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Not that he says so in so many words, but listen closely to when he talks about what happened when they asked KSM about the courier.

Hayden: The lead information I mentioned a moment ago did come from high value detainees who were held at Black Sites against which Enhanced Interrogation Techniques had been used.

No, it would sound like he's saying here that using Torture was how we got the information - but notice he said "Had been used".  Most of us who've been paying attention know that these techniques were abandoned in 2005 after the CIA Inspector General stated that they were ineffective and most likely illegal.

The real trouble began on May 7, 2004, the day the C.I.A. inspector general, John L. Helgerson, completed a devastating report. In thousands of pages, it challenged the legality of some interrogation methods, found that interrogators were exceeding the rules imposed by the Justice Department and questioned the effectiveness of the entire program.

That is why the program was shutdown in 2004.  

But as we go on Hayden argues not that they received the information during the torture or even that the purpose of the techniques was to specifically extract information, rather it as to "move them to a mode of compliance". The Torture program was shutdown in 2004, and they didn't even know about the courier until 2007.

But then, just how compliant were they really?

Hayden at 4:20: We went back to [KSM] and he and another detainee were so demonstrative - atypically - demonstrative in rejecting knowledge of this individual that, that in itself turned into lead information. If he had not been largely cooperating with us, this would not have been anomalous behavior.  

In other words both KSM and al-Libi LIED about not knowing the courier, and simply because they Over-acted so badly they suspected something was up?

And they only noticed this because KSM was largely cooperating?

No, KSM wasn't "Cooperating" - he admitted during a Gitmo hearing that he was Making up Stories during that entire time.  In other words he was telling you what wanted to hear - but when it came to really valuable and serious intel like the guy that could lead them to OBL, he wasn't "compliant" - even after being waterboarded 183 times - he LIED.  He was playing you.

Fortunately, and to their credit they disregarded what KSM actually said and looked closer at these leads anyway.  Hayden said it, Hayden Admitted it.

Torture doesn't work. When the Rubber met the road They Lied, Period.

Vyan

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