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This might be my favorite part of the whole mess Rep. Paul Ryan has gotten his party into over their plan to end Medicare: it's not really a bad plan that everybody hates, it's just misunderstood. Really, it's all just a messaging problem, not the wholesale rejection of conservative ideology.

A day after a crushing defeat in a New York special election, House GOP lawmakers defended their vote to reform Medicare but grumbled that their leaders must do a better job of messaging.

"If we'll just stay with our argument and do a better job developing it, we'll be fine," said Rep. Tom Cole (Okla.), one of many Republicans blaming GOP candidate Jane Corwin’s loss on the presence of a Tea Party candidate who siphoned away votes in a three-way race....

"I think we need to be stronger in marketing who we are and our message, and not just Medicare but in every aspect—with the jobs situation, with the economy, with national security. That's what we need to do," freshman Rep. Allen West (R-Fla, [torturer]) said....

One source familiar with the internal discussions over the Ryan budget plan described members as frustrated that their leadership failed to prepare them for the outrage they have heard from constituents in their districts over the Medicare changes.

"Members know that you don't piss off senior citizens, and they know that this was handled badly, that there was no messaging, that Ryan's not making his case and they are all looking down the road thinking, 'Oh my God, it's coming,'" the source said.

Yep, all a matter of messaging. That's the only problem with the plan. Just tell seniors you're "saving" Medicare and all will be well. So you stick with it, Republicans. In fact, double down on it, just like Ryan did yesterday.

Tell seniors that they should be paying for their own healthcare, and near retirees that they should lose all that money they've paid into the system for their whole working lives for the "greater good" of the private insurance companies. That's what "saving Medicare" really means, and it's a winning message, so just keep at it!

All the way to November, 2012.

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Comment Preferences

  •  None of these Republicans have elderly relatives? (23+ / 0-)

    If they had ever had the experience of trying to help an elderly parent remember to take their prescription medicines, keep a checkbook, or fill out Medicare reimbursement forms, they would not be proposing to send Seniors out with vouchers to evaluate various health insurance plans from our friendly insurance industry.

    Even PhDs in the prime of life can't figure those out! Let alone elders who are beginning to have failing health and failing cognitive faculties.

    These proposals are shockingly brutal and cruel in a way that no commentators I've encountered have adequately described.

    It is like sending lambs to a slaughterhouse and calling it a pasture.

    Skepticism of all the elite institutions, not trust, is what required for successful leadership in this era. Digby

    by coral on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:26:42 AM PDT

  •  Why don't they try this message: (14+ / 0-)

    "It's not shit-it's ice cream"!

    ...and dropping a bar bell he points to the sky, saying "The sun's not yellow-it's CHICKEN!"

    by porchdog1961 on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:26:59 AM PDT

  •  The Rs have plenty of $$ (10+ / 0-)

    to spread lies, so we cannot let up.  We have to finish them off now we have them down.

    CitizenX: "If the republicans were in charge GM & Chrysler would be dead and Osama bin Laden would be alive."

    by TomP on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:28:29 AM PDT

  •  Lawrence O'Donnell (17+ / 0-)

    had Mark McKinnon on yesterday, who's one of the few repubs I thought had half a brain.

    He said he believed the repubs should stick with Ryan's Medicare plan, and need only to learn how to "sell" it better.

    Repubs, no matter how moderate, simply cannot be rehabilitated.

    This is such a losing strategy, and I'm thrilled to pieces they're sticking to it.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - MLK

    by edwardssl on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:29:25 AM PDT

  •  Well you see (13+ / 0-)

    your house had a fire and the only way to save it is to tear it down.

    But it was a candle light that fell on the floor and put a small burn mark in the carpet.  Can't we just replace the carpet.

    Exactly.  So we will tear down your house and then you will have a new house.

    But I just said I just need to replace the carpet.

    Great!  So demolition will begin tomorrow.

    But wait!  Even if I agree to tear down my house who will build a new one.

    I don't understand the question.  We will tear down your house and then you will have a brand new one.

    But...

    Sorry.  I have to go.

    "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

    by newfie on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:31:34 AM PDT

  •  Newt Gingrich's campaign died for their sins (8+ / 0-)

    No one else wants to throw themselves onto the pyre.

    Unplug the Koch machine! It's swallowing people's money!

    by Seneca Doane on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:37:03 AM PDT

  •  It's always a messaging problem. (12+ / 0-)

    R's don't address anything but winning elections, photo-ops, framing and messaging.

    They are a self fulfilling disaster when it comes to governing.  Being wealthy doesn't make you an expert in anything, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

    I think that Republicanism is revealing itself as a personality disorder, not so much an ideology." -- Naomi Klein

    by AllanTBG on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:39:42 AM PDT

  •  more soap opera: "Ryan's (a) Dope" (7+ / 0-)
    Tell seniors that they should be paying for their own healthcare, and near retirees that they should lose all that money they've paid into the system for their whole working lives for the "greater good" of the private insurance companies. That's what "saving Medicare" really means, and it's a winning message, so just keep at it!
    Non nobis solum, pro bono. Ave Dictator perpetuo!

    I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above join the DAILY KOS UNIVERSITY "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

    by annieli on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:40:45 AM PDT

  •  As a stand alone issue, it's a winner. (7+ / 0-)

    But I always pair it with the tax cuts for millionaires.  

    Because I like messaging.

  •  Please, oh please (13+ / 0-)

    let the Democratic party take this issue and pound them into the everlovin' metaphorical sand with it. Take no prisoners: do unto them as they would do unto us if we were equally stupid.

    Shout it from the rooftops, and keep shouting it: "The republicans want to reduce taxes for the rich, and pay for it by stealing the funds working Americans of all ages have been paying into these systems for your entire working lives".

    These programs are not entitlements; they are earned benefits that have been paid into for years with the promise that they would be there for us when we retired. Only one party wants to reneg on that promise: we need to bury them, and I mean bury them, with this.

    Regrettably, the Democratic party leadership could screw up a one-car parade, so I'm not holding my breath. But there is still some hope...

  •  tax cuts for rich and privatizing medicare fits (6+ / 0-)

    together beautifully;

    Say a billionaire is working the drive thru lane at K of C and with this new tax break she realizes a influx of 20 million. Such a windfall allows her to go from full time to part time thereby freeing up a part time job for an eighty year old who has to supplement his two thousand dollar a year health care voucher (after medicare privatization) in order to pay for a thirty thousand dollar hip replacement. Get it?  

    •  Quality job creation is a beautiful thing. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      briefer, singe
    •  Yin - Yang. Yada - Yada. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      singe

      Join us at the Amateur Radio Group. Serving the Left Side of the Dial since 2011.

      by briefer on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:00:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  calling CQ, CQ, CQ come in please (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        briefer, Matt Z, Creosote

        My best friend from childhood who became a Marine, was at the siege of Khe Sanh, who came back joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (started by Kerry??) and got arrested at the May day anti war demo in DC just about forty years ago to the day was a ham radio nut when we were like 12years old. We'd go into NYC and he'd rummage through the army surplus stores on Cortland Street where the World Trade Towers were later built. I was never smart enough to even think about taking the test for an operators license but I'd sit in his bedroom smoking cigarettes we stole from his mom and listen to him go CQ,CQ,CQ over and over into the night. He died back in 1993  and i really appreciate you reminding me of him.

        •  Excellent story (except for the death)... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          singe, Matt Z, Creosote

          Yes, I believe there was a whole area they tore down called "Radio Row" or some such thing.  I've heard you could buy just about any type of radio or part there, back in the day.

          By the way - you're smart enough to pass the license tests.  If I am, you are.  They're "multiple guess" tests now instead of essays.  Also, the FCC no longer requires Morse Code for any license.

          73 [best wishes]

          Join us at the Amateur Radio Group. Serving the Left Side of the Dial since 2011.

          by briefer on Thu May 26, 2011 at 01:41:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  By the way... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          singe, Matt Z

          Here's some info on licensing at The ARRL's page.

          You can use their material to study, or there's a ton of free material out there, like free online tests, with answers. and study guides.

          Get on the air!  Your buddy would be proud.  :)

          Join us at the Amateur Radio Group. Serving the Left Side of the Dial since 2011.

          by briefer on Thu May 26, 2011 at 01:48:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'll give it some thought. got a friend coming up (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            briefer, Matt Z, Creosote

            from those days who is really disabled but lives in a studio apartment filled with vacuum tubes.... he catches the radio show from australia in the morning and from...canada in the evening for the old radio shows....you are really taking me back to my roots. i remember stringing copper wire from tree to tree in my buddies yard with his mom screaming about lightning in her house coat.....

            •  Ha! I've been in many trees. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Matt Z, Creosote

              Sounds like my mom.

              I still use just a single wire antenna running through my attic and down to a fence post.  I talk all over the world with low power.

              Lots of disabled people use ham radio.  They can easily develop friendships all over town (local ham clubs can be pretty friendly and helpful to noobies), and all over the world on the air.  The ARRL has a whole section devoted to disabled hams.

              Contact me (briefer) by message if you'd like to get started or have any questions.

              Join us at the Amateur Radio Group. Serving the Left Side of the Dial since 2011.

              by briefer on Thu May 26, 2011 at 02:35:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Well Of Course They're Correct. (6+ / 0-)

    Look at the whole 35 year rollback of New Deal economic and regulatory policies.

    All of this was against the interests of the people, but the people repeatedly voted the backrollers into office because of good messaging.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:46:23 AM PDT

  •  Let's not get complacent. (10+ / 0-)

    The GOP is brilliant at messaging. Totally without ethics, but brilliant. Remember, they can afford to hire the best propagandists money can buy.

    They took a decorated war vet and made millions of Americans see him as a traitor and a coward.

    They took a few words in the healthcare bill--mandate, government, end-of-life--and convinced millions that government bureaucrats would harass old people into commiting suicide.

    Snark and laughter is all very good....but we're going to hate ourselves when they get to doing what they do best--lie!-- and they're believed.

    And we're going to really hate ourselves if we blow it in 2012, because we got cocky...instead of staying serious and on target.

    Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

    by Sirenus on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:47:17 AM PDT

  •  Verbing; then verbing and argot will do it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    Perhaps this is left over from Michael Steele, and they meant "massaging" is the problem.

    It would make more sense.

    It would explain how House members were shocked... just shocked!... that they would face opposition over vouchers for Medicare.  Perhaps they need to be proactive in the advanced planning stages for their realization of notable objectives of the mission statement?

    Everyone is innocent of something.

    by The Geogre on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:47:43 AM PDT

  •  I really don't understand this (5+ / 0-)

    Bush tried this. He failed, even with all the 9/11 fear mongering and Yellow Alerts.

    I always knew the base was out to lunch. And I always knew the party was cynical as could be. But now they are just being stupid. By their own yardstick.

  •  It all makes sense now. (13+ / 0-)

    Let's say you're a senior citizen who is having a heart attack. Right now, you call 911 and a ambulance comes and takes you to a nearby hospital where Medicare will pay most of the cost of your treatment and hospital stay. Now, under the Ryan plan, you would be empowered to hop on your Blackberry and solicit bids from a variety of hospitals and doctors before choosing the most cost effective treatment for your heart attack, saving literally hundreds of dollars on a hospital bill of tens of thousands of dollars. After you're forced to sell your home and most of your possessions to pay the hsopital bill, you'll be proud of your sacrifice to drive down the cost of healthcare through free market principles. Ryan will even throw in a copy of Atlas Shrugged for you to read in your new home, a cardboard box under an overpass.    

    •  yeah, can you feel the power, Grandma? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG, happymisanthropy, Treg, Matt Z

      ...the power of FREEEEEEDOM!*

      *the freedom to work until death and still have absolutely no access to affordable healthcare.

      "An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war." -Mark Twain

      by humanistique on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:03:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I cut my finger in November, badly. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Treg, Matt Z, Creosote

      My old insurance policy required that you get pre-approval for emergency room care unless you were at risk of dying or permanent disability.  So I made my husband CALL the insurance co. (a different one than we used to have) to find out if we needed approval before I went.

      Do you think they could even friggin' figure it out?  They tried to tell us to go to a 24-hour urgent care center.  WE DON'T HAVE those here.  He spent almost an hour on the phone before we finally just went to the ER.  

      So I'm having a heart attack and I'm gonna solicit bids?  Holy shit, don't bother even calling the insurance company, they won't know what to do!!!

      I woke up this morning only to realize, it's opposite day again.

      by Melanie in IA on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:36:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  HAHAHAHAHAHA (7+ / 0-)

    They think that seniors are selfish just like them.  They are soooo stupid.  Most seniors are not selfish, they came from the greatest generation and were people who knew how to sacrifice for the greater good.  Now the spoiled and selfish republicans cant understand why seniors wont buy the shit sandwich they are trying to feed them.  

    Seniors may be older, but they arent stupid.  They dont want those selfish asshats to destroy or tear down everything their generation has built for future generations.

  •  Messaging is overrated (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ahumbleopinion, Antacid, Matt Z, Creosote

    and frankly the emphasis on the importance of messaging is an error that both the right and left make.  I'll just re-post a comment I made on a diary yesterday:

    The political beating the Republicans are getting over their plan to gut Medicare, even with their supposedly superior "messaging," I think gives lie to this notion that many progressives bought into that all you need is good messaging and you can sell any reform or program to the American public.

    This was a complaint I heard over and over again during the health care reform battle, that the only reason why the health care bill was unpopular was due to faulty messaging by Democrats, or bad salesmanship, or the fact that it wasn't radical enough, that somehow it would've been more popular if single-payer or Medicare for All had been proposed instead.

    The very fact that the Republicans are taking a political beating over their Medicare plan, despite their superior messaging and despite how radical their plan is, shows that in the end messaging or sufficient boldness aren't as significant in determining the popularity of a particular reform proposal as the American public's overall distaste for big change of any kind.

    For in the end, that is the common denominator between the political suffering of Republicans over their Medicare plan and the suffering experienced by Democrats over the health care bill.  It's not bad messaging - everyone generally agrees that the Republicans are the masters of messaging - rather it's the very fact that this year's Republicans and the Democrats of 2009-10 both proposed big changes of some kind, and in both cases the American people made clear they don't like big changes.

    And lest you think this is just a fluke, we saw the same thing when Bush attempted to privatize Social Security in 2005 and Clinton attempted health care reform in 1993-94.  Say what you will of Bush and Clinton, but their political operations were masters of messaging.  Nevertheless, they both failed in enacting their respective reforms for pretty much the same reason the Republicans' Medicare plan and the Democrats' health care reform encountered such strong opposition - because the American people generally don't like big change.

    The mere fact that the Affordable Care Act passed at all becomes even more significant an accomplishment in light of the extraordinary difficulty in enacting big changes of any kind today and throughout recent history.

    "I used to try to get things done by saying `please'. That didn't work and now I'm a dynamiter. I dynamite `em out of my path." - Huey Long

    by puakev on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:49:25 AM PDT

  •  Amazing how they keep doubling down. GOP must be (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg, happymisanthropy, tmo, Matt Z, Creosote

    really terrified of teabaggers in primaries.

    •  The Tea baggers were the best thing that ever (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      happened to the Democratic party.  The Tea baggers, as dumb as they are, unmasked the ugliness of the GOP for all to see, .
      Even the uninformed, who usually don't know what is going on, all of a sudden perked up when their ears caught wind of someone saying they are going to kill medicare.  Uh-Oh ! They can't do that ! Hey Frank, get your walker and let's go.   Where do we vote ?  lolololol.  Oh happy days are here again !

      •  Eh... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z

        the teabaggers are a large part of why the Repubs have a large House majority and this crazieness can happen at all. A moderate, electable Republican party interested in actual policy debate would likely be better on balance because it would force the Democratic party to govern more to the left. I'm not going to be able to relax until the debt ceiling gets raised, tbh.

  •  Yeah, it's a messaging problem, (7+ / 0-)

    just like Charles Manson needs to get a haircut and then he'd get paroled.
    The Republican's problem is that they've actually begun to believe their own lies.

    When I was young and naive, I thought that Republicans wanted the same things for America that Democrats did, but just thought there was a better way of achieving it. Now I know better. Republicans are evil fucking dicks.

    by jazzmaniac on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:50:07 AM PDT

  •  Yes, please... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z

    Dear Republican Party: Yes, please. Just stick to your message. Keep repeating the message. The more you do that, the more the People will truly understand what you're really trying to do.

    And THEN you'll be screwed.

    Yes, please.

  •  I find myself using the words (4+ / 0-)

    "stupid fuckers" more and more each day.  The words may be losing their impact.

    "The bass player is always right"

    by BigOkie on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:50:30 AM PDT

  •  iraq was a messaging problem (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, Matt Z

    that's why they kept up these silly PR things.

    George Bush is Living proof of the axiom "Never send a boy to do a man's job" E -2.25 S -4.10

    by nathguy on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:51:27 AM PDT

  •  Stick To It, Boys! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, tmo, Matt Z

    Double down on the double down......But keep this message front and center: We are going to fuck you straight up if you elect us and let us shred Medicare! And then, we will go after your Social Security. That's us, the Republicans!

  •  It ain't the pitch. . . it's the product (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sue B, TofG, happymisanthropy, tmo, Matt Z

    I doubt the GOP will ever learn, which is fine by me in this particular case.

    At this point, I'm prepared to beg Paul Ryan to keep talking.

    They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time. -- Brian Fantana

    by IndyScott on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:52:19 AM PDT

  •  I just watched a few minutes of Ryan's video... (8+ / 0-)

    ...and, to his credit, it does a fairly clear job of making his points in simple language.

    The problem is that his basic premises are wrong, because he's trying to apply the same business model used for selling cars or blenders to healing the sick.

    If you're looking to buy a new blender, you'll shop around until you find a quality brand, with the features you want, at the best price. If it breaks or performs poorly, you either return it for a refund or you just never buy that brand again and badmouth the company to your friends.

    If you're really sick or injured, you don't usually have much time to shop around, and you can't exactly get a refund on a wrongly-diagnosed disease or badly-done appendectomy (unless you sue the doctor/hospital for malpractice, which is a whole different situation).

    Furthermore, his point about Medicare "masking" the true cost of healthcare from the end patient is somewhat valid--except that the same thing is true in the private insurance industry as well. His example might hold some weight if everyone paid the full cost of their healthcare directly to the healthcare provider (the doctor/hospital), but that's the whole point of insurance--the bulk of the cost isn't paid to the healthcare provider, it's paid to the insurance company, which in turn...masks the true cost of services rendered, since they're not the ones actually providing the services.

    •  One other major difference... (5+ / 0-)

      He (and the whole GOP) keep wanting to apply the basic "law of supply & demand" model to healthcare.

      If the demand for a given product goes up while the supply remains the same, the price goes up accordingly.

      If you're diagnosed with cancer or get stabbed in the kidney, then yes, your "demand" of the "product" goes sky-high, because without it you'll die, or at least suffer in agony for weeks on end.

      According to the "law of supply & demand", you're fucked--the doctors/hospitals/insurance companies can, and should, charge you whatever the hell they want to to fix your problem. As the elderly population continues to grow, they "should" be able to suck everyone dry, since that's what "the market" dictates.

      The only problem with this is the basic moral concept that healthcare shouldn't be a for-profit service in the first place. That's the crux of the difference between the parties on this issue.

    •  Not only that.... (6+ / 0-)

      People can live their whole lives without a blender, as I've done. You can choose NOT to buy the blender. Who among us would choose to forgo medical care completely if we were ill or in an accident?

      That's why the free market model doesn't work for health care. You can't shop around if you're bleeding to death, and you can't choose not to buy the product if the only alternative is death.

      The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

      by Korkenzieher on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:09:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I WANT them to be good at messaging! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    I want them to be VERY CLEAR about what they stand for!

    * Tax cuts for the rich

    * Tax cuts for giant corporations

    * Gutting & privatising Medicare

    * Gutting & privatising Social Security

    * Corporate welfare for defense contractors

    * Anything else that makes rich men richer

    The invasion of Iraq was a war crime, a crime against humanity, and a crime against civilization. Prosecute the crime.

    by Positronicus on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:53:44 AM PDT

  •  Of course it is! (0+ / 0-)

    Has absolutely nothing to do with the GOP Death Vouchers at all.

  •  After looking at this chart (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sue B, TofG, ahumbleopinion, Matt Z

    Over at TPM, one can see Republican priorities pretty well summed-up. Its's also quite plain to see there are other ways of attacking whatever problems Medicare and SS may have down the road... Namely, let the Bush Tax Cuts die and get the f*** out of two costly, overseas wars.

    I think most Americans would agree doing just those two things are a wee-bit more preferable than handing out "health-care vouchers" to Grandma and wishing her "good luck!" as she tries to buy meaningful healthcare with it on the open market from sadistic, uncaring health insurance companies.

    Oh, and allowing the Federal Government to negotiate drug prices wouldn't hurt either, but the Pugs don't want their wealthy buddies at Big Pharma to suffer, so they've been blocking that, too.

    We just need to stay on-message and hammer some of these simpler and vastly more sane messages home.

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:55:04 AM PDT

  •  This is what happens when Republicans believe (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sue B, TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z

    their own rhetoric. They are shocked when they find out that people disagree with them. The disconnect is more than they can bear.

    I think it was Harry Truman who said:

    I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.

    We're telling the truth and they don't like it at all.

    "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    by atlliberal on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:55:06 AM PDT

  •  Great news (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z

    I'm thrilled they still don't get it.  They can lie all they want about "saving Medicare" and nobody is buying it.  The only messaging problem going on is that there aren't major elections for another year and a half.  When 2012 comes the voters will send their own message loud and clear: HANDS OFF MEDICARE!

  •  Bureaucrats (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z

    The only bureaucrats involved in the health care system that scare me are the ones motivated solely by profit. Is Paul Ryan going to deal with those people, who'll deny granny medical care if it harms the bottom line of the corporation who employs them?

    No. I didn't think so.

    The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

    by Korkenzieher on Thu May 26, 2011 at 11:56:54 AM PDT

  •  imagine how bad things would be for them (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z, Creosote

    if Democrats had a GOP-style messaging machine.

    This is all damage coming from their own sales pitch.

  •  Works for us too (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, Matt Z

    Problem for them is that an elephant never forgets

  •  If morally bankrupt Republicans... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z

    ...like Pete Sessions (TX-32) and snake oil salesmen like Paul Ryan have to lose their jobs because they want to gut Medicare and replace it with a voucher program, then sobeit. No matter how much lipstick they put on this pig with their "messaging," it's still a pig as far as I'm concerned.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by alaprst on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:00:37 PM PDT

  •  Lets go Republicans. That is the way to go ! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, Matt Z

    Just improve your message.  When the 2012 elections role around the Democrats will be reminding all the voters of this and you are going to loose big time.  If you keep this shit up, I will not even have to think about your political future.
    The people themselves might storm the halls of Congress.
    The GOP are absolute morons. Did it ever occur to these geniuses that older retired folks are on limited income because they don't work.  If you make them the victim of the insurance cartel, they will not have enough money to buy health insurance.  Of course it occurred to them, but they just don't care because it is not their family. And there you have the primary characteristic that defines the GOP; they are selfish, greedy and disrespectful of others - in other words, EVIL.  Well, without all due respect, you guys (the GOP) are all PRICKS; you always were PRICKS, and you will always be PRICKS

  •  I was totally persuaded by the video. But (4+ / 0-)

    it was all a lie.  He told them that the gummit would give them money to go out and buy guaranteed coverage.

    He didn't tell them that the money they receive may not be enough to buy a plan that provides coverage equivalent to Medicare.

    He didn't tell them that, even if the gummit opened up the federal treasury and gave seniors all the money they needed - many/most seniors are inherently uninsurable on the open market.  You can't find a plan, at any price, and you can't force insurers to offer it.

    He didn't tell them that they were also going to be repealing Obama's rules regarding "preexisting conditions" so that, if you were able to buy a plan, they wouldn't have  to cover you for that heart condition, or etc. etc. etc.

    He didn't tell you that, to have any chance of providing  "guaranteed coverage" for sick elderly people through private insurers, that the Ryan Plan would HAVE TO INCLUDE AN INDIVIDUAL MANDATE!!!!!!!!  Otherwise, the insurers will simply say thanks, but no thanks to that bridge to no-where.

    So, yes, it is all messaging.  If you lie and rely on magic and miracles and obfuscation for your message - you can create some pretty neat powerpoint presentations.

    Join us at the Amateur Radio Group. Serving the Left Side of the Dial since 2011.

    by briefer on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:10:42 PM PDT

  •  In my book... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, Matt Z

    ...what Ryan is doing is putting lipstick on a pig. The problem is no matter how much lipstick he insists on putting on this pig, it's still a pig and will continue to be a pig between now and November 2012. They can call it messaging, but I call it putting lipstick on a pig.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by alaprst on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:13:24 PM PDT

  •  Senior Health Insurance Coupons (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, happymisanthropy, Matt Z

    Will they come in the sunday papers?

    " we could go all day with the issues "

    by East Village Blue on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:15:34 PM PDT

  •  Right! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, Matt Z

    The Republicans must find a way to make the idea of seniors paying way more out of pocket for medical care seem like a good thing!  There must be some combination of words that will convince them!

    Good luck with that, baggers.

  •  Who CARES about "bureaucrats" in the way? (0+ / 0-)

    There's ALREADY too many damned things in the way of you and your doctor: traffic when you drive there, no parking spots, possibly security to get in, crowded elevators, the front desk people, sometimes a nurse to take your vitals, and finally, the waiting room.

    "You can't run a country by a book of religion. Dumb all over, a little ugly on the side." Frank Zappa

    by Uosdwis on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:27:24 PM PDT

  •  Big Dog, Durban on board with cuts? (0+ / 0-)

    Big Dog was caught encouraging Paul Ryan backstage in Aspen.  Durban also attended.

  •  Ryan says seniors should be paying... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, Matt Z, Creosote

    for thier own healthcare....

    But what no one seems to be mentioning is that THEY ALREADY HAVE PAID FOR IT.  

    We all have.

  •  Will we receive a check for the amount paid in? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Creosote

    Will we receive a check for the amount paid in?

    If not then the Republicans are guilty of fraud.

    Charge them under the law.

    F*ck those idiots and the voters they rode in on.

    by roninkai on Thu May 26, 2011 at 04:40:14 PM PDT

  •  Remove all (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    Remove all benefits from Congress.

    How long will it take for these old, hypertensive, old (yeah, I said it twice), doughy, white dudes to find insurance on there own?

    Maybe there should be a test were they can try to get coverage, and see ho that goes.

    F*ck those idiots and the voters they rode in on.

    by roninkai on Thu May 26, 2011 at 04:43:15 PM PDT

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