Skip to main content

Looks like Brownback in Kansas has called in every hard-core marriage-is-forever-but-only-for-heteros fanatic to come visit and help him put formulate a real winner of a plan.
Topeka Capital Journal:

This foursome was among 20 people who met behind closed doors in Topeka to share marriage program ideas with Brownback and executives at the Kansas Department of Social and Rehabilitation Services. During the April encounter, the governor urged invitees to think in terms of "Hail Mary" approaches to boosting marriage rates and slashing divorce rates in Kansas.

What kind of hail marys?


Blankenhorn, of the Institute for American Values, raised eyebrows in a California federal court three years ago while offering testimony on same-sex marriage. He said polygamy didn't violate the "rule of two people."

"Even in instances of a man engaging in polygamous marriage, each marriage is separate," Blankenhorn said.

Why do I think that won't cut both ways?

Marrying for money

Wade Horn, who redefined President George W. Bush's faith-based initiatives in the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, preached a gospel that encouraged poor women to marry their way out of poverty.

Pair this polygamy, and I think we're done with prostitution in our lifetime. And they said it couldn't be done

Marriage Exams

Clergy members in each Kansas county should sign and enforce a "community marriage policy" to prohibit church weddings unless the couple completed a 200-item, premarital inventory and met several times with a mentor couple trained by the church, McManus said.

Number 27 makes clear birth control makes popes cry and the devil eat a kitten. All couples need to hit it out of the park and into the crib on night one.

Divorce only if you get smacked around or screwed around on, and only if you could really prove it

In his follow-up letter to Brownback obtained by The Topeka Capital-Journal, McManus said Kansas should prohibit no-fault divorce unless there was proof of physical abuse or adultery.

Private eyes everywhere just figured out where Kansas actually was

And only if you are willing to give up everything you have

A Kansas law ought to be passed, he said, allowing judges to select a "responsible spouse," which would always be the person opposed to divorce. The statute would allow the responsible adult to receive up to 66 percent of child visitation and 100 percent of family assets in the divorce.

So remember conservative christian men, don't lay a finger on 'em. Just verbally abuse, browbeat, ignore their needs and control them till you get the car, the house, and the kids. 'Cause it's their fault they want a divorce.

And make sure you get an unhappily divorced man to head up the program.
From the Kansas Health Institute

In January, Siedlecki told members of the Mental Health Coalition of Kansas that his divorce was due to his wife tiring of the uncertainty and frequent moves that accompanied public service.

“It’s not like I’m ‘holier than thou, I’m on the other side,’" he told coalition members. "I’ve seen the suffering. I have two daughters. It bothers me every day. I hope that someday I can talk to God and ask ‘Why?’”

Maybe she saw the writing on the wall, and realized "responsible spouse" meant something different than he did

I come from Kansas, and I swear that place gets crazier the longer I am away. Just when you beat back the humans-riding-dinosaurs crowd, up pops this mob. I wish the ghost of William Allen White would sweep through Topeka and carry off Brownback to 17th Century Boston. He wouldn't last til the harvest, and would look ridiculous in that black hat. Everyone in Rhode Island would laugh at him while he was persecuted by the Puritans for not being religious enough.

The sad thing is the majority of Kansas voters wanted this fool. What do they want to be, Utah?

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Jeebus (literally) (11+ / 0-)

    Ok -- apparently none of these assholes know the "Hail Mary," and if you will pardon me, I will type it:

    Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art though among women and blessed
    is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

    Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners,
    now and at the hour of hour death, Amen.

    Anyone see marriage in the Hail Mary????  I'm Catholic and was taught that marriage had zero to do with Jesus and pregnancy had zero to do with Joseph.

    We will never rid ourselves of these hypocrites and ignorami.

    " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

    by gchaucer2 on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 02:46:05 PM PDT

  •  They want their own scarlet letter? (5+ / 0-)

    Maybe a red "K" ... for both Kansas and teh Krazy.

  •  When I read stuff like this I am convinced (8+ / 0-)

    that it's the straight folks that are the perverts.

    No offense to my straight sisters and brothers, but wow. I know some crazy gay people, but these guys take the cake.

  •  Now I try really hard not to bash (10+ / 0-)

    whole states, but it is increasingly more difficult not to ask "What The Fuck Is The Matter With Kansas"?

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:06:26 PM PDT

    •  I lived in Texas as a teenager (7+ / 0-)

      and young adult. I don't recognize it any more. I'll bet Kansans probably feel the same way about their state.

      At least the mayor of Houston is a lesbian. At least Texas has that going for it.

      It's a shame that some of these states have become completely unhinged. My own state of Maine has been overrun by the Tea Party. Maine for heaven's sake!

      •  There is something to be said... (6+ / 0-)

        ...about the idea that progressives and forward-thinkers get more and more fed up with the stifiling neanderthal backasswardness of deep red states and deep red areas that more and more of them move away, leaving only aging old cranks voting in crazy young cranks left. I think this explains states like Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Alabama, etc. I have an aunt who was from Oklahoma and she said that even though it was still fundie-wingutty and rightist way back when, there was a healthy lefty progressive subculture in places like Tulsa. No more, apparently. :(

        That's why whenever someone says "Why don't all the progressives just leave Texas and move to California or Massachusetts?" I say, "NO! We NEED the remaining ones to stay there and fight! It's bad enough that each of these states get two senators that embarass the United States of America on the international stage time and time again!"

    •  look up "dominionism." (0+ / 0-)

      Also look up "New Apostolic Reformation" and keep in mind that all of the major current Republican candidates have had to pass muster with these nuts.  

      That infestation is nationwide and very much behind-the-scenes and quiet about it, except when they issue dog-whistles to their followers.  

  •  College education. (5+ / 0-)

    College-educated people have lower divorce rates than the population as a whole, by quite a bit.

    Not sure to what degree correlation is causation and to what degree we need to control for other variables, but it's not like it would be a harmful experiment to make education more accessible to more people.

  • he goes again (11+ / 0-)

    Where are the jobs, Brownback?  Unemployment in my county is close to 10%, we have a staggering number of children living in poverty, and he's screwing around with this shit?

    I guess it's hard work depriving small Kansas communities of their arts centers and women's health clinics, and now he's on another one of his insane ideological tangents while people in his state suffer.

    Fuck you, asshole!  If anyone in this country wants to know what it's like to live in a theocratic dictatorship come to Kansas.  This fucker is dangerous.

    you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

    by Dem Beans on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:17:21 PM PDT

  •  I'd like to be polygamous and marry for money (5+ / 0-)

    I'm thinking four, maybe five very very wealthy wives. Yep, that's my retirement plan alright. I don't even mind if they have the odd cabana boy or swarthy European lover on the side, provided my hobby of laying on a Caribbean beach with a drink in my hand isn't interrupted until my bones have been bleached completely white in the sun.

    Ahh, marriage. Thanks Sam!

    •  That's not how it works.... (0+ / 0-)

      The menfolk provide for their multiple wives while we pop out the kids and be submissive (Although I will accept the cabana boy and knowing the Repubs, so will he).

      "Someone just turned the lights on in the bar and the sexiest state doesn't look so pretty anymore" CA Treasurer Bill Lockyer on Texas budget mess

      by CaliSista on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 08:38:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Awww.. damn (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        While the submissive part might be fun every so often, I could do without the rest.

        Are you sure an exception couldn't be made? I mean, I AM "respecting" some form of sanctity of marriage and that's got to count for something, right?

  •  i remember it well...just before my wedding, i (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    the mom in the middle

    started on the

    200-item, premarital inventory

    but once i threw out my inflatable ex-girlfriend, i just skipped the rest of the list and i was good to go

    I gotta dance to keep from cryin'

    by memofromturner on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:29:36 PM PDT

  •  Wow, that's some serious crazy. (10+ / 0-)

    I have to say, though, that my favorite is that quote about how polygamy doesn't violate their precious one-man/one-woman marriage rule.

    Um, yeah. Yeah it does. That's kind of exactly what the definition is.


    •  I wonder what Brownback's good friend... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mayim, eztempo, Cassandra Waites, G2geek

      ...Rick "Man on Dog" Santorum would say about that?

      But not really:

      We have laws in states, like the one at the Supreme Court right now, that has sodomy laws and they were there for a purpose. Because, again, I would argue, they undermine the basic tenets of our society and the family. And if the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. Does that undermine the fabric of our society? I would argue yes, it does. It all comes from, I would argue, this right to privacy that doesn't exist in my opinion in the United States Constitution, this right that was created, it was created in Griswold — Griswold was the contraceptive case — and abortion. And now we're just extending it out. And the further you extend it out, the more you — this freedom actually intervenes and affects the family. You say, well, it's my individual freedom. Yes, but it destroys the basic unit of our society because it condones behavior that's antithetical to strong healthy families. Whether it's polygamy, whether it's adultery, where it's sodomy, all of those things, are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family.

      And yes, that is the interview from which Santorum gets his nickname.

      Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

      by wiscmass on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:45:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Re: this... (15+ / 0-)
    In his follow-up letter to Brownback obtained by The Topeka Capital-Journal, McManus said Kansas should prohibit no-fault divorce unless there was proof of physical abuse or adultery.'s telling that physical abuse and adultery fall into the "no-fault" category to these people. As far as I'm concerned, if there's physical abuse or adultery, someone is at fault.

    Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

    by wiscmass on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:36:19 PM PDT

    •  Excellent point n/t (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wiscmass, mayim, eztempo

      "When you enter the ocean, you enter the food chain, and not necessarily at the top." - Cousteau

      by Thucydides Junior on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:43:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think that is the definition... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wiscmass, eztempo, Cassandra Waites

      of 'no fault' divorce.  Divorce used to be only granted in the case of adultery or abuse.  A 'fault' was determined.  'No Fault' is a term that means the two parties can agree on divorce (or even one party can petition divorce) without determining what the 'fault' is.  Once again, these people don't understand the law or history.

      [F]undamentalists pretty much fall under the same banner ie. "we cant control our junk" - LaFeminista

      by RichM on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:56:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's exactly my point (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RichM, Cassandra Waites

        Aside from all the other ways their position is just plain stupid, they're saying that neither physical abuse nor adultery establishes fault, because those are the only two reasons they'd allow for a divorce outside of those that establish fault.

        So if your husband beats the shit out of you on a regular basis and screws around, you can get a divorce but you can't claim he's at fault.

        And this is what they claim passes for morality.

        Do you suppose Republican politicians hate people who work for a living because they've never done it themselves?

        by wiscmass on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 04:26:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It makes perfect sense (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wiscmass, Cassandra Waites

      It is no-fault when a good conservative man abuses his wife or is unfaithful. Those indiscretions should not be held against them if they want to stay married. The Hail Mary gambit is a great way to have the judiciary side with them as the "responsible spouse" if they want to remain married to someone they had abused or been unfaithful to. The conservative mind is a marvel to behold.

      Be radical in your compassion.

      by DWG on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 04:21:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Some day we will be off this yellow brick road (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dem Beans, terabthia2, eztempo, xanthippe2

    I guess our Jayhawk soul was sold down the river. Sighs a Kansas voter.

  •  Unintended consequences? (5+ / 0-)

    Many people I know who have been through one divorce (which is most of us) don't ever want to go through another. Solution: Don't get married, just live together.

    The harder you make divorce, the more likely you encourage people to just live their lives without getting the state involved in any ceremony.

    If we didn't have health insurance based on being a family member of someone with an employer-provided plan, I think marriage as a state-sanctioned status would disappear instead of being extended to same-sex couples.

    •  Nah. Lots of people enjoy/prefer being married. (0+ / 0-)

      I'm one of those divorced folks.  Hated - and I mean passionately hated - being married the first time.  Was then single for 15 years.  No one thought I'd ever marry again.  Now I've been married for 10 years and love it.  I was terrified, but knew I wanted to be able to plan for an entire lifetime together.  Who the other person is can make quite a difference.  

      And since others marry 5, 6. 7 times when they're not doing it for the insurance, I doubt that would have much of any impact on marriage rates.

      "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

      by gustynpip on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 04:01:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So the ridiculous wingnut solution... (0+ / 0-) "More Marriages!!". (think "More Cowbell!!") Just MARRY, dammit!! And DON'T DIVORCE, dammit!! Yes, that's it! Forget underlying reasons for why marriages fall apart: financial strain, economic hopelessness, failed promises, no job opportunities. No, let's punish people more!! It's what God wants, right??? They want marriage for the sake of marriage and screw everything else.

    These frauds remind me of people who say that the key to Family Values(TM) is more kids. Because there's already seven billion people on the planet...what difference is one more going to make? Or two, or three, or four, or five... Who cares if their environment will go to shit? Who cares about worrying about whether they'll have enough food, water or shelter??? More is better!!!


  •  I don't think... (5+ / 0-)

    the 'questionnaire' idea is bad, per se.  I don't advocate something like that from a religious point of view, but I think asking questions like 'how is money going to be managed' and 'do you want children' are good questions.  Not a 'test', but a conversation.  It's amazing how many people get married and never talk about those things.

    [F]undamentalists pretty much fall under the same banner ie. "we cant control our junk" - LaFeminista

    by RichM on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 03:54:26 PM PDT

  •  What's a judge to do (0+ / 0-)

    when both people in a marriage are responsible? What would he do if neither party was responsible? Seems to me there wouldn't be very many marriages within the responsible group, since they'd all have to select an irresponsible partner. Frankly, I'd rather be single in that case. As for the rest of it, it's no one's business what I and my partner do in the privacy of our bedroom, nor is it my business what anyone else does in the privacy of their bedrooms, as long as any activity is between two consenting adults.
    I suspect that college-educated people stay married at a higher rate because they generally have higher incomes, which relieves a major contributor of stress on any marriage - financial stability.

  •  And what about other states? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drmah, Cassandra Waites

    Even if Sam Brownback signs a bunch of draconian laws making it extremely difficult to get a divorce in Kansas, what's to stop one or the other unhappy members of the married couple from filing for divorce in another state with more lenient laws?  The state of Kansas would be compelled to recognize the divorce anyway, so it wouldn't work.

  •  Typical big government Republicans. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vita Brevis

    This is typical of the Republican Party, the full power of the state devoted to Social Engineering.

    Polygamy is not one man, one woman, it is one man, multiple women. That's the most ludicrous one.

    Marrying their way out of poverty won't work. First of all, are the men going to agree to this? What about poor men, should they be expected to marry money? And when marriages do break up, women often wind up poorer than ever.

    Marriage exams are the only idea here that isn't awful. People probably would be better off if they delayed marriage and thought about it more. Some churches do just that. But that is the church's business, not the state's.

    Prohibiting divorce unless there is physical abuse or adultery would use state power to force people to remain married, but would just result in more and more terrible marriages.

    For the state to choose one person in a marriage to be the "responsible adult" literally infantilises the other person. These people are adult citizens, and the state must treat them as such.

    Then there's the hypocrisy of divorced people condemning others for getting divorced, because it is totally different when they do it.

    If they really want to lower divorce rates, try policies that get people better pay. Money problems are one of the biggest stresses in relationships, and pay has been flat for a long time. Another thing is to avoid unrealistic expectations of marriage.

    The wolfpack eats venison. The lone wolf eats mice.

    by A Citizen on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 04:23:17 PM PDT

  •  The state of Kansas is an embarrassment (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Diana in NoVa, Dem Beans

    Lived here my entire life, and yes, it is getting worse. I don't know what it is with right-wingers, but they just keep getting crazier and crazier. Most of them don't even recognize the cognitive dissonance necessary to support this kind of government intrusion into the most personal aspects of a person's life while also screaming about big government (which, BTW, has benefited Kansas and Kansans beyond description).

    Something people from outside Kansas, and particularly outside rural Kansas, need to realize is that these people know they are being mocked, they know that they are laughingstocks, they know that tons of people say they belong in the 19th Century, yet all this ridicule does is harden their attitudes about this kind of shit. Even though many of them are divorced, or have family members who are divorced, or have friends who are divorced. That is why when I say they are crazy, I mean it.

    I truly believe that being a right-winger is a form of mental illness. That the people of this state would elect - by a huge margin - Sam fucking Brownback, literally one of the dumbest men to ever serve in the US Senate, as governor, and then stand by, and in some cases (especially among Kansas' """"moderate"""" Republicans who voted for this clown) act surprised that Brownback and his wingnuts in the Statehouse have focused on nothing but social issues should tell you everything you need to know about the average KS voter. Most of the people here are dumb as hammers, and twice as rigid. They will never - never - change, no matter how badly they themselves are harmed by right-wing psycho-government. Because, again, they are (imo) mentally ill. And to reiterate to people not from around here, it's only going to get worse.

    This state is such an embarrassment.

    •  Wonder what JoCo 'moderate' Republicans (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      are thinking about their new boy king...

      I live in a rural community and I'm not sure they're even aware enough to know that they're laughed at.  Most are too strung out on meth to realize much (heartland values!).

      you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

      by Dem Beans on Wed Jul 06, 2011 at 08:00:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Click here for the mobile view of the site