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Crossposted from The People's View.

Amidst the plethora of right wing victory celebrations and left puritan whining, the economy continues to show signs of recovery.  The signs are quite significant given the time we have just come through.  Not only did October see a continuation of substantial private sector job creation (and the loss of government jobs, lead by the layoff of temporary census workers, slowed down), auto sales lead a rally on retail sales, raising it by the highest amount in seven months.  Retail sales are a key indicator of consumer spending, which accounts for more than two-thirds of the US economy.  Accelerating retail sales are indicative of a consumer market that is picking up.

Here's the down and dirty on those numbers for you:

Overall retail sales rose 1.2 percent in October, the Commerce Department said Monday. That was nearly double the gain that had been expected and the largest increase since March. But excluding autos, sales rose 0.4 percent.

In a second report, the government said inventories held by businesses grew 0.9 percent in September. It was the ninth straight monthly gain. And total business sales rose 0.5 percent, the best showing since July.

Notice that not only do we have better than expected retail sales growths, we also have rising inventory levels.  What does that mean?  In a word, jobs.

How so?  The reason jobs were being lost wasn't simply that consumers weren't spending in the midst of an economic crisis.  Part of the picture also is that when consumers weren't spending, business inventories kept growing, and they couldn't sell what was in their stock.  So, they didn't need more people to make more things, or stock more things, and the employees got pink slips.  Hiring again would not start until these inventories were substantially depleted.  Consumers would need to begin spending again for that to happen (ergo the vicious cycle, etc. etc.).  Inventory depletion would give manufacturers and retailers confidence to start increasing inventory again.

So that sounds pretty good on theory, right?  But do the numbers track?  Let's see.  I have gathered data from the US Census Bureau and the Bureau of Labor Statistics to compare how retail and inventories compare to employment growth in the United States - or at least how they have since 2007.  Pretty closely, as it turns out.  The first chart that follows tracks changes in retail sales with that in employment (i.e. jobs added or lost).  The red line represents retail sales growth, and the green employment growth.

retail sales and employment

What do you see if you look carefully?  Jobs growth almost always tracks with retail sales, with a time lag.  This is expected, since once retail sales falls off, the event that follows is layoffs, and once retail sales pick up, the event that follows is hiring.  The story is almost the same with inventories.  In the next chart, business inventory changes is represented with an orange line and the employment growth in green.

business inventory and employment

As you can see, job growth comes when businesses, after a period of depletion of their inventories, decide it's time to stock up again, since consumers are spending again, evidenced by the growth of retail sales.  So this is in fact the expected result.  You can see the bigger full page charts here, with one thrown in that compares inventory and retail sales growth rates.  As you would expect, they track inversely (i.e. when retail sales are up, inventory goes down and when retail sales fall, inventory increases).

What does all this boil down to?  Basically that when retail sales and business inventories show a sustained growth, jobs are likely to follow (this is why jobs are called a lagging indicator), and as a result, the economy is likely to look up.  In the past year (since October 2009), retail sales have grown every month except two, and business inventories have grown every month except one.  It's notable in my view that the retail sales growth was lead by a flood of new auto sales.  That's a big deal because a big ticket item is leading the increase in consumer spending.  People buy new cars when they are reasonably secure of their financial futures.  And whaddya know, consumer confidence is indeed inching up.

So, are the jobs coming?  It seems that way.  Not only did the private sector add 159,000 jobs in October, seeing the tenth straight month of private sector job growth, according to the Job Journal, online job postings are at a 26 month high, mass layoffs (layoffs of 50 or more workers) are down substantially from a year ago, and the average size of mass layoffs have dropped to their lowest levels since 1995.  Economic indicators are telling us that this economy is moving again, by objective measures, and the conditions needed for jobs to be added are ripe.

Let's also not forget the policies that are helping us get out of the economic disaster that the Republicans had put us in.  The largest economic recovery package in history (whether or not you believe it was large enough), the largest middle class tax breaks, a rescue of the American auto industry and a million jobs in it (and cash for clunkers), the emergency actions to stabilize the nation's financial system, credit card reform that is helping consumers manage their debt, and last but not least,  extension of unemployment benefits that enabled many who are out of work to sustain themselves and put money into the economy.  Each of those steps that Democrats and President Obama took came at a significant political price.  But they were the right things for our economy.  When the economy recovers, it will, without a doubt, have been the Obama Recovery.

Self-plug: You can read this and other thoughts of mine on my blog, The People's View.  You can also follow me on Twitter @thepeoplesview.

Originally posted to deaniac83 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:25 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Good news! (17+ / 0-)

    It may be that the Rethuglicans are too late...too late to prevent the economy from recovering!

    "Men argue, nature acts." Voltaire

    by hold tight on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:29:42 PM PST

  •  deniac, im worried about the new (7+ / 0-)

    fears on the european debt crisis.

    it seems as if everytime we're about to come back out of the hole, the EU countries stomp any spark we might have had. it happened this past april, and it's happening again now.

    what do you see with regards to that? are we on strong enough footing that we will be able to fight that off?

  •  I'm worried about the holiday sales (6+ / 0-)

    figures. I don't think they're going to ba as robust as they should be, and more importantly they will be trumpeted in the media. You know how they love to do that.

    It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. So I'm a bit worried about that.

  •  Only private sector job creation really counts. (8+ / 0-)

    Thanks, Joe!

    There are no "permanent tax cuts". 9th grade civics, people.

    by JesseCW on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:41:17 PM PST

  •  Well, it's not so rosy as some may paint it... (5+ / 0-)

    Though auto sales are included in the retail report, they are generally excluded from more specific consumer spending data as car sales tend to vary quite widely from month to month (driven by incentives). September and October are traditionally bigger sales months for cars as dealers clear inventory for the new model year.

    The 0.4% increase, while encouraging, is still quite a fragile number. More significant will be November sales -- will consumers loosen the purse strings this year as they did not last year?

    Also of note: Wal-Mart same store sales just declined for the sixth consecutive quarter. Say what you will about WM, they are a significant part of the retail engine, and sales declines from them are not a good sign.

    "We have so much time and so little to do. Strike that, reverse it." -- Willy Wonka

    by Huginn and Muninn on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:46:01 PM PST

  •  Gee, what happens in October? (11+ / 0-)

    New Car season.

    And this year, that means the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf and a bunch of other solid, non-gas guzzling vehicles.

    The auto industry is retooled and ready to rebound.

    Money is not speech. Corporations are not people.

    by Benintn on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 03:49:06 PM PST

  •  very informative diary (9+ / 0-)

    I wish Gibbs would start each daily press briefing with positive news about the recovery.

  •  Let's make a deal: you don't use perjoratives (22+ / 0-)

    such as "leftist puritan whining" and I will resist the urge to call you a shameless Obama pimp. Deal?

    The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

    by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:02:25 PM PST

    •  No deal (6+ / 0-)

      if you are not a left puritan (and you don't self identify as one), and you are not whining, then it's not directed at you.  Therefore, it is not personal.  In contrast, your inclination to call specifically me a name is personal, and directed at me and only me.

      •  It's all personal all the time with folks (15+ / 0-)

        like you. You make it that way.

        The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

        by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:10:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Folks like deaniac truly do hate the left... (13+ / 0-)

          far more than they hate the right. Once upon a time, he would have been a "Rockefeller Republican."

          When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

          by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:19:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Now THAT'S name-calling but I will (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ArthurPoet, PhilJD

            forgive you this once.

            The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

            by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:21:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  That is absolutely untrue & unfair to broad brush (4+ / 0-)

            deaniac like that. I don't expect that from you Phil. If you look at his diaries, he clearly put forth a very thoughtful diaries that are well researched not like that no self analysis, disjointed diary of bob whatever his name was, where some folks rec it to the top of the rec list for a cut and paste job. Folks just have to look at deaniac's excellent diaries in order to judge for themselves.

            Standing up to those who are always bulling and caricaturing this POTUS when they should be praising when they read progress such as this is a must needed element to electing more and better democrats and I am glad deaniac is pushing back against these so called purists.

            ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

            by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:32:15 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Deaniac started the name-calling and (5+ / 0-)

              I, who do not generally engage in it, have just had enough. D reaps what he as sown.

              The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

              by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:37:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I make no bones about the fact that he's not (15+ / 0-)

              my favorite Kossack. I really believe he sees the left as his true ideological enemy.

              This diary is a perfect example. I'd have no beef if he had simply offered his analysis of the economic data. "Left puritans," in the first damn sentence, was a nasty, gratuitous swipe at progressives, one which had nothing at all to do with the main thrust of the diary. It was red meat for the other left-bashers, a little signal to join the pile on.

              You would object, TiMT, if a diarist included a similar non sequitur jab at the President in an otherwise unrelated diary... and you would have every right to do so.

              The fact is, almost no one on DKos can be fairly described as a "left puritan." The left here has expressed our willingness to compromise, to accept much less than what we truly want, at every turn. Compromise isn't enough for deaniac though; he wants capitulation. That's a bridge too far for me; nor will I apologize for continuing to fight for what I believe in... and my core belief really is that "left" ideas offer the only hope for a better future, for Americans and all of humanity.

              When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

              by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:04:24 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Phil, that is fine you can have your not so (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                njdaly, Onomastic, PhilJD

                favorite Kossacks. But, why I am engaging you in this is because I respect you and had it not been you, I would most likely would not have taken a second look at that comment. Even if I disagree with you, I don't think I would cross you because I value your opinions regardless of the fact I agree or don't agree with them because you are a reasonable person. The reason I am defending deaniac is because he is a friend first and I believe you mis-understood his true intentions.

                If the "left puritan" made you uncomfortable, knowing your reasonableness in your thought process, I would not worry about it because it isn't addressing you at all. However, it does not take a minute to see that progress made by this Administration and that being any progress, to these "left puritans" is just bad news. They push a narrative that all hell is breaking lose or whatever it is, it is just not good enough. In one side we criticize the administration for lack of communicating its accomplishment and when you do, you are screamed at for the same thing they claim lacks. It is a no win situation and these folks are the ones with different agenda. Some have already made up their mind that they will undermine the POTUS regardless. Some want an unprecedented progress to be made in a snap because they have contributed, GOTV, et al and the POTUS owes them and there are some who are reasonable who are balanced, people like you. This POTUS has already an unprecedented legislation victories in the bag and we can't even mention them without being talked down.

                Clearly, we have problems in this community that has to be ironed out soon because the discourse is damning. There is a lot of self righteousness in this place. At times it is difficult not to be emotional and be in your face about things that just upsets us. I do it all often. I don't give these kinds of people a sanctuary as if they are at RedState.  Sometimes a push back is necessary if we are ever going to be greatful for the progresses we have made and take credit to shape the message that needs to be amplified.

                If I read deaniac, he is addressing those with no humility to acknowledge what we have done what so ever. I don't like naming names and I am certain you know who I am talking about since he have seen me battling them. I would hope you try to understand deaniac because just as we have common ground, I am certain you two can definitely find common grounds as well if you just try to understand where he is coming from. And, if I am correct, I don't think deaniac would see you in the same light as you see him today.

                ....and we all agree with your saying:

                "left" ideas offer the only hope for a better future, for Americans and all of humanity.

                The million dollar question is, how can we achieve these things with all the political mudslinging and limitations?

                ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

                by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 06:54:50 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  "Left puritan" doesn't make me uncomfortable... (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Uberbah, JesseCW, ratmach, Wolf10

                  It makes me angry, absolutely fucking furious. There are such people in the world; I've known my share. There's very little trace on DKos however of "purism," "correct line," any of that. We do get the occasional "ultra-left" ranting, but pretty much no one with even modest stature here can be aptly described that way. I question the true agenda of anyone who even tries.

                  I think you're letting your friendship with the diarist cloud your judgment a bit. If the point of this diary was to convey positive economic news, as deaniac of course contends, "left puritans" was a gratuitous and ultimately counter-productive distraction from his stated aim. It would be remarkably naive if he thought that would pass by unchallenged.

                  I certainly don't question his shrewdness though; I'm sure he knew precisely the effect that nasty little jab would generate. Deaniac picked this fight; he shouldn't feign surprise when he got what he wanted.

                  As for the way deaniac views me, in the comments to this diary alone, he's described me as hating the President and of chronically "pissing" on positive diaries. Hard to see where a meeting of the minds will come from after that.

                  When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                  by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 07:21:46 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I want to add, TiMT... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ThisIsMyTime, Onomastic

                  that you're absolutely on the side of the angels here. I doubt you'll change either of our minds, but thanks for trying.

                  When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                  by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:08:05 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Hahaha. (4+ / 1-)
            Recommended by:
            sviscusi, njdaly, Larsstephens, gobears2000
            Hidden by:
            joanneleon

            I hate the left more than the right?  Or you hate the President more than the right?  I think the latter.  I didn't even leave it at "the left".  I used a term "left puritan" to specifically indicate those who put purism over progress.

            •  Please point out a single comment I've made, (7+ / 0-)

              just one, ever, that can be construed as implying I "hate" the President. You'll find exactly none. My criticism is always, without exception, respectful and directed against his policies and tactics, never against his person.

              If you care to waste your time trying to prove me wrong, please have at it.

              When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

              by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:21:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The very idea (2+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                sviscusi, njdaly
                Hidden by:
                joanneleon

                that you find good news attributed to President's policies disturbing means you hate the President (since we are using that word, in this context, starting with you).  Not to mention you are whining about saying something about "the left" when I have never said anything about "the left."  I have distinguished what I believe to be a small and loud faction that cares more about ideology than about progress.  Now you want to claim I hate the left, because it's convenient for you to do so.  But it's you who feels the nagging need to come into every pro-Obama diary and piss on it.  It's not me who goes to every anti-Obama diary and screams in them.

                •  See, again you're just making shit up. (8+ / 0-)

                  I seldom come into "pro-Obama" diaries at all, let alone to "piss" on them... unless their pro-Administration slant is accompanied by left-bashing. That I will indeed push back against, every time it rears its vile little head.

                  Again, I challenge you to find a single example of my "pissing" on a positive diary, unless that diary is polluted by gratuitous swipes against progressives and the left.

                  When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                  by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:39:32 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Umm you are doing it here. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    njdaly
                    •  Are you unable to read? (6+ / 0-)

                      Again, I challenge you to find a single example of my "pissing" on a positive diary, unless that diary is polluted by gratuitous swipes against progressives and the left.

                      Note especially the clause in bold.

                      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                      by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:52:05 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Which this diary did not do (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        njdaly

                        "left puritans" is NOT the same as "progressives and the left."  Not by a long shot.  I explained it a gazillion times.  So it seems it is you who is unable to read (or at least, comprehend).

                        •   As one of the doom-and-gloomers... (8+ / 0-)

                          ... (another pejorative tossed by those who believed Joe Biden this spring when he said we'd soon have 500,000 new jobs being generated each month by now), I've been told I'm anti-Obama since February 2009, when I challenged (along with other leftist whiners) the inadequate-but-better-than-nothing stimulus package. The results have proved we were right. The economy's still in deep trouble, and the evidence that it's going to improve significantly before the next recession is weak indeed.

                          You challenge the left for essentially cherry-picking its economic statistics, but you cherry-pick in this diary, ignoring the caveats that are everywhere, including in other statistics released today.  

                          Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                          by Meteor Blades on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:15:30 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  That's where you are wrong (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            OLinda, njdaly

                            I don't "challenge the left."  I know it's convenient to claim yourself (or even yourselves on Daily Kos comment threads or the front page) "the left," but I am not letting you get away with it that easily.  No one gave you the mantle to represent the left.  When I challenge you and others who are on your side here, I am not challenging "the left."

                            I am not cherrypicking a thing.  I am talking about correlations between variables.  I presented my research, with data from the past three years.

                            And you haven't "proved right."  That the stimulus was inadequate may be true, but it is also true that states are sitting on stimulus money.  At least they were, on $100 billion of it, until August.  Just what have you, with your influence on the most popular blog, done to make sure that money gets spent?  The stimulus and other government action is majorly responsible for the fact that we are not in a depression.  That is not my opinion, that is what the economists say.  So was it adequate to stop a depression and stop the bleeding?  OH YES.  Was it adequate to completely erase the effects of the near-depression and return employment to pre-recession levels in 2 years?  Of course not.  But I'd like to hear your plan to pass a larger stimulus through the Senate of the time.  Go ahead.  And please don't give me "if only the President pushed."

                          •  Perhaps a larger stimulus could not have... (8+ / 0-)

                            ...passed. I've never denied that. But the point I and others have made is that no effort was made to pass a larger stimulus. We don't know what the response would have been in February 2009 if the administration had gone to Congress with a $1.5 trillion stimulus package. Perhaps it would have been shot down and we'd only have gotten the $814 billion finally approved. Or perhaps we would have gotten $1.1 trillion. While many say nothing bigger could have been obtained, and some say something bigger could have, nobody knows for sure. What we do know is that nobody tried.

                            Many of those arguing against a larger stimulus at the time said if more stimulus were later needed, the administration could always come back for another bite. I argued, as did others, that every President only has so much political capital to invest, that it starts dwindling within a few months of the Inaugural, and therefore there would be no opportunity for a second stimulus. And there has not been.

                            Despite what all economists - including Christina Romer - pointed out from the beginning, the major effect of the stimulus on economic growth was in the 2nd and 3rd quarters of 2009. After that, the effect began fading. I've never denied that the stimulus has had an significant impact, has, in fact, kept us from going over the cliff. I've repeatedly pointed out how much worse things would be without the stimulus.

                            I don't claim to represent the left. I only claim to be a part of it, left of left of center, the place I've been for a long time.

                            Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                            by Meteor Blades on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 09:43:56 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Or it could have been that (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            OLinda, njdaly

                            had they moved in with a gigantic package, it would be dead on arrival, Congress wouldn't take the President seriously (in their infinite lack of wisdom)) and left entirely up to Congress (specifically, the Senate) and its devices, they would write a MUCH smaller stimulus package than what was passed.  Maybe the White House made that calculation.  Ever think of that?  You want to claim that had the White House done something different, it was possible we'd get a larger package.  I say that's possible, and it's also possible that my scenario would come true and we would have a smaller stimulus.  You seem to think things could only be better, or possibly no worse if the WH did what you wanted it to.  It could be worse.

                            And stimulus WAS passed after the big Recovery Act.  Unemployment benefits extensions.  Many times.  Businesses started getting credits to keep people on health insurance plans (and hence to keep health spending going, since people shrink their health spending when they don't have insurance) almost as soon as health reform passed.  We had a small business jobs bill that the Republicans delayed forever, but ultimately passed.  Since the stimulus, two packages of state aid were passed as well.  So to say that no stimulus passed since the big Recovery Act bill is simply untrue.

                          •  good job (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            deaniac83, Onomastic

                            on the rebuttal deaniac. I'm more in the MB camp, but I appreciate your comments and your diary.

                            After reading most of the comments, I decided to go back up and tip.

                            The brilliant, liberal voice of Sam Seder is back! Free mp3 play, Free live stream, Free i-Tunes. M-F show. (Free for now.)

                            by OLinda on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 11:26:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Correction, Deaniac, you *are* challenging (5+ / 0-)

                            ... the left (in an insulting manner) when you begin your diary issuing (unnecessary) slights of categorizing and framing (ie, "promoting the MEME") that VALID CRITICISMS for failings or lackings is "whining."

                            So, stop with the bullshit:

                            I don't "challenge the left."  

                            You do. And you know you do.

                            And you do so, in a disrespectful dismissive insulting manner, and THAT's the problem with your propaganda. Or rather, that's what makes your diaries weak, and cause many people to view them as superficial propaganda. And, that negative perception is only gonna grow, the more use resort to underhanded insulting slights.

                            You see, if you were just "challenging the left" in a forthright respectful honest manner, then this would be a contribution to the dialectic, which fosters an awakened electorate, and this inspires enthusiasm, but superficial cheer-leading, which does less to inform, and more to white-wash with your own PRO-OBAMA "no matter what" a bol, is the very thing that is SAPPING ENTHUSIASM, which is causing the divisive attacks from the progressive liberal caucus, who feel betrayed.

                            Let me say this to you in the strongest of terms,

                            DO NOT FUCKING EVER CATEGORIZE VALID CRITICISMS as "WHINING."

                            DO NOT.

                            I repeat, DO NOT.

                            You become a part of the problem when you do so.

                            You become THE PROBLEM when you do so.

                            You insult my intelligence when you do so.

                            And, you become a voice whose words are empty and meaningless.

                            And, you WILL NEVER foster an "awakened electorate" with such bullshit.

                            And, in case you were ignorant of this, (which it sure does seem like you are,) but the "awakened electorate" is the core progressive liberal base that got Obama elected.

                            And, the members of this community can smell bullshit a mile away.

                            So just stop. Do yourself a favor. Do Obama a favor. I am totally fucking serious.

                            Cause, if you think you are helping Obama with these bullshit statements labeling valid criticisms as "whining" then you are fucking more wrong than you will ever know.

                            All that you are doing, is making enemies of the very informed populace that you want to, not only vote for Obama, but you want them to be enthusiastic activists for the Democratic Party.

                            You are proving yourself to be a fool, with such trite flippant deriding of those who know for a fact that their criticisms, in most (not all) instances, are irrefutable.

                            So ... JUST. FUCKING. STOP.

                            And, no, sorry, dude, but you are NOT a member of the Progressive Liberal Caucus (PLC), not as I define us, because, my definition is the following:

                            Anyone who supports CRITICAL THINKING
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                            (CRITICALY CHALLENING), is of the mindset of the Progressive Liberal Caucus (PLC).

                            Anyone who attempts to discourage or disparage, in any manner, such CRITICAL THINKING / CRITICALY CHALLENING, is NOT of the mindset of the Progressive Liberal Caucus (PLC), and given the fact that your insulting dismissive remark (categorizing VALID CRITICISMS as "whining"), sets the very core TONE of your diary, this proves that you had a very clear and unmistakeable agenda to dismiss such CRITICAL THINKING / CRITICALY CHALLENING.

                            And, yeah, I know that you want to think that you are a "Progressive Liberal", and I know that you want us all to perceive you as a "Progressive Liberal"

                            But, NEW FLASH: YOU FUCKIN' AINT!

                            Not by a fucking long shot.

                            Not when you post diaries like this insulting piece of crap whose sole purpose is to promote a CORPORATIST LIE:
                            How'd That Pissing on Obama Thing Work Out for You?

                            ... whose sole purpose is to PISS ON THE PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS,

                            ... whose sole purpose is to discourage critical thinking and informed dissent,

                            ... whose sole purpose is to promote the MEME that critical thinking and informed dissent were the cause of the mid-term losses,

                            ... and seeks to "frame the messaging" as if the cause of the mid-term losses was due to Progressive Liberals' mindset of CRITICAL THINKING / CRITICALY CHALLENING

                            Which I took patient time to dissect for the bullshit piece of shit propaganda CORPORATIST LIE crap that it was:

                            HERE: Interesting hypocrisy you've got there ...

                            Now, sorry, but you are clearly NOT of the mindset of the Progressive Liberal Caucus (PLC). In fact, what you fucking reek of, dude, is the Corporatist DLC mindset, whether you are a fucking paid operative for them or not, only you can say, and it matters not, because, as the saying goes:
                            "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck ...."

                            Now, this brings me to my own point, regarding this "half-flawed" argument of yours:

                            Or it could have been that (1+ / 0-)
                            had they moved in with a gigantic package, it would be  dead on arrival, Congress wouldn't take the President seriously (in their infinite lack of wisdom)) and left entirely up to Congress (specifically, the Senate) and its devices, they would write a MUCH smaller stimulus package than what was passed.  Maybe the White House made tha calculation.  Ever think of that?  You want to claim that had the White House done something different, it was possible we'd get a larger package.  

                            If you are attempting to CHALLENGE the progressives' criticism of Obama for not seeking a larger stimulus, then you would do well to take a more tempered posture, because, whilst what you are arguing here, might be right, but also, you might be entirely WRONG.

                            Now, did YOU ever think of that?

                            I guess, not.

                            You see, how do you know, (or how does even Obama know,) that if he had at least TRIED, maybe it would have worked, and the failure to try, is a valid criticism, one which you cannot simply dismiss as "whining" ... at the very least, one must respectfully acknowledge this, if you want to earn the respect of those who are not giving Obama the same blind faith that you seem hell-bent on doing.

                            Look, I am not attempting to say that we should not give Obama the benefit of the doubt, in certain instances, but also, "being loyal" does not mean that one is not critical. And, being critical does not mean that one is cynical.

                            Publishing diaries with insulting slights, condescending half-truths, wherein you do, (with all due respect,) cherry-pick the statistical determinants which you use to promote the probabilistic metrics to derive the resulting projections to support your cheer-leading.

                            I remember, many years ago, when I worked at McGraw-Hill/Business Week Magazine, we had an entire statistics department, whose sole purpose was to run statistic analysis after statistic analysis after statistic analysis , until they found the right "skew" that portrayed BW as better than the Economist, for a given segment.

                            Please. A well-trained statistician can make any thing look possible, with the right skew.

                            Yes, you DID cherry-pick, and you know it.

                            And any trained professional knows it.

                            So, just stop with the fucking bullshit.

                            Your lies are about as transparent as the fucking wind.

                            Yeah,, for the record, you are not speaking to a neophyte plebe here, I am a professional in the domain of which you are working, and no matter what people try to tell you, statistics is NOT a science, it is an art, and the basic flaw of such assumptions is rampant and glaring in your diary's analysis. Please do not insult me with such hyperbole again, not if you want the segment of Obama's constituency that I am representative of, to read your diaries with any degree of respect or credence, again. Much less, not if you want our support.

                            And, I assure you, you will need our support if you want to beat the Republicans.

                            So, you would do well to heed my warnings, of which I have posted several on this diary, and other previous ones, already.

                            In closing, I am in full support of Obama, and I applaud what he did do, but still, I am critical of what he did not, but I find such insulting diaries from people like you, and the other allies of the DLC, to be fucking insulting.

                            So. Stop.

                            And fucking can the fucking condescending bullshit too.

                            You are really beginning to piss me off.

                            Not Obama, not what he may or may not have done .... YOU are pissing me off.

                            GOT IT?

                            ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

                            by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                •  Serious charge (7+ / 0-)

                  claiming that someone is a hater of the President.  Your evidence doesn't even begin to support your accusation.  Prove it or retract it.  Provide some solid evidence of something this person said or did that would make him a hater of the President.

            •  Back that up (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              slinkerwink, Uberbah, priceman, Wolf10, PhilJD

              with some evidence, or retract it.  Calling someone a hater is really f'ing over the top.

              Or you hate the President more than the right?  I think the latter.

              Prove it or retract it.

              •  See the comment it was in response to. EOM. (0+ / 0-)
              •  There's a lot of name-calling going... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blueyedace2, Onomastic

                ...on here, and it started in the first paragraph of the diary. But deaniac83 didn't use "hate" first. Claims about hate ought to be challenged, whoever makes them. Your challenge is eminently reasonable, and your HR would be, too, if deaniac83 had made the first use of hate.

                Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                by Meteor Blades on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 07:22:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There is a huge difference (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Wolf10, PhilJD

                  between accusing someone of being a hater of the amorphous "left" and being a hater of the President.

                  IMHO, one deserves no support but doesn't rise to the level of HRing it, but the other does rise to the level of HR.

                  Deaniac could easily have defended the accusation without accusing someone of being a hater of the President, a serious charge for a number of different reasons.

                  •  I disagree about there being a huge difference... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    blueyedace2, Wolf10

                    ...between the two accusations. Again, if he had popped "hater" into the conversation out of the blue, I'd agree with you. And I completely agree that deaniac83 could have defended against the accusation.
                    While I've always said name-calling is HRable, I'd prefer to see a lot less of it, which could go part of the way toward improving discourse here.

                    Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                    by Meteor Blades on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:11:59 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Further (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Uberbah, Situational Lefty, Wolf10

                  With all due respect, some of your own comments seem to support my position:

                  "hater" when it's short for "Obama-hater" has...
                  ...been HRable as long as "Obamabot" has.
                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  For the 50th time, "Obamabot" is not... (4+ / 0-)

                  ...banned. Insults, including "purity troll" and "Obama hater" are HRable, and people who call people those names and get HRed for it shouldn't come whining to me. People who give 4s to such insults are warned.

                  Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 08:31:27 PM EST

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  FTR, let me repeat... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...that "Obamabot" and "Obama-hater" are nasty insults (to most people). Personal insults are HRable. And anybody who delivers personal insults and then comes bellyaching to me because they were HRed for offering a personal insult will get no sympathy. But I have NEVER said that such insults MUST be HRed. It's totally voluntary. The only time I'm likely to intervene is when somebody is HRing, say, "Obamabot" and giving a 4 to "Obama-hater," or vice versa.

                  Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do and I'll tell you what you believe.

                  by Meteor Blades on Fri May 28, 2010 at 01:46:40 AM EST
                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                •  1st sentence of the diary, actually... (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Uberbah, JesseCW, Wolf10

                  I won't use "hate" in a similar context again, since folks seem to find it egregiously inflammatory. Probably not a truly precise word choice anyway; something like "despise" might have been more apropos. I stand by the underlying thought though, that this diarist displays a striking and consistent pattern of distaste for progressives and the left, at least for those of us with the temerity to criticize the Administration. It makes no difference how calmly and respectfully the criticism is expressed.

                  The diarist's response to me though was quite simply wrong. As I challenged him, he'll find it impossible to find even a single comment I've made that "attacks" Pres. Obama personally, or that criticizes his policies or political tactics in a less than respectful way. No simple word substitution will salvage deaniac's point. As joanneleon notes downthread, there's a huge difference. I think the difference is qualitative; apples and oranges.

                  When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                  by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 08:17:19 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  That opening is the reason I'm not tipping (10+ / 0-)

        this diary. This bullshit has got to stop. I see it coming from both "sides" and it disposes people to become argumentative and the comment threads degenerate into name-calling pissing contests and it has got to stop.

        Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

        by NMDad on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:13:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  OK then... Please define "left puritan," (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        slinkerwink, badger, Uberbah, Wolf10

        so we'll know if the foo shits.

        When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

        by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:17:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I just did. (3+ / 0-)

          I will do it again: left puritans are those who put ideology over progress - i.e. they are unwilling to accept some progress because it is not ideologically enough progress, and they are willing to call those who support that progress things like "corporatists" and "sellouts."

          •  No doubt, you consider folks who held out (8+ / 0-)

            for a Public Option to be textbook examples of uncompromising "left puritans," completely ignoring the inconvenient truth that the PO already represented a drastic compromise from the "pure" position of single-payer, Medicare-for-all.

            You constantly exhibit nothing but contempt for anyone who holds principles over expediency. For you, there are no lines in the sand at all, no compromise too far. Sorry, that's not a world-view I can respect.

            When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

            by PhilJD on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:32:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  "no compromise too far". Hmmmm that (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Uberbah, PhilJD

              sounds familiar. Who can I be thinking of?

              The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

              by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:36:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  No I don't (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ThisIsMyTime, mallyroyal

              I do consider people who voted against the health care bill in Congress solely because of the absence of a public option left puritans, yes.  But I don't consider people puritans simply for holding out.  But the moment they started deriding those who wanted to pass a bill even without a public option (while preferring to have one) by calling them nasty names, accused us of being sellouts and paid hacks and corporatists, and once they started appearing on Fox News and blogs trying to kill the health care bill, those actions became left puritan actions.  Even Kucinich voted for the bill.

              This isn't about principles over expediency.  This is about purism over progress.  Our principles do not advance when we refuse partial progress because it's not pure enough - certainly not if we're progressives.

              No one asked you to respect my world view.  You are certainly wrong about it, but I am not interested in debating you about that.  You look at it through the prism of how much compromise is in a bill, I look at it through the prism of how much progress.

            •  Anyone who held back from voting for HCR knowing (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal, PhilJD

              the fact that there were no votes for PO are in fact puritans who have indirectly said: YES to allowing insurance companies deny children with pre-existing conditions, YES to not extending coverage for young adults up to age 26 to stay on parents' plan, YES to not allowing free preventive care, YES to allowing Insurance Companies to rescind for an error or technical mistake on customers’ applications, YES to not eliminating lifetime limits on insurance coverage, NO to the infusion $10 billion for community clinics around the country, NO to the $5billion infusion of monies to provide affordable coverage to uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions, NO to closing the Coverage Gap in the Medicare(Part D) Drug Benefit, NO to Patient Protections, et al, just to point what their vote symbolized.

              There is a time when you fight to push for a principled position and there is what is called living in the reality. I don't dess anyone who had a position initially to push for the PO as I was one of them but those who can never understand that the PO was just a part of the HCR bill and those who wanted to take the whole bill hostage for something we did not have votes for in the last days of the bill, calling to "KILL THE BILL" bullshit are indeed "Left Unprincipled Purists" who would still rather like to see 45,000 people a year die because of lack of health insurance, who would still rather had liked to see 30 million people not have access to Health insurance.

              Further, Phil, this diaryclearly demonstrates the conviction and loyalty deaniac has demonstrated in the early stage of the PO fight where he had stood for principle but when things became clearly not feasible to get the votes for the PO, we all have to adjust our efforts to ensure progress step by step. That makes deaniac a pragmatic progressive not someone who has contempt for "Leftist ideology".  The contempt for those who feel like they are the know it all crowd who non stop call on those who think pragmatically corporate shells, obamabots, et al, is justified.

              Again, I personally as I had said before would not put you with those "left puritans". I understand where you are coming from but you are defending some who are honestly caricatures with agenda beyond principle.  
                 

              ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

              by ThisIsMyTime on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 11:33:51 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  This diary is better, I'll go that far. I've no (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ThisIsMyTime

                real objection to it. I'm at work, and can only grab a few moments here and there. I'll try to read it more carefully this evening. Who knows, I might find something positive to say.

                When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

                by PhilJD on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 12:06:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  And how does one determine (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Uberbah

            how much progress is a sufficient amount of progress to put it over ideology?  "Some progress," to quote you, is a mighty vague term.

      •  You should have taken the deal. eom (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ArthurPoet, PhilJD

        The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

        by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:41:04 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed. He should have taken the deal, (0+ / 0-)

          ... and he is an idiot and a fool, for not.

          ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

          by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 11:11:02 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  that's crap (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        badger, ratmach, Wolf10, PhilJD

        if you are not a left puritan (and you don't self identify as one), and you are not whining, then it's not directed at you.

        That's like when Republican gasbags like Rush Limbaugh rail against lazy minorities, and then when called out for their demagoguery, respond with a snotty "well, I wasn't talking about yooooou but all those other lazy minorities.  Or are you saying that blacks and hispanics are never lazy?"

        ThAnswr "If the administration can't fight for it's friends, don't expect us to fight their enemies."

        by Uberbah on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:30:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Now you're being a pettifogging twit. eom (0+ / 0-)

        The frog jumped/ into the old pond/ plop! (Basho)

        by Wolf10 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:49:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Laebeling VALID criticisms as "whining" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nchristine

        is insulting in the extreme, and it is just plain wrong, and THAT is what makes you full of shit. You loose credibility and you loose people's respect.

        Now, if you are wanting to foster (and speak to) Obama's informed/"AWAKENED ELECTORATE", you had better damn well learn some respect, because pissing on half of Obama's constituency will never win Obama the election in 2012.

        ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

        by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 11:03:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Unless you are a leftist puritan whinner like (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      deaniac83, Larsstephens, gobears2000

      some I see here who has infested this place, you should not be worried about that saying. Just saying...

      ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

      by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:18:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sales report WAS good, most other info here is... (19+ / 0-)
      ...pure, unadulterated, bullshit propaganda.

      Go over to Calculated Risk for real story, not the fairy tale contained in this diary.

      Housing prices are projected to drop another 5%-10%, throughout 2011, according to S&P.

      Unemployment, at best, is projected to abate only marginally (perhaps a few tenths of a percentage point; and it might, actually, increase next year).

      The Empire State Manufacturing Report was just about (don't remember the exact nos.) THE WORST it's ever been, in terms of month-over-month drop.

      And, if this diarist knew anything about economics, they'd know that increasing inventories is usually a reflection on diminished sales! And, inventories (in retail, anyway) in many sectors are usually at their height in the lead-up to shopping season, too (this time of year).

      The problem is--and has been--DEMAND. (Which is why the sales numbers were surprisingly good...not great, mind you. Just pretty good.)

      And, by the way, indication of [http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/...
       increasing exports] mean little if there's no comparison to the import numbers. With the cost of oil high, right now, I'd hesitate before making any comments about those metrics.

      All that aside, any doubts I had about this diarist being an asshat are now gone. Anyone who'd talk about whining from the left--while comparing them to teapartiers--is unabashedly engaged in propaganda from ports unknown.

      This diarist's work, pimping "economic good news," frequently when it's merely a distortion of facts which tell us something entirely different, is not doing ANYONE in this community a service. They're merely adding to the confusion/cognitive dissonance.

      "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

      by bobswern on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:23:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  BTW, the jobs forecast through 2011 is NOT good... (14+ / 0-)
        ...at all. In fact, most major pundits are further cutting GDP projections; and, that means they're downgrading an already-paltry employment forecast for 2011, as well.

        In fact, in the past 48 hours, McBride, over at Calculated Risk, actually said we'll be lucky to keep pace with the birth-death ratio in 2011, and the jobs situation may actually worsen.

        That royally sucks!

        So, if you want to further alienate Main Street regarding Democratic pronouncements about our "recovery Summer," or "recovery in 2011," I'd tell you to keep listening to this diarist's distortions. That's probably what many GOP'ers would want us to do, since it would just support the fact that Democrats have appeared to be out of touch with sentiments elsewhere.

        What part of "do what you've done and you'll get what you've got" do people rec'ing this diary NOT understand?

        "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

        by bobswern on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:32:51 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  yep (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Uberbah, bobswern, priceman, nchristine, Wolf10

          so goes Walmart so goes US retail.

          Walmart US revenue is down a lot, and they expect a 1 to 2% drop in revenue in same store US sales in the 4th quarter. That's bad, really bad.

          US Retail is taking it on the chin, but you would never know it by happy talkers spew. Why , because most people have no idea what the difference between earnings and revenue is.  Plus they see Walmart made a nice profit the third quarter so happy days must be here again.  God forbid they actually look at the numbers, cost cutting and internatonal sales allowed walmart to make a profit, it did so in spite of a lousy US market.

          Increased revenue equals increase in jobs,  and Revenue right now sucks in the US retail market.

          The child has grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb.

          by dark daze on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:39:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  what is new with you...go ahead and live in (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          deaniac83, gobears2000

          the doom and gloom.

          In all honesty, is there any good news for you? Gawd!

          ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

          by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:50:04 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Falling home prices and rising mortgage defaults (11+ / 0-)

          National home prices fell 5% for the three months ending in October, while double-dip disparity still rages on a micro-market level, according to the Clear Capital Home Price Index.

          The data joins a chorus of bad news, both on Altos Research's falling home prices and an unexpected rise in mortgage defaults for first time this year according to an Amherst Securities report.

          Home prices dropped only 0.2% in the three months prior to September, but a major two-month decline through October had not been seen since early 2009. While prices in October remain 7.7% above 2009, they have dropped 6.8% from the year's peak in mid-August. Clear Capital said six of the largest local markets are officially in a double-dip.

          ...

          Prices dropped 3.1% in the West through October, 4.7% in the South, and 2.2% in the Northeast. In the Midwest, though, prices dropped 8.7%.
          http://www.housingwire.com/...

          •  I consider both of those to be good news (0+ / 0-)

            I'm a renter in the SF Bay Area and real estate prices are still WAY out of whack with people's incomes. I'm looking forward to prices continuing to drop by another 10-20% over the next year. Also there is such a huge backlog of mortgage defaults that the faster we can get through them all, the faster we can let housing prices fall to where they should be.

            Californians: The Courage Campaign is working for changing the 2/3 budget rule and for ending Prop 8. Go!

            by tmo on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 06:44:48 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  You're Right (4+ / 0-)

        This diarist's work, pimping "economic good news," frequently when it's merely a distortion of facts which tell us something entirely different, is not doing ANYONE in this community a service. They're merely adding to the confusion/cognitive dissonance.

        You can get just as much mojo for ignoring anything positive and telling people they're all going to die, and since people EXPECT you to be a total asshole when that's your outlook, you actually get RECS for being a total asshole.

        Dear Wall Street: If you want to stop feeling like a piƱata, stop stuffing yourself with our f#@$ing candy.

        by TooFolkGR on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:36:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What a bogus statement is this... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deaniac83, gobears2000

        And, if this diarist knew anything about economics, they'd know that increasing inventories is usually a reflection on diminished sales! And, inventories (in retail, anyway) in many sectors are usually at their height in the lead-up to shopping season, too (this time of year).

        The diarist assertion in simple English for you is, when there is a sales peak, orders to manufacturers will also peak which usually gives manufacturers an indication to up their productivity, which means increasing their work force to meet the demand, et al.

        You are so sure of yourself, calling you self righteous is an understatement.

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:48:54 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  So what about the same labeling thats giving to (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deaniac83

        the president. You guys also need to stop with the gloom and doom. because you don't agree with the president is no reason for the vile rhetoric.

    •  F%CKING HEAR HEAR!!!! (0+ / 0-)

      This asshole has a lot of fuckin nerve pissing on half of the democratic electorate with his insulting remarks.

      Yeah, as if ... fucking valid fucking criticisms are "whining!"

      The DLC and their allies better damn well learn that the days when they can spew their bullshit spin, (all the while, disparaging the informed) to an ignorant spoon-fed populace is over.

      Hey Deaniac, "How's that pissin' on the Progressive Liberal Caucus workin for you in the House?"

      The bluedog's got slaughtered this election, for a reason, (because they lost the enthusiasm of the progressive liberals) and the sooner the DLC and their tools, wise up, the better.

      ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

      by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 11:10:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I also reject terms like "Left Puritan" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nchristine

      I think there is nothing to be gained by creating new pejoratives.

      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."--Evelyn Beatrice Hall. "Hide the troll!"--StevenJoseph

      by StevenJoseph on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 07:18:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You, Deaniac83, are an Obamabot (8+ / 0-)

    You see, there is no good news.  There can be no good news.  There never will be good news.

    To you and your ilk, I can only say, "Geithner."  And, might I add, "Rahm."  No longer here, but still.  

    Put that in your Summers and Axelrod it.

    Andrew Mellon & GOP: 'In a Depression, assets return to their rightful owners'

    by Tuffie on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:10:30 PM PST

  •  Thank you for making it elementary for some (6+ / 0-)

    puritans to understand the just of it. The Obama recovery while ain't going to bring back the 8 million jobs lost in a snap, it sure as hell has stopped the bleeding of this economy and producing positive numbers we as Democrats should be embracing and happy about. Thank you!

    ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

    by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:23:35 PM PST

    •  Readers here are not stupid (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Uberbah, ThisIsMyTime, gobears2000

      You should be more worried about the WH and DNC communicating this to registered voters between now and Nov 2012.

      Either that or hope against hope that the GOP goes so off the handle that Stimulus and HCR are distant memories.

      •  Man...GP, it has been a while. How have you been? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        George Pirpiris, Larsstephens, qua

        I didn't mean it that all purist don't know it but just some who are always emotional, it affects their judgment. However, it is not only the WH and DNC's role to communicating this to registered voters, it is our responsibility at our jobs, with our families, our friends, at social events, et al, to spread the good we have done. I think deaniac is doing a great job trying to help the WH and DNC. Good to see you, Friend!

        ...We have many more issues that bind us together than separate us!

        by ThisIsMyTime on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:44:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Been doing good (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ThisIsMyTime, qua

          just taking breaks here and there for sanity's sake.

          I put creating talking points around economic milestones really in the hands of the powerful, because in the end perception is reality, the press creates perception, and the press in the end always bows it's head to power, even if the power is not that popular.

          My main fear is people's general lack of knowledge on economics and financing allow them to be easily misled by singular factors, which is why the "Recovery" should be hammered on by the White house as a continuous and successful work in progress.
          (ie use the bully pulpit!)

          Even educated folks (I just have to think back to my college days in 2001 to remember the knee jerk reactions to DOW numbers from the trust funders) don't get politics let alone macro economics.
          So messaging around a high unemloyment rate (assuming everyone remembers 5% was considered stable before the crash) is key.

          And if there are any "puritans" kicking the dirt at news like this, blow your nose, wipe your tears and wake up.
          Regardless of who is in power this is our country, we live here, our success is paramount to our collective survival.

          While Europe is tripping over itself, imposing austerity and already failing at it, we still have a chance to improve and increase our social safety nets and our economy.

          If that happens, and Europe continues on it's path, we will take back the torch of "Most Succesful SOCIALIST Democracy" back from those froggy EU'ers :D

    •  While I don't have a time machine (3+ / 0-)

      of this much I am absolutely certain: Had John McCain and Sarah Palin taken the helm of our economy on January 20, 2009, we would be in a Depression right now.  People think 9.6% unemployment is bad.  And it is.  But try 20% for a comparison.  That with no unemployment benefits, no expansion of Medicaid, no reforms to pull back on the abuses on the credit card companies, no stimulus package at all.

      Things are bad, but they are getting better.  That's the objective truth.

    •  We're coming up on two years (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slinkerwink, badger, Uberbah, Wolf10, PhilJD

      since the stimulus bill was passed.  Nobody expected things to get significantly better "in a snap" as you assert.  Let's be realistic, oh, and truthful.

  •  Too bad this news (3+ / 0-)

    couldn't have arrived a month or two ago, but it is welcome news nevertheless.

    But the administration should not make the same mistake it made a year ago when it interpreted similarly heartening economic news as evidence that more stimulus and job measures weren't needed.  If anything, further stimulus and job measures are needed more than ever to really help the recovery really spread its wings.  Because while the 151,000 jobs created last month was great news, it still wasn't enough to bring down unemployment.  More stimulus might be exactly what's needed to increase the number of jobs created to levels that will bring down the unemployment rate.

    "However, these are not normal times; the people are jumpy and very ready to run after strange gods." - Franklin Roosevelt c. 1935

    by puakev on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:24:39 PM PST

  •  I appreciate the optimistic tone of this diary, (8+ / 0-)

    but until  the unemployment figures drop significantly, talk of recovery is simply silly.

  •  The Obama Recovery... that's what I'm... (5+ / 0-)

    freakin' talkin' about deaniac83. :-)

    I propose a toast, knowing that our ties subsist because they are not of iron or steel or even of gold, but of the silken cords of the human spirit. 11/9/10

    by BarackStarObama on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 04:29:42 PM PST

  •  This is a good number and easy to sell (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deaniac83, ThisIsMyTime, gobears2000

    politically, but it has to follow with other good news.
    Add an increase of exports, GDP, wages all coupled in a talking point could overpower unemployment rates assuming they don't budge.

    Watch for this story to make it to the MSM between now and a few days after new years, lets hope it spreads.

  •  So I read the whole thing (12+ / 0-)

    and I'm still looking for the "Huge" in "Huge Retail Sales Gains and the Obama Jobs Recovery."

  •  You mean to tell me that retail sales... (6+ / 0-)

    and the hiring of employees happened around the retail-driven holidays?

    Who'da thunk it?!

    More and Better Democrats

    by SJerseyIndy on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:29:35 PM PST

  •  the republicans will claim credit... (0+ / 0-)

    doesn't matter if it's true, they will claim it and America will believe it, after all, they took the House, and now good economic news? Of course the credit belongs to them..

    what did buddha say to the hotdog man? make me one with everything

    by steelman on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:48:34 PM PST

  •  It was Wal Mart that scored the biggest gains. (0+ / 0-)

    Abercrombie & Fitch was second:  How long do you think rich, and poor people can go without new socks and underwear?

    "I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean I love the country but I can't stand the scene." - Leonard Cohen (Democracy)

    by LamontCranston on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 05:55:55 PM PST

  •  Caution: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nchristine

    There is cause for some optimism here. However, the falling dollar and the enforced slowdown in China are contraindicators.

  •  Since when, with some here, does (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deaniac83, ThisIsMyTime

    managing to avoid a depression and leading us through a recession (the latter being preferable to the former) mean not creating jobs? How about all those jobs that would have been lost? Whatever happened to a penny saved is a penny earned? A job saved is a job earned, period.

  •  it's true... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nchristine

    ...unemployment is on the way down.

    The Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia released its survey of a panel of 43 economic forecasters yesterday. Their forecast for unemployment over the next five quarters was:

    2010 Q4: 9.6%
    2011 Q1: 9.5%
    2011 Q2: 9.4%
    2011 Q3: 9.2%
    2011 Q4: 9.0%
    
    Their forecast of average annual unemployment was:
    
    2010: 9.7%
    2011: 9.3%
    2012: 8.7%
    

    So it appears that sometime in mid-2012, the Obama campaign will be able to boast that they brought unemployment below 9% for the first time in more than three years.

    Prison rape is not funny.

    by social democrat on Tue Nov 16, 2010 at 07:12:46 PM PST

  •  Deaniac... A word of PR Media advice, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nchristine

    whilst the positive affirmations are good and healthy, and generally speaking, I am in support of them, but when the DLC's "RA RA" crowd has lost its credibility, these positive outlook diaries are aggravating to some, and thus, potentially, become flame wars. A more tempered analysis, with less hyperbole, on all sides, might better serve your cause. I realize that you want to caste Obama's achievements in a positive light, (to caste Obama in a positive light,) and I would love that, I really would, but substantive work, and substantive principles, with consistency, with a tempered perspective, are needed, not hyperbole, and then, and only then, will the message resonate and resound, without flack or resistance.

    From another diary yesterday that you would do well to read and consider, before posting any more diaries of this nature:

    Starting tomorrow, the message needs to be this:

    These are the things we are going to work on to pass into law.  These are the nominees I will want approved so our courts do not atrophy.  Lame duck or no lame duck - this is what I feel - and what Democrats feel - is the best path forward, so we are going to get stuff done RIGHT NOW so Americans can see improvements to their lives.   People's lives did not stop on Election Day, and neither did ours.  

    We push forward.  

    Bush's tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires - GONE.

    Step up and be part of America's recovery.

    The sooner we consolidate the Democratic Base with a message that WE ALL can align behind, the sooner the enthusiasm will return.

    just sayin ...

    ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

    by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 10:02:24 AM PST

    •  ... and drop the "and left puritan whining" BS/ (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Uberbah, nchristine

      ... BULLSHIT jibe.

      Are you trying to start a flame war?

      Really!

      Cause, I don't know what you hope to achieve by pissing off people who have entirely valid concerns. You are only DAMAGING relations with (by pissing on) HALF of Obama's constituency, with insulting remarks like that, so please, just can it, okay?

      You will NEVER win this PRO-OBAMA media campaign by seeking to invalidate valid criticisms. What will happen is that those criticisms will only get louder and louder, and the criticisms will only get more and more vicious. You will be causing the exact opposite, of what, I honestly believe you want to achieve. Now, if you are only wanting to piss off and alienate the progressive liberal base, then you are doing a damn good job of it.

      And, for the record, I am not cynical, I am critical, and there is a profound difference.

      ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

      by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 10:20:16 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And I am serious, Deaniac, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Uberbah, nchristine

        you would do well to stop your bullshit crapy attempt to frame valid criticisms as merely "left puritan whining" ... really, that is just pure underhanded insulting bullshit fucking crap.

        And what it does, is it makes you a part of the "Corporate Lie."

        ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

        by ArthurPoet on Wed Nov 17, 2010 at 10:25:49 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  So how does it make supporters of the pres (0+ / 0-)

          feel when we see comments calling him "Barry," (I guess they forgot to go the full Barry Soetoro like they wanted to say), a liar, a republican hack, someone who hates democrats, etc. getting rec after rec?

          How do supporters of the president feel when all of the accomplishments he's done in 2 years are reduced to a total failure and disappointment (by the people who I assume loved Clinton and Carter for their massive successes).

          How do we feel when we're called defeatists who want the republicans to win by the same people who say that they couldn't be bothered to vote in the midterms and support a primary campaign against Obama, while simultaneously blaming him and not themselves for any losses?

          Your entire cynical whining rants are, in the words of a self admitted cynical whiner.

          just pure underhanded insulting bullshit fucking crap.

          I hope you enjoy your bashing of the president and alienating his progressive liberal base that don't believe the president is the scum of the earth. You're doing a damn good job of it.

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