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I thought I would jump into the whole 'Weinergate' debacle. Initially I was going to abstain, but I am a slave to my impulses.

UPDATE

I have to amend my title because of this. The new title of this post will be 'Andrew Sullivan Sums Up 'Weinergate' Perfectly, before Summing It Up Terribly'.

I agree with this completely. There's nothing I can add to it:

"Weiner has not resigned and, frankly, I see little reason why he should. No one, so far as I can tell, was harrassed, no one was abused, no actual sex even took place at all. I'm not sure one can even find any hypocrisy here. Moreover, if online flirting is unforgivable, why isn't off-line flirting unforgivable? And what really is the difference? Apart from pictures that can be used to humiliate - and even blackmail.

Yes, I realize that one congressman recently swiftly resigned over a Craigslist shirtless pic, but that was a stupid response then and it remains a stupid thing now. It was and should have remained a matter between him and his spouse. Given the result of NY-26, maybe even the GOP is regretting its bout of puritanism now.

...I don't view this as a partisan matter - I find it impossible to condemn Larry Craig out of hand and feel for Ted Haggard. And they were clearly acting hypocritically. There was also a shred of public reason for their humiliation. I don't see any broader argument being invoked here, except partisan revenge.

Should Weiner have done this? For an elected public official, it was unwise, inappropriate, stupid. For a human being, it remains well within the bounds of, well, human.

Yes, he absolutely should not have lied. He should never have lied. But he has now also copped to his lies. It would take a particularly pitiless person to pile on some more. And I am grateful that even Andrew Breitbart seems to have drawn the line there."

Well, maybe there is something I can add to it. I am a blogger after all.

I'm certainly not willing to abandon my support for Anthony Weiner--one of the greatest, most articulate lions of liberalism we currently have--because of our culture's voyeuristic puritanism. Not long ago, I listened to Rush Limbaugh opining the fact that there are no heroes anymore, because our culture is so invasive that it's impossible to keep our personal foibles out of the public eye. He said it destabilizes the country.

I disagree. I'm glad that we are collectively coming to realize the myth of the saint. When we believe in saints, it makes it impossible for us to do the right thing, because we leave 'the right thing' to the saints. 'Who am I to get involved?' we say, 'I'm just a normal person'.

Well, newsflash, we're all normal people, with all kinds of idiosyncrasies; someone has to get involved.

Anthony Weiner has definitely gotten involved, and the country is better for it. For what it's worth, I've got his back.

cross posted at EVERYTHING IN THE MEDICINE CABINET HAS EXPIRED

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    •  Most of the people who condemn Wiener have (122+ / 0-)

      some secret indiscretion that, if revealed, would cause them at the very least extreme embarrassment.  It doesn't necessarily have to be sexual, just s-t-u-p-i-d.

      But, when the possibility of discovery is next to nil, or at least seems that way, an imaginary firewall allows one to store away his own foibles in a memory box way, way, down in the stack, so that a (false) sense of invulnerability develops, which - depending upon an individual's innate sense of fairness - permits a criticism of "the other" aided and abetted by a self-delusional sense of personal innocence.

      In other words we're all human, with all the ridiculous psychological errata that entails.

      The community of fools might be small if it were not such an accomplished proselytizer.

      by ZedMont on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:36:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Worship and idolotry is the issue to me (56+ / 0-)

        It's immature to put anyone on a pedestal just plain stupid thinking and then defend them to the death..

        makes the worshipers look unhinged.

        "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones."

        by roseeriter on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:19:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, and it's all a sham anyway. If it weren't (22+ / 0-)

          for partisan warfare, it would rate no more than a ho-hum, who's next?

          I think Tiger Wood is still walking on well-manicured turf, eh?

          The community of fools might be small if it were not such an accomplished proselytizer.

          by ZedMont on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:26:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Two different careers (8+ / 0-)

            and he lost the vast majority if his endorsements.  It would be like if weiner got kicked from all but one committee.

            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:29:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, many of Tiger's endorsements were (22+ / 0-)

              for some completely unknown reason centered around his being a family man.  Had they been strictly about golf and game strategy, he would have been on better footing in the face of that scandal.  But some of his sponsors had positioned him as a moral touchstone which did exactly align with his actual lifestyle choices as it turned out.

              •  If you lie to your wife, you'll certainly lie (15+ / 0-)

                to me.  

                It doesn't take a rocket scientist to add that up.

                It would be a grave mistake to think that this public lying he did was the first time.  

                He's been doing a lot of covering up and sneaking around for a while now.  

                The reality is that eventhough he didn't position himself as a family man in public he did it with his wife and if you are going to violate the trust of the one person you shouldn't there is not much that can be defended after that.

                Politicians are often under the threat of losing positions on committees for activities detrimental to the democratic party.  This is no exception although one will be made.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:48:05 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Politicians lie. (64+ / 0-)

                  Not a single one of them has ever told you the whole truth and nothing but the truth over the course of their careers.  It is your job to decide what matters.  What lies matter and what truths and half-truths matter to you.

                  I thought that he was a fool for lying - just as I thought Clinton was a fool for lying.  Of course, neither one affected my life negatively by engaging in sexual escapades until the Puritans and the political opponents made sure that they would wear a scarlet letter for their "sins".

                  In any case, both Clinton and Weiner should have said, "Its none of your goddamned business" rather than opting to lie.

                  •  I think they all lie also then you need to watch (23+ / 0-)

                    how far they carry the lie- like with John Edwards- HE willingly stayed in the race which would have been so destructive had he made it to the WH. Some egos are bigger than others and the bigger the ego the more damage.

                    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones."

                    by roseeriter on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:02:50 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  it is very telling (5+ / 0-)

                      The fact that Weiner played this the way he did tells me something about his personality: he is an extremely egotistical, narcissistic and/or arrogant individual. Take your pick of any or all of those adjectives.

                      What would make one –especially a public figure- think that they could carry on with half a dozen women online, replete with email and photographic evidence, and not have that blow up on them at some point? Likewise, when faced with said evidence what would compel someone to flat out lie to the media. That, and lie to the media with a story like “I was hacked.” which would be ultimately disproved.

                      Having an ego is sort of a prerequisite for pursuing high public office. What else makes people say to themselves, “Yes, I am the person who should do that.”?  That said, there must be some phenomenon where people in high office live in the bubble long enough without it being pierced and they get more and more divorced from reality.

                      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

                      by Joe Bob on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:54:01 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Politicians are only second to movie stars (5+ / 0-)

                        and/or brain surgeons where it comes to ego.

                      •  Without that ego, he would not.. (4+ / 0-)

                        ...have had the aggression and self-efficacy to take on the establishment the way he did.  It was exceptionally stupid but strong leaders have been known to do stupid sexual things; in fact, most normal adult people do stupid sexual things and sometimes get desperate to cover it up.

                        I'm sad that we've probably lost one of the few effective liberal advocates in DC. Someone the GOP was salivating to take down.  I was sad when Spitzer stepped down.  In my life, progressives have never needed men like Wiener and Spitzer and Bill Clinton more than ever and let us not forget Teddy Kennedy.  I'd trade any one of them for Reid in a heartbeat and, in a match up with Obama, imo, they would all be negotiable.

                      •  Where is the basement? (0+ / 0-)

                        Where do we draw the line for a minimum standard of behavior? If it is ok for congress people to be "creepy perverts" - which is how I would characterize Representative Wiener - then we have lowered an already way too low standard for the house. That's one reason house approval hovers at 20%. And his name certainly won't help people forget about it. I think he would help the party enormously by resigning, getting help and focusing on his family. Maybe delete his Twitter and Facebook accounts.

                        "It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant." Barack Obama August 5, 2008

                        by thefretgenie on Thu Jun 09, 2011 at 03:32:17 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  And another angle is the blackmail. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      LHB, Sue B

                      Now Breitbart claims to have even lewder pics of Weiner that would 'destroy his family', (according to Lawrence O'Donnell his erect, naked penis). And at this point I don't have any reason to doubt Breitbart on this. Further, he said he would release those images if Weiner didn't behave as he wanted - also something I don't have any reason to doubt Breitbart on.

                      So now we have a US Congressman who can be blackmailed into ineffectiveness. His message has been compromised. And as forthcoming as he's been - I believe he is only admitting to the things he is now forced to admit to. Who knows what other skeletons are out there, and even if this was the extent of his indiscretions, any accusations anyone makes from now on will be assumed as true before they are disproven.

                      I absolutely 100% supported Congressman Weiner and believe he was among the best advocates for a progressive, populist vision of America, but I fear he has now been put in a blackmail cage. I hope he can rebound like Congressman Frank, but if there are deeper skeletons that will reign him in as a true advocate, he will need to step aside to not harm the causes I believe he deeply believes in.

                      There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why...
                      I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ~ Robert Kennedy

                      by Reality Bites Back on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:44:36 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  What kind of cage is Vitter in? (4+ / 0-)

                        Seriously there are stupid things people do, and then there are slightly deviant things that totally defy reason.

                        When it comes to most (99.9%) consentual sex and liasons who really cares? This is taking up more ink than it merits- there's an economic system teetering on the edge and it's down half a page on Google news. When the Media has the last word everyone is potentially in the "blackmail cage".

                        The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution. Paul Cezanne

                        by MeToo on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:41:59 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Do you see Vitter railing out on the floor on (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          MeToo, bablhous, LHB

                          issues like Weiner has done over the past couple years? I hope I'm wrong, but I think this will force Weiner to be muted on the issues he was so passionate about. For example this Clarence Thomas corruption - what if he gets a suggestion from Breitbart, if you attack Thomas again, I'll release that naked pic of you. Do you think Weiner will take that chance? I hope I'm wrong and that it's over and in a few months, Weiner will be back at it as a strong advocate, but even Lawrence O'Donnell said on his show that there is much more damning pictures out there, so yes - until I see Weiner railing out on the House floor for progressive causes and taking on Republicans again with all his passion, I will have believed we have lost a most effective voice of the left.

                          There are those who look at things the way they are, and ask why...
                          I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? ~ Robert Kennedy

                          by Reality Bites Back on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:00:16 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  Um, isn't blackmail... (5+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        HiKa, kingyouth, LHB, Sue B, samddobermann
                        "Further, he said he would release those images if Weiner didn't behave as he wanted - also something I don't have any reason to doubt Breitbart on."

                        -- and I'd say the above certainly qualifies as that -- still a crime?

                        Why isn't Breitbart sitting in a room with a one-way mirror and getting grilled by some prosecutors after making such statements?

                  •  Perhaps they should (40+ / 0-)

                    but I can't find any genuine moral reason why lying about one's private, legal, consensual romantic and sexual affairs to people with whom one is not romantically involved is wrong. Ill-advised, perhaps, in some cases, but wrong? Only if you believe lying is always and universally wrong.

                    And I don't believe that, because I find that position morally untenable. I can't be a Kantian; if I were sheltering Jews in Nazi Germany, you can bloody well bet I'd lie to any Nazi soldiers who came to my door. Some lies are not only morally acceptable, but morally obligatory.

                    Now, lying about dick pics isn't obligatory - but acceptable? I think it is. Just like other forms of lying about one's sex life. Are we prepared to say that the vast and overwhelming majority of gays and lesbians over 40 are unqualified to hold public office because they almost all, at some point, were closeted and implied/stated publicly that they were straight? How is that different?

                    (It was of course wrong for him to hide it from his wife. Or to engage in this sort of interaction without his wife's consent. Fine. Small infraction that concerns him and his wife, not the whole bloody country.)

                    •  I don't care that he lied to the public (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      splintersawry, HRs Kevin, jan0080

                      he lied to his wife and more importantly he cheated on his wife.  

                      That to me means the potential for deception is multiplied by a number I am not comfortable with.

                      The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                      by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:51:39 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  If your standard for politicians (34+ / 0-)

                        is that they must be people who have never in their lives lied to their spouses...well, you've killed off the vast majority of married men and probably most married women.

                        Personally, I have a lot more respect for MLK, Jr. than Mitt Romney, no matter how wholesome the latter's marriage may be.

                        •  What is the point you are trying to make? (7+ / 0-)

                          Seriously, I have made no assertion even close to what you are trying to pin on me.  

                          My level of respect for Anthony Weiner as a man is where it was the day before yesterday.  I don't know him so my respect level for him was already at a bare minimum for someone I don't know.  

                          Him cheating on his wife just tells me more about him.  Is it unfair that his life gets played out on TV, one could argue that but that's the game he chose to play, just like he chose to send photos of himself to women other than his wife.

                          I don't have to like it, I don't have to justify it, and I certainly don't have to be mocked for making a different choice.  

                          I don't believe that the vast majority of men and women have cheated on their spouses and I would bet there are people here that would push back on that fiercly.

                          It's not difficult to be faithful to the person you take such vows with.  

                          The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                          by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:18:52 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  the whole point is (12+ / 0-)

                            he didn't cheat on his wife. At least not sexually, so I am unsure what your point is.

                            Inconceivable! You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

                            by hopeful on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:23:25 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You would find that acceptable? (6+ / 0-)

                            seriously?

                            That's cheating to me.  If you want to split hairs over the definition of cheating that's fine but I think having phone sex and sending pics of your privates qualifies.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:38:39 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's between you and your spouse or partner (9+ / 0-)

                            to decide what's acceptable, and what constitutes cheating.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:11:23 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Well? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            What about you and yours?

                            Me and mine say no?  What about you?

                            It's pretty clear that Anthony and his wife don't find it acceptable.  

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:24:41 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I meant "you" in the generic sense. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril

                            I'd rather let them sort it out for themselves. I don't want to judge their relationship.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:58:19 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Put yourself in their shoes for a second. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            I know it's cool to be objective and non judgemental but what if it was you?

                            You don't have to judge their relationship to make an assessment about his ability and willingness to tell a lie.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:59:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I can't really make such an assessment. (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril, inclusiveheart

                            I don't think I have enough information, and I don't know how I would deal with it personally.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:06:54 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You don't know how you would react if (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            your partner did this?  

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:11:23 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, I don't. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril

                            The situation is too hypothetical for me.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:12:43 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I have a problem with anyone (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril, greeseyparrot, Lynwaz, HiKa

                            trying to force their sense of morals on another person.  I could understand it if the person is in the morality business, such as religion.  But even then, we humans have free will.  Make of it as you want.

                            Now if you wanna cast a judgment on a person based on your application of morals, then that's your free will.

                            But it doesn't mean that because a person lied to a spouse that they as a pol would lie about policy matters.

                            Unless you take the view that pols lie about EVERYTHING, and then something is wrong with people who chooses to elect them to office year after year after year.

                            "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

                            by smoothnmellow on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:03:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Your telling me that I haven't made a sound (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            assessment of Anthony Weiner's ability and willingness to lie to the public period, policy matters or otherwise, after this?

                            Also how have I imposed my morality on anyone?

                            He lied, I didn't, you can't find where I said he was a bad person, you can't find where I said he can't do his job, you can't find any of that, you can't.

                            I mean seriously do the work before you tell me what I am doing.  Take a few minutes to dig out where I imposed my morality.

                            You didn't catch me saying anything about people who are okay with "sharing" or cheating or sending pics of themselves to other people.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:09:28 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You made assumptions about the (5+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            greeseyparrot, kyril, Lynwaz, kingyouth, Sue B

                            agreement that Weiner and his wife have - you seem to think that theirs is exactly the same as the terms that you and your spouse have agreed upon.

                            It isn't how your deal is structured and that's fine - and you can't imagine another deal with any other terms than the one that you've entered into.  That's great - speaks to your strong alignment and partnership in your relationship.  

                            Now having said all of that, Washington couples are a totally different animal in most cases than the average couple.  I would say that seven out of ten (or more) are together for a whole host of reasons that you would never even begin to consider in your process of selecting a mate and building a life together.  These people are operators.  Their spouses need to be operators.  The list in most cases is not about love as much as it is about strategy, alliances, social skills, ruthlessness, toughness, social stature and ambition.  Sex may have a role, but in a lot of cases the deals involve sex being something that is done with others.  You may think this is some sort of wild assessment, but DC is full of this kind of relationship.  It is more unique to find people who really are in love around here and not just an extremely good political team.

                          •  give me a fucking break (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            that is total fucking bullshit.

                            He would not have said what he said if the deal they had was even remotely close to the one tens of millions of Americans have with their partners.

                            Don't cheat please, it's not that hard.  Fucking try again.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:46:12 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You should relax and not for nothin' (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril

                            accept the possibility that people live differently and by different standards than you do.  You are less likely to have a stroke or heart attack if you do.

                            Lots of guys I dated and knew who were Hill and Administration types had a list and the list had little to do with love, affection and sex.  They were almost without exception all about status, political advancement and profiling for the perfect "wife" in the public sense.

                            I met one guy at a superbowl party of 3rd year law students at G-Town years ago who went around introducing himself to people he didn't know - including me - at the party by stating his name and then declaring that he had never smoked pot.  Rather taken aback I responded by saying, "Are you making this statement because you are intent on pursuing a career in politics or on the bench when you graduate?"  He said, "Yes."  I responded by saying, "Well, I guess that's smart in a way, but something about it makes me think that you are a bit weird."  I was of course not going to be courted after that review - and not just because I wasn't particularly diplomatic in my response.  That was pure calculation on his part - about himself and everyone else with whom he might associate himself.  The poor guy probably met the love of his life and found out that she smoked pot once or twice and ran like hell.  There was no room for real affection or deep connection in his world - his agenda was centered around his political ambitions and I imagine that unless something changed dramatically for that guy his wife was picked entirely on that basis, too.

                            Clearly this upsets you, but I have real world experience with the DC mating system - lol.  This isn't some theory that I've constructed.  It is a culture unto itself.

                          •  That bubble doesn't represent the real (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi, LHB

                            world.

                            Accepting the possibility that people live different lives has nothing to do with it.  I can accept that but if you are going to lie about it to the rest of us because we live outside of the DC bubble, I feel even better about my position.  

                            This, it's okay because it's "the bubble" then it's between him and his wife shit doesn't add up when you are sending dick pics to people you barely know.  

                            There has to be some standard of morality, if your a swinger, don't fucking lie about it, if you fuck women based on how far you think you will get in politics, don't lie about it, if your marriage is a sham for the cameras, don't fucking lie about it.

                            Don't sit in the actual ivory towers of Washington, making policy that affects peoples lives if you can't live up to their standards, which are clearly in place, unspoken or not because if they weren't he wouldn't have lied about it in the first place.

                            My judgement has nothing to do with his activities, it has to do with the fact that he is a fucking liar, now if you are going to tell me that his lying is okay, then you can call me judgmental all you want.

                            Our President did cocaine...but he told the truth about it and that's the difference.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:11:10 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I think that Weiner was a total idiot (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril

                            for lying and I've said so - many times.

                            All I am talking about is the fact that DC couples on the politcal fast track are not necessarily "traditional" unions the way that more romantic and feeling people build relationships.

                            And, honestly, I don't think that their is a lie per se.  It is a union in most cases and in many these unions are fiercely defended and protected.  But the nature of those unions is often different than what YOU or someone else might consider ideal.

                            Anyway, we shall see if Weiner's statement about not having any intention of splitting with his wife is shared by her.  She might just ditch him in the end.  And she may not do it entirely for romantic reasons.  She may calculate that his fate has turned him into a loser and she may want a winner.  I've seen that happen more than a few times.  When his power wanes, she departs for the next relationship that ensures that her power is not afflicted.  Weiner's wife is very pretty, apparently smart and she is ambitious.  She might have a future with another powerful guy down the road and she might very well consider that her best option.

                          •  having phone sex and sending pics of your privates (5+ / 0-)

                            Qualifies?

                            Maybe someone needs to explain the difference between fantasy and reality.

                            We all have fantasies. We dream, we lust in our hearts...and nobody tells even their spouse about some things....

                            So  who is the injured party here?

                            Weiner's response should have been:

                            "So I have a big dick! Too bad nobody cares about yours!"

                            "And why are you, the reporters and Breitbart so fixated on my penis? Got a problem of your own?"

                            Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

                            by blindcynic on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:31:32 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  His wife is the injured party. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            along with Anthony himself, hence the tears.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:47:59 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  His wife is the injured party? (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            greeseyparrot, kyril

                            Huge supposition. If she is injured, it's because of the media frenzy about a trivial non-event...

                            Now David Vitter, Larry Craig, Newt Gingrich, Bob Livingston, Tom Coburn and John Ensign, those were events...

                            Without geometry, life is pointless. And blues harmonica players suck.

                            by blindcynic on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:06:46 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  why would he (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi, LHB

                            apologize to his wife if she wasn't the injured party?

                            Would you consider it a non-event if it happened to you?  Seriously, I'm a little confused about what people find acceptable behavior by their partner.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:41:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I would. (0+ / 0-)
                            Would you consider it a non-event if it happened to you?  Seriously, I'm a little confused about what people find acceptable behavior by their partner.

                            Probably. Depends a little bit on the circumstances...if I had reason to believe he was harassing or stalking or taking advantage of someone, yeah, there'd be a problem. Just flirting and swapping pictures...non-event.
                          •  Cheating? It was certainly 'emotional (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Sue B

                            cheating,' he was being tittillated by someone other than his wife.... and he's not even been married to that 'drop dead' gorgeous woman for a year!  Perhaps he was just being tittillated by himself and his own actions?  I don't think he understands his own actions but the closest I can come to describing them is 'frat boy.'  I think he thought this was acceptable behaviour and funny at that, being cool; it's like his emotional level stopped in his late teens, early twenties.  He certainly had a lot more free time than I would have expected as well.  Again, I am deeply, deeply, disappointed in him as an individual, not from a moralist viewpoint but that he could be so incredibly stupid as a politician and so unkind to his wife as a man.

                            "In Youth We Learn...In Age We Understand"

                            by Jbeaudill on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:52 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I read a study years ago (0+ / 0-)

                            back in college.  In brief, the results were (when polled) a substantial %age of women tended to consider a longterm "emotional"affair that may not have even had any intimate physical contact as more egregious than a onetime cheating "one night stand" by a partner.

                            men were, not surprisingly, on the opposite side.  a much smaller %age considered "emotional cheating" as as bad or worse than a "meaningless" one night stand with an anonymous never see them again in their lifetime person.

                            and like all studies of human beings and their emotions/values - individuals vary greatly.

                          •  As a woman I concur with (0+ / 0-)

                            real cheating that would be unforgiveable to be what Governor Arnie and John Edwards did to their wives and families.  I would leave any man that did that to me and good riddance.   Weiner is just stupid and embarrassingly stupid at that; he obviously has some mental/emotional issues, perhaps with self-image or sex in and of itself.  
                                     While a 'one-night' stand would wound me, or perhaps endanger my sexual health, it is not the same to me as a full-blown emotional commitment to another person as lover, nor fathering a child outside the marriage.
                                      It remains to be seen what Weiner's wife will do; she is apparently a very capable woman, one with a respected reputation in her work... it depends on whether love can conquer his foibles, I guess.  He has broken her trust nonetheless and that is not ever ever easily restored.

                            "In Youth We Learn...In Age We Understand"

                            by Jbeaudill on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:41:54 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Weak sauce n/t (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            greeseyparrot

                            "Hey, wait a minute, there's one guy holding up both puppets!" -Bill Hicks

                            by Tismo70 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:50:08 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He didn't cheat on his wife (9+ / 0-)

                            He did lie to his wife. He did do something his wife almost certainly doesn't approve of. But he did not, as far as we know, actually cheat on her.

                            The overwhelming majority of people who have been married have lied to their spouses and/or secretly done something their spouses wouldn't approve of. It may not be this particular thing, but that doesn't really matter unless you have a particular puritanical problem with this particular thing.

                          •  That's not a very strong defense. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:39:37 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't see why not (12+ / 0-)

                            Personally, I don't think cheating on one's spouse should be a disqualifier for public office. I think we're better off for having elected JFK and Bill Clinton, among others.

                            But if you do believe that cheating should be a disqualifier, the fact nevertheless remains that Weiner did not cheat. His offense to his wife is merely flirting and lying about it.

                          •  I'm sorry (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi

                            but you are going to have to stop making assumptions about what I am saying, stop lying about it, or show me where I am saying the things you think I am.

                            It's not fair that you get to put words in my mouth that I never even came close to saying.

                            He's a liar and that's all I said.

                            Take a look further down the thread and get after people that are really saying the things you know I'm not.

                            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:02:07 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I have to assume (9+ / 0-)

                            that you think it impacts his competence to hold office, because otherwise I can't for the life of me figure out why you think it's any of your business.

                          •  Not Puritanical to think this worse (0+ / 0-)

                            If he had been sending risque photos of women to his buddys that his wife probably won't have been thrilled with, you can then can say it is being Puritanical by objected to something like this. But this is not about the photos per say. This is about Weiner engaging in sexual flirtations with women that weren't his wife and really most women are going to find that quite a bit more objectionable then finding out that their husband snuck off to a baseball game rather then spending the day doing yard work.

                            That said, I don't think this behavior speaks to his ability to perform his job and an not inclined to make sweeping judgements about his moral character based on lack of faithfullness to his wife. I am, however, concerned that the media-storm will  prove  to much of a distraction for him to continue as a Representative.

                          •  You don't consider (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mim5677, Chi

                            sexting a pornstar to be cheating?  I must be old-fashioned.

                          •  Statistics say you are wrong (6+ / 0-)

                            A plurality, at the very least, of men and women have admitted to cheating on their spouses when asked on sexual behavior surveys whether they have.

                            We're not nearly as different from the bonobos as we like to pride ourselves on being. Hmm, maybe that's what's at the bottom of the current typhoon of moral outrage: how dare that Congressman act like he's no better than a bonobo? How dare he strip away our illusions that we're "better" and "purer" and "more moral" than our furred cousins? How dare he?  :-P  :-P  :-P  

                            If it's
                            Not your body
                            Then it's
                            Not your choice
                            AND it's
                            None of your damn business!

                            by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:01:45 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  except that the bonobos accept (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril

                            that sort of behavior, and there's not an expectation of monogamy. They don't seem to have the whole guilt complex that humans have.

                            "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                            by AaronInSanDiego on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:13:43 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  the point they're trying to make (0+ / 0-)

                            is that Dems should be held to lower standards than the same people  themselves hold Rubes to.  If Clarence Thomas had been a Dem, they would have  trampled each other to join in the demonizing of Anita Hill.

                            "Tu vida es ahora" ~graffiti in Madrid's Puerta del Sol, May, 2011.

                            by ActivistGuy on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:40:51 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Negative (7+ / 0-)

                            I think that the private consensual affairs of politicians who aren't hypocritically trying to insinuate themselves in others' private lives are...well, private.

                            Thomas's history doesn't deserve to stay private on two counts: (1) hypocrisy, because he supports invading others' private lives, and (2) consensuality, because the allegations were of sexual harassment, not consensual flirting.

                            If, say, we discovered Rand Paul was having a consensual affair with an adult, my response would be the same as it is here: none of our damned business.

                          •  Maybe.... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Chi, irishwitch
                            If, say, we discovered Rand Paul was having a consensual affair with an adult, my response would be the same as it is here: none of our damned business.

                            KKKlanned Paul ran (partially) on a "family values" platform, so if he ever is caught with his pants down, it *is* our business. He's the one who trotted out the "morality" to gain votes. Let 'im suffer the consequences of lying to gain votes.
                            Double ditto for any closeted politicans with an anti-gay voting record -- they should be outed without mercy.

                            "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pensées, #894.

                            by maf1029 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:37:24 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Big, big difference (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            kyril, elwior, inclusiveheart, Sue B

                            between repeated sexual harassment and flirting.

                            Nothing I've seen indicates that Weiner imposed himself on unwilling participants.

                            And he's never made a point of condemning other peoples' sexual/marital choices, much less tried to impose his own morality by law...

                          •  i agree with you. i am disappointed in his (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Debby

                            actions.  we do have an anything goes society however, he is in congress and he is married.   What is wrong with finding a different hobby?

                            Anthony Weiner represented my views.  I have no real representation in Washington so it hurts worse!

                          •  What you do when no one is watching (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Expat Texan

                            is a key ingredient in character.  Anthony Weiner's politics are great.

                            He lied when he hoped that he could get away with this.  Had he initially fessed up to this, I would still respect him.  

                            Had Bill Clinton resigned and let Gore finish his term, we might never have gone into Iraq and saved thousands of lives.  Neither Bill Clinton nor Anthony Weiner are indispensable Democrats.  Clinton and Weiner's mistakes were lying about their actions.

                            Also a Leader should never do anything in private that they know is wrong.

                        •  Agree... (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          inclusiveheart, MeToo, kyril

                          I don't vote for politicians because they will be paragons of virtue. I vote for them because they will be steely eyed defenders of my causes and will work tirelessly for the public good. The puritanical underpinnings of this country do us a disservice and we should focus on what matters...

                          The Australians got the criminals and we got the Puritans....Who got the better deal?

                          "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke

                          by rclendan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:33:34 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  King George didn't cheat - and look (5+ / 0-)

                        how he turned out.

                        FDR said, "I welcome their hate!" Obama referred to them as "Savvy Businessmen". Any questions?

                        by Johnathan Ivan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:04:47 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  Many others have lied to their wives. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        kyril

                        We just don't have something like this which reveals that to the rest of us.

                        "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

                        by AaronInSanDiego on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:09:32 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  That's not really (0+ / 0-)

                          my fault.  He has to live within the world he chose to be in.  

                          He made all the choices.

                          The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                          by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:27:24 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  Average person, no biggie. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      splintersawry, Into The Woods

                      House or Senate, the lying is outside the job description.

                      Just my POV.

                      Thump! Bang. Whack-boing. It's dub!

                      by dadadata on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:01:18 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  what kyril said (5+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      kyril, ZedMont, elwior, Unit Zero, irishwitch

                      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
                      I am a volunteer for Bob Massie for MA-Sen

                      by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:35:47 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  You bring up a good point. (4+ / 0-)

                      I know this is not the case, but let's do a what if. What if his wife did know? What if his wife did consent? Are you willing to admit that publicly? What if his wife and he were swingers? They may be public servants, but does that mean they no longer have a right to a private life? What does any politician owe the American people when it comes to his/her personal life?

                  •  Don't Lie. Fess up. Cut losses. (8+ / 0-)
                    In any case, both Clinton and Weiner should have said, "Its none of your goddamned business" rather than opting to lie.

                    That would be like waving a flag in front of the bull (the Press).  MSM won't dig for anything meaningful, like political wrongdoing.  But a juicy scandal spurs them on to greater lows, and alas, the public is beaten to death with dirt, and actual news gets buried or neglected.

                    "At some point we must stop thanking God for rain when, in fact, we're getting urinated on by mainstream America." --D. Omavi Harshaw

                    by Bendra on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:26:52 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  this is true, and they both should have said, (7+ / 0-)

                    my personal life is personal and I will not discuss it in public. Sadly, first they are politicians, and second, human. I think Sullivan got it just right. None of us are Saints, and to expect one to be, is unrealistic. What should matter is what kind of job the person does, and if he/she is a hypocrite. Then there is the problem of the lying, but it is embarassing, and it could effect his young marriage, so ask yourself, if you wouldn't lie too. Life is complicated, and it is not up to us to judge others, especially when their failings don't effect us at all.

                  •  He sent semi-explicit pictures to random (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    k8dd8d, adigal, Marie, sharman

                    women without her consent.  That is not acceptable as in many jurisdictions it constitutes harassment.  Once you pass the consent line, you open yourself up to issues.  Everything that was consented to by both parties is between Anthony Weiner and his family.

                    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                    by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:16:24 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That's my main concenr... (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      fizziks, TiaRachel, kingyouth

                      so how do you know that pictures were sent without consent?  I have yet to see anything that indicates there is a harassment problem if you have further information I am interested.  

                      This makes about as much sense as Mike Huckabee on mescaline. - Prodigal 2-6-2008

                      by Tonedevil on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:05:45 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  She said so...multiple times...last week and (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Marie, buddabelly

                        this week...

                        Gennette Cordova on the record has statedshe does not know Weiner.  

                        Gennette Cordova, the 21-year-old college student ensnared in a lewd Twitter controversy with Rep. Anthony Weiner, said Monday she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”

                        She made the denial via Twitter just seconds after Weiner, a congressman from New York, admitted during a press conference that he sent Cordova a photo of his crotch. He also admitted to having relationships with several women online — but said he wouldn’t resign from public office.

                        “He has had six inappropriate relationships with women online in the last three years,” Cordova wrote on Twitter. “If it wasn’t clear, I was not one of them.

                        Another Twitter user accused Cordova of lying Monday, saying the congressman said he interacted with her before. She responded: “Did I miss the part where he said we had inappropriate exchanges? Because that never happened.”


                        "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                        by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:52:42 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Sadly, exactly (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          buddabelly

                          that is the one that crossed the line.  As AW knew the minute he did it.

                          What's especially weird tho, is that he did that stupid thing, exactly when his private indiscretions had been discovered, and that crew were watching his every tweet.  That whole thing, with the May 5 tease, is why I thought AW had not done the tweet, too much of a coincidence.  Sadly sadly, not.

                        •  I guess I didn't see the... (0+ / 0-)

                          incident with Gennette Cordova rising to the level of harassment.  Another Twitter user is more what I had in mind and this is the first I had heard of that.  With that in the mix at this point my money is on more complaints.  

                          This makes about as much sense as Mike Huckabee on mescaline. - Prodigal 2-6-2008

                          by Tonedevil on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:22:12 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Re-read what you posted (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          MeToo, Chi, Medium Head Boy
                          she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”

                          She did not say she didn't have interactions with him, she said she didn't have inappropriate interactions with him.

                          You are reaching for a conclusion that isn't there

                          -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be.

                          by Unit Zero on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:27:24 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  I highlighted it, so I am pretty sure I read it (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            buddabelly

                            So please let me know how an appropriate interaction would result in consent to send pictures of your private parts to someone you don't know?

                            Regardless, read the rest of the link.  She said she tweeted something to him but does not know him and has not interacted with him.

                            She is clearly stating she was not involved in exchanges requesting or responding to messages related to something she deems inappropriate.

                            I am not reaching any conclusion that does not stand up to what I posted.  Unless you are arguing that she thinks the pictures were appropriate and is parsing.  While possible, that is an extreme stretch.

                            "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                            by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:35:18 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't think that you can make the (0+ / 0-)

                      determination that she was not a consenting recipient at this point.  When and if that is supported by real factual data, I'll consider it as a factor, but until then this is a private matter in my opinion.

                      •  So you simply don't believe that her? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        buddabelly

                        Are you assuming she is lying?  

                        Gennette Cordova, the 21-year-old college student ensnared in a lewd Twitter controversy with Rep. Anthony Weiner, said Monday she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”

                        She made the denial via Twitter just seconds after Weiner, a congressman from New York, admitted during a press conference that he sent Cordova a photo of his crotch. He also admitted to having relationships with several women online — but said he wouldn’t resign from public office.

                        “He has had six inappropriate relationships with women online in the last three years,” Cordova wrote on Twitter. “If it wasn’t clear, I was not one of them."

                        Another Twitter user accused Cordova of lying Monday, saying the congressman said he interacted with her before. She responded: “Did I miss the part where he said we had inappropriate exchanges? Because that never happened.”

                        Or are you saying that unless she presses charges, it doesn't matter and individuals have the right to send pictures of their private parts to others without a explicit request/understanding?

                        She clearly has stated that she did not participate in these exchanges.  He has stated he sent the message unsolicited as a joke.  Therefore, it basically comes down to whether one finds this behavior acceptable for anyone, public official or not.

                        I am surprised that you fall into the category of one that believes people one has the right to send semi-explicit pictures to a person that has shared their contact information with them.

                        I believe that this is wrong and unacceptable for any individual. If someone consents as an adult, I could care less.  But I won't circle the wagons for someone who has demonstrated a willingness to behave in a harassing manner.  I have zero tolerance policy for that behavior.  And I liked Weiner which makes it more disappointing.  If it comes out that she was lying, I have no issue with the action.  It is between, him, his wife, and the young woman.   But the current facts seem to clearly imply he thought it was appropriate to send pictures of himself to a woman as a joke, and then realized this was not an appropriate action.  If it was, I doubt he would be apologizing.

                        "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                        by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:47:38 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  She said what she said... (0+ / 0-)

                          I'm not really circling the wagons here.  If you go through what I have said on this matter, I have been pretty measured about commenting about anything that hasn't been absolutely confirmed.  I really do not think that the excerpt that you provided proves that she was not a willing participant. All it says is that she was not a participant.  And her definition of inappropriate may be different from yours or mine.  She is 21 years old and under an intense spotlight right now.  I think that we have to see what goes on over the next few weeks as this story unfolds.  If she makes an outright claim of harassment at some point, as I said, I'll take it into consideration.  But the truth is that I think that a lot of people have gotten caught in an extremely personal situation and none are going to be particularly reliable in what they choose to say or do because they are panicked and embarrassed.  You and I are just not privy to what really has gone on between any of them.  I for one do not want to be.  I don't want to read about the sperm on the blue dress again.  I thought that that all was lurid, creepy and ridiculous - and when the Post and the Times agreed to print - that was the day that real journalism started to die, imo.

                          •  Ok...so you are assuming she may be parsing (0+ / 0-)

                            or not being transparent, that is one thing.  

                            But it sounds like you are saying if she is telling the truth, the behavior is not appropriate and not a private matter that is simply justifiable flirtation?

                            Is that correct?

                            Or are you saying that you if Scott Brown sent pictures of his private parts to Joan McCarter, because she followed him, you would say that is simply between them?  Adults have the right to send pictures around to others, and regardless of their jobs or positions, it is an issue simply between them?  Would that be the case if you boss sent pictures to one of your colleagues unsolicited?  It would be no of your business correct?

                            That seems like a pretty ready made excuse for men and woman who harrass others.  Basically, he/she led me on by looking at me, or it is none your business.

                            I guess I am just trained to have a zero tolerance policy for harassing behavior by the people I manage and those that supervise me, (the same for discriminatory behavior).  I guess I am simply coming from a different point of view where my company has strict policies and I am judging Weiner's behavior from that context where there were not two consenting adults involved.

                            I am surprised that I am in the minority on this site, but so be it.  I guess men and women are able to send exxplicit pictures to whomever they want and the only person that should care is the recipient.

                            "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                            by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:23:25 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I am saying that I really don't know (0+ / 0-)

                            what she's saying or what went on between them.  I don't think that either of us does at this point - and we may never know.  It may be that their exchanges turn out to have been nonconsensual, but I think that it is too early to tell right now.

                            All I know is that he admitted to sending pictures and then lying about it.  I have my opinions on that.  When and if she claims that he was harassing her - and makes that specific accusation - I'll take that into consideration along with any supporting evidence that she may have to back up that accusation.  

                            I have a stalker who just resurfaced in my life.  I can tell you with absolute certainty that if interviewed my comments would NOT be about whether or not I ever had any "inappropriate" contact with the guy.  My comments would be focused entirely on the fact that the guy has been harassing me for years now.  If you really feel that you are a target, I promise that nine times out of ten if your pursuer is caught out in this sort of way, you'll not withhold any of your emotional responses to being made a target.

                  •  Way to lower the standard... (0+ / 0-)

                    ...of conduct.

                    I didn't intend the above as a factual statement.

                    by Bensdad on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:22:50 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Because history matters: (0+ / 0-)

                    Bill Clinton TRIED to avoid saying it's none of your damn business, at least until he was out of office, but SCOTUS in Clinton v Jones said that allowing a private legal case to be prosecuted against a sitting president would not cause undue harm. It was in Jones v Clinton that he was subpoenaed to testify and that tesimony then formed the basis of the Starr investigation and impeachment trial.

                    It kind of surprises me how often I see Kossacks say that Clinton should have told people to bug off.  If we're going to make fun of a certain semi governor for not knowing 200+ year old history, we should probably know recent history especially since it affected our party's last sitting president.
                    http://www.law.cornell.edu/...

                    © grover. My sockpuppet is a furry blue muppet.

                    by grover on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:42:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

                      You don't think that in Clinton's interactions with the media - and that is the audience that I am focused on because they then push quotations and information out to the public - so you don't think that he even could have said that it was none of their business?  I think that is wrong.  I think that he would have been smart to turn the public debate away from the particular details of his sex life and towards the question of whether or not we had any business knowing lurid details about affairs between consenting adults.

                      Inevitably they are all going to get caught.  His time was coming.  He would have reduced the shock effect had he turned the question around and asked why it was anyone's business what any of us do in our private lives.

                      •  Kenneth Starr and his minions (0+ / 0-)

                        were keeping this in the spotlight. There were leaks and overt communications to the press to the press from the independent Counsel's office and the White House was trying to play catch-up the whole time.

                        Check out the agenda of Starr's investigation sometime, how it morphed and grew. They didn't care what they accused him of (accusing them of murdering Vince Foster's "murder," really?). Maybe Clinton didn't handle it perfectly, but the whole point was to bring him down, however they could.

                        I don't blame him for trying to defend himself after his compelled testimony was used against him.

                        And the fact is, history is showing him to be a good president.

                        © grover. My sockpuppet is a furry blue muppet.

                        by grover on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:21:40 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I know - I remember very well what (0+ / 0-)

                          was going on at the time.  I was listening to the Impeachment proceedings on the radio in the Lord & Taylor parking lot thinking, "Are you fucking kidding me?"

                          He should have said, "I don't kiss and tell."

                          Anyway, I really thought that the whole thing was disgusting on numerous levels and have always felt that his decision to lie to the media was the only real thing that put him on the absolute defensive with the public and his inner circle of close allies who felt betrayed and helpless....

                          Weiner was a young Clinton devotee.  He should have learned from Clinton that lying was the worst thing to do.

                          •  I agree with your last sentence. (0+ / 0-)

                            From Martha Stewart to Marion Jones to Barry Bonds to now Anthony Weiner, it's not so much what you did: it's the subsequent lies that get you in trouble.

                            © grover. "'Buy! Buy!' says the sign in the shop window. 'Why? Why?' says the junk in the yard." --John Denver, one of America's early and great environmentalists

                            by grover on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:06:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  Is the impact on *your* life the point? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    buddabelly

                    Honestly, I always considered that small-world me & mine perspective to be the hallmark of Republicans. Progressives/Liberals/Democrats are supposed to think bigger. Aren't we?

                    Here's why I am angry about Weiner and why I think there is an issue here

                    * Weiner lied.
                    * Weiner has poor comprehension of his role as a public figure. OR, got high on the power of it and thus abused it
                    * Weiner revealed a lack of understanding of the public nature of the internet
                    * Weiner revealed a lack of understanding of the consequences of his actions
                    * Weiner revealed his disdain for our intelligence and a hope for our gullibility in lying and calling it a hack
                    * Weiner abused the support of his followers by allowing them to put their reputations on the line by publicly believing and supporting him

                    •  Um, I think if you reread what I wrote (0+ / 0-)

                      above, you'll see that I do indeed take exception with the lying which is why I think he should not have lied and said something else.  Do I think that if he said that it was none of anyone's business what his sex life was meant that he would not eventually be forced to admit that he was sexting?  No.  I just think that it would have kept him out of the realm of being called a liar and put into play the question of whether or not his personal sexual life is in the grand scheme of things.

                      When I said that the Lewinsky affair made no difference in my life - it is true.  He could have slept with her and anyone else during his entire tenure and if no one had decided to make it into a big deal, I am pretty sure that key aspects of that Administration's policies would not have been at all different.  In other words, the Puritanical and otherwise busy body nature of our culture had more of an effect on the Clinton Presidency than that affair did.  The problems started after we found out, not while the affair was ongoing.  

                  •  It sets a great precedent that you can get caught (0+ / 0-)

                    lying about whatever and still keep your job.  That should stop a lot of future lying.

                    People still defending Weiner need to have their heads examined.

                    “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

                    by Jose Bidenio on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:10:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  He's toast - for a while anyway. (0+ / 0-)

                      When he chose to lie, he blew it on a multitude of levels.

                      Again, back to Clinton...  People might not remember that his close circle went to bat for him when he denied the affair.  When they realized that they too had been duped, he was totally alone.  It did not have to be that way.

                      Apparently, Pelosi is furious that Weiner only let her know that he was lying about being hacked a few minutes before he made that information public.  He put a lot of people on the spot.

                •  NOBODY (30+ / 0-)

                  Nobody could survive the revelations of their sex life to public view!  Imagine in the midst of an ugly divorce, if a spouse chose to reveal the manner in which a member of Congress enjoyed sex in a marital relationship.

                  When Anthony Weiner was a single member of Congress, he was undoubtedly one of the most eligible bachelors in town.  Now he is married.  His indiscretions with his sex life are for himself and his wife to resolve.  The national media have no need to be involved.

                  •  That's besides the point. (0+ / 0-)

                    The needs of the national media are their own and it makes as much sense to ignore the realities of what it is like to live life in the public eye as it does to have your sex life played out in public.

                    There are no excuses that make this any better.  

                    He did this to himself and it was going to come out one day.

                    The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                    by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:24:29 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Anybody here never lie to your spouse about (14+ / 0-)

                      anything?

                      To err is human .......

                      Wieners been to the woodshed and now he needs to prove to the people of his district that he is worth keeping around. It will make him a better rep.

                      I am sure he is learning to be a better husband.

                      I trust Anthony Wiener to learn from this and become a better person. I wish I could say the same for half of those in Congress.

                      •  Says who? (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        splintersawry

                        He admitted this yesterday and that's it, get back to work Anthony you can learn to be a better husband between sessions?

                        I'm not making a judgement about you, seriously I'm not but the vows he took with his wife as are serious if not moreso than the oath he took for office.

                        He needs to prove to his wife that he's worth keeping around far more than he needs to prove anything to an NY district where there are probably hundreds of Anthony Weiners waiting on deck.  

                        The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                        by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:49:14 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  well, that's not exactly the point (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Tonedevil, splintersawry, dfe

                        Anybody here never lie to your spouse about the thing you swore to keep inviolate--namely the honor and trust you hold for one another--would be the real question.

                        It ain't the same not to come clean about drinking out of the milk carton, even if you promised you wouldn't do it again.

                        And the answer to the amended question would be, yes, a lot of people.

                      •  Only because I'm congenitally single... (0+ / 0-)

                        I have not.

                        "You have three friends in your life. God, your Mama, and the Democratic Party...I'm not so sure about your Mama." --Alan Grayson

                        by chicating on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:32:55 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  No, it is not beside the point. (11+ / 0-)

                      Gawd, your points are so prudish and black/white rigid.

                      Weiner engaged in Twitter flirts mostly with women he knew over a long period of time and those tweets were fleeting moments of idle blurbs that had no ulterior motives. Nothing earthshattering there.

                      Chris Lee OTOH was actually prowling along the craigslist human body lane area "Women looking for Men" specifically for the purpose of finding a woman to pick up and spend (sexual) time with her. Far more time and activity than what you get from the blip of a tweet.

                      Weiner OTOH was not remotely involved in such a thing. His transgressions were 140-character fleet flirts with no real-time skin-on-skin time in the works.


                      I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

                      by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:16:42 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Sending semi-explicit pictures to a woman (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        BlueDragon

                        without her consent is not flirting.  

                        Or is it your position that following someone on twitter gives one the right to reciprocate by sending any picturs they like to their followers.  How about giving someone your phone number?  Is it flirting if you text some an explicit picture?

                        Is that your position?

                        "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                        by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:21:15 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  First of all... let's get real here (8+ / 0-)

                          That underwear shot was so juvenile. Underwear. Thick heavy grandpa underwear. It's not exactly a Speedo now is it?

                          And shirtless is just so... what? Flat man titties are a no-no?

                          Men go shirtless all the time. Only in repressive hyper-religious circles is it considered offensive for a man to not wear a shirt. But, in our culture (for most of us) it is not a big deal.

                          "Explicit" pics?  Not in my book.

                          And you do not know every single step that transpired in these tweeting back-and-forths and what led to what. And I don't personally care to delve into it. Don't need the titillating experience myself.

                          The one woman who was involved with GOP operative and Drudge and Breitbart... she specifically requested pics from Weiner.


                          I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

                          by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:06:49 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You are now just making stuff up... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            BlueDragon

                            it was not one woman, and the one who was involved in the tweet in question was not a GOP operative.

                            Gennette Cordova, the 21-year-old college student ensnared in a lewd Twitter controversy with Rep. Anthony Weiner, said Monday she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”

                            She made the denial via Twitter just seconds after Weiner, a congressman from New York, admitted during a press conference that he sent Cordova a photo of his crotch. He also admitted to having relationships with several women online — but said he wouldn’t resign from public office.

                            “He has had six inappropriate relationships with women online in the last three years,” Cordova wrote on Twitter. “If it wasn’t clear, I was not one of them.

                            Another Twitter user accused Cordova of lying Monday, saying the congressman said he interacted with her before. She responded: “Did I miss the part where he said we had inappropriate exchanges? Because that never happened.”

                            http://blog.seattlepi.com/...

                            Stop writing things that are not true.

                            "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                            by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:55:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Pot, Kettle, Black (0+ / 0-)
                            said Monday she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”
                            Stop writing things that are not true.

                            She is the one who says there were no "inappropriate interactions"

                            -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be.

                            by Unit Zero on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:34:54 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  huh? (0+ / 0-)

                            She meant before the pictures were sent.  Are you just intentionally misreading or are truly unaware of the facts of the story?

                            "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                            by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:26:10 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  Well, they were a little more than 140 character (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        BlueDragon, Marie

                        flirts, apparently. He was also having phone sex as well as sexting.  And he knew none of them personally as far as I can tell. Perhaps you are fine with your spouse getting off while talking to someone else, but I think most people would call it cheating.

                        You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

                        by sewaneepat on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:44:43 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  He knew most of the women... (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          irishwitch, Unit Zero

                          had known them for over 3 years.

                          As for phone sex... well... it's a technological step up from the Playboy in the bathroom thing... don't you think? What's the difference really... sex is a mind thing anyway... an open magazine or an open phone line. Mind thing. Just using different senses.

                          And really... he had no intention of getting personally romantically involved and did NOT do that with other women. That is core component of this. He did not cheat in his love for his wife.


                          I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

                          by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:57:44 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  He had been having an Internet "flirtation", (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            CS in AZ, splintersawry, adigal, dfe

                            "affair", whatever for three years. He did not know them personally.  He did not even know for sure that they were adults.

                            I don't want to be knocking the guy, I feel for him, especially since yesterday he delivered what seemed to me to be a genuine apology and acknowledgement of the hurt he has caused to his wife, his family (can you imagine how his mother feels?), his constituents and his staff. All those people have been hurt to some degree because of his actions.

                            As to having sex talk with a person vs. playboy as a means of stimulation- do you really thinks his wife thinks there is no difference. About the same difference as using your hand vs. a prostitute I would say.

                            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

                            by sewaneepat on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:20:02 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Who told you that he did not know them? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            irishwitch

                            Supposedly he had interactions with women that he had known previously to his recent marriage.

                            And, no, talking is not the same difference as using a prostitute.

                            It is not.


                            I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

                            by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:48:22 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He said he did not know if they were of age and (0+ / 0-)

                            that he had never met them. Do you think that if you have exchanged sexual messages over the internet with someone, you know them? Hell,  you don't even really know what sex they are.

                            I did not say talking is the same as a prostitute. You said talking is the same as using Playboy. I made the analogy that those two things were as alike as using your hand vs. using a prostitute. I.e. Playboy is to hand as phone sex is to prostitute.

                            You must not be in a relationship if you think that a husband or wife considers their mate having phone sex is the same as looking at Playboy.

                            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

                            by sewaneepat on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:25:56 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  My comment said phone sex is a step up (0+ / 0-)

                            technologically from the Playboy.

                            Or whatever gets people's rocks off.

                            There was no positive-negative weight assigned to it.


                            I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

                            by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:07:11 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I know you assigned no positive or negative (0+ / 0-)

                            weight; you said what's the difference.

                            The difference is that one involves another person and one does not. Most people in relationships think there is a difference in one's mate getting off by him or herself  and getting off with another person. You evidently don't.

                            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

                            by sewaneepat on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 12:59:20 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  He said he did not know any of them, had never met (5+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            splintersawry, dfe, Marie, sewaneepat, pot

                            any of them in person. All he knew was what they said on their profile. That is not "knowing" someone for three years, it's sending sexually explicit writing and pictures to a stranger who could be anyone.

                            Which is why, of course, some of them gave copies of the stuff to Breitbart. It was extremely dumb of him to take such risks. Which he has admitted and apologized for. There's no need to pretend it didn't happen.

                          •  how do you (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Marie

                            know his intentions?

                            i think this whole thing is creepy all the way around.

                            and he should be smarter than this, realizing that something like this will get out.

                            i am done with male politicians who jeopardize their standing and influence in order to point their weenies around.

                            in an ideal world what he does sexually is none of my business, but that world doesn't exist, so i blame him for his indulgences because he should know it will get out.  he also gave brietbart status.  with friends like these. . .

                            i also think it is ridiculous to spend time tweeting on the sexual edge when he has lots and lots of things to learn in order to do the job he was elected to do.  if he can't find a psychologically healthy pastime in order to relax, i don't trust him to make good decisions.  he shouldn't even have time for this sort of activity.

                            his behavior was infantile and selfish.  i don't want that sort of person in power and making decisions about the planet.

                            married less than a year and he feels compelled to do this sort of stuff.  yuck.

                            i really liked him.

                            i am anything but a prude sexually, but the reality is these weenies need to accept that they do not have the freedom to wave it around in the world we are now living in.

                            stop justifying his stinky behavior.  

                            I am awaiting delivery of my new DK4 signature

                            by BlueDragon on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:17:12 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  So sending pictures of penises is flirting now?? (6+ / 0-)

                        Wow!! Things have changed since I turned 45!!!

                        I stand in Solidarity with Wisconsin.

                        by adigal on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:01:06 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Men and women (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          kingyouth

                          are very different.  Men are visual (and please do not think I am a chauvinist or a misogynist or whatever).  I self-identify as gay - bisexual on a continuum - mostly gay.  I have been in three long-term relationships in my lifetime - two men and one women.  All three were sexual, sensuous, beautiful and smart persons.  I am over sixty.  I came of age in the '60's - a time of sexual revolution and of a new sexual freedom in the US.  It was wonderful - from my perspective.  I was in the USAF much of that time.  I had more sex than I could ever have wished for.  

                          Human sex is a silly and funny thing.  I believe, and I am a student of Sociology and Social Anthropology, that men are biologically inclined to want to exhibit their private parts (check out all primates - especially Bonobos who share almost all of our genetic structure).I am not saying that civilization does not and should not check these impulses.  But isn't it interesting that males are the ones who are exhibitionists?  Isn't it true that male teens are almost universally obsessed with internet porn?  Isn't it true that male teens masturbate far more frequently than females?

                          Look, my mother was a feminist.  She taught me well. I also have viewed scientific/acadmic research on this issue.  And I have knowledge of much anecdotal evidence throughout my lifetime . I love women and men.  I respect women and men.  But, believe me, I understand Anthony Weiner and I understand men better than I do women.  

                          One more thing.  It is also interesting that the most retentive, homophobic, religious right, male jerkoffs often get into trouble with sex with others - including men in many cases.  

                          •  I understand what you are saying (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            tommyfocus2003

                            and I do see that you write about a lot of truths. And it is also interesting that the most Alpha males get into the most trouble, those genes or hormones raging all of the time, those huge egos, override their common sense. I wish we were more open about sex, but this goes beyond that, I think, with the unsolicited pics sent to women.

                            I am sad, I like Weiner and love what he stands for, but he hurt his mission and our side with this. The world is what it is, and we need to act in the world we have, not the one we wish for. At least that is what I think.
                            Peace,
                            Adigal

                            I stand in Solidarity with Wisconsin.

                            by adigal on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:04:40 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  There is much wisdom in what you wrote (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            adigal

                            and I appreciate the careful attention you gave to this discussion.  I have learned about the greater world during my life from women to a large extent.  My teachers in childhood and even many of my Supervisors in the USAF were female (they were called WAF's - Women of the Air Force back then) due to my career field.  My respect for women and their different wisdom started at my mother's knees and with the nuns who taught me in elementary school.  

                      •  Weiner's Big Mistake (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Marie

                        Weiner's big mistake was to think Twitter and Private went together. This alone, made me reevaluate my estimate of his intelligence.

                    •  No, that's exactly the point. (0+ / 0-)

                      If the media were at all concerned with good governance rather that lurid headlines, there wouldn't be a story.

                      There are lots of stories of stories of dalliances/mistresses/etc of various men in politics, many of which stay behind the scenes or as an eventual footnote in a historical biography. They come out when someone wants to embarrass/neutralize another political player.

                  •  And at least he didn't drag the poor (13+ / 0-)

                    woman (his wife) to stand beside him looking supportive during his public mea culpa.

                •  Do not entirely agree. (14+ / 0-)

                  People who are otherwise very truthful lie about sex.I don't believe lying about sex is an accurate measure of their overall truthfulness. Particularly when a person has a very public record that can be examined as to whether or not they are truthful.

                  Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

                  by Glic on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:03:30 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You can tell a husband who has never lied to his (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Betty Pinson, high uintas, Cardinal96

                  wife. They call him divorced.

                  I don't dislike all conservatives... mainly just the ones that vote Republican.

                  by OHdog on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:05:57 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Every human being lies. Every. One. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TiaRachel, ZedMont, coachster

                  There are those who make a lifestyle out of it, however, as opposed to most of us who try to avoid it as much as possible.

                •  Lie to your spouse (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Cardinal96, TiaRachel, RebeccaG, kingyouth

                  Rare is the person who hasn't told at least a small lie to their spouse. "the blouse was on sale!" but that said, sex and policy aren't necessarily the same thing. Sex is a very loaded subject with embarrassment, shame, compulsions, all kinds of goodies that our puritan mind set has stuffed in there. Policy and politics are a whole other ball game.

                  Further, find me a totally honest politician. Please.

                  "But much to my surprise when I opened my eyes I was the victim of the great compromise." John Prine

                  by high uintas on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:53:32 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  We don't actually know if he lied to his wife. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  irishwitch, TiaRachel, kingyouth

                  He apologized to her, but he didn't say specifically what for.  You could infer it was for engaging in these on-line relationships, lying and seriously damaging the trust between them. That is for them to work out.

                  On the other hand, he may just have been apologizing to her for exposing this part of his life to the world.  It is possible that she knew he did this before we did.  It's even possible that she knew about this habit and was ok with it.  Considering how much porn and web chat, etc. is available online and how much traffic it gets, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that huge numbers of people are doing it. It's not up to us to judge.

                  For me the only thing matters is that he lied to his constituents.  He fessed up.  Now it's for them to decide if he should be re-elected and no one else.  

                  In general, I live by the idea that we are all human and will make mistakes, including lying—even to your spouse.  The idea that if you lied about this, we can treat everything you say as a lie is important in court, but not in life.  Life isn't legal testimony. Life is a living testimony to who you are and what you value.  What matters most to me is what you do and all that you do.  

                  For a congressman, the most important thing you do is vote and fight for ideas and policies that your constituents voted for you to do.  It will surely be more difficult now, for him to rise into greater responsibility, but I'm surely going to give him a chance, if only because there are so few congressmen like him that will truly fight for us.

                  I'm willing to forgive.

                  Would we be so happy to have a military that dwarfs all others combined if it was a line item deduction on our paychecks next to FICA."

                  by Back In Blue on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:59:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I don't know about that. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TiaRachel, kingyouth

                  I know lots of people who will lie to their spouse, but tell their best friend the truth. Why? Because they are not going to get the shit kicked out of them if they tell their friend. There are many reasons why a person will lie to their spouse. I have no way of knowing the lay of the land in their relationship. What I do know is that it takes an incredible amount of inner strength to confess even the smallest visual flick of interest in someone else (no matter how innocent) to someone you love and and in whom you have a huge emotional (and often times financial) investment.

                  My congressional representative is not my spouse. It's an entirely different relationship. I don't care about the Rep. Weiner issue at all; it's not about me. It's between him and his wife, and I have the same opinion whether it's a Republican or Democrat caught in a titillating scandal. As long as he/she is not doing children or animals, I'm completely cool. But I'll be very happy when the country collectively overcomes its attraction to public voyeurism.

                •  Not necessarily. (0+ / 0-)

                  Adultery is an odd thing. I suspect there are a lot of men who would never lie to their employers who lie about adultery. By the way, you've just eleiminated FDR, JFK and Thomas Jefferson among others as worthy of the presidency. ALL had mistresses.

                  The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                  by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:09:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Eleanor and Jackie seemed not to have (0+ / 0-)

                    been uninformed, and as Jefferson's wife died ten years after they married, he may not have even cheated on her.    

                    •  Actually there are rumors that Eleanor was a (0+ / 0-)

                      lesbian and had her own affairs (doubt it's true). I suspect she knew, however. Jackie most likely did unless she was deaf, dumb and blind. And Sally Hemings might not have been his mistress while his wife was alive, but she was a slave, which meant she had no choice.

                      Neither of which change my point.  It is possible to be an excellent president and commit adultery.  Being an adulterer doesn't and shouldn't disqualify someone from holding public office. People often compartmentalize their lives. Someone who is absolutely virtuous in most ways--wouldn't cheat a client, pays employees a decent wage, isn't a bigot--may have an affair.

                      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                      by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:50:57 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Not so sure that one can be (0+ / 0-)

                        an excellent POTUS if she/he has compartmentalized her/his life.  Adultery is not evidence of compartmentalization.  

                        Difficult to speculate about the personal relationships of dead people who chose not to record their thoughts, feelings, etc.  

                         

                        •  Well, I respectfully disagree. (0+ / 0-)

                          I think you need to look at past records. There are plenty of men who have been excellent at their jobs while regarding sex outside marriage as no big deal (for them, of course; I doubt most felt that way about their wife's having sex with someone else). And yes, adultery does tend to be compartmentalized--viewed as not part of real life, just fun on the side. Many adulterers will tell you that having sex on the side doesn't mean they love their wives any less, or wanted to hurt their family.  Basically, sex is removed from the normal rules

                          Oh, and IKE had an affair while abroad during WWII. It's pretty well-documented.

                          I suspect you would disapprove of polyamory even if both were in agreement. I've known open relationships that lasted decades because of the honesty involved. I knew one threesome ( two men, one woman) that lasted at least 20 years. All sorts of agreements work if they suit the people involved.

                          As for me, we're monogamous. It's simpler, and adultery can get you court martialed--husband was  career active duty. I don't have problems with his flirting, however--heck I flirt too. NO pictures of genitalia are involved.

                          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                          by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:43:50 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  IIRC, the Hemings affair started in France (0+ / 0-)

                        where Sally had a choice, but a pretty awful one:

                        1) Stay in France, where she could claim her freedom - but where she knew no one and could not speak the language, and would never see the Jeffersons again, or

                        2) Return to America and slavery, among people and places that she had grown up with.

                        Note: her brother James, who wasn't sexually involved with anyone in the Jefferson household, could speak a little French, and might have been able to make a career in France as a chef, also chose option #2.

                        If it's
                        Not your body
                        Then it's
                        Not your choice
                        AND it's
                        None of your damn business!

                        by TheOtherMaven on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 07:10:31 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  I think the reference is to Sally Hemings (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Marie, irishwitch

                      He never married her, he could not marry her. He owned her.

                      But that was when he was a lonely widower - and there is the curious circumstance that she was his wife's half-sister and is said to have closely resembled her in a darker hue. Some really weird stuff there....

                      If it's
                      Not your body
                      Then it's
                      Not your choice
                      AND it's
                      None of your damn business!

                      by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:59:10 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  too righteous (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  irishwitch

                  Let's just brand adulterers with an A.

                  And cut the tongues out of all liars.

                  “The most important trip you may take in life is meeting people halfway” ~ Henry Boye~

                  by Terranova0 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:40:29 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  My thought exactly - I woke up this morning (0+ / 0-)

            and thought, okay, who is next???  It seems like we are being 'treated' to a monthly sexual, lack of common sense, unethical, immorality parade and I'm very sad to see Weiner fall into the lack of common sense category. He's not an 18 year old frat boy!  He's a 46 year old maker of US law who should have had more sense. I don't want him to resign but I am deeply deeply disappointed at the prospect that we might lose his liberal voice over such stupidity.

            "In Youth We Learn...In Age We Understand"

            by Jbeaudill on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:33:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Is it "worship" or "idolotry" to expect our (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jlukes, splintersawry

          elected representatives to be honest?

          America, the BLUE-tiful.

          by Samwoman on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:33:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Proof that it's not: (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WheninRome, Glic, Cedwyn, Marie
            Not long ago, I listened to Rush Limbaugh opining the fact that there are no heroes anymore, because our culture is so invasive that it's impossible to keep our personal foibles out of the public eye. He said it destabilizes the country.

            I disagree. I'm glad that we are collectively coming to realize the myth of the saint. When we believe in saints, it makes it impossible for us to do the right thing, because we leave 'the right thing' to the saints. 'Who am I to get involved?' we say, 'I'm just a normal person'.

            When I read this passage, I thought of how John Paul II's defenders excused his ignoring the priestly sex abuse scandal that was exposed during his papacy. They were saying that it doesn't detract from his sainthood because nobody's perfect. My answer was, if that doesn't keep him from being canonized, then who isn't a saint?

            Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

            by Judge Moonbox on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:48:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, worship and idolotry is belief that the 'one' (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TiaRachel

            can do no wrong. There are no perfect human beings so why put such an onus on another? Or carry such an unreasonable expectation for yourself?

            Surely do the best to do the right thing for self, but we're each on our own for that: even-steven

            We own our own mistakes not another's.

            "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones."

            by roseeriter on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:20:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I don't care what people do in their (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ZedMont, high uintas, RebeccaG, Egghead

          personal lives so long as it isn't criminal and doesn't involve minors. It isn't idolatry to say that. I'll take a smart, hard-fighting liberal who photographed his dick over a dumb but virtuous one any day. If we eliminated all the ones who had affairs, we'd  eliminate most of the better presidents we've, including Thomas Jefferson, FDR, JFK....On the other hand, Dubya likely never sent a photo of his dick (other than one of Cheney) to anyone and likely never cheated, and he is one of the worst presidents we ever had.

          I don't think adultery or promiscuity is a good predictor of ability to be a Congressman or president or much of anything. Allow me to point out that John Donne was a rake of the first class until he married and wrote a lot of brilliant but bawdy poetry--and he ended up as the Dean of ST. Paul's and the author of the holy sonnets.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:07:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I probably do have some secret indiscretion (15+ / 0-)

        but I don't lie to the one person I'm not supposed to lie to aside from myself.  

        Of all the people whose trust I have violated, I haven't violated the vows I made to my wife.

        Of all the people I have made a promise to, I have not broken that very special and public promise I made to my wife and that's the difference for me.

        It's easy to be faithful to the one person who will have your back above all others.

        The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

        by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:23:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And for that you are certainly to be commended. (7+ / 0-)

          You've saved the both of you a lot of heartache and regret.

          The community of fools might be small if it were not such an accomplished proselytizer.

          by ZedMont on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:30:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If he was single (7+ / 0-)

            it wouldn't make a difference to anyone but the pundits and people who cared about what other people do.  

            He just has to take his lumps now.

            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:34:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  At least he didn`t insist his poor wife (7+ / 0-)

              stand beside him while making his " I have say-end" speech. I`m disappointed in his lack of integrity but also annoyed that reporters  don`t act as aggressively towards politicians responsible for commiting the country to wars WE WERE LIED TO ABOUT!!!

            •  I think it would (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              adigal

              as this doesn't appear to be consentual...ie, if he wasn't married and he sent pictures of his crotch to random women without consent, isn't that totally creepy, almost stalking and wouldn't it matter?

              What is really at question for me now is his JUDGEMENT.

              His choice to send the stuff, his choice to fabricate a story about hacking, his choice to lie about it all goes against his judgement, and because of that bad judgement, I would question his ability to have good judgement in legislative issues as well.

              Blast away.

              Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. ~Thomas Jefferson

              by k8dd8d on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:47:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Define "fidelity", if you can (24+ / 0-)

          Besides the obvious never sleeping with another person, what else does it mean?

          Never flirting with another person?

          Never ogling another person?

          Never thinking horny thoughts about another person?

          Never communicating with another person in any way, even trivially?

          And if you know where you draw the line, are you sure you know where anyone else does?

          If it's
          Not your body
          Then it's
          Not your choice
          AND it's
          None of your damn business!

          by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:09:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Whever the line is (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lura, sneakers563, adigal, LHB

            Anthony Weiner crossed it and if he didn't he wouldn't be doing a press conference apologizing for crossing it.

            Be faithful to the people you promise to be faithful to.  For goodness sake the guy was crying on TV about his mistakes, it's pretty obvious he crossed some line or else he would have told the truth from the get go.

            Please don't do this thing with the definition.  It's pretty clear in this case.

            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:21:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The definition DOES matter. (0+ / 0-)

              People agree on different limits  in their relationships. My husband flirts with impunity. I define flirting as the admiration of a person of the gender that you're interested in sexually, without actually having sex or even petting. It's an acknowledgement that you find them sexually attractive and that if things were otherwise, matters might have progressed further.   He always has, always will. But he always comes home to MY bed.

              My mother, who was with the same man for 67 years, 62 of them married, once told me, "If your father stops admiring other women or flirting a little, I'll check his pulse and call 9-1-1 because hes' either dead on halfway to it."

              Dad never cheated. He DID notice other woman, and he did flirt (very lightly; Dad was  Greatest Generation and a Catholic and a prude).

              To some women even looking at another woman admiringly is a major no-no; forget flirting. I know people who have been happily married for decades whoa re polyamorous--i.e., have an open marriage.  It wouldn't work for me, but it DOES for them. Don't assume that YOUR line is the same as everyone else's, and don't presume to judge someone whose line is different from yours. THAT is being holier-than-thou.  That polyamorous couple, where no lying is involved, may have a richer, deeper, more satisfying marriage than the couple where the wife gets  dared to notice a shapely blonde walking by.

              The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

              by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:26:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Would someone have the Carlin clip? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            royce, Cedwyn, Philpm, RebeccaG
            Besides the obvious never sleeping with another person, what else does it mean?

            Never flirting with another person?

            Never ogling another person?

            Never thinking horny thoughts about another person?

            Never communicating with another person in any way, even trivially?

            And if you know where you draw the line, are you sure you know where anyone else does?

            This reminds me of a George Carlin routine, which I can recall vaguely.

            He was talking about how the Catholic Church taught morality. I can't recall if the key phrase was "feel a fellow," or "feel up Ellen," but it's a sin to think of doing that, it's a sin to cross the street to do that, it's a sin to knock on the door, etc, etc.

            You've committed 7 sins before you've actually done anything.

            Greg McKendry, Linda Kraeger, Dr. George Tiller, Steven Johns. Victims of Wingnut violence

            by Judge Moonbox on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:55:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  If you would be feel betrayed (6+ / 0-)

            if your spouse or partner did it, it's probably infidelity.

            Sending semi-nude pictures of yourself to  objects of your lust is a form of cheating. Cheating-lite, to be sure, but it can easily lead to something more.

            And yes, I have been cheated on--so I admit my bias, but I have learned from the experience.

            Keep repeating the lie until the public believes it is truth: TARP worked! TARP worked! TARP worked!

            by Pale Jenova on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:12:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  If only Martin Luther King had been as saintly (12+ / 0-)

          as you clearly are.

          So many stupid people in the world, and me with only two fists.

          by phenry on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:16:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why am I being mocked for (13+ / 0-)

            not cheating or lying to my wife?  Seriously, why do you take offense to my making the easy choice to not break a simple vow I made to my wife?  

            Help me out here.

            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:26:32 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're not being mocked by me. It takes a (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              stratocasterman

              lot of courage to always be truthful with your spouse, even under the best of circumstances.  Most of us lie at least a teeny bit if only to make ourselves come off as a better person.  I realize the irony there...

              The community of fools might be small if it were not such an accomplished proselytizer.

              by ZedMont on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:32:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Listen (4+ / 0-)

                if my wife asks me if I am mad at her the answer is "no" under all circumstances.  That is a lie because she does make me mad from time to time.

                If she asks me if I like a certain piece of furniture for the house that she bought, the answer is "yes" under all circumstances.  

                I'm not a saint, I'm a man but I don't cheat on my wife.  I'm can't even say he's a bad guy for doing it but he hid the truth from her about it.  I think most people would agree that cheating is the lie of lies and to me that means it's time for Weiner to flail in the wind for a little bit.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:43:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Breaking out the 'Well, I do X right, and take the (11+ / 0-)

              moral high road' whenever somebody else 'crosses the line' and does 'X' wrong is generally seen as sanctimonious, immature and self-serving.

              It's like saying 'Hey, look at me, I'm much better than that guy over there, because he screwed up at 'X', but I do it right!'

              That's probably why you're being 'mocked'.

              •  Self serving (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                k8dd8d, splintersawry

                for what purpose?  What do I gain by doing the easy thing?  

                I think it is viewed as self serving for people that would prefer to have him keep his political career going rather than re-dedicate himself to his marriage.  

                There's umpteen diaries about Anthony Weiner on this site with a range of opinions, I'm not attacking him and for myself being faithful to my wife is not something I deserve any special recognition for, it's easy.

                I do, do it right, like a lot of other people but a lot of what I hear is about politics and his wife is an afterthought and the level of deception that is needed to do what he did is an afterthought and the fact that he is a good mouthpiece with fiery language for the progressive cause is what needs to be preserved.

                I don't buy it.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:33:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think anyone is mocking you, at least not (10+ / 0-)

              for being faithful to your spouse.  I am also faithful to mine and am as certain as I can be that mine is faithful to me.

               I think people are pointing out that plenty of good men who have made significant gifts and contributions to our society were not faithful to their spouses.  (Martin Luther King came to phenry's mind; Thomas Jefferson and either Kennedy come to mine).

              They are pointing out that marital fidelity does not make one a better or worse statesman.  The two are not connected.  They are also saying our marriages are not anyone's marriages but our own.

              "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

              by middleagedhousewife on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:08:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't recall saying anything (0+ / 0-)

                about his ability to be a congressman.  I know I didn't say he should resign.  

                I stated what I believe has proven by Anthony to be a fact.  If you lie to your wife, lying to me won't be an issue.  

                His marriage is not my business but do I have to turn off the TV everytime something like this comes on air?  Do I have to ignore his indiscretions just because it's related to his personal life.

                Am I not allowed to make an assessment of the potential for him to lie to the public based on who he lies to in private?

                Furthermore, I feel comfortable saying that  the contributions to our society made by Martin Luther King and Anthony Weiner are not comparable and I'm sure that both of their wives would have preferred they do their jobs without sleeping with other women.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:27:02 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  did MLK fabricate a story and lie to the (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                splintersawry

                media to cover it up?  My problem isn't that he was (emotionally) unfaithful, it's the judgement he used, in the position he was in.

                Kennedys, Jefferson, etal that you refer to did not exhibit that lack of judgement.  

                Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. ~Thomas Jefferson

                by k8dd8d on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:54:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Jefferson, no, Ted Kennedy? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  k8dd8d, irishwitch

                  Well, look it up -- that was far worse judgment and serious moral failing.

                  I agree that the Weiner's judgment stank (possibly still stinks).  My comment was directed more toward mim5677 feeling he was being mocked for marital fidelity.

                  "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

                  by middleagedhousewife on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:38:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I was thinking JFK, not Teddy (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    middleagedhousewife

                    but you are right there, my bad.

                    Bill Clinton also showed bad judgement, again, not in what he did, but in who he chose to do it with (a young staffer) and how he dealt with the aftermath when it came to light.

                    Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. ~Thomas Jefferson

                    by k8dd8d on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:56:32 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  There was a time when the media (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TiaRachel, irishwitch, NancyK

                  didn't ask those questions. That's how JFK got away with his picadilloes and Teddy didn't (well, besides degree).

                  There's a reason Democrats won massively the last two cycles, and it wasn't because people were desperate for "bipartisanship". --kos

                  by Debby on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:58:13 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  he also got away with it (0+ / 0-)

                    because he, himself used a little judgement and didn't frickin tweet his crotch to a stranger....

                    not that he could of then, but you know what I mean.

                    he made sure there weren't pictures, and they weren't seen in public (the internet is public in my book), and there don't appear to be any letters or evidence that could undo him or his presidency.

                    if they are too dumb not to think about evidence and getting "outed", are they really smart enough to play poker with the other side?

                    Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government. ~Thomas Jefferson

                    by k8dd8d on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:04:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Because you are applying your rigid morality (5+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Skex, TiaRachel, irishwitch, phenry, kingyouth

              or idea of it to other people. And you don't get to do that.

              Anthony Weiner... and his wife... do not have to live by your rigid rules of engagement in life.

              Weiner isn't in the backwoods living some bucolic life of sleepy simplicity. He's a bundle of energy living life in NYC in the fast lane. He thinks fast, he reacts fast, he makes things move. And he works his heart for his constituents and the regular folks in this country.

              Weiner can love his wife with all his heart and have her on a pedestal of love and devotion for all you know.

              His flirting does not remotely diminish that love for her.


              I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

              by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:29:15 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not applying any rigid morality (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MaikeH, splintersawry

                he was the one crying at the press conference.

                I don't look at being faithful to my wife as rigid.
                I don't look at not flirting as rigid.
                I don't look at what he did as flirting.

                Don't attack me for not doing anything.
                He crossed a known line, a line that it appears he and his wife established in private, otherwise there would have been no tears or apologies.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:36:31 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  splintersawry

                  He DIDN'T say, "Hey, I'm a New Yorker; we have different standards than people in other places, and my wife is FINE with it."

                  He DIDN'T say, "What's the big deal?"

                  He had a tearful press conference after having lied about being the target of a "prank."

                  261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

                  by MaikeH on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:08:27 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  So stop throwing stones already n/t (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bronte17, TiaRachel, phenry, kingyouth

                  If it's
                  Not your body
                  Then it's
                  Not your choice
                  AND it's
                  None of your damn business!

                  by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:09:56 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  He flirted. Outrageously flirted. But he did NOT (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  TiaRachel

                  cheat in his love for his wife.

                  He did NOT get romantically involved with another woman. That is the attack on a marriage.  

                  Weiner flirted. 140 character tweet flirts.

                  In your book, that is a rigid line that he crossed. But, many people aren't going to get bent out of shape over it.

                  Flirting is actually an outlet for those people who are more extroverted. I'd label it a pressure valve for them to let off some steam.  


                  I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats

                  by bronte17 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:15:20 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I can't except the premise of what you are (0+ / 0-)

                    saying.

                    You don't get to make up the definitions of cheating or flirting and that's pretty much it.  

                    The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                    by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:14:01 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Neither do YOU get to make up the definitions (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      high uintas, phenry, kingyouth

                      of cheating. FLIRTING to you is cheating. I am FINE with my husband flirting.  And THAT'S pretty much it.

                      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                      by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:33:52 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  You'd be okay if your husband did the things that (0+ / 0-)

                        Weiner did?

                        The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                        by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:45:43 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  DId I say that? (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          kingyouth

                          But no, I wouldn't be divorcing him, either.  He wasn't touching the women. He wasn't planning on meeting them.

                          Also how one defines flirting matters a lot. Ours doesn't include sending naked photos of one's self to women you've never met. It involves a lot of verbal flirtation, including double entendres.  Kind of  close to what Weiner did, minus the pictures. Geeez, we were  Society for Creative Anachronism, and his persona was 16th century Italian. I knew where I could find him--in the largest group of women.  You would likely have fits over removing a navel jewel with one's teeth. I found it hilarious  myself. I've also judged blind-folded kissing contests--and correctly identified my husband when someone challenged me to judge which guy was better--only two candidates, and my husband won).

                          I know women who'd be considering divorce because their husband  spent too much doing that kind of flirting. The thing is, I KNOW what his dick is doing, and I TRUST him.

                          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                          by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:39:39 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                •  You do not know that (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  irishwitch

                  You assume that but let me suggest an alternative to you.

                  The tears and apologies at the press conference aren't for his wife they're for the sanctimonious asshats who don't understand that other people might have different definitions of fidelity.

                  Swingers are some of the most faithful people in existence, They generally don't cheat because they have no need to cheat because they can experience sexual variety with the consent of their mates who get to do the same. They generally have very high levels of trust for each other as such trust is critical to their activities and put far more stock in other aspects of their relationship than the sex.  

                  Yet most vanilla couples consider what swingers do to be infidelity because those vanilla couples have decided to define fidelity primarily in terms of sex and let their own bias cloud their judgement of other people.  

                  I obviously don't know what kind of arrangements Wiener and his wife have, that's their business but I think it's ridiculous to hold them to the vanilla standard simply because that's what the majority do.

                  For all we know his wife could be bi and had been using him as "bait" to bring women in to play with.

                  The reality is that we don't know the details of their relationship and we have no right to know either.

                  I'm not saying he is a swinger, my point is that apologies such as his aren't motivated by guilt over breaking a trust with his wife they are motivated by the fact that he failed to live up to the standard that the public pretends to be the ideal.  

                  This is my problem with this sort of "scandal", The implicit assumption that only the vanilla lifestyle is valid and that only one definition of fidelity matters where as the reality is that the definition of fidelity is the shared responsibility of a couple and frankly not anyone else but their business.

                  Even assuming as is likely that they are a typical vanilla couple it's still not the business of the public. They can work that out between them.

                  Infidelity isn't about sex it's about a breach of trust, but to know whether such a breach has taken place one must first know what the individuals definition of trust is. Are they following the traditional until death does us part we shall not partake of the pleasures of the flesh from any but each other, or is it do what every you want just don't lie to me or something in-between those two extremes.

                  I suspect that in the case of many political marriages it's simply "just don't get caught and embarrass me. Of course if the public could get over their Victorian hypocrisy then it wouldn't be an issue and each couple could work things out as is acceptable to them.

                  •  He said himself (0+ / 0-)

                    that it was inappropriate.

                    You can't just make stuff up.

                    forget it.

                    The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                    by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:44:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Once again (0+ / 0-)

                      He's having to answer to what is presented by the media as the public's standards. We don't know what standards are present in his relationship.

                      In the end it's very simple if we would treat these types of "scandals" as the non-issues they are then such public apologies wouldn't be needed and could remain private as they should be.

                      This is why we can't get any good progressive politicians, because we insist on holding people to ridiculous standards.

                      Dynamic individuals tend to have dynamic flaws, if we constantly throw people to the curb because of those flaws eventually we end up with plain boring conformists who lack any fire in their bellies to affect real consequential change.

                      Think about it if we'd applied these standards in the past how much worse the world would be. No MLK, no JFK, no Thomas Jefferson, no Ben Franklin, no Bill Clinton. The list goes on and on.

                      Progressive men are still men and we're generally all rather juvenile and stupid when we let our small head do the thinking.

                      I admit fully that what Weiner did was stupid and it will harm him politically.

                      I just think it's stupid that our regressive unnatural attitudes surrounding sex makes stuff like this even remotely controversial much less politically damaging and I think it only serves to further the goals of our true enemies when we do the hand wringing concern trolling over this kind of crap.

                      "OMG he has a penis oh the horror" "OMG I think I saw a teet!! call the FCC" "OMG someone used course language I think I'll faint"

                      Grow the fuck up. Sex is a natural part of life, Men and women both tend to gravitate to the subject when opportunity presents itself. To pretend otherwise is to deny our humanity.

                      Molly Ivin's used to say that she never trusted a politician who didn't love whiskey and women(I suspect she would have included men for the female and gay pols but that wouldn't have sounded as good).

                      Her point wasn't that she only trusted alcoholic misogynists but rather that the more sanctimonious the blowhard the more likely it was that they were up to no good.

                      Politicians are human beings and manifest the full spectrum of human traits both noble and base and we have to prioritize and decide which traits are most important to us.

                      Weiner being a sex obsessed horndog does not affect his ability to get up and tear the Republican's a new one.

                      Seriously what's the worse they can say about him?  That hot young women were willing to have cybersex with him?

                      Yeah that's going to emasculate him on the floor (not).

                      This trait of eating our own is a huge part of why the left finds itself powerless in this day and age. Leave the sanctimonious moralizing the the GOP that's their thing and we're not obligated to live up to their standard, particularly since they don't bother doing so themselves.  
                         

                      •  Eating our own? (0+ / 0-)

                        This is a political thing for you.  

                        My dick doesn't have a brain and never has.

                        You are qualifying a lot of bullshit because of who the subject is, so I can't engage with you anymore.

                        Why is Anthony Weiner being put in the same category as MLK?  He has no business being there.

                        The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                        by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:47:24 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  It's not the not committing adultery (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kingyouth

              that's being mocked--but the judgmental attitude.  I know men who would never cheat on their wives--but who are  cruel in other ways, putting her down verbally or being controlling.  Just being faithful isn't the only thing involved in a good marriage. Also, you are condemning anyone who doesn't follow your definition of fidelity, and that annoys ME>

              The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

              by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:30:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You need to stop (0+ / 0-)

                If you look at where this started, which was as a reply to the first comment, you'll see that there was no judgement, no discussion of what people agree to, no declaration that I am better than him, and I certainly in no way condemned anyone that doesn't follow my definition of fidelity.

                Just take the time to do it and if you find anywhere in those comments where I did that I'll eat my words but if not you should probably fess up to it.

                Your annoyed because you didn't read what I wrote.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:03:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I read what you write. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mathazar, phenry, kingyouth

                  It reeked of self-righteousness.  "I wouldn't lie to my wife. I've never committed adultery" was the gist of it. You said that if he'd lied to his wife, he'd lie to you. HOW IS THAT NOT JUDGING?????YOU can't face your own flaw.  You're not a horn dog, but you're self-righteous as any preacher.

                  The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                  by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:41:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Blockquote it please (0+ / 0-)

                    You can't put fucking quotes around my words then say that was the gist of it.

                    The standard for truth is getting pretty flimsy.

                    The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                    by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:47:46 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Your refusal to acknowledge that you're (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      phenry

                      judgmental is pretty ridiculous. I believe the statement that if he lied to his wife, he'd lie to you is word for word. And I am NOT gonna blockquote it because, unlike you, I have better things to do than stick my nose in other people's business.

                      I'd vote for Weiner if I were in hsi district. Hell, I wish I had the chance to.  I am stuck with an asshole Republican Southern Biblethumper.  He'll probably never commit adultery but I loathe the pompous little dickhead for being a holier-than-thou antichoice anti-healthcare anti-medicare asshole.

                      The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                      by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:47:46 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Well what is wrong with that statement. (0+ / 0-)

                        If he lied to his wife, I don't think lying to me would be a problem.

                        You can't seriously expect me to believe that this guy would lie to his wife but not to the public.

                        That's not judgement that's called a hypothesis.

                        The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                        by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:58:20 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Lying about sex is one thing. (0+ / 0-)

                          If he loves his wife but does play on the Net, as he seems to have done, he might lie in one particular situation--and not in others.  People are way more complicated than you think, and life isn't as black and white as you think either. Neither is sex or cheating. My husband never sent anyone a picture of his dick (because he has intelligent concerns about privacy issues) but he flirts a lot more than you'd be comfortable with and I DON'T considier it cheating. Nor do I consider it cheating if three peopel choose to live together, or if there's an open relationship--I am sure you'd object to all thsoe circumstances. I happen to know people for whom all have worked, and who DON'T consider it cheating. WHat youw ant is either to force everyone else to conform to YOUR morality or else demand the right to huff and puf and behave like a Puritan minister salivating over putting Hester Prynn in the stocks.

                          I am not in an open marriage--that wouldn't work for me. But I know happy people who are, and I know kinky couples (we're one of them) who play games you'd likely disapprov eof--I promise no one will make you watch.  

                          And, FYI, my spouse and I select furniture together--he doesn't have to lie about liking it, because if he doesn't like it, we don't buy it.  He also tells me hoenstly if my butt looks big in pants (actually the problem is usually I prefer comfort over  looks).

                          I barely said anything beyond he lied and he cheated and will probably lie to the public.

                          Your own words.

                          WHat youa re demanding here is the right to judge someone else and  whien that their morals aren't the smae yours, while patting yourself on the back over just how superior yours are.

                          DO you even have sexual fantasies about women other than your wife? Most people do. Jummy Carter considers that adultery. I don't.

                          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                          by irishwitch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:18:32 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

            •  My guess.... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              phenry

              ... would be that you're simply being taken to task for using your personal, subjective notions of faithfulness/fidelity as a tacit weapon to bash Weiner and feel morally superior to him, if not gloat.
              The Republican Party thanks you for your support.
              The toaster oven is in the mail.

              "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pensées, #894.

              by maf1029 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:51:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think so (0+ / 0-)

                I didn't bash him, didn't say anything about his ability to do his job.  Go look for yourself, the guy lied didn't he?  That's just a fact.

                Fidelity and faithfulness are not tough, if he was doing something acceptable he would not have apologized.

                I don't think I'm being mocked for anything related to weiner.

                The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:54:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Quite complex.... (0+ / 0-)

                  Maybe, just perhaps, if you weren't using your personal, subjective notions of faithfulness/fidelity as a tacit weapon to bash Weiner and feel morally superior to him, if not gloat, then you would not feel so put upon/oppressed/mocked/whatevs.

                  "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pensées, #894.

                  by maf1029 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:21:02 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I did no such thing (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm assuming that you actually read what I said throughout this thread.

                    If the guy never apologized for it I would not have a foundation to base this on.

                    But again you can't just lie and say I bashed him or say I think I am morally superior to him if I didn't.

                    He's the one trying to recover here, not me.

                    The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

                    by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:25:53 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  I am happy for you and your spouse. (4+ / 0-)

          And I hope this commendable state will continue as long as you both live.
          Nevertheless, not that many people manage to be completely and absolutely faithful for their entire life together. And a lot of them are still good people.
          This has many reasons.
          I have never cheated on any of my boyfriends either (although there were opportunities and temptations) and I take relationships very seriously, I don't need to be married for that.
          But I wouldn't say that makes me superior to anyone else.
          I am happy that I could be faithful and hope I always will be.
          You know, sometimes people lose a sense of how far they've gone and when they should stop (AW didn't, you know, actually have sex with someone else)...but there are other reasons for stepping over the line.
          I don't mean to sound frivolous - I`ve tried to be clear on how important faithfulness has always been to me.
          But we are all human. And I have made other mistakes.
          Even if AW had slept with someone other than his wife I wouldn`t think he is a bad representative, but he hasn't.
          Don't get me wrong, I am not happy with this flirting and then lying- but I think things need to be put in perspective.

          The future is renewable.

          by KiB on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:23:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Never said anything about his job (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            splintersawry

            I do believe that his lying to his wife means he would lie to me(the public)

            That's about as simple of an assessment as I could make.

            The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

            by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:46:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If someone lies it always makes me uncomfortable. (0+ / 0-)

              But it depends on the rest of what I have seen from that person how I interpret his/her general reliability.
              And we are all able to lie.
              There but for god's grace.
              And a lot of people have lied to their spouses about something like that and are still generally good and reliable people. Although I am not saying that it was ok for them to be unfaithful.
              Just sayin'.

              The future is renewable.

              by KiB on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:06:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  most of the people? (22+ / 0-)

        how about all of the people...

        thanks for posting this diary.  as a MA resident, grown somewhat used to what used to be called "pecadillos" (no doubt, emphais on the "peca")- i find myself more interested in how a politician votes than what they consensually do with their junk.

        and i'm sure, they are more interested in how i vote than what i do with my junk...

        "When you're skating on thin ice, you might as well dance." Jesse Winchester

        by The Poet Deploreate on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:53:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He has given aid (14+ / 0-)

        and comfort to our biggest enemy.

        He stood quiet while others defended him, and who are now embarrassed for having done so.

        Sending photos like this is stupid.

        Remember when Dan Quayle couldn't spell potato?

        That stupid.

        Begone, idiot.

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:30:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  wiener voted for the Unpatriot Act (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        goinsouth, tbetz, radmul

        most people have not actively worked to strip your civil rights.  He does not value his privacy or 4th Amendment Rights with his actions, most regular people do.

        •  As much as I like him, I won't miss him. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dan667

          Weiner is gone, resignation or not. He planned to run for mayor of NYC; that's over. Not because of his indiscretions, but because he lied about them. He's now a punch line in NYC, nobody can take him seriously.

          His Congressional district will soon be history; NY state will be losing two districts, and his is now flagged as one that will be redistricted away.  It's a done deal.

          Personally, the only thing I can't forgive Weiner for is that he rescued that motherfucking scumbag Breitbart from the well-deserved ignominy for which he was previously headed.

          You know what hope is? Hope is a bastard. Hope is a liar, a cheat and tease. Hope comes near you, kick its backside. It's got no place in days like these.

          by tbetz on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:25:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The people criticzing Weiner may have (5+ / 0-)

        embarrassing secrets.  What they probably DON'T have is a job making $174,000.00  year plus expenses paid by OUR FUCKING TAX DOLLARS.

        Some of the photos were taken in his office, using government equipment and government paid for communication services. If you or I did that and our boss found out - we would be fired yesterday.

        He's supposed to be serving the public, not sending dick pictures.

        I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

        by bobdevo on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:11:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  And give Weiner a Nobel Prize (5+ / 0-)

        for bringing back dick jokes.

        Er... wiener jokes.

        Weiner jokes.

        Oscars.

        Angry White Males + Crooks + Personality Disorder psychos + KKKwannabes + "Unborn Child" church folk =EQ= The Republicans

        by vets74 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:13:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't want my online history (6+ / 0-)

        trumpeted around and I don't do any cyber flirting of any kind.

        but I sure have other site visits I wouldn't want the world to know about...who doesn't!

      •  I don't condemn him (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jlukes, splintersawry

        I just do not want to have his continued membership in the House continue to provide the GOP an ongoing distraction.  I do not want to spend political energy defending this man every time the GOP wants to distract a conversation.

        Condemnation has nothing to do with it.  Just as condemnation has nothing to do with cutting a second baseman who cannot turn the double play.  It is about one person hurting the team.  

        Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

        by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:22:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What about Barney Frank? (5+ / 0-)

          I think much of what you say could have been said about Barney Frank years ago.  I've forgotten the details of Frank's problem, but the GOP ripped him constantly.  He was their favorite whipping boy.  But I think he has gotten past all that and contributed greatly.  Why can't Weiner do the same?

          •  Maybe he can (0+ / 0-)

            Implicit in my comment above is the assumption Rep Weiner will not be able to ride out the storm in today's climate. If this issue goes away, no, I would not go on a witch hunt to expell Rep Weiner.

            I just do not want to expend political energy defending him when he comes under attack.

            Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

            by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:26:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Rep. Frank (0+ / 0-)

            The G-Rated version: Barney Frank was shacked up with a younger man who turned out to be running an "entrepreneurial venture" with several other young men. This business provided "relief service" to other men in need. Sadly, the manner in which the relief was provided and remunerated was slightly illegal. Rep. Frank had no knowledge of this.
            The Unsanitized Version: Barney's BF was a ho and a pimp and ran his stable out of Frank's home.

            "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." - Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pensées, #894.

            by maf1029 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:02:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You continue to throw away (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Quicklund, irishwitch, RebeccaG

          Players because they make mistakes and eventually you have no team.

          The solution to this problem isn't to expect our politicians to be saint's but to make it perfectly fucking clear that we don't care what they do in private as long as it's not illegal.

          Simple as that.

          This is something liberals have to stop doing if we're going to regain any power in this country. We have to stop validating right wing memes.

          In cases like this one we have to say "so what? does that change how he votes? if not piss off".

          If people react to stories like this with boredom eventually such dismissal will become the norm and the media will stop concentrating on this kind of shit and will be forced to find some other distraction to keep from doing their job of reporting real malfeasance.  

          •  No matter what, you cannot keep a bad 2nd baseman (0+ / 0-)

            As I said in my other reply, if Rep Weiner does ot come under a lot of political flak for this, then fine.

            But I feel that is very unlikely.  So when he does become a drag on the overall Party, I will not expend energy defending him.  He lost that level of support when he lied.

            Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

            by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:28:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This isn't about Weiner (0+ / 0-)

              this is about not letting our enemy burn every leader who steps forward. By buying into the idea that this really is a scandal that merits consideration you are validating their meme.

              Stop it, what you and those like you are doing is far more counterproductive than Weiner's misbehavior. You are basically giving the GOP a hunting license that can be used to bag any democrat that they find to be inconvenient.  

              Yeah it would be nice if we could find a bunch of moral paragons to represent us but the truth is that such people are pretty much fiction, and even if they did exist they'd get chewed up and spit out by the political machinery anyway.

              Perfection is too high a standard. I mean should we ask for Kucinich's resignation because he believes conspiracy theories about UFOs?

              No because one kooky belief does not invalidate everything else he stands for.

              Does Anthony Weiner's rant about the GOP plan to dismantle medicare become any less truthful because of this?

              No it doesn't.

              Attacking his positions and arguments based on this non-controversy is the ultimate Ad Hominem. His behavior (yes even the lying about it) does not undermine his policy positions. It simply isn't germane to the conversation.

              I'd rather have a total cybersexting perv who's with us and willing to stand up and call the crooked bastards on the right the low down bunch of lying criminals they are than some whinny afraid to step on any toes fake liberal any day of the week.

              •  Weiner lied. He burned himself (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mim5677

                No one made him lie.  We can't pin this one on the other team.

                Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

                by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:17:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How fucking stupid are you? (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm not pinning this on the other team. I'm talking about us eating our own out of some stupid Victorian morality that WE DON'T STAND FOR.

                  WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH IN THE HANDS OF A VERY SMALL MINORITY? WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE DESTRUCTION OF THE MIDDLE CLASS. WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE.

                  The list goes on and on and on and on about the things this has nothing the fuck to do with.

                  Sexual misbehavior and lying about it is so unimportant that I can't believe we're actually having this conversation.

                  •  I don't know. What does it have to do with that? (0+ / 0-)

                    Why is the political fate more important than that stuff?  Beats me.

                    The Republicans are going to beat up the Democrats on this. Does that make it right?  Right?  This is politics.

                    Once again, this isn't about masturbation.  I tis about the fact he lied about the situation for weeks. That caused the party damage and obviates his expectation for party support.  No one made him lie.  

                    He blew it.

                    Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

                    by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Republican's are going to beat up Dems no (0+ / 0-)

                      matter what, so why do the work for them?

                      Seriously didn't we learn anything from Monicagate?
                      The majority of voting democrats don't care what our guys and gals do in the bedrooms.

                      Hell the GOP are still livid they impeached Clinton and for all they got him for he'd have still curb stomped anyone they could have run against him.

                      Funny how similar the situation is that was the refrain from the GOP and all the hand wringers then too. "it's not what he did it's the lie"

                      Screw that lying about a question that should never have been asked shouldn't count.

                      Whether Wiener was sexting with female fans or not is one of those things that the media shouldn't be wasting their or our time on to begin with.

                      Accepting that the issue is worthy of even discussing validates the media's dereliction of duty in covering this story in the first place.

                      Our answer and the answer of any democrat to any question like this should be "We're not the ones telling people how to live their private lives so I'm not going to glorify you're question with an answer.

                      Notice the GOP doesn't have this problem at least they keep their eye on what matters to them and damned the personal hypocrisy of their elected officials in private as long as they carry water in public.  And THEY are the ones telling people how to live their private lives. and don't give me this "they didn't lie about it" damned right they lied about it right up to the point where they were caught red handed which is when the tearful apologies and and candid confessions come out.

                      Like I said this isn't about Weiner it's about letting our political enemies derail the conversation from those things that really are important through the use of Politics of Personal Destruction.

                      Or are you really so naive as to think that the media would have dropped it if he'd fessed up immediately? Yeah right. If he'd done that then the handwringers would be over here talking about how awful sexting was.

                      I'm just so sick of wishy washy hand wringers who simply reinforce the conservative stereo-type that the left are a bunch of effete wimps who are going to faint the instant things start getting serious.

                      (BTW my apologies for the title of my last reply I got a bit over-amped there)

                  •  And (0+ / 0-)

                    in fucking case the fucking "too fucking stupid" has rubbed off on you, I will fucking ask if you fucking realize I am fucking not fucking calling for his fucking head and/or his fucking fucking head on a fucking platter.  I fucking am simply fucking saying he fucking has lost any fucking  expectation that the fucking Democratic Party would fucking defend him from fucking criticism.

                    Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

                    by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:45:17 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  sorry, shared humanity doesn't require us to lower (0+ / 0-)

        the bar of acceptably non-stupid behavior for our elected reps.

      •  just about everyone has some stupid thing (0+ / 0-)

        I believe most people criticised Weiner because he was a jerk off in public.  He appeared to be one of the best and the brightest, but he trashed everything he supposedly stood for by lying in public.  The Twitter stuff was a tempest in a teapot, but his bizarre confrontation with the media showed a man who either has lost his sense of reality or a person who is a deeply cynical opportunist.

        And besides....if I go out in the middle of Time Sqare and take a shit in broad daylight and then say well, I can't say for sure that is my turd....is the story really about WHY people criticize me?

      •  There is very little outrage over this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        splintersawry

        from the same people who would be screaming if a republican sent pictures of his penis to young women he doesn't know very well. The sexism of this bothers me. And the lies. And how incredibly arrogant he is, to think he can get away with this in this day and age.

        It seems like even the good guys are arrogant jerks, filled with hubris. It takes them down every time.

        I stand in Solidarity with Wisconsin.

        by adigal on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:52:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  We're not important enough... (0+ / 0-)

        ....to have a high-tech lynching done on us like Weiner had done on him by Breitbart's mob of scumbags like Stack, O'Keefe, et al.

        9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

        by varro on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:10:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Secret indescretion! Yeah, tweet your dick (0+ / 0-)

        now that is some secret indiscretion!

      •  Most people don't publish their indiscretions (0+ / 0-)

        online.

        Never put something on the internet you don't want in the newspaper tomorrow. If someone is staking you and does that to you, that's another story, but being stupid enough to put it out there yourself while in public office?  That's like sticking a firecracker up your behind and lighting it stupid.

        I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.

        by Futuristic Dreamer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:37:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  it isn't the indiscretion (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bluesteele31

        most people on here, if he'd come out immediately and said, look, here's the deal, myself included would have said, well, between him and his wife, nothing to see here, don't really care.

        But when he went on the attack, talked about being hacked, lied about it, then hedged about it, then once more information came out finally copped to it, it was a combination of lying AND acting stupidly about the whole thing that made me question his ability as a leader.

        I can think of all sorts of folks who have all of the right, liberal, left-leaning ideas, who are all-in-all good people, but I still don't want them being an elected leader.

        Not my call as to whether Weiner should remain one, that's for his district, but I think I and others have a right to have an opinion about the guy that is tinged with disappointment and a bit of incredulity over his choices post-scandal.

        I agree with you, we've all got skeletons we don't want out, but once the cat's out of the bag it's time to come clean, and he did the opposite of that in a clumsy fashion for way too long. It was the clumsiness from an otherwise clever, intelligent and elegant speaker that had me skeptical from the start.

      •  Don't rush to throw our advocates overboard (0+ / 0-)

        He hasn't stolen any money nor betrayed the public interest nor taken food out of the mouths of children nor sent granny onto an icefloe to fend for herself.  Like the Republicans.  To whit he hasn't been cruel or betrayed his public responsibilities by advocating for poliices that hurt people.  

        When it comes to resigning one's elected office that is the standard we should use.  If any other standard is used  -- like unbecoming to the reputation of the House is a standard that is a standard that would throw out scores and scores of Congressionals.  Stupid choices is also too broad a standard.  

        By the standard of who is fighting for progressive values,
         I think we stand behind him.

        Debra "But what I have concluded over the years is that talent is universal, but opportunity is not." SOS Clinton

        by debcoop on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:21:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  True enough (15+ / 0-)

      We all have our failings if not "that secret thing" about us that we don't want anyone else to know about.  

      That being said, unless there's some crime here, Weiner deserves to be judged by the voters.

      My beef is with him initially coming out with the wishy-washy denials.  I think Weiner has been a terrific progressive Congressman so I wanted to and DID believe him.  

      Now, I feel taken in.  He's apologized and I, and others, will need time to accept it.

      "Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove." P.G. Wodehouse

      by gsbadj on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:28:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Weiner isn't the issue (22+ / 0-)

      Please lets turn our collective attention to the corrupt and felonious behavior of Clarence Thomas. Isn't that what this is really all about?

      I should put something smart or witty here, but can't think of anything.

      by onionjim on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:57:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The lion is now toothless, however.. (20+ / 0-)

      He has lost all credibility.  How in heaven's name can he ever go on one of his famous self-righteous rants again?  He can't.  It's all bullshit from this point on.

      Whether he resigns or not, he's done.

    •  Sullivan is completely WRONG about *this*: (23+ / 0-)

      "Yes, I realize that one congressman recently swiftly resigned over a Craigslist shirtless pic,"

      How many times must it be said? Chris Lee did not resign over a photo.

      He resigned over a Craigslist ad in which he advertised himself as a single swinger looking for sexual hookups with transexuals, among others. He placed this ad in spite of being a married, Christian Conservative Representative from upstate New York (where his wife was waiting for him patiently.

      The photo was only the illustration.

      Do NOT continue to fall for the GOP false equivalency.

      They say "cut back" - we say "fight back"!

      by Louise on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:53:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you... (0+ / 0-)

        I had not read that story in any detail so I didn't know that. It certainly explains his swift resignation! He has a big story unfolding in his own personal life, after being outed within his own family and community. He did not want the details becoming part of the story... and apparently he has mostly succeeded. Which in the grand scheme of things normally would be ok with me... he's gone from congress, let him deal with the rest of it privately. Fine.

        But when people now think about that most recent scandal involving a congressman and the fact that he resigned, and compare the situation with Weiner's current snafu... it's true that these details make all the difference. Lee had a whole closet full of stuff he was hiding that got exposed. I think with AW, as long as what we have learned so far really is the entire truth now, it's different in terms of his choice not to resign.

        AW's actual sexual behavior was certainly less serious on the scale of bad behavior ... cheating on one's spouse, being a hypocrite in every aspect of his life, Lee was much worse by far, and had more reason to resign.

        The problem with AW, I think, is not the sexual behavior itself... I find it interesting to observe how differently people react to what he did, from "it was nothing, really" to "it was extremely pervy and icky, highly inappropriate, it was still cheating on his wife, even though no physical contact occurred," to "no different than flirting, a diversion, not a big deal" ...

        sexting with strangers... adult women (he assumed) who he has never met in person, online 'fantasy' relationships... to me, not a huge deal, whatever, for those who find it fun, but if hidden from one's spouse, a serious breech of trust. Mostly because of the danger involved in sending pictures and written communications of that nature to a stranger... risky for anyone, IMO, and extremely dangerous for anyone whose job and income risk being lost if discovered, and for an elected official to do this, it is beyond 'dumb' and dangerous risk-taking... it is difficult to understand why he would take such risks! And then to add insult to injury, he goes on a media tour to tell ridiculous lies for several days, which compounds the problem immensely.

        It shows extremely poor judgment, which is a fair thing to hold a congressman accountable for.

        The cost to his effectiveness as a congressman is more about the loss of the moral high ground and his reputation as a 'stand up guy' -- it's not about whether or not it's pervy or creepy to do what he did sexually/personally. For someone with nothing to lose, I can see how it might be fun and a relatively harmless distraction. I can also see how people think sexting and internet/phone sex fantasy relationships with people you don't know at all, while hiding it from your spouse, is unacceptable behavior.

        For the vast majority of people, I don't care, it's their own business. But for an elected official, I think we have a right to expect them to not take such stupid risks to our investment in them as our representatives. I guess I'm really on the fence still about if he should resign or not. I can see both sides of the argument, and my feelings go back and forth. I'm still working through it all, but for now I'm coming down more on the side of he should resign. But I also think if he doesn't, given time, this will all blow over and he can eventually be an effective congressman again, if the voters in his district decide to give him the chance.

        •  Lee resigned THREE hours after that story broke (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Wee Mama, TiaRachel

          By the time that most regular news media picked it up - including internet portals - Lee had already quit.

          How it worked was this way: A staffer on intern art Gawker saw Lee's advertisement in Criagslist and recognized him. They informed Gawker. Gawker printed the story.

          Lee's wife saw the story. All hell broke lose in Lee's personal; life. He got an ultimatum: quit Congress. Give up that apartment. Move home NOW.

          This is completely un;like what Weiner did - which is what more and more men are finding they have the freedom to do. Wife is out of town - time to play online. it's not really cheating, they believe, because only the imagination is involved, no pressing of flesh (at least not of someone else's flesh.)

          They say "cut back" - we say "fight back"!

          by Louise on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:31:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed... (0+ / 0-)

            Lee's story is different. Entirely.

            As for whether it's cheating or not... as I said I understand the various viewpoints.

            If my husband did it, I would feel that he had deceived me and taken inappropriate risks with our life, whether he touched anyone or not.

            But I understand the rationalizations that married men would tell themselves as to why it's not really cheating. As I said I see both sides, but that's not important when it comes to whether AW can/should remain in congress. Well, gotta run to work now... thanks again for interesting comments and discussion.

        •  pretty much I agree with you (0+ / 0-)

          For Weiner it will be loss of moral high ground in a certain sense, and it will take a decent amount of time for him to live down the snickers.  He's not going to be, and shouldn't be, doing any awesome take-downs of right-wing bullshit for a very long time.  I have no doubt that's why people started digging into his online doings in the first place, and -- yay for them -- they got what they wanted.

          In the long run there's no reason he couldn't be back to more or less his current effectiveness, and I wouldn't begrudge him the chance to try.

          Except that it appears he really did send Genette Cordova that picture unsolicited.  She'd have to be lying herself for that not to be true, and I'm just not going there.  That's despicable, and he deserves his time in the doghouse and then some for it.

      •  truth spoken, thanks (0+ / 0-)

        if only some reporters would report this

        America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

        by cacamp on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:53:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Sullivan is likely wrong (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jethropalerobber

      sending semi-explicit pictures to random people is considered harassment in many jurisdictions.

      That is his biggest issue and Democrats ignore that fact at their own peril.

      "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

      by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:58:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See, here is where I am stuck..... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maf1029

        To whom did Weiner send the pic? Surely not every one of his followers, and how did Breitbart get  it?

        •  Actually, apparently it was visible by more (0+ / 0-)

          than he intended.  But it's like accidentally flashing a passing bus when you intended to only flash one person you (vaguely) know.

          He didn't intend for everyone else to see it, which is why he panicked when he realized what he'd done.

        •  He stated in his press conference he sent (0+ / 0-)

          it to Gennette Cordova without her consent, and deleted it after thinking about it more.

          "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

          by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:24:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Assuming he sent it to Miss Cordova....... (0+ / 0-)

            How did Breitbart get it?

            And that is what I would assume, unless he messed up and forgot to limit addressees, and if he did limit it.....isn't that like an IM or an email?

            •  they were following him on twitter and (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              WheninRome, pot

              he  publicly tweeted the message.  He was trying to send it privately and inadvertently made it public...

              "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

              by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 01:11:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  A picture of yourself without a shirt or in your (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        maf1029

        underwear is "semi-explicit"?????

        Are you a member of the Catholic clergy?

        •  Yes...sorry to break it to you. (4+ / 0-)

          I tell you what, if you are male, drop your pants, take a picture of your private parts through your underwear and text it to every female AND male in you contact list.  If you are female, feel free to do that same.

          Let me know if they consider it semi-explicit or think of it the same as a fully clothed picture.

          Surely you jest...

          "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

          by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:27:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Flirting? (11+ / 0-)

      Hey, Miss -- look at my dick?! Oh, you flirt!

      No, this not flirting as I understand it.

      I didn't intend the above as a factual statement.

      by Bensdad on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:18:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Weiner should resign (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maf1029

      As soon as Senator "diaper lover" Vitter and Governor Mark Sanford resign.

    •  You should update with Sullivan's (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      splintersawry

      further reflections, thusly:

      Thanks for all the emails on Weiner. Reading them and thinking this through some more overnight, I think I was too brusque in dealing with the fact that he lied. We are all human, and I'm with Dan Savage on the core issue of "same old horniness, brand new box." But lying so consciously to his constituents over an embarrassment and lying to his wife does begin to trouble me in the light of a new day. Yes, he copped to his lies. And he has been humiliated enough. But still ... if we do not try to hold elected officials to telling the truth, what basic civic standards are we prepared to defend?

      /snip

      Am I going to get on my high horse and say he should quit his job because he lied? No. But the public trust is gone - which is essential for a man in elected office. I think sexting is a function of hormones and fallibility; I think lying and instructing others to lie afterward is a function of bad character. Yes, the cover-up convicts him in a way the non-crime never did.

      Do you disagree or agree with his thoughts?

      Progressivism, like conservatism, cannot fail. It can only be failed.

      by tomjones on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:13:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Breitbart's Next Gambit (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tommyfocus2003

      In her TV interview this morning with Matt Lauer, Breitbart revealed another X rated picture in his collection, to be used if Weiner attempts any retaliation.   Breitbart's gossip and hack-attack occupation includes malignment and extortion.  Weiner had to call for the cards to avoid private extortion, and take away Breitbart's poisoned daggar.

    •  I liked your diary and it made me start to rethink (0+ / 0-)

      my loudly voiced (to my husband and on Daily Kos) view that Weiner should resign.  But even though I partly agree with you, I'm not entirely convinced.
      I really don't care about the pix or the to & fro with a half dozen women -- that's between Weiner and his wife.  Since he's not part of the purity party, there's no hypocrisy involved in his behavior.  
      My problem was with the days and days of him claiming he was hacked, allowing supporters (like me) to dig themselves into a hole defending him, damaging his and our wing of the party's credibility.
      If he had taken his time (a full day, even) to respond to the accusations, that would have been fine.  He could have had tweet-sex, phone-sex or f2f sex so long as he didn't lie in response to questions.  He didn't have to answer with details -- an "it's none of your business what I do in my private life" response would have been just fine.  (Maybe an apology but only for accidentally making one tweet (one tweet!) public would have been useful).  
      But covering up and stringing his supporters along was just not right.
      I'm left with very mixed feelings about him.
      Tipped & rec'd for a thought-provoking diary even though I don't entirely agree with you....

      If, in our efforts to win, we become as dishonest as our opponents on the right, we don't deserve to triumph.

      by Tamar on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:52:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  709 comments (0+ / 0-)

      No need to read them because apologists rule here. Look, the SOB LIED. He is compromised and will be bought by the highest bidder, said corporate interest/lobbyist becoming his most important constituent. He has to go. I rest my case.

  •  It's a silly scandal (55+ / 0-)

    Vitter likes prostitutes. He doesn't resign, even though his campaign platform is the total opposite.

    Weiner did some stupid, childish things in his personal life. Who cares? Now, show me he took a bribe for a vote or violated an oath of office and I may post the exact opposite.

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:21:37 AM PDT

  •  What is unforgivable is that a person says "Vote (21+ / 0-)

    for me and I will fight for you" and then that person goes and does something that he/she has to realize will essentially make it impossible for anyone to ever believe them again and yet they still say I want to represent you.

    I think they are really saying I don't give a Flying F*** about you or your issues. I care about my career and therfore I am not going to resign even if this means you will never really have someone representing you until you can vote me out of office.

    The fact that virtually all of them are just like this doesn't really change the ethics of the issue.

    •  Get out outta my head! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Victor Laslo, Matt Z

      That is exactly what  was thinking. If he was your employee and his personal conduct no longer made him useful or productive, what would you do? I really fel he's lost his effectiveness.

      To me personally this is no big deal. But still a stupid thing to in this digital age.

      The Internet is forever!

      "A slut is a woman with the morals of a man."

      by Diamond Jim55 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:34:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh go stuff your self righteousness where the sun (22+ / 0-)

      don't shine.

      This is why we can't get decent people with a willingness to fight into public office. The self righteous prigs like yourself expect them to maintain a standard that's unrealistic.

      I didn't care when Clinton was getting blow jobs in the Oval Office and I don't care if Wiener sent some chick a pick of his dick.

      And I don't care if he lied about it. Yeah lying about it was stupid but pretty much every person who's ever had an affair has lied about it it just goes hand in hand with that kind of behavior.

      No laws were broken hell no actual sex even took place.

      As to the "lying" there is a huge difference between lying about something that's personally embarrassing and lying about say dismantling medicare.

      •  The point is that if the guy seriously was in (5+ / 0-)

        Public Service to do Public Good ( as opposed to being in Public Service to do himself some good ) he wouldn't engage in stupid acts which would render him ineffective were he to be caught.

        So the truth about Weiner is simply this.  

        He was not in Public Service to do Public Good.

        Why do you suppose there no longer are any poor people in Public Service?

        Public Service has simply become a Public Trough and it attracts what troughs attract.

        •  WTF? (15+ / 0-)

          Before I tell you why I think there are no longer any poor people in Public Service, why don't you tell me WHEN the last time there were poor people in Public Service? And then I can tell you that since the SCOTUS voted to let corporations buy our elections we'll never have a poor person since that date you may or may not produce.

          Do you think that poor people somehow have some greater morality than the wealthy by what....? The simple virtue of being poor? Poor people never cheat on their spouses or engage in inappropriate flirting? Poor people are somehow more angelic than the wealthy. Puh-lease. I'm pretty damn poor and am given to the same human faultiness and frailty as anyone out there.

          Rep. Anthony Weiner has used his turn on the floor to fight for the better of his constituents and his whole country again and again. And that's the only behavior I really need him to hold to.

        •  Weiner had the guts to take on Thomas and (11+ / 0-)

          you think he wasn't "serious"? That is just too flawed to believe.

          Wiener has guts. He also is a bit arrogant to think that he could do this without consequences.

          I wish he were my congressman. Mine is laying low because he never does anything for the people of his district .He just a time server.

          You guys don't read much history apparently  because the lives of the Founders would be  a little too messy for most of you to handle.

        •  Uh, no. (7+ / 0-)

          In the realm of public service, IMO Anthony Weiner meets all criteria.  

          If this incident forces his resignation from the Congress, it will be a Congress with one less true public servant.  

          You've concluded that he was in public service for his own good.  

          I see no grounds for that at all.  

        •  "Why do you suppose there no longer are any poor (5+ / 0-)

          people in Public Service?" Might have something to do with the fact that it costs several millions of dollars to run for even a state senate seat, not to mention the US Congress or Senate. Can you spell "Citizens United"? I'm not defending Weiners' stupidity about this, but I don't believe for one second that this incident means he was not trying to do the "Public Good". Weiner has been a solid progressive vote on most issues, and represents his district well. The theme of the poor being more moral and deserving has been done to death. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that no one class or race or nationality has a birthright of moral superiority. Most people are really pretty decent, and about 10% to 20% are assholes. That cuts across all lines, imo. So lets all try to let the voters in his district decide if he should be re-elected. Personally, I hope they do re-elect him. He has been a "better democrat" by my standard.

          •  I would change your 10%-20% comment a bit (0+ / 0-)

            "Most people are really pretty decent, even though most of them do a few really, really stupid things at some point in their lives, and about 10% to 20% are assholes, even though they do a few really, really good things at some point in their lives."

            We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

            by Samer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:33:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  It's not your caring or uncaring that matters. (5+ / 0-)

        The previous poster's point had nothing to do with his or her puritanicalness or yours.  

        It has to do with the simple fact that Weiner knew when he got caught he'd be practically neutered in getting much of anything done.  As a mere member of the House his most effective role was as spokesman for liberal causes, not just casting one of hundreds of votes on legislation.

        And his stupidity got that most effective role taken away, as he knew it would.  

        He knew he'd be caught eventually.  And he knew when it happened he'd lose his effectiveness at the one thing he did well for all of us.

        The Democrats set the Rules of the Senate. Don't like the President's nominee's being filibustered? Don't forget who could have kept it from happening. The Democrats. Why didn't they? They didn't want to.

        by Rick Aucoin on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:37:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of us would be pleased to (12+ / 0-)

      be represented in the Congress by a reliably liberal vote like Anthony Weiner's.  

      Only some of us are.  A vast swath of the U.S. electoral map is red.  Often a very deep red at that.  Occasionally those districts are represented by married, family-values Republican Senators or Reps who for example pay hookers to wrap them in diapers.  The same level of outrage does not appear to be registered if the offender is Republican.  

      Sending a lewd photo to a consenting adult is "unforgivable" if the sender is a Congressman -- on grounds that it nullifies his intent or ability to represent a congressional district?

      Uh, no.

      The fingerprints of Andrew Breitbart are also introduced as evidence to suggest that venomous partisan shitwork is far more the point than any ethical question about sending a photo of your pecker to a consenting adult.

  •  Sorry, don't agree. (18+ / 0-)

    If you are in the public eye in the information age there are some things you need to have a clue about. AW clearly does not.

    Additionally, I believe this speaks volumes about judgement and the arrogance of power. He's not some twenty something that does not know better, and there's been plenty of recent examples of this kind of thing going terribly bad (Farve, NY-26). He thought he was special and would get away with it.

    For making Breibart appear legitimate, I will NEVER, EVER forgive him.

    Is he criminal--definitely not, but he should not seek re-election. He is far more of a liability than an asset at this point, and no--this will not go away. Why? Because the pictures are out there, and pictures like this never die.

    His wife should file for divorce tomorrow.

    You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

    by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:25:30 AM PDT

    •  I dunno... (7+ / 0-)

      Weiner mainly "discredits" us or anything about us other than our forensic IT skills among people who won't even credit Obama with being American or the rest of us with anything good.

      He should just rehab himself and then get back on the horse.

      If Weiner's a liar on one thing, then Republicans are Weiners on just about everything.

      by monkeybox on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:32:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  maybe I'm glad we can't get married in most states (10+ / 0-)

      and please don't come to Iowa looking for me.  There are a lot of different kinds of marriage, just like there are a lot of different definitions of what constitutes disloyalty.
      My favorite definition is abandoning someone who has stood and fought for you and my values.

      Open, but not gaping..

      by sgary on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:36:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with everything you said except (12+ / 0-)

      the part about his wife divorcing him.
      A good marriage can weather far worse - believe one who has experienced far worse in their marriage and pulled things back from the brink.

      "Superstition, idolatry, and hypocrisy have ample wages, but truth goes begging." - Luther

      by Cartoon Messiah on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:08:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If they had been married for (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bwintx, Matt Z, splintersawry

        a decent period of time, then you might be right. They're barely past their honeymoon. This is a huge red flag if I ever saw one. If she was my daughter, I would tell her to run, not walk, to the nearest exit.

        Yes a good marriage can survive a great deal, but this is way too early for these kind of shenanigans.

        You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

        by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:14:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But you're mixing things up (0+ / 0-)

          Talking about what this means in terms of supporting a politician makes sense and I, for me, you were on the right track.  I think he screwed up big time in terms of how he handled this.  He left his supporters hanging; all the people who took his word for being hacked and wasted their time digging for the evidence and then being basically humiliated for doing so.  That's how he betrayed us, the political community on the left.  I can easily say, screw him, I'll never publicly stick my neck out for him again.  He hurt the whole party with his bungling denials and there is such a deep and obvious track record of how NOT to handle these things.  

          But then you get into this "his wife should divorce him," crap and you're completely changing the subject.  We might as well be on People Magazine's website arguing about who is dating whom and who should divorce whatshisface.  That's personal business between two individuals and you muck up the conversation about the relationship between the politician and the public.  

          Forget it, he's rolling.

          by Sun dog on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:13:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I beg to differ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            splintersawry

            How many women in public office run into trouble like this?

            How many men? And, how many of these men trot out their wives for cover at confessional press conferences? When is that going to end?  As a man, I am embarrassed for my sex, and the apparent complete lack of self control that so many male politicians seem to possess.

            From all accounts Huma Abedin seems like a talented, hard working and well established woman--you don't think she's insulted by this behavior which all but disregards her existence after just one year of marriage? I think it's equally appalling and it adds to my moral revulsion to AW, which you seem to share. I think it relates because it substantiates the case that he's a man who seems to think he shits ice cream.

            You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

            by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:26:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I do not think it is our place to tell her (12+ / 0-)

      what she should do.  She must be allowed to make that decision for herself in her own time. It is none of our business.

      His wife should file for divorce tomorrow.

      "Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox. "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." The Little Prince

      by Jane Lew on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:41:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't want it to be my business, (0+ / 0-)

        but it's public now, and what she chooses to do says something.

        Aside from that, don't you find this pretty outside of a normal transgression--especially one year into a marriage?

        It's pretty weird, and I can't imagine that she is not mortified right now.

        I expect some garbage like this from Charlie Sheen, but come on...

        You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

        by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:17:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Many marriages have survived (7+ / 0-)

          far worse than this. Some have even become stronger because they were tested.

          I would hope this one could also survive. I think it is far too easy to give up and leave. She may want to fight for her marriage; if so, more power to her.

          I don't think that one year into marriage makes a marriage any less a marriage.  A marriage is a marriage whether it be of a day or of 70 years.

          BTW my 41st anniversary is on the 13th of June.

          "Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox. "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." The Little Prince

          by Jane Lew on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:40:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I've been married almost 20 years (0+ / 0-)

            and I don't see it that way at all.

            He does not deserve it. He could not possibly have put enough time in to make it worth it for her to stand by him in such a stupid thing.

            I think it makes a huge difference. The first few years is easy.

            You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

            by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:51:20 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is only for his wife to say whether (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ezekial 23 20, TiaRachel, Egghead

              he deserves it or not.

              It is their marriage, not ours.

              Your wife is lucky to have someone as true as you.

              "Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox. "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." The Little Prince

              by Jane Lew on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:48:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm lucky too, (0+ / 0-)

                but the point that I seem to be failing to make is that she probably did not think that this is what she married, and I doubt that she would want to stay married to it.

                If this is not all the story, and he may not be--there are others. If true, he is truly reckless.

                You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

                by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:15:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The problem is that you're guessing. (0+ / 0-)

                  You're speculating about the feelings of someone you don't know at all.

                •  We can not assume what she knows or thinks. (0+ / 0-)

                  Somewhere I read he was once known as "Romeo." She may well have known his proclivities and married him anyway.

                  seem to be failing to make is that she probably did not think that this is what she married,

                  I hope Rep. Weiner uses what happened to get serious about his personal life and grow up and take care of his responsibilities.

                  They will have their best chance if they receive professional help.

                  I do believe a person can change...if he wants to.

                  "Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox. "But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." The Little Prince

                  by Jane Lew on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:43:20 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  I don't know about the reelection part (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z, CrissieP

      and the divorce part....particulalryl the divorce part, she we don't know her at all....but the rest...yeah.

      Avg. Medicaid cost to New Jersey: $1936 per child per year. Avg cost of helicopter commute for Governor: $2300 per hour. Guess which one Christie wants to cut back on?

      by Inland on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:43:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't agree with much of what you wrote... (6+ / 0-)

      But I rec'd it for this...

      For making Breibart appear legitimate, I will NEVER, EVER forgive him.

      There's no underestimating the damage Weiner's done to this already precarious political media environment by proving Breitbart right.  This guy had been on the ropes because of his participation in ACORN and Shirley Sherrod, and Weiner just gave him the shot in the arm he needed.  Anthony Weiner may not have saved Breitbart's career, because I think he's too controversial a figure to be ignored, but he gave him the tiny bit of legitimacy he needed he get his foot in the door in more media outlets.  It's beyond unforgiveable; I feel betrayed, not for the juvenile sexting, but for the political boneheaded handling of the scandal that has set the Democratic Party and progressives back when we needed to be strong.

      "The struggle against power 'is the struggle of memory against forgetting.'" -Milan Kundera via Bill Moyers

      by Imhotepsings on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:00:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And there it is... (12+ / 0-)

      "For making Breibart appear legitimate, I will NEVER, EVER forgive him."

      To you and so many others, this isn't about Anthony Weiner's goofy virtual flirtations, and isn't about his very human response to being nationally HUMILIATED, it's about making you look bad for believing it to be a Breitbart hoax.

      Very human of you.

      Weiner extended his apology to people like you and me, by the way. I accept it.

      I don't think Lee should have resigned, I don't think Sanford should leave, I don't think Frank should have resigned, nor Franklin (yes, Ben), nor Jefferson, nor Kennedy, nor Roosevelt, nor Boehner if Mike Stark finds he has indiscretions - and geez, Mike will you leave it alone!

      I don't care. About any of it. Privacy is disappearing and what you'll find behind EVERY human being is something that can make him or her look REALLY bad.

      Consider: Donald Trump owns hotels (or has interests in them), and famously admitted that he has cameras in the rooms of the Plaza...for "security."

      So if a political enemy stays at one of his, or any other partisan hotel owner's hotel, and gets caught on camera masturbating?

      Also, and HBO special on porn claimed that hotels make more money on porn channels than on room fees. This is particularly true for business class hotels. Think about that. You think the hotel management can't find out who is watching porn? And, hmm, I wonder what people are doing while watching it...

      Do we really want society to go there? Do we really want to self-destruct over our own hypocrisy, demanding of our elected officials behavior levels to which very, very few of us could ever achieve?

      Consider: suppose Sarah Palin got caught by TSA carrying a vibrator onto a plane. Would that make you feel good? If you (speaking collectively, not to you, Frank) said "Yes!" then you have more issues than she does.

      Perhaps Weiner is emasculated, in which case, he should step down. I doubt it. He's a fighter.

      •  When you send pictures out into the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CrissieP

        Twitter environment, that's reckless judgement. It's not all the same as jacking off in a hotel. That's a real stretch and if you can't see the difference, I don't know what there is to discuss.

        You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife, and you may ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

        by FrankCornish on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:38:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You think? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          royce

          Well, if you did the latter, it's probably on video.

          Now, that would go down well with your constituents!

        •  Your continued moral outrage (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          royce, TiaRachel

          and ranting suggests that you maybe but him on a pedestal? I am very uncomfortable with passing moral judgements on people for conduct that I am very capable of myself. If you would never engage in this type of behavior, bravo for you. But it does NOT give you the right to pass judgement on another in the manner you're piling on here.

          I agree with the poster that called you "sanctimonous". It is not a good look...

          "In the battle of existence, Talent is the punch; Tact is the clever footwork. Wilson Mizner -7.25/-5.64

          by mikejay611 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:51:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I don't know that I've ever agreed with a (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel

        comment of yours before, but I agree with this one 100%.

        •  Jedi mind trick (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ezekial 23 20, TiaRachel

          Or maybe, we're not as far apart on most things as both of us assumed.

          In any case, I'm done with the anger and the fighting and the constant my-sidism.

          Peace to you, seriously.

          Bob

          •  Love your books, still crazy a real life popular (0+ / 0-)

            author posts on dKos! Icewind Dale trilogy is still one of my favorite book series ever. It is about time to dust the huge book off and reread them, its been many years.

            Democrats who enable implementation of Republican policies do more to destroy the Democratic Party than anyone. - Big River Bandido

            by pot on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:04:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  The issue is not what consenting adults (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Camussie

        do in their private lives.

        It is sending semi-explicit pictures to people you know without their consent.  Democrats attempting to circle the wagons ignore this at their own peril.  Unless Genette Cordova requested the pictures and has lied to the media, and Weiner lied again in his press conference, the potential harassment is the biggest issue on the table and Democrats should be very leery of deeming such behavior acceptable.

        "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

        by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:40:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wiener explicitely said (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TiaRachel

          these flirtations were consentual.

          You're bringing up an issue that hasn't surfaced, therefore, I am not addressing it. Does sexual harrassment apply in this case? I don't know - haven't heard anything about it.

          if so, that's a different issue and one I will not excuse, i promise you.

    •  I disagree, he's very good at his job and we need (0+ / 0-)

      more, not fewer, like him. We can't afford to throw this particular baby out with the bathwater. Especially since it was stupid, but it was a minor, personal stupid, not official, or corrupt stupid. Let his poor wife deal with it how she will and leave him alone. Flirting and sexting are pretty low on the continuum of bad things, not nearly enough to lose someone like him over. For us, at least, what his wife chooses to do or not is between them.

      Breitbart makes himself illegitimate on a regular basis and will continue to do so, just wait 5 minutes, he can't help himself. Being correct this once was a fluke, we can always point that out if we want. His body of work will continue to speak for itself.

      Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. The Druid

      by FarWestGirl on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:06:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He'll Find Out Who His Real Friends Are.... (23+ / 0-)

    We only have Bernie Sanders, Sherrod Brown & Alan Grayson to speak for us now.  Plus Nancy Pelosi, of course.

    Rep Weiner needs to repair his marriage & then get back to work.   Clarence Thomas still needs to be impeached.  

  •  Your use of the word "lion" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, FarWestGirl

    makes me think of Ted Kennedy.

    Did you intend the analogy?

  •  Everybody has some kind of darkness (21+ / 0-)

    in their lives which, if intensively "researched" can be discovered. I know I do. For example, gentle me  was once in a psychiatric hospital for tranquilizer addiction. That could be twisted into a very dirty scandal.

    In this case, I think it was Breitbart's timing of the release of the pictures which conincided with Clarence Thomas' "document dump" showing his financial disclosures. These two great articles trace the Breitbart/Thomas connection all the way back to Thomas' confirmation hearings.

    At the same time a young man named Andrew Breitbart watched the Thomas hearings and had an epiphany of his own. He credits the treatment of Clarence Thomas, and a daily dose of Rush Limbaugh, with converting him to the cause of conservatism. In fact, Breitbart’s latest book is dedicated to Clarence Thomas, and he grows verklempt relating the story of the time Ginni Thomas introduced herself to him....

    A Letter from Congressman Anthony Weiner:
    In February, 2011, armed with all these concerns, and anticipating the release of Thomas’ 2010 financial disclosure forms that would reveal Ginni Thomas’ Liberty Central income for the first time, a Congressman drafted a letter that was co-signed by 74 members of Congress, taking the issue of recusal and conflicts of interest directly to Clarence Thomas’ door ...


    http://www.angryblacklady.com/...

    and this one:

    Lost in the Weinerblitz: May 27 and the Clarence Thomas SCOTUS scandal

    http://blog.reidreport.com/...

    •  Wishful thinking (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RhodaA, Loge

      The Thomas stuff, no matter how much you want it to be, just isn't a scandal and will never be a big deal.  

      •  Only because the MSM has "shut it down" (7+ / 0-)

        Probably also congresspeople fear any backlash, i.e., "Weinergate."

        There's a Petition to impeach Thomas (it's linked in one of those two articles), and when you read it, there is definitely, IMO, enough information and fact cited to cause an upheaval.

        •  PS: Aside from his financial disclosure, (6+ / 0-)

          Thomas is the one who is truly lascivious, starting with what we know about Anita Hill. His past is much more provocative and nasty than anything Weiner did.

        •  meh.. there's no there there.. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Loge

          Y'all have blown this Thomas thing into something way bigger than it really is.  Thomas isn't going anywhere.  He didn't fill in some forms.. every year for several years.  The Court never did anything about it, nor seemed to care.  He broke no laws.

          This is really silly, especially after his biggest critic (Weiner) has now gone down in flames.

        •  I just don't think the arguments are terribly (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RhodaA, Loge

          strong, so I was unsurprised when the story quieted down.  He screwed up disclosure, he fixed it, and that's where it ends.  

          None of the recusal stuff seems convincing: everyone knew his wife was a conservative lobbyist, and everyone knew how he'd rule in CU, and we all know how he'll rule in the PPACA challenge.  Like Reinhard on the 9th circuit held, you can't find a recusal-worthy appearance of conflict when you know in advance that the judge's ideology will compel her to rule this way or that.  No one could sanely make the argument that if it weren't for Thomas's wife's vocation he'd have ruled the other way on either CU or the upcoming PPACA case.

          re: the independent expenditures from CU supporting his nomination: Thomas didn't solicit them, so he shouldn't be prejudiced by it.  I haven't seen any solid evidence (case law or ethics opinions) that, in the absence of some statutory requirement, an independent expenditure would require recusal.

          •  I don't know (0+ / 0-)

            No one can know unless it's investigated further. But I'm not dismissive of it, and I'm also not holding my breath for anything to happen.

            Here's the source:

            "New Information Reveals Thomas Invested In Lobbying Firm Tied To Tea Party and Engaged In "Judicial Insider Trading" To Enrich His Wife"

            http://www.protectourelections.org/...

            In its May 22, 2011 letter to the FBI, ProtectOurElections.org asked the agency to investigate the timing of the founding of Liberty Central because it appears to be a case of judicial insider trading by the Thomas family to enrich themselves through the Citizens United decision. Now, the ProtectOurElections.org is calling on the FBI to also investigate Liberty Consulting since it appears that Justice Thomas and his wife created the company to raise funds and pay Mrs. Thomas a salary and benefits, and then shut the doors with no explanation or accounting of the budget.
    •  Makes me think of Spitzer. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RhodaA

      Some republicans are not stupid.  They get dirt on someone, they save it to use at the worst possible time for their opponents.

      I have to give Breitbart credit for twisting the (self-inflicted) knife at just the right moment.

  •  I am deeply disappointed in Representative Wiener (6+ / 0-)

    I believe Representative Wiener is a highly intelligent and articulate man. I found him to be an excellent spokesman for many of my beliefs. Should he resign? I answer with a definite no. Should Representative Wiener run for office in 2012. Again I answer with a definite no.

    Nothing is gained from Wiener resigning his seat. If there was another election, then that election will draw attention away from the issues of the budget and unemployment, harming the country. However, in 2012 the last thing I want is a discussion of Wiener's incredibly poor judgment. I do not want to see his position on spending cuts and taxes branded with the poor judgment of sexting. I wonder if Wiener is living in a bubble and has not heard of how once on the Internet always on the Internet. I wonder how could an otherwise intelligent man do something we warn our children not to do. Do not take suggestive pictures of yourself and send them on a cell phone or place those pictures on the Internet. How can the guy be so stupid?

    And then there is the lie. If Wiener had simply admitted, I am an ass hole for sending this and other pictures, then I would have felt he possibly could have run for reelection. But to lie about such a stupid issue to the press, ranks right up there with dumb and dumber. Why oh why didn't Wiener realize that anyone but a network expert can easily be caught in such a lie? Yeah Breitbart is a flaming douche bag, but for Wiener to somehow believe his lie would not be seen through is nuts. The whole thing with Wiener admitting that this may be a picture of him, but he didn't know when he damn well knew is incredible.

    Next there is the "full responsibility" bull crap. All he had to say was what he did and that he was a stupid ass hole for doing it. Did Wiener think anyone else was somehow partially responsible for Wiener's admitted actions? Of course he is fully responsible. Who else could be? Certainly his staff weren't. Certainly his wife wasn't.

    Finally there is apology bull crap. Yes he owes us and the press an apology for lying about this. Yes he owes us an apology for being so stupid and acting in a stupid way. He does not owe his wife a public apology. To somehow think a public apology to his wife is adequate or necessary somehow strains his credibility to the breaking point.

    Bottom line to Wiener is stay in the House; keep your mouth shut; and do not run for reelection

    Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.

    by LWelsch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:02:15 AM PDT

    •  Bad Weiner did it. (0+ / 0-)

      Even though this Bad Weiner did stay in his pants.

      Angry White Males + Crooks + Personality Disorder psychos + KKKwannabes + "Unborn Child" church folk =EQ= The Republicans

      by vets74 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:15:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting how the tone and tenor of your post (0+ / 0-)

      is so at odds with your sig.

      This was too small a thing for us to lose him over. He did something stupid, he panicked and lied, he's a man, it happens all the time, this is just a bigger stage than most.

      Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. The Druid

      by FarWestGirl on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:14:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The very fact that Weiner acted stupid on top of (10+ / 0-)

    stupid is what I take away from this.  All the defenders of this stupidity can back him to the hilt.  I will reserve my limited amount of resources to those who can speak for me without turning into idiots.

  •  What i find odd & unique about this entire ... (11+ / 0-)

    ... debacle is Breitbarf's and his minion's antagonism directed toward AW.  Obviously with AW claiming he was hacked, casting the accusations as BS would be one source, but its much deeper than that. I made the mistake of reading several posts on BB's biggovt.com website and the posters were absolutely euphoric about the news. Completely beside themselves with glee. Who feels that way about something like this? Who sits on the photos for weeks PRIOR to the tweet, and then tells the world that you have more pics that you will be releasing slowly over time?  

    I understand the concept of slowing down to look at the car wreck as you pass, but you dont roll down the window and cheer and highfive everyone in your car.  Is it because AW is a pugnatious, tough talking, take-no-BS Democrat?  That BB finally gets a story right after his selective editing on the Shirrod and ACORN stories?  That AW went after The Teap Party Gawd Glenn Beck's last remaining sponsor, Gold Line?  I really dont understand these people.

  •  If I did something like this, (9+ / 0-)

    as a teacher, I would be fired. I believe elected officials should be held to the same standard.

    "There must be more to life than having everything" -Maurice Sendak

    by lilypew on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:25:05 AM PDT

    •  Sexting with another adult (6+ / 0-)

      would get you fired?  Seriously?

      •  On a school computer? (0+ / 0-)

        Most definitely would that get a teacher fired. Whatever office equipment policy a school has and however computer "fair use" is defined, the line is always drawn at porn consumption and sexting.

        I've bought shoes from my office at school and thus violated the "private use" policy, but had I been caught, hardly anyone would have cared. If I had bought a sex toy, however, I would have been fired, and pronto. Whether one agrees or disagrees, that's how it is.

        261.A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience. -Ferengi Rules of Acquisition

        by MaikeH on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:35:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  without the consent of the other adult? (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, that would get you fired. If you don't believe me give it a try.

        "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

        by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:41:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wasn't aware (0+ / 0-)

          Weiner didn't have the consent of these women (which would be a true comparison).  Is there a link for that?

          •  The women denied last week and again yesterday (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            leftynyc

            http://blog.seattlepi.com/...

            Gennette Cordova, the 21-year-old college student ensnared in a lewd Twitter controversy with Rep. Anthony Weiner, said Monday she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”

            She made the denial via Twitter just seconds after Weiner, a congressman from New York, admitted during a press conference that he sent Cordova a photo of his crotch. He also admitted to having relationships with several women online — but said he wouldn’t resign from public office.

            “He has had six inappropriate relationships with women online in the last three years,” Cordova wrote on Twitter. “If it wasn’t clear, I was not one of them.

            Another Twitter user accused Cordova of lying Monday, saying the congressman said he interacted with her before. She responded: “Did I miss the part where he said we had inappropriate exchanges? Because that never happened.”

            "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

            by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:18:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's what I thought (0+ / 0-)

              Consenting adults.

              •  huh? maybe you didn't read the comment... (0+ / 0-)
                “He has had six inappropriate relationships with women online in the last three years,” Cordova wrote on Twitter. “If it wasn’t clear, I was not one of them.

                "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:23:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm missing something (0+ / 0-)

                  I haven't heard one woman - including this one - say Weiner's attention was unwelcome.  If this all was between consenting adults, I only see a problem for him and his wife.

                  •  Maybe you are mixing up the woman (0+ / 0-)

                    I will highlight the relevant parts for you again.

                    Gennette Cordova, the 21-year-old college student ensnared in a lewd Twitter controversy with Rep. Anthony Weiner, said Monday she “had zero inappropriate interactions with him.”

                    She made the denial via Twitter just seconds after Weiner, a congressman from New York, admitted during a press conference that he sent Cordova a photo of his crotch. He also admitted to having relationships with several women online — but said he wouldn’t resign from public office.

                    “He has had six inappropriate relationships with women online in the last three years,” Cordova wrote on Twitter. “If it wasn’t clear, I was not one of them".

                    Another Twitter user accused Cordova of lying Monday, saying the congressman said he interacted with her before. She responded: “Did I miss the part where he said we had inappropriate exchanges? Because that never happened.

                    There was a women on tv yesterday who did consent and was basically entrapping Weiner.  I could care less about that and I would be right there circling that wagons for him.  But when you send pictures as jokes to woman unsolicited, you have crossed a line where I can not try to justify that behavior. It is wrong. Period.

                    Now if it turns out she is lying, that is a different story. What consenting adults do is between them.

                    "Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book - you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem." - Senator Obama, 9-16-2008

                    by justmy2 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:13:06 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Where do you teach? (0+ / 0-)

      Early 20th Century Rural America?

      •  I teach in Ohio (0+ / 0-)

        and we were given an "Educator's Code of Conduct" manual. One high school administrator was pushed into leaving his job because he published some poetry on his website, he used an psuedonym on the site, that was seen as too sexual.

        "There must be more to life than having everything" -Maurice Sendak

        by lilypew on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 01:01:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree to the same standard, not the firing. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TiaRachel

      I don't give a shit if teachers 'sext', and I'm willing to bet more than half the high schoolers out there already beat the teachers to the punch on it.

  •  Gary Hart sank out of sight (15+ / 0-)

    Gary Hart, the putative grandfather of sex scandals, let his scandal end his career. (Or maybe the public was more easily shocked back then and made it impossible for him to go on.)

    But Ted Kennedy had a long and highly respected career after Chappaquiddick. And Bill Clinton won re-election to the presidency after being caught in a lie about his affair.

    Whether Wiener just kneecapped himself remains to be seen. It depends on how he conducts himself from here on out.

    Did he learn anything? I hope he did, but we won't know for certain for a while yet.

    It strikes me that the real fallout here has less to do with Wiener's future than the unfortunate legitimization of Breitbart. I suppose that if he'd kept on, Breitbart would have hit upon legitimate liberal funny business sooner or later. It was just Wiener's misfortune to be the one who provided it.

    •  Breitbart is akin to the broken clock being right (6+ / 0-)

      twice a day.  Hitting on something real after a career of making things up must have been a pure accident.

      Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

      by J Edward on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:12:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'd say Breitbart is more like a broken calendar, (0+ / 0-)

        right but once a year, and unfortunately, right for the entire day.

        The Republican motto: "There's been a lot of progress in this country over the last 75 years, and we've been against all of it."

        by Hillbilly Dem on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:27:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Kennedy's name helped him; Weiner's name (0+ / 0-)

      will not.  I can't see him recovering from this.  

      Speak softly and carry a big can of tuna.

      by Cat Whisperer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:28:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Kennedy had a long and respected career as a Senator, but he was finished on the national stage.  The last name was enough to allow him to survive in Massachusetts.

      Bill Clinton did NOT win re-election, it broke during his second term.  Arguable, had he resigned, Gore would have been elected President in 2000.

      Weiner has the disadvantage that he is apparently not that well liked on a personal level by his colleagues.

      Finally, with NYC apparently going to lose a Congressional district, wanna bet on who the leadership is going to cut loose?

      I don't know that Weiner really is in control of how this plays out.

      The best pizza comes from New York.

      by JakeC on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:01:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with this sentiment entirely. (5+ / 0-)

    I am beginning to think that hotshot politicians must be addicted to risk. This was monumentally stupid and personally embarrassing but not illegal or even hypocritical.

    But really a stupid risk to take with the political capital he'd gained.

    Let America be America Again - Langston Hughes Rick Santorum

    by TheFatLadySings on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:28:26 AM PDT

  •  He's lost his ability to be a lion for liberalism (5+ / 0-)

    Every time he speaks now, the media will mention this scandal in relationship to him.  Instead of talking about the issues, they'll be talking about the scandal.  And this news will drag on through the House investigation and Lord knows what else may come out.  And I really can't forgive the lying, sorry.  He strung us along for a week with his lies.   If he wants to stay in office and try to wait it out, so be it, but he can never be the kind of powerful congressional spokesperson he once was.  I just don't see it happening, as much as it saddens me to say that.  

  •  Good post (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick

    I agree with it with the exception that minors can not be involved.  That is the other shoe I fear may drop.  It's awful hard to know who you having a internet dialog with.  I am not accusing the Congressman of anything but I hope for his sake that no minors were involved.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:35:32 AM PDT

  •  He should have lied (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elsaf, kyril

    It's the deserved response. He shouldn't have unlied.

    and I wait for them to interrupt my drinking from this broken cup

    by le sequoit on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:41:00 AM PDT

    •  I think Breitbart forced his hand (0+ / 0-)

      I suspect that the picture Breitbart is saying he held back is something Weiner couldn't have recovered from.

      I suppose I'm saying that Breitbart blackmailed him into retracting his lies.

  •  Didn't just post a shirtless pic (5+ / 0-)

    That guy, whatever his name was, was lying about his identity to hook up.  He was defrauding the targets, and going much farther.  

    More like, if VItter and Craig won't resign...

    Avg. Medicaid cost to New Jersey: $1936 per child per year. Avg cost of helicopter commute for Governor: $2300 per hour. Guess which one Christie wants to cut back on?

    by Inland on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:41:50 AM PDT

  •  his conduct is sleazy, and he doesn't (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence, Lura, Cat Whisperer

    deserve to hold a seat in Congress any longer.

  •  Well said (6+ / 0-)

    I'm disappointed that he wasn't smart enough to realize the right would be ready to pounce on any wrongdoing but he's always been there for his constituents via his voting record.  I stand behind him and hope his family and career can survive this.

  •  he's wrong (5+ / 0-)

    weiner's bad judgment is a big deal as are his lies. what he was doing was idiotic beyond any justification for someone in his position.  even disregarding any personal judgment of him, the man can't be taken seriously now and will be ineffective in his job.

    he will eventually resign, and the sooner the better.

  •  I am chastened (0+ / 0-)

    But Anthony Weiner's first obligation is to his wife.  Second is to his constituents.

    I don't think he should resign although he will be greatly disempowered and hopefully that will be temporary.  If he were to resign I am not sure what that means for all NYers in terms of the financial burden of a special election plus it leaves NY-9 without representation.  Now if the voters in NY-9 start calling for resignation that is a different story.

    As for the mayoral race, there are a lot of strong candidates.  Weiner isn't even on my radar (GO John Liu!) and there is much speculation but nothing concrete.  In addition to the usual suspects (Quinn, DeBlasio, Thompson) I have heard Marty Markowitz's name bandied about and a theory that he can win the primary based on his personality insofar as he is on a first name basis with two million people in Brooklyn so what's another seven million or so.

  •  I am So disappointed. (4+ / 0-)

    In this day and age, sending out shit like this, he's got to be dreaming. IDIOT. If he were standing in front of me, I'd cock punch him. F'n hard.

    We need this, riiiiight?

    OBAMA got Osama, bitchez.

    by OleHippieChick on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:52:07 AM PDT

  •  oh, to be able to (11+ / 0-)

    bottle and sell self-righteous indignation:

    Take back your donuts! Weiner should be divorced and resign! I am DONE WITH HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
     

    I can't think of a better way to run people off and encourage them to bail on Democrats.  You want us now to vote for people who can't do ANYTHING sexual, once they take office? Ever? Good grief, find yourself a whack fundie group and go join their church. You might as well. You see what such piety does to guys like David Vitter, right?

    If you've developed a puritanical streak out of FEAR, the GOP wins. And so does the "media". Me, I'll be watching to see how long it takes for Anthony Weiner to ever utter the words "Clarence Thomas" in a public place, ever again. We better hope he is not cowed by this, because if he is, the evil that slimes around DC just won big yesterday, and showed us just exactly how pervasively our system has been corrupted beyond repair.

    REPEAL the Telecomm Act & REVIEW this decision. NO journalist should be fired because their boss can't have the truth told.

    by lunachickie on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:54:34 AM PDT

    •  Right on! (6+ / 0-)

      The problem, as you correctly point out, is "the evil that slimes around DC". Granted, Weiner never should have taken or sent those pix in the first place, but the fact is that until it can be proven that his stupidity constitutes a criminal act, we all need to just STFU about this thing.

      This "scandal" is a tempest in a teapot and will eventually blow over. What needs to become a true tempest is just how corrupt our system is, corrupt to the point where one person's career is in jeopardy because of some stupid pix he sent to a consenting adult (as far as we know, she is), while another can slime his way into a seat on the SCOTUS, leaving people bleeding and broken in his wake. Put the two side by side and you have the perfect picture of just how f*cked up this country really is.

      -6.75,-5.51....And the greatest of these is Love. I Cor. 13:13

      by alliehope on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:14:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Again, it's not about WHAT he did, it's about (0+ / 0-)

      LYING after he was caught, attempting to slander others and then lying AGAIN in his confession (sending the pic was a joke, give me a break!).  It's about loss of trust for whatever comes out of his mouth from now on.

      Insert pithy and/or elitist comment here

      by splintersawry on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:46:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's about (0+ / 0-)

        media manipulation.

        It's also about this:

        What needs to become a true tempest is just how corrupt our system is, corrupt to the point where one person's career is in jeopardy because of some stupid pix he sent to a consenting adult...while another can slime his way into a seat on the SCOTUS, leaving people bleeding and broken in his wake.

        But you just go right ahead and stop trusting Anthony Weiner,  if that makes you feel better.

        REPEAL the Telecomm Act & REVIEW this decision. NO journalist should be fired because their boss can't have the truth told.

        by lunachickie on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:58:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Weiner abandoned his supporters and constituents (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence, gulfgal98

    By lying to them and inventing a conspiracy of hackers to cover up for his own wrongdoings.

    And with Pelosi calling for an ethics investigation, I really think we'll end up finding out there's more to this unless Weiner resigns quickly.

    Can politicians behave like 10 years old and lie their way out of embarrassments? Sure, like anyone else. Do they pay a price for it? Absolutely. A bigger price than a basketball player, an economist or a truck driver? Sure and rightly so. Credibility matters more for a politician than for a normal citizen.

    As President Carter said during the 1979 primaries "We've had some crises where it required a steady hand, a careful and deliberate decision to be made. I don't think I panicked in the crisis". Ted Kennedy did and for that he was never POTUS. Weiner did and for that he'll see his district gerrymandered out of existence.

    •  OTOH we may just find out that's all there is (0+ / 0-)

      and maybe that's why Pelosi is calling an investigation - to find out precisely how far this goes.

      By the way, you're now far over the line into the kind of denialism that buried the all too real existence of the "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" until it was so obvious that no one could deny it any longer.

      If it's
      Not your body
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      AND it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:33:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Aided and abetted the enemy (0+ / 0-)

      David Frum last night:  that Weiner  drummed up the charges against Clarence Thomas.  The stupidity of David Frum was bringing it up since the press has managed to completely ignore Clarence Thomas' lies on his financial disclosure that greatly affect what cases he should be recusing himself from.  

      Anthony Weiner has aided and abetted the enemy.  He has given cover to Andrew Breitbart by accusing him of hacking and letting the entire liberal netroots find ways to make that true.  He hasn't destroyed our ability to be effective against the enemy, but he's weakened us when we can little afford any setbacks.  He has given them a tool to pound us with.  He has strengthened them, he has weakened us.  Why can't these jackasses just get a date?  
       

  •  Try telling your wife that sending a picture of (18+ / 0-)

    your tumescent totem pole to six strange women via e-mail is just "flirting".  

    It's good that you have Weiner's back.   His front appears to be a dangerous place to stand.

    Alëwi nulinao hnàkay.

    by SpamNunn on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:59:37 AM PDT

    •  lol (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rick Aucoin, Matt Z, barbwires

      "His front appears to be a dangerous place to stand."

      I did pause for a moment as I wrote that, but my righteous indignation short-circuited my sense of humor.

      Thanks for the laugh.

    •  Brings back a memory from a while back... (0+ / 0-)

      "...I would be laying in a pool of my own blood, hearing Mrs. Armey standing over me saying 'how do I reload this damn thing?'".

      Moderation in most things. Except Reactors. IFR forever!

      by billmosby on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:23:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, calling this "flirting is an understatement. (0+ / 0-)

      Especially since it is was with women he never met.  I think Weiner needs counselling.  It's like he was looking for some kind of outlet for exposure that he thought he could get away with; that didn't involve face to face contact.

      The fact that he has some kind of sexual problem doesn't mean that in every other way he is  untrustworthy.  But at the least, when you are in public office, you must realize that you can't act out certain behaviors.  That's not expecting sainthood.

      A little flirting would not be out of line, but this was not what I would call flirting.

  •  If he ever thought Weiner jokes were bad he (0+ / 0-)

    will learn how bad it can really get the rest of his life.  He has gone from being a leading spokesman to being a national punch line.  Even thinking about such wanton behavior in his position is stupid.  He can no longer do the job he wanted to do and should be gone since his oaths mean so little to him. When you can see right through somebody you should at least appreciate the view and not be scoffing at what you see.

    Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

    by J Edward on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:05:22 AM PDT

  •  So it's OK to lie and deceive if we like you (14+ / 0-)

    Yeah, I think that's about it

     

    I'm glad that we are collectively coming to realize the myth of the saint.

    So it's a myth that people stay married faithfully? And don't sent people pictures of their genitals?What a  marriage you must have---my wife wouldn't believe it for one minute if I was trying to justfify my sending suggestive pictures of me to someone else by saying sainthood was a myth.

    Happy just to be alive

    by exlrrp on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:06:53 AM PDT

    •  I don't think the diarist is saying it's ok. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      itsbenj, TiaRachel

      This is about perspective.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:42:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  BEENGO!!!!!!! Nail, meet Hammer (0+ / 0-)
      my wife wouldn't believe it for one minute if I was trying to justfify my sending suggestive pictures of me to someone else by saying sainthood was a myth.

      Nor should she believe it.

      Our elected representatives are to SERVE we the people.

      they aren't. they elevate themselves so some sort of elitist status (probably has something to do with all the bribes, errrrrrr, I mean campaign contributions they get from corporations).

      Repuglicans; FAIL.

      Democrats; FAIL.

      there's no moral or ethical "high ground" here... it's a giant waste of time to think there is.

      "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

      by Superpole on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:52:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, it's simply not relevant to the job. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fiddlingnero, TiaRachel

      I don't hire politicians based on their sex lives.  I hire them to solve problems like climate change.

      Do you go to a dentist based on what he does with his schlong when he's not working on your mouth, or do you choose him because he knows how to fix your teeth?

      I don't think even any of the Republicans 'should' resign based on their sex scandals.  I think they generally have to because of the views of the people who DID vote them in, and know they can't get re-elected after pretending to be a saint, then getting caught groping a random stranger in a bathroom.  Not because of MY beliefs, but the beliefs of the stupid Republican voters who voted them in in the first place.

  •  Some voter reactions (11+ / 0-)
    Voters in Rep. Anthony Weiner’s home district in Brooklyn and Queens shook their heads in disbelief about the news that Weiner tearfully admitted to posting lewd photos of himself to women online. But most said Monday he would — and should — politically survive, saying they had voted for him before and would again. The seven-term congressman may have done something dumb, voters outside his Kew Gardens district office, said, but it wasn’t criminal ...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

  •  I've got his back-too! (0+ / 0-)
    No Quitter over Twitter!

    "A liberal is a man or a woman or a child who looks forward to a better day, a more tranquil night, and a bright, infinite future." ~Leonard Bernstein

    by lyvwyr101 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:12:12 AM PDT

  •  Intelligent People Occasionally Do Stupid Things (13+ / 0-)

    Just like everybody else.  Look what Bill Clinton did.  He was a Rhodes Scholar.

    Like Andy Sullivan said, no complaints of harassment or abuse against Weiner.  He didn't actually cheat on his wife, and please spare me crap about "emotional" adultery.  Adultery has only one definition and what Weiner did fell short of that definition.   Moreover, he did this stuff for three years and never once got together with any of these women to follow through on the mutual teasing.

    Let him take his lumps and get back to work.  Extreme embarrassment and humiliation is a justifiable punishment and he's getting it in spades.  

  •  A Stumble is one thing, but you lost the game! (6+ / 0-)

    Most of the people here are not mad with Rep. Weiner because he had a Stupid. Most are not angry because he has a childish streak. In the grand scheme of things, he did what every last one of us has done at some time or another; a stupid, childish indiscretion.

    They are mad at him because he damaged The Cause. They are mad at him because he gave Them a win. I am angry as well. I hate the idea that a malodorous little moldy monkey turd like Breitbart gets a win that he did not earn. I am furious that Clarence Thomas was given a chance to scurry back into the dark, dank shadows. I want to punch in the face of any sanctimonious hypocrite who sneers "Family Values!".

    But I know why I am so angry, and that it will pass. We still have much work to do, so throw the pies, do the fury-dance, and get it out of your system. Our rebuttal needs to be cold and calculated, and very effective. Let the work begin.

    Less "WAAAAH!", more progress.

    by IndyGlenn on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:17:31 AM PDT

    •  this is only a win if we agree it is (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      orlbucfan, kyril, sethtriggs, TiaRachel

      note how the republicans never admit a loss and eventually everyone comes around to accept it

      if there was some actual wrong doing then congressman weiner should be ashamed and resign

      but there was no wrong doing and so he shouldn't accept that just because the hypocritical republicans or the totally full of shit media is giving him a hard time that he should quit

      Protect Medicare, Win Everywhere!

      by Anton Bursch on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:31:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, I think most are mad because THEY (0+ / 0-)

      look like fools after having gone around making 'smoking gun' and 'hoax' comments.

      It's not Weiner, it's not Breitbart.  They jumped to false conclusions, they made grand pronouncements, and they ended up having to face the fact that they themselves acted like the very Fox viewers at whom they spend so much time mocking as fools.

      The shoe goes on the other foot, and people have to shift the blame for their own embarrassment. Weiner goes under the bus to expiate their own mistakes and blindness.

      Weiner did lie, but did so completely unconvincingly, 'without certitude', and anyone who was objective was going to have taken a step back as soon as he refused to explicitly deny the photo.  But so many folks onsite instead doubled down, and now can only shift hard the other way to avoid taking a hit to their own self-esteem, virtually 'stoning' Weiner to ignore their own mistakes.

  •  "Voyeuristic Puritanism" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jackson8

    does not compute

    I like the rest of your diary, though.

  •  Does Weiner do anything other than yak (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence

    about liberal issues?  Just wondering.

  •  Does John Edwards get a pass now? He was (0+ / 0-)

    definitely on the side of the people.

  •  We Are Just A Bunch Of Protoplasm (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluehen96, RJDixon74135, kyril, Debby, Skex

    looking to reproduce. The drive doesn't always get channeled into sex for reproduction within marriage. Not my concern when this powerful drive puts people in situations that are not socially acceptable. I don't care about Weiner's bulge in the same way that I don't care about the drive that produces the ever visible bulge of Governor Christie. We are human. Eat, drink and check out what just walked into the produce section.

  •  Utter nonsense (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Superpole, Matt Z, Cat Whisperer

    Weiner should resign because, as an admitted liar, he drags down important political principles into disrepute.

  •  Apologize for long comment (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Z

    I wrote this, then decided the world did not need yet another Weiner diary and it seems like it fits with your diary.

    Ok, Weiner.  Another heartache to discover that a passionate, well-spoken, fearless, Progressive Democrat is a . . . creep.  What kind of a guy sends  stupid pictures like that to people he doesn't even know except for Twitter and Facebook? Then add in what kind of a stupid guy Congressman sends stupid stuff like that to unknown recipients.  This goes back to the old blackmailing argument - some of those people could have been opposition party or even foreign agents who could have led him down an ever increasing path of grossness that may have made him subject to blackmail. I don't think that people capable of such major miscalculations of judgment, or as you have noted -impulse control-  belong in government.

    I know that Vitter is the argument that makes all discussion like this seem null and void. That doesn't mean it should be. Re-electing Vitter means that anytime anyone ever has a discussion with one of his constituents,  that you would have to respond, "Wait a moment - you're the ones who re- elected the diaper wearing prostitute patronizing guy to represent you, right? I'm not sure that I can give any weight to any argument you might make."

    In retrospect I even have to reconsider my old defenses of Bill Clinton. I was always "consensual sex between adults" blah blah blah but perhaps I was completely wrong. He did lie and would have been completely successful in defaming Monica as a liar if not for the blue dress. He couldn't keep himself from unzipping his pants for an eager and compliant intern.

    The word that describes the actions of almost all of the guys with the embarrassing incidents is: gross . Larry Craig, David Vitter, Bill Clinton, Anthony Weiner - all gross.

    I have to say that I think that Ensign and John Edwards seem different - they got involved with long-term affairs with specific woman and their misjudgements involved possible financial crimes involving campaign dollars and disclosure. John Edwards did allow himself to be picked up by an unknown woman in a bar who deployed the fetching phrase "you're hot!" to ensnare him while his wife was dieing of cancer, so he does still have a grossness factor with an additional Newt crassness factor bonus.

    The one I am saddest about is Elliot Spitzer.  Talk about fire, passion, fearlessness and intellect combined! I saw him as Teddy Roosevelt re-incarnated.  He did utilize a prostitute, oh, excuse me, an escort, he did pay for her services with his own money, and he did resign. He also did this as Governor, not as AG (when he actually prosecuted prostitutes) so while hypocritical, he escapes uberhypocriticality.

    Because he confronted and acknowledged his actions almost immediately and did the right thing in resigning, I could welcome him back to political presence after he spends an appropriate amount of time wandering and doing penance in the CNN desert.

    I will say that recent events that have ripped off the protective covering of the Democrats as the Party of Labor and the Little Guy have caused me to be equally acerbic in my judgment of miscreants from both parties. I know longer have a reflexive protectiveness towards Democrats when they get caught with their pants down. Scroom. Scroom all.

  •  I think his days in congress are over. (0+ / 0-)

    It's time for him to move on to some venue that will allow him to use his wit, intelligence, passion, and talents to further the many causes he has so successfully espoused.

    I have no idea what venue that may be, but such talent should be valued and encouraged.  I'm sure he's smart enough to figure it out.

    This is just another case of what I've seen over a long lifetime - many people who are very intelligent seem to be lacking in common sense.  It's as though humans can only get so far along the perfection spectrum before mediocrity strikes.

  •  I agree about Weiner and Chris Lee. (6+ / 0-)

    Both of these "scandals" warranted thirty seconds of pointing and laughing, and nothing more.

    Ha ha, what a dork!  Nice bicep/boxer-briefs, Captain Intertubez!  Ha ha!

    And then get on with your life.

    A resignation?  An ethics investigation?  Ridiculous.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:39:43 AM PDT

  •  I've lost respect for him...he did a lot of damage (12+ / 0-)

    a) He treated the public like a pack of bafoons, concocting some b.s. story about hacking, lawyers, certitude, etc. Shut the hell up and don't treat us like a 2-year old, Anthony.

    b) Breitbart is now the new Drudge. Thanks to Weinergate, there is a new right wing hero and one that will be a perpetual thorn in the side of Dems. Well done, well done.

    c) Bad judgment. To err is human, to be a Congressman and twitter pics to your throngs of followers is fucking stupid.

    d) He cut off his own tongue. He's now a punchline. One of the finest progressive pit bulls in Congress is neutered. Great, just great.

    •  And by Breitbart no less ... did it HAVE to be by (4+ / 0-)

      Breitbart?  

      How could Weiner have been so doubly stupid to not pivot with a, "Yeah, It's me. Cyber-flirting, stupid, AND boy is my wife pissed off at me ... oh, and now that I have your attention, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT IS REALLY OBSCENE ... Where is the coverage of Clarence Thomas?"

      Plutocracy (noun) Greek ploutokratia, from ploutos wealth; 1) government by the wealthy; 2) 21st c. U.S.A.; 3) 22nd c. The World

      by bkamr on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:11:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ceaser's wife should be above suspicion (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dillonfence, Loquatrix, wordwraith

      When you chose to be in public life, swear to represent the people, take democracy seriously I do think you have an obligation to live with in some bounds of dignity.  Weiner has betrayed us with this nonsense, at a time when so much is at stake.  Tweeting seems to have taken up a good part of his time and attention, was he thinking about the constituents when tweeting Ginger the porn star about her best strategy for response? Was anyone thinking about five dead in Iraq as Mr Weiner had his public breakdown and we all discuss and wring our hands? It really makes me sick at heart.  This was our progressive champion?  He should fall on his sword and the rest of us move on.  It would have been better were it an affair of the heart, not this silly addiction to his own ego.  

  •  Agreed. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    orlbucfan, kyril, TiaRachel, forester

    Larry Craig, John Ensign, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, etc, etc, etc, Ds and Rs alike. I don't really care about these guys sex lives except when they condemn homosexuality and then get caught hypocritically engaging in it. I'm taking that political shot at conservative hypocrites because their homophobia and self hatred actually destroys lives.

    Otherwise, anyone who engages in whatever kind of sex he/she wants to, as long as it's with a consenting adult, I could give a damn. The only people who blow things (no pun intended) like this out of proportion are conservatives anyway. They hurt themselves because they put us in a position of having to shoot back at them for doing worse than Clinton did with Lewinsky. We're not gonna keep taking impeachments and hits and letting them get off (another pun not intended) clean.

    When they cease and desist, so will I. These sex scandals are really boring if you ask me. I don't want to picture anybody having sex and when I'm in the mood for pr0n, John Boehner will NOT be the star of it. I assume he does things in the bathroom that I'd rather not see either. When is America gonna lighten up about sex? When the conservatives cut their crap and get real. Will they ever do that? Unlikely. It seems too much like "progress" and DFHism.

    "Warm smell of Moulitsas rising up in the air..." -seanwright

    by GenXangster on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:44:05 AM PDT

  •  Like "Wuthering Heights:" Scandal, Tragedy, No Sex (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril

    So far it seems like this is about flirting on line.

    It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.

    by bernardpliers on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:46:40 AM PDT

    •  But the scandal was sexual in nature. (0+ / 0-)

      I mean come on... he sent a picture of his erect junk to a random woman. That goes beyond flirting IMHO. And Breibart says that he has other pictures not released that are "pornographic" in nature. I for one am glad they we're released to the public.

      And I'm going to take a leap and assume that he was spanking his monkey while he was chatting with these women.

      During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
      - George Orwell

      by HairyTrueMan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:35:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't equivocate just because he's (0+ / 0-)

      "one of ours".  The man's a stupid idiotic liar and I'm embarrassed he supposedly "represents" us.

  •  TOTALLY Disagree; Weiner's Finished (7+ / 0-)

    Nice dancing, though.

    1.) Weiner is a liar. he got busted doing something stupid, then attempted to lie about it like a grade school child. serious lack of ethics here.

    2.) Weiner had several "on line" GF''s... when all of the truth comes out.. it will probably be dozens. I think it's fair to ask just how much of our time (you know, the people who pay his salary and bennies) was he spending sexting, texting, etc., his numerous girlfriends??

    then there's THIS:

    Meet Lisa Weiss, Las Vegas blackjack dealer — and, apparently, phone-sex partner to Democratic congressman Anthony Weiner. Weiss, who came forward on Monday following Weiner's admission that he'd engaged in "inappropriate" online communication with "about six" women, is about to make the congressman's life even more difficult than it already is.

    During his tearful Monday press conference, Weiner told reporters "I don't believe that I used any government resources." But Weiss claims that she and Weiner had phone sex on one of the representative's office telephones, and exchanged sexy Facebook messages during work hours. Once, she tells Radar Online, she tried to call him back, only to discover the number he had used answered with "a recorded message that it was an outgoing U.S. Congress line only." Uh-oh.

    again, when this comes out, it will be a substantial amount of time, and this is grounds to be booted from congress. if he's not booted in the next few weeks, his constitituents aren't going to be amused by all of this.. and they don't give a crap what Sullivan says.

    http://gawker.com/...

    "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

    by Superpole on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:47:37 AM PDT

    •  And he didn't even have the good sense to use (0+ / 0-)

      a cutsey, suggestive fake screen name. Right, Superpole?

      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

      by RJDixon74135 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:24:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know you're trying to be ironic (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Superpole

        but I don't see the connection between a private individual's choice of username on a blog, and the fact that Anthony Weiner is a stupid little pillock who cares more about his dick than about progress in America or he wouldn't have taken such risks with his credibility.

        What's your point?

        •  The Feeble Attempt at Irony (0+ / 0-)

          is a failure... of course.

          Keep in mind how lowwwwwwwwww the bar has been set here.

          this pathetic event is, just as I predicted, escalating into a major meltdown/problem for Weiner.

          The Wenis is indeed finished-- just like Eric Massa not long ago.

          http://gawker.com/...

          "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

          by Superpole on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:30:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! (0+ / 0-)

        please let me know when you're ready to face reality.

        i.e. the "democrats" do not occupy the moral or ethical high ground.

        never have/never will.

        http://gawker.com/...

        "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

        by Superpole on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:27:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Fuck Lisa Weiss (5+ / 0-)

      What a loser.  She was an eager participant in the dirty talk and encouraging him to send photos.  Ideally, you don't do that with a married man, but if you do and you egged him on, so fucking lame to give all that stuff to Breitbart.  Sounds like she was just pissed he was doing it with other women.  Her statement says she ratted him out after he didn't return her message while the whole thing was blowing up.  Jesus Christ.

      Anyway, more to your point.  The lying is irrelevant.  Anyone married who gets half-busted is probably going to lie about sex.  It says zero about his credibility on anything else.  I doubt his constituents will care at the end of the day.  If Giuliani stayed in office and got a huge ovation at the GOP convention, no reason Weiner can't win a mayoral race.  As to sexting during office hours or on congressional phones... let's take the puritanical aspect out of it.  Let's subpoena the computers and emails of every congressman.  If they ever read an article on celebrity gossip or took social calls unrelated to work, they should resign.  What difference does it make that Weiner's behavior is something people want to get moralistic about?

      •  Let's remind people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel, NancyK

        Rudy called a press conference to announce his divorce and tell us that he had found true love with Judith Nathanson BEFORE telling his wife who was going about her day at Gracie Mansion.  And of course prior to that there were all those rumors about Rudy and Christine Latwhatever her name was.

        •  Nice Dancing, But (0+ / 0-)

          FAIL.

          I could just as easily say, "let's remind people of the Doofus Eric Massa".... which of course 99.9 percent of you have conveniently forgotten.

          you do realize the main problem here is hypocrisy, correct?

          "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

          by Superpole on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:32:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Oh fucking no! Say it isn't so! (0+ / 0-)

      He used his office line for a half an hour of long distance sexy time! What is that, like $1.35 in long distance charges? Heaven forfend!

  •  Not sure what Ted Haggard has to do with this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence, Loquatrix, fiddlingnero

    Haggard was not a public official but head of a church and religious organization that laid down a certain set of moral standards for behavior for its members. If those groups and Haggard felt he had violated those moral standards then it was up to them/him whether he step down. I don't really see why Sullivan mentions him, since he wasn't about representing voters but about modeling a set of religious beliefs/moral standards.

    Jennifer Brunner for Governor of Ohio 2014

    by anastasia p on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:48:06 AM PDT

  •  no need to resign (0+ / 0-)

    He may just not run again. His end game was to be mayor of NYC and that is probably gone now. I don't think he wants to be a lifetime congressman.
    Maybe he finishes his term and tries to run for mayor but not sure how far he gets. this is not much of a scandal, the media just turned it into one.

  •  Two words: Ted Kennedy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril

    Flawed, yes, liberal lion and the best we perhaps ever had, abso-frickin'-lutely.  

    The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion. Molly Ivins

    by MufsMom on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:53:22 AM PDT

  •  Just sad he won't be Mayor (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence, Remediator, stegro

    I was looking forward to having him run for Mayor and win. He was tailor made for the job. Now that's over - for this. Such a waste.

    •  Agree -- he did seem almost (0+ / 0-)

      tailor-made for the job.  It probably takes someone who's scrappy and brilliant both, and Weiner is.  

      I'm no longer in the city, but would have proudly voted for Anthony Weiner to be its mayor.  

      •  Oh for crapsake (7+ / 0-)

        How come Rudy Giuliani, serial REAL-TIME adulterer, got pass after pass after pass, election and re-election, and was actually taken seriously as a candidate for President of the US?

        Never say "never" or you have already thrown the game.

        If it's
        Not your body
        Then it's
        Not your choice
        AND it's
        None of your damn business!

        by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I dabble in politics because the (0+ / 0-)

          guesswork is interesting.  

          It's just my guess that Anthony Weiner will not be elected NYC's mayor owing to the fall-out, and would reiterate my lament for that outcome.  

        •  Because he didn't lie (0+ / 0-)

          Giuliani once said "the degree to which I am a good or not-so-good Catholic, I prefer to leave to the priests".

          If you're cheating and lying to your spouse, that's between you and her/him.

          If you decided to lie to your constituents, then it becomes a political issue.

          New Yorkers are very aware of this difference.

          •  Ha! (0+ / 0-)

            Wanna bet on it?

            On the stipulation that things remain as they stand now and nothing worse is revealed, I would bet a substantial sum of money on Wiener being re-elected.

            •  Democrats in Albany will save you the trouble (0+ / 0-)

              They'll simply redistrict his CD out of existence so we'll never find out for sure, but you'd lose that money.

              We're not talking about some Dem stronghold here, a typical liberal bastion in NYC. Obama won NY-9 by 8%. It's a fairly socially conservative district. In fact, considering the demographics of it, I'd say it's the kind of district where Obama has lost a fair chunk of support in the last 3 years. I'm  pretty sure someone like Romney can compete with Obama in this district and Giuliani would win it. Now, can Weiner outperform Obama? Till 2 weeks ago, easily. Now? Not even close. If the republicans nominated a good candidate and funded him well - and have no doubt that they would do their best considering the opponent - they'd win this seat. If some dude got 40% of the votes versus Weiner half a year ago, do you think a good candidate with money and facing the post-scandal Weiner wouldn't win it?

              And other things are already being revealed. He tried to meet one of his correspondents personally. He had several x-rated convos. He offered PR help to a porn star. It's wildly unrealistic to expect that the congressional investigation won't find out at least some minor prevarications - apparently he used his congressional telephone.

    •  Waste of talent (0+ / 0-)

      That's a given that he could never run for Mayor after this.  He'll be in a struggle to survive as Congressman.  He can do it but it all depends on him and there can't be anything more to the story.

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:24:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Call me intolerant, call me unrealistic, call me (4+ / 0-)

    anything, but I think Weiner is stupid both for allowing this to happen and for lying about it.  I liked him a lot and am very disappointed.  Regardless of what Sullivan says, Weiner has lost his credibility and whatever political juice he had, and that's the worst part of this.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:58:37 AM PDT

  •  He should quit simply for being such an idiot (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence, Loquatrix, adigal, ammaloy

    How on Earth does a Democratic congress person do something that stupid?  On his official account?  Really?  On Twitter?  WTF?  Everyone knows twitter is meant to share everything you write with the world, and you shouldn't post stuff in Twitter you don't want to see a newspaper.

    I would expect this from some flat earth teabagger, but I expect Democrats to have a few more brain cells.  If he'd gone through at least some effort to hide his behavior (separate twitter account, tor), I wouldn't care, but he was just asking to get caught. How stupid can you be, and who wants a stupid congressperson?

    I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.

    by Futuristic Dreamer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:00:13 AM PDT

  •  Mary Matalins Faux Outrage Was Funny On CNN (7+ / 0-)

    Man I had forgotten how irritating she is.

    But she seemed to think Weiner had invented online flirting, and she was acting like Weiner had been caught masturbating into the soup pot in the congressional cafeteria.

    It's all so clear to me now. I'm the keeper of the cheese. And you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.

    by bernardpliers on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:00:46 AM PDT

  •  The problem w/all this jawing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel

    and screeching from our side is it gives a piece of s### like Breitbart the C-R-E-D-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y he craves. Look at Grayson. He is a solid family guy (5 beloved kids) and he was defeated last November.  I hope Weiner sticks it out (no pun here) for his district's sake.

    Since when have greed, stupidity, and downright lying become virtues? Since Reagan, that's when!

    by orlbucfan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:01:17 AM PDT

  •  Re; Rush-the irony, it burns! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekial 23 20

    I'm sure he said it with a completely straight face too.

  •  Oh, and this isn't the end of the story... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix

    Its about to get much more lurid. Urging porn stars to lie and misuse of Congressional staff.

    What a prick. Just resign already.

    •  All the people equivocating on his behalf (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dillonfence

      are going to look really stupid before the week is out.  Clearly, the "real" photos haven't hit the fan yet -- but they will.

      Who wants such a stupid idiot representing us?  I don't.  He should resign already and stop embarrassing everyone with his pathetic penis fixation.

  •  The problem is that these politicians (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, adigal

    lose effectiveness as they become objects of ridicule and scorn.

    What is Mr. Diapers' future as a politician? Do you really want to hear that guy expound on anything?

    I also disagree with Sullivan on Lee. First off, Lee resigned so quickly because it was obvious there were a lot more skeletons in that closet (I work in Lee's district, live in Higgin's). But when a guy becomes the source of ridicule, it's basically over.

    There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

    by upstate NY on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:03:08 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for writing this diary (0+ / 0-)

    I agree with you  and with Sullivan.  Completely.

    There is nothing to add.  Except Amen.

    "Failure is impossible." -Susan B. Anthony

    by NCJan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:06:35 AM PDT

  •  back when I used to "hotchat" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Andee1270, kyril, Debby, TiaRachel

    before it became boring....

    Think 1980s

    Two of the people I used to hot chat with... one was calling from the pentagon, and another was calling from library of congress.

    Why those places? because they had technology early.

    Basic truth : everyone masturbates, and its more fun while communicating with another person.

    So how about we stop acting like Weiner is a criminal?

    fact does not require fiction for balance (proudly a DFH)

    by mollyd on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:08:43 AM PDT

    •  Amen. And how about while (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, royce, TiaRachel

      we're at it, we stop being so shocked and outraged that everybody does stuff like this?  It's voyeuristic and weird that people's sex lives are big news.  

      •  lets save our outrage (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril, royce, TiaRachel

        for unneeded wars, hungry children and people losing their homes, and a hundred other real things to be upset about.

        fact does not require fiction for balance (proudly a DFH)

        by mollyd on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:40:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Srsly. And anyone who says that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril, TiaRachel

          they have never done anything they aren't proud of to get the attention of a member of the opposite sex is lying.  I just assume that most people are seeking sexual validation in sane and crazy ways all the time.  Why?  Because I'm grown.  

           

      •  No kidding! The thing that shocks me the most is (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        forester, Marko the Werelynx, mollyd

        the degree of pearl-clutching and hand-wringing I'm seeing here. I thought only conservatives got bent like that about other people's business. Conservatives absolutely live for getting their BVDs in a bunch about stuff like this. (giggle) I didn't expect to see that kind of thing here.

        I don't know what to make of it either, but I'm okay with that. All the discussion in the world isn't going to make any more sense of it at this point in time. We'll just have to wait and see.

        The instant some other "shiny object" comes along, the media will be all over it and this will be all but forgotten. I, for one, was glad to hear about something, ANYTHING besides that idiot woman and her stupid bus!

        And we should be thankful because at least he was smart enough to put on a clean pair of underpants. Mom was right - you never know who's going to see them. It could have been a lot worse. I don't even want to go there.

        My apologies for not being sufficiently serious about this matter, but I think we'll survive. What is up with guys texting pictures of their junk? On second thought, don't answer that.     ; )

    •  I'm not acting like he's a criminal. (4+ / 0-)

      I'm acting like he's a stupid fucking idiot who has embarrassed his supporters and made the whole job harder.

      The truth is indeed that everyone masturbates etc etc, but given a choice between a Congressman who leaves a permanent record of his erection photos Twittered to random members of the public, or a Congressman who masturbates WITHOUT involving random strangers and leaving a library of photographs in the public domain to ridicule him with throughout the rest of his career, are you seriously saying you'd opt for the former?

      Course you wouldn't.  Because even though sex is normal and nice and everyone is doing it, nobody wants a Congressman with his dick hanging out if there's a reasonable alternative.  Fact.

  •  weiner needs to resign (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dillonfence, Loquatrix, ammaloy

    he will taint anything he touches now and undermine any message.  His lies (much more than his poor judgement in sending pics) have broken everyone's trust.

  •  I only disagree with one thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Debby, TiaRachel

    I think it was perfectly fine that he lied. I also think it was perfectly fine that Bill Clinton lied. I don't think the public is entitled to the truth about matters that are clearly none of our damned business.

    •  Why the hipocrisy? (0+ / 0-)

      If you truly believe in that, just state that it's "none of your damned business".

      But accusing others of committing crimes?  What kind of person does that?

    •  I do like the suggestion though (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril

      that the proper response was, "None of your damn business" rather than "I didn't do it!"

      There's a reason Democrats won massively the last two cycles, and it wasn't because people were desperate for "bipartisanship". --kos

      by Debby on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:24:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Like Clinton and Edwards before him... (7+ / 0-)

    ...if this is the level of judgment Weiner has, then it is entirely arguable that he's unfit for his position. I couldn't be more pissed at him than I am right now. It's the same anger I feel toward Clinton and Edwards. It's not a flirting issue, it's a judgment issue for me, and he has proven he has poor judgment.

    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
    -- Dr. Peter Venkman

    by Eclectablog on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:14:15 AM PDT

  •  I don't have his back (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix, JackND

    He lied.

    All he had to do was, Not Lie.  

    But he failed.  He lied.  He made himself into an albatross.

    He can resign, his replacement can then run as an incumbent, and Mr Weiner can pursue his Mayoral ambitions.  Everyone is better off.

    Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

    by Quicklund on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:19:08 AM PDT

  •  This may be late but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix, adigal

    we simply cannot afford right now to be "human," in the sense you mean.  We have so much work to do and such a hard road ahead that we can't afford Heroes.  We need leaders who get it.  They have a responsibility to themselves and to us to be aware and guard against stuff like this.  In case you haven't noticed, guys there is no privacy anymore.  So the only thing to do  to protect your self and your democratic base and try to heal this wounded land is to remember that and get on with your work.

    WE must hang together or we will all hang separately. B.Franklin

    by ruthhmiller on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:20:13 AM PDT

  •  As an NYC resident, I was looking forward (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix

    to him running for and probably becoming Mayor. Now we'll probably be stuck with earnest, hard-working and dull-as-dishwater Bill de Blasio.

     Ironically if this had been a plain old fashioned case of adultery, lying about and then coming clean, Weiner would probably still stand a chance.  But the particulars of this case point to profound lack of judgement and maturity. NYC voters can overlook moral slipups but not stupidity.

  •  The problem both political sides have is (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darmok

    that they are willing to "overlook" when it's one of their own who does something stupid like this and lies about it.  

    That's what the right did with Vitter.  I'm in Louisiana, and what I heard when he was reelected is that they hated what he did, but he's always voted the way they want and they'd rather have him in the Senate than someone who voted with the Democrats.  

    I see many here taking the same position -- yes, it was stupid, and he shouldn't have lied, but he's a champion for my causes so I'll be in favor of putting it behind us and moving on.  

    It really is situation ethics, sometimes.  How many of the people here who are saying he should not resign were also on here saying Chris Lee SHOULD resign?  

    Me, I didn't argue Vitter should have resigned, I didn't argue Chris Lee should have resigned, and I don't think Weiner should resign.  I think a personal failing is a personal failing. I don't have any illusions -- I know full well that some great leaders also had significant personal failings.  The voters get to decide, next time around, if that personal failing matters.  Now, if it's a failure that involves the office you hold, that's different -- that calls for resignation.  

    Just my 2 cents.  

  •  I have two words for you Teddy Kennedy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, royce

    His sin was so egregious only God could forgive. The scandal never went away, toned down may be but there are to this day people who sincerely hate the man for what he did. Look at Teddy's career, what he did for US what we would have lost had he resigned. Redemption is not a bad word and we risk losing so much of value when we expect our leaders to be perfect, they are just like us - human beings with all the same strengths and weaknesses.

  •  Agree with most, but..... (5+ / 0-)

    I truly don't care about his online flirting.  And yes, that's what it is now.  We don't expect our officials to remain celibate until they're married.  Suggestive talk online will lose that stigma in time.  

    There's a big difference to me when Larry Craig votes against gay rights and slinks around men's bathrooms.  That's hypocrisy that deserves condemnation.  

    My problem with Weiner is his behavior since this surfaced.  The entire liberal netroots was tying itself up in knots defending him, finding reasons to believe that this was a set-up, looking for ways that the photo could be faked.  When you go back over Weiner's statements over the last few days there is only one conclusion:  he is a lying, opportunistic scumbag.  He was willing to suck the time and toil of supporters who have a real fight on their hands against the Republican cabal.  He was willing for their arguments to stand, if they could collectively defend his lies.  

    He's a great liberal lion.  I appreciate that.  I commend that.  However he has yelled 'Principle', willing to sabotage our steps toward a realignment along progressive ideals.  To find out that he has no principle, that he was willing to watch many, many people find ways to support his lies -- that is beyond the pale.  

    He shouldn't resign.  He did nothing illegal.  Brooklyn and Queens should have the choice to reelect him or not.  He is nowhere near Ensign in terms of criminal behavior, or Vitter's hookers all the while defending the puritanical, Republican view of morals.  

    But Anthony Weiner has lost all of my respect, forever.  

  •  Criticism is, of course, a right of everyone. (0+ / 0-)

    However, I prefer leaving the political consequences to the voters in his district.

    The community of fools might be small if it were not such an accomplished proselytizer.

    by ZedMont on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:36:13 AM PDT

  •  Not long ago you listened to Rush Limbaugh? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stagemom, AllanTBG

    Puke. A media pig caught bringing back his leftover Viagra from a country known for child sex tourism bemoaning the fact that we have no heroes anymore because the media can't keep a secret? Sheesh. My head is spinning.  

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

    by RJDixon74135 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:43:05 AM PDT

  •  Two words: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stonedoubt, Loquatrix, davidkc

    Pathological liar.

  •  You're all such a bunch of WATB Victorian prudes! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, Corporate Dog, TiaRachel, forester

    This is why the country is going to hell in a handbasket - not because the Republicans are driving it there, but because WE on the Left can't stand the thought that our elected representatives are anything less than perfect symbols of moral rectitude, and WE get all hysterical and tear them down when they show the inevitable human flaws and failings and foolishness.

    Therefore WE are not able to mount any sort of organized opposition to the slow-motion disaster that the Republicans are willfully and deliberately creating.

    Can't you stupid screaming fainting hysterical Victorian twits see that YOU ARE DOING BREITBART'S DIRTY WORK FOR HIM?????

    If Weiner isn't mature enough to represent you, you are not mature enough to deserve the right to vote. Period.

    If it's
    Not your body
    Then it's
    Not your choice
    AND it's
    None of your damn business!

    by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:47:34 AM PDT

  •  It's not about the act (0+ / 0-)

    It's about the cover up - He should resign, IMHO.

  •  SHAME on all of you who (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, royce, fiddlingnero, BradyB

    are saying Weiner is toast, he is done, he should resign, you are disappointed, etc etc

    How many times did Weiner have our back? How many times did he defend Progressive ideas, programs & policy?

    How many times did Weiner advance Progressive principles thru speeches on floor, on TV, in interviews?

    He had our backs, period. Now you are ready to be so unforgiving, so judgmental, so rigid, that you would abandon Weiner when he needs us? Meh, go join the Repub party where your mind-set would be welcome.

    The man is human, the mistake was not earth-shattering, and one use of poor judgment does not a total man make.

    Most of the posters in this thread who are so ready to dismiss Weiner and all of the good he has accomplished and has yet to accomplish are probably trolls for the right. I've done it myself on RW message boards (!?), hoping to encourage arguments.

    This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top....Lula

    by anninla on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:55:00 AM PDT

  •  Weiner needs to resign. Hypocrisy. Bad gov't. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cordobes

    Sorry but sending sexually provocative pix to young women is not something a responsible public figure such as  Congressman can be doing.

    It's a public act by a public figure in politics and is not acceptable behavior.

    Apologizing for it vs. calling for Weiner's resignation as we would CORECCTLY do for Bachmann or Palin's or Vitter's resignation is hypocritical at best and bad government at worst.

    •  Where's his hypocrisy? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TiaRachel, forester

      Has he ever attacked anyone else's sexual morality the way Newt Gingrich did during Monica Lewinsky days?

      Why is his behavior not acceptable in a public way?  What does his performance as a husband have to do with his performance as a congressman?

      Larry Craig, Giuliani, Mark Sanford, Nikki Haley didn't resign.  John McCain is still in office.  Do Democrats generally call on Republicans to resign for affairs?  I realize there can be hypocrisy on DKos like the rush to assume Weiner was smeared here.  But the calls to resign are hypocrisy from the Right.

  •  I Really wish we (4+ / 0-)

    could get to the point where it is understood that the lying about what happened is what is worse that what was done a lot of the time.

    •  No, rosecar, it's because we're "prudes" (5+ / 0-)

      that we are complaining.  Yes, that's right, the only reason I'm angry with Weiner is apparently because I'm a "prude" according to some of my less nuanced Kossack kin.  

      No, apparently I can't be angry because he's a liar who lacks the brains, lacks the simple mental filter that says "Dude, you're a Congressman, this is NOT a good idea."  It's just because I'm a prude.

      So yes, I'm a "prude" because I don't like being lied to and then left to flap in the wind by idiotic men who can't keep it in their pants even when they know they have political enemies searching for any shred of something to discredit them with.

      •  plenty of ordinary people don't have deep secrets (0+ / 0-)

        yeah - I don't think he should resign, and I think we should weigh Weiner's flaws against the ethically deeper corruption of 100s of members of congress who are funded by corporations to work against the best interests of the public.
           And his chatroom stuff doesn't really impact people outside his private life.

        At the same time, I don't subscribe to the idea that most people sneak around on each other. Most of us probably know dozens of people who don't treat people badly and have closets full of secrets.

  •  In a perfect world, it shouldn't matter... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    royce, ElizabethRegina1558

    Unfortunately, in this world, including the hyper-partisan world of DC today, it does matter.  Any vulnerabilities exposed about any politician can and will be exploited to the max by the other party.  

    In the perfect world, the other members of their Party wouldn't have to spend time discussing the private affairs of their colleagues, but in the real world, being put in this position has Put the Dems on the Defensive, and Dems Shy Away from Weiner to the point that they now Rally Behind Ethics Probe.

    In a perfect world such relatively trivial things wouldn't get any attention--but in this world, unfortunately, they do.  Anyone that has been semi-conscious over the last few decades knows that public figures can and will be called out by the media, and by their enemies to defend themselves if even trivial indiscretions are publicized--yet they somehow think they are immune.  

    Meanwhile, the issues that should be addressed with our lawmakers' full attention, such as: The ongoing budget meltdown; Saving Medicare & Social Security; ending the ongoing wars draining the economy and the lifeblood of so many; Addressing social issues, crumbling infrastructure, etc, etc, etc--all are bumped to the  backseat because the involved individual & their Party are placed in the position of focusing all their energy into playing defense in the current Scandalpalooza du jour.  Despite the fact that it shouldn't be that way--the reality is, that's the way it is in this far from perfect world.

  •  Who cares about his play time? (5+ / 0-)

    He was pushing for an investigation of a judge on the Supreme Court and now he has lost credibility. He has also given his opponents plenty of material to taunt him with for a long time. It was really stupid of him.

    This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

    by Agathena on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:59:08 AM PDT

  •  The problem is poor judgement (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix, moira977

    And that he paniced. Both not desireable traits in a leader. More, he knew his supporters were making asses of themself and he left them to twist in the wind until the damage was done.

    These weren't liasons with people he knew and had any reason to believe they would keep their mouths shut, these were total strangers.

    To say I'm disappointed in AW would be an understatement.

    President Obama is the best moderate Republican president in my lifetime. kasandra.us

    by KS Rose on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:01:02 AM PDT

  •  All true. But I am saddened that his voice (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, satanicpanic

    for progressive issues is now, temporarily at least, diminished.  What astonishes me is that someone like Wiener, clearly a very smart guy, like Spitzer before him, wouldn't figure out that his stand on the issues would make him a real target of the right.  As such, he should watch what he does, and not leave a blatant opening like this for a creature like Breitbart to "get" him on.  The right, though they can't govern, and their philosophy spells doom for the country, are VERY GOOD at stalking and destroying their prey.  A silly activity like sending pix like this over Twitter creates a huge vulnerability.  He should have been smarter.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:02:58 AM PDT

    •  Not puritanism... (4+ / 0-)

      I totally reject the accusation that my frustration with these kinds of actions are about puritanism on my part.  I am completely clear-headed and unemotional about the fact that politicians are human and have all the associated foibles and desires.  But for heaven's sake is it too much to ask that they keep it in their pants until their term of office is over?  My objections are purely on practical terms for the setbacks these in-office activities serve the progressive cause.  I get so frustrated thinking about what could have been...    
      Imagine if Bill Clinton had his dalliance with Monica AFTER his term ended, eh?  He would still be cheating on his wife (so what), Monica would still have a good story to tell her friends and the media (so what), and NO ONE WOULD CARE because we would have had Al Gore as president, no "W," no "WMDs", no Iraq, no Cheney, no Rumsfeld, no "Brownie," and how much closer would we be to a real freaking clean energy policy?
      ARGH!

      •  what you said. (0+ / 0-)

        Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

        by SottoVoce on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:43:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Weiner's been a Rep since 1999, and a politician (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel, forester

        since 1992.

        You expect him to 'keep it in his pants' for over a decade?

        If politicians were term limited to 2 or even 4 years, maybe your idea would be more understandable, but no, I don't think you are 'clear-headed' about politicians being human when you think they need to be sexless for decades at a time.

        •  Sexless? (0+ / 0-)

          no one said sexless -- that's a little too literal.  "Keep it in his pants" is a metaphor for "don't be such a stupid jerk" while in public office.  And BTW, no, I definitely don't think "over a decade" is too long for someone to be faithful to his/her spouse, if there is one.  

  •  Apparently, he isn't really that effective (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Futuristic Dreamer

    and is prone to take the credit for others' tireless work.  He like a camera, in sum.

    I hate to quote David Frum here but this may be more apropos, coming from him, "Yes the American media always loves a freak show. But a political party does not have to cooperate."

    by alliedoc on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:03:42 AM PDT

    •  All politics is local (0+ / 0-)

      I trust that Anthony Weiner's staff are attending various community board and other meetings and have their fingers on the pulse at a very local level along with helping people with such things as passports, section 8, and whatever individual issues people bring to his office doors.

      A resignation could really hurt his constituents, especially those who are underserved.  

      •  There is no reason to resign, as you say. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fisher1028

        The question would be how much support he has and if he runs again.  Of course, the press are all doom and gloom, and think he should resign.  What I heard (someone from Salon) was that his whole objective was to run for mayor, which might really be out at this point.  Who knows?  Rangel won with 80% of the vote this time.

        I hate to quote David Frum here but this may be more apropos, coming from him, "Yes the American media always loves a freak show. But a political party does not have to cooperate."

        by alliedoc on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:29:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The mayoral democratic primary (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          alliedoc

          is a wide open playing field.  Weiner is not necessarily on the radar of many.  My predictions is that us NYC democrats will do what we do very well and man the great circular firing squad leaving the worst candidate standing by a tiny margin.

          What he chooses to do is up to him.  NY-9 will decide if he serves another term or the entire city will decide if he runs for mayor in the primary.  

          Even prior to this I am not sure Anthony Weiner could win the mayoral primary.  People keep saying that he lost to Bloomberg.  That is not true.  Last years candidate was Bill Thompson and before that Mark Green I believe.  

          •  Well, all I know is that I have gotten a lot more (0+ / 0-)

            work done this week, avoiding MSNBC and their mostly nonstop Weiner coverage.  It truly is getting smarmy, isn't it.  Just sickening.

            He seems to be the male version of so many women who weren't cute or popular when they were in high school and never got over it.

            I hate to quote David Frum here but this may be more apropos, coming from him, "Yes the American media always loves a freak show. But a political party does not have to cooperate."

            by alliedoc on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:28:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  A stupid, arrogant liar. (0+ / 0-)

      I think he deserves no defending.  He should resign for the bald-faced lies he told.

      Like most politicians, his feeble cover-up was way worse than the stupid thing he was lying to hide.

  •  imo we are way too quick to "lionize" these reps (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Loquatrix, mrblifil, mim5677

    as i often asked people about Alan Grayson, what is Weiner's greatest political accomplishment?

    i'm not downplaying the need for cheerleaders and firebrands, but i'd prefer we reserve the high praise for people who actually get shit done.

    •  Yet (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ezekial 23 20, TiaRachel, NancyK

      it's fundamentally true that the reason Weiner was targeted with 24/7 surveillance of his online activities (and perhaps his every movement) was because he was effective at punching holes in the right wing media strategy. Bagging his head was a priority not only to shut him up, but to stem the tide of any who wished to emulate his outspoken nature, and take it into the public arena.

      •  Thanks (0+ / 0-)

        You were right and I was wrong last week, but I think we're both right here.  People are so eager to go after Weiner on any and all grounds (legitimate and not) that they are forgetting why it became an issue in the first place. And it wasn't because he was sending dirty pictures online.  Wouldn't be surprised if there were dozens of members of Congress who have done that.

        He was targeted because he was getting under their skin, no more and no less.  That in turn being dismissed as his just shooting his mouth off, worthless because of what's since occurred or because he's supposedly an asshole otherwise?  No.

    •  Thank you (0+ / 0-)

      I got HR'd two weeks ago for recognizing that he is less productive as a legislator than he is as a commentator.

      The next time I hear an FDR reference and how awesome he was, I'm going to remind you of what an internment camp is.

      by mim5677 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:53:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, here we are again (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, NancyK, Marko the Werelynx

    talking about someone's sexual indiscretions, while Republicans aim to take down the whole country.

    •  Yep (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina, TiaRachel

      This whole thing is designed to move the conversation onto their turf. But just because the Village is shocked SHOCKED I SAY to learn of sexting on Twitter, that doesn't mean public opinion will necessarily follow.

      Personally, I hope to see a LOT more of the "vindicated" Andrew Breitbart plastered all over the media megasphere. He's a fundamentally unlikeable figure, who can't help but come off as more than a little crazy. And he's obviously got his own issues with compulsive behavior. It's only a matter of time until his own flameout, and that will be very satisfying, once you set aside all the damage he has caused in the lives of people who were perfect strangers to him.

    •  So Weiner "fiddles" while America burns. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina

      Yet another reason to kick his dumb ass to the kerb.  The man's just too stupid to govern.

      •  If women deleted from life (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel

        all the men who have hit on them, harassed them, made sexual remarks, and more, there would be few men left.

        Plus, women indulge in sexual flirtations too.

        Incautious, yes.  Human, yes.  
        I'm pretty sure no one is perfect.
        I'm withholding judgment; anyway, it's not mine to give.

        •  All this equivocation! (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          marina, roonie, ElizabethRegina1558

          "Women flirt too."  Sure they do!  Just not when they're elected representatives of the American People, apparently!  So if women can keep it in their pants, as it were, while they're working for America, why do so many men seem to use it as an opportunity to get sex?

          I'll be interested to see what your judgment is, if any, when the "real" photos come out later in the week.

          Again, it's not the fact that people flirt.  It's the fact that they send photos of their dick out on Twitter.  It's the sheer STUPIDITY of these men that I just cannot get past.

  •  Odd AP story makes no sense (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fisher1028, sethtriggs

    Look at this article:

    http://hosted.ap.org/...

    The article begins stating that Brietbart has an x-rated picture of Weiner as well, and will publicize it if Weiner "attempts reprisals against him."  Nice little blackmail of a congressman there, but whatever.

    But look at the next two paragraphs:

    Conservative activist Andrew Breitbart of the website BigGovernment.com tells NBC's "Today" show he considers the image "an insurance policy" against attacks from Weiner, who on Monday admitted the crotch photo was of him. The married Weiner also acknowledged he had engaged in inappropriate contact with six women over three years through social networking sites like Twitter and Facebook and occasionally over the phone.

    Breitbart told NBC Tuesday that if Weiner wants to open himself to further investigation, "there are a lot of women" who could come forward. Asked directly if he considered the purported unpublicized picture an insurance policy, Breitbart replied, "I don't like to think of it that way."

    Wait... what?  The two bold paragraphs are completely in opposition to each other.  The first says that Breitbart specifically says, in quotes, that the photo is an insurance policy, then when asked if he considers it an insurance policy, Breitbart says he doesn't think of it that way.  So where did the first quote come from?

    Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy reporting.

    "The majority of a single vote is as sacred as if unanimous." - Thomas Jefferson

    by cartwrightdale on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:21:58 AM PDT

  •  Compulsive behavior (0+ / 0-)

    exists everywhere among all strata of society. Anthony Weiner was involved in compulsive behavior. Involving computers and the internet. This is far from an uncommon problem. I am reminded of the recent investigation at SEC that disclosed a worker logging into the porn site ladyboyjuice.com 385 times in one day. In fact this problem is so widespread among men in the workplace that when such a discovery is made, it should be regarded as trivial by those of us who are not affected.

    You know what would have saved Anthony Weiner? Two things. The first would have been a robust IT policy regarding access to porn and social networking on the job. This would include personal devices. Unfortunately for Weiner his refusal to step down means an Ethics Committee investigation which will examine the contents of his hard drive. I hope everything is in order on that front...

    The second thing that would have saved him would have been his own realization that he was being monitored 24/7 by his political opposition. It's absolutely unforgivable on his part that he acted as though he had the privilege of private communications on public social networking sites. Though even here he was probably demonstrating the tendency of people wrapped up in destructive cycles of compulsive behavior to unconsciously "out" themselves by dropping their guard, even momentarily.

    I wish him well, I hope he can grow from this episode. He's a young enough guy to be able to bounce back from this and still make a big contribution. But I am not swearing fealty to him right now, because quite frankly, he's toxic, and he needs to clean himself up if he wants to regain trust.

  •  I'm sick to death of men who (5+ / 0-)

    can't keep it in their pants for the good of the country.  Seriously, I expect better of someone I've elected.

  •  If he never stood at a podium (4+ / 0-)

    and lied his ass off about this whole thing, I would have no problem forgetting about it.

    As is, I think he has lost all credibility and should resign immediately.

  •  Giving Breitbart a shred of legitimacy (0+ / 0-)

    is unforgivable, however.  When Breitbart shows up to speak at your own news conference....Hoo boy.  This is where the consequences come to play.  I could care less about crotch shots, but politically you have to know you are playing in a pit of snakes.

    •  Most of DailyKos set Breitbart up for legitimacy (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ezekial 23 20, bryker, Caipirinha

      by rushing to call him a liar before anyone knew anything.

      We all probably should have picked up on what in hindsight seem like very, very obvious hints Weiner wanted the story to go away.  Everyone here was demanding an investigation of PatriotGuyUSA etc.  But Weiner wasn't.  Blindness on the boards really

      •  While I agree with (0+ / 0-)

        that, ultimately it's not really about us.  Breitbart has now been catapulted into the stratosphere of journalistic prominence (ugh) and respectability (quadruple ugh!), entirely irrespective of anything we did or didn't do here.  But yes, I too thought the evidence was stacking up pretty convincingly against him, really from the moment it broke, but especially after the disastrous cable interviews.

        Really? A trendy expression of befuddled incredulity? Really?

        by cardinal on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:01:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The larger issue (0+ / 0-)

    is that every time he stands up to be a firebrand now, the news will be "the guy who sent photos said something today" instead of "Congressman points out real issue today".

    If he'll even address the House with the righteous outrage as he has in the past.  

    He may lose some of that fire.  And again, the press has only been slightly mature enough not to make fun of his name before.  Now that's impossible.

    Should he resign?  Nah.  But he's facing an election next year so only time will tell if his constituents still want him in there.  

    Really, though?  Online?  Pictures?  Not an alias?????  What is he, stupid?  What a numbskull thing . . .

    Why is it that a 3% tax increase for the wealthy is considered "socialism" and an 8% wage cut for the middle class is "doing your part"? MartyM

    by delphine on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:33:14 AM PDT

  •  As one more aging male lets us down, is anyone (2+ / 0-)

    discussing male sexualtiy?  My wife of 24 years was shocked by AW's actions.  I am not that surprised.  

    Perhaps someone like Bill Clinton can take this opportunity to be interviewed by someone like Terri Gross and frankly discuss the tenous relationship between (i) the marriage contract, intimacy and sexuality; (ii) how that relationship changes as men age (well beyond their historical life expectancy); (iii) how technology has affected sexuality; and (iv) how the excitement of flirting or a new affair stimulates our lives (including our work and leadership performance).

    Perhaps the most critical piece to better understand is the commitment we have to the women in our lives and how women (and perhaps most men) cherish fidelity.  

    I am not realy interested in apologies or praying.  Let's try to understand why - why we act they we do and why we embarce marriage and monogomy.

  •  Unfortunately (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roonie

    when a person lies on the level Weiner did things are never the same.  A lot of people on this site and others made fools of themselves defending him.  Weiner has lost a lot of credibility with his colleagues which will take years to rebuild if it is at all possible in the present political enviroment.  Ultimately it's up to his constituency to decide whether he stays or goes.  

  •  I'm mostly pissed off (3+ / 0-)

    that he put himself in a position where he had to apologize to Andrew fucking Breitbart.

    FFS.

    Validating Breitbart and Dan Wolfe? That's some bad shit right there. Although Colbert made me feel better last night.

    And of course, Twittergate completely crushed the Clarence Thomas story, and the Republicans are coming for your Medicare and Medicaid story.

    •  agreed. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sullivanst

      If nothing else, it's grossly negligent, forehead-smackingly atrocious politics.  And isn't one of the central tenets of defending him the fact that he's been perceived as an effective politician?  

      Really? A trendy expression of befuddled incredulity? Really?

      by cardinal on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:56:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The worst thing in all this? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stagemom, ElizabethRegina1558

    Seeing Andrew Britebart on CBS just now crowing. I would hope he will someday be relegated to obscurity. Unlike Weiner, I don't believe this mass of odious nasty produces  anything of value to society.

    The teacher who is indeed wise does not bid you to enter the house of his wisdom but rather leads you to the threshold of your mind. Khalil Gibran

    by brook on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:47:30 AM PDT

  •  Agreed.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel

    He committed a stupid human 'tweet' act, so what.  
    He lied about it, that's worse, but he admitted it and apologized.  Everyone involved was an 'adult', no one was hurt.  Anthony's private life may be hellish for some time but that's his own business.
    Who hasn't done something, at one time or another, that's stupid and embarrassing?  AND lied about it?
    No one.
    About time this puritanical country grew up.
    Time to get on with finding more jobs, better and more accessible healthcare for all and get this country back on track.
    Anthony Weiner, we need you, forget the tweets.  Please.

    I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

    by Lilyvt on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:48:18 AM PDT

  •  I have to disagree (0+ / 0-)

        It is very sad because he was one of my heroes. I loved the way he hammered the other side but there is no getting around the fact he sent pictures with sexual connotations to people on the web who he did not have any idea they were. This is where he crossed the line. He has to resign.
       I do not mind when people lie about their sex life. When asked about one's sex life there are tow things one can do. Say "no comment" or lie. It is no one's business.

    Voting for a Republican is like letting the fox in the hen house and expecting to have fried chicken for Sunday dinner- John Lucas

    by Jlukes on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:49:37 AM PDT

  •  I would say he harrassed that woman (0+ / 0-)

    Or at least started to before he deleted the picture and if she had been online to see it at the time it would have been harrassment.  Sending close up pictures of your clothed privates is not flirting.  It is stepping over a line.

  •  I don't care what they do sexually - (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel

    So long as they don't preach about sexuality and "family values". If a candidate makes political hay over other people's genitals and their preferences, then their own sex life is on the table. If a politician doesn't do that sort of shit, it's none of our damn business.

    •  I care when it steps over the line of consent (0+ / 0-)

      And that woman did not consent to seeing a semi explicit picture of him.  That is my line in the sand here.  I find it more reprehensible than engaging in a mutually consented to affair

  •  Go AWAY Weiner! (0+ / 0-)

    Otherwise, they will probably release those pornographic pictures they have on you.
    Besides, you've been 100% compromised and can no longer be trusted.

  •  Weiner should resign for making Breitbart credible (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ElizabethRegina1558

    For that sin alone Weiner should resign.

  •  I'm not asking my heros to be saints (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MaikeH, cardinal

    It's teh stupid that gets them kicked off my heros list.

    I'm not perfect, but I have standards. Without them, I'd be a republican.

  •  you need more snips, and i'm not talking about a (0+ / 0-)

    circumcision.
    you copied and pasted almost all of the article into your diary.
    that's a no-no.
    it makes me wonder if you are trying purposefully to get dkos in trouble...

  •  Weiner has neutered himself (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Caipirinha, ammaloy

    With an X-rated photo of himself in the Rightwing media's hands it will constantly be hanging over Weiner's head.

    Weiner has effectively neutered his power in Congress by the potent allures of his own testosterone. He should resign and let someone less compromised take up the banner. He has demonstrated incredibly bad judgment and juvenile behavior, especially for someone in his position.

    If people can't see how neutered Weiner is -- and will be --with X-rated photos of him ready to be displayed to the world at the whim of the Right, then I might argue that his defenders are also under the influence of judgement impairing testosterone.  

    The argument by Sullivan and others that what Weiner did is  "not so bad", "just human" entirely misses the point if we are talking politics.

  •  I'll say this... (0+ / 0-)

    he has a penchant for self-destruction.

  •  not going to get on the wagon for Weiner to resign (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10

    Anyone who has been on the internet for any amount of time has seen things they wouldn't really want to or have been asked to show their private parts. I have played many card games online and when I get that age old question: asl? I usually type in old crone. That works some of the time but sometimes not. Not sure why some people feel the need to expose themselves, caught up in the moment, perhaps? But I usually blow it off and say to myself, please, can we just not do this and leave as soon as possible. I just don't care to see men's junk online.  There was a time when I liked to flirt back when I was bored to death, middle of the winter blahs but it just seems so pointless to me anymore.  Do I find it earth shattering that Weiner would do this? No. Do I feel that he might have ruined his career and possibly his marriage? Probably yes. I am disappointed in him giving in to his lower chakra's desires and acting foolish in front of the world to see but I can't find it in my heart to dismiss him.
    I love his rants on the floor. I love that he speaks the truth on issues that he feels passionate about  that I share. His decision to say that he was hacked and trying for it to go away was not one of his brighter moments. But I do appreciate his apology. What ever happens with his wife is their business and I am sure it is a little icy in that household. None of my business.
    I just don't want him to be disgraced forever and one less reasonable voice will be missing from the business of government.

  •  as a NYer this is how I feel about all this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, Darmok, dsb

    I kinda want to smack Anthony upside his head for LYING and giving the right the opening they were hoping for to crucify him...  I DONT LIKE LIARS and Anthony made a bad panic decision that he, thankfully, corrected pretty quickly.

    As to the (highly partisan) calls for him to resign his seat...  I say fuggetabout them unless that ethics investigation comes up with proof that Weiner sexted on the tax payers time... hopefully that will not be the case but if it is Pelosi and the Dem caucus will have no choice to but move away from Weiner and he will probably be forced (by FOX and the lame stream media) to resign his seat.

    but I am not as forgiving as Sullivan is when the politician who gets caught is a FAMILY VALUES hypocrite because, while Anthony' sexcapades had no effect on anyone lives but the few people directly involved.... hypocritical family values creeps and PUBLIC homophobes who try and impose  family value morals on the country but do not live by those rules themselves DO effect everyone elses lives, and NOT for the better.

  •  My kingdom for the day (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel

    when having kinky predilections didn't sound your death knell with folks that formerly supported you...

    GreenGeezer@gmail.com for debate, complaint, BSing, venting, plotting planning, come on in. Also on Skype under Willard Chess.

    by GreenGeezer on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:35:15 AM PDT

  •  Weiner knew the truth would come out (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Michellebird

    and yet he continued to lie.

    Why?

    I don't care about any of the twitter stuff...who cares? He didn't hurt anyone or make anyone feel unsafe.

    But his behavior after this came out was utterly dispicable.  It seemed like, oh well....here's my chance to become a household word, might as well take it!

  •  He's not stealing my money or killing my grandma. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel, Enzo Valenzetti

    I would most happily vote for him if he would be so kind as to move to California. What he did is so silly compared to what my GOP Representative has been up to, that I can't even take it seriously.

    "We live now in hard times, not end times." Jon Stewart

    by tb92 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:41:58 AM PDT

  •  He is stupid (0+ / 0-)

    so go ahead, support him because he is stupid.

    "You can almost judge how screwed up somebody is by the kind of toilet paper they use." Don van Vliet, Captain Beefheart

    by Muggsy on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:50:12 AM PDT

  •  I agree. His sin was the lie. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cederico, JackND

    The rest of it, while embarrassing, really doesn't bother me at all.  I don't see any professional malfeasance.  The difference was Weiner has finally come clean and taken full responsibility and blame.  Craig, continued his lies and charades, and continues them to this day, as far as I know. Ditto for Haggard. I hope he hangs in there and rebounds. And frankly given his smarts and the sincerity of his mea culpa, I think he can.  Rooting for him.

  •  Men Behaving Badly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TiaRachel

    don't necessarily equate to badly functioning politicians.  Definitely not in Weiner's case.

    I disliked Clinton's monumentally stupid behavior but I admired his skill as a politician, and I was thankful for what he did for the American fiscal position. And I never wanted him to resign office.

    Weiner's slapped himself up the side of his own head.  If he now puts that head down and goes back to work with a new focus, then the media attention will blow over.  Let that be an end to it.

    Readers & Book Lovers Pull up a chair! You're never too old to be a Meta Groupie

    by Limelite on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:56:32 AM PDT

  •  Check out the peccadilloes of the founding fathers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Spencer Troxell, TiaRachel

    Alexander Hamilton had an affair with a married woman.  Thomas Jefferson was porking one of his slave women.  They all drank like fish.

    Our founding fathers were no better than any of us . . . which means exactly that we can be as great they were . . . bad habits and all.

    •  But Hamilton copped to it (0+ / 0-)

      in spectacularly detailed fashion, wasn't in elected office when he did it, and was effectively destroyed for it politically (which was the intention of those who outed him, led by future hypocrite in chief Jefferson). Hell, these two men practically invented the "politics of personal destruction".

      Also, Lincoln sometimes slept in the same bed with another man!

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 10:28:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Disagree!!! (5+ / 0-)

    This whole story reveals an immature adolescent liar without the ability to control impulse behavior.  This is not the guy I want representing my party, my country or me in Washington.  Seriously.  It's not like he hasn't seen other guys go down in flames because of the same behaviour. He can't learn from the mistakes of others.  That makes him even more of an idiot.  The guy practices BAD judgement.  He should step down and maybe re-enter the arena after he demostrates he can control himself.

    Size 7 1/4 Aluminum Picture Hat

    by fishhawk on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:08:24 AM PDT

  •  As long as Clarence Thomas.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...that filthy pervert, is on the Supreme Court, and David Vitter is in the Senate, Anthony Weiner should stay in Congress.

    Andrew Breitbart may have been right.  I owe him a Coke.  A can with a curly hair on it.  And a fish dinner at Long Dong John Silver's.

    9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

    by varro on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:08:53 AM PDT

  •  liked Sullivan's take (0+ / 0-)

    pretty much my view, too.

    Thanks!

    “The most important trip you may take in life is meeting people halfway” ~ Henry Boye~

    by Terranova0 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:31:00 AM PDT

  •  What is it to be a Progressive? (5+ / 0-)

    I ALWAYS knew in being a Progressive, I held different values, mores, standards, principles, from Conservatives.

    Since when is KICKING A MAN WHEN HE IS DOWN, INSTEAD OF HELPING HIM UP a Progressive value? That idea is a Conservative value.

    Judge Weiner as a husband? Leave that to his wife.
    Judge Weiner as a man? Leave that to God.
    Judge him as a Progressive in the Dem Party? Knock yourself out.

    This has been a putrid feeding frenzy, like pirrahanas in a fish tank.

    Someone write a diary: "What can we do to help Rep Weiner now?" Wouldn't it be something if we all came together under that diary & supported one of our own? I can see Breitbart smoldering now to think that he didn't force DailyKos to abandon a Progressive.  Too many here taste blood, and they like it....enough to become what we have always hated.

    This whole world's wild at heart and weird on top....Lula

    by anninla on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:37:41 AM PDT

    •  Amen to that. Are we being set up? (0+ / 0-)

      I always thought progressives were more tolerant and rational than this. Makes me wonder if someone is trying to pull a fast one while we're looking the other way.

      Assuming the photos are legit, doesn't it seem rather convenient that they somehow found their way back to Breitbart? Or have we become too distracted to notice?

      If some numbnut sent me pics like that, I'd tell him to knock it off. I sure as heck wouldn't drag it out into the public eye. I would NOT want the attention. But then again, I don't have an agenda. Something about this just doesn't pass the smell test.  

  •  Lame Rationalization by Sullivan (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Darmok, cardinal, davidkc

    On my first trip to Brazil's interior, my local guide explained that despite the presence of Piranhas, swimming in the Amazon River was perfectly safe --so long as I had no open cuts or wounds.

    Needless to say, every time I entered the water I first checked myself completely and thoroughly to make absolutely certain there was no risk. Still, my basic survival instinct kept me slightly wary of what might be moving around me.  

    Rep. Weiner has no excuse for willfully ignoring the predator-infested waters in which he swims everyday as member of Congress.

    •  politicians are self-selected narcissistic group (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wordwraith

      Well, I don't really accept an underlying assumption in Sullivan's articles, and in a lot of the discussion that goes on after repeated scandals involving different politicians.

      He is essentially saying that the representative (and other politicians) are typical of most people in the country, and that most people have equivalent histories and would have embarrassing backgrounds which would be revealed if they became prominent. In fact typical residents are probably twice as much of a mess as the representative.

      Actually, no... I think a different dynamic is at work. People who have what it takes to get through a primary and then become elected are not ordinary people. They are a self selected group with personality characteristics where they want to be loved by everyone, are very assertive and aggressive. They are probably far more likely to be corruptible than regular people in the community such as your elementary teachers, your parents, your neighbors.

      politicians deserve twice the scrutiny as your coworkers etc. because they are in a very corruptible position

      •  The system itself selects for narcissism-- (0+ / 0-)

        the grandiosity that assumes one is above the common herd and somehow immune from the "rules."  A sense of entitlement dulls judgment and common sense, which alone would dictate to one in his position that any missteps would be gleefully pounced upon by the opposition.  

        Have all the grownups left the room?  Have we become so accustomed to sociopathic behavior in positions of power and responsibility that now we have to tie ourselves in knots to justify it, just because he was one of "ours"?

        The man can't be taken seriously anymore.  He's done real damage to himself, his party and the progressive cause.  These are seriously bad times, and we need spokespersons with dignity and credibility, not someone who can be derailed because they can't refrain from indulging in selfish, junior-high antics.  The right-controlled media cherish sideshows like this to distract attention from our ever faster-swirling progress down the drain.

        Look how much time and energy has been wasted on this appalling fiasco, while the world copes with nuclear meltdowns, floods, fires, economic disaster, stupid wars and attacks on our most treasured democratic principles and institutions.  We don't have time for this ridiculous crap--we have to FOCUS!  

  •  weiner is a joke (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shannon S

    if you can be an effective legislator and be a joke, ok. if you can be a trusted member doing the peoples business taking pay from the peoples funds, and be a joke, ok. but he is a joke, that will never change now.

    wanna see my wiener?

    surely policy must start to take ascendance some day over personality. i say he should have quit yesterday.

    he made complete fools out of his supporters.

    he will quit.

  •  Pretty pathetic (6+ / 0-)

    All the excuses and un-hinged defense of Weiner we've seen on Dkos is a shame.  I feel embarrased for this site.  Lets have some freaking standards people.  Weiner not only lied but stabbed us all in the back.  

    Defending him is pathetic.

  •  There should be some penalty for being a liar. (0+ / 0-)

    The sorry bullshit that all politicians lie is beyond lame. Colin Powell goes to the UN and lies us into a war and people still respect him and thousands die. Republicans take to the floor in congress and lie about planned parenthood and there is no penalty so innocent women will die from lack of healthcare. I would not put dick pictures in the same category but defending liars is idiotic.

  •  Sullivan has amended his comment (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    randomfacts, Michellebird

    as he often does, to say that on second thought, Weiner is a douche for lying.

    "Thanks for all the emails on Weiner. Reading them and thinking this through some more overnight, I think I was too brusque in dealing with the fact that he lied. We are all human, and I'm with Dan Savage on the core issue of "same old horniness, brand new box." But lying so consciously to his constituents over an embarrassment and lying to his wife does begin to trouble me in the light of a new day. Yes, he copped to his lies. And he has been humiliated enough. But still ... if we do not try to hold elected officials to telling the truth, what basic civic standards are we prepared to defend?

    http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/...

  •  THE F-N POINT IS THIS!!!: (0+ / 0-)

    By Rep. Weiner's own account he did NOT know how old these females were/are!!!  With any "certitude".

    Flirting, lying...not good but no crime...no shit!

    But send a pic of yourself and or your cock in underwear to a possible minor?

    You're OUT!!  Who would even try to rationalize that?

    And I am/was A big fan of this guy.  This is a big loss for the left.

  •  Here's How I'd Like to See Someone Respond (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Enzo Valenzetti

    First, if sending offensive materials through mail, broadcast media or electronic media is something that would justify resignation, any Senator or Congressperson who has publicized, endorsed or voted in favor of the Ryan/Republican Budget Proposal should:

    1) Offer a Tearful Apology (many of Weiner's phrases could be adopted with very little change).
    2) Immediately Resign.

    Second, maybe this incident should start a conversation about what is really important for our members of Congress.

    In the middle of battle, you don't focus on parking tickets.  Those who propose to do so should be assigned to duties where their stupidity will do the least amount of harm.

    What would have been better for Weiner to say, what might be better next time (the likelihood of which rivals that of the sun coming up tomorrow), is for the member of Congress to use the Cheney response*.  

    (Weiner only did a part of this, because he denied the allegation.)

    Next time, this is what I'd like to hear from the elected official:

    So.  Really.  "So what?

    "If you can convince me how tweeting pictures that reveal no more than the average swim suit has any bearing on the national interest or in any way compromises my ability to perform the job for which I was elected, I'd be happy to resign.  

    If not, lets talk about the obscenity of the Ryan Budget Plan embraced by the House and Senate Republicans.  

    Let's talk about the irresponsibility and poor judgment of pandering to the rich by not only refusing to tax them more, but proposing to cut their taxes, and cut only their taxes - not those of the rest of Americans.

     Let's talk about the last 30 years of tax, trade and regulatory policy that has shifted the rewards from our economy away from the middle class and away from our own citizens and diverted it to a small elite group of people who make up the Global Thieving Class.  

    Let's talk about the insideous rotting away of our Constitutional foundation, the loss of individual privacy and security in your home and possessions, the rule of law, the equal application of the law, the role of Government to stand up for people and stand up to powerful interests.  Let's talk about the future of our Democracy.  

    If you can honestly convince me that tweeting pictures like this is somehow more important than those issues, I'd be happy to spend as much time as you ask on this matter.  If not, I'll no more respond to this than I would waste the time of the Congress debating the latest celebrity scandal or reality show melodrama.  

    On personal issues, those who are part of my personal life will do the judging. Those relationships are not part of my job.   They came before, come first, and will continue after this job and frankly that's none of your (press) business.  

    The voters of my District/State will judge me on my stands on public issues and on how I've fulfilled my responsibility as an elected official.  

    I believe they voters will judge me on how I address the issues that actually affect their lives and not on some made-up standard by which the media judges the ratings potential of the latest celebrity misbehavior.

     While I believe those elected to public office as well as all those who work in the public arena, must live up to a higher standard, the most important part of that standard is how we perform the public duties for which we were elected, the integrity, courage and persistence with which we conduct those public duties.

    * Do we allow financial interest or campaign contributions to seduce us into doing what is harmful to those we represent?

    * Do we become entrapped by the culture that worships wealth and power (and celebrity) and give in to the temptations of priviledge and ease while betraying the millions of Americans than are depending on us and that sent us here to protect them and defend their interests?

    * Do we secretly sell their future and then lie about it on Sunday talk shows?

    * Do we spout the rhetoric of freedom, justice and the American Dream while our conduct betrays those principles on which this Nation was founded ?

    How we live our personal lives is important.  

    But here in this place when serving as Senators and Congresspersons, our own personal lives are secondary because no matter what we do as mere people, what we do in our official roles as elected officials is much more important.  


    *The difference being that Cheney's response was directed towards the growing sentiment of the American people opposing the war in Iraq - a decidedly public matter.

    We'd rather dream the American Dream than fight to live it or to give it to our kids. What a shame. What an awful, awful shame.

    by Into The Woods on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:12:28 AM PDT

  •  show me a hero who isn't flawed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dianna

    we have to accept the good with the bad, those often being arbitrary distinctions, mind you.  For example, look at the great hero of the Right Ronald Reagan.  If his supporters actually knew the truth about him - that he raised taxes eleven times after lowering them once, that he hated "nukular" weapons and wanted to rid the world of them, that he actually might have retarded the dissolution of the Soviet Union by insisting on policies like the SSI (debatable but to hear Gorbachev and others certainly supportable), the list goes on, it might color their adoration.  One person's hero is another's villian.

  •  I personally don't see him resigning (0+ / 0-)

    or changing his firebrand personality.  It's in his nature.

  •  Timing is everything (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raven luna6

    Rep. Weiner was all over Clarence Thomas.

    I have a really hard time believing there is no connection.

    "The fears of one class of men are not the measure of the rights of another." ~ George Bancroft (1800-1891)

    by JBL55 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:07:49 PM PDT

  •  Total Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Futuristic Dreamer, mim5677

    I have always been skeptical of Weiner's credentials as a "liberal lion."  He talks a good game but has accomplished little as a legislator.  It has always seemed clear to me that he has made himself the darling of MSNBC, Daily Kos, etc., in order to strengthen himself with white liberal Manhattan Democrats so as to enhance his chances of being elected Mayor.  It is helpful to know something about Weiner's history.  His first foray into electoral politics occurred when he ran for City Council in 1991.  His principal opponent in the Democratic primary (the equivalent of winning the election) was Adele Cohen, who had strong Progressive credentials.  The election was taking place on the heels of the Crown Heights riots, which created enormous racial tension in NYC, particularly between blacks and Jews.  In this atmosphere, unsigned leaflets began showing up attacking Cohen for supporting the "David Dinkins/Jesse Jackson Agenda".  Initially, Weiner denied that his campaign had anything to do with the leaflets - sound familiar?  Weiner narrowly beat out Cohen in what was considered a major upset.  After getting elected, more evidence surfaced connecting Weiner to the racist leaflets, and Weiner ultimately admitted that he was behind them - again, sound familiar? Read about it here:  http://mobile.salon.com/...

    This dishonest opportunist should exit the scene as soon as possible.  He is a drain on the Democratic Party and we will be well rid of him.

  •  The broader argument is that he's now (4+ / 0-)

    a net liability to progressivism. He's shown he's willing to lie and betray his supporters and the people closest to him. He's shown he's willing to risk everything he supposedly fights for and speaks about on crass sexual escapades. He's shown that he's pretty friggin' stupid. And worst of all, his name will now forever be associated with this scandal and with Breitbart having a field day.

    I'm pretty angry at him, but the argument for him to resign isn't about ill will, in the end. It's not about "piling on" -- I have some sympathy for him, actually, what he must be going through. The argument for him to resign for me is that he's no longer going to be an effective progressive advocate, he can't. He's a net liability to us. Therefore there's no use for him anymore.

    "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

    by randomfacts on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 12:19:48 PM PDT

  •  There is no myth of the saint. I'm right here ! (0+ / 0-)

    As for Anthony Weiner, I guess it was very dumb what he did.
    He should know there is no privacy when you interact over the internet.  After that French joker got in trouble for attacking a housekeeper employee at a hotel two weeks ago and now Rep. Weiner with this, I think these privileged guys sometimes forget that even they can't do whatever they want to satisfy themselves.  Other than that who cares that Weiner flirted with women or sent nude photos over the internet.  I am more shocked and outraged about the misplaced priorities of our government and the inhumane budget proposals of that dirtbag party called the GOP (Group of Pricks)

  •  The Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    are hoping and praying he does not resign.

  •  Sorry, but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Prince Nekhlyudov, mim5677

    anyone who tweets  his own dick pix doesn't have the event horizon of a gnat, and is accordingly unfit for public office.

  •  Public figures should be allowed private lives. (0+ / 0-)

    However, when they preach, prescribe and pontificate about other people's private lives, and especially when they try to regulate and legislate about them...that's when they set themselves up as fair game. That's when they're tempting fate, and inviting scrutiny and exposure.

    As far as I'm concerned, Wiener doesn't fit that description. Nor does Edwards, however irresponsible that behaviour was in a possible President. Nor did Clinton in his time.

    In my book, he's still the Wiener I admired before all this shabby stuff came to light.

    Lay off the footwork and throw a punch! ~ Joe Bageant

    by gotgat54 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 01:17:30 PM PDT

  •  problem is..... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Expat Texan

    ...he is now almost usless as a liberal lion because he won't be heard through the laughing and sinckering or beyond the punchline.  He has lost credibility and will not be able to push through anything important, or even take credit for it.

    He has now become usless as an advocate for change and an actual embarasment for our party and an excuse for others to behave badly.

    We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

    by delver rootnose on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 01:18:40 PM PDT

  •  I agree with this diary BUT (0+ / 0-)

    I'm also just gonna STFU to see if further details shake out. He may or may not have used a fair amount of government time & funds for his extracurriculars.

  •  The bus is coming (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Expat Texan, Superpole, roots40

    and Weiner will be thrown beneath it. No colleagues are supporting him and Pelosi called for an ethics probe. Not going to be easy for him to hang in without resigning.

    And he's in what's been a safe Dem district since the 1920s, so the Dems can run a loaf of bread there and retain the seat.

    •  pelosi had to call for the probe (0+ / 0-)

      but if he told the truth in the press conference there wont be anything to find...

      this is between weiner and his constituents if they want him to stay thats fine with me...

      who are we to say he has to go, he doesnt represent me and isnt even from my state...

      I know a lot of people play the distraction card but if it isnt this its something else with the 24 hour news media so to me thats weak also...

  •  I predict he will be forced to resign (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dianna, Expat Texan

    by Democrats.  Weiner is one of the FEW good Democrats in the House, and that is why he will be forced out by other house dems who must see him as a loose cannon.  He's not spineless enough to fit in.

    Furthermore, Obama has a reelection in 2012.  Dems most loyal to Obama will want Weiner gone to make him a non-issue in 2012.

    Also heard on CNN today that Weiner's seat will be removed by redistricting, regardless.  That tells you something right there about his support within the party.  They didn't even fight for him when it came to redistricting.  

    So they probably have already written him off and would just as soon see him go away.  That way there will be fewer to complain if/when they compromise on shit like Medicare "reform."

    •  id love to see the GOP try and make weiner (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      OldDragon

      an issue in 2012... how do you run that ad? Known Sexter anthony weiner is seen here shaking hands with obama...

      I mean lets be real... the dems have never been the party of family values so its not like we lose any support nationally for the scandal...

      I think its very possible he is forced to resign but he shouldnt and certainly not for the reasons above

  •  It's all about Breitbart.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

     And for me, that's the most unforgivable aspect of this whole thing. Weiner has now gone and given that fuckhead the illusion of credibility. That's a horrible consequence.

    •  IMHO *that's* what so many here can't forgive (0+ / 0-)

      They really, really thought that this time they could finally hang Breitbart by his figgin, and they were just champing at the bit to do it - and of course this was the one time there were some real coals under the smoke.

      Well, tough noogies. Weiner's a Jerk Ass and Breitbart's a Karma Houdini, and we're mad as spoiled little children because we didn't get the nice neat morality play we wanted.

      So now, way too many Kossacks are doing unto Weiner what they wanted to do unto Breitbart.

      The stupidity around here isn't all Weiner's.

      If it's
      Not your body
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      AND it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 03:34:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the initial lies were the problem IMO, but (0+ / 0-)

    there's an easy fix to that. Find upfront/honest ways for politicians to do this kind of thing openly.

    Fortunately there's a movement underway to get it done:

    Supported by a broad bipartisan coalition, PoliticiansGoneWild.gov is intended to “remove the stigma all too often associated with sending suggestive photos to near-strangers, finding sexual partners for hetero and gay encounters and just generally trying to get some even though we’re married,” said a spokesperson for the site.

    Feds launch new website: PoliticiansGoneWild.gov

    Seriously, though, the lies were wrong and copping to them doesn't change that for me, since the reason for coming clean about it could simply be that it would have come out eventually with scrutiny.

    To me it doesn't matter what the lie was about. Lies are lies, and IMO it having to do with a crotch shot is irrelevant at that level.

    Sure, better to admit them than not, but the initial action was to lie, and that says something that might have relevance for actual political issues related to governing.

  •  Thanks for this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yank2351

    and for the quote which explains Sullivan's point of view so well.

  •  speaking of (0+ / 0-)

    professional crotch-watchers  just saw Joe DiGenova on Hardball.

    ...shudders-- capital C creepy

    “The most important trip you may take in life is meeting people halfway” ~ Henry Boye~

    by Terranova0 on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 02:31:35 PM PDT

  •  Porno star asked to lie (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Expat Texan

    You think this is the type of guy to be representing democrats? Logic fail.

    http://beta.news.yahoo.com/...

    "Ginger Lee: A former porn star, Lee allegedly sexted with Weiner for months. She has provided emails to TMZ that allegedly show Weiner pressured her to lie about their relationship—going so far as offer "someone on team" to advise her on how to handle the media. On June 2, Weiner allegedly drafted a statement for Lee, that suggested she was merely followed the congressman on Twitter. "The key is to have a short, thought out statement that tackles the top line questions and then refer people back to it," Weiner allegedly wrote. "Have a couple of iterations of: 'This is silly . . . . And then maybe insert some y'alls in there."

  •  Weiner Must Resign (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Expat Texan, roots40, cordobes

    I sext, webcam and watch porn.

    I also don't run for public office.

    Not that our elected officials should be perfect, but they are role models accountable to the public.

    He's a distraction dragging down the party.

    As some of you defended Edwards to your last breath, the DKOS lacks credibility for dealing with assholes.

    He's got to go and NOW.

    PS I was Weiner for Mayor bandwagoner, now I'm on the Christine Quinn Express!

    •  Clinton gave us "W", who will Weiner give us? (0+ / 0-)

      Politicians have far more impact on our lives than their always pathetic and over extended egos should ever allow.

      Clinton and Monica Lewinsky gave us George W. Bush.  Never forget it!!!!

      Had Clinton not screwed around with Lewinsky,   Democrats would have had good momentum going into 2000.   Most likely we would have had Gore,  no 9-11, no Iraq and Afghanistan and no economic collapse due to the deregulation and pigs of Wall St.

      Forget Weiner and Clinton.   Their individual egos means nothing as does their legacy.    What means something is how their actions affect the electorate at large and the outcome.  

      Weiner needs gone yesterday.    

      Clinton also gave us NAFTA, Most Favored Nation for China, and bank deregulation.  Bill Clinton hurt us very bad as a nation.  

    •  to me this is between weiner and his constituents (0+ / 0-)

      if his constituents want him out then fine... but he does not owe me a duty... he does not represent my district or even my state...

      who am I to say someone else's congressman should resign... if he feels he can still do his job effectively and his constituents want to re-elect him then he should stay...

      it is a distraction but there is always some distraction so to me thats really weak argument

      he broke no laws... he screwed around online...

      •  Are you serious? (0+ / 0-)

        You've never commented on another congressmen and senators (and governors, state legislators, etc.) except your own?

        Weiner is a negative for the Dem party all over the country. Hence, he should resign. Act as a team player for once in your career.

        •  i have commented of course (0+ / 0-)

          but I dont call for them to step down...

          I can honestly say I haven't done that. Thats upto that person.

          If they want to be an embarrassment and their constituents dont care. Its fine by me.

          Especially when it does not call into question something LEGAL. This is a moral issue. He did nothing illegal.

          Sure Ensign should have resigned because what he did was ILLEGAL. He broke the law

          But Weiner did not...Also its a "negative" in an off election year? I mean really? Yes it distracts from the debt limit discussion and how bad the economy is sucking still but I dont see that right now as a bad thing... And its not like the GOP can run ads on this... What would the ads say?? So and so took money from a known sexter? Or look here is so and so shaking hands and hugging an known adulterer??

          Its not like the dems have ever been considered the party of family values so I do not see how this hurts them in the long run

  •  Thanks for posting this. I support Rep. Weiner. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yank2351, OldDragon

    Uncategorically.

    I hate it when even fellow Dems pile on for the most idiotic of reasons, that the target of admiration is proved to human foibles.

    And that blackmail bidness threatened by Dimbarf should be watched carefully. Weiner did not go after Dimbarf, insofar as I have seen. So the threat is to go after Weiner because others have gone after Dimbarf. Now that's sinister and possibly actionable.

  •  Weiner is also just "a slave to his impules" :) (0+ / 0-)
  •  it's a guy thing? (0+ / 0-)

    With the newer messages coming out, isn't it time to figure that Weiner is a guy who's so proud of his johnson, he needs to brag on it and that's like really weird for a guy his age?  

    I think he's probably bi-polar, and he does this stuff when he's in a manic phase and feels invulnerable and itchy, but still he's not someone to defend.  His politics are fine, it's his judgment that makes him just too unreliable.  

    I mean, i do pity him, he's suffering and he has impulses he can't control and he's unable to protect himself, this is all self-inflicted and all just 'a matter of time,' but has anyone noticed there aren't any females who gross people out in the self-revealing way?  Nope, so far all guys, and very adolescent out-of-touch ones.  

    It's a form of 'flashing,' in his unconscious he needed all of us to look at his dong.  Gross!!!

    Just say it: Medicare for All

    by anna shane on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:22:29 PM PDT

    •  Of course there are (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      anna shane

      Unless you meant female politicians and in that case you're right - as far as we know, which is basically nothing.

      If you mean females in general, just visit some sites like 4chan. You'll find dozens of girls "camwhoring" in exchange of attention.

      •  meaning the power thing (0+ / 0-)

        it's in the culture now for nobodies to embarrass themselves and not mind, that's rather liberating, sort of.

        I do mean female politicians, seems there is either more public service in the gene pool or less horniness?  

        Just say it: Medicare for All

        by anna shane on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 06:12:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Currently watching Chris Matthews (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jose Bidenio, roots40

    sticking a fork in Weiner.  He is done.  Initiated contact with lewd pictures.  I don't know which to consider the most stupid, doing this sort of thing or his arrogant behavior and serial lies for a week.  So lacking in judgement and class he has to go, and the sooner the better.

    Tea Parties are for little girls with imaginary friends.

    by J Edward on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:34:27 PM PDT

  •  His penis is now iconic: we will not be able (0+ / 0-)

    to look at him for a long, long time without the photos being projected on him. That's how our brains work. And the unfortunate (what wd Freud say?) juxtaposition of name and icon makes this a perfect storm. Jay Leno is still making money off Monica Lewinsky's name. Weiner is going to have to go.

    Every day you have less reason not to give yourself away. -Wendell Berry

    by ammaloy on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 04:52:39 PM PDT

  •  Lying the worst sin? (0+ / 0-)

    Here's my view:

    Journalists hound congressman about his sex life -- breach of ethics, unsavory behavior.

    Congressman has flirting type of sex life beyond his marriage that many consider unsavory, perhaps also unethical.  Congressman lies in public to protect his family, (we don't know what he tells his family in private).

    And the main sin here is the public lie??

    I don't get it.

    Listen up, guys! It turns out that if we don't hurry up and change the world, later it's the world that changes us. --Mafalda

    by forester on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 05:42:28 PM PDT

  •  He Didn't Kill Anyone, He Didn't Have Physical (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    sex with anyone.  If any of the women he sent picture to did not want them they could have deleted them or told him to quit sending them.  These were grown woman.  I know how to tell someone off or delete an email.  He did ask one to lie for him as a favor.  I am sure that many of us have asked someone to lie for us at some time in our life or will someday.  Obviously the man got off on exchanging pictures and talking sex.  I could think of worse things, like taking millions of dollars away from women who need health care or telling people who went thru a disaster to go FTS.

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 06:28:06 PM PDT

  •  Attack Dog Trump Weighs In (0+ / 0-)

    http://gawker.com/...

    Hilarious...

    "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

    by Superpole on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 07:07:57 PM PDT

  •  Thank you, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yank2351, cordobes, Spencer Troxell

    but I'm still not going to read 703 comments. :-)

    Others have simply gotten old. I prefer to think I've been tempered by time.

    by Just Bob on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 08:49:37 PM PDT

  •  No,he didn't kill anyone, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    he didn't have sex with anyone.
    What he did was be stupid beyond all belief. I am so fucking sick of male politicians who think they are bullet-proof.

    I do not excuse him. He is a stupid, stupid fuck.

    Is there any male politician worth a shit? And don't tell me Obama, because I'm over him. Whistleblowers? Coal mining in Wyoming?

    It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -- Thomas Jefferson

    by AtlantaJan on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 09:07:10 PM PDT

  •  It's All About the Blackmail . . . . (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cordobes

    No one can be a dependable progressive if he is compulsively handing over blackmail material to perfect strangers.

    Those strangers, and/or the Brietbarts of the world -- to whom they could (and did) upstream the material -- cannot be handed leverage over a national legislator so easily and recklessly.

  •  The corporate media even had a name for (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    Bill Clinton's penis- the "Clenis".The repiglicans brought up Mary Jo Kopechne over and over again, yet Ted Kennedy had a long and productive career in the Senate. He was universally loved and respected despite numerous photos of him drunk, and in his underwear.  You have to be thick-skinned to be a pol. Anthony Weiner is perfectly capable of weathering this. I don't think he should resign. I don't think Spitzer should have resigned. And I, too, have Weiner's back. His front-not so much. He was stupid, but he wasn't evil. And he is no hypocrite.

    "They had fangs. They were biting people. They had this look in their eyes,totally cold, animal. I think they were young Republicans."

    by slouching on Tue Jun 07, 2011 at 11:55:59 PM PDT

  •  When you are elected (0+ / 0-)

    on "Traditional Values" as a part of your platform of support, gain votes and political power on the stand that you are supporting Family Life and Straight Arrow Missionary Sexuality as the American Way, then sexting is a political suicide.

    When you are elected seven times, on a platform of Financial Reform, Trust Busting and breaking Corporate Influence in the Government, and you then are caught taking Corporate Money for legislation, THAT is political suicide.

    Do not conflate the two. Weiner has personal flaws, perhaps, but he has not been politically hypocritical.

    The Repubs want Progressives to suffer for THEIR sins. What is so unusual about that? That is their way of life. Weiner has nothing to apologize for, except to his wife and kids. If he were single, there would be no issue here.

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Wed Jun 08, 2011 at 05:57:19 AM PDT

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