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I am a born feminist. How do I know this?  Well, my earliest memories are conversations with my Mother asking why my older brother was allowed to do things I was forbidden to do.  Simple things.  Climb trees, roam the neighborhood.  Simple things.  Childhood things.  Her response?  "He's a boy."  My response?  "So?"  Her response:  "That's just the way it is."  My response?  "That makes no sense."  "That is unfair."  Her response?  "Life is unfair".  Imagine for a second that I was an African-American and substitute boy for white.  Yep.  Just as there is institutionalized racism, there is institutionalized sexism.  Really early on I knew in my gut that life was nonsensically unfair for those of us born with vaginas and those of us born with the "wrong" skin color.  Still I was as a child, and remain to this day, a willful mouthy woman who never accepted the premise of "that's just the way it is," as anything other than the grand cop out that it is.  

A little older I learned the term "penis envy".  I was insulted by the term.  I have never wanted to be the proud owner of a penis.  Nope.  I simply wanted what I felt I was born entitled to...the same privileges that penis owners possess.  So, in lieu of penis envy, I say I have "privilege" envy.  

What privilege(s) do I speak of? The privilege to make any choice I damn well choose, about my body, my finances, to have my voice heard and taken seriously, and to move about in this world freely without fear of being maimed, kidnapped, raped or killed.  To live my life defined in my OWN terms and not in the context of male approval or disapproval.  I think that's pretty standard human stuff.  Ya know, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness kind of stuff.  Yet, throughout my entire life, I've been told time and time again - usually by men - that I expect too much.  I've also been told, by men solely, something along the lines of "can't you just fake it?"  Men need to feel they are the final voice.  Men need to feel role of protector and provider.  Why can't you do that?  Well, I can't.  Oh and my all time favorite, from a man and a variation on this theme from my Mom, "Dixiedemocrat you are cursed.  God gave you a great brain AND great looks."  "Good luck, being happy in this life."  "Men need to feel smarter than you."  Smile, play dumb, and be happy.  Well, you may as well have asked me to grow gills and live under water. I simply want the freedom to be who I am AND be appreciated by a man who is not the least bit threatened by my opinionated mouth, good looks, and great brain.  

Feminists like Betty Freidan, Gloria Steinhem and Bella Abzug argued that feminism is not JUST about women.  That ALL of society benefits from the unfettered contributions of women and that evolved men "get this."  Funny, the only evolved male names I recall being mentioned at the time were Alan Alda and Phil Donohue.  SO in this age of "Real Housewives" glorifying the bitchy, shallow, catty lives of "trophy" Stepford Wives, I ask of this community, PLEASE tell me what does a "male feminist" look like.  I sure would like one in my life and Phil and Alan are already spoken for.  What qualities does a male feminist possess?  

Poll

Male Feminists:

23%17 votes
39%29 votes
1%1 votes
8%6 votes
26%19 votes

| 73 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (18+ / 0-)

    "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

    by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:24:02 PM PDT

    •  For me, a feminist man is someone who (14+ / 0-)

      knows how to place the experiences of women, told by women, and lived by women, ahead of his own "common sense" or need to be right or have his feelings protected. He understands that the very nature of patriarchy means that he has lived a life that women know more about than he knows of their lives b/c that's how privilege works. The oppressed always know more about the lives of their oppressors than the oppressor needs to know about the lives of those who are oppressed. This is true of any oppressive system. I am not claiming that all individual men are specifically responsible for the oppression of all individual women. It's much more complex than that.

      Ultimately any man is the recipient of privilege due to patriarchy. That's the default. A man (just like a white person or someone with wealth) must work to discover that privilege, see the many ways it plays out and be open to changing their notions of how the world works/what they are entitled to.

      I think feminist men are deeply curious more than defensive. They know when a dynamic that is being discussed doesn't relate to them, so they don't have to say, "But I don't do that! Don't vilify all men!" b/c they know that all men aren't being vilified. Only the men who engage in the behaviors being described are being called out.

      Feminist men need to learn. They need to read, listen, and do their own work. They need to advocate with other men. This is especially important!

      And they need to know that the strongest allies to men-as human-beings are feminists because feminism means seeing through the ridiculous and toxic gender binary that demands full compliance with strictly constructed gender norms that have no bearing or relationship with actual human beings on a gender continuum (as we all are).

      Thanks for the diary!

      Let the yoke fall from our shoulders; Don’t carry it all, don’t carry it all; We are all our hands and holders; Beneath this bold and brilliant sun; And this I swear to all - The Decemberists

      by Tookish on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:50:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh Tookish-THANK YOU! (7+ / 0-)

        This was the kind of thoughtful comment I was hoping to find here.  BRILLIANT comment!  I particularly like, "I think feminist men are deeply curious more than defensive."  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  You gave me a brilliant star on my map to finding my "feminist guy", and also made me do a check on my OWN defensiveness.  You have so put a smile on my face.

        "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

        by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:01:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow-big smile (10+ / 0-)

          I can't tell you how happy that makes me! I seriously (in a major geek way) live for talking about gender and feminism. It hasn't ended up being my formal area of study but my journey was similar to yours: I was a feminist before I even had heard that word. When I figured out that Shakespeare had 3 times the number of questions on the English AP exam to the Brontes (all of them combined!), I had already been identified by most of the people in my life as a "ball buster" which was totally unfair b/c in most cases I was just pointing out, like you, flagrant double standards.

          I'm so glad my thoughts were helpful and thank you for bringing it up. I so appreciate when people want to give feminism the true meta consideration it deserves. Patriarchy is like the Palmolive commercial: we're soaking in it. And when that's true, it takes effort and choice to see and analyze the incredibly dense, complex and embedded layers that exist all around us.

          *Just always want to point out that while patriarchy, race, and class have their unique ways of playing out, that most things I observe about patriarchy are also true for race and class. And while I'm a woman (with a learning disability) and so I know something about oppression from the perspective of the oppressed, I am also white and middle class and my work is with seeing my privilege in those areas.

          Let the yoke fall from our shoulders; Don’t carry it all, don’t carry it all; We are all our hands and holders; Beneath this bold and brilliant sun; And this I swear to all - The Decemberists

          by Tookish on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:19:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Again, thank you. (6+ / 0-)

            I'm a progressive because "life isn't fair".   When you SEE that, you're left with 1 of 2 choices - fight it or as you so aptly put it, "soak in it."   The whole thing is stupid as far as I can see it....broken down to its basics.  I can't help but see the world through the lenses I was born with which is, in a nutshell, just because you are white and male does not give you some God-given understanding or entitlement to run the world that the rest of us do not possess.  (I have nothing against white males by the way).  I just have always taken issue with those who would preserve "that's just the way it is"..and because white/male has been a prevalent domination throughout the centuries....well, that's worked so well, we may as well keep it going...because it somehow proves superiority????)  Really?  Nonsense.   "There are a million ways to be".  

            "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

            by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:35:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I think the bumper sticker.... (8+ / 0-)

        ....sums it up best: "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people."

        •  Yes. And it really is a radical notion. As crazy (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          arizonablue, Dixiedemocrat, Mayfly

          as that seems.

          Let the yoke fall from our shoulders; Don’t carry it all, don’t carry it all; We are all our hands and holders; Beneath this bold and brilliant sun; And this I swear to all - The Decemberists

          by Tookish on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:42:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Then maybe we should co-opt the word (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tookish

          "humanism."

          ♥ Medicare For All. ♥
          "Our health care system is like a casino. The insurance industry is the House... The House always wins." -- UnaSpenser

          by Chi on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:48:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'll continue: (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tookish, Mayfly

            Humanism is the radical notion that all human beings, of every race, gender, nationality, tribe, ability or disability, favorite baseball team, etc. are equal, giving each the right to freedom and self-determination.  No exceptions.

            I know this word has another meaning presently in use.  But as a feminist myself, I wish we have a word that wasn't so feminine, y'know?  Kinda excludes people.  

            Oh well.  

            ♥ Medicare For All. ♥
            "Our health care system is like a casino. The insurance industry is the House... The House always wins." -- UnaSpenser

            by Chi on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:52:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I look forward to the day when we can see (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Chi, Dixiedemocrat, metal prophet

              more of what connects us through all these various oppressive systems and the myriad ways they dehumanize all of us than we see of how we are different and separate. I truly believe that when a pro-union guy (just one example--you could look at this through any lens) gets that he has common cause with a pro-choicer and a pro-immigration advocate and a green jobs creator and can see how all those issues are deeply related, we will be on the verge of a new age.

              Just as an example, I saw a Latino man driving by in a large truck with his mud flaps and license plate covered with the silhouette of the naked and big boobs woman. I thought how about how willing I am to be an ally to issues facing the Latino community, willing to listen, willing to learn from them what they know about what they need. But here is a place where this man must learn how to be an ally to women. He doesn't see how it's related but it is. I'm not talking a quid pro quo--it's more just the reality of what it means when we embark on the journey of wanting to be seen as human. We must do the work of learning how to humanize those who we've been taught to dehumanize. It's the only way.

              Let the yoke fall from our shoulders; Don’t carry it all, don’t carry it all; We are all our hands and holders; Beneath this bold and brilliant sun; And this I swear to all - The Decemberists

              by Tookish on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 09:02:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Great, when all people are equal.... (0+ / 0-)

              ....let's all become humanists. Until then, we need feminism. It's not all about men. For once, don't you think women should have a tiny corner of the world? That's feminism.

      •  Beautifully said! eom (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tookish, Dixiedemocrat

        ♥ Medicare For All. ♥
        "Our health care system is like a casino. The insurance industry is the House... The House always wins." -- UnaSpenser

        by Chi on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:46:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's interesting being a father and a feminist; (9+ / 0-)

    one is (and ought to be!) always on guard against lazy gender generalizing.  It doesn't help having a spouse that thinks pink goes w/ everything, I guess, but it is funny now that the younger son is starting to wear the older daughter's hand-me-downs.  He's always wearing at least one item of pink clothing. (which proved me right: "let's skip the pink and just get everything in neutrals," I said.)

    •  HAH! The politics of "pink" (7+ / 0-)

      could be it's own diary.  Johnny, being a father, tell me WHAT do you want the world to look like for your children?  So, are you saying it bothered you that your son wanted to wear pink or did I not read you right? :)

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:40:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  On the other hand, maybe pink looks good on him?nt (5+ / 0-)
    •  If he grows up defending pink... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tonyahky, arizonablue

      as "it's not a girl/boy thing, why would it be?", you'll probably have raised a feminist boy.  Ever read Sandra Bem's An Unconventional Family? (If I remember the title correctly).

      Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's _The Great Unraveling_ (available from Google Books). NOW.

      by neroden on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:28:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As the feminist mother of a daughter (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dixiedemocrat, Mayfly

      I have an easy out in the title 'tomboy.' I always dressed her in clothing of either gender as it was convenient, favoring boy's warmer styles in the winter and girl's cooler ones in the summer and as she became aware of gender I had this handy label that meant she was a girl who liked some boy things.

      She has taken to it and it lets her do what she wants despite the boys trying to tell her she couldn't be Spiderman or her clothing choices being different from the other girls. She always has this word that says the gender rules don't have to apply to her.

      Sometimes I feel guilt because there isn't a like term for boys who don't want to be boxed into their assigned role either. How do the feminist men help their sons with this issue?

      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. Terry Pratchett

      by Toon on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 09:13:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think feminist men assure their sons that they (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Toon

        are masculine.  Therefore, whatever the sons' preferences, those are masculine ones.  In other words, let the child be the standard.

        Personally, I've always felt that if I do it, it must be feminine.

        US energy corporations realize that both solar and wind power share one big drawback--they are free.

        by Mayfly on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 03:45:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Speaking of pink--back in the early '60s (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dixiedemocrat

      I absent-mindedly threw a red sweatshirt in the wash with my husband's white underwear.  His underwear came out a lovely shade of pink.  

      We were living on the outskirts of a kind of frontier town then, and he was a sort of local star because of his prowess at hunting and fishing.  He was first annoyed with me about his pink T-shirts, etc.  But after awhile he forgot about it and wore one pink T-shirt into town.  Sensation!  

      When he returned home he laughed about it.

      US energy corporations realize that both solar and wind power share one big drawback--they are free.

      by Mayfly on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 03:39:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  To guote Ms. Swan... (7+ / 0-)

    ..."he look like a man!"

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:41:58 PM PDT

  •  This Feminist Man looks a lot like (7+ / 0-)

    Noel Paul Stookey.

    I was often mistaken for Noel during a few years when my wife and his wife were working at the same place. We once chatted about the possibility of pulling off a switch. We agreed that a little makeup would would be sufficient to make a side-by-side comparison a bit difficult for someone who hadn't met either of us previously.

    Even our facial hair is nearly identical. Our wives were quite amused.

    Our wives are genuine feminists and accomplished women, by the way.

    If only I had a fraction of his talent...

    "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

    by GrumpyOldGeek on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:44:49 PM PDT

  •  It's a struggle (9+ / 0-)

    expecting equal pay for equal work, but being held to a different standard that's impossible to achieve.
    Or expecting the final say when it comes to our bodies and health and expecting the government to stay out of our choices.

    I'm really lucky, as I am married to man who I suppose would be called a 'feminist'.
    We do have a 50-50 relationship in all things, except for heavy-lifting, but age is making us more equal when it comes to that now.

    My husband comes from a family of 7 children and his mother was forced to support and raise them all when his father left them all to fend for themselves.
    Back in those days, there weren't the protections of child support, but then my husband's father spent the little money that he did have in the bars.

    My mother-in-law is an incredible woman who was forced to go out and go back to school and then get a job.
    They relied heavily on charity, which still shames the kids to this day, but eventually the mother did all right financially, even though they lived in subsidized housing, they did do all right.

    I think it is my mother-in-law's strength that shaped my husband's views regarding women, but oddly, 2 of his brothers don't share those same views.

    One of the things that the family does share in common is their donations to charity, because they all know how important charities are when it comes to helping the poor.

    Hang in there, dixiedem, and demand respect, because without respect equality and relationships are doomed.

  •  The Major Ethnicities in Our Family (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tonyahky, Tookish, Chi, Toon

    are fairly comfortable with equal opportunity for women. Many of them worked during WW2, and they first began to go to college 2 generations ago when society only offered little opportunity beyond teacher or nurse.

    Socially at family or interest group gatherings our women and men mixed comfortably. I was pleased to see the same in encountering gatherings of immigrants of our background. This is something that varies a lot by culture and education; we're still as much tapestry as melting pot, as the Canadians say.

    I always felt the gender restrictions were completely unfair, as a kid in the days before The Pill. It was dramatic and refreshing to see women's rights and their confidence in expanding them accelerate during that period.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:55:40 PM PDT

  •  Lets Try This (6+ / 0-)
    Simple things.  Climb trees, roam the neighborhood.  Simple things.

    I did all those things with this gal. She and I where best friends in like 1983-1986. We lost touch. Had the same exact birthday.

    20 years later we are going to hoist a beer.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 05:57:05 PM PDT

    •  Oh, I ignored my mom & roamed freely. (5+ / 0-)

      But there was a fear inculcated in me at a very early age - that bad things happen to little girls who "wander".  Nancy Grace, to my mind, is the culmination of society's big warning that if you are a woman, you better be "safe than sorry".  I know there are very real scary things out there-not naive- but I know many, many, wonderful friends, women-and myself to a degree that have continued our adult lives "roaming where we want to."

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:15:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  From what I understand.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mayfly

        ....women are far more often going to be victimized by people they know than people they don't know. Interestingly, it's men who have more to fear from strangers, usually because men do dumb shit like not backing down from a fight, even if some guy is pointing a gun at your head.

        •  When I was the first woman (0+ / 0-)

          in a job requiring visits into both "safe" and "tough" neighborhoods--my supervisor, a real sweetie-pie guy--said he would take all the "tough" neighborhoods.  I said No Way.

          "I am safer than you are," I explained to him.  "Some guy might look tough standing up to you, but he wouldn't look tough standing up to me--he would just look like a bully.

          We were in a job where there were always witnesses and my take proved to be accurate.

          US energy corporations realize that both solar and wind power share one big drawback--they are free.

          by Mayfly on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 04:22:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  metal prophet, I think you have to factor in where (0+ / 0-)

          men are willing to go and where women restrict themselves

          I am thinking particularly of my daughter's high school boy friend who was 6'4" and muscular and thought he was bullet-proof.  He laughed at my daughter for her caution. He was a lucky fool.

          US energy corporations realize that both solar and wind power share one big drawback--they are free.

          by Mayfly on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 04:28:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, (0+ / 0-)

    Feminism is about Humanity, glad to hear it.

    Humanity also happens to encompass women, all women, even those in your last paragraph.

    No tip, no rec, for the kind of divisive, phony crap that can so often pass for Feminism.

    •  Huh? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      arizonablue, thomask, Toon

      Seriously Maori.  I know my own intent and who I am.  My thoughts, as expressed, are neither phony or crap -not to me anyway since I know my own heart.  So please tell me WHAT doesn't ring true with you?  I simply shared my own experiences and asked a question a sincere question.

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:19:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't understand either (0+ / 0-)

        I see nothing divisive in your diary or anything that could be considered "phony crap".

        Perhaps there is a reading comprehension problem?

      •  It sounded like you were saying (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grover

        that "bitchy, shallow, catty lives of "trophy" Stepford Wives"are not part of "ALL of society."

        I'm not saying I agree with Maori, but that how I read the comment.

        Y'en a pas un sur cent et pourtant ils existent / La plupart Espagnols allez savoir pourquoi / Faut croire qu'en Espagne on ne les comprend pas / Les anarchistes -- Leo Ferré

        by Anak on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:59:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  feminist men make great daddies... (6+ / 0-)

    just ask my daughter.
    ;-)>

    "We're right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody's giving booze to these goddamn things!"-Hunter S. Thompson ;-)>

    by rogerdaddy on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:25:13 PM PDT

    •  Yes, they do. My dad was quite a male feminist (4+ / 0-)

      especially for somebody born on 1913, but his life experiences made him that way. I was taught many things that most girls back then, in eastern KY, were never taught--like how to drive a truck, how to use power tools, and the basics of how to do masonry work, to name just a few of the wonderful lessons I was taught. To this day, I have to giggle when some guy sees me doing things women just aren't supposed to be able to do, and they give me these shocked looks...

    •  ...or sometimes they don't (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      arizonablue, tonyahky

      ...like when they recognize that parenting and decisions regarding parenting can't always be reduced to sperm donorship.

      I've always felt that a truly feminist man is one who doesn't reify his sperm.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:45:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting question for a male nurse (14+ / 0-)

    I have an unusual perspective that comes from being a male in a profession that has always been identified as a woman's profession.  Most of my workmates and closest friends are women, and in many ways I've been admitted into the society of women in ways that relatively few men - especially straight men - are.  Not too many men have attended bridal showers, but I went to several in nursing school - learned interesting things.  I've always thought of myself as profoundly feminist, but I'm not sure that's for me to judge.  As to the initial question, I have no real answer to offer, but maybe some clues.
    A feminist man can see women as multi-dimensional humans.  A feminist man can not imagine wanting to be in a relationship with someone he does not see as fully his equal.  A feminist man can enjoy competition against women in the same way he can enjoy competition against men.  A feminist man feels no need to punish women for asserting their equality by denying them basic courtesy.  A feminist man understands that human sexuality is really complex and that there can be apparent contradictions between who a woman is in bed and who she is in the world - without making either false.
    That's a small start - have to go now - I'm cooking dinner and my wife is due home any minute ;-)

    "The truth will set you free. But first, it wil piss you off." Gloria Steinem

    by Chico David RN on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:27:49 PM PDT

    •  Beautiful. (6+ / 0-)

      You've seen and appreciated much.

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:38:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you - and a clarification (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tonyahky, arizonablue, Dixiedemocrat

        I want to add to the point I made about competition.  I've always enjoyed competitive sports, but not in the way that many males seem to.  For me, what competition is about is making myself better.  On a number of occasions I've fallen into a hug with a competitor after a hard race, feeling intense gratitude that this other person had pushed me to do more than I would have thought I could.  And, at a pretty young age, I got to have the expericence of competing on a fully equal footing with women.  I was an OK but not spectacular bike racer at a young age and in the same area there were a number of world class women who raced in the mens races.  Beat me almost all the time, which was a really salutary learning experience that would be good for many men to have.  Over the years, I've participated in other sports - whitewater boating, long distance running, rock climbing, where there were plenty of women around who were better than I.  Good learning.

        "The truth will set you free. But first, it wil piss you off." Gloria Steinem

        by Chico David RN on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:53:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'll chain off this most excellent comment (5+ / 0-)

      I'm in school to be a social worker. When I was a kid I wanted to be a psychiatrist because they "fixed people's minds" -- one day I learned all they really do now is prescribe medication. And much like Chico, I'm in classes that are predominantly female, because social work is apparently "women's work". Feh, I say.

      Being feminist and male means I can sit in those classrooms and with female teachers and learn more than what's in the textbook. I can learn what it means to be female and recognize it as a wonderful half of a whole as the population goes -- not in a romantic sense, but in an intimate one. We complement one another well.

      It means when I read a textbook that uses female pronouns instead of male ones, I can find that weird and annoying and realize it's because of my privilege that I find this strange. Then I can learn to accept it.

      It means I can surround myself with strong women who can run circles around me in many different ways, and not feel ashamed. It means they can be my boss and tell me what to do and I can simply heed them without question because I know they are wise and give good counsel. It means they can be my spouse and I can be the one who isn't making the most money.

      It means that when Planned Parenthood was on the chopping block, that I got this feeling in the pit of my stomach that made me want to throw up. I felt betrayed by my representatives for being willing to take away such important rights from women.

      It means I felt the same when representatives in my state started talking about stripping prescription drug and abortion access to minors. I will do all I can to stop them in their tracks.

      I agree with someone's bumper sticker slogan above, too -- it means we recognize that women are, um, people.

  •  The comment "life is unfair..." (4+ / 0-)

    ....is, to me, a total moral cop-out. Of course life is unfair. That's why we have to fight for justice and equality.

  •  Things I would add... (5+ / 0-)

    Why do we socialize our little boys that crying is a sign of weakness?  Why do we socialize our little girls to tamper their anger?  Anger, sadness, are just part of the grand palatte of human emotions and I would say flip sides of the same coin.  You deny a boy crying - he is gonna get mad and act out in a destructive manner.  You deny a girl anger - she is going to internalize it in a self-destructive manner.  All of it is nonsense.  

    Why should the phrase "like a girl" be used to minimize anything?

    "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

    by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:44:20 PM PDT

    •  I don't know... (0+ / 0-)

      All I'll say is that I've been laughed at by women for saying I was a Feminist, I hear women all the time telling me to be more manly, and I hear women complain about their men not being manly--one complained that her bf calls her and tells her he misses her.

      So, yeah, long story short, I think Feminism with a capital F is over, for me and for most women and for men not writing on "progressive" blogs. Supporting women's rights--as well as gay rights and minority rights, etc--still survive as small f feminism.

      And I meant it when I said "long story short"! ;)

      Y'en a pas un sur cent et pourtant ils existent / La plupart Espagnols allez savoir pourquoi / Faut croire qu'en Espagne on ne les comprend pas / Les anarchistes -- Leo Ferré

      by Anak on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:51:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The forces of reaction are still strong. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dixiedemocrat, tonyahky

        Even among women.  I think the children of the 60s and 70s feminists are growing up feminist, but we must remember that there were LOTS of antifeminists in the 60s and 70s.  Their kids, boys and girls, grew up, well, more feminist than their parents, but still LOADED with sexist assumptions.

        However, one effect of the permeation of feminism through the culture is the general acceptance of same-sex marriage among younger people.  Once the assumption of equal rights is sufficiently deep in peoples heads, you just see the sexism in prohibiting it.

        The third generation will feature the grandchildren of the feminists of the 70s, who are going to be going far further than we are in their base assumptions about equality.  Of course, we'll still be dealing with children of right-wingers, who will be about forty years back, culturally.

        Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's _The Great Unraveling_ (available from Google Books). NOW.

        by neroden on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:35:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I agree (0+ / 0-)

          ...though I might quibble with "forces of reaction."

          One thing about DKOS is that most people here are well-educated baby boomers or older. So, the permeation you see in the younger folk accepting same-sex-marriage is concomitant with them accepting porn and so-called "sexual objectifications" of women and men in advertising, say.  And porn and "objectifying" still seem to be a huge problem for second wavers and baby boomers. In other words, the new developments, which we have thanks to Second Wave feminism, at the same time makes the Second Wave sound totally, if not laughably, quaint to most young people.

          Y'en a pas un sur cent et pourtant ils existent / La plupart Espagnols allez savoir pourquoi / Faut croire qu'en Espagne on ne les comprend pas / Les anarchistes -- Leo Ferré

          by Anak on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:56:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ok, since no one seems to like my comments here (0+ / 0-)

            I'll just conclude:

            A "Feminist" man today can look nothing like the Feminist man of Alan Alda's time. Us older folk will just have to deal with it.

            Y'en a pas un sur cent et pourtant ils existent / La plupart Espagnols allez savoir pourquoi / Faut croire qu'en Espagne on ne les comprend pas / Les anarchistes -- Leo Ferré

            by Anak on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:46:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  To me, it's all about bigotry. (7+ / 0-)

    And I define that as failure to judge people as individual human beings.

    I think the absolute worst example of bigotry against women I ever heard was when I was listening to a radio interview with a NASA administrator many, many decades ago, I think just after the first walk on the moon.

    Someone asked this guy if women would every go into space. And he said, "Of course."

    I had one of the purest moments of joy I every experienced in my life, right then and there. Of course! Of course, those female people would go into space. We would walk on the moon, we'd explore the canals of Mars, we go to the stars! Of course.

    My moment lasted exactly one second. Because the next thing out of this person's mouth was "After all, some of these voyage will take months or even years, and men do have needs."

    Men do have needs. Thank you, sir. You have just reduced half the human race, quite literally, to the status of.....toilet.

    What would a non-bigoted man be like? He would see women as human beings. Individual human beings. Not "created" to serve men's needs. Not an afterthought. Not secondary or incidental. Not something to be lugged along as recreation or release  

    Human beings. Individuals. A combination of a thousand factors--intelligence, temperament, knowledge, interests--with one of them being gender.

    My gender does not define me, any more than my race, age or ethnicity define me. Over and above all of these, I am an individual human being.

    There are men out there who realize that. I hope.

    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

    by Sirenus on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:47:48 PM PDT

    •  This reminds me (4+ / 0-)

      of a rather young teacher that substituted my high school government class.

      He said that women could never be president because women have periods and you know how women are on their periods!

      I remember thinking the guy was a "moran" and then going home and telling my very submissive and quiet mother, and she actually grew quite angry and said that men will always use women's periods as an excuse to keep them from doing things.

      Oh, the stories I could tell - like how I was refused in high school to take auto repair, because it was a male's subject.

      And sadly, times really haven't changed all that much when it comes to attitudes.

      •  I took woodworking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tonyahky, arizonablue

        in 10th grade.  The 1st woman in my H.S. to ever take the class.  (Three years earlier I was automatically put in Home Ec.).  Ya know what they say about "Women's pornography?"  - A man pushing a vacuum.  Gentlemen take note---there is nothing that turns us on more than seeing you do household chores.  

        "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

        by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:42:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I am glad that things are.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        arizonablue

        ....starting to change for the better! We just need to keep it going that way.

      •  Some years ago, Newt Gingrich declared that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        arizonablue

        women couldn't serve in combat because of their
        "monthly" problem.

        My sweet but illogical male chauvinist father said, "See! See! Women can't serve in combat."

        I pointed out that despite the "problem" women were serving as police and firefighters. I also pointed out that the "problem" was not actually debilitating, and that I didn't think a woman soldier was going to stand up in the middle of a firefight and yell: "Hey! Boys! Stop a minute. I need to change my tampon!"

        Such a situation had the potential to get a little messy,true,  but then, so does the plight of a man who has the trots during combat. A woman might leak a little blood, a guy with loose bowels might leak a little poop. They could both still pick up and shoot a gun, no?

        By this time, my Dad was beet red. Of course, now, the problem isn't a problem. Women just take a little pill once a day. No problem!

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 07:52:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Okay Sirenus, you get to hear the impetus (4+ / 0-)

      for the timing of this diary tonight.  I've spent 4 yrs. off and on in a relationship w/a man very different than myself.  Simplistic terms - white, male, Catholic, Republican.  Many wonderful things can be said about this man BUT our differences - our coming together and falling apart, again and again, made me realize some things about who I am and what I know and what I will never comprehend.  As you put it - "Men do have needs".  I will never understand male sexuality very simply because I am not a man.  But what I DO understand just from living my own life and from the amount of writing given to it in various religious texts - female sexuality is, IMHO, from an organized religion context, - something to be closely guarded against and controlled.  If you read your basic Judeo-Christian texts - all of them are written in the perspective of female sexuality "very bad thing". Female 2nd sex.  I am a preacher's daughter-not fundamentalist although I've been exposed to that too- but organized religion became a sour pill to me because I have seen too much across the board in "the name of God" that continues the myth of the woman as confined in her role - you can be the mother, supporter the moon to the sun that is the male or you can be a whore.  The whole thing is silly to me.  I differentiate the term "organized religion" from my understanding of Jesus.  Like you said Sirenus, all I want is the respect and recognition that I am a full, breathing, alive human being with all the choices of any other human being.

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:06:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  er, hang on... (0+ / 0-)

        They are NOT Judeo-hypenated anything.

        Texts that are part of the Jewish cultural heritage are not property of Christians, nor are their horrific MISinterpretations to be placed on us in tandem.  You lay that where it belongs please.

        And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

        by Mortifyd on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:44:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The power of female sexuality..... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Toon, Cassandra Waites, Dixiedemocrat

        Has always been terribly threatening to certain kinds of males and especially to religious establishments.  That's why they put so much energy into supressing it.
        Any honest look at the abortion issue in the US tells you that the main driver for the anti-choice forces is the deep seated belief that a baby is a woman's natural "punishment" for having sex and nothing should be allowed to free her from the fear of an unwanted pregnancy.

        "The truth will set you free. But first, it wil piss you off." Gloria Steinem

        by Chico David RN on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:06:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks Chico (0+ / 0-)

          You successfully articulated what I was TRYING to say.

          "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

          by Dixiedemocrat on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 02:22:47 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think I'd disagree. (0+ / 0-)

          I think it's about control. And about property rights.

          Males are perfectly happy about female sexuality. As long as they control it.

          Throughout history, women have been property. Quite literally, property.

          And sex with them is also a property right. An owner's right.

          And so, marriage, where the woman has sex with only one man. Lip service is given to male fidelity, but infidelity by males is a very minor "sin" while infidelity by women is grounds for society-sanctioned punishments that included killing the woman.(Though David both committed adultery and mudered Bathsheba's husband, the crowd demanded that Bathsheba be stoned to death. And have you ever heard of an unfaithful husband being thrown in jail? Stoned to death? Ordered to commit suicide to restore the family "honor"?)

          Men couldn't stop "women's liberation" in this country. They couldn't stop women deciding for themselves who to have sex with. So they did the next best thing. They couldn't enforce exclusivity, so they promoted promiscuity.  

          They pitched, in a thousand subtle ways, the idea that women should have sex casually and constantly. That a woman who wasn't as sex-obsessed as a man was somehow not a real woman.

          So we now have tween girls being told they're weird because they don't have sex. We have Ambercrombie and Fitch selling push up bras for seven year olds. We have idiot mothers giving little girls "virgin" wax jobs. Girls still learning, in a thousand different ways, that the only thing they have to offer is their sexuality.

          Once again, woman as toilet. No value except for sex. The only difference is....now we're expected to be public toilets.

          Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

          by Sirenus on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 08:20:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Different sides of the same coin. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dixiedemocrat

            I was focusing on one narrow aspect of male control of female sexuality - the desire to suppress it.  You focus on another aspect of male control - with which I don't disagree.  Perhaps a better way to have said it would be "Fear of women controlling their own sexuality" - in whatever way they want.  Whether that is to be overtly and promiscuously sexual, to be monogamous, to be celibate.  Female sexuality is inherently immensely powerful.  If a woman controls that herself, she has great power.  But for it to be powerful, it must be entirely hers to control.  And the first step in that control is for her to know that it is hers alone to control.  So male dominated structures want to take that control away.  But in all sorts of ways - whether by enforced chastity, enforced promiscuity or enforced monogamy.
            I'd also wholeheartedly agree that the overt over-sexualization of young women and girls today is deeply sad.

            "The truth will set you free. But first, it wil piss you off." Gloria Steinem

            by Chico David RN on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 11:43:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Saw a clip from a documentary about pregnant (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Dixiedemocrat

              teenage girls.

              A counselor was explaining about childbirth.

              One girl, about fourteen, asked:
              "Does it hurt worse than sex?"

              Talk about sad. To me, that about says it all.

              Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

              by Sirenus on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 01:20:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Well, here's how I see it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Toon

      Women many not necessarily be created to serve my needs. But at the same time, they do a pretty darn good job of it. Heh!

      Where it's sexism versus feminism, IMO, is the difference between what you related to us -- which is that "men do have needs" -- versus "we ALL have needs".

      The feminist side, to me, is just stating that SHE has needs too, dammit. And it's my job to provide for her the same as she provides for me -- this makes US better people. That's the whole concept behind a solid functional relationship to me, that each person has needs and it is the responsibility of their partner to try to meet them, within reason.

      •  I, like every other individual, have a lot of (0+ / 0-)

        needs.

        The need to be respected. The need to be free. The need to learn. The need to make my own choices. The need to experience beauty. The need for political power.

        I need decent food. I need clean air. I need friends. I need music. I need trees and stars and lakes.

        I am not defined by any one of my needs. I am not defined by anyone else's needs.

         I am a human being.  

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 08:31:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  he looks like ... Meteor Blades! (5+ / 0-)

    He is a feminist. He gets it...more so than some of my women friends.

    Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 06:52:04 PM PDT

  •  Male feminists back women's rights. (5+ / 0-)

    And yes, they do cry when they feel like it.  One of the main impacts of sexism on men is the "boys don't cry" thing.

    And there's a damn shortage of us, but more every year.  The children of the 70s feminists are grown up now, and so we're starting to finally see the full flowering of that.

    One key is that male feminists have some personal experience of the oppression of the patriarchy and recognize that it's due to sexism and recognize that women pretty nearly always have it worse.  I'm pretty sure one can't genuinely care without some recognition of how restrictive rules on gender roles and gender-based rules on relationships between people are essentially harmful to everyone except the most abusive.

    I was raised feminist in a good hippie environment.  I don't think I "got it" until I started seeing my friends and family treated worse because they were girls/women, and I don't think I really got it until I went to middle school and started experiencing sexual harassment (from men, natch) for not following the "boy code".

    Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's _The Great Unraveling_ (available from Google Books). NOW.

    by neroden on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:26:47 PM PDT

  •  Another thought about the generational issue (5+ / 0-)

    First generation of men to split household and childcare chores routinely, in any significant numbers, are the children of the 70s feminists.  According to studies.

    It's hard for people to fully break out of the mentality they grew up with, even when they try; their children often are the ones who are able to go the next step.

    At this point, practically anyone under the age of 40 in the US supports equal-pay-for-equal-work.  The fact that it's still not happening is partly down to the stranglehold that a very small number of old patriarchs have on this country....

    ...partly down to people not paying attention.

    Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's _The Great Unraveling_ (available from Google Books). NOW.

    by neroden on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:39:55 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, younger men get it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Toon

      (By younger - I mean younger than me - :) )  Many men I've met who had an absent father and a Mom who worked her butt off to make sure her kids were okay - oh yeah, they get it too.  These are some amazing young men.  Who are the women they bring home to Mom?  Do they respect women who are self-sufficient?  I would suspect most of them do.  

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 07:56:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Male/Female divisions are human inventions (5+ / 0-)

    The idea that men or women do this or that is based entirely on culture. It has nothing to do with the actual person being male or female.

    One of my favorite examples of this, introduced by my Anthropology teacher in college, is farming.

    In some communities, farming was done mostly by women. In other communities, it was done mostly by men.

    People would be apalled and make fun of the "non-traditional" sex doing any farming, calling it "men's" or "women's" work.

    In reality, like just about everything on this planet, it's neither. It's fucking farming. You don't need a specific set of genitals or chromosomes to farm.

    You should do something because you like it, or because you want to. It doesn't determine your sex or sexuality.

    This isn't just "how I view the world", these are facts. The male-female rules are made up by society for whatever stupid reason, usually whoever was controlling things, and vary in all sorts of cultures.

    All kinds of humans like all kinds of different things. Want to talk dating? I have zero interest in dating a "stereotypical American woman" with "stereotypical American woman" interests.

    I'm a nerdy gamer guy, and I need a nerdy gamer girl. Like my girlfriend. We both love videogames, anime, cuddling fuzzy animals, creative outlets (me: writing, her: art). We like a lot of the same movies and comedy/drama series, though I refuse to watch stoner comedies.

    Why would I be upset if she's better at things I like, or is smarter than me about something? I admire that, and it impresses me. Who doesn't like a skilled, capable, intelligent mate?

    Anyway, the main point is I treat women as humans. As equals. If I was a woman, how would I want to be treated? I expect the same performance from a woman, and I give her the same credit and respect. The fact any one person is a woman is irrelevant to me unless I'm dating her or interested in doing so.

    I hold the door for women because it's a nice thing to do, not because she's female. I do the same thing for men. Young, old, whatever.

    I believe women should be given the ability to enter combat roles in the military. It's disgraceful that a woman can be mentally and physically fit for combat, but not allowed simply because she's female. That's pathetic. I'm a coward, I'm male, and I'm not going to fight. I have no problems letting a woman with a warrior's mentality fight my battles for me. It takes a certain kind of person to be a soldier, and that's not me.

    I think it's bizarre that anyone would think of paying a woman any less than a man. I'm not a fool, I know it happens, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

    Why am I like this? It seems like it's common sense to me.

    I've grown up playing video games where women and just about anyone of any shape, size, or color is a valuable party member to your video game team. Female fighting characters, with equal power, fighting not just other women, but men, and the men treating them as equal and serious opponents.

    I've grown up watching female action heroes, reading about their exploits as main characters in fantasy and adventure novels. Movies in particular have come a long way from making the female character a token love interest, insipid damsel in distress, or at best a non-action-oriented support character.

    All examples of women taking the front in "non-traditional Euro-American female roles".

    In summary, these cultural "roles" for the sexes are foolish and self-imposed. People can do what they want. I like cute plushies, especially my plush prinny, and I'm a guy. I also think American sports are stupid. Surprise, I'm still male!

    Gender activity "rules" are toxic, primitive, beneath us, and have no place in a civilized, modern society moving forward.

    It has nothing to do with genetics, and everything to do with surroundings and expectations.

    Women are just as capable as men as doing great things. Fantastic good, wicked evil. Heroic accomplishments, feats of power, bravery, courage. Excellence in academics, discovering and exploring.

    No matter what standup comics or 1980's sitcoms would like to say, women and men aren't really that different. We are, as Agent Jones would say, both "only human."

    •  Damn, your comment made me feel good. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Prinny Squad, Chi, Cassandra Waites

      Kudos to the younger generation who doesn't remember and would think it absolutely ridiculous that in the not so distant past women had 2 career options - nurse or teacher. (Housewife didn't count.  That was a given).  Then you got married in your early 20s or otherwise you were a "spinster".  Prinny Squad - I heart you and your girlfriend.

      "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

      by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:07:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good news for the future, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dixiedemocrat

        the trend has only improved, you know. Not just for video games. This goes for movies and animation too.

        Most kids shows are more likely to feature a cast with mixed gender groupings, where the boys and girls treat each other with respect, because they are friends and teammates.

        Stronger and more prevalent female roles. Not just in action-movie roles, but those too. And I think that is important for young women.

        Speaking of more action oriented series in TV and film (spoiler warning for all clips):

        Kids shows like Avatar, the last Airbender from a few years back (not the movie! The very very good show!), which features a cast of strong females with a varying array of personalities, including a young blind girl who can control the earth:

        And the very-popular-right-now-Clone-Wars, including Anakins young apprentice, and my favorite Dark Jedi, Ventress:

        to super heroes in the new series Young Justice. Female villain ninja vs female archer hero. I like her because she told Kid Flash to shut up. Someone had to.

        And then there is the super popular Harry Potter, with some very strong female heroes and villians.

        These are what young boys and girls are seeing nowadays on TV, even if they aren't fans of video games. Young women are seeing strong, determined, professional, women in all sorts of roles. And young men are seeing it too. Guys like me.

        It's important to also note that it the action and adventure is usually not segregated. Its about being seen as equals.

        And adult movies are no different. I mean you look at these older action/oriented movies, and the females really aren't doing much. I showed you that Matrix clip from years ago. There are plenty more since then, in fact one could argue alien-killer Ripley from Alien started the big push for female action heroes.

        -Warning, R rated clips-

        And if you're looking for something less hardcore, just look to the staggering array of skilled professionals in various crime dramas and medical dramas.

        In video games, well, the skys the limit as well. I could write a novel on strong female characters. You know, in many video games, you can create your own hero, and set them to be male or female. Doing all the same things you could do as the other gender.

        Sexism is still alive and well in America, and around the world. But it is slowly getting better. And media, like what I've shown above, I think is important in destroying that barrier.

        I'd also like to point out here the reverse is just as important: while we show young girls how courageous and strong they can be, we should also be showing young boys that it is okay to be sensitive and empathic. There is nothing wrong with a guy crying for sadness or joy.

        As a guy, I'm totally fucking sick of the "be a man" American meme. But that's getting off topic, this is about women.

        In conclusion, women can do a lot more than be a nurse or a teacher. In my experience, women can be police, mercenaries, soldiers, vampire killers, magicians, adventurers, superheroes, scientists, hackers, jedi, knights,  martial artists, lawyers, politicians, boxers, firefighters, ninjas, space marines, and more.

        Okay well vampires and Jedi aren't real, but you get the idea.

    •  Nice comment!! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Prinny Squad, Cassandra Waites

      You riff on something that I also mention in my comments above, and that is the experience of competing with and against women as equals.  That was truly rare in my generation, more common in yours.  You talk of competition in gaming, which is after my time as the saying goes, but the experience is analogous to mine with sports.   And I think it's something that may have a more profound effect than a lot of folks realize.  Old Title IX turns out to be a very important thing.  Letting women have the experience of being powerful and accomplished in an athletic environment and letting men have the experience of seeing them that way is very useful.
      Society at large has always identified competition, and especially physical competition as a male thing.  When both men and women have the experience of women succeeding in that arena, on whatever terms, it's transformative.

      "The truth will set you free. But first, it wil piss you off." Gloria Steinem

      by Chico David RN on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 08:18:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You and your comment rock! :)n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Prinny Squad

      ♥ Medicare For All. ♥
      "Our health care system is like a casino. The insurance industry is the House... The House always wins." -- UnaSpenser

      by Chi on Mon Apr 11, 2011 at 09:04:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not sure what one looks like (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dixiedemocrat

    but I think he's nerdy, artsy, conversational and more than likely intelligent.

    I'm married to a musician [inter alia] and he's got very nerdy tendencies and likes pretty things and loves his pug dog I bought for him and doesn't want a big dog. When we had horses he used to go out and give them liberal butt scratchings and baby talk them.

    He's not totally fem, he wipes his face on my kitchen towels, ruins clothes when he gets involved in a project and is wound pretty tight and can get prickly and refuses to read directions until he's forced to. He does do dishes, wash clothes and clean house.....not to my standards but he does do it, so I've learned to lower mine or do things over. He changed diapers. He cooks, not consistently and usually stuff our children won't eat. He likes stupid TV like Project Runway, is glued to the cooking channel, but hasn't changed his menu from his signature goulash projects.

    He's very smart. He thinks I'm smarter, especially when there's something he wants done and I'm the perfect candidate for the job. He's the master of changing the conversation with a non-sequitur.  He's definitely male, but he's got a feminine side for sure. He thinks I have a decidedly male side, which I do. So it works.

    He would be perfectly comfortable and relieved possibly if the entire SCOTUS was empaneled with Liberal women. Most of his friends are similarly 'girly' and we have a good time pointing that out. They and we are amused by it.

  •  A feminist man leaves the toilet seat down (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dixiedemocrat

    and makes sure its clean.

    Obama: At least he gives a good speech.

    by Permanent Republican Minority on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 01:09:40 AM PDT

  •  this perspective might be... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dixiedemocrat

    ...a little different.  (I'm male incidentally.)

    What if a "feminist male" not only understands and embraces that women generally are... and therefore generally should be his equal: politically; economically; socially; etc. He assumes 'created equal' and 'equal opportunity' are genuinely the ideal.

    He understands in evolutionary terms, that change has been occurring very quickly across the planet in the past 100 years. He knows intuitively that women will soon control the planet, (Koch brothers aside), and that when they do... our civilization will become, generally, less competitive and more cooperative.

    And...

    ....his thinking goes beyond the past century's pop-topic frame-works.

    The "feminist male" recognizes there exists a significant difference between the essence of masculine and the essence of feminine as something that is substantive and not necessarily anatomical. The difference being something spiritual in nature... (think about what 'attraction' is... beyond just body parts) and he is able to embrace & appreciate the more important difference in that... just as genuinely as he embraces and appreciates social, economic and political equality (?)

    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~ George Orwell

    by fromcascadia on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 06:20:44 AM PDT

    •  What a "masculinist female" looks like... (0+ / 0-)

      was the comment I did not write... but would have.. if I had more time this morning.

      "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~ George Orwell

      by fromcascadia on Tue Apr 12, 2011 at 06:38:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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