Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work nine or ten months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do -- babysit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage.

A friend on facebook shared this with me, and it's a hoot. Read on.

That's right. Let's give them \$3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be \$19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and planning -- that equals 6-1/2 hours).

So each parent should pay \$19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's \$19.50 x 30 = \$585 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET'S SEE....

That's \$585 X 180= \$105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage (\$7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to \$8.00 an hour. That would be \$8 X 6-1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = \$280,800 per year.

Wait a minute -- there's something wrong here! There sure is!

The average teacher's salary (nationwide) is \$50,000.

\$50,000/180 days = \$277.77 per day / 30 students = \$9.25 / 6.5 hours = \$1.42 per hour per student -- a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

WHAT A DEAL!!!!

Make a teacher smile; repost this to show appreciation for all educators.

Meredith Menden

#### Tags

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
 Unpublish Diary (The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.) Delete Diary (The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

#### Comment Preferences

• ##### No money crisis--(25+ / 0-)

The only problem is that there is no money crisis.  Walker hates unions and has an agenda to get rid of them.  While the unions that supported his election are currently exempt from his eliminationist agenda, you can be sure they will be next.  It's the principle of the thing, specifically people power.  If people control their public servants, then public officials can't be rulers.

It looks like what happened in Wisconsin is that the people who knew Walker best were keen to get rid of him.  So his election was an up-and-out event, like promoting someone it's hard to fire because he's got the goods on the people who hired him.  Many of the people in Congress got there the same way.  It's a bad habit we need to break because such people are basically crooks.  They need to be neutralized, not promoted.

Extortion, that's what's going on.

The conservative mind relies mainly on what is plain to see.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Wisconsin fiscal crisis(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
lisakaz

Wisconsin's fiscal crisis is Walker's creation.  He drilled a hole in the barrel and is whining that it's empty.  He gave away the state's money and now want to take it out on teachers.

The result will be students' heads will be empty, and any rational business that cares about its employees will relocate to a state that has decent schools.

• ##### Leaky barrels (0+ / 0-)

There seems to be a barrel like that in almost every red state, and there's the national barrel, called Congress, of course.

• ##### Walker is punching the programming button(0+ / 0-)

Of the Voters " all good people keep their bills paid up" and laying a guilt trip on the public to get people to go along with him. Repugs are masters of covert manipulation it is their Hallmark.  Debt ceilings, social security crisis , and all manner of manufactured crisis to one after another to get the sheeple to move the way they want...

" It is far worse that a conspiracy in America... It is a Tradition ....."

[ Parent ]

• ##### If anyone(0+ / 0-)

If anyone should get Paid  \$3.00  an hour
with NO benefits , it should be these corporate
owned elected officials (if you really believe they
were elected) which are the  ones which has destroyed
this nation and the welfare of the citizens which try
to work and survive here.
They are more beholding to corporations , foreign
nation than they  are for the citizens they are in
office to help and protect.

• ##### Great Idea!!! I am really sick of these(26+ / 0-)

babysitters, who are trying to ruin the country.

Forget Bankers, who have only bankrupted us, and foreclosed on our homes. Or corporate CEO's who have only offshored all our jobs, and want to reduce wages. Also not to blame are the corrupted politicians, who have been bought and paid for by rich teabaggers.

No, definitely the whole destruction of this country lies at the feet of teachers, who have the audacity to want a pension after 30 or 40 years of babysitting! Teachers and Firefighters and Policemen, they are the real cause of all our problems!!!!

So what if they are exhausted after all those years of earning good money of almost \$1.50 per hour, with SUMMERS OFF!!!!

They should all just be glad to live in this country with a constitution, (does the constitution say we have to pay them a pension? No, it does not!) and a Christian God, and a flag, and a bunch of other good stuff.

I'm tired of teachers trying to wreck everything for us, they are the cause of our financial crisis, and I think they need to suck it up and work for less!!!

My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me. Benjamin Disraeli

[ Parent ]

• ##### The issue isn't the teachers.(10+ / 0-)

The issue is the shitty attitude of people who dislike other people and their children, to boot.

Why do people dislike other people's children?  Mostly, I suspect it's because they're jealous of children who are loved and cared for, instead of abused like their parents abused them.  That's how abuse gets passed from generation to generation.  Children can't retaliate against their parents (until much later), so they pick on other people's children.

We know that's how bullies are made.  Why do we think they grow out of it?

The conservative mind relies mainly on what is plain to see.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Maybe, but..(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

I dislike children, but that doesn't mean I think teachers should get shafted.

Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

[ Parent ]

• ##### Damn right!(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mungley, MooseHB, sboucher

Sure, we put the future of our country's economic and social environment in their hands. Sure, we entrust the well-being and character development of our own children to their classroom for more waking hours per day than our own homes. I suppose we ought to pay them enough that they can afford to buy pencils and tissues for the classroom. But, really, shouldn't the stress and exhaustion be thanks enough for them?

Now, if only someone would babysit my money for that kind of pay, ...

Why is there a Confederate Flag flying in Afghanistan?

[ Parent ]

• ##### And they made me do my homework(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
DFWmom, 1864 House, Eikyu Saha, sboucher

which led to:

1) a college education (more teachers!), which led me to:
2) a fulfilling career, which made me:
3) a life-long taxpayer, that compensated:
4) the teachers who made it possible

May the circle be unbroken!

I never liked you and I always will.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Hey!(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

That is a regressive tax!

Who does this guy think he is, Steve Forbes?

/snark

Great video, I especially like the part about where states rank in test scores when educators are forbidden collective bargaining.

• ##### If only it were that easy...(0+ / 0-)

First of all, IF the shortfall is \$32 for each adult, that's \$64 for a couple and of course, more for every adult child still living at home.  Also, \$32 for every college student, every convict and every senior citizen living on only SS.

I would venture to say at least 50% of the adults would not cough up their \$32 for this pipe dream. Great idea though.  Let's carry it forward and make it \$1000 extra each year per adult and reduce our national debt to zero sometime in OUR LIFETIMES.

Nah, that wouldn't work either because the pols in DC (Dems and Reps) would fine some other way to spend it.  That's what they do BEST.

• ##### Remember you will have to give the wealthy (0+ / 0-)

A \$64 dollar tax credit for causing the debt , It's the Amercian way.

" It is far worse that a conspiracy in America... It is a Tradition ....."

[ Parent ]

• ##### The hottest thing out there today!(40+ / 0-)

Got this from seven or eight Facebook friends.

Jennifer Brunner for Governor of Ohio 2014

[ Parent ]

• ##### I'm glad this is making the rounds(15+ / 0-)

My wife and mother-in-law are both teachers and this was in an NEA newsletter years ago.

Seriously, if teachers are going to get the shaft, then they ought to just become independent contractors and bill the district for their time and expenses.

People need to treat teachers like professionals.  we treat high school kids who wipe up tables at a hamburger place with less scorn than our nation's teachers.

Sure, I'm grumpy, but I'm also a fun, fit, classy guy.

[ Parent ]

• ##### I always think of my hometown in MN ...(4+ / 0-)

My brother worked for a small town newspaper.  His boss, the editor -- the person responsible for the whole paper -- regularly worked 60-70 hours/week.  (The paper is really owned by a huge media conglomerate corporation in another state.  God forbid they should have paid him any sort of decent rate.)

The editor's wife was a full-time teacher in the local grade school.

They had three children.

And they still had to live on assistance because they weren't making enough money.

On another note, many of the teachers in my current town have to get second jobs -- at Wal-Mart and such places -- because their teaching jobs don't pay enough to live on.

So, yeah!  Let's attack teachers instead of ... oh, say ... Wall Street bankers and CEOs!

• ##### When I quit teaching, (0+ / 0-)

I started volunteering in the local Habitat for Humanity office. I realized that a teacher with a stay at home spouse and 2 kids would qualify for a Habitat House. That is wrong. And my bosses wanted me to get, and pay for, a master's degree to teach beginning classes.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King Jr.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Ah, an oldie but a goodie...(27+ / 0-)

Thanks for the reminder.  Our teachers work their asses off, and deserve more than they get.

DailyKos: Saving us from "The Oligarhy of Teh Stupid", one diary at a time.

[ Parent ]

• ##### if there were any justice in this world(19+ / 0-)

teachers would make at least half of what professional athletes do.  our priorities are so blinkered.

Judging from picturebooks, apparently Heaven is a partly cloudy place. - Rilo Kiley

[ Parent ]

• ##### Well... Congresspeople Maybe(7+ / 0-)

I don't know of any school system that brings in the kind of money an NFL team does, nor do I know of any community that could afford it.  :)

But teachers do as much (or more) good than anybody who goes to congress does, so I think that would be pretty fair.

Too Folk For You

[ Parent ]

• ##### Money the NFL brings in?(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Cedwyn, sboucher

Is that before or after figuring in the taxpayer subsidies for their stadia?

• ##### Both n/t(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Cedwyn, sboucher

Too Folk For You

[ Parent ]

• ##### How many owners reside(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

in the cities where they get taxpayer subsidies?  Very few.  The sucking sound you hear is money leaving the community and entering the pockets of millionaire/billionaire owners.

• ##### I'm Not Sure What You're Point Is(0+ / 0-)

We do not disagree.

Are you claiming that the typical school district could/should pay each teacher 1.1 million per year, which is the average player salary in the NFL?

Too Folk For You

[ Parent ]

• ##### No, of course not(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
TooFolkGR

I think the example was given more in jest and to illustrate disparity in wages.

Glad we don't disagree.

My point is that the argument is often given that professional sports are a boon to a community financially, when they are more like Wall St.--subsidized by the taxpayers and concentrators of wealth.  So I was trying to lay that to rest.  And it appears I misunderstood your point.

• ##### Teachers in Japan make about what an(0+ / 0-)

engineer makes in salary. Ours, not so much.

BTW: Those NFL salary reports are very misleading-that what the big flap was/is about among the players. NO play little, or NO pay. :-))

America, where a rising tide lifts all boats! Unless you don't have a boat...uh...then it lifts all who can swim! Er, uh...um...and if you can't swim...???
• ##### You do know that the NFL not only sucks on(0+ / 0-)

the TAX PAYER TIT IN EVERY STATE, they are considered to be tax exempt non profit organizations!!!

Classic case of the truth about "FREE ENTERPRISE" concept. These "entrepreneurs" make us pay twice for their profits, as usual

"You've got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all." -- "The Man Who Was Thursday"

• ##### Let's not attack professional athletes here. (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
esquimaux, sboucher

The reason athletes are paid what they are is due to their very strong union. If teacher's unions and unions in general were as strong as the MLBPA then teachers wouldn't have to get second jobs. Guys like Curt Wood are labor heros and siding against them isn't siding for teachers it's siding with corporate interests and billionaire owners and only serves to demonize unions further.

The Great Depression: Now In Color!

[ Parent ]

• ##### There's marketing to it too(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

The money in sports comes from separating lots of people from it, one ticket & one souvenir at a time.  I think a lot of that comes from selling sports as a form of pseudo-community to disaffected people.  The funny part is that schools are part of what makes a real community, but good luck convincing people of that...

Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

[ Parent ]

• ##### Since high schools are the farm teams(0+ / 0-)

of professional athletics, and since local high school football/basketball used to be "the only game in town," it's ironic that corporations have profited so highly from the kind of marketing -- tickets, tshirts, community solidarity -- that began with school athletics. They should have been paying a royalty to all the public school districts that nurtured the "school spirit" that became professional sports fandom.

"We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. But we can't have both." - Justice Louis Brandeis

• ##### Nice connection, (0+ / 0-)

most people miss this part of the equation.

• ##### they Do in Norway ....(0+ / 0-)

But then again, they have the best education system in the world. When ask how they did it , they replied,

"We do exactly opposite of what the Americans do "

" It is far worse that a conspiracy in America... It is a Tradition ....."

[ Parent ]

• ##### Not blinkered, stupid.(0+ / 0-)

It is not so much about how much teachers are paid, rather how much respect is accorded to the for reaching into their souls and finding the drive to come back year-after- to try to build a better nation through children--including our own for those who forget that we too are parents.

The young man in the video just earned an honors "A" with his presentation. If you people are as intelligent as he is-throw out your political governor and elect him right now! You know, recall the other guy, and write-in this guy.

• ##### I think you hit(33+ / 0-)

on an important issue here.  There's clearly a problem when all of us educators are driving around in Bently's, eating lobster every night, are vacationing in tropical islands, and live in 5000 square foot mansions with servants.  Something must be done to put educators in their place!  Think of the children!

• ##### I should add that(14+ / 0-)

for most of us educators, those tropical islands are privately owned by us.  Those of us at the university and highschool level have been living high on the hog fer sure.

• ##### 5000 Sq Ft?(14+ / 0-)

Your State clearly lacks ambition :)

I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
but I fear we will remain Democrats.

[ Parent ]

• ##### We're oppressed(7+ / 0-)

here in Texas.  Clearly we should have 10,000 sq feet homes with proper servant homes like oir northern counterparts.  Any way, I could expand but I have to get back to destroying the financial markets by trading junk derivatives during my office hours.  Champaign and chocolate covered strawberries for lunch!

• ##### Our coach with 5 children could qualify for (5+ / 0-)

welfare by is incomel level/family size formula.

• ##### I for one am sick of highly paid teachers(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mungley, Philoguy, Eikyu Saha, sboucher

because they are all in other countries.

Warning: Erwin Schroedinger will kill you like a cat in a box. Maybe.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Why do wingers hate teachers so much?(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
jayden, sboucher

Probably because they were lousy students, like Bush Jr., Palin, Cheney and Bachmann who were pissed off at having to go to class 'n stuff. It's all just revenge for that terrible feeling of refudiation.

I never liked you and I always will.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Why?(0+ / 0-)

An educated public is the enemy of tyrants.

"The French have no word for entrepreneur!" G. W. Bush

[ Parent ]

• ##### Ugh, this is just dumb(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
bobtmn, Cream Puff

I'm all for good teacher salaries, but honestly, these calculations are just dumb.

If we're paying teachers for the hours they work, you don't get to multiply that by the number of students they are teaching. That's like paying me \$x/hour to build a website, but since that website gets served to something like 8,000 people per day, I should be making a bazillion dollars. It's just dumb. And making dumb arguments doesn't help anything.

Try looking at things another way.

[ Parent ]

• ##### You obviously don't(11+ / 0-)

understand pricing.

If I develop a web ad, and that ad gets 8mil hits, you better believe my next ad will cost the client CONSIDERABLY more.

Same if I build a website that gets them more business - I certainly WILL get paid more if I get them more sales.

As for the bazillion dollars - tell that to Arianna Huffington. Or Mark Zuckerberg.

You don't understand babysitting either - because most babysitters (and day care) charge PER CHILD.

Teachers get paid regardless of how many kids are in their class. And I can tell you from experience - if there are more kids, the work increase EXPONENTIALLY.

• ##### Not to mention most teachers have far more than 30(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mungley, mommyof3, jayden, sboucher

students per day. That's one or  one and a quarter classes in some districts.

• ##### But it doesn't change the calculations(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mommyof3, sboucher

If you assume the classes rotate and each teacher has 30 students in each class, then at the end of the day they're still paid \$1.42 per kid per hour, and that's still a bargain.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

[ Parent ]

• ##### Yes, and if If you look at it from managment's (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Eikyu Saha, sboucher

side.  If I take that teacher (salary fixed) room (fixed cost) etc, and distribute those costs over 40 students rather than 20, I just halved my cost per unit.  Let's pack in 50 or 60!!!  Why I should get a huge bonus since i saved all that money.

• ##### Heh, the work doesn't increase exponentially(0+ / 0-)

Teaching two kids is not more than twice as hard as teaching one kid.

And if you do away with an hourly rate and replace it with a rate per child, the actual amount made by teachers will be relatively unchanged. The market drives the prices being paid to teachers. If teachers really earned this much, I'd want to be a teacher. Everyone would want to be a teacher, and collectively, we would bid down the wage rate.

Try looking at things another way.

[ Parent ]

• ##### You know they do take roll every morning(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Eikyu Saha, jayden, Ray Blake, sboucher

Here in CA, the state pays the district based on students per day. If half the school's kids call in sick one day, the state only pays for the kids that showed up for that day.

"Beuller?... Beuller?... anyone?... Beuller?" - they do that for accounting purposes.

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."- Arthur Carlson

[ Parent ]

• ##### and for liability(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Eikyu Saha, sboucher

I teach in a private school, so we're not concerned about getting money from the state, but we still have to take roll.  If no one takes attendance and the kid is off joy-riding and gets an accident, we have some liability (at least enough to go through the problems of a lawsuit).  If we have taken roll, realize the child is missing and contact the parent, we're no longer liable.  It's now the parent's problem.

• ##### You obviously don't have kids ...(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
vacantlook, Eikyu Saha, jayden, sboucher

Anyone paying for day care or babysitting knows that it is price per hour/day/week per kid.

You might get a better deal for multiple kids with some babysitters, but that is largely because of the power imbalance a 15-year-old and an adult.

Conservation! Because the cheapest energy is the energy you don't use.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Maybe those 15yos should unionize (nt)(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Eikyu Saha, sboucher

Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

[ Parent ]

• ##### No, it's because a baby sitter(0+ / 0-)

would rather babysit two kids for a higher wage/time rather than one kid for a lower wage/time. So babysitters bid down the wage rate from 2x...

Try looking at things another way.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Interesting logic...(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

If everyone paid \$80 for every pair of Nike shoes they bought, and if Nike sold a shitload of shoes, then Nike would make, like, a bazillion dollars.  Ha! How dumb would that be?

Oh, I forgot, the argument was supposed to be about employEEs, not capitalist employERs.  My bad.

• ##### But Nike isn't one person(0+ / 0-)

Nike is a company with millions of owners who are basically making the market rate on their investments. If they weren't, Nike's money would dry up as investors invest elsewhere.

Having millions of teachers each make a bazillion dollars is way different than having a company, which is split between millions of owners making a bazillion dollars.

Try looking at things another way.

[ Parent ]

• ##### I understand that Nike manufactures their shoes(0+ / 0-)

"overseas" right,  and we are privileged to still be charged as if they are made here!!

"Smart" of them, stupid of us. Did you feel a big thump as you walked out the door? That should have been your change, instead it now is the CEO's BONUS.

:-)

Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.
• ##### No Worries, Dems' Great Motivator Leads:(44+ / 0-)

We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

• ##### Oh no you didn't! (ha, ha)(19+ / 0-)

Pure genious!

• ##### Goose, you should put(10+ / 0-)

together a photo diary!  You could model it on "Where's Waldo?"

• ##### What's wrong(5+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mmacdDE, vacantlook, Philoguy, elwior, sboucher

with defending the middle class employees of the nation?

Obama is in Cleveland right now, defending and promoting
"small" businesses.  He talks about businesses and business leaders all the time.  Why would it be wrong to ask him to talk about middle class wage earners once in a while?

Our stagnating economy with its continued high levels of unemployment are a manifestation of the WH failure to focus on middle class wage earners in economic recovery.  While the wealthy, banks and Wall Street have recovered nicely, the rest of the economy is still in recession.

It's long past time we prodded him into focusing on the middle class. His advisors remain blissfully ignorant of the downside of high unemployment, rising cost of living and the dangers of tampering with SS.  We won't have recovery and he sure won't get re-elected unless things improve.

• ##### Reply(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
vacantlook, Philoguy

to comment below.  Sorry.

• ##### I knew it wouldn't take long...(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:

For someone here to go into "Firedog Lake" mode. Can't help but do that "Bash Barrack" thing? Do it at Townhall.com or somesuch location. I'm sure you'll find a bunch of Gov. Walker's die-hard supporters who will be glad to agree with you.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."--George Santayana

[ Parent ]

• ##### it's entirely reasonable(5+ / 0-)

to expect a Democratic president to speak up on this most fundamental Democratic issue. Asking him to do so is not equivalent to supporting Scott Walker.

• ##### I get a little bothered(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Cream Puff, Uberbah

when I read a quote like (talking in Cleveland today about community colleges working with local businesses), ""What it means is that if you go through this program, there will be a job at the end of the day because the employers helped design the curriculum."

That can be looked at several ways, not all of them positive.

Jennifer Brunner for Governor of Ohio 2014

[ Parent ]

• ##### One of the positive ways to look at it(0+ / 0-)

In OH we have a problem with getting people trained and then not being able to find jobs for them. Sometimes it's because everybody moves into a job area that is "hot" (like STNAs) and then by the time the training is over, so is the "hotness". Too many training in that area for that job.

One of the things that's been working well is on-the-job training (OJT). With that, the jobs program works with an employer who hires someone for an actual long-term existing or new job, the jobs program (WIA etc.) pays a certain amount of their training costs as they get up to speed, and everybody's happy. The employer gets some money for doing something they would probably have to do anyway, the worker has a job that he/she is likely to keep, and the training dollars result in actual employment rather than a prospective (but not assured) job. BTW, the OJT program usually tries to make sure that the pay rate for these jobs is higher than the average pay rate in the area, so no minimum wage type jobs generally. I've seen OJT contracts for jobs making \$80,000/year or even more (this is a good thing)

This is a little different than CC working with employers, but they have been trying to do this for decades. While I don't particularly like the idea of the whole higher education system being considered simply vocational education, the role of community colleges has always been more vocational than the 4-year colleges, and it's very common for them to develop training programs for businesses. And they want their graduates to find jobs, so I'm not sure what the downside is here.

FYI

Conservation! Because the cheapest energy is the energy you don't use.

[ Parent ]

• ##### "A noun, a verb, and FDL"(0+ / 0-)

Surprised it took so long for the apologists to show up.

"Pragmatists don't DO things! They explain to you how things CANNOT be done." - AndyS In Colorado

[ Parent ]

• ##### Maybe he can get Bill Clinton(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Uberbah, tgrshark13

to do a press conference for him.   Bill can actually show empathy for people other than the investor and business owner class.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. --John F. Kennedy

[ Parent ]

• ##### To be sick of overpaid teachers, first you gotta(67+ / 0-)

find overpaid teachers. I've never yet seen one in the public system.  I've seen a lot of teachers with second jobs or who paint houses all summer just to keep going.

• ##### Just awesome. Thanks for posting.(16+ / 0-)

I shall send it out on twitter too.  Should be enjoyed by many.

• ##### I'm a public school employee(49+ / 0-)

(special ed) and one of my colleagues sent this out today. Bravo to whoever put it together.

Tens of thousands of teaching jobs are on the chopping block here in Texas, and caps on class sizes will be a thing of the past. We have already been told to expect an absolutely minimal budget for materials and supplies next year. Crucial support staff have already been cut, so that means more work for teachers. Yet I still hear so much whining about how "throwing more money at schools won't help", even though Texas spending per pupil is WAY below the national average, and our outcomes are simply horrible. Thanks, Rick Perry! Who the hell voted for this moron? I'm sure brain-dead Republicans with schoolchildren will whine loudly about decreased quality of education, but never, ever make the connection that that was exactly what they voted for.

• ##### In the video above(33+ / 0-)

it notes that the states without teachers unions rank dead last in test scores. I'm sorry to say I live in #48, Georgia.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### It's simple, really(25+ / 0-)

the less educated you are, the more likely you are to vote republican.  It explains why republicans are so hostile to funding education.

explain how letting gays marry will directly affect your own heterosexual relationship?

[ Parent ]

• ##### it simply wouldn't do(7+ / 0-)

to have a well educated and critically thinking populace, now...

Judging from picturebooks, apparently Heaven is a partly cloudy place. - Rilo Kiley

[ Parent ]

• ##### The less educated you are...(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
vacantlook, Leap Year, sboucher

... the less likely you are to vote. Repubs like that too.

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."- Arthur Carlson

[ Parent ]

• ##### Especially since voting day...(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
bobinson, sboucher

...is not a guaranteed nation-wide holiday.  It's hard to go stand in line for several hours to vote if one's livelihood is dependant on having to work that day.  If nearly the whole country can pause to participate in the pagan holiday claimed by Christians of Christmas, then we should be able to pause equally in order to allow our citizens to do their greatest civic duty.

• ##### Register that 33%(11+ / 0-)

If Democrats in Texas can get themselves moving, Texas will be a blue state quite soon. There should be enough white Democratic party votes to go with African American and Latino Democratic votes to start winning some races. 33% Latino share of the population needs to get registered to vote ASAP. Considering the rhetoric coming out by your average Republican about Latinos, Lation vote should go 80-20 Democrat.

• ##### If only we can get people to vote(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Leap Year, I love OCD, sboucher

That was the problem in the last election. Our voters just didn't turn out to vote. Now we are stuck with Rick Perry and a Republican supermajority in the Texas Legislature.

Good thing we've still got politics in Texas -- finest form of free entertainment ever invented.- Molly Ivins

[ Parent ]

• ##### And only if they're able to vote(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Leap Year, sboucher

Republicans don't do all this vote suppression just for laughs.

"...the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die." RIP Senator. We miss you.

[ Parent ]

• ##### I think a lot of people who voted for him(7+ / 0-)

are like my sister (who homeschools her children)...she voted for him because she thinks he's "hot." Personally, I don't get it.

"Truth never damages a cause that is just."~~~Mohandas K. Gandhi -9.38/-6.26

[ Parent ]

• ##### The politics of personal destruction(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mmacdDE, vacantlook, Leap Year, sboucher

is balanced by the politics of personal adulation.  Some people get to feel important by associating themselves with a person who's good looking and successful.

The conservative mind relies mainly on what is plain to see.

[ Parent ]

• ##### And rich(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
hannah, Leap Year, sboucher

and who wins awards. Of all kinds.

I think if Al Gore had won his Nobel Prize or even his Oscar before 2000, there wouldn't have been any need for a recount.

That Oscar, or Grammy, or whatever, would have made him 'cool'. And 'cool' wins. Hands down.

• ##### Rich.....(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

that is why the wingers hate taxes so much.......they can't stand the idea of having to share thier wealth with "those people" as soon as they win the lottery....or that taxidermy shop they have been thinking of opening becomes the next walmart and makes them billionaires.

• ##### "Throwing money."(19+ / 0-)

Here's what happens when money is thrown: people pick it up and spend it.

Schools spend "thrown money" on contracts for construction workers, electricians, technicians, new desks and lockers, getting the piano tuned in the band room and the drill press motor repaired in the shop room. The chemistry room needs supplies, the art room needs supplies, the biology room, the auditorium, the football stadium. Private companies supply these specialty items, and they are not cheap. The money is also spent on teachers and staff, on custodians and lunch servers, school bus drivers, food service companies, bookeepers, accountants and secretaries.

Public schools do not make a profit. Most of them barely break even at the end of the year. Every tax dollar spent on a school goes into the pocket of another worker who, unlike the Club for Growth assholes, is going to spend it too. They are going to spend it on groceries, on appliances, on car repairs and car loans and Christmas presents.  They are going to use it to pay thier mortgages. It is money that goes right back into circulation.

When people make a living wage it costs the taxpayer at lot less at the end of the day.

"YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

[ Parent ]

• ##### This is all about dismantling the(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
bobinson, Leap Year, drmah, sboucher

Department of Education. The tea baggers think it is unecessary, and public schools should be a thing of the past. They only want their kids educated, and the hell with everyone else.

• ##### those Teabaggers(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Leap Year, sboucher

already made use of the public schools for themselves and their children. NOW it's time for everyone to pay to educate their own (after they got theirs).

At least they're consistent.

• ##### Lisa, what I think is, anyone who is(0+ / 0-)

educated, or taught how to think critically, is a threat to these folks. They will not march in lockstep with the leaders if they have an education and they might question the power that controls them.

• ##### Those teabaggers think...(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

...that the only education one needs it to be told repetitiously that one must be conservative Christian or else be tortured by God after they die.

• ##### God wants me to be rich(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
vacantlook, sboucher

the TeeVee evangelist guy told me so.  All I have to do is send him my money and I'll soon be filthy rich just like him......just so long as I don't make the mistake of helping the poor or downtrodden..........and you're going to burn in librul hellfire.

• ##### what they voted for was progawddd guns + anti gay(0+ / 0-)

Obama was 100%+++++++++++++ though he backtracked and sort of appologized due to people screaching

during the primaries he said politicans come to town (meant repubs) talking about gawdddd gayzzzzz and gunzzzzzz that drives voters to vote against their own economic self interest

By Gawdddddd the repubs luvs my gunzz and hate those damn gayzzzz halaluljah pull the voting lever

• ##### I'm sick of over paid teachers. (32+ / 0-)

These greedy bastards that spend years in college so that they can get low paying jobs working 12+ hours a day need to go! I mean, F.F.S, why should we pay the people who are literally in charge of shaping the minds of our next generation anything at all?

• ##### Teachers don't(53+ / 0-)

get vacations. They get unpaid seasonal layoffs. They don't get paid holidays, either.  It took me 30 years to get to that "national average" of \$50,000. Of course a management lawyer told me that I should be grateful that I get an opportunity to work at something else during the summer. My gratitude has its limits.

• ##### Of course, working at "something else"(33+ / 0-)

is only possible when you're not in continuing ed classes to keep your license (classes for which you are more likely than not to have to pay for out of your own pocket).  Instead of earning extra money, you are spending it and your time in order to keep doing a job that pays moderately well for the 6.5 hours you spend in the classroom, but not for the hours you spend at night and on weekends in order to make those 6.5 hours actually work.

It always used to pi\$\$ me off when people said I had 3 months "vacation."  Our school year hasn't been Labor Day to Memorial Day since I was in school (many, MANY years ago!).  When the week or more before and after the school year are taken into account, we were very lucky to get two months out of school.  In that time, we  had to take additional classes and sometimes attend conferences out of town (or out of state) at our own expense.

I was lucky.  I don't have a family to consider.  Devoting that kind of time to my profession wasn't quite the hardship that it is for those who have a spouse with a normal job and/or children who expect to have some quality time with Mom (or Dad) during the summer.

-7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

[ Parent ]

• ##### It takes real dedication(15+ / 0-)

to be a teacher under the best of circumstances. Thank you, we need more like you.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Thanks. I wish(6+ / 0-)

the people around here thought so.  I'm in a state of involuntary semi-retirement.  It's a long story, but I'm a little too "old school" for some administrators.  Seems I'm more interested in kids than paperwork.  :-)

-7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

[ Parent ]

• ##### I left. (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
luckylizard, sboucher

My contract was not renewed because I was too committed to educating kids and not committed enough to supporting the principal in his role as head football coach.

I'm in graduate school to change professions, along with subbing a bit.

I know how you feel.

• ##### Too old for grad school.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, cusoon

Even if I weren't, I couldn't stand all the busy work involved in the system.  I'm doing some grant writing and volunteering, but I need to find some dumb little job to supplement my income until next January.  That's the magic 62, when I can get early SS.  I know I'll take a hit on the benefit, but at this point I'm not sure I'll live to get the full benefit anyway.  Might as well go for it.  :-)

-7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

[ Parent ]

• ##### Professional development(13+ / 0-)

Teachers devote a great deal of their own time to going to professional development in order to become better teachers, and often at their own expense. Teachers do this on Saturdays, after school, at night, and yes, in the summer.

Every summer for four years, I spent a week of my summer vacation, I mean, unpaid leave, attending a wonderful science program for teachers, because I wanted to learn how to do field studies with my students in earth systems science. Another summer, it was a week of water studies with the author of the Rivers curriculum. It was time well spent, but it was on my own time.

Good thing we've still got politics in Texas -- finest form of free entertainment ever invented.- Molly Ivins

[ Parent ]

• ##### Develpment claases are paid out the the teacher's(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
capelza, sboucher

own pocket, too.

• ##### A friend shared this today, and I reshared(33+ / 0-)

I ended up getting into an argument with an anti-government nut. I, and others,  offered facts to dispute his arguments which consisted of calling us fat, lazy whiners.  The friend who originally posted eventually exposed him as an unemployed man living with his mother, being supported by her government pension.  Typical right wing hypocrite.

• ##### Just look at the Baggers (18+ / 0-)

on Social Security and Medicare and riding in their taxpayer funded Hover Round while pointing their fingers at poor people, children, and public employees saying that their leaches on the government teat.

There already is class warfare in this country. Unfortunately, the rich are winning. Sue, West Allis, Wis.

[ Parent ]

• ##### This "Bagger" wishes(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
irate

people would stop making broad generalizations about what people of certain ages think and do, and stop with the us v. them thought processes. Your comment is unproductive and divisive; think before you pursue this meme in the future.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Think Puddy meant teaBaggers...not those of us who(12+ / 0-)

are improving with age, like the finest wines :)

"Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert,Psychiatrist, at the end of Nuremberg trials.

[ Parent ]

• ##### AHA! You admit you're a 'Bagger'!!!11(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Rogneid, Puddytat, sboucher

I always thought you were screwed up, sb.

Sooooooo, what definition of bagger did you think was being flung at you?  I've never heard of anything other than the morans who think Sarah's teh Bomb and the Brits at Boston Harbor were dirty fucking Liberal hippies.  :oP

The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it." ~ Hillbilly Dem's 78-yo Dad

[ Parent ]

• ##### JVolvo, I'm touched you've thought of me.(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
JVolvo

In the wee hours of the morning, I saw "Baggers" but read "Boomers." And yes, I admit to being a Boomer, though I'm really a Jones, being born in 1957.

Talk about wanting to take a comment back! :D

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Wow, that's pretty...um...off :o)(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

Good to see you are a proud Boomer, though.

Oops, do you think I just called you a Booger?

Booger Booger Booger

The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it." ~ Hillbilly Dem's 78-yo Dad

[ Parent ]

• ##### When you're being shat on it's good(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

to take note and realize that behavior is not well intended.
Some people share and care and some people extract, extort, export and exterminate.  The ex people are different.  If they are not a cohesive group, it's probably because their self-awareness is dim.  They exploit their own kind as a terrier runs down a vole.  They can't help it.

The conservative mind relies mainly on what is plain to see.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Sorry, polling says people don't understand(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
drmah, Puddytat, I love OCD, sboucher

that SS and Medicare comes from the Govt and I bet most of them are teabaggers.

• ##### My poor sleepy mind(0+ / 0-)

switched "Baggers" and "Boomers" hence my reply. I'm not a bagger in any way, except at the grocery.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### I'm not dissing retirees(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Lisa, sboucher

I am a retiree - and have been for many years now.

What I am dissing is the hypocracy of Tea Baggers who use taxpayer dollars while deriding the poor and others who need social programs for survival.  I'm tired of them bashing the poor and unemployed as "leaches" and "lazy" and "bums" among other things.

It's not a generational divide.  It's about supporting each other and not allowing the monied interests to buy us and divide us.

There already is class warfare in this country. Unfortunately, the rich are winning. Sue, West Allis, Wis.

[ Parent ]

• ##### My sincerest apologies(0+ / 0-)

for jumping on you. It was very late, and when I read your comment, somehow I read "Boomers" instead of "Baggers." As soon as 417 caught me, I was mortified. I am not a bagger! I agree with you completely.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### But is he fat? n/t(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
vets74

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### It is not teachers that tick me off(25+ / 0-)

What to me is the cause of much of the pain that we are going through is the payoff to politicians.

The money that is funnelled to politicians by corporations is nothing but pure payoffs -- all is does it kill the country - kill the jobs - kill the employees.

Imagine a USA with no political payoff to politicians ....

That is the America of my dreams....

"Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

• ##### Amen to that.(4+ / 0-)

"YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

[ Parent ]

• ##### It takes two to tango--(0+ / 0-)

for every payoff there's an extortionist politician.  The reason we don't notice is because they're being really clever.  Only rarely are favors bought.  Most often the legislators promise to lay-off in exchange for guaranteed money and votes to continue in their jobs.  They have developed failure to a high art.

Give us your votes and we'll "protect" your interests by not being as draconian as we might be!

That's actually a bi-partisan shtick.  How many Republican outrages prompt an ask from Democrats for another penny in the pot?

Our political class has discovered that money given freely for a hopeless cause cannot be considered fraud.

The conservative mind relies mainly on what is plain to see.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Indeed, I'm absolutely disgusted(10+ / 0-)

seeing all my kids teachers tooling around town in their BMW's, and living in their gated communities with concrete ponds in every back yard, enjoying their months long vacations in the Caribbean while everyone else is working like dogs. Who among us hasn't felt their laughing eyes on us as they drive by with the top down and the wind blowing in their hair, the sun reflecting of their Gucci sunglasses, and their golden tans glistening in the sun?

Get real people, teachers don't go into this racket for the money if they did then perhaps they aren't smart enough to be teaching our children in the first place. This is about busting unions and more profits for corporate America. This is about the dumbing down of America. This is about the future.

I can't think of even a handful of adults that could learn in a classroom of 60 students let alone young, immature, children. This is doomed to fail and they KNOW it. We are talking about college style auditorium theater seating either, we are talking about classrooms with 60 or more people in them. Pure insanity. Parents would be better off home schooling their children which is what the governor wants which makes things even worse. How many parents are capable of teaching their children the life skills and academic knowledge required to be successful when they themselves have struggled their whole lives with a subpar education?

Looks like the "nerd" is taking it out on everyone in the state now for being picked on as a kid. Recall Snyder.

There are no profits in ensuring human rights so don't expect your government to do so.

• ##### Small typo.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Dirtandiron, sboucher

"We are talking about college style auditorium theater seating either,"

Should read "We aren't talking about college style auditorium theater seating either,"

There are no profits in ensuring human rights so don't expect your government to do so.

[ Parent ]

• ##### sboucher: did you post this a few months back?(7+ / 0-)

If not, then one of our fellow Kossacks did. S/he might've even been the person who created it in the first place.

And that would be awesome, because it would mean that the thing's gone somewhat viral.

I'll see if I can dredge up the original diary...

Regards,
Corporate Dog

-----
We didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -- Eugene Robinson

• ##### Eureka!(7+ / 0-)

http://www.dailykos.com/...

Regards,
Corporate Dog

-----
We didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -- Eugene Robinson

[ Parent ]

• ##### In fact, speaking to its viralness...(5+ / 0-)

I just started to read it to my wife, who's a teacher, and not into politics AT ALL.

She cut me off and told me, "Yeah. Kerry just posted the same thing on her Facebook page."

Kerry is one of her co-workers, who ALSO isn't into politics.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

-----
We didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -- Eugene Robinson

[ Parent ]

• ##### Viral it is.(0+ / 0-)

I received it from a teacher (friend from sleepaway camp) and it was posted by a teacher friend of hers. I hadn't read it before, so thought it was original to her friend. Who ever wrote the original(s), good work and thanks!

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### It's been around for a while(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

I first saw it several years ago, but it's still good!

Good thing we've still got politics in Texas -- finest form of free entertainment ever invented.- Molly Ivins

[ Parent ]

• ##### OK. I need to stop talking to myself.(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
DrFood, sboucher, m00finsan

Now that I'm rereading what you posted, I can see it's a different author with the same idea.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

-----
We didn't elect Obama to be an expedient president. We elected him to be a great one. -- Eugene Robinson

[ Parent ]

• ##### Why the snark tag?(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
briefer, sboucher

It sounds like a reasonable proposal to me.

• ##### Ewwww...Double Snark!(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

[ Parent ]

• ##### Another way to look at it(12+ / 0-)

You are entering a profession where you need a Master's Degree and continued education for licensure. You can choose between being a CPA, a Nurse Practitioner, a teacher. The top salary for the first job is six figures, the second around 90. The top salary you can ever expect in teaching is 50s in the south, 60s in the north. Will we attract the best folks to teaching with that situation?

That said, options to increase teacher leadership responsibilities and salaries at the top (leading summer inservices) are interesting.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

• ##### Median salary maybe not top,(3+ / 0-)

My wife retired  4 years ago and her top salary  with MS plus 90 hrs was around 82,000, her district probably ranked in the middle in Illinois, with the deal they gave her for "early retirement" (55) she made around 102,000 her last school year. Not complaining but just stating a fact.

"Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy" Hermann Goering (NRSC?)

[ Parent ]

• ##### That's true(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Sychotic1, irate, sboucher

And I bet she was "at the top of her game".  Don't count the retirement incentive. That isn't part of the equation.

Now compare that to a CPA with a Masters (or just courses to pass the exam) at the top of his game at the end of his career.

When an undergraduate choses a career, we want them to see teaching as the best option.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Pension and benefits(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

at least until recently, would close that gap some.  But you're right - attracting and retaining good teachers is already difficult. These attacks won't help.

• ##### CPAs and nurses(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

receive benefits, too. In the private sector, they often receive matching contributions to their 401(k)s as well as medical and dental.

I'm wondering where this idea that only teachers have pensions got started?

• ##### The pay is better here in CA(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

Of course, the housing is also more expensive.

• ##### Not funny!(0+ / 0-)

This IMHO is exactly what many of those behind the destroy the unions want with one major exception, teachers would be paid the minimum wage with the administrators and owners sucking up the excess, exactly what has happened in the "private sector" since Reagan was president.

"Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy" Hermann Goering (NRSC?)

• ##### oh wait... except for the fact that you(0+ / 0-)

have how many other supporting personnel who also have a hand in 'babysitting' these children throughout the day?

i don't know, let's just throw out 15?  20?  so then the shared effort is looking more like \$277.77 per day / (30 students / 15 supporting personnel) = \$138.89 / 6.5 = \$21.36!
wow - when you introduce another variable the numbers suddenly change dramatically.

should we divide the number of children by their average age to get a more accurate picture of the true babysitting efforts?  or does babysitting increase with age?

John McCain - 894/899 of his graduating class at Annapolis.

• ##### How many other supporting personnel?(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
arch, drmah, miss SPED, on second thought

Usually the answer is effectively 0. The administration sometimes should be counted as a negative.

• ##### That support staff serves ALL teahcers(0+ / 0-)

not just one.  For example, there are roughly 80 teachers at my school.  There are only 5 administrators, 4 counselors, and 2 support staff (i.e., not an administrator's secretary but actually working with students).  That means there's only ONE person helping out every 7-8 teachers.

• ##### Sick of Stupid Non-Teachers Too?(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Dirtandiron

I work and play with many people who at times show their ignorance just as does the question that headlines the above post.

We need intelligent people to educate children, ours and others.  We also need intelligent voters, those who inform themselves of issues and consequences of their votes.   We do not people who hear something catchy or repetitive and assume it is his/her best interest – we call these GOP talking points.

• ##### I would be completely ok paying teachers 280k.(5+ / 0-)

With a few other tweaks, as well.

There are few, if any, things more valuable than a good teacher.

I'm gonna go eat a steak. And fuck my wife. And pray to GOD - hatemailapalooza, 052210

• ##### Vacations(11+ / 0-)

Statements such as that teachers don't work many hours and have lots of vacation should never be tolerated.

It's not vacation if it isn't paid.

A teacher can never take vacation except when everyone else does.

No responsible teacher can get done all that is needed in the limited hours of the normal working day. Folks who think that 5 classroom hours is not a full day a. have clearly never been in a classroom which they took seriously and b. have no idea how much time outside of class is necessary to adequately prepare 5 classroom hours.

By and large, the idea that teaching is an easy job comes from all those who failed to apply themselves as students projecting their own lack of effor on those who tried to teach them. Of course, these folks are part of why teaching is anything but easy.

• ##### What I have seen(6+ / 0-)

Are overpaid administrators, particularly superintendents who are double dipping from multiple school systems.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...

All kidding aside - it's the f'ing oligarchy, stupid.

• ##### Overpaid? Perhaps.(0+ / 0-)

But I don't think I'd call what they're doing "double-dipping".  They retire from one district after earning their pension, then while collecting that pension, go to do similar work at a different district (out of state).

I'm not sure I understand why this is a problem?  You can argue perhaps that their pensions are too generous, but why should they be denied the opportunity to work somewhere else?

• ##### The pension levels are set(0+ / 0-)

(from public funds remember) with the expectation that they won't work and that this is their source of income.  They're BARRED from working and collecting pension simultaneously in the same state.

But because we have a messed up federal/state hybrid system, they find a loophole that requires the taxpayers to fun their pension at the same level as if they lived in state and never worked again.

All kidding aside - it's the f'ing oligarchy, stupid.

[ Parent ]

• ##### I'm not even sure I agree with the(0+ / 0-)

ban on them working in the same state...I mean, if a district needs a superintendent, why should the amount of money a candidate earned in the past or how they earned it have any bearing on the hiring decision?  It's not costing the taxpayers anything "extra"...they have to hire someone. In fact, it might be less expensive to hire someone who already retired, because they likely wouldn't be serving long enough in the new role to qualify for pension benefits again.

• ##### I live in Oklahoma(8+ / 0-)

I know lots of teachers, many of whom follow the "common philosophy" of voting around here.

I shared this on my Facebook to let them know that us Nasty Liberals are right there, in their corner!

I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
but I fear we will remain Democrats.

• ##### Oklahoman ehhh?(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
twigg, sboucher

If you are caught there with a comment that you sympathize with NASTY LIBERALS, you may be thrown in a dungeon or have the dogs sicced on you!!

• ##### I live in a very comfortable(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mconvente, sboucher

dungeon, tyvm!

I can get away with it, because, apparently, I have a cute accent :)

I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
but I fear we will remain Democrats.

[ Parent ]

• ##### If they weren't liberal before, they are now, (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher
• ##### i love this kind of perspective(4+ / 0-)

...... helps to put things in context
for those who can't understand reality.

tipped & rec'd

Toleration is the greatest gift of the mind; it requires the same effort of the brain that it takes to balance oneself on a bicycle. -Helen Keller

• ##### "highly-paid teachers"(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:

Now THERE is a contradiction in terms!

"Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." - Robert G. Ingersoll

• ##### I actually reposted this myself(3+ / 0-)

yesterday on FB

"Villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot; those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged."

• ##### Yes, I'm sick of high paid teachers(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Ivan, Sychotic1, Tchrldy, Cassandra Waites

I'm certainly sick and tired of hearing about high paid teachers from conservatives.  So I guess I'm sick of high paid teachers.  Of course, since there are no high paid teachers, this means I'm sick of an abstract concept that is the brainchild of far right ideology.   And I'm sick of right wing ideology.

• ##### Well I am sick of overpaid fruit pickers!(0+ / 0-)

Sheesh, they even get to live in shacks for free! They get bused to work in the back of a 2 ton pickup! I don't get housing and transportation for MY job! Why should these lazy fruit pickers? They are already lucky they could eat the fruits that fell on the ground. I don't get free fruits at MY job! Sheesh.  I have had it with overpaid fruit pickers! And don't get me started on the night janitor.

• ##### Why are the union busters going after(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Sychotic1, drmah, Loge

teachers? Why aren't they demonizing cops and firefighters too?

"YOPP!" --Horton Hears a Who

• ##### Because they vote GOP, ask Walker. nt(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Reepicheep
• ##### Because it isn't the job(5+ / 0-)

of cops and firefighters to teach our kids to have inquiring minds. Cops and firefighters are to be obeyed in times of crisis, or threats to public order,  for the sake of public safety.

Inquiring minds are threats to corporate absolutists. That's why.

"Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

[ Parent ]

• ##### There's a not-very subtle sexist dynamic(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Reepicheep

going on there.

The funny thing is that police and firemen are much more destructive to budgets, as they can retire with full pension at age 40. People like social workers here in New York have to have worked for the state for 30 years and be over 55 to retire at all - full bennies take more.

Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

[ Parent ]

• ##### Teachers who love their work need a decent salary(4+ / 0-)

I recently worked as a consultant in a Bronx public high school with a wonderful collective work ethic. Here's a few signs of it:

The building is filled with teachers and students until 5 or 6 every day. Tutoring, clubs, and all kinds of educational activities just dont stop when the paid work day stops.

Teachers plan and assess instruction in teams, and meet not just after school but on weekends.

Teachers give out their cell phone numbers to kids and parents and are available for questions and homework help 24/7. I have never heard of a case of students abusing this practice.

I worked in the exact same neighborhood in the 1970s and none of this extra commitment was possible. Why not? Partly, it was because of the mindless bureaucracy that refused to keep the schools open after 3. Also class sizes and schools were so large that chaos was always a real possibility. But also teacher salaries were so low that teachers with families needed extra jobs just to survive. I used to drive a taxi on weekends, and sometimes I'd even do a 4-12 shift after teaching.

You can fault Mayor Bloomberg for many things but I give him credit for raising teacher salaries to a level where teachers can devote their time and energy to the work they love. He also deserves credit for pushing to break up the 2000-5000 student high schools and for killing the old bureaucracy and giving principals financial control over their own buildings.

Of course, school leadership still makes an enormous difference and the school I describe above was started by a faculty of real progressives with a clear vision. I can only hope that NYC and NYS budget cuts don't wreck schools like this one.

If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

• ##### Teachers don't get paid vacations(9+ / 0-)

People always forget that we don't get paid vacations. We are paid for a contracted number of days- usually 188 days or so. We have an option of either being paid over a 9 month period, or having the same salary divided over 12 months. Quite a few teachers can't afford to be paid less each month, and end up working summer jobs to make up the difference.

As for teaching being an easy job, a colleague of my husband, a well-paid computer systems analyst, decided that he really wanted to be a teacher. In a year he was back. My husband asked him if the low pay was the problem. Not at all- he came back to working 60 hour weeks as an analyst because teaching was just too much work!

Good thing we've still got politics in Texas -- finest form of free entertainment ever invented.- Molly Ivins

• ##### There are highly paid teachers?(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Eikyu Saha, mommyof3, sboucher

Where?

• ##### Love it. Thanks./(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter
• ##### Here's an idea(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Red State Misfit, m00finsan

Lets see how much it DOES cost.

So maybe all the public employees, police, firefighters, teachers everybody should go out for a month.

Let people hire babysitters, fight their own fires, protect their homes and persons with their second amendment rights. Get by w/o those food stamps or gov't checks.

Let's see how much cheaper it is!

• ##### On MSNBC yesterday(3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Sychotic1, drmah, sboucher

The question was should the teachers in Wisconsin be skipping out on school to protest?  Of course they had their usual talking heads from both sides, sorry I can't remember the name of the so called liberal commentator but it was someone I've seen on there many times before.
I was absolutley dumbfounded when this woman said no, of course not.  Her reasoning?  Well think of all the parents who had to get babysitters!  Seriously.  That was her main concern.   Forget the fact that the Governor has said that the possibilty of strikes and the inabilty for the state government to deal with striking police and fire unions was the main reason police and firefighters were not included in his union busting proposal.  Forget the fact that the teachers were using the only leverage they had in this fight for their rights. Inconvience of some parents is the most important factor that teachers should be considering here.
Brilliant!  Way to look at the big picture there sweetheart.  Whoever is paying this womans salary to be a voice for liberals should be ashamed of themselves.

• ##### Teachers are expected...(3+ / 0-)

...to bend over backwards, forwards and jump through hoops for the convenience of parents. The last school I taught at entirely revamped grading policies to meet the desires of parents to see lots and lots of entries on the  online grade site. In many cases, the policies were to the detriment of good teaching methodology and did not fit all subject areas. Even students saw through it and would refer to some busy work assignments as being given to them so the teachers could "feed the beast Sycamore" (the name of the online grading site the school used). Additionally, this required busy work artificially inflated student grades.

• ##### If anyone knows a babysitter...(13+ / 0-)

who is competent for \$3 per hour...please call me...I have been paying \$10 per hour for decades now + tip in cash which is the taxable equivalent of \$14 per hour...approximately...

Obama - Change I still believe in

• ##### \$10/hr would yield ...(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
dvogel001, sboucher

... a yearly wage of \$350,000+.  Now we're talkin'!  Tell Walker to stuff that in his free-market pee-party trickle-down economics plan.

• ##### Who pays only \$3 an hour (5+ / 0-)

for babysitting?  I've been out of the game for a little while but in our area a sitter will pull in \$8-\$10 from a cheapo like me.

"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

• ##### I was thinking that too.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
newfie, sboucher

I always paid a lot for babysitters because we did it so rarely that we couldn't promise regular work.

movin' to DK4 soon, gonna be a dental floss tycoon ...

[ Parent ]

• ##### Right and Mrs Newfie(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

would make me pay more if the sitter was good.  Made those infrequent dates challenging as you had to calculate what that one more drink to follow dinner would cost with another \$10 added.  Of course, I kept my mouth shut - leads to longer marriage.

"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

[ Parent ]

• ##### And if there was a babysitter charging \$3/hr(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

Would you trust this person with your baby?

Same with the teachers.

• ##### I don't think that enters into(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

the Republican equation.  They want to develop a better class of workers who aren't smart enough to object to third world wages.  They see education (and social security) as huge wastes of profit potential for corporations.  And some folks can't see what they are doing to achieve that goal.  Like a huge Walmart, the Republicans are seeking a way to put more money into education corporations (which will oblige by teaching Republican approved material) until public education is starved on the vine and people have no choice.

"You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

[ Parent ]

• ##### Heh, that IS funny! (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
DEMonrat ankle biter

What did the person say after you wrote that?

I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

• ##### It was sent by a friend on FB,(0+ / 0-)

but apparently it's been around for a while. People have seen it all over the place. I thought it was fresh. Still worth re-posting. :)

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### This rocks.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter

Thanks!

The overwhelming consensus of 2,000+ scientific experts from the IPCC& 18 US scientific assns: climate change is happening and is a growing threat to our world.

• ##### Ronald Reaganattended public schools.(4+ / 0-)

Their hero, the greatest human being who ever existed, in their eyes, got his start in life from a taxpayer-funded education.

Now, I'm not so thrilled about using him as an example of our public education system, but you get the idea . . .

Sure, I'm grumpy, but I'm also a fun, fit, classy guy.

• ##### so did Nixon, Ike, Ford, and even Dubya,(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Grumpy Young Man, sboucher

when he was living in Midland, Texas, before he went to Andover.  Eisenhower, Ford, and Carter also all went to public universities.

"This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

[ Parent ]

• ##### more right wing nonsense I saw(10+ / 0-)

on CNN.  They were interviewing a principal and the "reporter" was "outraged" about and "average" salary of "\$76,000" at that high schol in Rhode Island that made the news last year.

Well the principal corrected the idiot reporter - the MAXIMUM salary is \$76,000.

Now the "reporter" did not just ask the question.  he was literally foaming at the mouth and screaming over his "outrage" that the average was \$76,000.

• ##### I only wish. (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

That sounds like a great average salary.

I have two master's degrees and that kind of salary is ten years away from now for me.

Deus volent and I make it that long.

• ##### average, maximum, no matter to the bobblehead.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter

They got the script-point out there and the job was done. Break for commercial!

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -Patrick Henry

[ Parent ]

• ##### Did the principal ask him(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
on second thought, sboucher

how much HE made? And why HE was worth it?

• ##### I wish !!(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher
• ##### I love this!(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter

I got it from a friend of FB too...glad it's spreading.

http://www.thehamandlegsshow.com

• ##### my dad is a special ed teacher(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter

at a public jr high school in south jersey.  he'll LOVE THIS.  he wants to rip christie's fat guts out and feed them to his tourettic students.  he's been there a while, so he makes ~80 grand and loves his job.  i assume he's good at his job, he gets along with the people he works with and brings home pretty rational complaints about the elementary school teachers graduating kids who have no business going up a grade.  he seems genuinely interested that his kids learn the material, and he does a good job educating himself (he teaches history, and he's constantly reading books on the revolutionary war and civil war).

my dad and i both stand in solidarity with those in wisconsin.

Shibby.

• ##### I think my district pays close to (4+ / 0-)

\$100K for truly senior teacher.  We have an average salary of \$61K (11th in the Pittsburgh area) and in PA it's \$55K (as of 2007), the tenth highest in the country.

Come to PA all you excellent teachers.

movin' to DK4 soon, gonna be a dental floss tycoon ...

• ##### Nebraska...(4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Sychotic1, drmah, miss SPED, sboucher

Average salary here is not quite \$40,000.

• ##### and Indiana only pays \$35 dollars to substutue (5+ / 0-)

teacher for the entire day, but a substitute bus driver gets \$38 for four hours work.

• ##### Dear God....(3+ / 0-)

I sub occasionally now. Our local district pays \$135 a day for a certified teacher, less for someone with a "sub certificate" which does not require a teaching license. Although, that was cut from \$150 last year and they expect it to go down again next year. If it goes \$100 a day or lower, I probably won't bother doing it anymore.

• ##### You couldn't pay me enough to teach(3+ / 0-)

I have 2 nieces who teach. The garbage they have to put up with uneducated parents who are manipulated by their brats is appalling. What's even worse the administrators are so afraid of losing their jobs they side with the parents.   NO Way.  I suggest Scott Walker try to do the job that teachers and nurses do.

"The United States should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."Thomas Jefferson (also attributed to George Washington and John Adams)

• ##### This is Pretty Awesome. Glad You Diaried It.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter

My wife, who is a teacher, showed me this last night on her facebook page.

The GOP controlled state govt. in Tennessee is trying to do the same thing to the Tennessee Educator's Association.

For some reason, teachers have been the target of scorn for many in this country and I can't figure out why. Of course, unions have been a target for even a longer amount of time. Put the two together and you have the GOP's favorite scapegoat.

Funny, you don't see other public servants like fire fighters and police officers treated this way.

Bluewavenews.com - just the facts with none of the hysteria.

• ##### Unions donate to Dem candidates(3+ / 0-)

The whole effort to end collective bargaining is nothing more than an attempt to cut off a major source of political contributions for Dem candidates.

For similar reasons, the GOP works to privatize government agencies and cut taxes for the wealthy - to enrich their own campaign donor base.

The sooner we have this discussion in the news media, the better.  We're destroying our communities all in the name of campaign donations.

Its time to make all campaigns publicly funded with maximum expenditure limits - like the UK.

• ##### That's a great argument.(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher, DEMonrat ankle biter

I like it.

• ##### to be honest, I am sick of overpaid(0+ / 0-)

policemen and prison guards. I am not talking about the ones patrolling the inner city during the graveyard shift - those guys are generally underpaid. I am talking about the ones driving around in the suburbs where the crime of the week is the Slauson boy TP'ing the neighbor's yard again.

• ##### I live in a county in NC that is so(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

expensive that our teachers have to commute from other counties and even South Carolina to work here.  They cannot afford to live where they work.  Tell me how much teachers are overpaid in Brunswick County.

Character is who you are when no one is watching.

• ##### Am I!(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

I'm getting my first exposure to a classroom since I was last in one as a student, working as a NAEP test admin.
I've visted more than a dozen elementary and middle schools, traveling around and the first thing I notice when I pull in to park are the huge number of Bentleys and Jags filling the lot.

• ##### What I'm sick of is how education is funded(0+ / 0-)

based on property taxes instead of income taxes. Plus, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if parents had to pay a bit more for each child in school (if they meet a means test). Enough folks are losing their homes these days, and as more homes become abandoned, they have to raise the property taxes on the rest of us that are holding on by our fingernails...of one hand, to pay for education expenses.

Teachers deserve good salaries, but I shouldn't have to lose my house to pay it.

President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

• ##### Well, there needs to be some equalization(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

but I absolutely don't support any kind of means-testing. That would be a quick way to empty the public schools of the more motivated, supported students and cause them to become dumping grounds for the students with the worst support systems, which would make it easy to ignore and defund them.

As for property taxes, my main problem, living in one of the highest-property tax cities in Ohio, is inequality. At a time of massive foreclosure and hundreds of empty homes and apartment, we also have hundreds of luxury townhomes, beyond what I could ever afford, which are tax-abated. This makes me grumpier about paying these high taxes on my 100-year-old condo. I wouldn't complain about the taxes if everyone is paying.

Jennifer Brunner for Governor of Ohio 2014

[ Parent ]

• ##### Means testing parents ability to pay a small amoun(0+ / 0-)

for having X many children in the school system. Not means testing for letting the kids in... :) The problem with basing school taxes on property is that folks like me, bought low cost housing we could afford the taxes on, then they built million dollar homes a block away and skyrocketed the value and my taxes. Oh but wait, now the values fall, only they are used to the higher taxes so now they have to increase the millage so I'm paying almost the same on my house now as I was when it was worth twice as much. As motivation for creating a community it sucks. And for seniors (me in 5-8 more years) is very stressful.

President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

[ Parent ]

• ##### Wrong Arguments...(0+ / 0-)

Lets talk about pensions, early retirement and little or no out of pocket expenses for health care

I wish I could retire after 20 years on the job and collect up to 70% of my annual salary for the rest of my life...health care included

Maybe its time to re-align these benefits with that of the private sector

• ##### What a crock of shit.(7+ / 0-)

My husband's a teacher, and our contribution for family coverage is the same as the contribution that my co-workers pay for coverage under my employer's plan.

You've been reading too much redstate.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - MLK

[ Parent ]

• ##### What a Dupe!(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

It is so sad that instead of seeing the obvious point that maybe a few occupations like teaching provide a decent living and that maybe all workers should strive to get the same, workers like you get duped into wanting to bring down any segment of the working class that does better than you do.

This is CLASS WAR, and the other side is winning.

[ Parent ]

• ##### What Health Care, What Pension?(6+ / 0-)

I'm a community college teacher. I've always been a part time instructor. These days that's pretty much the best you can expect. The full time jobs are few and far between and highly competitive. Even for my little part time position, people applied from all over the country, ready to relocate for a guarantee of about \$700 a month—one class. I'm in the union. This is California. There are no health benefits, not even a group plan that I can buy into and pay the whole costs. No pension. The image that everyone working in public education is living high is so ridiculous as to be insulting.

In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

[ Parent ]

• ##### That's exactly what many colleges are(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Circle, sboucher

doing now.  At least, that's what they're doing at my husband's college.

Reduce as many teachers to part-time status as possible.

It won't be long before teaching will become one of the lowest paid and least appreciated occupations in the country.  What we'll eventually succeed in doing is chasing away anyone who's qualified and eager to teach, because they can't make a living at it.

Soon enough, we'll accomplish exactly what the rightwingnuts have been trying to do for years - destroying this country's education system.

The Great Dumbing-Down of America is in progress.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - MLK

[ Parent ]

• ##### Obama not US Citizen(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
Catte Nappe, edwardssl

I teach Critical Thinking and most of my students, liberal though they are, don't pay enough attention to what's going on in the world to have reasoned judgments about many things. I asked the other day how many thought Obama was NOT an American citizen and about two-thirds of my 30 students raised their hands. Not to pimp an old diary, but I wrote about it here .

In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

[ Parent ]

• ##### That's just(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - MLK

[ Parent ]

• ##### And btw, since you're so interested(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

in re-aligning with that of the private sector, then let's start by re-aligning salaries with the private sector.

When comparing workers of the same education level, workers in the private sector make 11% MORE than workers in the public sector.

So, I' assume you're all for 11% salary increases for teachers, right?

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - MLK

[ Parent ]

• ##### Talk abot "wrong arguments"!(6+ / 0-)

Where on earth did you find a school system where you can retire after 20 years and get 70 percent of your salary? I think a lot of people would like to know about that. And just like the rest of us, few teachers anymore pay nothing out of pocket for health care. There was a time when that was true of most workers but it's gone away for virtually all.

Jennifer Brunner for Governor of Ohio 2014

[ Parent ]

• ##### The internet is a powerful tool(0+ / 0-)

I live in NY and it boggles my mind that a public educator can retire with a pension of over 300K/year

Probably not a good idea to mention is name, but the citizens of Commack, NY are on the hook for this

http://seethroughny.net/...

• ##### Where are you getting your info?(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

I looked at your link, typed "teacher" in the Position field, and resorted by salary. The highest paid teacher in the database was making \$165K, which is a goodly amount, to be sure. On the other end of the scale, though, once we weed out the PTers and assistants, we see teachers making in the \$40s and \$50s. This sounds like a reasonable distribution of pay to me, but even if you disagree with that assessment, your boggled mind is causing you severe mathematical issues--nobody on this list is retiring with a pension anywhere close to your magical \$300K mark, and even at 100% of salary (which incredibly few, if any, people can attain), only 5 out of the 900+ teachers would get 1/2 that.
Try again.

• ##### most teachers pay out of pocket(0+ / 0-)

for that which their schools and the parents don't provide.

As a husband of one, I know where my \$ go to, and it's not just paying out bills, but paying the school's bills too.  I am so F'n sick of having my money go to her f'n classes and those little free-loading rugrats and their free-loading parents, and the free-loading admin, and those free-loading politicians.

If you have kids, everyone who does not, is helping to foot Y'alls bills.

Keep complain'n but please pay for for your own damn vouchers and do not bother the rest of us.

• ##### bad to normal(0+ / 0-)

"you wish you could retire"

cuz ur profession was able to to move into crap, that's the reason we should all follow you into hell?  With an economy based on one/third of our lives being financially productive, after 20 years ya better y'all be make'n the bucks whil ya can hustle, like a limp NFL pro, cuz that's the way it works now.

and it's not 'bout \$, it's about what those \$ buy.

• ##### I can't HR you, but I can give you this. :((0+ / 0-)

Clearly you know nothing about how teachers live in real life. My mother taught in Northport for 20 years, a Masters++. I can assure you that she gets no where near the benefits you describe, even from they heydays of the unions.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### You obviously don't teach...(0+ / 0-)

and if most teachers actually got paid for the hours spent on work both before AND after regular school hours... well, let's just say their salaries would totally go up.

Our country can survive war, disease, and poverty... what it cannot do without is justice.

[ Parent ]

• ##### especially sick of my wife, a teacher who hasn't (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
moose67, on second thought, sboucher

had a raise in six years.

Let's let the pols do the selling out, you and I keep fighting for what's right.

• ##### Hey!(1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
sboucher

I shared this on my facebook page a couple of days ago!  I thought it was great too.  You didn't get it from me did you?

Education is the process of shedding one's prejudices.

• ##### No, but that's funny.(0+ / 0-)

An old friend from camp -- who is a teacher -- sent it to me.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### Here in my county in Virginia...(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mommyof3, sboucher

...if my memory serves, teacher salaries are between 32,000 and 38,000 a year.  And they're constantly working.  Between my sister, my best friend, and my best friend's parents, it seems like they're working from the moment they wake up to the moment they fall unconscious from exhaustion at night.

Absolutely every single person who thinks that teachers get paid too much and barely work, every such person would drop dead if they had to do all the work that teachers have to.

• ##### Adding in benefits would (0+ / 0-)

make this even out...but that is ridiculous in my opinion.

Why can't people understand that it is critical to get better teachers and hold them accountable...not get worse teachers and hope they are accountable.

Why are we even arguing over teacher's benefits?  Why not discuss how to measure performance?

"Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

• ##### For the record:(2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
mommyof3, sboucher

In Michigan, starting salaries are in the \$35,000 per year range.  Most school districts have 12-15 steps on the salary scale.  So with a BA +20 hours of additional credits required, one could make about \$55-65,000 by the time one retires after about 30 years.  The rule of thumb here is your age and years of service must total 80.  With an MA +, you might make up to \$75,000 by retirement time.  If you coach a team or a club, you can make an extra \$500-2000 a year depending on the time element.  I coached the ski team for 18 years and got free skiing (from the ski resort we went to, not the school district) and  I coached the Science Olympiad Team for about \$400 a year as examples.  Upon retirement, I received a buy out of \$25,000 primarily as an incentive so they could hire a cheaper teacher. I also received a bonus of \$80 for each of the sick days (100, the maximum allowed) I never used.  I now receive a small pension of \$1400 a month - which I paid for the first few years I taught, and we later negotiated with the school district, so that they paid into my pension fund in leiu of increased salary.
So, I have 7 years of university training, reached the maximum, taught for 32 years in the public school and have a reasonable pension and best of all, years of a decent health insurance, vision and dental coverage.
But, even now that I have SS and Medicare, it's really not enough to live well, so I am still teaching at a University that pays me about \$55 an hour for about 15 hours per week.  And I still love what I do - after these 44 years. I'd be bored out of my mind if I couldn't still interact with my beloved students.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." A. Einstein

• ##### And you're exactly the kind of teacher(0+ / 0-)

we hope our children will have in school. Thank you.

It's not just a zip code, it's an attitude.

[ Parent ]

• ##### my son had an idea that, if (0+ / 0-)

it could work would be great. Some red states have refused federal dollars, blue states have asked to get those dollars. I would love to hire away teachers from red states and we pay them with those refused funds. they could enoy a state with stronger unions. Leave the red states and teach in blue states.

Update Ca Schools Diabetes Lawsuit to be heard in Ca Supreme Court(unanimous decision) http://tiny.cc/zknbl

• ##### I would marry this diary...(0+ / 0-)

If it would have me.

• ##### Only the coaches.(0+ / 0-)

If someone wants the oportunity to become a professional athlete, then let them pay tuition. His coaches/teachers should be paid out of that revenue stream.

• ##### Anyone who complains about teacher salaries(0+ / 0-)

should actually try teaching middle school for a few days and see just how easy it is.  I doubt they  would make it through one.

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter. -George Washington

• ##### You get what you pay for(0+ / 0-)

It's so ironic to hear the ignorant attack teachers.  Teachers have strict certification programs, regular reviews, and excessive testing that is squeezing the life out of education.

Does your \$3 babysitter have a master's degree?  Do you test the kids at the end of the year for what they learned?

If you just want public daycare, hire high school dropouts to show PBS specials to the kids, and drop the mandatory testing.  Our children will be ignoramuses, but hey, you get what you pay for.

• ##### I was never overpaid (0+ / 0-)

When my husband got his first teaching position, his salary did not cover all our expenses for normal living, he had to get an extra job to pay for our groceries.  When I graduated to teach, it took both our salaries to stay afloat of home and normal family expenses.  I had 7 years of college and engineers with that amount of college made over twice what I did.  My dentist had 7 years of college and was making over \$100,000 a year.

I had to continue college classes at my own expense and time to keep my salary. I attended PTA on my own time; I was never paid for holidays.  Even though it was called a monthly paycheck it was for the days taught, I signed a contract to teach 180 days a year and it was divided by 12.

My evenings were schoolwork to be ready for the next day. When I added up all my hours correcting papers at home, writing out report cards at home, and designing new curriculum at home after work hours, I found I actually made 5 cents an hour. My workday did not stop just because I had to come home to cook dinner for the family.

‘Where are the big salaries?  The administration always had the big checks and not the teachers. I could tell you tales how they influenced their positions to have the highest retirements possible that were over three times what a teacher would receive in retirement.   People hear something to be against and never look into the facts or truth of who is getting the high money.  When I retired at \$30,000 a year this was not a fat paycheck.

• ##### Teachers trade places with Congress(0+ / 0-)

I believe teachers should trade places with Congress. It should be for one year. Salary and benefits should be swapped.

At the end of the year let's see who wants to vote to decrease teachers salary.

Tha U.S. House of Representatives ans U.S. Senate is a disgrace to this country.

We need to remove them all and elect new people to both houses.

• ##### My take?(0+ / 0-)

Since the % of women teachers is high and because women aren't as aggressive or assertive as men, it is easier to put the blame on them. Plus their general training and nature is to be kind and considerate as well as nurturing, they are probably more prone to being bullied over police and firemen who are typically mostly male and work in positions which require them to be assertive/aggressive. When I first started working (in the 60's), I was hired in a department of mostly women while the men worked in the more strenuous areas "not suitable for women". Even the men running the union thought that most of us were going to get married, have kids and were only  a 2nd income for the family. Over the years, I learned to stand my ground and could out-bully some of the best bullies (including customers). My point is that when conservatives get the message out and they say it over and over and get people to repeat it, part of the battle is already lost regardless if it's about teaching or the necessity to give corporations tax incentive, breaks or subsidies. And if something they don't like gets put into place, they will spend beau coup \$\$ to try to repeal or sue or do whatever it takes to make sure that they can remove money so they can underfund what they want to get rid of. And if they underfund it and it's not working properly then they say "let's just eliminate it."

Again... just my take...

(p.s. in the end I had a lot of  bullies afraid of me)

• ##### Teachers(0+ / 0-)

Teachers deserve a decent pay schedule.  They are after all professionals, hopefully most of them have master's degrees. in the area of their expertise  If they don't they shouldn't be teaching.

But our local teachers have had pay raises every year for the last 25 - 30 years through thick and thin, and it isn't reasonable to expect the locals, who have had pay cuts, pay freezes,or been laid off to cough up more and more.

• ##### i dare you to(0+ / 0-)

become a teacher, work your butt off trying to teach kids who's parents do not properly parent and see how dedicated they have to be to remain viable...try, just try,to get through the day without a lesson plan and be proud of the job you do...it's impossible.  and NO i am not a teacher, but i worked among them for 35 years and saw with my own eyes that 90% of them used their own money to enhance their students' learning experience.

raise a couple of generations of responsible parents and then come back and tell us teachers are overpaid!  in fact, FIND a couple of reallly responsible parents today and ask them what they think about teachers...my bet is they'd say they are underpaid!

• ##### Definition(0+ / 0-)

Conservatism is based on the absolute terror that a small bit of your money will be used to benefit someone else.

• ##### US people are funny(0+ / 0-)

On one hand they are keen on labelling things and put everything into a straight jacket like one has to have a middle name or NMI for non-conformers. On the other hand the school system is a total mess.

I worked in adult education for decades and could not make a teacher explain to me what the FCAT design is all about. If the teacher does not know how can the whole thing work?

In my home country there is one school organisation per state. The teachers are not hired locally but by the state and they go where the state needs them. There is no debate by village what has to be in the text books. The state supplies the books. Period. there are no teachers aids, not even in crowded classes. Crowding is subjective anyway. When I started secondary school (5th grade) we were 56 pupils. I still remember much from my school time because we were pushed to pay attention and be disciplined. There was no competitive sports and all the entertainment they do in schools today. BUT WE LEARNED!

You bet, my schooling was a tiny fraction of what is wasted nowadays, even in today's inflated money. We had no school lawyer, no school nurse, no career counsellor, not even a secretary. We all worked together for the good of all but that would be denounced here as communism. In fact, the US school system is a very bad example of socialism that makes people pay for a service they never use, even on empty lots the counties collect school taxes - how much sicker can it get?

• ##### Oh, yeah. I am sick of highly-paid teachers.(0+ / 0-)

I am also sick of the dancing unicorns.  And the flying fairies flitting about. And did I mention those smug mermaids sunbathing on the rocks? And how about all those GOP politicians who've humbly admitted they were wrong and that we need to take action on global warming?  You didn't see those creatures?  They are right there, in the alternative reality with all the highly-paid teachers..

• ##### Hope this isn't too long, but ...(0+ / 0-)

... I had a lengthy (over 2 weeks) e-mail discussion with family members on this in early January (many in my family (but not me) including 1st wife, son, daughter-in-law and 1st and 2nd cousins are teachers) - excerpt from one e-mail between the `=`= lines in response to query from CA cousin "how much do you think teachers should make?":

`=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=`

I’d recommend a beginning, if not career long, salary of \$174,000.  Or, at the very minimum, \$97,197, again maybe career long - unless additional duties are imposed.  You might ask “What do you base these numbers on?”

First, regarding Performance and Outcomes:

According to http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

Calling it “a profound milestone,” Education Secretary Arne Duncan said Monday that the country has reached its highest graduation rate in history, with 80 percent of students receiving a diploma in 2012, the most recent year for which statistics are available.  [If interested, take a look at this link; tables that begin on page 7 show state-by-state data]

Everyone is displeased with the outcomes of one legislative or regulatory act or another of our elected officials and departments - I may be pleased if the EPA puts more stringent curbs on pollution emissions and you might not be - that’s what happens when 300,000,000+ people coexist in one country we’re just not all alike (duh!).  And, suffice to say, there are many scoundrels in our Congressional offices:
Michael Grimm (R - NY)
•    threatened to throw a reporter off the balcony at the Capitol for doing his job asking questions
•    charged with a 20-count indictment by federal authorities for fraud, federal tax evasion, and perjury (he’s resigned his seat 5 Jan 15 to which he was just elected necessitating a special election)
David Vitter (R - LA)
•    involved with a DC house of prostitution but
•    continues as US Senator
Anthony Weiner (D - NY)
•    was involved in two sexual scandals related to ‘sexting’ or sending explicit sexual material by cell phone but
•    he resigned his office as Representative

And, of course, there are many whom we admire (although possibly not the same ones!).  There are many more examples but you get the idea - not everyone is a stellar example of perfection (indeed, no one is) and outcomes of one’s professional actions are not praised by everyone - there are bad apples who do bad things, bad apples who do good things, good apples who do bad things and good apples who do good things.  We’re all human.

Second, regarding Salaries:

Bottom line?  If our political ‘leaders’ are worth the salaries and allowances shown below, then it seems for sure our teachers should be worth at least that much - after all, they are responsible for not only educating our children and grandchildren but also providing the education and inspiration for ALL (yeah, I used all caps for emphasis) children and education is a step-by-step endeavor from kindergarten (if not pre-k) through high school, each grade providing the building blocks for each successive level of learning.

OK - take a look at these sources for US Congressional salaries and allowances and, just to bring it home for you, CA Assembly salaries [one family member is in CA and decries the high teacher salaries]:

US Congressional salaries, allowances etc.:
Senators/Reps salaries: \$174,000
Speaker of the House:    \$223,500                                           > see pgs. 9 - 10 in the linked source below
Senate Maj/Min leaders and President Pro Tem: \$193,400  /
House Chaplain, among other House Officers (not elected Reps): \$172,500 - not even a lawmaker!!!!  (Is a   chaplain’s salary worth more than an educator’s??  I think not!)

Each House Member MRA (Members' Representational Account): The 2014 allowances ranged from \$1,195,554 to \$1,370,009, with an average MRA of \$1,255,909.18

Then there's the Senate SOPEA (The Senators’ Official Personnel and Office Expense
Account (SOPOEA) which is significantly larger than the MRA, the range being  \$2,984,433 to \$4,722,299.25 The average allowance is \$3,235,422.26

As I understand it, the MRA and the SOPEA amounts are for each Congress person and includes staff salaries, travel, etc. (detailed in Congressional Salaries and Allowances: In Brief  - linked below - worth a look - only 10 pages with a lot of 'white space') with additional allowances for office space, home state and, if necessary, DC.

Source:  Congressional Salaries and Allowances: In Brief   http://www.senate.gov/...

California:
The table shows a salary of \$97,197 for all but 4 assembly members (2 @ \$104,486 and 2 @ \$111,776).  I suspect there are additional funds/allowances for staff, travel and so on.

Sources: http://assembly.ca.gov/...  with several links; and here's a direct link to the salary table for each assembly person: http://assembly.ca.gov/...

`=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=``=`

I emphasize the House Chaplain's salary (even as an atheist, I'm OK with the position, but not the salary) "House Chaplain, among other House Officers (not elected Reps): \$172,500 - not even a lawmaker!!!!  (Is a   chaplain’s salary worth more than an educator’s??  I think not!)"  Sweet Jesus!!

And to those who decry '3 months off' - where the hell are our congress critters most of the time?  Junkets, sabbaticals, weeks-long holiday closings - sheesh!!  Do they have big responsibilities - yes.  Do they discharge them - not lately.  Do teachers have any less responsibilities - I suggest they have the same if not more.

Feel free to use any of this if you get into 'discussions' with friends or family about the disgraceful (ly low) teacher salaries.  I know for a fact that teachers (1) spend their own money for school supplies (2) spend nights and weekends on P/T meetings, grading papers, prepping for classes and (3) so on.

It ain't cheap to run a country nor should it be to educate its citizens.

Keep the faith, in a secular sense, of course
R. Galli - Edison, NJ

• ##### Ok, so this crap discussion about highly(0+ / 0-)

paid teachers needs some clarification:
1. Teachers salaries are computed on a 9 month basis, not 12 months.

2. The money received during "closed schools" comes from a calculation that shaves off an amount that will give your "babysitters" an even 12 month check , so that they can have enough energy to meet your little demons (excuse me--DARLINGS) when school opens again.

I had a forty year stint in the job , so STFU and sit down in your seat and redo your math until you get it right!

What we teachers see when we open the doors for school to begin again is a bunch of bright-eyed youngsters (or they would be if so many of their parents were not so full of narrow minded ideas), who ARE THE FUTURE OF THIS NATION.

If one dares to look into the face of the DEMONIC operation of our nation today, it is obvious that education does not count for much in our culture. Dishonesty is rule ONE (Lie until it sounds true); Theft By Deception (ME,ME, ME!!!), and to hell with everyone else is right up there with first one. Copying from some else is next (pretend that WE found, made, discovered EVERYTHING MODERN IN THE WORLD), WHEN IN FACT we took it from some slave's brain, stole it from some displaced immigrant's brain, and then LOCKED THEM OUT OF BENEFITING FROM THEIR ORIGINAL RESEARCH. The practice of Getting Over By Any Means Necessary is institutionalized in America, and has many of the earmarks of a cult.

Once held up as a beacon of hope by those who lived under petty despots, kings, emperors and such, the past few years have have seen the rise of greed, hate, and exploitation the likes of which boggles the mind. Not to worry, the big lie is now being televised and read instantly on the 'net, and the sun will set on this lie unless ordinary people step up to the challenge of National House Cleaning./strong>

• ##### Demand Congressmen WORK(0+ / 0-)

Don't pay Congressmen for days they do not work.   They only worked 126 days in 2014 and "Working" would be stretching the truth.  We should demand they work a certain number of days and be physically present in D.C., and demand that they can only spend a limited specific number of hours per week with lobbyists (including Congressional Staff), and limit the number of lobbyists they see per week.  We shouldn't be paying for Congressmen to spend all their time the way they do now and we should demand that their full calendars be published weekly.

• ##### Starting salary for a teacher(0+ / 0-)

should be \$50,000.  Each year they should get at least a 3% raise.    When they get their masters there should be a 50% raise, and continue the 3% each year raise, plus cost of living increases.
That would be fair compensation,