who work against me at almost every turn.

              Apathy is not giving a shit. Apathy says I just walk away from DKos and not try to wake people the fuck up. If I was apathetic this diary wouldn't be here because I wouldn't have taken the time to write it.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:52:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Perhaps the problem is your assumption that (0+ / 0-)

                politics is about "being courted", and that your role should be to give them money, and their role should be to do things for you.

                That kind of relationship is what one has between a self-interested party and a lobbyist.

                The responsibility of a citizen in a society like ours is to be an active participant in their own self-governance - not a passive protester.

                It is not an elected official's job to do it for you; it is our job, and theirs, to work with one another to improve society and provide necessary services.

                I don't think you are apathetic, but I do think you are trapped in a confrontational, passive, protest role.

                Elected officials, Democratic and Republican and independent, work within the system that exists. It constrains them and impedes their efforts - including efforts to do what we elect them for.

                If you are tired of the way things are working, then isn't it rather naive to keep thinking that if only we can find a perfectly virtuous superhero, everything will be fine?

                Or, if only we could wave a magic wand, and transform ordinary people of good will who have taken the unusual step of enduring the river of shit any candidate for public office has to wade through, in order to be in a position to affect change as an elected official, and that magic wand would turn them magically into perfect virtuous superheros, then everything would be ok?

                Isn't it irrational to continue making the same assumption over and over, and failing to see results?

                Doesn't it suggest that the problem lies elsewhere?

                Perhaps in the system that needs reform, AND (it is important to resist simplistic magic bullet thinking and either/or thinking), AND perhaps we citizens need to become more actively involved, in a positive way, as partners in our own governance?

                Meet with your elected official, visit their office, not as an angry protester, but as a concerned citizen.

                Take the time to build a personal relationship with them. They are a human being, just like you. Tell them your personal story, ask them their personal story - and show sincere interest in it.

                You'd be surprised how effective that is. Most politicians encounter only insincere people who want to exploit them, or angry people who want to lynch them.

                Ask them how their work has affected their family life. Sympathize with how courageous they were to submit themselves to an election gauntlet, and how unfortunate it is that so much of their time every day, 365 days a year, has to be spent fundraising for the next campaign, instead of doing what they ran for in the first place. Ask them why they ran. Thank them for being willing to do it, acknowledging that you would never put yourself through that.

                And, ask them what YOU can to do help. Ask them how YOU can make it easier for them to help their constituents.

                And then do it.

                Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

                by RandomActsOfReason on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 12:24:48 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm done asking what I can do for them (0+ / 0-)

                  I've been doing for them for more than 40 years. It's time for them to deliver on promises made not just in 2008, but years before.

                  People are not going to vote for people who have a track record of not leading as their leaders.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:59:12 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Again, you're not doing for "them" (0+ / 0-)

                    that is your problem. You need to understand that we do for us.

                    If your elected officials aren't doing what you want, and that has been the pattern you have seen for 40 years, don't you think you should try a different approach?

                    What do you solve by not voting for them? You are essentially voting for worse candidates. You don't get to avoid the consequences of living in the US by spiting a candidate you think didn't do what you want.

                    What does that accomplish? Nothing. In fact, you lose any leverage or influence at all, because the candidate that wins did so without your vote, and is probably a conservative Republican.

                    How exactly does that serve your causes, whatever they are?

                    Have you ever worked to develop a collaborative, friendly and respectful relationship with your elected representatives?

                    Have you ever met with them in a forum where you weren't screaming at them and demanding from them? Have you ever asked them about their families, about what it is like to have to spend more time every day begging for money for the next election than doing the work they were elected for?

                    Have you ever put a human far on YOUR agenda? Have you ever shared your personal story, one on one, with an elected representative - not in a hostile, confrontational manner, not out of an effort to beat them down, but out of a desire to help them understand your point?

                    Have you ever ASKED an elected official, "what can I do to help you get this done?" ("this" being whatever issue you feel they have not addressed).

                    Have you, are you, participating in efforts to reform our political system and get money out of it?

                    Are you aware of the Coffee Party USA Fair Elections initiative?

                    That's nice that "you're done asking them". Go an sit at home and wait for a Messiah. That's really produced results so far.

                    What a self-defeating, counterproductive strategy - shoot yourself in the foot, and then cry that you can't run fast enough.

                    Always make new mistakes - Esther Dyson

                    by RandomActsOfReason on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 07:46:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  No shiiiit n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie

    Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.

    by LWelsch on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 06:04:44 AM PDT

  •  You're right about this... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cali Techie, Ruff Limblog

    "We suck less than the Republicans do" isn't exactly an inspiring campaign message.

    "The truth shall set you free - but first it'll piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    Save the Internet!

    by One Pissed Off Liberal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:12:28 AM PDT

  •  i don't wish to be foul but ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flhiii88

    AMERICA IS FUCKED IF THE REPUBLICANS WIN

    i know that this is a serious forum but i must say that i think that sarah palin is a skank

    by patrianostra on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:13:13 AM PDT

  •  For a long time Kossack and a (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mallyroyal, GOVCHRIS1988, flhiii88

    democrat you seem clueless...at least your comments about the South and Sarah Palin make you sound that way. I wouldn't normally be mean but you are also suggesting that the repubs would run things the same as the Dems...clueless.

    Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

    by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:20:56 AM PDT

    •  I am far from clueless (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ruff Limblog

      I lived in the south for most of my life. I was born and raised there.

      The current Democratic leadership is for the most part incompetent and feckless. They wilt at the first sign of controversy or opposition. The knee-jerk firing of Shirley Sherrod was a classic example of that.

      The Obama administration recoils from bad press. They are allergic to any criticism from Faux Nooz.  They give away the store to Republicans who sabotage what originally was great legislation and turn it into rubbish and then later point to it as an example why Democrats shouldn't be in control.

      The current Democratic leadership doesn't have the courage of their convictions. They don't enforce party loyalty among their Congressional delegations. There's no discipline, there are no consequences for not forwarding the party agenda.

      Again, insulting me is not going to get me to magically start agreeing with you.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:27:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you do though. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        reddbierd, GOVCHRIS1988, flhiii88

        sound clueless.  when the thesis question is "is it worse for repubs to be in power"

        and then when we give examples of how they repubs have behaved during this admin you say you don't care about how the repubs are behaving currently it's dems you're concerned about

        it sounds clueless.  just ranting for a rant's sake.  you do see that right?

        every response to a criticism of your line of thinking begins "no it's not" followed by your opinion.  thats how my 10 year old kid argues.  thats a stone fact, not an insult.

        What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:32:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's your opinion (0+ / 0-)

          I'm a bit sleep deprived, but I'm not clueless.

          I know how the Republicans have behaved during this admin. I see it right along with you. The thing is when the Republicans were in the majority, they didn't allow the Democrats to do what the Republicans are doing now.

          I recall when Democrats threatened to filibuster the Republicans threatened the nuclear option (i.e. removing the filibuster). What do the Democrats do when the Republicans threaten a filibuster? They give in to the Republicans.

          The Republican leadership insists on party discipline. Even if a Republican is from a relatively liberal state or district they are required to vote the party line or face consequences from the leadership.

          The Republicans are successful because they hold each other accountable. Democrats do not. That wasn't always the case but it is certainly true now.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:38:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, its because they have no other plan. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            reddbierd, mallyroyal

            Thats the gist of the whole thing. For them, its hang together, or lose power for a generation, which is where they are headed. Their world does not work. Democrats actually believe that these guys are Americans who only have a difference of opinion. That is a great quality to have in our government, not weakness. Republicans are the one who believes that we are the enemy, who's philosophy is one that has not ever worked, and when it doesn't work, blames you, me, Mallyroyal,for the problems. We can't move forward by giving these people more power, which you are advocating here. We shouldn't be pushing out the people who are actually advocating for a civil government, and doing what you want won't do anything but exacerbate that incivility.

            •  WRONG (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              I'm not advocating giving the Republicans more power.

              That's the LAST thing I'm advocating.

              I'm saying that's exactly what will happen if the Democrats don't start governing like they are the majority party. It may already be too late.

              Historically the party that owns the White House loses seats in Congress during the mid terms. That sweeping change Obama promised during his campaign in '08 is going to be much more difficult to accomplish after November. Why? Because the people who voted in droves for Obama in '08 are going to stay home. I'm not telling them to stay home. I'm not advocating they stay home. I'm pointing out the result of not delivering on promises made.

              People are hurting. The real unemployment rate is over 15%. The fact Democrats have not been able to overcome the Republicans and govern even though they hold the largest majorities seen in over a generation means people are going to start holding the Democrats responsible for their inability to find work, feed and clothe themselves, and keep their homes. There are people who need health care RIGHT NOW and can't get it. Many of whom will die before 2014, not that it would matter anyway because even though they would have a policy it won't cover what they need because the health care reform bill sets no minimum standard for coverage, which a public option would have done.

              Despite my generalized anger at the Democratic Party, I'm pretty happy with my own representatives. There's only one I'd like to get rid of and hopefully she's going to retire at the end of her term (Feinstein). But I'm not giving or working for anyone at the national level because the national party couldn't give two shits about LGBT rights. It's a carrot they dangle in front of us in order to get us to empty our wallets into their campaign coffers.

              I'm trying to tell you cheerleaders all is not well and simply cheerleading is not going to fix it. The party needs to start delivering to its constituencies or they're going to lose and lose big. It's probably already too late.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:02:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I have to say, thats not what I'm hearing from (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mallyroyal

                Obama's voters. The ones that "he" brought into the fold. Those first time, disaffected voters. These guys actually listened to stuff he said on the campaign, that it wouldn't take "one year or one term." They are the most enthused about voting, since they see the other side, and know that Obama cannot succeed if they are not put back into office again. They know that everything that was passed right now would not have been done if there was a Republican congress. Half of them remember 1994 and 2000, and don't wanna relive it again. They don't see Obama as an update of FDR and are pretty happy with that. They like that he tries to talk with Republicans instead of badger them back, which is why they are voting Democratic again. They take the long view in this country. Its the ones that were not there when he was running at the beginning that are threatening to stay home again, thinking a replay of 1994 will better the nation.

                •  this is what I hear too. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  GOVCHRIS1988

                  to the point I wonder about the folks who swear true progressives feel like this diarist.  because in my deep blue granola biking neighborhood in my deep blue city in my "blue at the ends, red in the middle" state I frankly don't see ANY.  

                  folks here are still mostly behind the pres. and his policies.

                  What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                  by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:29:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Based upon polling (0+ / 0-)

                  you're in the minority. There's a pretty big enthusiasm gap between Democratic and Republican voters. The Republicans are far more enthusiastic than the Democrats are.

                  I'm trying to point out why there's an enthusiasm gap and using my own complaints as an example. You can't make promises to people, fail to deliver or worse renege on those promises and expect them to vote for you the next time around. Human nature doesn't work that way.

                  I don't see Obama as an update of FDR, or even as a progressive. However I do expect him and the Democrats to at least fight for what they promised to deliver and they aren't doing that. No amount of cheerleading in the world is going to change that.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:32:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Of course, their out of power (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mallyroyal

                    and they are flogged up by the fact that they think our President is some commiemarxistsocialisthomosexualrapistmurderermuslim who is hellbent on harming white people. We are saner than them, so we don't get there until September-late November.

                    •  Complacency (0+ / 0-)

                      will kill us.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:11:41 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  So does doom and gloom (0+ / 0-)

                        It keeps us dead. Encouragement helps alleviate that.

                        •  That's rich (0+ / 0-)

                          since your main argument is it will be doom and gloom if Democrats don't win this year. That's your whole reasoning why people should vote.

                          I'm telling you that's not an effective message. Neither is "Vote for us or else," or "We're the lesser of two evils."

                          Democrats need to point to some real change that has impacted peoples' lives in a real and direct way right now. The problem is they can't. All they can do is say "We tried but we couldn't break the filibuster."

                          Oh and "Vote for us! We're feckless and weak even when we have the biggest majorities seen in a generation," is also not a particularly inspiring campaign message either.

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:25:27 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Lets seeSpeaker Bohner, Majority Leader McConnell (0+ / 0-)

                            and President Obama. In a battle of wits and information, he would win. Votes are another matter.
                            You're saying were weak and ineffective yet ignore that this President got more done than Lyndon Johnson did in his six year Presidency. But to you, they haven't done enough. So, lets welcome Republicans where nothing but gridlock will ensue.

                            On the filibuster, do we have 67 votes to break it? The slogan hurts. It may not be effective, but its true.

                          •  The fact it takes 67 votes (0+ / 0-)

                            to break a filibuster illustrates my point beautifully.

                            The Republicans were able to get more done with smaller majorities yet the Democrats can't seem to do anything.

                            Okay, now you've made a claim. How do you square your claim Obama has done more in one year than Johnson did in six?

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:33:58 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  By the way (0+ / 0-)

                            you can't simultaneously claim to have made more progress than LBJ and complain that you can't overcome a filibuster.

                            You can't have it both ways. Getting things done requires the ability to pass legislation and if you can't pass legislation you're not getting things done.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 02:02:52 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                •  That may not be what you're hearing (0+ / 0-)

                  but it is what I'm hearing. BTW, I'm an Obama voter and I'm saying this. That means you ARE hearing it from an Obama voter and I'm not unique by a long shot.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:11:05 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  and your hearing it from me (0+ / 0-)

                    In Georgia, Red State. Different perspectives. Democrats are as demoralized here as they are in California.

                    •  I am not unfamiliar with Georgia (0+ / 0-)

                      I used to live in Atlanta (and Alpharetta). You're not as likely to hear what I'm saying in Democratic strongholds.

                      Take off those rose colored glasses. Obama is not the savior and he is not perfect. He has made several blunders and the Democratic leadership has pissed off several key constituencies.

                      Ignore the enthusiasm gap at your own peril.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:16:23 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I never thought he was. He is the same guy I (0+ / 0-)

                        elected President. Most of what he said on the campaign that he would do is either in action or done already. He said on the trail himself that he wasn't perfect and that it would be hard to enact change in America. It seems you want a savior to do what you should be active in doing. You want a savior that would do all of these things that you want done, be damned if he doesn't have the votes.

                        Voting doesn't move the debate, but it helps. Going out there and talking to people about our issues helps. Fighting for our issues helps, not giving up when things don't happen as we want them too. I'm aware of the enthusiasm gap. It scares me. Thats why I am trying to encourage people instead of discouraging them.

                        •  And I'm talking to you about my issues (0+ / 0-)

                          and all I get in return is

                          "You're gonna make us looooooooose!!!!!"

                          Please.

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:27:02 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I didn't say YOU would make us lose (0+ / 0-)

                            Your mindset says that when you just say outright that the President will lose in 2012, regardless of a Republican platform or candidate. That your "there all the same platform" that ushered in President Bush and Speaker Gingrich also helps that come to fruition.

                          •  Boy life is gonna suck if Republicans come back (0+ / 0-)

                            We're back to that again.

                            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                            by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 02:03:41 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not gonna get into it with you (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mallyroyal

        you can be and do whatever you want. If you think that Sarah Palin would respect your lifestyle more than Obama so be it. I will say this about your story though.
           You say your mom was a real democrat fighting against the odds to make the world a more better place. And that your dad was basically a dino (dem in name only) who just followed someone else and then reverted to republicanism at the first opportunity even though it goes against his own best interests. I think you take after your dad.
           Feel free to think whatever ridiculous ideas you want to about the world you've made up in your head; but as soon as you present that nonsense here, expect to hear the truth. We've fought too hard and made too much progress (however easily criticized progress is and always will be) to let simpletons try and subvert it.

        Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

        by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:08:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're putting words in my mouth (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ruff Limblog

          I never said I think Palin would respect my RIGHTS (oh the soft bigotry of calling my orientation a lifesytle).

          You are the ones who refuse to see the truth. I'm pointing out to you the consequences of poor leadership, but alas y'all are too busy cheerleading Pyrrhic victories and empty rhetoric like it's going to make people who are demoralized go out and vote for Democrats even though they haven't delivered in any meaningful way.

          And of course when the Democrats lose seats in November, and when Obama loses in 2012, you're going to point to the people who the Democrats left behind and say it's their fault for not showing up.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:13:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But you left Democrats. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal

            Democrats have been there. You left them because they didn't work on your issues fast enough. After a couple of years of the flogging you will take from Republicans, you will be back again. I guarantee it.

            •  I never left (0+ / 0-)

              the Democratic Party is leaving me. It veers to the right every time someone yells the L word.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:34:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Bull, you don't vote for them, you left them (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mallyroyal

                And two, didn't you run from LIBERAL as well as many others on here. What the hell is a "progressive" anyway? Isn't that a liberal who is scared to describe themselves as liberal?

                •  Whatever (0+ / 0-)

                  The Democratic Party has moved to the right. It does that every time someone yells liberal.

                  Progressive and liberal are synonymous in my book. Obama is not a liberal. He's a moderate. Most Democrats are not liberals, they're moderates. There are very few liberals in the Democratic Party regardless of what Faux Nooz and Bill O'Lielly say.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:53:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  If lifestyle is insulting I apologize. (0+ / 0-)

            There is no bigotry involved at all. At most a poor choice of words. (I will need someone with an intellect to convince me of that though.)
               And President Obama is not going to lose in 2012. No matter how much you want him to.

            Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

            by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:24:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The fact you need convincing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              that calling my orientation a lifestyle is a poor choice of words shows your apology to be hollow.

              I don't want Obama to lose in 2012. That's yet another false accusation and further shows the hubris and sense of entitlement you have. I'm pointing out that's a consequence if Democrats fail to deliver what they promised.

              Democratic presidents have a horrible history when it comes to being re-elected. Are you aware Bill Clinton is the first Democrat since FDR to win two terms?

              I wonder why that is?

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:38:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Because we didn't want Dole as President? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mallyroyal

                Look, I'm not gonna agree with that guy above. I don't believe you or anybody chose to be gay. Its basically a part of you. However, you do choose who you vote for, and you're not re-electing Obama yet, your re-electing Pelosi for speaker essentially. You take her away, you take away a progressive voice of help. You call us entitled, yet since you didn't everything, your fretting that there is no difference, even when I showed you evidence to the contrary.

                •  Excuse me? (0+ / 0-)

                     I will not be f*cking defined this way. If I chose the wrong word I'm sorry. I have never said anything about that and I don't feel that. And this idiot means nothing to me but you just made it sound like I'm a f*cking moron. Please take that back.

                  Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

                  by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:57:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You did say this. (0+ / 0-)

                    "If you think that Sarah Palin would respect your "lifestyle" more than Obama so be it."

                    You may have not meant it in that way, but it isn't a lifestyle.

                    •  I do though take back (0+ / 0-)

                      Insinuating that you believe that he chose to be gay. I apologize for that. Just don't say its a lifestyle.

                      •  Thank you ignore my next comment. (0+ / 0-)

                           Sometimes these misunderstandings can hurt. I am not myself gay but have always supported full equal rights. I (like many of us I'm guessing) aren't aware of all connotations of all words and will sometimes get it wrong. I don't mind being corrected but the diarist is not a good authority. Thanks for taking it back.

                        Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

                        by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:16:41 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Ok. (0+ / 0-)

                         I have apologized over and over and I didn't put quotes around the word lifestyle and the word lifestyle doesn't mean choice it means "way of living" but I have no interest in defending it and I don't plan on using it again regardless. Will you please apologize for this (at least take it back).
                         "Look, I'm not gonna agree with that guy above. I don't believe you or anybody chose to be gay."
                         I never said that and I'm pissed about this line.
                      The diarist means nothing to me but I thought you sounded reasonable.

                      Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

                      by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:11:38 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  I'm not doing anything (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ruff Limblog

                  My Democratic congresscritters are safe this year whether I vote or not. My congresswoman is basically running unopposed. Barbara Boxer has a challenger in Carly Fiorina, but the coast hates her even the Republicans, so it's unlikely Boxer will lose. From the national standpoint nothing much will change here.

                  So if Pelosi ends up being replaced by Boehner it's not because of anything I've done.

                  I actually am voting. I don't want Meg Whitman as my governor.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:05:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  So now my apology isn't good enough for you? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GOVCHRIS1988

                And I have a sense of entitlement? You, sir person, are an ass.
                   Lifestyle means 'the way a person lives'. It doesn't mean that a gay person chooses to be gay. It isn't a substitute for 'rights'.
                   Here is this better?
                   "If you think that Sarah Palin would respect your lifestyle sexual orientation more than Obama so be it.
                   I apologized. You don't even have the decency to accept that and move on...you are a permanent victim apparently (which sounds like a teabagger to me).
                   Get a f*cking clue.

                Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

                by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:53:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Your non-apology (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Ruff Limblog

                  is not enough.

                  The word lifestyle is used by the right wing hate machine and it certainly does imply a choice.

                  When I was talking about entitlement I wasn't talking about you specifically. It's Democrats in general, but hey it's your choice if you want to take it personally. Calling me names isn't going to make any difference except that it makes you look like what you just called me.

                  I'm sending out a warning. You're choosing to see it as a threat and instead of heeding the warning you are shooting the messenger.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:09:54 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You seem to believe we need the warning though. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mallyroyal

                    None of us around here are thinking that Republicans won't win. Thats why we get annoyed when everyone here says they won't vote or vote third party. That essentially will mean these guys have a greater shot of taking it over than if we were behind them.

                    •  Democrats do need a warning (0+ / 0-)

                      Don't you see the cliff ahead? I'm telling you the Republicans are going to come back into power if the Democrats don't stop pissing off their constituents.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:04:19 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, four, real, true, heartfelt apologies (0+ / 0-)

                    later and I'm certainly through trying to calm your ruffled feathers.

                    Tip and rec the election diaries. Let's build momentum starting now.

                    by reddbierd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:21:07 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't get your apologies (0+ / 0-)

                      Because they all contain the word "if."

                      "I'm sorry if I..." is not an apology. It's a classic non-apology apology.

                      Take the word "if" out of it then you might have the makings of an apology.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:05:54 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Obama could suffer the same fate as (0+ / 0-)

                Herbert Hoover in 1932 if he doesn't start leading.

    •  I'm going to take this diary (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      reddbierd, GOVCHRIS1988

      as an emotional rant.  it seems to be about personal perception.  so I'm taking it for what it's worth.

      What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

      by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:28:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Take it any way you want (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ruff Limblog

        I see it as a wake up call, but then again I'm only the person who will single handedly hand over the world to the Republicans yet at the same time am not significant enough to take into consideration while governing.

        shrug

        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

        by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:30:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  all or nothing. right. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          reddbierd

          thats obviously what I was saying lol.  have fun.

          What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

          by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 07:32:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You don't get it (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ruff Limblog

            Let me put it like this.

            How would you like your rights to be put up to a public vote?

            How would you like to be told if you want your rights you have to vote a certain way, so you do. Then your rights are held hostage again for the next election, and the election after that, and again, and again, and again?

            You'd be pretty pissed off wouldn't you?

            When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

            by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:09:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  thats a different frame (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              GOVCHRIS1988

              than "will it make any difference if the repubs get in power"

              you don't think any black people voted before the passage of the civil rights act?  or, getting to the heart of the matter, were right not to, in places like my hometown of Philly?  thats not how folks old enough to remember the times when it would have been exactly like what you say for me, have to say on the matter.  in other words thats not how I was raised.  I can't even credit it.

              what you do is back, campaign for, and vote for candidates who will do what you want.  for you, that may be a 3rd party or something, since you've given up on Dems.

              I'm not there with you.  not by any stretch.  I stand with you on your struggle but I oppose any action that will bring the repubs closer to any electoral victory.

              creating a meme that there's literally no difference between the way the parties govern is unconscionable to me.  I understand you're angry.  but you're (IMO) saying "fuck everyone else I want MINE" and I can't get behind that.

              What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

              by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:22:26 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  They did. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal

              Jim Crow. But there is a difference, we fought. We didn't run when a damn politician didn't do what they wanted. Our folks didn't run, even when they threatened them with death.

              •  Who is running? (0+ / 0-)

                Geez. Stop with the accusations! Are you dense?

                When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:40:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  aren't the two planks of this (0+ / 0-)

                  rant:

                  -"whats the difference between dems and repubs"

                  and

                  -"they need to earn my vote"

                  so it follows logically that you're not gonna vote dem in 2010 right?

                  thats "running" in this context.  it's not like they're running against nobody.

                  you can feel how you want.  and we can feel how we want about how you feel, right?

                  What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                  by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:42:14 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I agree with this (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mallyroyal

                    CT seems to be in these ranks right now. Nothing you have said disputes this.

                  •  Then it's pointless (0+ / 0-)

                    to keep engaging me, no?

                    Yet here you are.

                    And your logic is flawed.

                    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                    by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:28:22 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  But we don't give up (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mallyroyal

                      Thats the greatest difference between us.

                      •  Whatever (0+ / 0-)

                        Keep going the way you're going. When Democrats lose their majorities in November I'm going to just say (once again) I told you so.

                        We saw under George W. Bush the strategy of "stay the course" was bad, yet here Democrats are employing the exact same strategy.

                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:35:48 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  They could lose. Then again they couldn't (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          mallyroyal

                          Thats the think about what hasn't happened yet. It hasn't happened yet. You're treating this like its a foregone conclusion, because you aren't even fighting to make it better. So when they do lose, your not telling me anything. When you launch your first complaint about why Congress isn't passing legislation, but investigating Obama, I will say, "I told YOU so."

                    •  my logic is flawed? (0+ / 0-)

                      I thought you "backed things up"  tell me exactly how, please.

                      (see thats how it's done.  not just blurting out "no it isn't" and putting more opinion.)

                      What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                      by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 12:10:45 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I do back things up (0+ / 0-)

                        I see no point in rehashing what I've already said. You're not listening anyway because you'd rather screw your eyes closed stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" instead of looking at the real problem facing Democrats this year.

                        It's the Democrats' to lose and they're going to lose it because they fail to see that inaction and excuses are a recipe for electoral disaster.

                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 02:11:32 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

              •  Jim Crow Laws (0+ / 0-)

                were not decided by public vote. They were enacted by racist legislators in the south to keep former slaves and their descendants from being a part of the democratic process. The 14th Amendment was put into place specifically to protect people from Jim Crow laws and Prop. 8.

                When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 02:08:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Here's one difference__ (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mallyroyal

    Republicans will start another war. Like Bush did. Like Bush's father did. Like Reagan did. Like all Republicans like to do.

    •  They've already got two (0+ / 0-)

      there aren't enough resources to start a third one.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:33:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That won't stop them. (0+ / 0-)

        A Republican wins the White House in 2012, with a Republican congress, War of Arabia 3, starring Iran will be on.

        •  Well then (0+ / 0-)

          I suggest Democrats had better get busy then.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:40:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ok, so as a Democrat, or liberal, or"Progressive" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal

            What will you do? I'm going to OFA to volunteer and help out. How bout you? Gonna sit there and wait for the crap, or fight to keep the sludge off?

            •  None of the above (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ruff Limblog

              The Democrats at the national level have done nothing to earn my continued support. Does that mean I'm not going to vote for them? Of course not. I'm not an idiot. However I'm not giving them another cent or another minute of my time until they show me they are serious about what I consider important, and it's a lot more than just LGBT rights. I simply held that up as an example.

              The problem is the current crop of Democrats with a few exceptions (Pelosi being one of them) back down from every fight the Republicans start. They don't stand up to the bullying or the smear machine. Instead they capitulate at the first sign of any resistance. Some examples:

              Health Care Reform: Obama and the Democrats invited the health insurance companies, the for profit medical industry, big pharma, and representatives of various business interests (a.k.a. lobbyists) to help craft the reform legislation. Noticeably absent were organizations who advocate universal health care, single payer, or the public option. As a result the public option was quickly jettisoned in order to get the health insurance companies to come on board. The insurance industry also demanded the individual mandate and got it. The now law is written in such a way that everyone must now pay into the system but there are no minimum standards for coverage or any controls over premiums. People who have pre-existing conditions will be able to get a policy but whether or not those policies will actually cover their pre-existing condition and related ailments is as of yet unclear. My bet is insurance companies will find a way around it just as some have found a way to stop writing new policies for children. It's likely people will be paying thousands a month for policies that cover next to nothing. They'd be better off banking that money and using it to pay for their care.

              On the biggest environmental disaster in the history of the world, the Obama administration let the company that caused the accident have complete and total control of the situation including using the Coast Guard to restrict where the media could go.

              When Breitbart released a doctored video of Shirley Sherrod at a NAACP convention and it was picked up by Faux Nooz the Obama administration fired her before ever checking to see if the allegations against her were true. She was literally ordered to stop her government owned car on the side of the road and tender her resignation.

              In 1996 Obama was a supporter of marriage equality for LGBT people. He's on the record. He now says he is against marriage equality and that LGBT people should be content with separate but equal civil unions. Within hours of the release of Judge Walker's ruling on the constitutionality of Prop. 8 Obama said he could not support same sex marriage because of his Christian beliefs. Why did he feel he had to say that?

              In Arkansas, unions supported "progressive" Bill Halter over "moderate" Blanche Lincoln while the Democratic establishment including Obama endorsed Lincoln even though polling showed Halter would win over the Republican. When Lincoln won the primary a White House aide slammed the unions for supporting Halter. It's a sure bet Lincoln is going to lose her seat because her constituents hate her.

              There are many other examples of leadership missteps by the Democratic leadership. Again it's not me who is going to punish them, its the voters who see that things haven't really changed in Washington so they're not going to bother to interrupt their daily routine to go vote for Democrats, while Republican nutjubs driven mostly by hatred and racism will flock to the polls. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been right pretty much every time.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 09:35:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ok. (0+ / 0-)

                On the legislation-all about compromise. He didn't work with them, they would have killed it the same way it was killed in 1994. Then the next Democratic President wouldn't dare touch health care reform. Two, your mad at one president that didn't pass it, and another that did, but included people you didn't like in the process. Unless you had the votes for single payer and the public option, all you were giving them was a chance to say something, but not have the support. So, the next battle is rectifying
                what is in this bill, not giving up now.

                On the oil spill, Congress still an impetus, but since our side is lackadaisical in support, there not moving upon it. It is even more ridiculous, even when the Administration acted on a moratorium, only to have it struck down by a judge cozy with those businesses.

                On Shirley Sherrod, I blame Breitbart and Fox News. and unfortunately, they have pull in this nation. They are a prime reason why I am encouraging people to vote, because if we don't they win.

                On gay marriage, in 2008, he said the same thing, and you voted for him. Why is it a problem now. Some people don't believe in same sex marriage, thats why they are not married to the same sex. Doesn't mean they believe it for you. Plus, people that opposed same sex marriage did vote for Obama in 2008. Without their support, he couldn't have won. Maddening, but true.

                I hope you are wrong too, because if you aren't, we both are gonna be hurting. and thats my prediction.

                •  I don't believe that for one minute (0+ / 0-)

                  Unlike in 1994 voters wanted health care reform. That's because 7 out of 10 bankruptcies are because of unpaid medical bills. The sick thing is the majority of those people had health insurance!

                  There were stories all over the media about how BCBS was using retroactive recision to deny benefits to breast cancer patients, one because she had a cold sore as a teenager and years after she started her policy.

                  In 2009 the public was praying for reform. They wanted to know up front how much a procedure cost. They wanted to be able to rest easy knowing they wouldn't be dropped from their health care plans the minute they got sick, etc. A widely published number of 70% of the people wanted the public option. What was the first thing the Democrats gave away in their negotiations? The public option.

                  Read my fingertips: I never said I wasn't going to vote for them. I simply said they didn't deserve my support. They don't deserve my money and they don't deserve my time. They don't deserve my vote either, but unfortunately I have no choice and that's what really pisses me off.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:36:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  and in 94, they got Newt Gingrich (0+ / 0-)

                    and didn't see reform for about 16 years. Again, Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman. Either they vote, or the two main sisters that wanted a "triggered public option." Makes you mad, but life is like that sometimes.

                    •  Life is like that (0+ / 0-)

                      I couldn't sum it up any better.

                      It's going to suck to be us when the Republican wagon comes back into town.

                      BTW, if you think I'm harsh, get a load of this guy.

                      Compared to him I'm treating Obama with kid gloves. I'm being nice.

                      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 11:46:10 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You know, David Michael Green can do that (0+ / 0-)

                        He is a professor at Hofstra University. He has nothing to lose. His income is solid when Republicans or Democrats are in office.

                        He's also the same guy who said this shit

                        http://www.commondreams.org/...

                        I don't like that asshole, nor many of the jackleg assholes on there. David" I helped by sending an email to my congressman" Sirota? Really? Ralph Nadar. Come on.
                        Those guys never liked Obama, so what did you expect them to say when he is down.

                        •  I'm just pointing out that compared to him (0+ / 0-)

                          I'm a pretty tame critic.

                          And that's the best you can do is call him names and dismiss them because they never liked Obama? Are ad-hominem attacks the best you can do?

                          I'm not defending. I'm just asking. Because if that's the best you can do against that, you've got a problem.

                          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 12:04:18 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

      •  lol YOU don't get it. (0+ / 0-)

        What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

        by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:40:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Whatever (0+ / 0-)

          Gamesaying what I have to say is not proving your point nor is it a particularly good debating tactic.

          When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:41:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  saying "you don't get it" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GOVCHRIS1988

            over and over isn't either.  that was my point to you with that snarky post.

            like I said your main argumentative technique is "no it's not" lol you don't have any room to give debate lessons in here CT.

            What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

            by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 08:45:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When I say "no it's not" (0+ / 0-)

              I back it up. I also back it up when I say you don't get it. I don't simply toss off a condescending line and expect it to have impact.

              When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:37:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  you back it up with facile reasoning. (0+ / 0-)

                like your thing elsewhere where you descended into the hyperbolic and when I called you on it called it mere "rhetoric."

                "thats hyperbole"
                "no it's not it's rhetoric.  hyperbole is gross exaggeration"

                which of course the statement I originally called you on was:  "you can all say I'm causing the end of civilization..."

                thats not "backing it up" thats just talking.  there are plenty other examples of that up and down this comment section.

                What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:45:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You don't know what you're talking about (0+ / 0-)

                  You really don't. You think you do. You're not open to criticism and you've not launched a single coherent rebuttal to any of my points. That's where the cheerleaders FAIL.

                  As I look through all the comments, everything you and GOVCHRIS1988 have said still boils down to "Life will suck if the Republicans win."

                  I got news for you. The Republicans will be back and sooner than you think. Democrats have failed to undo the damage done by the last Republican administration. Two years in they're finally getting around to financial market reform, yet it doesn't go far enough. Instead of bringing back regulation that worked well for nearly 50 years after the Great Depression with some updates there's a whole different and untried mechanism being put into place.

                  If there's one things Democrats do well it's snatching failure from the jaws of victory.

                  When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:18:22 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  you also back it up with emotional (0+ / 0-)

                rants.  like when you asked me, in answer to my making fun of you for conflating my position with some "all or nothing" BS, how I'd feel about my rights being up for a vote.

                first of all, like that didn't happen to my mom and everyone older than her lol.  I'm a Black American.  there's pretty well-known history around such legislation you know.

                second of all like thats any sort of reply to me not taking the following seriously:

                I'm only the person who will single handedly hand over the world to the Republicans yet at the same time am not significant enough to take into consideration while governing.

                nobody's saying just you are.  but say your rant infects the consciousness of a few hundred fence-sitters lurking on here.  what then?

                add to yours the rest of the doomandgloom contingent and you have a trend.  one you can't shirk responsibility for.  you're the one who decided to speak out and make this diary.

                you can't blame some of us for disagreeing completely with your take on the matter, and further thinking that you're not helping Democratic electoral prospects with such a rant.

                What kind of "left" is it that consists only of mostly white middle class professionals with no observable skills? - citizen k

                by mallyroyal on Mon Aug 09, 2010 at 10:51:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  You sound burned out, mostly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mallyroyal

    I think you're taking the short term cycle in American politics too seriously and as an excuse to rant.  And you're not taking the long term trends and phenomena seriously enough except in the aspects you dislike.

    My short answer is that it will be 5-10 years, more likely the 10, until the changes you want on the national level really happen.  It's also historical pattern in the U.S. that the gaudy triumphs are usually illusions.  All the great changes happen after battles of attrition- the losing side is totally expended when it falls and eventually dies, and the other is so spent that it has to be put on life support for a time after its victory.

    •  The changes I want on a national scale (0+ / 0-)

      are not going to happen in 5 years, 10 years, or even 20 years. I'm not going to see them in my lifetime and unless something drastically changes in Washington we will never see them.

      Why? Because we aren't in control. Our government is no longer of the people, by the people, and for the people. Our government is under the control of huge multinational corporations who use legalized bribery in the form of campaign contributions and donations to organizations founded and run by politicians specifically designed to line their pockets. My mother could never get the access today she had back in the 60's and 70's. As a housewife or working mom, she wouldn't have the status to be able to get through the firewall of aides and staff.

      Our elected officials are out of touch with us and the only recourse we have is the ballot box. I've decided that I'm personally going to hold my elected officials accountable. If they are not willing to fight for what is right and they're willing to give up their principles in the name of political expediency then they don't deserve my support.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:25:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  With all due respect, Mr. Obama has NEVER (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GOVCHRIS1988

    supported gay marriage.  Why are you acting surprised?

    Also, as a former Marine, surely it's better that the Democrats get elected.  The Iraq War of Aggression is a rather big difference, no?

    And for what it's worth -- Thanks for serving.  Semper Fi, you Marines are the best.

    •  Yes he has (0+ / 0-)

      He is on record as supporting gay marriage back in 1996.

      And no I'm not surprised. He backtracked on that in 2008. What pisses me off is that he felt the need to make a statement opposing same-sex marriage within hours of Judge Walker's ruling on Prop. 8.

      This is in spite of him telling us he would be a "fierce advocate" for equality. He's not. Obama has failed to deliver on his promise of hope and change and the Democrats will be punished for it in November. Additionally I predict he will only serve one term like all but one Democrat elected since FDR.

      When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. -Jimi Hendrix -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Tue Aug 10, 2010 at 01:29:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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