In Thursday's diary about Antisemitism I made a post that some of the supporters of Israel are trying to redefine and expand the definition of Antisemitism to include the Boycott, Disinvestment and Sanctions Campaign similar to the one targeting South Africa in the 1980s, as well as any advocacy for a bi-national state as a solution to the conflict similar to the one that has emerged in South Africa, as being Antisemitic.
A reply to that comment by volleyboy .
Here are the first four comments in that exchange:
They also try to conflate BDS w antisemitism (3+ / 0-)
and advocating a single bi-national state as a solution to the conflict as antisemitism.
In both of these cases the charge of antisemitism is meant to stigmatize these topics as a racist ones, in order to silence any further discussion.
Plutocracy too long tolerated leaves democracy on the auction block, subject to the highest bidder ~ Bill Moyers
by Lefty Coaster on Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 11:52:20 PM PDT
No we are not "trying to conflate it"... BDS is (13+ / 0-)
Recommended by: Mets102, Corwin Weber, fizziks, hikerbiker, JayinPortland, 2dimeshift, leftynyc, mattwb, MBNYC, zemblan, Paul in Berkeley, JNEREBEL, alisonc
anti-Semitic. It only targets Jews in Israel. No one else. Guess what that is????
And Lefty you would be wrong. No one wants to silence your crusade to deny the Jews their legitimate right to self determination while pushing for just that right for Palestinians. I think you should post as often as possible. I really do.
Lefty the comments cited are anti-Semitic. Just because some of your friends made them doesn't make that less so. They are. But you are so blinded by your hatred and cartoon like view of the Israeli Government and PM Netanyahu that you blind yourself to their hate.
DK4: For those times when pissing in the hummus isn't enough
by volleyboy1 on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 12:07:20 AM PDT
Sez you (5+ / 0-)
You're use the charge that BDS is antisemitism as a transparent tactic to shut down discussion. Period.
In an ideal situation two states would be far preferable yes. But your grasping at straws that have receded into history. Israeli governments have worked very hard over the last 15 years to make any two state solution highly unlikely to ever become a reality. I prefer to try and deal with the real world. But you want us to think that the last 15 years should make no difference.
Trying to twist what a bi-national state could mean in the most inflammatory terms possible. Your baseless charge of hatred on my part makes my point for me and should be rewarded with H/Rs. Thank you.
By overusing the charge of antisemitism you're helping to devalue it, and dilute its meaning. But you don't seem to care about that.
I agree the comments cited in the letter are antisemitic, but frankly coming from Mets102 it strikes me as the pot calling the kettle black.
Plutocracy too long tolerated leaves democracy on the auction block, subject to the highest bidder ~ Bill Moyers
by Lefty Coaster on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 01:35:43 AM PDT
OK the, what tactics for trying to influence (3+ / 0-)
Israeli policy are on the "approved" list, since you claim to be its keeper?
This is maddening. Do you think that Palestinians should get to be keepers of the list of what is anti-Palestinian bigotry? Should they decide if you get banned?
I am happy to be part of a long tradition in Jewish culture -- long, although unfortunately not always dominant -- that rejects and opposes sophistry.
To protect the Latino "community of interest" in redistricting Orange County, Santa Ana, eastern Garon Thu Jun 23, 2011 at 11:52:20 PM PDTden Grove, and central Anaheim must be in the same legislative districts.
by Seneca Doane on Fri Jun 24, 2011 at 04:28:55 AM PDT
I have to agree with Seneca Doane merely being being adamantly opposed to an idea shouldn't be enough to raise it to the level of Antisemitism.
As you might imagine I find this claim that I am "blinded by" my "hatred" very offensive, yet no one dared to hide rate this viscous claim in the face of such scorched earth tactics.
The suggested guidelines set out specific and limited set of parameters for what constitutes Antisemitism. Yet all who answer the poll yes also want to be able to exceed those parameters whenever they want to level a charge of Antisemitism at things outside of those parameters.
Imagine if the supporters of Apartheid South Africa had been successful in stigmatizing the boycott of Apartheid South Africa as anti White racism? Would the South Africa's transition to a multi-racial democracy have been set back years, or prevented altogether?
I want to be absolutely clear. I find Antisemitism abhorrent. I have hide-rated numerous Antisemitic comments. These kind of comments should absolutely not be tolerated here on Daily Kos.
Thursday's diary on Antisemitism made this demand:
What we refuse to accept is administrative inaction when antisemitism occurs.”
As you can see from the comment above and hundreds more with similar canards attributing hatred and racism to those critics, that we already face a fairly hostile environment here on Daily Kos.
Two states has become a pipe dream
As I stated above my first preference (as most people's first preference) was for two states. But that option had been made exceedingly difficult to achieve with expansion of settlements and new illegal outposts that are popping up like mushrooms after a fall rain. In Israeli politics the national religious settlers are the tail that wags the Israeli dog. All the settlements and illegal outposts are most likely permanent because the Israeli political establishment lacks the will or the desire to take on the settlers, and because the IDF probably lacks the cohesion to remove settlers unwilling to relocate by force.
Another big reason I am very discouraged by the diminishing prospects for a two state solution is polls show Israelis will continue to move to the Right politically for the foreseeable future.
Poll: Young Israelis moving much farther to the right politically
The study found that 60 percent of Jewish teenagers in Israel, between 15 and 18 years old, prefer “strong” leaders to the rule of law, while 70 percent say that in cases where state security and democratic values conflict, security should come first. A similar picture emerges in the 21 to 24 age group.
This means that its very likely that future Israeli governments will be to make Netanyahu's hard line look moderate by comparison.
This stark ethnic divisions this map delineates shows a very unlikely basis for two viable states:
Map pdf
As a reality based community I feel we shouldn't keep clinging to an unachievable goal, however painful that letting go of that long cherished goal may be to us personally.
My hope is that progress can be achieved through peaceful means like mass protests and sending complacent Israelis a wake up call with the B.D.S. Campaign. Today we see that weekly mass protests have accomplished what even the Israeli Supreme Court was unable to achieve in four years. The removal of a small section of the Annexation Wall near Bil’in. Those protests were a public relations disaster for the IDF and the Israeli government. By complying with the courts ruling occupation authorities are trying to make their PR nightmare go away, but lets hope that the tactic of mass protests to acheive more just outcomes will spread and grow in size until the occupation as usual becomes intolerable.
Israeli army takes down section of West Bank barrier
The removal of the barrier came four years after the Israeli Supreme Court ruled on a petition by villagers that the route of the fence did not serve security needs, but cut through village farmland for purposes of expanding the adjacent Israeli settlement of Modi’in Ilit, a fast-growing town of ultra-Orthodox Jews. The court ordered the barrier torn down and rebuilt closer to the settlement.
The IDF would of kept on dragging it feet about complying with the court's ruling had it not been for the weekly protests that drew worldwide attention to the injustices the Annexation Wall impose on Israel's powerless Palestinian subjects living in the West Bank.
My purpose in writing this diary is not try to start another contest to see which side has the most sump trucks to hose the other side down with liquid excrement, but to try to bring the community's attention this attempt to expand the definition of what constitutes true antisemitism, in order to try to get a sense of where the larger community stands on what can legitimately be labeled as antisemitic.
I'd like readers to share their views, not in the comments (but if you want to clarify your views in a comment please do, and and please do so in a mutually respectful way), but in a poll since so many here are understandably reluctant to comment on an issue where emotions are running so high, and risk being labeled as a hater or worse.
I'll conclude with an excerpt from a comment by Deoliver47 in Thursday's diary on Antisemitism stating her reasons for not signing on to the letter:
We will probably never be free of schisms and isms within the Democratic Party in my lifetime. Such is the nature of an unruly Big Tent. We don’t have the same options that the current right-wing lock step Republicans do. It is our greatest strength, and also our flaw.
link
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Update: I'd like to call attention to this comment by MBNYC downthread:
But if my interpretation is correct, I question how advocacy that is both bigoted and possibly illegal can be allowed on a site whose mission is still to elect Democrats.
This is no straw man.