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John Boehner
Boehner blusters. (Reuters/Larry Downing)

While the House GOP continues to try to find a messaging strategy out of their Medicare debacle, they are keeping with the attack from the left on Democrats, insisting that Democrats are the only ones who have voted to cut Medicare.

You remember this twist; they're revisiting the "Mediscare" strategy that worked for them in 2010, telling seniors that the cuts to Medicare Advantage in the Affordable Care Act were the real Medicare cuts. That Democrats are more responsible for cutting Medicare than the 235 Republicans who voted this April to gut it. Yesterday, Speaker John Boehner started the attack in earnest, with this claim:

"The only people in Washington, DC who have voted to cut Medicare have been the Democrats" said Boehner, "when they voted to cut $500 billion in Medicare during Obamacare."

His spokesman doubled down on that statement, sending this to Greg Sargent:

"The Democrats’ health care law siphoned more than $500 billion away from Medicare into an unsustainable new entitlement—that’s a Medicare cut. Now, they are insisting on the status quo, which means Medicare’s bankruptcy and steep benefit cuts. In contrast, the House-passed budget, the 'Path to Prosperity, makes sensible reforms to preserve and protect Medicare for the future."

Sargent:

This moves the argument one step further, and takes the GOP attacks on Dems from the left to its ultimate conclusion. Not only did Dems vote to cut Medicare when they passed the health care law, but they are also proposing still more cuts to Medicare, in the sense that doing nothing will mean more benefits cuts later. After all, we know Dems are willing to cut Medicare because they've done it before.

By contrast, the Ryan plan—which we are told is necessary to reduce spending—is "reform." And that reform is designed to prevent Dems from getting away with more cuts.

Republicans are conveniently ignoring the fact that the Ryan budget preserves the Medicare Advantage cuts from the ACA, "virtually the only part of 'Obamacare'—the term that Republicans use derisively to describe the health care law enacted last year—that the Wisconsin Republican preserved when he drafted his budget." And ignoring the analysis of the CBO that says seniors would have to pay a substantial portion of their own healthcare costs, i.e. would experience a benefit cut, under the Ryan plan. And ignores the Ryan's own words, that seniors should have to pay for their own healthcare.

But ignoring reality has worked for Republicans for a long time, so why shouldn't it continue to? Particularly, as Sargent warns, if Democrats end up caving into Republican hostage-taking on the debt ceiling and deficit. "History shows, of course, that they've made this argument successfully before. Of course, if Dems agree to deep Medicare cuts in the Biden-led deficit negotiations, then we'll all call a truce. Right?"

Yeah, right. If a bargain is made, then of course the Republicans won't use Medicare cuts against Democrats. We all know how much you can trust a Republican promise. Like that whole "we'll only filibuster judicial nominees in 'extraordinary circumstances'" thing.

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Comment Preferences

    •  Medicare is the gauntlet. (21+ / 0-)

      Democrats cannot afford to waiver on Medicare.

      None.

      Even if the government gets shut down, the key to 2012, possibly in spite of gas prices and the economy, is Medicare.

      Let's hope Democratic legislators figure this one out.

      To a Democrat, "democracy" means "free elections." To a Republican, "free markets."

      by XOVER on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:38:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •   cannot afford to waiver on Medicare (8+ / 0-)

        You got that right. I don't see how they can afford any negotiating at all on it without the GOP using it against them. For this time around, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security need to stay completely, 100% OFF the table. Period.

        Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

        by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:41:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can't be a little bit pregnant (0+ / 0-)

          You've either cut medicare or you haven't.

          If the Dems cut anything from Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security, I know the Reds around here will simply say:

          "They're all the same. They're all on the take"

          And if you think the anger at the Repugs was bad, think what it will be when the champions of Social Security cave.

          Change anything about MMSS at your peril.

          In a world of the blind, the one eyed man is a pariah. Ask Galileo. Ask Darwin.

          by OKParrothead on Fri May 27, 2011 at 07:31:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  They'll cut a deal (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vacantlook, Anorish, wsexson

        Obama views his job as one of conciliation.  He will consider a deal with republicans to cut medicare as more successful than standing firm on medicare and destroying republicans politically and electorally.

        "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

        by Subterranean on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:53:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  ALSO (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bay of arizona

        The statement ignores the fact that similar spending cuts targeted to Medicare actually predate ACA, even though those cuts are enshrined in the ACA (unfortunately). But both prior to ACA and since, Congress has funded the difference between Medicare reimbursement under the old formula and the formula under the new formula.

        Thus there has never been an ACTUAL cut to Medicare reimbursements. In other words, while Democrats have voted for cuts to reimbursement, they have also voted to exempt reimbursements from those cuts.

        I know this is almost an impossible thing to message, but that's not my job.

        No one ever created a vibrant economy by building houses for each other. Houses are built because there is a vibrant economy.

        by Doug in SF on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:05:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  correction (0+ / 0-)

          CUT AMOUNT under the new formula....

          No one ever created a vibrant economy by building houses for each other. Houses are built because there is a vibrant economy.

          by Doug in SF on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:06:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Here's how you message it: (5+ / 0-)

          They say you are not entitled to Medicare; we say you are. They want to give you coupons; we want every American over a certain age to have health insurance. They want to give government money to the private companies that give them money; we want the money you've paid into Medicare to cover your medical bills, and not to go to enrich insurers.

          You don't get into the weeds on this thing. Once you start the tit for tat, you end up just where we don't want to be: the hoary details. The bottom line on those details is Democrats are more likely to protect Medicare while Republicans have already shown they will rip it out of your hands and give you a coupon.

          I didn't intend the above as a factual statement.

          by Bensdad on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:22:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  That's just using the same stupid rhetoric (8+ / 0-)

      that the Republicans pulled last year with the Affordable Care Act.

      Can we treat the American public like adults and just state the clear truth:  "The Republicans just all voted to end Medicare and turn it into a limited voucher program for our seniors, payable to the insurance companies"?

      •  First, it is not the same, because it is true (5+ / 0-)

        Republicans do want to kill grandma.  

        Republicans want gut Medicare, that is they want to gut Hospital Insurance, Medical Insurance, Medicare Advantage plan and Prescription Drug plans.   Medicare gives Grandma the medicine she needs to live.  Take away grandma's medicine, and she dies.  It gives grandma a bed in a hospital when she is sick.  Take away the bed and she dies.  It gives grandma the operation she needs.  Take away the operation, she dies.

        Republicans do want to kill grandma. It is not stupid rhetoric.  It is the same rhetoric that Grayson uses, and he is right to do so.

        Second, even though the Republican LIED to scare people, their efforts succeded.

        You go talk your nice politics with your nice friends.  Leave the real politics to people like Grayson and me.

        •  Oh boy! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amk for obama

          Don't get into Grayson talk with me as you will not be happy.  Can we just please treat our voters like adults and state the facts instead of Republican scare slogans.  It doesn't work with our 1/3 Independent voters in Florida...coming from either party.

          "The Republicans just all voted to end Medicare" and turn it it into a limited voucher program, payable to insurance companies works down here in this moderate state.  (especially when Rubio is lying and stated that he voted "save Medicare" by killing it...somehow)

      •  "killing Grandma" gets confusing when neither (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TofG, auapplemac, amk for obama

        party details why and they both are accused of doing it.  (Democrats falsely)  It leads to uninformed, confused voters believing both parties suck without the details.

        •  No, it is an accurate framing (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TofG, GreatDane, Matt Z, Anorish

          I just explained.  They want to take away life-saving medical assistance to seniors.  That will result in deaths.  They know that.  They are bad people.

          •  Why would you want to use the same (3+ / 0-)

            rhetoric that the Republicans used (since they had no facts) instead of stating the facts that you just outlined?

            •  Probably because many people can only follow (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Anorish, Plubius

              a short phrase when it comes to politics. This is not a new discovery. It used to be called a "sound bite." While Dems are trying to explain the nuance and give facts to back it up, Republicans hold voters attention and win votes by  repeating the sound bite.  Can you put Plubius' argument in a sound bite?

              Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

              by RJDixon74135 on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:13:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Because "Don't kill Grandma" fits on a bumper (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Matt Z, Plubius

              sticker.

              "We must hang together,...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."

              by GreatDane on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:15:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I agree and disagree. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Anorish, Brooke In Seattle

              We need to be careful about "Killing Grandma." That's a shade too close to the "Death panels for Grandma" lie. I think it would confuse people.

              And I don't like the "Push Grandma over the cliff" ad. It's too snarky. We don't want to make people laugh. We want to show them a touch of grim reality, and it should look as real and as plausible as possible.

              So..."Grandma"

              Show a thin, elderly woman in a dim, worn kitchen, in front of a window with a cracked pane mended with duct tape. Show her ladling soup into a bowl, first one ladle, then another....except she hesitates, then puts the second ladlefull back into the pot.....taking a slice of bread out of a bread bag....then tearing it in two and putting half back. Then show her sitting at the table, with a open pill container and two pills in her hands....and she puts one pill back in the container.

              Voice over: "How do you decide? An extra bit of bread, a little more soup..... or the amount of medicine you truly need? Is this what we want for our mothers and fathers, our aunts and uncles, our grandparents?

              Sound of wind. Close shot on the end of the duct tape on the window crack, coming loose and flapping. The old woman's hands use scissor to cut off the loose part and press a new length of tape across the gap.

              Shot of the old woman, standing in front of the window, scissors in one hand, a roll of duct tape in the other. She looks at the duct tape. Close shot: There's very little left. She puts both tape and scissors down and puts her hands over her eyes.

              Voice over: Don't betray their trust. Don't let the Republicans gut what honest people worked for decades to earn. Vote to preserve Medicare and Social Security."

              Don't make voters laugh. That's good in a lot of situations. But for this....we need to break their hearts.  

              Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

              by Sirenus on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:30:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Again, is is not the same (0+ / 0-)

              They lie.  

              There is nothing wrong, and indeed a lot right, with boiling down complex concepts into simple, but not simplified, phrases that convey an essential truth from a particular perspective.

              FDR did it with, amongst many, our Good Neighbor Policy with  Latin America.  He did not talk of non-intervention and non-interference in the domestic affairs of Latin America, or of reciporacal exchanges between us, or of new economic oportunities.  FDR did not talk of moving away from our previous policy of colonial bullying and predatory capitalism.

              Nope, he spoke of being a good neighbor. And EVERYONE knows that a good neighbor is one who helps his neighbor, because its good for the nieghborhood.

              FDR was not hesitant to use such similar encapsulating rhertoric when it suited him: he talked of money lenders, and Fat Cats, and plutocrats skrewing over the common man. He could be as vicious as anyone, but always did it with that smile.  

              I am sorry that such strong language offends you.  But that is all your objections really comes to.

              Well, I am not loath to do so, because they really do want to kill grandma, and turn me and you into servile paupers, grateful and the chance to catch a  few farthings tossed from their guilded carriages.

        •  It's also insulting to many seniors. I am not a (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mjd in florida, wsexson

          "grandma!"

          And, what about grandpa? Is it OK to kill him.

          Progressives will win when we convince a majority that they, too, are Progressive.

          by auapplemac on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:12:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why would any Democrat want to use (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            auapplemac, wsexson

            the same and stupid rhetoric that the Republicans used... especially when that phrase is already embedded in brains to oppose the Affordable Care Act?

            •  I would do something even simpler: (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mjd in florida, auapplemac

              Democrats are the party that fought to give you Medicare. Why in the world would we take it away?

              Whatever you hear Mr and Ms America, just keep that fact in mind: the Democratic party will fight for your Medicare. We always have.

              © grover. My sockpuppet is a furry blue muppet.

              by grover on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:45:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Perfect! (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                auapplemac

                So many on the left want to emulate what goes on from the right... and all of it offends everyone in the middle, especially in a "swing" state or "swing" district. (such as carpetbagger Alan Grayson and his nasty rhetoric and offensive "Taliban Dan" ad against his opponent that had previously been a long term rep in that area... Grayson's antics were played on loop with corporate money to represent all Dem's in Florida as radicals...he seriously hurt others)

      •  The truth takes more time than a lie. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Plubius

        What the GOP is pitching is the most effective kind of propaganda......the half-truth twisted into a whole lie.

        Why? Because you just can't say, "That's a lie." It takes time to explain it, to provide the background info, to show how and why the GOP twisted it into a lie. And in an era of ten second sound bites, getting a nuanced, long-form message to the people is tough.

        That's why we just can't ever get complacent. We can't say, "That's stupid. No one wil believe that."  We need to work hard at getting our messages as short and succint and memorable as possible.

        Remember, the GOP can afford to buy the talents of the kind of people who persuade millions to buy overpriced products that don't even perform as promised....and buy them over and over again.

        Don't call the lie masters or their lies "stupid."  Wrong, yes. Illogical, yes.  But not stupid. Because these people are brilliant at lying. Absolutely brilliant.

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:09:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It always breaks my heart when Jon Stewart has (0+ / 0-)

          some right wing propagandist on, who then runs rings around Stewart with half truths and willful misinterpretation.

          The most recent example was that asshole religious nut who's been claiming that this country was founded on Christian principles and the founding fathers meant for there to be a religious government. His tactics are pretty standard: ignore the mountains of evidence and context that refute your point, jump on some obscure fact that seemingly supports your point, strip it of context, then add your own doctored context and present that one fact as the end all, be all proof of your point.

          Even if you understand that his conclusions are all wrong, it takes an expert to know where the holes in his story are and explain to the audience the context and willful misinterpretation.

          When that guy talks about letters stamped "In the year of our Lord" and how that "proves" that the founders were super religious, Stewart wouldn't know that that was a general form of address and indicated nothing of the religiousness of its writers. Stewart gets stuck, the guy looks more credible and takes a victory lap. It's really frustrating to see.

        •  "Republicans all voted to end Medicare" (0+ / 0-)

          any Democrat that uses the "kill Grandma" sloganeering will be confused and associated with the dissing of the Affordable Care Act.

          •  Or "You earned it. They want to take it away." (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mjd in florida

            No silly commercials about throwing Grandma off a cliff. Let's treat the voters like adults, but at the same time, appeal to their emotions.

            Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

            by Sirenus on Fri May 27, 2011 at 05:39:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  No, we can't treat the American public like adults (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Anorish, OKParrothead

        Because the GOP has spent the last 30 years dumbing them down with cuts to education and racial hysteria. To the point that half the public unquestioningly believed that Obama really did want to pull the plug on grandma.

        Short, simple phrases really is the only way to spread the message. Hopefully, the targets of our message will ask follow up questions and for detail and backup. Then we can start engaging them in a real "adult" conversation.

        But until then, we have to pique their interest with short, simple (yet true) statements, like "Republicans just voted to kill Medicare; Democrats are saving it" or "Republicans just voted to kill Medicare, but are claiming that they're saving it. I don't know many doctors who claim that they had to kill the patient in order to save it".

      •  I agree that rhetoric is bad but only.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mjd in florida

        ...because it makes us look like copycats. America hates that.

        I do agree that saying Republicans want to rip Medicare out of your hands and give you an IOU you can take to an insurance company.

        I didn't intend the above as a factual statement.

        by Bensdad on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:24:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Repubs Cut Program Benefits Democrats Cut HC Costs (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mjd in florida

        Cost savings is something the Republicans are not familiar with or even interested in.

        For them, it is more efficient to just take it out of the hides of those least able to bear up under the sacrifice and least able to punish them politically by withholding their hundreds of thousands of dollars of political spending.

        The Republicans are the party of no-bid contracts, billions in unaccoutable waste, crony capitalism, political boondoggles, Big Pharma Windfalls and  sweetheart deals.

        Look at what they did with Medicare D (prohibiting the government from using its group-purchasing power to negotiate discounts - that's what they define as free market?)

        Look what they did under the "war on terror."
        Look at what they did in Iraq.
        Look at what they did during the BP Gulf Oil Spill.

        ObamaCare* is designed to save money not cut benefits. (In fact, it expanded benefits and cut out-of-pocket costs for seniors.)

        ObamaCare is designed to look for and stop wasteful and unnecessary medical test and treatments. (Through the workings of an independent board - the only way such action will be taken because the Congress is subject to too much political pressure to do the right thing - very similar to the reason the BRAC process was created by which domestic military sites are closed.)

        The New York Times (this week) and the New Yorker (a couple of years ago) both have excellent articles that illustrate the potential for saving money in Medicare without doing it on the backs of seniors, with the potential of both reducing program costs and possibly funding better pay for the tests and services that are truly necessary.

        Squandering Medicare’s MoneyBy RITA F. REDBERGPublished: May 25, 2011

        ...Medicare pays for routine screening colonoscopies in patients over 75  even though the United States Preventive Services Task Force, an independent panel of experts financed by the Department of Health and Human Services, advises against them (and against any colonoscopies for patients over 85), because it takes at least eight years to realize any benefits from the procedure. Moreover, colonoscopies carry risks of serious complications (like perforations) and often lead to further unnecessary procedures (like biopsies). In 2009, Medicare paid doctors more than $100 million for nearly 550,000 screening colonoscopies; around 40 percent were for patients over 75.

        • The task force recommends against screening for prostate cancer in men 75 and older, and screening for cervical cancer in women 65 and older who have had a previous normal Pap smear, but Medicare spent more than $50 million in 2008 on such screenings, as well as additional money on unnecessary procedures that often follow.

        • Two recent randomized trials found that patients receiving two popular procedures for vertebral fractures, kyphoplasty and vertebroplasty, experienced no more relief than those receiving a sham procedure. Besides being ineffective, these procedures carry considerable risks. Nevertheless, Medicare pays for 100,000 of these procedures a year, at a cost of around $1 billion.

        • Multiple clinical trials have shown that cardiac stents are no more effective than drugs or lifestyle changes in preventing heart attacks or death. Although some studies have shown that stents provide short-term relief of chest pain, up to 30 percent of patients receiving stents have no chest pain to begin with, and thus derive no more benefit from this invasive procedure than from equally effective and far less expensive medicines. Risks associated with stent implantation, meanwhile, include exposure to radiation and to dyes that can damage the kidneys, and in rare cases, death from the stent itself. Yet one study estimated that Medicare spends $1.6 billion on drug-coated stents (the most common type of cardiac stents) annually.

        • A recent study found that one-fifth of all implantable cardiac defibrillators were placed in patients who, according to clinical guidelines, will not benefit from them. But Medicare pays for them anyway, at a cost of $50,000 to $100,000 per device implantation.

        The full extent of Medicare payments for procedures with no known benefit needs to be quantified. But the estimates are substantial. The chief actuary for Medicare estimates that 15 percent to 30 percent of health care expenditures are wasteful. Medicare spending exceeded $500 billion in 2010, suggesting that $75 billion to $150 billion could be cut without reducing needed services.

        Annals of MedicineThe Cost ConundrumWhat a Texas town can teach us about health care.by Atul GawandeNew Yorker

        The Medicare payment data provided the most detail. Between 2001 and 2005, critically ill Medicare patients received almost fifty per cent more specialist visits in McAllen than in El Paso, and were two-thirds more likely to see ten or more specialists in a six-month period. In 2005 and 2006, patients in McAllen received twenty per cent more abdominal ultrasounds, thirty per cent more bone-density studies, sixty per cent more stress tests with echocardiography, two hundred per cent more nerve-conduction studies to diagnose carpal-tunnel syndrome, and five hundred and fifty per cent more urine-flow studies to diagnose prostate troubles. They received one-fifth to two-thirds more gallbladder operations, knee replacements, breast biopsies, and bladder scopes. They also received two to three times as many pacemakers, implantable defibrillators, cardiac-bypass operations, carotid endarterectomies, and coronary-artery stents. And Medicare paid for five times as many home-nurse visits. The primary cause of McAllen’s extreme costs was, very simply, the across-the-board overuse of medicine.

        This is a disturbing and perhaps surprising diagnosis. Americans like to believe that, with most things, more is better. But research suggests that where medicine is concerned it may actually be worse. For example, Rochester, Minnesota, where the Mayo Clinic dominates the scene, has fantastically high levels of technological capability and quality, but its Medicare spending is in the lowest fifteen per cent of the country—$6,688 per enrollee in 2006, which is eight thousand dollars less than the figure for McAllen.
        ...

        *ObamaCare, aka  Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) - at least by a very small minority of wonks.  I use the ObamaCare name because there's nothing wrong with either the name itself or its public recognition.  In our best Luntzian practice, we should take it back, make it our own and make it a losing proposition for the GOP to use it.    YMMV.  

        We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

        by Into The Woods on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:40:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  killing Medicare saves SS benefits (0+ / 0-)

      The Repos don't have to attack Social Security directly. If they can take away her healthcare, Granny will "die quick".  It's the Far Reich's Ultimate Solution to the Granny Problem.

  •  Just go home and face the music dudes..... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, happymisanthropy, beltane

    You fucked up...Get over it!!

  •  The only reason Dems cut Medicare (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    (not Medicare itself but the expensive Medicare Advantage private insurance program that was supposed to save money) was to get a better CBO score.

    They would have been better off having the ACA increase the deficit than touch Medicare at the same time.

    "There’s nothing courageous about asking for sacrifice from those who can least afford it and don’t have any clout on Capitol Hill."

    by bay of arizona on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:33:23 AM PDT

    •  Cutting Payments to Big Insurance Companies/HMOs (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brooke In Seattle

      is not the same as cutting Medicare beneifits to seniors.

      Republicans cut the Medicare benefits that seniors are entitled to under the program.

      We save money by lowering costs.  

      That's creating savings by asking the big HMOs to live within their means when operating as an agent of the Government under Medicare Advantage.  

      We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

      by Into The Woods on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:44:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And, that's not necessarily easy to explain (0+ / 0-)

      For so many years, people have heard the Republican creed -- competition in a free market makes everything less expensive -- they've really come to believe the seeming logic of it despite their own experience.

      If you don't like being screwed by your health insurance company at 35 or 45 or 55, why would you like it more at 65 or 75?

      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

      by RJDixon74135 on Fri May 27, 2011 at 12:41:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The only thing GOP won't use to pay for Medicare (0+ / 0-)

    is tax on those who benefit the most from what America is.  America is too expensive for millionaires.

  •  Republicans are banking on stupid voters (7+ / 0-)

    In the past they could usually count on low info voters to support them.  I think most people are a lot less stupid when it comes to this issue.  People are waking up and beginning to realize what they voted for in 2010 and are getting a big heap of buyers' remorse.  NY 26 was a harbinger of things to come.

    can we all...just get...along-Rodney King

    by nspguy on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:38:25 AM PDT

    •  Republicans Are Also Banking on the Duck&Cower (0+ / 0-)

      wing of the Democratic party to assert its influence and whisper in the ear of Congress and candidates to not "over-reach".

      What we need to remind them  that "under-reaching" for the ordinary people is what the Duck&Cower wing is really advocating, which is "over-reaching" for the High & Mighty.  

      Knowing the difference will be the difference in 2012 between winning and losing for Democrats.

      We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

      by Into The Woods on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:48:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  OK, so Dems obviously responded to this bull shit (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    costello7, Subterranean, wsexson

    ineffectively (not at all?) before. What are they going to do differently this time? If the answer is "nothing" then why should they think things will go any differently this time. FSM help us.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:38:39 AM PDT

    •  Not sure if you've been following the news... (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW, TofG, sja, davelf2, Matt Z, Into The Woods, Dustee

      But Democrats have been attacking Republicans on Medicare.  A lot.  If I recall, they just won an election in a conservative district by doing so.  So I'm not sure where the pessimism, on this issue, is coming from.

      •  Yes, I'm fully aware of where things are (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        costello7, TofG, OKParrothead, wsexson

        with Dems attacking the GOP, the over 70% disapproval of the Ryan plan, the role the Ryan plan played in Hochul's victory, despite what the GOP says.

        My concern is that GOP lies will win over Dem truth. It's been know to happen. The GOP tells their lies 1000 times a second to our telling the truth 10 times an hour. They fight harder than we do.

        They are dredging up a lie that worked for them once and I do not for a second take for granted that it can't work for them a second time. It shouldn't work a second time, but there's no guarantee it won't. They are professional liars and manipulators.

        Dems cannot be complacent about this at all. They need to call lies lies and speak the truth, 24/7 from now till Nov 2012.

        Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

        by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:56:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So what exactly would you have them do differently (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TofG

          in this case?  I mean really, Democrats are attacking Republicans on the issue, and all you can say is "do it more?"

          It's a funny thing on this site... We talk over and over again how the conservative viewpoint in the media drowns out the progressive one, and then we get baffled as to why Democrats telling the truth on issues doesn't work.

          "It's been know to happen."  Yeah and it's been known to happen the other way too, which is why I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here.  I have seen no reason that they will give up the issue other than the fact that they have done similar things in the past.  They have also defended Medicare in the past.  No shit.  It's a winning issue.

          •  Yes, I am saying "Do it more!" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            buddhistfist13, OKParrothead

            Here's my message to Dems.

            Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything -- except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose, and we're gonna kick him in the ass. We're gonna kick the hell out of him all the time, and we're gonna go through him like crap through a goose!

            That how we will win in November of 2012. Am I really asking for too much? :-)

            Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

            by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:14:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree, to a point... (0+ / 0-)

              And that's a great quote.  But here's is why I don't blame the Democrats for not attacking the issue day in day out... They want it to be an issue in 2012, for that very reason: It's incredibly popular.  I actually don't think they should make any big push on the attack right now... They should save that ammo for the election.  People hearing too much about Medicare now could mean that they are tired of it in a year.  As long as the issue keeps poking its head until then (and Democrats continue to point out the fact that EVERY [save 4] Republican in the house voted to PRIVATIZE Medicare), that shouldn't be a problem.

              My main point is that we get way too pessimistic on this site sometimes... But on the other hand it is sometimes that pessimism that makes sure that Democrats stay on the right track.  So yeah, on this issue, I do have complete faith that Democrats will defend these social institutions... There is no reason not to, unless you buy in to the fact that they are serving their corporate overlords, or whatever.

              •  I understand and agree with what you're saying. (0+ / 0-)

                Pacing ourselves, timing is important nd all that. But when it's time to fight, then by god fight like hell. Fight like lives depend on it, because, in fact, lives do depend on it!

                And yes, I am as guilty as anyone for at least occasionally being too pessimistic, but it's sort of a hope for the best, plan for the worst kind of thing.

                As for complete faith in the Dems, some yes, some not so much. I know we can count on folks like Anthony Weiner and Al Franken. Guys like Steny Hoyer? Not so much. And Dick Durbin is scaring the hell out of me.

                Gotta head out. Will check to see if you have any further response in an hour or so.

                Oh, and glad you liked the Patton quote.

                Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

                by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:32:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It's the problem with a progressive activism site (0+ / 0-)

                  When a guy like Durbin or Hoyer says their dumb things, we worry that it is what the Democrats truly want: To weaken SS and Medicare.  When Obama or Pelosi or whomever defends the concepts of these institutions... Well, then they are just pandering, or whatever.  Any possibility that it could be the other way around?  Don't get me wrong, this totally makes sense, it's how humans tend to think, and like I said, is probably kind of a good thing to always be a little skeptical.

                  I have a theory on Obama's methods (and by extension the Democrat's) that I think people dismiss as 11th Dimensional Chess or whatever (as if Obama is using string theory to defeat Republicans), but I think that these two points are valid: That Obama campaigned specifically on ending "left v right" and focusing on "good v bad."  And that this is a great thing for progressivism because when people focus on the specific policies, not whether they are "right" or "left" our positions win out time and time again.  Republicans have played perfectly in to this, and the Ryan Plan is a direct result of the "shifiting the Overton Window" style of thinking: We propose a far right plan, they propose a center left plan, we end in the middle.  I think it's safe to say at this point that that has completely backfired... People are talking about the issues, yes, and the issue here is that the Republican's plan is totally and completely unpopular.

                  Barring any huge blunders, this is going to be a fun ass election for our side, and it is because a) the Republicans have put themselves in that corner and b) even if Obama is a corporatist-in-chief or a sell out or a capitulator...  He's still one hell of a campaigner.

                  •  I read your Wednseday diary on this (0+ / 0-)

                    and enjoyed it very much. Most unfortunate that it didn't draw the attention it truly deserved. Might I suggest you consider reposting it at some point?

                    As for "barring any huge blunders" I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.

                    As for fun on our side? If Dems "go through them like crap through a goose" at the appropriate times, then yes, that will be fun, though it's in my nature, even when maintaining a positive or even a confident attitude, to be at least a little nervous.

                    Even if Dems do everything right and the GOP digs deeper into stupidville, the thing we may not know until the election is over is the extent to which recent GOP voter supression legislation will be effective this time around. We're not going to be lucky enough to have other Governor Daytons to veto that bull shit.

                    Part of Dems plans need to include making sure all of our registered voters have a photo ID. This will be no small task and it will cost money, but we leave this to chance at our own peril.

                    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

                    by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 01:05:10 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Yes, which is why I'm glad Obama's at the top (0+ / 0-)

                      of the ticket... If nothing else, his guys know how to win an election.  Any Republicans?  Those with the best shot are waiting for 2016.  That nervous feeling is good and it makes sure we stay focused but it also gets us worked up over issues that in the end are not as large as they appear.  I'm looking at our current landscape way more optimistically than most here at this site, and I might be wrong, but I think Obama is very careful about how he approaches issues, and he is very careful not to press issues too actively, at least at an "optics" level (like he doesn't attack Republicans nearly as much as we would like).  People here see this as "ceding ground" but I very much disagree... He has consistently come out looking like the most reasonable man in the room, like a statesman, and that will only help him sell his message in 2012 and beyond.

                      Thanks for the comment on that diary... Just wrote a new diary about my thoughts on Medicare. Put in a poll this time, give the people what they want I guess...

                      •  Do you not think voter supression legislation (0+ / 0-)

                        is worth getting worked up over? I'd love to hear from someone who knows enough about it to offer an informed opinion that this is nothing to worry about. But I don't want to hear it unless it truly is an informed opinion based on sound reasoning and realiable data.

                        Any thoughts on this?

                        Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

                        by JTinDC on Fri May 27, 2011 at 03:16:06 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I'll admit I don't know much on that (0+ / 0-)

                          beyond what has happened here in MN... But what I will say is that if it will hurt Democrats chances in 2012 in a significant way, I'm sure Obama's team is working on it... Because as I've said, even if he is secretly corrupt or a bad leader or whatever, he still knows how to win an election.

      •  Remember NY CD 26 !!!! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buddhistfist13

        Hochul's message was clear as a bell on this issue.

        She followed the basic advice I will continue to give to all Democrats:

        Fight against proposals that supermajorities of the people oppose:  Cuts to Benefits under Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid.

        Fight for proposals that supermajorities of the people support:  Increasing Taxes on the Wealthiest.

        Change the #1 priority of our economic and trade policies from producing profits for globe-trotting millionaires and billionaires to producing jobs for the middle class and lower income Americans.

        These positions are not the sum total of what we believe, but they illustrate the principles for which we will fight.

        Standing firm for these positions illustrates that we have the courage of our convictions to fight for the principles in which we believe and the people we were elected to serve.

        Here's what Rep. (soon) Hochul said:

        Tonight’s victory is an achievement many called impossible.

        Tonight we showed that many voters are willing to ignore a party label and vote for the person and for the message they believe in.

        We showed that thousands upon thousands of voters are more powerful than millions of dollars in outside money.

        We showed that our grassroots army – including thousands of donors and thousands of volunteers, who knocked on more than 53,000 doors and made more than 77,000 calls and over the last four days –could overcome our enrollment disadvantage and the fact that we were outspent by more than 2-to-1.

        You have all shown me, and this campaign, so much support.

        We have shown that with forward-thinking vision, with new leadership, and the right issues behind us, we can make real change for the future.

        We can help Western New Yorkers get back to work by helping small businesses create jobs.

        And we can balance our budget the right way—- not on the backs of our seniors——but by closing corporate loopholes for companies that ship jobs overseas, and ending subsidies to Big Oil and yes, by making the multi-millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share.


        And we can ensure we do not decimate Medicare.
        We will keep the promises made to our seniors who have spent their lives paying into Medicare, so they can count on health care when they need it most.”


        http://www.kathyhochul.com/
        http://www.kathyhochul.com/...

        We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

        by Into The Woods on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:59:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  A Lie By Any Other Name - Say So! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JTinDC, burlydee

    The title of this blog is misleading.  The GOP is not doubling down.  They are Lying, Say So!

  •  No, the R argument makes sense: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Subterranean, TofG

    they are discounting the possibility of Medicare continuing, so they aren't really killing it, it's already dead.

    It's the same thing they do with SS: they tell thirty year olds they won't get any SS anyway, so as far as they are concerned, they can't blame the GOP regardless.

    In the eighties, Bob Dole said something to the effect of "Newt's all for new ideas. He doesn't HAVE any. He's just FOR them". Listen five minutes to Newt and you'll see it's still true.

    by Inland on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:43:44 AM PDT

    •  Makes Sense If You Buy Their Lying Premise (0+ / 0-)

      But not otherwise.

      If lies were fries, the Republicans would have McDonalds beat.

      But if say we should order our Big Mac's from Boehner, Cantor and McConnell does that mean it makes sense?

      We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

      by Into The Woods on Fri May 27, 2011 at 12:04:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right. But it's all they have. nt (0+ / 0-)

        In the eighties, Bob Dole said something to the effect of "Newt's all for new ideas. He doesn't HAVE any. He's just FOR them". Listen five minutes to Newt and you'll see it's still true.

        by Inland on Fri May 27, 2011 at 06:05:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Those Medicare Advantage programs the GOP likes (5+ / 0-)

    are a way for insurance companies to milk money out of the Medicare program.  The one thing health insurance companies are good at is cherry-picking -- finding the good risk people who aren't likely to run up big health care bills, and selling overpriced insurance for them.

    As a primary care doctor who takes care of people who might get sick, I've seen how the insurance companies work.  They tell patients, "You can see any doctor you want in our program."  The "in our program" doesn't apply to the patients; it applies to the doctors.  
    When they've accidentally enrolled people who are high risk, they're happy to let them 'disenroll' before they get sick.  Conventional Medicare gets left with a sicker patient population because the Advantage programs have picked over the group of over-65's and taken out a lot of the healthiest.

    We're all pretty strange one way or another; some of us just hide it better. "Normal" is a dryer setting.

    by david78209 on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:45:42 AM PDT

    •  "Privatize" the Administration of Medicare (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      david78209

      is a magic wand that has really not worked all that well under the Medicare "Advantage" program.

      And cutting the payments to the big private insurance companies that are involved does not cut benefits to Seniors covered by Medicare.

      We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

      by Into The Woods on Fri May 27, 2011 at 12:06:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So basically Republicans are lying (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, TofG

    don't hold your breath expecting the media to hold their feet to the fire.  

  •  Now the GOP has given the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    costello7, wsexson

    corporate media fodder for "balance".  Now when they "fact check" party claims on medicare, the media can claim that both sides have tried to cut medicare, and both sides are exaggerating the cuts attempted by the other side.  Both sides are equally at fault, and equally bad.  

    This "balance" will sufficiently muddy the waters to keep seniors confused and angry.  It may even drive down voter turnout enough to hurt democrats more than republicans.  The ball's in the dem's court now, time for them to fuck it up as usual.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:50:27 AM PDT

  •  Can someone explain what Medicare (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    Advantage is and why anyone would sign up for it?

    •  It's another insurance company scam (3+ / 0-)

      The ever so slick saleswoman Humana sent to our home convinced my partner, but not me,  that it was a better deal than staying on plain Medicare.  You sign over all your regular medicare benefits to them to "administer' for you, in return (supposedly) for additional coverage for certain things, as long as you stay within their approved "system". First year premuims (this is in addition to paying the 96.00 pr mo medicare premiums,) were low, but  then of course went up from there, as did co pays, while coverage stayed the same or went down. Just one more way Insurance companies feed off the Medicare system.

  •  If I may have the nerve to defend Democrats... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, alkatt

    Don't get me wrong, Democrats do oftentimes deserve their "spineless" image (mostly for their behavior during the Bush years), but I truly don't think this is an issue where they will "cave" or "negotiate to a bad plan" or whatever.  Medicare is just too damn popular.

    Let's be clear: Medicare will not be gutted.  I have seen no evidence as to why Democrats would give up on this issue other than the fact that they "always do."  Defeats in politics are always stick in the mind more than successes.

    This is the exact same pessimism that had people attacking Obama and the Dems during the most recent budget battle... And you know what?  Obama won the shit out of that fight, and I will gladly defend that point to anyone who says otherwise.

  •  But Jack Kingston has a plan. (0+ / 0-)

    (Found on Taegan Goddard site)

    "I said it many times. This is like skinny dipping. Somebody has to be the first one in the pool and it's real lonely when you're the only one in the pool. Paul Ryan is in the pool. We want the rest of the town to come along."

     -- Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA), in an interview on MSNBC's Hardball, on the House Republican Medicare proposal.
     

    So are you saying, Jack, that Emperor Ryan has no clothes?

  •  This is why Dems need to take Medicare (7+ / 0-)

    OFF THE TABLE.

    The Rethugs can't win an honest argument, so they're going to muddy the waters.  And, like it or not, that works.  If Dems propose any "reform" to Medicare at this time, the message wars for 2012 will, at best, be a wash.

    They're doubling down?  I say, "Go left, young man!"  Make the message as clear as can be.

    Rethuglicans = Kill Medicare

    Democrats = Medicare For All

    Medicare For All is not just a clear distinction from Rethugs that voters can understand, its not just a winning political message, it's also a winning policy move--one that fundamentally restructures the health care system in America in a way that solves both the healthcare crisis AND the budget crisis.

    Say what you will that Medicare For All won't pass.  Neither will a Rethug voucher plan.  If Dems, as they usually do, try to find that mushy middle, we're screwed both politically and policy wise.  Better to take a stand.  And, yeah, I think Medicare For All is a hill worth dying on, if it comes to that.

    "Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will."—Frederick Douglass

    by costello7 on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:54:40 AM PDT

  •  Yippee! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    Speaker Boehner, where are the jobs?

    by Carlo on Fri May 27, 2011 at 10:59:37 AM PDT

  •  Sadly, it will work, because the media (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG

    has pity on the Republicans and won't dare tell them they're actually wrong about something.

    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:02:19 AM PDT

  •  Don't waste chance to destroy GOP credibility (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, TofG, davelf2, Matt Z

    Dems should not be wasting the chance to smash GOP credibility.  Boehner is caught in a lie, the day after he was caught quoting the media quoting the GOP.  Explain why he's lying and difference between GOP cuts to Medicare and Democrats'.  The party that created this program over GOP opposition is the one that should be trusted to defend it.  GOP approvals slipping fast.  Kick them when they're down.

  •  Reality is created... (0+ / 0-)

    ...it doesn't just exist in a vacuum.  Right now, Republicans are attemtping to recreate the reality of 2010 - that Democrats cut Medicare (I don't care of that wasn't actual reality; that was the reality that epublicans created for that election.  The only way they can succeed, now, is for Democrats to cave on actually cutting Medicare.  If Democrats do so, and go along with Republicans, Republicans will have created a new reality - not that Democrats are fiscally responsible, but that Democrats are out to cut Medicare.  This has serious weight behind it, on the heels of the NY-26 Red Debacle.

    I think, however, democrats are smart enough to give the Reds all the rope they need to hang themselves this time around.  I think they'll keep saying no to cuts, and let the Republicans get caught in the pincers of economic collapse, and blowback from the business community, as a result of not raising the debt ceiling.

    Stupid is as stupid elects.

    by TheOrchid on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:08:04 AM PDT

  •  The ACA cut SUBSIDIES TO INSURANCE COs & Fraud (0+ / 0-)

    The ACA cut subsidies to insurance companies (wasn't it on the order of $170 billion?) because there is really no need for them. They also moved against fraud.

    Of course FRAUD is what generates the mazuma for the Republicans like Rick Scott who can then take their ill gotten gains and buy a governor's or a senator's seat.

  •  Republicans are Lying M*ther F*ckers. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    Can we FINALLY just speak the truth ?

    Please ?

    .

  •  McChinless now tying Medicare cuts to debt ceiling (0+ / 0-)
  •  Dems WILL cave. They always do. It's in their DNA (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ivy redneck, wsexson
    •  In 'their DNA' ? Not hardly. (0+ / 0-)

      Not in MINE. Not in most Democrats I've ever known.

      Caving in is a learned behavior, and our elected Democrats can be re-trained.   We begin with a stick.

      If THAT doesn't work, we go to a Primary.

  •  Medicare Advantage is a great deal for seniors (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    South Park Democrat, coffejoe

    But it makes no sense from a cost and health care management sense, because it needlessly throws taxpayer dollars (which, as everyone likes to claim, we don't have and that our great grandchildren will be paying for blah blah blah) on the least efficient (and fair) health care management system today, the private health insurance system. Under it, seniors get more coverage (in theory at least) for little to no more cost, insurance companies get extra unearned profits, taxpayers get shafted, and the budget further explodes with no end in sight.

    Medicare Advantage is a great idea, poorly implemented. It should be ended and brought entirely in-house, with insurers free to continue offering MediGap policies for seniors who want more coverage and can afford it, while Medicare would do the same, but at presumably lower costs to seniors (and taxpayers).

    In fact, by priciing such supplemental coverage on a sliding scale, it could pay for itself (and perhaps even make a profit, subsidizing the rising costs of regular Medicare). Yes, it would compete with private supplemental Medicare insurance, but who doesn't like healthy competition? Certainly not Repubs, who are always raving about its wonders. And it would offset any political attacks about Dems supposedly cutting Medicare, because it would actually be INCREASING Medicare, while lowering its costs at the same time--a win-win-win!

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Fri May 27, 2011 at 11:36:42 AM PDT

  •  Like it or not (0+ / 0-)

    the Republicans are starting to get their feet on the Medicare issue. Public perception wins elections and the Reps look to be trotting out more attempts to solve economic woes than Dems. It has been a battle to try and repair what looked like a certain campaign killer for Reps. But their ability to twist some facts may make for some problems if the Dems do not come up with a plan to save Medicare and to present some sort of plausible budget plan.

  •  I will be very interested... (0+ / 0-)

    To see how this plays out.

    “Sometimes, the most reasonable thing in the legislative process is to be unreasonable.” Mike Pence, R-Ind., on negotiating with the democrats.

    by dclawyer06 on Fri May 27, 2011 at 12:39:40 PM PDT

  •  so what i'm getting here (0+ / 0-)

    is that once again, we are too good for Republican tactics, but we are good enough to get our ass handed to use by them

  •  Does the man (0+ / 0-)

    have ANY pants left that are not on fire?

  •  What can we do? (0+ / 0-)

    I'm 58 years old. I've worked my whole life and like many I've seen my earnings stagnate over the past couple decades. I consider myself lucky that I have not had to endure long periods of unemployment like so many have. But, I also haven't seen my financial life improve as I once thought it would and I don't have nearly enough saved to comfortably retire when the time comes.

    I will depend on Medicare and Social Security and can ill-afford to see any of those benefits erode due to the evil machinations of Republicans and compliance from milquetoast Democrats.

    Democrats are now saying these things are on the table, so I guess my question is, who speaks for the average person, who are our advocates, our lobbyists? For the past few election cycles I have been voting straight Democrat ticket, but if they fail us, I won't vote for them anymore. I guess I just won't vote because there will be no one who represents me anymore.

  •  Mediscare facts and fiction (0+ / 0-)

    Why is it that Repos can claim that Demo attacks on Ryan's Death Vouchers are Mediscare while Repo attacks on "Obamacare" are not?  

    Obviously, attacks based on truth are really scary while attacks based on fiction are not.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Note that the Repos major complaint about "Obamacare" is that it eliminates the unfunded Medicare Advantage gift subsidies the Gyppers had given to their insurance company buddy CEOs.  

    And, now the Gyppers want to replace the MedAdd subsidies with unregulated vouchers given to those same insurance CEOs to keep for themselves while they charge elderly individuals much higher premiums for the actual healthcare they may or may not be able to receive.

  •  Poll questions we'd like to see (0+ / 0-)

    Do you think that healthcare cheats who refuse to buy insurance coverage should be able to have you pay for their emergency room costs?

    If you were given an irrevocable individual choice between traditional Government-insured Medicare coverage and partial-premium vouchers given to a health insurer, would you choose to pay higher Medicare premiums now or higher health insurer premiums later?

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