Skip to main content

The Oregon governor's race will be decided in the Portland metropolitan area. If John Kitzhaber receives anything close to the level of support Democrats usually enjoy from Oregon's largest population center, he will win easily. The problem, for now, is that former NBA backup center and "wealth manager" (whatever that means) Chris Dudley is polling better in the Portland area than do most Republicans.

Oregon's unemployment rate is higher than the national average. People are restless and looking for change, and Democrats have held the Oregon statehouse for a long time. And a lot of people don't seem to remember how much they enjoyed Kitzhaber's previous tenure as governor, when he was the most popular politician in the state, despite having to fight a hard right Republican legislature. They don't seem to remember the employment boom when he was governor. They don't seem to remember that even before he was governor, the emergency-room-doctor-turned-state-senator created the Oregon Health Plan, without which many Oregonians would not have been able to get insured.

If the Kitzhaber campaign is looking for a knockout blow in this deadlocked race, they need to find something that will appeal to people in Portland and its suburbs and exurbs, something that isn't abstract and wonky. When Dudley finally showed up to debate Kitzhaber last week, he proved once again that he has but the most superficial understanding of policy. Kitzhaber once again proved that he can discuss the most intricate details of policy. But political knockout blows don't usually come from detailed policy analysis. Kitzhaber needs something that touches people emotionally, viscerally. Something about which liberal Portlanders are passionate and even many moderate and conservative Portlanders care deeply. Something like the environment.

Many Portlanders love the outdoors. Many escape west to the coast, east to the Gorge or the Cascades, or south to the Willamette Valley whenever they can. And it is almost impossible to drive in any of those directions without encountering the visual blight of clear-cutting. Along backroads, it's even worse. Even from some of Oregon's most popular beaches, the view has been sullied by deforestation. There are even proposals to deforest right up to the edge of Oregon's only national park. Portlanders care a lot about deforestation.

Chris Dudley has no roots in Oregon, although he did apparently live in Portland for much of the time he listed his official residence as across the river in Washington, where he could avoid paying income taxes. It's no surprise that he has no passion for protecting Oregon. He recently received yet another $50,000 from just one lumber company, raising that single company's total contribution to his campaign to nearly a quarter million dollars. Dudley apparently cares more about managing the wealth of the timber industry than about protecting what's left of Oregon's forests:

Among many political activists, the environment remains a hot political issue. Dudley has successfully tapped the timber and agricultural industries for support as he sympathizes with their plight.

Paulette Pyle, a natural resource and pesticide lobbyist who works closely with Dudley's campaign, said that became clear the first time she met Dudley and asked him what he knew about the state's farms and forests.

"He said, 'What I do know is that they have been underutilized over the years and that I believe that is why Oregon has had economic difficulties,'" Pyle related.

To Dudley, "utilizing" forests apparently means cutting them down. As he told The Oregonian's Jeff Mapes:

Oregon’s six large state forests are an underutilized state asset that should be a greater source of jobs and revenue for the state.

According to the state Department of Forestry, improving the management of the 93,000 acre Eliot State Forest, alone, could create at least 150 new jobs and more revenue for the Common School Fund.

A total of 150 jobs for 93,000 acres? To Dudley, "improving the management" apparently means allowing timber firms to manage their wealth by destroying state-owned wilderness. Dudley blathers about the need for using sound science, but given that only some 3 percent of the Pacific Northwest's Old Growth forests remain, the science has been pretty clear for some time. And if Dudley really cares about school funding, perhaps he shouldn't be proposing to manage the wealth of wealthy people like himself by cutting their taxes.

If the Kitzhaber campaign wants a short, simple ad that will fire up the key constituency that will decide his race, here it is: aerial shots of clear cut devastation, with a voice-over soundtrack recounting Dudley's comments about deforestation. If people in and around Portland understood that Dudley thinks of forests as but an underutilized asset, it could effectively end the race.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 06:46 AM PDT.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  deforestation creates jobs! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BachFan, HylasBrook

    Always speak your mind. If you are wrong, someone will correct you and then you will be wiser.

    by Krush on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 06:50:59 AM PDT

    •  Net job loss when Salmon runs are fouled by (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Krush, squarewheel, HylasBrook, CarolinNJ

      runoff, pulp waste, etc.

      Dudley, who was one of the worst free throw shooters in the history of the NBA, tosses another brick here. He's saying Kitzhaber isn't creating jobs, that the economy is in the shitter, and he is willing to sell out the Salmon industry just to add 150 jobs.

      I should add that the rape of our old growth forests, AKA clearcutting, is turning much of the Western U.S. into a third world country. By that I mean, the US is turning into a net exporter of raw materials. We don't manufacture anything in this country anymore. Those trees in those US Forest Service and National Parks belong to all of us — not just Brick Dudley. I for one am sick of our old growth trees getting cut down, shipped to Japan or Korea, and sold back to us as plywood.

      •  False (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        exlrrp

        We don't manufacture anything in this country anymore.

        Said about the world's largest manufacturing economy. The U.S. may be overtaken by China at some point in the next few years, but yours is a statement that would be equally false about the world's second largest manufacturing economy. Think about it - even if the U.S. drops to the second largest manufacturer, who in their right mind would claim today that China, the current No. 2 manufacturing economy "don't manufacture anything in this country anymore?"

        The west has long been at its root an extractive economy. Much of it was classified as the "Empty Quarter" in Garreau's seminal The Nine Nations of North America, with the west -- the empty quarter -- symbolized by extraction: a mining drag line.

        •  I'd recommend this but the first paragaph doesn't (0+ / 0-)

          seem to go with the second.  I read them as contradictory.  Explication?

          •  You need to read the comment to which I responded (0+ / 0-)

            The commentator made two statements:

            1.  The "We" (which I interpret to mean the United States of America as a whole) "don't manufacture anything in this country" (again, the USA) "anymore."

            That's a false statement.

            1.  The commentator then bemoans that recent developments are turning "much of the Western U.S. into a third world country. By that I mean, the US is turning into a net exporter of raw materials."

            I was simply pointing out that the west has long been a net exporter of natural resources.  That's not a new development.

        •  I would also point out that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          James Allen

          Oregon's has one of the highest percentages of it's economy based manufacturing/export sector than other states as well (we rank 5th in the nation in manufacturing as percentage of state economy). Which is one reason why we have been hit particularly hard by the global recession.

          Combine that with a near full collapse in housing construction, which is a massive hit on timber and construction jobs,all while still having a faster population growth than the most of the rest of the country, and it is no secret why unemployment is what it is currently.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Who is a Tea Partier? Someone who listens to Glenn Beck. Who's an anti-Tea Partier? Someone who understands Glenn Beck

          by Lestatdelc on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:18:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  much of our manufacturing is in high tech. (0+ / 0-)

            Solar panels, computer chips, etc.

            "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau

            by James Allen on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:38:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yep (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Laurence Lewis

              And why in the early 00's the first of Bush's recessions hit our state harder than the rest of the country. Because the dot.com bust waylaid the Portland metro area, which until then had the highest economic growth and boom rate in the nation.

              Unfortunately the state legislature was controlled by the GOP during those boom years and we were not able to build a rainy day fund to act as a counter-cyclical safety net when the economy hits the skids.

              Which is one of the reasons I fully support Kitzhaber's plan to modify the kicker (one of the dumbest "conservative" numbskull ideas ever made into public policy) so that we can build up reserves when the economy is good, so we don't have to cut vital services and mortgage our future when the economy hits a rough patch.

              cheers,

              Mitch Gore

              Who is a Tea Partier? Someone who listens to Glenn Beck. Who's an anti-Tea Partier? Someone who understands Glenn Beck

              by Lestatdelc on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:45:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  City-dwellers hate deforestation! (0+ / 0-)

    It's the sprawl of development that scares me most on the NY Thruway upstate. I don't feel safe in the city when there's no countryside to escape to. There's less and less here, too! I blame it on Pataki.

  •  Sigh. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, JClarkPDX

    russia ablaze. pakistan afloat.greenland aslush. gibbs doesn't matter.

    by terrypinder on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 06:53:35 AM PDT

  •  They do have a way with language (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Krush, FishOutofWater, CarolinNJ

    "improving the management" apparently means allowing timber firms to manage their wealth by destroying state-owned wilderness.

    Look what they have already done to "freedom".

    Conservatives are  masters of 1984's doublethink.

    The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 06:56:33 AM PDT

    •  Unfortunately, environmentalists also (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      badger, BachFan

      use doublespeak.  One rallying cry of the 2008 campaign was "The Bush administration cuts trees and calls it Healthy Forests."

      In fact, the Healthy Forests Initiative was one of the few things that Bush got at least partially right in his entire 8 years.

      A newly burned or clearcut piece of land can easily hold 10,000 healthy trees per acre.  By the time those trees are 100 years old, only a few hundred can occupy that space.  Something has to give.  We can thin the forest and use the wood.  Or we can leave it alone and let Mother Nature do her thing.  Sometimes the genetically superior trees will dominate, given enough time.  Other times the entire forest will be wiped out by fire, insects, or disease.

      Like it or not, cutting trees can indeed make a healthy forest.

  •  when I went to college there (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CarolinNJ
    the joke was that the little air freshener tree on the license plates should be a stump...
  •  Nature has a way of compensating for (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirk McQuigley, Krush

    indigities done to her. In the case of deforestation, the compensation is all that soil that the vegetation held in place now flows out to sea, incidentally taking homes and homeowners along in landslides and mudslides in the course of the migration  

    •  not a lot of people in many of (4+ / 0-)

      these areas...which is of course the big secret - the number of jobs saved by allowing this type of slash and burn is actually quite small, buy-out-level-small in some large regions. Smaller, even, if you consider what across the board higher standards for timber harvesting all over the US and Canada could do - keep many jobs in place without destroying everything.

      In Northern California the new company that bought Pacific Lumber is using methods that are based on recent science showing that trees create more wood the older they are, at an increasing rate over time. So if you have older forests, more selectively managed, guess what, you get more wood, higher quality wood, faster. What is going on in Oregon is wasteful and stupid.

      •  Its somewhat of a moot point anyway (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CarolinNJ

        There's no sense in cutting ANY trees right now with the lumber industry in recession. Whats cut forest jobs is the economy---with new housing starts extremely low, there's just very little market for lumber right now.

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 07:48:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  A few years ago we harvested a tract of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        badger, foresterbob

        timber. The average age of the trees was something over 100 years and the tract had entered senescence where the mature timber was slowly dying off, leaving patches of sunlight so oak could grow and replace them.
        At this point it is harvest or lose the timber, given the frequency of hurricanes, ice storms, pine beetles and whatnot, so we harvested the timber and immediately replanted so that in another 100 years we will be able to do it all over again

  •  Value of the forest is much higher than cut trees (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    Dudley is another moron who calls himself a conservative. The potential economic value of the biodiversity of intact old growth forests for medicinal products alone dwarfs the potential value of cutting the trees.

    Then there's the value of water supplies.

    Then recreation.

    Then oxygen.

    Where do they find these idiots? Under rotting logs?

    look for my DK Greenroots diary series Thursday evening. "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 07:03:32 AM PDT

    •  Partially agree (0+ / 0-)

      The thing that needs addressing though is creating enough living wage jobs to supplant the lost timber jobs. Since 1996 there has been little movement in replacing those lost living wage jobs in rural timber counties in the state. This, combined with record setting growth of the state (higher than the national average) are what has caused Oregon to have a higher unemployment rate for well over a decade. The Portland metro- area has had constantly lower unemployment than the national average (something the Dudley campaign ignores of course).

      It is the rural counties and the population growth that have been throwing Oregon's unemployment data off.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Who is a Tea Partier? Someone who listens to Glenn Beck. Who's an anti-Tea Partier? Someone who understands Glenn Beck

      by Lestatdelc on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:32:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oddly enough I was just (5+ / 0-)

    going through Dudley's financial disclosures at ORESTAR. Fascinatin' stuff.  Stimson obviously has the Dud in their back pocket.  I just wonder what that self employed New York used car salesman Jeff Loria thinks he'll get in return for the $100,000 he's donated.

    -6.25 -5.3 If I ever leave this world alive The madness that you feel will soon subside...

    by dansk47 on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 07:07:51 AM PDT

    •  and don't forget... (0+ / 0-)

      Stimson was recently hit with over $14,000 in penalties by Oregon's DEQ (Department of Environmental Quality):

      Officials with the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality said the timber company failed to demonstrate compliance with national emissions standards for hazardous air pollutants and operated a scrubber improperly in 2009, resulting in $10,400 in penalties. The agency also said the company discharged wastewater from an unauthorized outlet pipe into Scoggins Creek in 2010, and fined the company $4,200 for that infraction.

      I'm sure they see their investment in Dudley as one that will pay off in the long run ("We would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those pesky, meddling kids regulators!")

      There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. --Benjamin Disraeli, cited by Mark Twain

      by sheba on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 08:25:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I worked on the Stimson forest inventory (0+ / 0-)

        in the 1990s.  I had access to all of their land, and to aerial photos of their land.  At that time, they were very good stewards of the property that they owned.

        The violations that you cite are associated with one of their mills.  Typically in the forest industry, one group of people manages the land, and another manages the mills.

        I'm not defending the violations.  I'm saying that we should not tar and feather the forestry arm of the company for what happend in the mills.

        •  fair enough... (0+ / 0-)

          ...but it's awfully hard to separate the two when, if I understand correctly, they are two arms of the same company, and that company is sending shovelfuls of money to one of our gubernatorial candidates.

          FWIW.

          There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. --Benjamin Disraeli, cited by Mark Twain

          by sheba on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:11:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'm actually worried, because a ton of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis, Jeff Y

    small business has Dudley signs up.

    I'm seeing way more of those than usual.  In my experience with small business, the GOP carpet bombs those people.

    The Dudley ads I've seen a pretty good ones, but not compelling yet.

    Maybe this can help some.

    If you have a chance to GOTV in Oregon, do it!

    This race would be a shame to lose, and would give the GOP a ton of momentum.  

    IF THEY ARE GOING TO SCREW THE PEOPLE, MAKE THEM OWN IT.

    by potatohead on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 07:09:23 AM PDT

  •  Wealth manager (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    Doesn't that mean Dudley sits around counting the cash he made in the NBA?

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 07:11:02 AM PDT

  •  Lawrence - you're misusing the term deforestation (6+ / 0-)

    Clear cutting does not equal deforestation.  My understanding is that deforestation is used when trees are removed and not replaced - because of converting the land to pasture, cultivation, or urban/suburban sprawl.

    That's not happening to a large degree in Oregon.  These areas are allowed to return to a forest habitat over time.  A lot are actively replanted with trees.  This isn't "deforestation" in the sense that I believe most people understand the word.  This is clear cutting.

    •  Clear cutting's the way they do it (4+ / 0-)

      When I moved to OR 6 years ago, I was the quintessential tree hugger---NO TREE MUST DIE! But i Live on 10 acres of mostly forest land, which I own and now have become a "woodlot forester." You have to cut down the old ones so the new ones can grow---its just basic farming. I live in the middle of what could be considered a huge tree farm---land all around me is run by Cascade Lumber. And they treat the land really well---take care of it and replant when theyve cut, maintain the roads in it for usage and possible fire. There's a biout a 30 year cycle for timber trees
      You can learn a lot by watching and so I have. I watch them log around here all the time and I've learned a lot.
      Clear cutting is the only practical way to get the lumber out. They take out 10 or so acres at a time, then replant. They leave the slash there for the nutrients and to stop erosion. there is no erosion that you  can see, more than usual, anyway.
      Now I'm NOT referring to old growth forest, which is a very small percentage of lumber here in OR, I think about 3%. Old growth forests should remain untouched. But that other 97% can be farmed, cut and replanted, just like they cut and replant other crops.
      Liberals/Progressives need to understand that logging/ lumber can be a very well run business that can serve us all, with proper regulation and saving old growth forests

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 08:02:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think that's the basic problem (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        badger, foresterbob, Jojos Mojo

        People see clear cuts -- which I don't like but I understand they're necessary in some locations -- and assume the area is permanently gone as tree habitat.

        Instead, it's more or less a slow-motion farming operation.  Imagine planting corn that takes 30 to 50 years to grow mature. If you see the field soon after harvesting and before new growth is very visible, it looks terrible.

        Except in the case of clear cuts that are re-growing trees, there is a more diverse habitat of grasses, shrubs, understory, and trees, than would be allowed in a typical farm field monoculture.  

        •  You'll also find more wildlife (0+ / 0-)

          in and around a clearcut than in a dense forest due to things like "edge effect" and the fact that trees, or even woody shrubs, are not food for most animals or insects.

          Which is not to say that the extremes of clearcut and dense forest are the only options.

          If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the administration.

          by badger on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 10:25:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis

        The problem is the number of jobs that have been lost because of implementation of good forest management policies. It is the rural counties which have been "clear-cut" of jobs and throw the rest of the state's employment into a tail-spin.

        Kitzhaber has realistic goals and plans to address this. Dudley's is to simply be an empty suit and return to mismanaged forest "policies" (non-policies) which are not good stewardship of Oregon forests. Which is one reason why Stinson is throwing the most money of any single donner in this election at Dudley, who is simply an empty suit for his benefactors.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Who is a Tea Partier? Someone who listens to Glenn Beck. Who's an anti-Tea Partier? Someone who understands Glenn Beck

        by Lestatdelc on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:38:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Correct (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      badger, marina, CarolinNJ, foresterbob

      These areas are allowed to return to a forest habitat over time.  A lot are actively replanted with trees.  This isn't "deforestation" in the sense that I believe most people understand the word.  This is clear cutting.

      This is 100% correct.

      I grew up a stone's throw away from Portland and my grandfather was a logger most of his life.  The Old Guy was even a timber buyer for Columbia Vista and Weyerhaeuser at various points in his career.

      IIRC, replanting after clear cutting is required by law on any public land.  As a kid, I remember him coming home in the summertime exhausted from hauling seedlings up hillsides to replant previously cleared land.  Logging is tough, but that replanting work was exhausting.  

      Honestly, I'm not sure how this messaging will play in the Portland Metro area.  Yeah, it's a progressive area, but with the Oregon economy what it is I think there are better hammers with which to nail Dudley. His 3-card Monty "find where I'm REALLY living" game, for starters.  Tax dodgers are WAY more reviled in the area than the logging industry.

      I'm not even sure where Dudley is getting his jobs figures from. Logging has become a heavily mechanized industry.  Where it used to take 20 men to work an area, it can now be done with maybe a 5-7 person crew.  It's a waning employer in the area because of the uptick in technology.  The workforce that had expertise in the old technology hasn't kept up with the changes. Pulp and paper producers are cutting back or shutting down mills in the NW because it's not profitable to keep working on old machinery and is FAR too cost prohibitive to upgrade.  They instead invest in overseas processors who have ready-trained personnel in the latest technologies.

      "Reality divorced the wingnuts after the wingnuts were discovered to be fucking goofy." - DWG

      by Jojos Mojo on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 08:25:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As a professional forester (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      badger, CarolinNJ

      And former Oregon resident, I second what Ernest says.  Forest Practices Laws have been in place in most western states since the 1970s.  A property owner cannot legally clearcut without regenerating the land.  Native tree species have to be established in sufficient numbers to create a viable new forest.

      It always amazes me that my progressive friends get into such a tizzy about clearcuts, and will even recommend using "alternative building materials" which come from strip mines.

      And people tend to think that farms are beautiful, even though cropland soils are abused far more than timberland soils.

      I can grow more trees for you.  Nobody can grow you any more oil, aluminum, cement, or copper.

      •  I was just about to ask what kinds of replantings (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        badger, foresterbob

        are done.  Not, I hope, the infamous mono cultures.  But you pretty much answered that.  Farming is picturesque but not clean.  Anyone who lives along waterways should know that.  The runoff is deadly.

        •  Frequently, only one species is planted. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          badger, CarolinNJ

          However, given the regenerative power of nature, a former clearcut is quickly occupied by numerous species of grasses, herbs, and shrubs.  Seeds from other tree species will sprout.  And the stream buffers (also required by law) usually contain a mix of tree species.

          Try walking through a piece of land that was clearcut 20 or 20 years ago.  One tree species might dominate, but rarely do you find a monoculture.

          •  To circle back for a moment to farming hazards, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            badger

            the chemical stews of farming are also dangerous, debilitating, and sometimes deadly to farmers.  There's no free lunch and you can't work amidst those kinds of chemicals without serious and often life long consequences.  Read an article about just that problem years ago and I was appalled at the human costs.  Attempts have been made to lessen and mitigate and I guess the hazards have been reduced, but it's still not clean work.  I know that in NJ, farmers hire their chemical work done because regs have pretty much put an end to home brew storing and using.  Something is better than nothing, however, the rivers and bays in this region are still under siege and large parts of the waterways here are heart breakingly damaged.  Excess runoff, from suburban lawns, too.

      •  I can show you clearcuts (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Laurence Lewis

        conveniently just out of public view in national forests. I can show you places that have been replanted with trees three, maybe four times because they never should have been clearcut in the first place due to arid and poor soil. I can show you blowdown that would probably never have occurred if the neighboring plot hadn't been clearcut. There are clearcuts on private timber company land that were to be sold for development of homes rather than being replanted. I can show you clearcuts right down to streams that should have had buffer areas to protect them.

        All of which have occurred after 1970. If best practices were always followed, it would be one thing. What really happens is often another.

    •  nope (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pdxcutter, marina, Magnifico, James Allen

      this is one of the great fallacies- you cannot replace old growth with tree farms. it's about biodiversity.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 09:40:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The fallacy is when you suggest (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen

        That old growth logging is widespread.  It's not.  I wasn't talking about logging old growth, because it's a small fraction of logging.  I was talking about 2nd and 3rd growth timber stands that are managed essentially as a slow-growing crop, but without all the monoculture that accompanies modern industrialized farming.

  •  Ain't it the truth: you often don't appreciate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis, Churchill

    what you have until you don't have it anymore.  I hope not, but that may be a tragic lesson  awaiting Oregon.  And you can be sure that the handful of people who profit will see it as all to the good.  Everyone else can just shut up and admire the views of the estates from the bottom of the hill.

  •  or north to Vancouver to avoid taxes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pdxcutter, Laurence Lewis

    Many Portlanders love the outdoors. Many escape west to the coast, east to the Gorge or the Cascades, or south to the Willamette Valley whenever they can

    oh, sorry, that was Dudley...

  •  Utilize the forest as oxygen factories. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marina, Laurence Lewis

    someone has to flip the card on natural resources management, from timber to oxygen.  i think that the wet northwest and alaska could help the country and the world with better national forest management, and with private evergreen tree farms, selling not timber and wood products but supplying oxygen for the northern hemisphere's huge winter season...it just needs a business model to fly.
    speaking of flying:
    and as a flyfishergal, i want my fish protected!
    thing about oregon, red or blue, people fish and hike.  

    kitz needs to tap into the ol' time oregonian indie/conservatives who cared about conservation.

    Meg will run CA like a business. Which business? BP? Massey Coal? Tyco?

    by stagemom on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 08:40:24 AM PDT

  •  Correction (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis, supercereal

    The Dems have held the House and Senate in Oregon for only a couple of elections. Prior to that the Republicans dominated for about a decade.

    They have, however, had something like 14-16 years of solid Democratic control of the Governor's office.

  •  who is smarter on policy, Dudley vs Palin? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    I don't think either one of them knows anything about public policy

    80 % of success is just showing up! Why do billionaires want to be Gov of Kalifornia? Why does God need a starship?

    by Churchill on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 10:38:16 AM PDT

  •  Brick Dudley, king of the bad free throw shooters (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    80 % of success is just showing up! Why do billionaires want to be Gov of Kalifornia? Why does God need a starship?

    by Churchill on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 10:39:37 AM PDT

  •  Stumptown (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    Portland is known as Stumptown. Maybe Dud can make us Stumpstate?

    Do it because it'll make Rush Limbaugh explode like a bag full of meat dropped from a helicopter - Bill Maher

    by pdxcutter on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 10:46:24 AM PDT

  •  Kitzhaber is also calling for more use (0+ / 0-)

    of the forests.  Dudley will be much more extreme, but this is a soft spot he may not want to expose to the environmental community.

    Incidentally, this is one of the few areas Kitz and I see eye to eye on as far as jobs go.  Otherwise, the stuff I hear from him is pretty silly.  Like him saying we're too dependent on manufacturing, and we need to invest more in high tech development.  Well, most of our high tech jobs are manufacturing solar panels and computer chips and the like.

    "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau

    by James Allen on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:45:39 AM PDT

  •  I should also add that a lot of forestry jobs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Laurence Lewis

    have been lost to the same forces as manufacturing jobs-technology and trade.  New equipment made large workforces less necessary in clear cutting, and wood from other countries, or paper from other countries, has been really cutting into us.  

    But the Oregonian and conventional wisdom is that trade is pretty universally good for Oregon, and that those wicked Democrat enviros are the reason we don't log anymore.

    "Intolerance is something which belongs to the religions we have rejected." - J.J. Rousseau

    by James Allen on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:51:04 AM PDT

    •  additionally (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen

      when old growth stands are clear-cut, there is nothing to replace them, so the jobs dependent on cutting them are gone for good. it's not about jobs, it's about easy profits for the timber companies via the destruction of public lands.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:59:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Save the Tillamook (0+ / 0-)

    need some photos for this issue?  look no further: Save the Tillamook Cause group: http://www.causes.com/...

    a friend took photos of this forest.  very captivating!

    shall we really look at the cause of global warming? It's population growth: http://www.populationconnection.org for more

    by spicey on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 02:01:23 PM PDT

  •  Photos of Oregon Deforestation: The Tillamook (0+ / 0-)

    State Forest.  What a wreck.  Feel free to use these photos.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/...

    shall we really look at the cause of global warming? It's population growth: http://www.populationconnection.org for more

    by spicey on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 02:30:48 PM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site