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Gallup released a new poll showing that America is still just fine with making the rich pay more taxes.

PRINCETON, NJ -- A majority of Americans favor letting the tax cuts enacted during the Bush administration expire for the wealthy. While 37% support keeping the tax cuts for all Americans, 44% want them extended only for those making less than $250,000 and 15% think they should expire for all taxpayers.

Add it up, and that's 59% saying the rich shouldn't keep this tax break. Or, looking at it another way, 81% supporting tax cuts for the middle class. Even 43% of Republicans polled think they should either expire totally, or be extended only for the middle class. Of course, it's not just Gallup that's found this. Greg Sargent helpfully pulls all the polling together to show why this is "an argument Dems have a rather good shot at, you know, winning if they decide to go for it."

* A new National Journal poll finds that 56 percent support ending either all the Bush tax cuts or just the ones for the wealthy, while barely more than a third want to keep them all.

* The new Gallup poll shows that 59 percent of Americans -- and a majority of independents -- supports either ending all the Bush tax cuts or just the ones for the wealthy.

Indeed, Gallup finds that Obama's proposal -- ending the tax cuts for the wealthy but not for everyone else -- has the support of 44 percent, more than any other solution.

* A CNN poll in late August found that a majority, 51 percent, favors ending the tax cuts for the rich, and another 18 percent favor ending them all.

It also found that among independents, 44 percent favor ending the tax cuts for the rich, while another 21 percent favor ending them all. Letting the tax cuts for the rich expire has majority support in all regions of the country except the south.

* A recent CBS poll also found a sizable majority, 56 percent, think the tax cuts for the wealthy should expire....

UPDATE, 11:09 a.m.: Here's another one: A recent  Newsweek poll found 52 percent support letting the tax cuts for the rich expire, while only 38 percent support keeping them in place.

As Greg points out, people really seem to get the idea on this one--Obama and the Dems want a tax break for middle class America, and Republicans are fighting it to keep the rich from having their taxes raised. As he says, "this, of all things, is not an issue where Dems should conclude in advance -- as they often do -- that once Republicans go on the attack, it's game over and Dems can't possibly win the argument."

Ben Nelson has been the only Dem to blab his opposition to Obama's strong statement that "[W]e should not hold middle class tax cuts hostage any longer. We are ready, this week, to give tax cuts to every American making $250,000 or less." But he hasn't said anything about supporting a GOP filibuster, which might be why the White House seems confident that a veto threat isn't necessary.

Necessary or not, it might be something for the White House to rethink, because a really good fight over how the GOP is holding Obama's tax cuts for the middle class hostage to help the rich might be in order during the next 53 days.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:00 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  A veto threat is not needed (10+ / 0-)

    But I think an attack on the GOP as deficit peacocks might be timely.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:02:12 AM PDT

    •  A veto threat is needed (0+ / 0-)

      It will keep other Democrats from straying and put the Republicans on the defensive.

      "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

      by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:08:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It makes the President look weak (0+ / 0-)

        The MSM meme is that the President can count on a Congress of his own party. Threatening a veto - which is his ultimate weapon - will be played not as "I'm really serious about this", but as "He's so weakened that even Reid and Pelosi have abandoned him".

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

        by blue aardvark on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:21:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We went through this yesterday (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sherri in TX, clouz22

          The only way it makes a president look weak is if he or she doesn't follow through on it.  Rather, it's being vague that make him look weak.

          "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

          by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:26:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Anything the POTUS says is subjected (0+ / 0-)

            to endless analysis. You are completely neglecting how this can be, and will be, spun by those whose job it is to make the POTUS look bad.

            In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

            by blue aardvark on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:29:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

              Then I guess he shouldn't say anything about anything.

              "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

              by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:33:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Don't be deliberately dense (0+ / 0-)

                You know very well that a veto threat is newsworthy and carries a clear implication that the President expects Congress to do otherwise if not threatened.

                In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra

                by blue aardvark on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:37:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  OK, I'll modify that (0+ / 0-)

                  He shouldn't say anything that's the least bit controversial because his opponents may attack him for it.

                  "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

                  by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:39:07 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  It is stupid for a President to threaten to veto (0+ / 0-)

            a bill that will be passed by his party. Sending such a message would ensure that his party would do exactly what he hopes they don't do to either spite him or take cover. Have you tried exercising thinking lately or are you going to go from diary to diary peddling your lame meme that Obama does not really support dropping tax cuts for the rich?

            scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

            by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:41:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Talked about confused thinking (0+ / 0-)

              Paased by his party?  You mean, it would be with the votes of some in his party. The majority of the votes of a bill extending the tax cuts for the rich would come from Republicans.  Why would they do the opposite of what he wants to do?

              I never said Obama supports dropping tax cuts for the rich.  I've said he won't insist on it.

              "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

              by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:56:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Even the DLC thinks he should issue one (0+ / 0-)

              And some say Obama’s equivocation about whether he’d veto a bill that temporarily extends the tax cuts has only muddied the debate.

              "I think it would be helpful to have a more definitive line in the sand for Congress," said Jim Kessler, vice president for policy for the Third Way, a centrist Democratic think tank.

              http://dyn.politico.com/...

              "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

              by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 11:33:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  It is needed by you definitely. (0+ / 0-)

        scientia potentia est - Francis Bacon "...knowledge itself is power."

        by factPlusContextAlmostTruth on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:37:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  An attack on the GOP in general (3+ / 0-)

      sustained, unrelenting.

      Spray tons of carcinogens into the ocean to hide petroleum spewed from a hastily-drilled hole from a greedy corporation, but don't smoke pot.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:16:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  He did well on this in the press conference (6+ / 0-)

      He framed it really well--the rich get the same tax cuts on the first $250,000 of their income and the only question is whether they get $100,000 more on the rest of their millions.  That was good framing.  Also challenging the GOP to pass what we agree on and making it clear their strategy was to keep everyone else from getting the extension if the rich couldn't have MORE, more that they don't want to pay for.  The GOP is holding the middle class histage--again good framing.  He made their strategy crystal clear, for anyone who was listening.

      Why does Meg Whitman want China to win the race for green tech dominance?

      by Mimikatz on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:26:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  First they came for the rich . . . (4+ / 0-)

    Then they came for tea and crackers.

    "Who am I to give science the brush?" Sugarpuss O'Shea

    by semiot on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:03:35 AM PDT

  •  Very few people in this country think that (4+ / 0-)

    Paris Hilton needs a tax cut.

  •  Submit two bills. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Orbital Mind Control Lasers

    The Democratic leadership should submit two bills.

    One, would extend the reduction for those making less than $250,000.
    The other, would extend the reduction for those making more than $250,000.

    Then let congressmen and senators vote how they wish on each bill.

    That way, the Republicants would have to vote against the bill to cut taxes for most of us.

    Corporations are people; money is speech.
    1984 - George Orwell

    by Frank Palmer on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:05:54 AM PDT

    •  I figured that the Republicans woudl submit the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Orbital Mind Control Lasers

      second bill, but it would be interesting for Democrats to submit two.

      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

      by dinotrac on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Efff that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim, glbTVET

      The Republicans have already painted themselves into into the corner with the wealthy.

      "These old Wall Street boys are putting up an awful fight to keep the government from putting a cop on their corner." - Will Rogers

      by Lefty Coaster on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:12:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You know that (0+ / 0-)

        You know that, I know that, plenty of people don't know that.

        The more important part of this would be the vote on the extension for the rest of us. It's one thing to filibuster for an amanedment, it's another to block a bill your constituents want.

        Corporations are people; money is speech.
        1984 - George Orwell

        by Frank Palmer on Sat Sep 11, 2010 at 08:53:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  House has to originate the bills. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah

      The House could do the first extension and let the Senate try to amend in the tax cuts for the rich.  That could be filibustered.  Are there 60 votes for the rich?  Maybe not.  Make it work for us for a change.

      Why does Meg Whitman want China to win the race for green tech dominance?

      by Mimikatz on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:29:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's more than just the marginal rates (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PsychoSavannah

        Usually "taxing the rich" refers to letting the top rates revert to 37.5% and 39.5%, as they were before the first Bush tax cuts.  But it should also cover the 15% dividend tax rate (reverts to ordinary income rates), the 15% capital gains rate (reverts to 20%) and the estate tax (reverts to $1 million exclusion and 45% starting tax rates above that). The former were part of the second Bush cut and the estate tax was part of the first cuts.

        Goolsbee's area of expertise is tax rates.  Maybe he has some creative ideas on all this.

        Why does Meg Whitman want China to win the race for green tech dominance?

        by Mimikatz on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:32:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, much more in needed. (0+ / 0-)

          This is just a first step which can be done now.

          I'm in favor of raisning teh rates on higher incomes -- they were 70% on unearned incomes during the period when the economic growth rate of this country was highest -- but I'm more enthusiastic about closing loopholes.

          That would mean taxing dividends and capital gaiins at the rates of ordinary income.

          Corporations are people; money is speech.
          1984 - George Orwell

          by Frank Palmer on Sat Sep 11, 2010 at 08:50:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  That's why we need the filibuster and the Blue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xxdr zombiexx

    Dogs.  To prevent the tyranny of the majority from depriving the rich of their extra low taxes and loopholes.

    •  Help Us Fake Dems! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim

      Help the Rich keep far more than they can spend.

      It's the principle of the thing.

      If we start helping commoners, it's over.

      Spray tons of carcinogens into the ocean to hide petroleum spewed from a hastily-drilled hole from a greedy corporation, but don't smoke pot.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:17:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Tax cuts for millionaires" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, DefendOurConstitution

    Obama used the phrase often today in his presser, "Tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires".

    A good idea others should emulate.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06:02 AM PDT

  •  President Obama hit the perfect note, I think... (7+ / 0-)

    Note that he didn't say no tax breaks for the rich.  He said no more tax breaks for the rich than for the middle class.

    IE - they get the same tax breaks that non-rich folk do, that is, tax breaks on income up to $250,000.

    Very good way to address the class warfare shouts that are sure to follow.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06:14 AM PDT

    •  He should have repeated it more (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dinotrac

      And slowly, directly into the camera.

      Aw, who am I kidding?  Nobody in America was watching Obama when Judge Judy or Jerry Springer is on.

      "What about the headless bodies, Governor?" --- Members of the press yelling after a fleeing Jan Brewer, 9/1/2010

      by Pangloss on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:31:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  McJoan, you and your numbers! Just because (0+ / 0-)

    the majority clearly support keeping the tax cuts for the middle class and a majority supports eliminating them for the richest doesn't mean that we will win on this issue.

    The GOPosaurs are experts at turning this into a slogan like "tax increases that will kill jobs" whereas the Democrats cower at being accused of such a thing and come up with lengthy explanations that use logic.

    Unfortunately we have a very large ignorant populace that can be swayed by the facile slogans of the GOPosaurs.

    How do we fight it?  GOTV that clear, but we need more - we need Democrats with a spine to stand up and call the GOPosaurs liars when they lie and Dems that can make it clear in Congress: are you for tax cuts for the richest or for the working people?

    Then they came for me - and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.

    by DefendOurConstitution on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:07:35 AM PDT

    •  He did state that most economists think they dont (2+ / 0-)

      create jobs or stimulate the economy or at least not very well.  There is a pretty large body of research saying that the multiplier effect is very low and they don't pay for themselves at all, while measures that get money to lower-income people do, because they spend the money and thus boost demand in the economy.  The rich save more and also invest and spend much more overseas.

      Why does Meg Whitman want China to win the race for green tech dominance?

      by Mimikatz on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:37:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They've got the public (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DefendOurConstitution
    But do they have the will?

    "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

    by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:07:47 AM PDT

    •  The public, arguably, doesn't matter (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Into The Woods, ColoTim

      remotely as much as the tiny fraction that has all the money.

      Spray tons of carcinogens into the ocean to hide petroleum spewed from a hastily-drilled hole from a greedy corporation, but don't smoke pot.

      by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:18:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Except on election day (0+ / 0-)

        The days before and after, their money matters more than my voice.

        On that day, my vote and the vote of David Koch (assuming he lowers himself to vote) are tallied equally.

        And that one day is what determines whether politicians stay or become elected officials.

        So while it does not matter as much as it should, the fact that Republicans are ignoring the clear will of the people on this issue, does still matter.

        Discouraged? Disillusioned? Think about the roots of those words. Then take courage and resolve to avoid illusion.

        by Into The Woods on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:44:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Republicans took the bait, now set the hook (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike, shrike
    and reel them in.

    How hard can that be?

    "These old Wall Street boys are putting up an awful fight to keep the government from putting a cop on their corner." - Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:09:01 AM PDT

  •  "I call you my base" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, Hunter Huxley
    Man, as much as I'm sick of "blame Bush", I'd love to see that particular clip in a commercial about Republicans holding the middle class tax cut hostage as a favor for their rich "base".

    The difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Republicans are idiots and proud of it, Dems are idiots and ashamed of it.

    by Orbital Mind Control Lasers on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:09:38 AM PDT

  •  Good but (0+ / 0-)
    I'm not a poll person....

    Polls also say that people are anti-choice, anti-immigrant, anti-gay etc.

    We're not too fond of those polls so I just don't like to quote them.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:11:55 AM PDT

    •  Actually they don't. (0+ / 0-)

      Most recent polls don't show that for the majority.  CNN even has a poll in which a bare majority accepted gay marriage.

      Why does Meg Whitman want China to win the race for green tech dominance?

      by Mimikatz on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:38:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A GOP filibuster of middle class tax relief. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sherri in TX, jj32, Lefty Coaster, ColoTim

    Now that is change I can believe in.

    It would really aid in changing the narrative.

    1. The Dems could say: "See? The GOP only cares abhout tehir rich donors."
    1. The Dems and the President could also say: "See? You want to know why we didn't pass better things to fight unemployment? The GOP blocked them. Just like they are blocking your middle class tax cut."

    And don't just say it in stump speeches. Put that in TV and Radio ads.

  •  Will the Senate really block a bill (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, Betty Pinson

    that extends middle class tax cuts because it doesnt include tax cuts for the rich? That's the bet the WH is making, and I think they feel good about it either way. Either the bill doesnt get blocked. Or it does, and you can go to the voters with a pretty strong issue.

  •  Yeah, and a majority supported a public option (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim
    And we know how far that went.

    "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

    by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:12:13 AM PDT

  •  It should be coupled with this: (3+ / 0-)

    According to the the U.S. census  US capital investment in foreign countries has gone from $1.3 trillion in 2000 to $3.2 trillion in 2008 while at the same time the Bush tax cuts which overwhelmingly went to the wealthy cost 1.3 trillion  per politifact.  

    These two facts will stop the bleeding.

    Evolution is more grounded in my experience than angels-BHO

    by nokona on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:12:16 AM PDT

  •  ras says the opposite (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LordMike

    Rasmussen really has balls because he claims 54% want to keep the tax cuts for the wealthy. Hopefully this is the year he loses all credibility.

    •  So what if he loses credibility? (0+ / 0-)

      He delivers the narrative, so there will always be people who are willing to pay for his product.  For another example, see Fox News and their donation to the Republican Governor's Association.

    •  What a shock! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, PsychoSavannah, ColoTim

      That's what's he there for.  So, the right-wing echo chamber can cite him.

      I'm sure his question was something like, "Do you believe wealthy taxpayers should be singled out and punished . . . "

      "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

      by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:28:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah but, you see, that's a majority of (0+ / 0-)

    voters who favor letting the tax cuts for the rich expire.
    But the rich donors, the people our congresscritters actually serve, want to keep them.

    Splunge: It means I think Obama's great, but possibly not, and I'm not being indecisive.

    by jazzmaniac on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:13:26 AM PDT

  •  Rest assured the Dems will back away from it.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Paleo, ColoTim, glbTVET, Fish in Illinois

    If the Dems stay true to form they'll back away from this just like they backed away from the public option that the majority of Americans supported as well...

    •  Sad n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "The Greater Good and the Greater Profit are not compatible aims" -- Yann Martel.

      by glbTVET on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:22:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm betting they won't (0+ / 0-)

      Big O caved on the public option once it was obvious he didn't have the votes in the Senate. This is different. He made this a campaign promise, and more importantly, he reiterated it a few days ago.

      It comes down to whether his own party really wants to run from him now that he's on a roll. I don't think they will. I think he's made it clear enough that he's going to fight for this, and he's got the advantage of having them - all of them, red and blue alike, over a barrel. They can't shelve the issue or kick it around in committee forever.

      It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness - Eleanor Roosevelt

      by Fish in Illinois on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:53:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I said Dems, not Obama :) (0+ / 0-)

        If they are smart, and the WH takes some initiative, then perhaps he can pull them together, but it seems that the first instinct of 85% of Dem pols is to run to the right when any opposition presents itself, and even when their poll numbers drop as they run to the right, they seem to assume that it means they need to run to the right faster, not that their poll numbers are dropping BECAUSE they ran to the right....

  •  I think it would be better to (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah

    separate out the two, if they can.  Pass the low and middle-income extensions, then debate the wealthy ones....

    "Mediocrity cannot know excellence." -- Sherlock Holmes

    by La Gitane on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:13:47 AM PDT

    •  that sounds nice... (0+ / 0-)

      but the the low and middle income bill can be blocked in the senate for any set of nonsensical reasons -

      if taxes go up on the middle class Obama loses - it doesn't matter who's fault it was.  He's the president and his party is in charge.

      The GOP knows this - they hold all the cards.

  •  "WH is confident a veto threat is not needed" (0+ / 0-)
    Because a "compromise" is their end game.  Bet on it.

    "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

    by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:14:16 AM PDT

  •  but but but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim

    the President Ben Nelson says "NO".

    And "NO" it shall be.
    And the DNC will send Ben another $450K as a bonus for defending the interests of the rich in this country.

    This is how politics works these days.

    tryin to make it real, compared to what

    by shpilk on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:15:05 AM PDT

  •  This is such an immature country. (0+ / 0-)

    Don't these jobless, flea-bitten hippies know that the wealthy are better than them and that they should be HAPPY to provide them with more money than people can ever spend?

    Give up, you hippie liberals.

    Leave the Rich alone!

    The country is moving to the right and you all are just in denial.

    Spray tons of carcinogens into the ocean to hide petroleum spewed from a hastily-drilled hole from a greedy corporation, but don't smoke pot.

    by xxdr zombiexx on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:15:13 AM PDT

  •  Curious what the PPP poll results are. Can (0+ / 0-)

    anybody here show me where to find the PPP results here?

    All hope abandon ye who enter here.

    by this much on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:15:20 AM PDT

  •  Too bad brain dead Dems are undercutting it (2+ / 0-)
    ...by supporting extension of the Bush Billionaire Bailoput on the stump like cowardly pieces of shit.
    •  Which is why a veto threat is needed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      clouz22, Hunter Huxley

      They feel free to do so because no marching orders have been issued from the WH.  A veto threat would keep others from straying.

      "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

      by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:17:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Can't figure that one out (0+ / 0-)

      It's difficult to imagine Dem leadership would be ok with candidates opposing the current WH policy on the campaign trail.

      Must be some kind of eleventy dimensional chess strategy.

  •  Shhh!!!! Don't tell Bayh, Nelson and Conrad. nt (0+ / 0-)
  •  This proposed increase of taxation on (4+ / 0-)

    the rich is NOTHING. It's CHUMP CHANGE.

    What is needed is a surtax on stock transactions based upon income level; people who make money by speculation as opposed to working should be paying a premium - speculators are getting away with paying less in taxes than people who work for a living pay in taxes.

    It's goddamn bloody outrageous.  

    And not one goddamn Senator has addressed it, except Sanders.

    tryin to make it real, compared to what

    by shpilk on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:19:43 AM PDT

    •  It's not increasing taxation - it's letting the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah, dna2rna

      tax breaks expire.  They never would have been passed had they been permanent.  The Congress made a deal with the president that these would expire, and this is one deal I'd like to see Congress keep.

      •  Whatever .. yes, it's 'letting tax breaks expire' (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ColoTim

        the end result of what Obama proposes is a 3% or 4% increase starting at $250K on up.

        Not enough.

        Does not nearly begin to offset the fact that more than a quarter of the nation's wealth is held by the top 1%.

        tryin to make it real, compared to what

        by shpilk on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 11:07:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Roughly. total national wealth is $40 trillion. (0+ / 0-)

          so 1% of the country roughly holds $10 trillion of that.

          80% of the $40 trillion is held by the top 10%.

          Roughly $32 trillion held by the top 10%, and the remaining $8 trillion by 90%.

          tryin to make it real, compared to what

          by shpilk on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 11:13:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  How many speculators hold stocks long-term (0+ / 0-)
      to take advantage of LTCG rates?  Short-term CGs are taxed at OI rates.

      My Karma just ran over your Dogma

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:31:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Jim Webb's also pisisng in the punch bowl (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kovie, Betty Pinson
    Mr. "Scotch-Iriosh Middle Class" thinks we should extend the Bush Billioanire Bailout. http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/09/10/another-dem-questions-wisdom-extending-only-part-bush-t ax-cuts
    •  great .. (0+ / 0-)

      tryin to make it real, compared to what

      by shpilk on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:24:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Army of Northern Virginia strikes again! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, PsychoSavannah

      Webb can be so good on some issues, such a douchebag on others. I honestly don't get these centrist faux populist Dems, except to realize that their base is, well, centrist faux populist Dems (i.e. rich suburban centrist Dems who lean left on social issues).

      "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

      by kovie on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:27:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Webb is going to be a bastard to deal with (0+ / 0-)

      over the next two years given he's up for re-election in 2012 and Virginia went McConnell, Cooch last year and looking to turn House seats red in November.  

      Hell given Nelson, Lieberscum, McCaskill, Webb, Conrad are all up in 2012, it's going to be a long two years.  

  •  A strategic mistake they keep repeating (7+ / 0-)

    is refusing to send popular bills to the floor because they don't have the votes to pass. Let it fail, and give your party something to run on.

    I'm not worried about your state of mind, 'cause, you're not the revolutionary kind - Gomez

    by jhecht on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:21:49 AM PDT

    •  We have a winner! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LordMike, Betty Pinson

      But the beltway Democratic crowd knows better.

      "I've never believed that government's role is to create jobs . . . So this week, I've proposed a six year infrastructure plan."

      by Paleo on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:24:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, there's also the fear that by doing so (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      clouz22

      it will create enough political will to eventually pass such bills, which wouldn't please their power and money elite backers. This is what happens when you cut deals with the devil to get and stay in power--you are unable to do much good with it.

      In fact, you forget what "good" even means.

      "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

      by kovie on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:25:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  very true... (0+ / 0-)

      but you're presuming the leadership actually wants these bills to pass.  There's a lot of evidence they don't.

  •  Unlike religion & speech, obscene wealth is not.. (0+ / 0-)

    ...protected by that pesky Bill of Rights.

    "So, am I right or what?"

    by itzik shpitzik on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:27:25 AM PDT

  •  What's wrong with "soaking the rich"? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Paleo, wsexson, Trial Lawyer Richard

    Seeing as they've been soaking the rest of us for decades?

    "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything...Mankind are forever destined to be the dupes of bold & cunning imposture" --Alexander Hamilton

    by kovie on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:30:13 AM PDT

  •  Let the tax cuts expire, all of them, and repeal (0+ / 0-)

    the proposed 2011 increase in the capital gains tax.  That would create more tax revenue this year and incentivize businesses to build infrastructure, instead of selling it this year.    

    Strength of character does not consist solely in having powerful feelings, but in maintaining one's balance in spite of them. - Clausewitz

    by SpamNunn on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:31:53 AM PDT

    •  no no no... (0+ / 0-)

      "infrastructure" is not the problem.  There is no demand for their products.  Getting the demand side up is the ONLY WAY to incentivize infrastructure building.

      More and more money going for "infrastructure" for businesses that have no customers is a braindead GOP proposition. (although Obama seems to have adopted it lately)

  •  Network owners, MSM talking heads, (0+ / 0-)

    lobbyists and most members of congress make over $250,ooo a year so we're not going to see any honest reporting on this matter.  

  •  The rich will never pay an additional penny if... (0+ / 0-)

    ...this happens:

    Who Runs Congress if GOP Takes Over

    To the contrary, the rich, the insurers, the polluters, and the Teabaggers will be dancing in the streets.

  •  HUH? Was this a Poll of Congress? (0+ / 0-)

    everyone in Congress?

    apparently the diarist is asleep at the wheel.

    "the people" also want to end the two wars of choice, wanted health care with a public option, don't believe in torture, etc., but you see where that got us.

    secondly, did the Poll inquire as to whether people would be willing to give up their tax break if this was a requirement to drop the tax break for those earning above $250K per year?

    the answer would be NO.

    "The U.S. isn't withdrawing from Iraq at all, it's rebranding the occupation". Seumus Milne

    by Superpole on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:39:40 AM PDT

  •  Repubs want to spend money on a tax give away for (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bleedingheartliberal218

    millionaires, but they don't want to spend money on unemployment benefits for the middle class, or benefits for veterans

    "Speak out, judge fairly, and defend the rights of oppressed and needy people." Proverbs 31:9

    by zdefender on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:56:53 AM PDT

    •  Put this up for a vote over and over (0+ / 0-)

      again and ram it down the Repub throats in November.

      Vitter -- gone
      Rand Paul -- gone
      Fiorina -- gone
      Rubio -- gone

      make them pay for coddling the rich, and voting to protect rapists (against the Franken amendment)

      "Speak out, judge fairly, and defend the rights of oppressed and needy people." Proverbs 31:9

      by zdefender on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:58:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Today Show didn't cover this big story (0+ / 0-)
    After the president made his announcement, they didn't cover this news.  Instead, they spent 10 minutes talking about the wacko paster in Florida.

    They don't hesitate to trash Obama and his policies, and frequently have Newt pushing his right wing crap to the country.  

    Who controls their news agenda?  

    Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann (and btw, the bike in kayakbiker is a bicycle)

    by Kayakbiker on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 11:04:25 AM PDT

  •  Umm, my Rep, Steve Israel(D), NY-2 (0+ / 0-)

    is on record supporting extending tax cuts for gazillionaires. And this a week after I donated to him.

    The only newscaster on Fox that you can trust is Kent Brockman.

    by Van Buren on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 11:13:15 AM PDT

  •  Somebody Give the Dems a Clue (0+ / 0-)

    that an overwhelming majority of Americans supporting allowing the Bush tax cuts for the richest 2% of Americans to expire because it is FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE!

    Fuck the Rich!  They can easily afford to pay their fair share but simply won't as long as they can pay the bribes for influence peddled by Congresswhores.

    Democrats wanting to extend tax cuts for the rich need to be booted out of government for being irresponsible and morally-bankrupt as well as criminal and stupid.

  •  How many pages? (0+ / 0-)

    Do the Democrats have the sense and the will to write a one page bill dealing with the Bush tax cut rate expirations, or will it be 1500 pages long with $100B in pork stuffed into the fine print?

  •  It's not just "rich" (0+ / 0-)

    A combined income for two people with, say, several kids and college expenses, living in a major metro area, of $250k/yr is "comfortable" or "upper middle class," but not by any reasonable definition "rich."

    That said, my wife and I are fortunate enough to be just a bit over that threshold, and yet even I support letting the tax cuts expire.

  •  This debate has always been about (0+ / 0-)

    putting on an election year show to shame the Republicans.  The Speaker could have passed a budget with reconciliation instructions to do what is necessary and the fillibuster would have been impossible - but what's the fun in that?

    I am tired of Nancy Pelosi paying chicken with my paycheck.  I'm voting Green this time.

  •  Income Qunitiles: Rachel, Keith? (0+ / 0-)

    Can someone on TV or in print please put up a graph with the income quintiles for American families?

    Republicans seem to think the middle class starts at $125K and ends at, oh, infinite.

    A reality check would be nice.

  •  The Dems have the public holding the nail for (0+ / 0-)

    them.  They need to wrap both hands around the hammer and pound away until election day.

    "If I owned hell and Texas, I'd live in hell and rent out Texas" - Union General Phillip Sheridan

    by ZedMont on Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 01:47:19 PM PDT

  •  Bush cut (0+ / 0-)

    We're talking about, what, 3% of income to go back to the Clinton rates? Everyone knows it's reasonable.
    This also sets people's sights back on Bush and how we got into this mess.
    It's a good idea on several levels,if the Dems will discipline their message and use it to remind everyone making less than $250k that they're getting a TAX BREAK.
    Also, they're taking care of small business with their other proposals, so the GOP whining about hurting small bus. ain't gonna fly.
    Stay away from mosques, korans, terror babies and every other distraction the GOP throws out.
    Just talk about the economy.

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