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So...I've only done this once or twice but because of popular demand I'm allowing a "guest dairy" by Dan Yurman of the famous pro-nuclear blog, Idaho Samizdat. I know, I know, one isn't supposed to do this, but it's a rare thing and needs to be done to generate discussion and clear up matters more effectively than Arny Gunderson's ravings on the subject. Report me, beat me, expel me, I don't really care...it's about the discussion, after all...so HERE it is:

The reactor is reported to be in no danger as the Missouri River hits flood stage

The Missouri River flooding is bringing waves of concern nationwide about the safety of the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant.

Business Insider, a news aggregator, has  a story and a video predicting all manner of nuclear catastrophe at the Ft. Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant.  Readers might ask what is really going on?

The answer is that while the Missouri River is rising, the reactor is safe.  As the flood waters continue to rise, a spokesman for Omaha Public Power District says the plant is at a "notification of unusual event" classification because of the flood.

It is required by the NRC because of the flood. That is the lowest level in an emergency. Company officials say there has been no release of radioactivity at Fort Calhoun Station due to the flooding and none is expected.

Plant in cold shutdown

The Omaha Public Power District has been prepared for the floods and the plant is safe. It has been in a cold shutdown since April because of a planned refueling. Although water from the Missouri is higher than the plant now; the vital area of the plant is surrounded by a 2,000-foot long berm that takes the protective level up about six feet -- to 1,010 feet or five feet above the river level.  As of J10 AM June 16, the water is at 1,005 feet.

According to plant officials and the NRC the emergency power diesel are primed to come on if the loss of offsite power is imminent. Enough diesel fuel has been stockpiled to run the plant for a month, and the generators are in hardened (flood protected) bunkers. Provisions have been made for resupply if necessary. And extra diesel has been laid in. switchyard is protected with a berm up to 1011 feet.

FAA “no fly zone”

Also, there are concerns because the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) issued a “no fly” zone over the reactor.

I spoke by phone with Mike Jones, a spokesman for the plant.  He told me that due to the rising flood waters, a lot of planes and news helicopters were flying over the reactor and some were coming in quite low.

The plant manager told the FAA he was concerned they might collide with power lines or each other.  This is the reason the FAA issued a Notice to Airmen banning over-flights of the reactor.  The NRC says this isn’t a an issue regarding the potential release of radiation.

Here’s what the NRC’s spokesman said about it

“After last week’s Alert, and with all the interest in flooding on the Missouri, news helicopters began flying near the plant. We understand that the plant owner contacted the FAA and asked them to remind pilots of the basic NOTAM is still in effect.  As far as we can tell that had zero to do with the plant operations and everything to do with assisting in flood relief.”


And now for the rest of the story

The Omaha Public Power District has a web page to spike other rumors. Here’s a summary.

Rumor: Fort Calhoun Nuclear Station is at a Level 4 emergency or level 4 alert.

    * This terminology is not accurate, and is not how emergencies at nuclear power plants are classified.
    * Fort Calhoun Station (FCS) declared a Notification of Unusual Event (NOUE) on June 6. A NOUE is the least-serious of four emergency classifications established by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
    * FCS declared a NOUE because the Missouri River was projected to reach 1,004 feet above mean sea level. (It reached that height on June 9.)
    * The FCS plant’s reactor has been in cold shut down for a planned refueling outage since April 9. It will remain in that condition until the river recedes.
    * The reactor and spent-fuel pool are in a normal, stable condition and are both protected; there has been no release of radioactivity and none is expected.

Rumor: A no-fly zone was set up around Fort Calhoun Nuclear Station because of a release of radiation, similar to what happened with the Fukushima reactors in Japan.

    * There has been no release of radioactivity at Fort Calhoun Station due to the flooding and none is expected.
    * The flight restrictions were set up by the FAA as a result of Missouri river flooding.
    * OPPD’s extensive, preplanned actions to protect the FCS reactor and spent-fuel pool from the floodwaters have been effective.
    * The reactor is housed in a watertight containment building, and is in a normal and safe “cold shutdown” condition, covered by more than 23 feet of purified reactor coolant water.
    * In addition, OPPD has installed Aqua Dams® and other berms around such vital equipment and buildings at the FCS site.

Rumor: Because of a fire at Fort Calhoun Nuclear Station on June 7, the plant’s spent-fuel pool was in danger of boiling and releasing radioactivity.

    * There was no such imminent danger with the Fort Calhoun Station spent-fuel pool.
    * Due to a fire in an electrical switchgear room at FCS on the morning of June 7, the plant temporarily lost power to a pump that cools the spent-fuel pool.
    * The fire-suppression system in that switchgear room operated as designed, extinguishing the fire quickly.
    * FCS plant operators switched the spent-fuel pool cooling system to an installed backup pump about 90 minutes after the loss of power.
    * During the interruption of cooling, temperature of the pool increased a few degrees, but the pool was never in danger of boiling.
    * Due to this situation, FCS declared an Alert at about 9:40 a.m. on June 7.
    * An alert is the second-least-serious of four emergency classifications established by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
    * At about 1:15 p.m. on June 7, FCS operators declared they had taken all appropriate measures to safely return to the previously declared Notification of Unusual Event emergency classification. (See first item above.)

Originally posted to davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 08:25 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (12+ / 0-)

    Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

    by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 08:24:21 AM PDT

  •  Questions about this (6+ / 0-)

    because you have apparently got a source of info that we the people don't have...

    The original declaration of unusual event had to do with the danger floodwaters presented to the electrical wiring and switching for coolant pumps (and whatever, like incoming offsite power), right? The fire was caused by some issues with the electrical wiring and switching and whatever, right? So, was the fire caused by floodwaters getting into the electrical system and shorting them out?

    NOT mentioned in the declaration, but listed among the problems found but never fixed in a recent NRC inspection having to do with flood resistance, is that some of the buildings are vulnerable to floodwater coming on in. Is one of the buildings at risk the one that contains the spent fuel pool? Which, if this is a proper PWR, is in-ground, right?

    Seems to me that if floodwater can get in, it can also get out. Not just depositing a lot of silt and muck into the fuel pool, but taking some of the pool's water out with it when it recedes. How are they dealing with that during this ongoing event?

    Thanks.

    Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

    by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 08:42:22 AM PDT

    •  Response (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Joieau, bryfry
      The original declaration of unusual event had to do with the danger floodwaters presented to the electrical wiring and switching for coolant pumps (and whatever, like incoming offsite power), right?

      The Notice of Unusual Event (NOUE or "unusual event") for Ft. Calhoun is declared at a flood height of 1,004 ft. (roughly flood stage for the Missouri River). That level does not threaten the plant. But it started a series of plant actions to protect it from even higher water levels.

      The fire was caused by some issues with the electrical wiring and switching and whatever, right?

      Last I heard, the cause of the fire was still under investigation but there was no obvious indication it was related to the flood (e.g. no standing water in the switchgear room). I would expect the cause to be discussed in an NRC inspection report in a month or so if people are willing to hold their horses for the investigation to be completed.

      NOT mentioned in the declaration, but listed among the problems found but never fixed in a recent NRC inspection having to do with flood resistance, is that some of the buildings are vulnerable to floodwater coming on in. Is one of the buildings at risk the one that contains the spent fuel pool? Which, if this is a proper PWR, is in-ground, right?

      If we are talking about the same inspection finding, the plant claimed in its Safety Analysis Report that it could withstand floods up to around 1,014 ft. but their procedures for sandbagging and such only provided protection up to about 1,013 ft. The flood waters are currently well below that. I'm more of a BWR guy so I can't speak authoritatively on CE spent fuel pools. I know some plants (Babcock and Wilcox reactors and later BWRs) can have a weird transfer canal set up that allows the spent fuel pools to be quite a bit lower than the top of the reactor, but I thought Westinghouse and CE reactors like Fort Calhoun had above grade spent fuel pools. I haven't been able to find reliable info one way or the other.  

      •  Thanks, Blubba. (0+ / 0-)

        As I said, I didn't encounter the spent fuel pool at TMI, it was too new to have anything in it if they'd already built it (but I never saw it, they may have been planning to install later). Probably a good thing the canal wasn't in yet (if that's the case), as it would have presented yet another route of release. There was 10 feet of RCS flooding the entirety of containment after the accident, and another 6 feet flooding the aux building basement. Took 'em ten years to get it cleaned up enough (demineralizer resins) to release, and another several years to get the okay to release.

        Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

        by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:31:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  All good news if true. Let's hope that they (5+ / 0-)

    are more honest than TEPCO was.

    Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? . . . and respect the dignity of every human being.

    by Wee Mama on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 08:53:39 AM PDT

  •  generally agree, but this is overly reassuring... (5+ / 0-)

    We generally agree with this post; there is no evidence of immediate danger from Fort Calhoun and most likely the reactor (as well as Nebraska's Cooper reactor) will probably survive the flooding without major incident.

    However, there is certainly valid reason for some concern whenever a nuclear reactor and a major flood encounter each other. There is a LOT of highly radioactive waste in Fort Calhoun's fuel pool, for example. While the first loss of power to the fuel pool was not a major incident, an extended loss of power would be.

    We don't expect that to happen, but then again, we monitor these kinds of situations for the unexpected...

    We have put up a new page on the Fort Calhoun flood on our website and will update it when and if events warrant: http://www.nirs.org/...

    Michael Mariotte
    Nuclear Information and Resource Service

    •  Always good to monitor over and above NRC (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby

      and plant operator monitors.

      I'm campaigning to shutdown every gas fired plant in the U.S. now, BTW. Seems at least 20 people have died due to the use of dangerous natural gas. 20 people dead that wouldn't be if we only phased out natural gas. You'all with me?

      Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

      by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 09:09:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  People die from the use (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean, peraspera

        of chainsaws (and a variety of other power and hand tools) too. Gas grills. Automobiles. They die from fires and water and wind and lightning as well. And if nothing else gets you first, people die of disease and/or old age. Not a single one of these ways that people die so contaminates huge tracts of land for hundreds or thousands of years that we call it a "dead zone." None of them come with tons of waste so deadly it has to be isolated and guarded for longer than human civilization has existed. None of them indiscriminately doles out death and disease to mass numbers of people unlucky enough to live downwind. None of them cause two-headed babies with no brains and extra arms and/or legs growing out of odd places.

        And a fatal accident involving power tools, backyard grills, the family gad-about, the average house fire, a slip in the bathtub, a tree falling on your bed or getting struck by lightning on the golf course requires ~7,500 "suicide troops" to march in for mere minutes at a time to take a reading or pick up a chunk of loose fuel at the cost of their lives.

        Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

        by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:04:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Even with Fukushima, fossil has proven far more (0+ / 0-)

          deadly than nuclear, which is my point, sarcastically given, Joieau. That death-by-fossil is generally ignored by antis (not that they support it, of course, it's just ignored except for those that can focus on coal). In reality 30,000 people dead a year from coal trumps anything from nuclear, including the Chernobyl-never-yet-been-repeated accident.

          We have to address the problems with nuclear and not ignore them. This means, in addition, understanding that relative risk of nuclear to fossil and how to address the problems of each. For me, and many, and even a growing number, nuclear is simply the more obvious alternative to fossil than renewables, or, like the renewable folks at ORNL and Sandia, both.

          There is no "indiscriminate" "death and disease" unless a lot more occurred than I'm aware of. Fossil does this regularly.

          The specifics of Fukushima accident have to be addressed with solutions, not fear, not running away. I've proposed specific remedies that should eliminate further occurrences. Others with other advocacy groups have done the same things. Prevent another Fukushima but preventing the causes of it in the first place:
          a/ better tsunami defense, applied the recommendations made to TEPCO and the government for the last 30 years;

          b/ begin a gradual phase out of all Mark I/II GE BWRs by replacing them with Gen III reactors already under construction in Japan and elseware;

          c/ immediate relocation of aux. diesel fuel tanks;

          d/ immediate rebuild of all plant intake structure including hardneing of CWPs and bus work.

          e/ immediate studies to design break waters capable of handling 1,000 year tsunamis for existing plants without them (SONGs, etc).

          f/ start pyropreprocessing for reducing amount and toxicity of long lived SNF.

          g/ crash R&D for existing Gen IV reactors (LFTR, IFR, etc) so the problems can be eliminated altogether.

          That's just me and a few others. This is a political not a technological issue, IMO.

          Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

          by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:31:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, I've gotta tell you (4+ / 0-)

            that since this defense has been launched by the pro-nukes, I've heard anywhere from ~5,000 to several million deaths per year from coal, depending entirely on who's making the defense. With numbers that scattered it's pretty hard to believe any of them know what the hell they're talking about. Sort of like the "Chernobyl killed 56 people" (within 90 days) all the way to several million depending on who's asserting figures nobody ever intended to keep track of in the first place.

            Like I said, everybody dies of something eventually. When I die I expect to leave my beautiful homestead to my grandchildren so they can love it and leave it to their grandchildren. I expect my ashes to be dug into the rose bed just like the ashes of my mother and brother and son were used to balance the acidity of southern red clay. What I absolutely DO NOT intend is to have this place and 50 miles in all directions roped off with skulls and crossbones forever because it's deadly to even hike through here. I tread lightly on the earth. Nukes absolutely DO NOT.

            And finally, let's be honest here. Nobody's going to do anything about any nuclear power installation that is already built and running on its second life extension waiver. Nor is anybody ever going to clean up the horrific messes these things (and their government counterparts) have made of our good nation over the past 50 years. And neither you nor I will live long enough to see anything done about the hundreds of tons of high level fuel waste that still litters these dinosaurs and will for the next 10,000 years.

            You will never get my support for any new nuke of any description until you've dealt with the mess nukes have already left. I'm sure y'all can live with that, because my opposition is never going away.

            Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

            by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:47:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  FUD. Rreally. (0+ / 0-)

              Only Chernobyl has the "roping off". And now this is being challenged. Chernobyl, a unique kind of accident. Fukushima, 10 miles. Lets' address the problem to solve it.

              Between the NIH and the EPA you get a 20,000 to 30,000 deaths per year from coal. This doesn't include those that develop but do not die from it. You seriously want to be the first person on the DK or the anti-nuclear side to question this? In China the estimates are 400,000 deaths exclusive of mining accidents.

              These "things" have not made "horrific messes" unless you'd like to be specific. The ecological footprint is far smaller than wind and solar per unit of energy. They use less resources to do so.

              Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

              by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:09:33 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  This diary is a fail. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Radical def, ornerydad

    The tell is in the second sentence.  Anyone who describes Arnie Gundersen's discussion of the situation as "ravings on the subject" is suspect in my book. :-)

    I love these strawman arguments that are posted here by, surprise surprise, nuclear power shills.

    Maybe if the diarist could actually post some of Mr Gundersen's supposed "ravings" we could see for ourselves what he's referring to.

    Oh, by the way, you might generate a little more credibility IF you spelled either his first or last name correctly! You know, like you actually read his work or actually watched what he has said in the numerous videos out there now.

    No one is outside the circle of the heart

    by kafkananda on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 08:59:29 AM PDT

  •  Thanks for the info, David. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wee Mama, aoeu, jam, bryfry

    And for volunteering to take yet another turn at being called a shill.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 09:11:32 AM PDT

    •  Thanks Bill. Stop by brave new climate (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      billmosby, Wee Mama

      why don't you and explain your change of mind. You know it will get a generally respectful sounding.

      BTW, Dan Y did the research on this for ANS. We have some of the operators writings us.

      Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

      by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 09:19:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think I may already have (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wee Mama

        done that on brave new climate, in response to another comment that I got an email response on. I think it was brave new climate. I'll have to go check.

        I had run into Dan Y's blog a while back, I'll have to drop in on it again.

        Moderation in most things.

        by billmosby on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 09:35:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I live in Omaha (7+ / 0-)

    This is really a concern for me. I have learned that corporations and the government aren't always forth coming with information until the cat is out of the bag.

    I pray that nothing happens.

    •  That's 100% correct. Concern is a good thing, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama, Magster

      not a bad thing. It's also important to examine facts and contextualize the reporting you hear.

      Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

      by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 09:20:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Certainly you can't trust (4+ / 0-)

        any 'authorities' to tell the truth about these things, but I haven't seen any "Conspiracy Theories" about what's happening at Ft. Calhoun. Why did you choose that particular characterization of discussions about what's happening at Ft. Calhoun? And why didn't you lodge this complaint about my diary some weeks ago when Browns Ferry suffered a total loss of offsite power during the big tornados that took out Birmingham and Tuscaloosa? Unit 1 was short a backup EDG and overheated, 2 units are still down last I checked.

        Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

        by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:11:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hi Joieau, I didn't choose it this title, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joieau, bryfry

          Dan Yurman did. Probably because he trusts them more than I do. He, working as an engineer in the fuel cycle for 40 years and me, a socialist agitator of ill-repute..

          I don't think I followed all your diaries (sorry) but this was maybe when Natguy was turning out, what?...2 a day? Things were more hector.

          Anyway, the "Conspiracy theory" appellation is sometimes what it approaches with regards to nuclear. You know, ALL nuclear operators lie, ALL accidents are worse than they appear, ALL reactors are about to explode...that sort of thing...which we do hear here now and again. Dan's aggregating a lot of the theories out there, per each sub-head, as just that, a 'theory' and he seeks to parse them. That's all.

          David

          Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

          by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:21:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  What is a few degrees? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dirtfarmer, Joieau, peraspera
    During the interruption of cooling, temperature of the pool increased a few degrees, but the pool was never in danger of boiling.

    It would be helpful to know how much the temperature increased in the approximately 90 minutes that the power was out.  If it was only two or three degrees, then that would help re-assure people.  Shouldn't the record of the temperatures of the spent-fuel pool be easily available to them?

    •  It would be. Apparently the water in 4 Unit (0+ / 0-)

      temporary spent fuel pond never boiled off. I haven't read the speculative reports on why this was.

      Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

      by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:32:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  More of the same old jive... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joieau, ornerydad

    I detect high levels of radioactive subjectivity, here...

    500

    PhotobucketPhotobucket
    Photobucket

    Assure that all is well, "nothing will go wrong", a disaster is "impossible", and anyone who expresses any concern has to be an alarmist nut case, etc. etc. etc.

    I have not seen any diaries or comments here making ANY false claims about the situation on the river.  

    It has merely been pointed out that rising flood waters could conceivably pose a problem, and that if a dam breaks, the result could be catastrophic.

    The approach of this diary is merely seeking to slander and attack anyone who expresses the slightest concern about the dangers of nuclear power proliferation, especially under the present lax enforcement of an insufficient regulatory regime.

    If nuke supporters were really so freakin' absolutely confident of their line, they wouldn't feel so compelled to resort to such unprincipled advocacy.

    Learn2

    Industry and captive gov't agencies (defunded, under-staffed, and rife with embedded politically appointed industry hacks) have consistently lied their asses off about nukes, just like they have consistently done over every other environmental and health issues raised about virtually any other technology, product or practice, from lead paint to tobacco to pesticides and herbicides, to global climate change, etc. etc. etc.

    PhotobucketPhotobucket

    The Chamber of Commerce, and anyone who parrots their line is simply not to be trusted, about ANYTHING...

    Indeed, the more subjective and adamant they get, the stronger the indication is, that there are very serious problems with their "analysis", whatever the subject may be.

    Face it, bubba, the DFH have been right all along, about EVERYTHING...and the Chamber of Commerce and all their weaseling jive ass hacks will soon be under arrest for crimes against humanity, when real democracy prevails.

    Bring the Better Democrats!

    All Out for 2012!

    500

    Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

    by Radical def on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 10:39:04 AM PDT

    •  Don't omit asbestos. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim P

      Yet another 'product' that has caused untold suffering and death through all the years since they put it into just about everything KNOWING it caused cancer.

      Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

      by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:07:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Off topic. (0+ / 0-)

        Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

        by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:13:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It was a reply to (0+ / 0-)

          def's list. Not to this diary.

          Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

          by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:19:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's not off topic...it's Chamber of Commerce line (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ornerydad, Joieau, Jim P

          about ANYTHING, and EVERYTHING, and the fact that the closer an advocate emulates that line and style, the more suspect they must be considered to be, regardless of the topic.

          When the line resorts to subjective, unprincipled attack, adhominem, diversionary misrepresentation, and outright lies...it just cannot be trusted, no matter how "true" some elements of the "argument" may seem to be.

          Photobucket

          I defy any nuke advocate to bring one freakin' actual material example of Greenpeace, or Union of Concerned Scientists, or the broader environmental movement, or those advocating for public/worker health and safety protections, let alone for rational and just economic priorities and practices, EVER bringing ANYTHING even CLOSE to such outrageous lies, corruption, absolutely false and slanderous vilification of critics, deliberate hiding of relevant information, retaliation against whistleblowers, etc, etc, as the Chamber of Commerce and it's clients have so typically, consistently, historically deployed, on EVERYTHING they address.

          Show me even ONE freakin' example of environmentalists erroneously, let alone DELIBERATELY sickening, maiming, or killing, ANYONE, let alone hundreds, thousands, and even millions of people, at home and abroad, for their "own" profit, against the public interest.

          Nobody is perfect, but I know whom I trust when it comes to information, and it's NOT the Chamber of Commerce, or anyone they represent, or who emulates their heinous practice.

          Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle. Information is the ultimate key.

          by Radical def on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 01:03:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Being in a "giving mood" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joieau, peraspera

     I'll buy the "we are afraid of a helicopter accident".  But at the same time, if there is no air flight over the plant, then isn't that helping rather hindering the CTer's.  
       The video that was posted yesterday:  wasn't that from a boat?  The reporter was using free waterways, so I am unclear when the "no fly zone" was implemented.  FTR: it only showed water up to an unidentified building, that in my layman's eyes didn't appear to be a reactor - and I don't know what a pod storage pool looks like (other than Japan's pictures)

       Yes, I listened to the interview and the discussion was not an alarmist message.  So, while I guess I can see why a diarist would post someone's POV as a "what those concerned with potential Nuclear Accidents here in the US are up against", it may have been better to express that clearly.  

    •  Just for future reference, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Magster, peraspera

      the spent fuel pools at PWRs (of which Ft. Calhoun is one) are in those basic outbuildings, these attached to the containment via big equipment hatch so they can get it from the reactor to the pool. Which is in-ground.

      This re-post states that the reactor has been down for refueling, but said nothing about possible maintenance associated with the outage. So how much of the core is in the fuel pool? How many elements were they replacing, and are THOSE in the fuel pool? Remember that Fukushima #4 was down for refueling/maintenance, and its entire core is in that fuel pool.

      So I think these are pertinent questions since the in-ground fuel pool is in danger from rising water. Which, if it gets in, will certainly make a mess.

      Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

      by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:14:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'll write and find out. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Magster, Joieau, bryfry

        PWRs refuel 1/3 of their rods every 18 to 24 months. But it's a pertinent question.

        Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

        by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:16:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Also...I'm not sure water IN the pools is a (0+ / 0-)

          problem. The problem is water NOT in the pools when decay heat can accumulate, which is the case with a recently removed core (or even section there of).

          There was some commentary about water "washing away the core"....? They way like 20 tons.

          Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

          by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:20:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wouldn't water flooding in mean ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau

            water flooding out and back into the Missouri? Perhaps not as bad as a boiled off fuel pool, but still not good.

            No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

            by Magster on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:31:03 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not to mention the fact (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Magster

              that the river is carrying a considerable load of silt and muck in its flood, which if it gets into the building will settle onto and into the spent fuel pool. Plus mix with that water and flow on out when it recedes. Not a meltdown, but definitely a mess.

              Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

              by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:17:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Yo, they weigh 4 times (0+ / 0-)

            that much. At TMI-2 the "Void at the Center of the Core" represented 20 tons of fuel, cladding, rods and fittings. That's not what melted, it's just the part that vaporized.

            Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

            by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:46:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, David. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Magster

          I'll stay tuned for any reply you get.

          Back in the day (which was half a lifetime ago), spent fuel pools were not an issue of any consideration or concern at all. I don't even know if TMI-2 had one, since it was brand new. I never saw it, and I was working in one of those outbuildings. 30+ years later, they are most definitely an issue. NRC decided that yes, they're dangerous in certain events, but it would cost too much to do anything about it so nothing was done. And that was AFTER 9-11, when we were told our nukes were entirely safe from terrorists in hijacked jetliners because of our so-sturdy domes.

          Now we know that more than 30 of our nukes don't have sturdy domes at all, but laughable Home Depot style quickie buildings that blow up rather spectacularly in certain types of events that don't involve hijacked airliners. PWR spent fuel pools are no sturdier, also subject to being opened to the atmosphere by stealth and might (and entirely foreseeable 'accidents').

          Something really must be done about this. But as always, if the industry complains that it'll cost too much, nothing the NRC "advises" will be done.

          Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

          by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:28:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Joieau...do you have a listing of the study (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Joieau

            conducted on them? I've never seen it. I thought they all passed with flying colors? No?

            David

            Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

            by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 12:09:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Will go look, right now (0+ / 0-)

              because I didn't archive it. BRB...

              Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

              by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 03:55:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Okay, here y'go. (0+ / 0-)

              I had Generic Issues bookmarked, but what I was really looking for was the Beyond Design Basis analysis. Just an exercise, since nobody paid any attention and the conclusion was it cost too much to deal with. Just as the industry wanted, of course.

              Things nuclear have always been thus. So of the list of Kemeny and Rogovin recommendations after TMI-2, most were never heeded. Most they did was install drive mechanisms on those "gravity feed" control rods because gravity doesn't always work as you want it to. The strongest recommendation - that any new plants NOT be sited anywhere within a hundred miles of population centers - is still being ignored with impunity to this very day.

              Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

              by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:11:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  What I got was only this short note: (0+ / 0-)
            "About one third of the core gets pulled and replaced during an outage.  At Ft. Calhoun I am told the fuel outage is over and that they are waiting to re-start once the flood levels recede."

            which suggests it is not even in water right now.

            Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

            by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 12:44:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  But in the reactor, n'est ce pas? (0+ / 0-)

              And if the entire core isn't in the spent fuel pool, then there's certainly water in the reactor where the new and older fuel is. So it's just the third that was replaced that's in the fuel pool. That's good to know...

              Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

              by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 03:56:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  thanks, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joieau

        I do try and keep it civil (smile).

        I did a quick search and saw a recent picture of the plant and it is surrounded with water.  The picture wasn't clear enough to see all the sand bags, etc. and my PC is acting up, sorry!

        •  One of the notes the operators sent out (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joieau

          to one us was basically the following:

          "we're ready. We've laid in supplies, doubled the amount of diesel, already in air tight tanks; extra aux generation on top of what we already had; wiring checked; everything is ready if we lose grid power."

          David

          Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

          by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 12:46:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Great! (0+ / 0-)

            I honestly expect them to have battened all the hatches for this, they had plenty of warning and the plant is down. What's in the reactor will be fine, they just may have to do a lot of cleaning out of mud when the water recedes. It's that mud in the spent fuel pool that concerned me, and that's presuming that since the fire they've re-wired everything so as NOT to lose circulation and offsite power.

            I had a little business I tried to open in a tourist trap some years ago, lots of computer equipment and laser printers. We put a new roof on the little building and refinished the interior, put in the equipment and prepared for tourists. Then Hurricane Opal came all the way into the mountains and washed most of a mountainside into the river, but first it came right down Main Street. And made a hard left-hand turn through the little shop we'd leased. Fortunately it had already left the house-size boulders and entire trees behind in the highway, but the mud and muck it left in the shop as it headed out the back to the river was chest-high. Trashed all that leased equipment, we had a hell of a time getting out of that one. Never opened, decided God didn't want us to do retail...

            Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

            by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:24:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  figure...even if the company are dilitantish (0+ / 0-)

              liars, after Fukushima, the actual operators are NOT going to take any chances.

              Tornado discussion was interesting. I have to wonder how this effects everything.

              Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

              by davidwalters on Sat Jun 18, 2011 at 06:53:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I think it's funny... (0+ / 0-)

      they are worrying about conspiracy theories when I found this news on Youtube in the first place, then saw local reports, and everyone I've told about it hasn't heard a damn thing about it.

      How about this... how about this is actual news with actual information.

      ... or I'll leave forever and never come back (and you'll be sorry).

      by GBCW on Sun Jun 19, 2011 at 06:38:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It was pretty clear that HawaiiNewsDaily (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rja, peraspera, Joieau

    got this wrong when their declaration  that Ft. Calhoun was at Level 4 was unlinked.

    But Adept's diary on Ft. Calhoun was still very well done insofar as bringing in information on what's going on in the dams upstream.  I don't think anyone here is way worried about Ft. Calhoun if the flooding doesn't get worse, but that's kind of a dicey "if".

    No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

    by Magster on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 11:09:30 AM PDT

  •  In ansewr to my Arnie Gundersen snark: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joieau, bryfry

    Go here: http://yesvy.blogspot.com/...

    Lots' of quotes from him during the crisis. The video provided basically make him look foolish.

    Sorry I noted this in the first place, however.

    Dr. Isaac Asimov: "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny ...'"

    by davidwalters on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 12:49:41 PM PDT

    •  Arnie knows whereof (0+ / 0-)

      he speaks, I think it's a shame y'all ostracize any engineers who express issues from your little club. Out here in the civilian world, we're as suspicious of your little club as the actual physicists who don't hang much with nukes. Insular. That won't make you popular, you know.

      Now, more than ever, we need the Jedi.

      by Joieau on Thu Jun 16, 2011 at 04:42:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Gundersen's credentials are dicey. (0+ / 0-)

        Better to get your information from actual nuclear engineers who have dealt with power plant reactors--Gundersen has not.

        He makes money fear-mongering.

        Amory Lovins: "Coal can fill the real gaps in our fuel economy....." IPCC: Anthropogenic greenhouse gases will cause extinction of up to 70% of species by 2050.

        by Plan9 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 09:40:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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