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Tea Bag

Everything you need to know about the tea party Republican outlook on the budget debate:

Most Americans say that a federal government shutdown would be bad for the country, according to a new national poll.

But a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey also indicates that Democrats and Republicans don't see eye to eye on the issue, and self-described Tea Party movement supporters say such a shutdown, even for a long period of time, would be a good thing.

The numbers?

Suppose the federal government had to shut down for a few days because Congress did not pass a new spending bill. Would you consider that a good thing for the country or a bad thing for the country?

Good thing: All Americans: 36% (Tea party supporters: 62%)
Bad thing: All Americans: 59% (Tea party supporters: 34%)

Now suppose the federal government had to shut down for a few weeks because Congress did not pass a new spending bill. Would you consider that a good thing for the country or a bad thing for the country?

Good thing: All Americans: 24% (Tea party supporters: 52%)
Bad thing: All Americans: 73% (Tea party supporters: 46%)

Tea party Republicans aren't merely willing to shut down the federal government—they want to shut down the federal government. They think it would be a good thing. Given that fact, it's a fool's errand to negotiate with them on avoiding a government shutdown, because those are negotiations that they want to see fail.

As I argued earlier, yesterday's vote to keep government open another three weeks shows the only path forward for avoiding a government shutdown: House GOP leadership must move forward without tea party Republicans and work out a deal with their Democratic colleagues. That will take some courage, because tea party Republicans are the core of their political base. But if they don't find the political will to forge a compromise, the government will shut down. And it wont be anybody's fault but their own.

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Comment Preferences

  •  How many of the TPGOP realize that (21+ / 0-)

    a govt shutdown would mean suspension of social security funds being dispersed?

    I'm being serious here - I doubt the majority of the "in favor" folks don't even realize that this would happen.

    "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

    by grannyhelen on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:41:54 AM PDT

  •  People too stupid to realize the implications. (8+ / 0-)

    equivalent of a 4-year-old's tantrum.

    "If •I• can't have any pudding, then •YOU• can't either."

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    -Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:44:03 AM PDT

    •  if they force it, there will be a lot of (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      polecat, history first

      angry people. It's certainly not a vote winning strategy for them. Their base will be reinforced, but you can see from the opinion polling results, even the tea party is not unanimous on the shut down. Only the most hard core TP fanatics are in favor, so if the Dems are awake, they should be able to make some hay out of a shut down.

      In addition, all the budget cuts will reduce jobs, hurt real people largely in TP areas probably, and make even more people angry with them. Only the hard core will gloat.

      Political Overreach? Seems likely to me.

      •  Which base? (4+ / 0-)

        The stock market is already tanking because of Japan.  The business community as a whole can't look benignly on shutting down the gov 't and defaulting on the debt.

        Boehner was the first a few weeks agomto come out and say that defaulting was a mistake.  He is in a real bind, as the GOP as a whole.

        Remember when we were told about the tax cuts that business hates uncertainty?  This is going to be worse, much worse.  Boehner really in over his head here. He and that idiot Cantor.  

        The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

        by Mimikatz on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 11:24:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They are reaping the whirlwind (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          history first, Pam from Calif

          from their seeds of discontent.  

          The tea party types have been whipped into a lather by the Koch/Amery Astroturf groups.  They are now the mob,  ready to burn anything down to the ground, Its the mob mentality, reason has no part here.  

          I don't think they will realize the effects of what they are doing until everything stops working for them.  Only then will they wake up from their drunken (with power) rampage.

          It's the Sharrron Angle types that seem to be calling the shots now.  'If you don't like what I want, let it burn.'

          Eventually, the pendulum will swing in the other direction.  We need to push it there and hold it there longer than we did in the past.

          ... the watchword of true patriotism: "Our country - when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right." - Carl Schurz; Oct. 17, 1899

          by NevDem on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 11:43:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Not shocked at all. (10+ / 0-)

    I'm sure many of the same folks joyously expecting the rapture, or something. They're very sure that Deity-of-their-choice will make sure they're not inconvenienced. And Grannyhelen, I bet that there is a LOT they don't realize!

    Let tyrants fear.-Queen Elizabeth I

    by Virginia mom on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:44:19 AM PDT

  •  So much of their posturing is (9+ / 0-)

    a "that'll show 'em" attitude.  Like all bullies, they are more interested in having their way than anything else.  But like all bullies, they are also cowards.  If, as grannyhelen points out, they were to lose their social security benefits, or not get their tax refunds or any other federal supports, they'd be the first ones wailing about the unfairness of it all.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:45:40 AM PDT

  •  Trying to get inside their heads (5+ / 0-)

    While it makes no difference in the isue as an unhelpful negotiating strategy, I am often curious about the rationale behind poll answers.

    Do they think a government shutdown in and of itself is a good thing, as in it would be like the unpaid furloughs many cities/counties/states are turning to in order to save money?
    Or, do they think it would be a good thing in terms of standing firm on principles for elements of whatever budget cutting is in the bill that caused the stand-off, and thus worth the negative cost?

    •  If they are anything (5+ / 0-)

      Like the teabagger I used to work with.  They want to fight the democrats and get rid of social security because?  Not sure, but it sounded like it had to do something with his lazy-ass brother who lived on social security.  Teabaggers are a really twisted bunch.  But my friend at work, he was a hard-worker alright, not like his brother.

      p.s. Don't get me wrong.  I'm using my friends words above.  I just could not understand how somebody whose own brother survived on social security would want to kill it.  And it did seem to have something to do with a "work ethic" belief.  Really fun to get to know a teabagger.

      They tortured people to get false confessions to justify invading Iraq.

      by yet another liberal on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:51:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not surprised at all (7+ / 0-)

    Just talking with some of the Tea Party members for a short time makes it obvious that they would love for the government to shut down.  They are convinced that the government is the root of all evil.  Their convoluted logic tells them that if government shuts down, or goes away completely, they "get to keep more of what they earn".  

    They actually never give one second's worth of thought of what the consequences of a government shut down would mean.  I have also yet to meet one Tea Party member that's willing to refuse their social security or medicare benefits for the sake of lower taxes.  

    •  Sometimes I think TeaPartiers have split-brain. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Spot Cat, mungley, Matt Z, history first

      To me, that's the only rational explanation that makes sense how they can have two totally different sets of beliefs about the same set of facts.  But even people with split-brain can learn how to connect again.  It's just that TeaPartiers aren't inclined to do that.  It's hard work.

  •  "Movement" brought to you by CNN (9+ / 0-)

    Funded by Koch Industries.

  •  why do teaparty want the shutdown (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, mungley, Catte Nappe

    you cannot reason with people who did not arrive at their position with logic, but just curious if they are providing any "talking points".

    •  shutdown is a litmus test.......primary those who (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG, mungley

      vote against it?

    •  Because they (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mungley, Virginia mom

      believe in a literal interpretation of the Gospel According to St. Ronald:

      And thus spake Ronald to the brethren. Yea, I say that there are scary words in the English language and that the scary words are these: Behold me, I am from the government and I am here to help.

      Thank-you Mike Huckabee for warning us about the Mau Mau threat to our way of life!

      by Red Bean on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:04:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's so easy to remember instances (0+ / 0-)

        of "helpful" government, too, and to forget how it helps all of us, all the time.

        Easy for me to remember the agricultural agent who advocated digging one foot wide and deep holes on a yard by yard grid all over rocky and hilly, brush covered South Texas pasture land as rain catchers. Not only would it have been exorbitantly expensive, the vets and cowboys would not have been able to handle the animals with broken legs due to falling in the holes. Harad to forget that "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" moment.

        On the other hand, it's hard to remember what our communities would be like without the much maligned but essential DMV, teachers, road building and repair division, fire and police and justice, welfare and standards of all kinds, and so forth.

        How about a nuclear plant in every county? Lots of entrepreneurs might want to get into that business. Lots of health advocate would protest. Would they shoot it out, if there were no government processes to regulate and adjudicate decisions? Lovely.

  •  They're a bunch of arrested development (6+ / 0-)

    reptile brains with no critical thinking skills. I'd call them zombies, but zombies actually like brains.

    We moved to DK4 and all I got was this sig line

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:50:25 AM PDT

  •  Brat Pack House GOoPers gotta fold space again.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ericlewis0, mungley, Matt Z


  •  nobody's fault but the REPUBLICANS'. (6+ / 0-)

    This will need to be repeated again and again, if and when a shutdown occurs, as the GOP will lie and try to blame Dems.

    I ♥ President Barack Obama.

    by ericlewis0 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:51:14 AM PDT

  •  Do they (0+ / 0-)

    not understand that those in the Tea Party who collect Social Security will not get checks?  To name but one problem with the shutdown.

  •  Thanks more 100% of nothing brought to you (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinamerica, mungley, Matt Z

    by the 100% of know nothings.

    Hope they enjoy having their checks bounce as their SS payments get stopped as well as the paychecks for people in the military, another bunch of regressives. Good! You reap what you sow. Now we have a poison up people; this is what they wanted.

    John Kasich, R-OH-gov hates black people, women, children, and unions, I guess that covers almost everyone.

    by OHknighty on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:53:20 AM PDT

  •  Does this mean the troops don't get paid, the (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberte, mungley, Matt Z

    federal prison staffs don't show up for work, the Border Patrol and INS leave the gates open, etc., etc., etc.?  Take to your bunkers, TPers.

    •  Does this mean the TeaPartyers don't get paid? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mungley, Matt Z

      And their staff gets furloughed?  Are they willing to work without pay and benefits?  Or would they consider themselves essential, and be exempted from the shutdown?  So many questions.

    •  It ALSO means that the federal contractors (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      don't get paid.

      There are millions of Americans who work in industries supported directly by government contracts. Those checks won't be going out either.

      Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. - Poor Richard's Almanac 1755

      by mungley on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:29:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I once saw an LOLcat (4+ / 0-)

    with the caption; "I no haz peetsa, YOU no haz peetsa". Spiteful, hateful bastards. The cat sitting on top of the pizza box was cute. These teabaggers are NOT.

    "Warm smell of Moulitsas rising up in the air..." -seanwright

    by GenXangster on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:55:13 AM PDT

  •  I'll bet that they don't know.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SteelerGrrl, Margd, Odysseus

    what would actually be shut down.  They probably think it would be Congress.  I'd guess they don't realize it would prevent overseas travel for people that need passports, or that Social Security checks would stop, or that Medicare payments would stop.

    There is a price to be paid for ignorance.  I certainly hope that their ignorance doesn't force the rest of us to pay an unnecessary price.

    Please check out "Songwriter," my new CD

    by DHinIA on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 09:57:39 AM PDT

  •  W drove the country into a ditch (8+ / 0-)

    Tea Party wants to drive it off a cliff

  •  I guess this shouldn't surprise us, (5+ / 0-)

    seeing how eager they are to bring on Armageddon. They look foward to destruction of the world, why not start with destruction of government.

     I hope they have fun trying to survive without their social security and medicare checks while they wait to be raptured.

  •  These are the bush voters (12+ / 0-)

    they voted for bush, and think Obama is a bad president. They are idiots. They believe a fat drug addict millionaire on the radio. They think the president is from Kenya. They are ok with debt and deficit when the white guy in charge drags them into illegal wars but they hate the black guy in charge who is actually reducing the deficit. They are liars, they lie to themselves every time they watch fox news. They refuse to face any reality about how an economy actually work. They think they are intelligent because they listen to right  wing talk radio instead of country music  in the car. they become angry and confused when their right wing talking points are questioned. They are the people who think that pro wrestling is real. They think James Okeefe is a journalist. They think fox news is fair and balanced. They think that joining a group run by former GOP congressmen makes them political outsiders. They went from from "freedom isn't free" to " taxed enough already" they are the tea party. They represent about 20% of the people and get about 80 % of the news coverage. And they want to shut down America, not because they hate our country, but because they would rather be ignorant and hateful than proven wrong

  •  this is problem all along IMO (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Noamjunior, GeorgeXVIII, Matt Z
    it's a fool's errand to negotiate with them

    The teabaggers are freaking terrorists and should be treated as such -  or if you all prefer, enemy's of the state

  •  So the Tea Party wants to do a "Walker"... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AgentOfProgress, Matt Z

    If they shut down the government they will also sink their ship.

    Perhaps it's a good thing they're that stupid.

  •  Tea Party Soc Security & "disability" checks (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raboof, AgentOfProgress, Matt Z

    would stop, and they'd be lookin' for the socialist who stole them.

    If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people. --Tony Benn

    by rhetoricus on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:07:36 AM PDT

  •  Cons always say government doesn't work (8+ / 0-)

    and when Elected, they prove themselves right

  •  Just for kicks, I'd like to tell the (4+ / 0-)

    teabaggers that one of the functions of the Federal Government is to keep the radio transmitters running.  The FCC pumps out the radio waves.  If the government shuts down, they can't listen to Limbaugh, Savage and Levin.  Would they believe this?  Seems like they'd believe anything.

    Barack Obama in the Oval Office: There's a black man who knows his place.

    by Greasy Grant on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:09:29 AM PDT

  •  The Tea Party is a Minority of Voters (6+ / 0-)

    They are a very small minority (under 20%), does anyone recall that when they make them THE deciding factor?

    The Republicans and Koch Brothers manufactured this entity to make up for their more than 20 pt deficit with minority voters.

    So isn't it time for CNN to request the political views of the minority voters that this conkochted 'party' pits itself against with such fantacism?

    •  They Reflect a Great Deal of Donors and Media Spon (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sister Havana, Matt Z, history first

      sorship. Rightwing corporatist political media spending exploded since C.U.

      Media push the tea party because it's powerfully in their interest to do it.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:21:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They absolutely have no concept of reality. (4+ / 0-)

    Do they know how this will effect Grandma?  I honestly do not think that most of the tea party members are not smart enough to understand what a shut down means.  They treat it as if they are putting an errant child in time-out.

    If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders --- George Carlin

    by winter outhouse on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:12:35 AM PDT

  •  How did TP get such power & influence? (5+ / 0-)

    By any measure, TP supporters are a minority of the population. I've seen numbers like 20-30%.

    Why the fuckng hell are THEY calling the shots? We had incredible majorities in the House and the Senate, but had serious trouble getting stuff done. TP has maybe 30% and we are negotiating at the edge of what THEY want? Why?

    I don't understand. I'm genuinely mystified. Any clues welcome.

    The invasion of Iraq was a war crime, a crime against humanity, and a crime against civilization. Prosecute the crime.

    by Positronicus on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:14:08 AM PDT

  •  Using Excel Solver I get a very interesting sample (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AgentOfProgress, Matt Z

    43% Tea Party Support
    11% Neutral
    46% Tea Party Opposed

    And if I apply that to the Good Idea/Bad Idea for a complete shutdown I get

    63% of Tea Party thinking it's cool
    17% of everybody else thinking it's cool


    1. So many Tea Wees
    2. Burying the lede: They're not way off the mainstream point of view - they are diametrically opposed to it.

  •  Tea Party is More a Donors' Party Than Voters' (3+ / 0-)

    Which is why they get so much of what they want, including media time.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:16:27 AM PDT

  •  Democrats need to be careful (6+ / 0-)

    that the GOP does not use TEA Party threat to get them to cave even more than they have.

    Boehner, "Look Democrats, we are trying to hold them back. Just give us a few more working class benefits we can give handout to our Big Money supporters and we'll keep those rabid TEA folk on a short lease. If not who know what they will do!"

    I don't know what consciousness is or how it works, but I like it.

    by SocioSam on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:17:23 AM PDT

  •  "Tea Party" Republicans (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mungley, Matt Z

    We shouldn't be using their terminology to describe them. They refuse to call The Democratic Party by its official name, so why should we give them the meme space?

    It's better to call them what they are: "Extreme-Right Republicans".

  •  Do they know that includes medicare, and Social (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


    Can hatred of their fellow Americans be so strong that they are willing to harm themselves to inflict pain on others?

    Do they understand that most of the are doing the bidding of a few very rich people who will not be affected by a shut down?

    Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. - Poor Richard's Almanac 1755

    by mungley on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:23:21 AM PDT

  •  "Shutdown" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Actually, when we're hearing the pundits and political analysts and TV News anchors and such talking about how this action or that action (or lack thereof) would 'shutdown" government, the word "shutdown" isn't exactly being used accurately.  If there's no budget vote and so forth, then yes, some of the offices and services and other functions of government would stop until there is a resolution.  But, essential provisions and services would continue.

    In any case, no one will gain anything if even the "shutdown" they're talking about comes about.  Most people would see it as republicans just flexing their political muscles and at the end of the day, it would not only hurt a great many people relying on government for a myriad services but it would hurt the republican party as well.

    There are always options to keep government funded, if nothing else but re-instituting short-term provisions until the two sides can come to agreement.

  •  I don't suppose that it's possible (0+ / 0-)

    ..but it would be nice to see a graph regarding "tea-partier's" IQs.

    The anti-intellectualism, the misspelled signs, the anti-science mindset..  

    It's the attack of the Know Nothings. The rise of the Simpletons.

    This is what passes for a brilliant "strategery" in the hallowed halls of Koch? These are the tools they plan on using to gain power over the rest of America?

    We really should be able to do better.

    An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics - Plutarch

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:25:09 AM PDT

  •  Ah, the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sister Havana, Matt Z

    Tryanny of the Minority...

    "My case is alter'd, I must work for my living." Moll Cut-Purse, The Roaring Girl - 1612, England's First Actress

    by theRoaringGirl on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:36:07 AM PDT

    Recommended by:

    Today’s Republicans don't believe “they” are their brother’s keepers. They don’t believe in humanity or the teachings of Jesus Christ. They reject social equity and moral equality. They have no compassion for the sufferings of their less fortunate fellow Americans.

    They think “free” trade means they are “free” to ship American jobs overseas - and “free” to claim that denying jobs to Americans is “good capitalism”. Driving jobs out of America and Americans out of their homes is "just business"; nothing "personal". The consequences to American families have no “personal” implications for “them”.

    Corporations must be given the same first amendment free speech rights as individual citizens so they can "buy" candidates and elections, despite the fact that works against the financial interests of middle/working class Americans and snuffs out the power of their votes.

    Pollution, global warming and deforestation are all improvable "myths" of egg-head/tree-hugger scientists who are “socialist” enemies of “over-regulated” capitalism. The earth, which right wing fundamentalist claim is less than 6,000 years old, will miraculously heal itself! All we have to do is “pray”.

    For today's self-focused/self-consumed Republicans, it's not about right or wrong, good or bad, fair or unfair, rational or irrational. They want what they want for no other reason than they WANT it, regardless of the consequences to themselves and everyone else! Somehow, that makes "them" feel good about themselves...makes “them” feel superior…makes “them” feel safe.

  •  One small adjustment. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Virginia mom, Matt Z

    It should actually be "Tea Party Republicans and Fox News personalities." They're all jonesing for a government shutdown too.

    Yes we can! Yes we did! Yes we will!

    by Sister Havana on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 10:41:07 AM PDT

  •  At what point are they considered anarchists? (0+ / 0-)

    Seriously? They want the government to shut down for a long time? Isn't that anarchy?

  •  Start with air traffic control (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Let's ground all air traffic and see how they like it.

    •  Although that *would* be a good thing. (0+ / 0-)

      Air travel is absolutely horrible from a carbon perspective, and when flights were grounded after 9/11, people made do.

      -7.75 -4.67

      "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

      There are no Christians in foxholes.

      by Odysseus on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 01:04:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  CNN is liberal only so why doubt the numbers? (0+ / 0-)

    Why would anyone doubt the headline that Repub's want a shutdown when a CNN poll was conducted.   They don't talk to conservatives so how could it be anything but what they wanted it to say!

  •  Teapeople aren't like the rest of us. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Margd, Odysseus

    On the second question you've highlighted - shut down for a few weeks, teapeople are literally the only demographic group reported that is in favor.  The only group.  The Republican base of men and whites?  They say it's a bad thing, 71:27.  The Republican base of... Republicans?  They also say it's a bad thing, 57:39.  Self-identified conservatives?  Bad, 57:40.  Every geographic group.  Every age demographic.  Low income or not.  College educated or not.  Only the teapeople want to shut the government down.

    The only non-ideological group to come in under 70% bad is Midwesterners, at 64%.  Whether they're actually that reactionary or if they're just somewhat terrified of government given the assholes they've elected in OH, PA, WI, MI, etc. I couldn't say.  Every other group that doesn't explicitly identify as Republican, conservative, or teapeople is at least 70% opposed.  And even the Republicans and conservatives think it would be a bad thing for the country.  Except the teapeople.

    Men: 71% bad
    Women: 75%
    Whites: 71%
    Non-Whites: 80%
    Under 50: 74%
    50+: 72%
    Under $50k income: 73%
    Over $50k income: 73%
    No College: 74%
    College: 72%
    Democrats: 89%
    Independents: 71%
    Republicans: 57% say it's a bad thing!
    Liberals: 84%
    Moderates: 83%
    Conservatives: 57%
    Northeasterners: 78%
    Midwesterners: 64%
    Southerners: 71%
    Westerners: 78%
    Urbanites: 78%
    Suburbanites: 70%
    Teapeople: 46%
    non-Teapeople: 78%
    anti-Teapeople: 87%

    "And the President of the United States - would be seated right here. I would be here. And he would be here. I would turn - and there he’d be. I could pet ‘im." - Lewis Black

    by libdevil on Wed Mar 16, 2011 at 11:51:51 AM PDT

  •  What would happen during a shutdown. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This is from the following link:

    "But everyone dreads the prospect. The last time the government shut down was during the Clinton administration. For five days in November 1995 and 21 days between December 1995 and January 1996, the lights went off. In the first shutdown, 800,000 workers stopped heading into the office. In the second, about 284,000 stayed at home, with an additional 475,000 working on "non-pay status." These were not just pencil-pushers either. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention gave up on monitoring the outbreak of diseases. Workers at 609 Superfund toxic-waste sites stopped cleaning up. "

    Another thing that was said in this article is that the president has WIDE discretion during a government shutdown on what he determines is "emergency".

    But...still think no one wins if this does happen.

  •  I almost agree with the Tea Party (0+ / 0-)

    I suppose I back away in that it would be too hard on those who need the government most. But I think a pretty hard 2 or 3 month shutdown, if the GOP is held to blame by the public, might destroy the lies of have-mores.

    It would be hard medicine - chemotherapy if you will - for America but nothing would drive home how much we need the government doing it's job. Nothing would demonstrate to the ignorant that the government provides the environment in which its markets - free, fair, or otherwise - function or not.

    This might well start to knock down 30 years of Neoconservative lies and perhaps finally open the eyes of those who think government is more an impediment than a large number of possible solutions to our problems. If it would finally lay those Neocon owner-class neofascist plans to rest it would be worth it.

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