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Chris Wallace, the Fox News commentator, repeatedly made the point, in the form of a question, that torture must be OK since we went in and summarily executed bin Laden.

Of course Donilon, being a high level government official, botched his response, trying to justify the execution of bin Laden, and then equivocating his aversion to torture.

Chris Wallace would have none of it, and attempted to coerce Donilon to agree that torture was ok. Had Donilon agreed with Chris Wallace he would have lost his job of course, and Fox News would have trumpeted that to the world.

I guess Chris Wallace condones torture. I suppose his paymasters condone torture

Chris says "...why can't you do waterboarding...?"

If you want to know what I would have said to Chris Wallace, please continue reading.

This is what I would have said to Chris Wallace, since I don't have to worry about keeping my job.

"Chris- Here's why you can't waterboard people:

You cannot waterboard because waterboarding is torture.

Barbarians may torture, but we are not barbarians.

Torture is absolutely immoral.

Not only is torture absolutely immoral, torture is a slippery slope.

Once a government starts to torture, then it tends to move on to mass murder.

As an example, check out the Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot regimes. Those leaders started with torture and quickly moved on to mass murder.

I ask you Chris Wallace, since you seem to think torture is OK, then do you think mass murder is ok?

Frankly Chris, even using the old "torture doesn't work argument" is too fucking weak for me.
I don't give a shit whether torture works or not, I just know that I am not a torturer and I won't ever condone torture because it is barbaric and WRONG.

Not only that, Chris, but FUCK YOU for supporting torture, you barbaric fucking pig."

Then I would take my mic off and throw it in his face and spit on the sonofabitch.


Would you condone torture even if you didn't know it led to mass murder?

30%7 votes
69%16 votes

| 23 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

    •  That's why you don't have a TV show. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      evanaj, twigg

      If you lose your disc or fail to follow commands, you will be subject to immediate de-resolution. That will be all.

      by SpamNunn on Sun May 08, 2011 at 05:48:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I haven't heard anyone yet from the Obama team (0+ / 0-)

        actually commit to the fact that torture (water boarding) did not play a role in tracking down OBL.

        They seem to alway hedge their answer to that question. The one I hear the most is what Donilon said - there were a lot of little pieces of info that was put together to find him.

        No one has given a straight forward "No. Water boarding and/or enhanced interrogation had nothing to do with the capture."

        I'm still waiting for this answer from someone in authority.

        I'm not trying to justify torture - just want to know whether it worked in getting info from detainees/combatants.

        Progressives will win when we convince a majority that they, too, are Progressive.

        by auapplemac on Sun May 08, 2011 at 06:14:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  even simpler: (0+ / 0-)

      For the same reason you can't practice human sacrifice with cannibalism in order to bring rain for crops.

      Thereby associating waterboarding with human sacrifice and cannibalism, and subsuming the "it doesn't work" arguement within the context of the "it's morally abhorrent" arguement.

  •  To stop torture as the law, policy and practice (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, dougymi, twigg

    of the United States, it is necessary to get people on your side, to convince them of that which they want not to be true; I don't think yelling and throwing things is the way to convince people.

          Standing for justice and accountability,
                              For Dan,

    Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it to whom.

    by Chacounne on Sun May 08, 2011 at 06:06:54 PM PDT

    •  Yelling is, at times, appropriate. (0+ / 0-)

      Spitting on people, on the other hand....

      It's surprisingly hard to have a reasonable conversation with a person who considers you a cockroach and publicly fantasizes about killing you with neurotoxins.

      by JesseCW on Sun May 08, 2011 at 06:14:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Torture is also... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pyegar, AnnieR, twigg

    ...known to be entirely ineffective.  There's a very good reason that torture is the preferred tool of totalitarian regimes:  It's great for beating false confessions out of people.  For real, accurate information it sucks, badly.  Torture victims will tell the torturer exactly what they think they want to hear.

  •  Waterboarding Used To Be A Crime..... (0+ / 0-)

    At least America thought it was when we said so in the Tokyo War Crimes Trial.

    Actually.....we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American POWs as a result of that trial.

    Since Dick & Liz Cheney were never in the military & haven't had the "opportunity" to undergo waterboarding.....perhaps they should volunteer for l83 sessions like KSM had to endure.  Then we could check back w/ them & see how they feel about waterboarding then.  


  •  The waterboarding lies... (0+ / 0-)
    After being waterboarded, 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admitted knowing someone later found to be Osama bin Laden's courier. The CIA eventually located the man and followed him to the house where bin Laden was killed. Voila! The information from Mohammed vindicates these methods.

    But it turns out that Mohammed also lied about the courier, saying he was a retired nobody. From this, CIA officials now claim, they knew the guy had to be a big deal. It was a crucial clue.

    That's right: When tortured detainees provide truthful information, they prove torture works, and when they lie, they prove it works. If Mohammed had broken into a chorus of "Y.M.C.A.," that would have proved the same.

    This bizarre reasoning is one of the many oddities about the defense of torture. Another is that the advocates never, ever refer to it as torture.

    Mark Thiessen, a former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, wrote a column for The Washington Post defending what he called "enhanced interrogation techniques." Former Justice Department official John Yoo referred to them as "tough interrogations."

    Torturing for truth

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