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As the clock continues to run on the Lame Duck Congress, we've been told repeatedly that there just may not be enough time to allow a vote on repealing "don't ask, don't tell," with a recent report saying:

... that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is working behind the scenes to get Don't Ask, Don't Tell repealed this year, but didn't commit to keeping Senators in town longer than planned to get it done.

That "longer than planned," by the way, is the arbitrary December 17th target date set by Reid, apparently feeling that it's more important for Senators to get a jump on their holiday shopping than to do their job.

And today it looks like Reid has an official excuse lined up for punting on ending the military's odious, discriminatory policy:

In a nutshell, Collins is asking Democratic leaders for unlimited debate on the defense bill. Reid, in turn, is offering Collins a compromise: votes on 10 separate amendments, seven of which would come from Republicans, three of which would come from Democrats.

Collins has responded that this isn't good enough, and she'll refuse to let the Senate vote up or down on the legislation.

Is Collins being unreasonable? Of course. So what else is new? Collins and her fellow Republicans have been calling for two weeks of debate despite the fact that in the past:

The Senate has spent five days (or fewer) debating the defense authorization bill nine times. And, once ... it took one day. On average, the process includes votes on about 12 amendments -- though sometimes they vote on as many as 20 or 30 or as few as one or two.

... but as I argued the other day:

... if Senate Republicans insist they need the time, give it to them. Take away their stated reason for not having a vote and let them have the national stage for two weeks to make their case -- because God knows they'll never be able to keep a lid on the bigotry fueling their opposition for that long.

Harry Reid may want wrap things up and get home for the holidays, but the fact is this lame-duck session can run right up until the 112th Congress is sworn in on January 5.

We've heard a lot of whining from Senate Democrats in recent days about wanting to fight -- well here's their chance. They need to put down the eggnog, put off their extended holiday break and fight to end the military's official policy of discriminating against millions of Americans.

The Republicans will do anything they can to keep this policy. It's up to Senate Democrats to fight to end it. In the end they may lose the fight, but they have to at least try.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:00 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  If we don't end it this (12+ / 0-)

    session, the impetus will be lost.  C'mon Harry!  Show us what you've got!

    We've got serious work to do. Health care and civil rights for all, please!

    by the dogs sockpuppet on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:02:25 AM PST

    •  Worse than the impetus. The opportunity (8+ / 0-)

      Speaker Boehner would never let repeal come up for a vote. Any chance is in the lame duck. Or 2013 or later.

      Now passing 1,000 Choi Units into the Obama administration.

      by Scott Wooledge on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:12:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Absolutely... opportunity and impetus.. (0+ / 0-)

        We've got serious work to do. Health care and civil rights for all, please!

        by the dogs sockpuppet on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:28:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  i know people are pissed at the President, but (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rainmanjr, Curiosity

        they all need to be AS outraged or MORE that the 59 Democratic caucus is not willing to go to the fucking floor and fight a filibuster through a goddamn recess!!

        thank god some of them are but they are far too few.

        i hold every single senator in the democratic caucus personally responsible of dadt is not ended without a fight to the day the newly elected senators take over.  every single goddamn one of them.  

        and anyone who gives them a pass while comparing President Obama to a nazi appeaser, markos i'm looking at you, is full of shit.

        if President Obama is chamberlain then every single senator in the democratic caucus is chamberlain too if they don't fight for ending dadt to the very end.

        A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

        by bluefaction on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:32:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't bring up Obama (0+ / 0-)

          and don't know why you replied to me. I wish you hadn't either.

          Now passing 1,000 Choi Units into the Obama administration.

          by Scott Wooledge on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:38:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  wow. you sure are nice. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rainmanjr

            i briefly mentioned Obama because i'm contrasting the amount of pressure being placed on him to the amount of pressure being placed on the people who are actually responsible for ending dadt in the senate.  and the senate seems to be sneaking by without being called out by hiding behind the president.  at least to me.  and since we are talking about having a tiny window left to have dadt end until, as you said in your comment, boner takes over in the house, i want to put pressure on the senate.

            what's with the 'i wish you hadn't either' comment?  am i not pure enough of a democrat for you to have on your side?  you just want the democrats who totally agree with everything you say and you don't need anyone else?  i don't know what issues you care about, aside from ending dadt obviously, but i take whoever i can get to support what i want on issues.  

            wow.  talk about getting a cold shoulder.

            A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

            by bluefaction on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:55:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  lol, I thought the same thing. (0+ / 0-)

              I went back and read your comment 3 more times looking for whatever I obviously missed.  I suddenly realized that I didn't miss anything and that Clarknt67 is just out-there.  I wonder if he didn't misread you but don't know how he could have, either.

              "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

              by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 12:45:10 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Susan Collins... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        deep, rainmanjr, Clarknt67, Gay In Maine

        is NOT going to rescue DADT.

        She'll waver and waffle and come up with a kazillion reasons why she needs more time, but Susan Collins is so freaked by the Maine right wing right now and the threat of being primaried that the LAST thing she wants on her resume is any suggestion that she might have helped pass a measure that the right wing vehemently and sometimes violently opposes.

        She's as bad as John McCain in her efforts to keep shifting the goal posts.  Her goal is to make sure she never has to actually cast a vote.

        Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.

        by dweb8231 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:34:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  why do we need her anyway? (0+ / 0-)

          is there a dem or ind who is saying they won't vote for the defense authorization bill?  i thought we have scott brown?  collins can go fuck herself and her bullshit excuses for fucking over soldiers.

          A man abstemious, rigidly upright, inflexibly honest, ferociously chaste. A man with every virtue, except humility and human kindness. - Ellis Peters

          by bluefaction on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:36:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'm cautiously optimistic (11+ / 0-)

    However, I've been there before.

    •  Punt Lucy (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subterranean, JimWilson, Curiosity

      that way you know you'll get the ball.

      America legalized torture before they legalized marijuana.
      Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!

      by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:27:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It ain't gonna get a vote! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rainmanjr, Gay In Maine

      Another simple answer to a simple question!

      The GOP has the filibuster and the calendar and they do NOT want this passed.  It will not happen.

      Nearly 3/4ths of Americans think raising the limit on Social Security income taxation is the best way to resolve any problems with SS.

      A majority of the military, military leaders and the public think DADT is overdue.

      A majority of Americans think giving major tax breaks to the ultra rich is wrong.

      A majority of Americans think Citizens United needs to be overturned.

      A minority of the Senate will make sure none of this ever happens.  That's democracy for you!

      Free markets would be a great idea, if markets were actually free.

      by dweb8231 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:38:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This just couldn't be what F.F. had in mind. (0+ / 0-)

        Jefferson liked protection from the mob by giving the minority power.  Still, I don't believe he'd have wanted to see the majority be blocked from ending discrimination, providing his nation with health care or many of the other issues they've blocked.  Adams and Washington certainly wouldn't have approved.
        If only Socialists had won the Revolution.

        "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

        by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 12:56:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Best comment in this thread. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clarknt67

      Captures the moment perfectly.

      "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

      by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 12:46:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lieberman, Reid and Obama are trying to work (15+ / 0-)

    to get Susan Collins to agree to a cloture vote.

    Apparently they have all 58 democrats, an unnamed Republican (my guess it is Voinovich) and they are trying to get Susan Collins to vote for cloture to get to 60.

    This is high stakes poker.

    I say if Collins wants unlimited debate give it to her and keep debating even if they miss Christmas.  

    This is just too important.

    Jim Manley: "Republicans are making love to Wall Street, while the people on Main Street are getting screwed."

    by Drdemocrat on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:03:49 AM PST

  •  Hope it gets repealed ASAP (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    deep, sherlyle, Loge

    Republicans secret dream = the impeachment of Bo the Dog LOL

    by LaurenMonica on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:03:51 AM PST

  •  I posted a diary about this a few minutes ago (13+ / 0-)

    This is the 2nd time Susan Collins has pulled this.  "I want to vote to repeal DADT, but I want unlimited debate so that my GOP colleagues that are against it can kill it before it comes up for a vote."

    She's a master at this.

    I'm thinking about making it my spiritual journey to love others, [but] I fear the morons will disappoint me. - Rat, Pearls Before Swine

    by Gay In Maine on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:04:02 AM PST

  •  Lieberman is working HARD to keep the (7+ / 0-)

    Senate in session Christmas week to get this done.  He's working Collins now, I hear.

    Joe Lieberman, progressive hero.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White

    by zenbassoon on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:04:26 AM PST

  •  Meanwhile, Obama's just going to pout (3+ / 0-)

    Way to leave the playing field Mr. Advocate.

  •  tell Harry to keep them in Washington (11+ / 0-)

    until every bill that has been filibustered gets an up or down vote.

    That is called taking their precious recess HOSTAGE.

    Who's with me?  LEts go!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Republicans===the party of the 1% rich people in America. Or in other words..The Party of NO!

    by jalapeno on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:06:29 AM PST

    •  Bu-bu-but only Republicans can do that! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DEMonrat ankle biter

      How I wish I were joking...

      neca politicos omnes; deus nullos agnoscet.

      by khereva on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:31:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Shhh. They don't like that word; hostage. (0+ / 0-)

      It upset dere wittow ears.  I loved watching Rollins get irate when Wolf asked him about the press conference. lol.  Now they've all picked up the meme, I gather.  Obama played that PC just right and he was pissed.  He did not like having to make this deal at all but believes it's that important for people and economy.  I can't say he's wrong.

      "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

      by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 01:12:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Have they reached out to Log Cabin Republicans (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sherlyle, Nailbanger, DollyMadison

    for a little push?

    Not snark. I would guess those folks have a few strings they can pull -- not to mention dollars.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:06:48 AM PST

    •  maybe some old fashioned backmail? n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

      by Loge on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:15:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  They Were Bashing Reid (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rainmanjr, Gay In Maine

      because he supposedly should have let the Republicans join in the amendment process last time. Here was their statement:

      (Washington, DC) –– The Log Cabin Republicans are troubled by the parochial political actions of Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) who has refused to compromise with Senate Republicans by holding a full and open debate on the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). Rather than reaching a compromise allowing for ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ to be repealed, the Senate has postponed action until after the election.

      "Obviously, we are disappointed.  Senator Reid failed to reach a compromise with Republicans and our military servicemembers will need to wait until the November elections are over for the US Senate to vote on a repeal." says R. Clarke Cooper, Executive Director, Log Cabin Republicans.  "This partisan arrogance is an example of why voters will be turning away from Democrats on November 2nd.

      Why should we think the Log Cabin Republicans would not support what the Republicans are doing when they supported them doing the exact same last time around? They didn't bring in a single damned Republican vote last time and they aren't going to do anything this time.

      It bears to remember - the Log Cabin Republicans are Republicans first, and gay right proponents second.

      •  LCR update (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rainmanjr, lostboyjim

        Here's their press release today:

        (Washington, DC) - As the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011 likely moves toward the Senate floor for a vote, Log Cabin Republicans call upon the Majority Leader to allow for a fair amendment process and open debate to facilitate repeal of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.’

        "There is strong bipartisan support for passing the National Defense Authorization Act and ending ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ if Republicans are given a fair say in the final version of the defense bill," said R. Clarke Cooper, Log Cabin Republicans Executive Director. "After studying the Pentagon’s Working Group report and hearing testimony from the Secretary of Defense, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and each Service Chief that our military is ready and willing to implement open service, there is no reason for further delay. Passage of the NDAA is vital to the work of our armed forces. Americans can be confident our professional military men and women will have the same success implementing a policy of nondiscrimination applied by many of our allies.

        Today, the Majority Leader stated that he will likely announce the amendment process for the NDAA this evening. Log Cabin Republicans strongly encourages him to allow for a fair and open debate that will bring Republican votes to the table so military funding will be authorized and we can finally put this failed and unconstitutional policy to rest."

        Log Cabin Republicans have maintained a three-front strategy against ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,’ lobbying for repeal in Congress, consulting with the Department of Defense, and filing suit in federal court.  The case went to trial in July of 2010, and Judge Virginia Phillips ruled on September 9, 2010 that the policy violated the First and Fifth Amendments of the Constitution.

        Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

        by CDH in Brooklyn on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:21:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  They're taking Collins line (5+ / 0-)

          "Allow a fair amendment process" means "let the GOP set the rules of the debate so they can run out the clock".

          Remember, the Log Cabin Republicans have a stake in this - and it's not getting it repealed through the legislative process.  It's getting it overturned by the courts with their lawsuit.

          That way they are heros and they can say the Democrats did nothing.

          I'm thinking about making it my spiritual journey to love others, [but] I fear the morons will disappoint me. - Rat, Pearls Before Swine

          by Gay In Maine on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:30:37 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Indeed. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sesquioxide, rainmanjr

            Not a single word in their release calling on Republican senators to compromise with Reid on the definition of "fair and open debate."  I'm not a member so I don't know if they sent a call-to-action e-mail to their members though.

            Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

            by CDH in Brooklyn on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:36:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Very perceptive, Gay. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sesquioxide

            I wouldn't trust them to make good on that deal, either.  If they're against it then just do the right thing and repeal it.  No more debate is really necessary.  Time to shit or get shit on.

            "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

            by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 01:20:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Nice sig line. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CDH in Brooklyn

          I'm sometimes reminded, out of the blue, of the clever way Dr. Seuss put things.  Yours made me miss him, a bit.

          "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

          by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 01:18:26 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  ORLY? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dinotrac

        It bears to remember - the Log Cabin Republicans are Republicans first, and gay right proponents second.

        That must be why they took the Bush DOJ to court to repeal DADT, and are still out there working for it while Democratic gay groups just hold white parties.

        Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

        by lostboyjim on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:23:04 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I can't buy that line. (0+ / 0-)

        Gay is something you are.
        Politics is something you do.

        The only successful legal challenge to DADT so far was launched by Gasp! Log Cabin Republicans.

        Question: Has anybody offered up a bill specifically and only on DADT?

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:51:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yea! (0+ / 0-)

      I taught they said they have 5 rep senators that will vote for this thing where are they?.

  •  Let me put on my tap dancin' shoes and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gay In Maine

    do a number for you that you all know and love.

    The 'ol soft shoe!  See me dance and turn?  Listen to the clicks of my taps as they meet the wooden floor.  Watch my smile and see me roll my top hat down my arm into my outstretched and waiting hand!  Clap, NO  CLAP LOUDER and you watch me, me, me, me, me...............

    Meanwhile, Susan's Republican friends just demolished any chances of DADT getting through, once again.  You could have seen it happening.  It was right behind her.  But you were watching her one-woman-tap dance instead......

    Sarah Palin 2012!!! Prove the Mayans right...

    by funluvn1 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:09:03 AM PST

  •  I don't know if it's Reid or not who is the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr, cocinero

    problem, but if it is him, doesn't he, um, like, owe the Democrats a little of his holiday time?   He's lucky he even still has this job, so he might want to appear a little appreciative.

    Harry Reid may want wrap things up and get home for the holidays

    President Obama's chief adviser: "I go to bed early. I can't stay awake for the returns... I gotta get up, work out."

    by gooderservice on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:09:04 AM PST

  •  Stay and do your F**king job (7+ / 0-)

    Doing nothing is very easy for Republican party to do ... you never know when there finished. Me 2009

    by army193 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:09:04 AM PST

  •  Call into Senator's districts from home (10+ / 0-)
    Coolio call-from-home call tool that allows you to call constituents of recalcitrant-but-persuadable members of Congress while wearing pjs and eating Cheetos:

    OFA Call Tool.

    Call them and urge them to call their Senator! We did this last week (and will do it again tonight) and the people we spoke with were VERY happy to make the calls.

    To be clear, it's "EClectablog", not "Electablog".
    Become a fan of Eclectablog on Facebook.

    by Eclectablog on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:10:09 AM PST

  •  Action Diary (10+ / 0-)

    currently on the rec list, let's keep it there please. Contact information for targeted Senators. We can walk and chew gum. We can bring in a victory today. Yes, we can.

    Now passing 1,000 Choi Units into the Obama administration.

    by Scott Wooledge on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:11:03 AM PST

  •  Take the funding hostage, too (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr, jayden

    Refuse "security state" funding, because it's really$1.4 trillion. Pull up the veil during the filibuster.

    .

    ..spending on the American security state is dispersed throughout the federal budget. So while next year’s defense spending, narrowly defined, is expected to come in at $711 billion, when you include all the extra dollars hidden away in other parts of the budget, that number will rise to as high as $1.45 trillion. That would represent around 40 percent of next year’s budget.

    "Remember that no stranger can touch or see your private area, unless it's a government employee, then it's OK."

    by mrobinson on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:11:27 AM PST

  •  I don't like what the Senate has been doing but - (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chicating, rainmanjr

    How is scheduling a normal break before Christmas "an arbitary date"?

    They sometimes work past the break they plan to take, but I don't understand how a regularly scheduled vacation they take almost every year can be fairly described as "an arbitrary date".

    Before last year, the Congress has rarely been in session during those weeks before and after Christmas in the past 100 years.

    According to Ritchie, who cited the Congressional Record, the House and Senate were in session during the holiday recess in the following sessions:

    • 96th, because of a government shutdown (1979-1981)

    • 91st, during the Vietnam War (1969-1971)

    • 88th, after President John F. Kennedy's assassination (1963-1965)

    • 81st, because of the Korean War (1949-1951)

    • 77th and 76th, because of World War II (1939-1943)

    And I think that they should work late this year, due to the upcoming Republican takeover, and because the Republicans have been so obstructionist in the past 2 years.

    But I don't understand the "arbitrary date" thingy. The 17th is a Friday, giving them a week off before Christmas Eve. It doesn't seem very "arbitrary" to me.

    •  Seems pretty arbitrary to me (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      khereva

      since all other federal workers work until December 24th.

      •  IIRC, the continuing resolution to cover the (0+ / 0-)

        failure to pass budgets or appropriations runs out on Dec. 18 and I have seen nothing that says that will get done either. I do not know what they are doing in the scheduling but it sounds messed up, and all the work of all thepeople who got DADT this far and alot of other things this far can be destroyed by scheduling.

      •  And also in the week after, between X and NY. (0+ / 0-)
      •  Nope, most don't work until that day (0+ / 0-)

        Most use vacation time to take off both before and after Christmas, many choosing that Friday, December 17th to be their last day at work.

        Just like many schools have their last day at school that date.

        It's not an "arbitrary date".

        They typically get a holiday from a week or so before Christmas until a couple of days after the New Year.

        Do you understand what "arbitrary" means?

        1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle

        Synonyms: arbitrary, capricious, whimsical
        These adjectives mean determined by or arising from whim or caprice rather than judgment or reason

        Seems to me that there's reason behind his decision to schedule that the holiday will start on a Friday a week before Christmas Eve.

        And again, I don't think that they should take that holiday, because of the reasons I already stated.

        •  I was born in the District of Columbia (0+ / 0-)

          and raised in the Washington, DC suburbs. I've lived here all my life. My immediate family works, or has worked, for the federal government. Federal workers are expected to work up until December 24th. (Of course, since Christmas is a Saturday this year, they get the day on Christmas Eve.) They typically get let out 1-4 hours early on Christmas Eve, but the release time for each agency varies, as it is the discretion of each Department Secretary. If you want to take vacation time prior to December 24th, a federal worker can do that, provided they have the days, just as they can at any time of the year. Federal workers go back to work the next work day after Christmas. They get off for New Years Day, but not for New Years Eve.

          So, I don't know where you get your information from. But I've lived it for 30 years. Here is the 2010 list of holidays for federal employees.

          •  Did you read my first sentence then forget it? (0+ / 0-)

            Most use vacation time to take off both before and after Christmas

            So, no, most don't work until December 24th.

            What part of that don't you understand?

            The Senate gets lots of time off - they don't have preset amounts of vacation, but taking off a week before Christmas isn't an arbitrary thing as the FP'er suggested!

            They (they being Senators - remember the topic of discussion about them (Senator Reid and his colleagues) choosing an arbitrary date?)typically get a holiday from a week or so before Christmas until a couple of days after the New Year.

            •  Do you have data to back up that assertion? (0+ / 0-)

              Do you work for OPM and have the numbers to prove that "most" federal workers use vacation time leading up to, and after, the Christmas holiday? I'm guessing OPM probably has numbers on that, but that they're not made public.

              Because if you don't have actual numbers to back up your assertion, then why are you giving me attitude?

              •  I swear, do you think we can't read older posts? (0+ / 0-)

                Really?

                The issue is not what percentage of federal workers take vacation time.

                It's that they don't have to work all the way through Christmas Eve, just like the Senators don't typically have to work through Christmas Eve.

                That it's not an arbitrary thing for Senator Reid to plan on the Senate to have the week before Christmas off, and to start that holiday on the Friday before the holiday!

                And really, you doubt that most federal workers don't take off time between a week before Christmas and New Years? Really? Really?

                Most workers of all stripes take time off between a week before Christmas and New Years.

                And the Senate, in most years, takes off that week or so before Christmas!

                Really, this isn't rocket science. You're getting "attitude" because that's what you deserve for the comments you've been making!

                •  Your argument makes no sense (0+ / 0-)

                  You're comparing a federal worker taking a day of annual leave to Congress going into recess.

                  Not the same. AT ALL.

                  Federal workers don't get to choose how many annual leave days they get per year. (They get a set number of hours per pay period based on years of service.) Congress chooses how many days they are in recess -- and they choose to be in recess a lot.

                  Now I'm just going to channel Barney Frank and be done with you: Trying to have a conversation with you has been like trying to argue with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it anymore.

                  •  I swear, still can't keep things in context? (0+ / 0-)

                    Go back to the beginning of this string and see if you can't figure it out!

                    I was comparing some people taking vacation to other people taking vacation! This isn't rocket science!

                    And I was never defending the number of days that the Senate takes off either!

                    But it's not some arbitrary date, as the FP'er suggested!

                    What part of that baffles you?

                    And yes, when people can't refute a thing I've written, they behave like you have here, with a baseless accusation that it's ME who's the problem here! I swear, get a freakin' clue!

  •  In this politicl climate, DADT repeal is DOA. (0+ / 0-)
    •  You don't know unless they put it to a vote. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      A Runner

      Theproblem here is Reid's unwillingness to do that, because even if the votes lose, the effort has been made. He coverts possible losses into confirmed losses despite the absence of a vote this way.

  •  DREAM too. (0+ / 0-)

    There is a chance they can get both. At worst Americans see who it is that opposes anything and everything.

    My bet is the Republicans flinch, especially on the DREAM act.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:17:50 AM PST

  •  I have to ask, Where are the Log Cabins in all (0+ / 0-)

    this. Can't they convince their drinking buddies to cross the isle and do the right thing?

  •  In order to "save time" (0+ / 0-)

    since the Republicans feel DADT should not be a priority in the line up ( Tax cuts being first for the defense of then nation of course), Reid needs to add DADT into the Defense Authorization Bill, using the salespitch that " When Arabic translators are being discharged at a high rate, this effects the safety of our troops.. would your son care if the tranlator was gay and doing his job, or would he prefer to deal with the locals himself without a translator? Make it part of the Defense bill and let the Republicans vote it down. This also gives cover to the fence sitters.... since the whole bill is more more important then a tiny piece of it.

  •  Time for Dems to Make "Hostage Politics" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr

    their political meme for describing Republican recalcitrance on this issue, middle class tax relief, UI, and START.

    "ingratiation and access . . . are not corruption." -- Justice Kennedy (Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, 2010)

    by Limelite on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:20:12 AM PST

  •  is Manchin & Nelson on board (0+ / 0-)

    It seems like DADT may not be all that popular in WV and Nelson being Nelson would probably try to screw it up. Seems to me in WV as long as Obama is president Manchin will have to vote like a republican while Rockefeller can probably do what he wants. I guess as long as they vote  for cloture that's all that matters.

  •  Sure seems like both sides are running out (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clarknt67, cocinero

    the clock.

    Collins's gambit is obvious and has been explained upthread already.  It's almost like the old sort of filibuster - they will just blather until time runs out.

    But, it's only December 7th.  If Reid had agreed last Friday, the 2 weeks of debate could have started yesterday and the vote theoretically done on the 17th.  If Reid were to agree right now, it could start tomorrow and those poooooooor senators could still get home a few days before Christmas.  They could even debate on Saturday and Sunday to help expedite matters a bit.  And I am Marie of Romania.

    Same ol' same ol'.

  •  God, people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr, Clarknt67

    They do what they want

    As the clock continues to run on the Lame Duck Congress, we've been told repeatedly that there just may not be enough time to allow a vote on repealing "don't ask, don't tell,"

    IF they REALLY wanted to do this, they'd do it.

    DADT is a whole lot like cannabis prohibition: rightwingers love it because they are human fuckups, and people on the left have tolerated is in part because they have either half believed it or they have seen repeal of it as "impossible".

    Or "now is not the time because we have some other infinitely more pressing issue" and "you are so selfish to keep bringing thie up".

    These fucking politicians can do what they wish and they do.

    DADT is experiencing footdrag at this point.

    They do not want to repeal it because they are mouth-breathing homophobes. So they make endless excuses to milk it along and get votes by PROMISING something warm and fuzzy and then not quite letting it happen once the votes  are in - just like they just did with giving our money to the rich.

    Our politician's jobs are to screw us.

    Give money to the rich, screw commoners, keep mar-ju-wanna illegal (mainly because it doesn't cause people to die as fast as tobacco, alcohol and firearms - they are OK with you having deadly stuff).

    I say don't hold your breath too hard.

    America legalized torture before they legalized marijuana.
    Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!

    by xxdr zombiexx on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:26:40 AM PST

  •  Barbara (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    khereva, rainmanjr

    I think you are giving to much credit to Collins (amazingly enough).  Lets just say that Reid does give here what she wants--do any of us really believe she won't just shift the goal posts?

    I think his maneuver today, whether it works or not, is the best chance we've got.

    Its shit or get off the pot time.  If she is just trying to run out the clock so the senate can't address the DREAM act, we shouldn't let her.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:26:50 AM PST

    •  Unfortunately, (0+ / 0-)

      I don't think DREAM is going to happen. There are too many Democrats who are balking, and some previous Republican sponsors are now No votes (e.g. Hatch).

      DADT has a better chance, as most if not all Dems seem to be on board.

  •  And of course we were told time and time (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clarknt67, DEMonrat ankle biter

    again to just wait.  We shouldn't worry about the DOJ fighting the court cases because it was a done deal in Congress.  Wait til that all important survey came out and Congress would do the right thing.  We would peel off Repubs and they would vote our way.  All of the hysterical gays on this site needed to just shut up about the appeals in court and let Congress handle it.  Turns out most of us hysterical gays who aren't in a cult of personality saw the real world.

    "She refused to be bored, chiefly because she wasn't boring. " -- Zelda Fitzgerald

    by owilde69 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:31:42 AM PST

    •  Looks like that's possible. (0+ / 0-)

      But it's not reality, yet.  Reid is working on it behind the scenes (see the diary) so possibly he'll still pull it out.  Reid has demonstrated effective on doing that.  HCR passed on Xmas Eve.  If it does become reality then I'll get angry.

      "Only Democrats could lose in a popularity contest to someone MORE unpopular than themselves." - Bill Maher

      by rainmanjr on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 12:23:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  A typical day in the Senate runs roughly 10a-7p (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rainmanjr, Clarknt67, Curiosity

    so why not give Swine Flu Sue her 14 * 9 = 126 hours of debate all at once without adjournment.  If she has 126 hours worth of spewage to bring to the floor, then get it all over with in one shot.  Convene next Monday and be totally done debating it to death by the following Saturday.

    Having a policy does not mean receiving care. -- Tzimisce

    by Miggles on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 11:35:29 AM PST

  •  ONLINE POKER!! (0+ / 0-)

    He's focused on . . . ONLINE POKER!!

    Crissakes, symbolically and politically, I don't know that I have ever heard of anything stupider.

  •  If repeal passes in the lame duck session (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    itskevin, Curiosity

    the shock may cause me to turn straight.

    I really don't think I need to worry about that happening though.

  •  I'm skeptical that Collins will do anything (0+ / 0-)

    She just wants to run-out the clock, and she continues to say she supports repeal when in reality she's too squeamish to do anything

    Please support equality in California: http://www.couragecampaign.org

    by Curiosity on Wed Dec 08, 2010 at 01:25:29 PM PST

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