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As we declare President Obama's political suicide and holler about who to primary the President with over speculative reports, everyone seems to be missing one thing: Boehner is the one in trouble (politically).  

See, one reason why the debt negotiations have become so complicated, so bizarro-world impossible, is not principally due to President Obama's weak negotiating stance, as some claim. (Though it has not been stellar.) Rather, it's because John Boehner has become held hostage by a Tea Party with which he doesn't ideologically agree, and any concession by Boehner in negotiations – ANY – will spell his political demise.

Oh, and one thing is certain: any deal with the White House will contain a compromise. Which will mean one thing: his ultimate political doom.

Do I feel sorry for him? For getting in bed with a Tea Party that will likely run him out of office?

Not in the slightest.

E.J. Dionne, Jr. seems to feel similarly about this. He writes:

If Boehner can’t assemble a majority with Republicans, he will have to negotiate with House Democrats...But concessions to Democrats will further alienate conservatives in Boehner’s own party.

Boehner could thus either court a rebellion against his leadership or push the country toward default on its debt.

I’d actually feel bad for Boehner — an old-fashioned sort who’d normally reach for a deal — if he and his party had not shamelessly stoked the Tea Party to win power. The GOP is now reaping the whirlwind, and Boehner may be forced to choose between his country and his job.

Between his country and his job.

Now, lest one be mistaken, this diary is not a support of the way the White House has handled negotiations with the GOP on this. However, I am of the mind to give pause and see, exactly, which items are going to be offered as cuts in Medicare/Medicaid before engaging in "despair porn" of biblical proportions.

If benefit cuts are offered by the President – rather than provider cuts and measures to shore up Medicare corruption – then yes, I will be enraged. But until I hear such things, I'm going to hold off on calling for his ouster and declaring his political demise.

And Social Security? On that I too will wait to see what, exactly, the White House intends, rather than hyperventilate over reports this morning from journalists who, like some Daily Kos diarists, seize upon sensationalizing what has yet to be confirmed.

But Boehner? His fate, it seems, has already been set. And he set it himself. Bow completely to the Tea Party, or face the gallows.

And I'm betting on the gallows.

Originally posted to David Harris-Gershon (The Troubadour) on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:15 AM PDT.

Also republished by The Yes We Can Pragmatists.

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  •  Tip Jar (355+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NorthBronxDem, falina, jsfox, Quicklund, campionrules, cassandracarolina, MKSinSA, rkthomas, FrankCornish, FrankAletha, gchaucer2, David PA, terabthia2, seanwright, Jerry056, Curt Matlock, Tunk, CrissieP, Albatross, aoeu, fou, Adept2u, Roby NJ, stegro, Jimdotz, jayden, IDrankWhat, amk for obama, psnyder, teresahill, msmacgyver, smoothnmellow, eigenlambda, reginahny, psilocynic, Imhotepsings, qm1pooh, Ellid, ctexrep, DeanNC, Brit, Aquarius40, boofdah, Little Lulu, HiKa, joe from Lowell, surfbird007, mofembot, TheGreatLeapForward, TomP, wolverinethad, TexMex, second gen, itsantity, Athenian, stlkaper, Its a New Day, Vacationland, Brainwrap, Great Lakes Liberal, sable, Pinto Pony, Byron from Denver, arizonablue, anastasia p, FindingMyVoice, mumtaznepal, Delilah, atdnext, Nica24, pittie70, Dartagnan, Hawkjt, TrueBlueMajority, kafkananda, Phil S 33, happy camper, dejavu, rb6, sherlyle, cybersaur, gundyj, thenekkidtruth, qannabbos, Sychotic1, SneakySnu, bythesea, Mayfly, rscopes, pat bunny, Happy Days, onanyes, DaNang65, mapamp, Actbriniel, hayden, DEMonrat ankle biter, texasmom, cotterperson, PeterHug, antirove, California06, America2028, fcvaguy, JTinDC, Barbara Marquardt, Dragon5616, Heiuan, Ashaman, madmsf, snackdoodle, Texknight, edsbrooklyn, djbender, binkaroni, We Won, eeff, estreya, Little Flower, Cronesense, kestrel9000, NYC Sophia, briefer, cassidy3, history first, chmood, figbash, Voter123, dougymi, Caddis Fly, Beetwasher, Youffraita, Stephen Daugherty, eztempo, Greasy Grant, filkertom, philimus, mkfarkus, Sean Robertson, Mother Mags, MKinTN, mwk, Miggles, Dopeman, jalenth, raina, regis, engine17, GAladybug, Tinfoil Hat, BobBlueMass, Senor Unoball, GrogInOhio, dwahzon, Joe Bob, slapshoe, TobyRocksSoHard, kevinpdx, Wino, Ice Blue, Whimsical, markdd, sawgrass727, SilverWillow, cocinero, bumbi, OHdog, PoliticalJunkessa, Catte Nappe, TomFromNJ, clinging to hope, nominalize, Eddie L, quinn, tidalwave1, evilhoodedcrow, LaughingPlanet, doroma, grsplane, GrannyOPhilly, Gemina13, frisbee, thomask, Ckntfld, progressiveinga, Dom9000, gramofsam1, Ekaterin, Joieau, blueyedace2, terabytes, Gowrie Gal, JeffW, CarbonFiberBoy, CDH in Brooklyn, greengemini, ekyprogressive, begone, BlueOak, cacamp, Ditch Mitch KY, DaveVH, freesia, spaceshot, myboo, Dion, corpsechorus, bewareofme, bleeding heart, mikeconwell, xanthippe2, kjoftherock, testvet6778, scribe, peterj911, bluicebank, Statusquomustgo, hyper, Eileen B, AZ Independent, Nulwee, Alfred E Newman, TX Freethinker, bosshogg, ColoTim, dagnome, wader, where4art, Matisyahu, wmc418, NorthCacalakaGirlForBO, yet another liberal, Trotskyrepublican, DCBlue, Kysen, Dretutz, eru, AnnetteK, Pinko Elephant, Ace Nelson, jack23, Jeff Simpson, jan4insight, tegrat, appledown, tin woodswoman, JanF, OIL GUY, Paulie200, Bulldawg, mwm341, cyncynical, revsue, Lujane, VTCC73, PBen, chicating, OpherGopher, donnamarie, tobendaro, jolux, sewaneepat, tomjones, AreDeutz, Rumarhazzit, Gay CA Democrat, llbear, FarWestGirl, Arahahex, whenwego, ridemybike, gloriana, annieli, Jake Williams, el dorado gal, MikeTheLiberal, Subterranean, OllieGarkey, SherriG, missLotus, Judge Moonbox, ibinreno, Brecht, ord avg guy, tweeternik, Railfan, Hedwig, Bonsai66, OldDragon, Pandoras Box, NJpeach, rukidingme, lol chikinburd, millwood, mikejay611, Taxmancometh, Gary Norton, BarackStarObama, reflectionsv37, karmsy, FiredUpInCA, Onomastic, unspeakable, nonnie9999, DeadHead, bawbie, Cedwyn, LeftOfYou, Sassy, UkieOli, watercarrier4diogenes, Larsstephens, Pupmonkey, JD SoOR, tb92, NMDad, MrsTarquinBiscuitbarrel, janl1776, christine20, Sun Tzu, prettygirlxoxoxo, edrie, Ohiodem1, Otherday, MikePhoenix, GainesT1958, maybeeso in michigan, highacidity, Snud, lissablack, antooo, Loudoun County Dem, mr crabby, Regina in a Sears Kit House, LABobsterofAnaheim, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, elziax, skohayes, Jane Lew, dmnyct, moonbatlulu, Dingodude, twinshappen, Jim R, kerflooey, monkeybrainpolitics, Cleante, Sylv, RhymesWithUrple, Mathazar, Anne was here, AaronInSanDiego, ItsSimpleSimon, dmh44, rlochow
  •  Dream On (39+ / 0-)

    Have you not been completely unaware of the political climate over the last two years?

    Boehner weakened by something that he's doing with regard to his base? Really????

    Did you see the elections in 2010?  Only Democrats are getting punished for their political actions of late. I see zero, ZERO evidence that Boehner's negotiations, along with all the congressional Republicans actions, will lead to anything short of a total and complete victory for their party. That's how they will spin it, and guess what? That's how they will be believed.

    I weep for the Democratic party in this country.

    •  We'll have to agree to disagree on this... (51+ / 0-)

      Boehner is getting unbelievably hostile rhetoric from the Tea Party, and any capitulation will be met with fierce resistance.

      For the Tea Party, it's all or nothing. A position Boehner won't be able to sustain.

      •  I don't discount that he's getting flack from the (15+ / 0-)

        Tea Party. But in the republican base, this flack is used to drive the politicians to getting things done. Even if doesn't work completely - and don't get me wrong, Boehner's going to compromise somewhere - they will still vote republican. Let me repeat that.

         THE REPUBLICAN BASE WILL STILL VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION AS LONG AS OBAMA IS IN OFFICE.

        To a large extent so will the moderates - they have no beef with Boehner - and some independents will as well. They're scared out here - no jobs, high gas prices, etc.

        •  Tell that to Gingrich (6+ / 0-)

          His own party turned on him, failed the first time, shoved him out the second time. They hated that he compromised with Clinton on things.

          And yes, his margin of victory right before he was forced out was his smallest ever.  They will turn on them if given the chance.  Boehner might be reelected, but he won't be Speaker again once he makes a deal. Cantor will get kicked upstairs.

          I will respect the Republican Party the day they decide to start respecting all Americans....therefore, I will never respect the Republican Party.

          by wolverinethad on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:04:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  the GOP base will, of course, vote GOP (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pinto Pony, sherlyle, rb608, philimus

          But that's NOT enough to win any election.

          The base of either party, is, be definition, going to vote for them.

          That's not what swings elections. What does is the MIDDLE. You know, the people who don't follow politics like it's Word Cup Soccer, the ones who vote (sometimes) but don't pay attention to all the nuances of who's even running?

          Them. THEY'RE the ones who decide who wins. Not us, and most certainly not the shrinking GOP base.

          I don't know that the moderates will support the GOP - they certainly haven't done anything to fulfill all their lofty campaign promises. That's what people will remember.

          Because every election boils down to 'what have you done for me lately?'

          In the case of the GOP, for the vast majority it's 'not a damn thing'

          •  Independents will decide 2012 (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bewareofme, tb92

            Tea Party folks are at best 25% maybe a little more of the population.  They came out and voted in 2010 when many :Dems and Dem-leaning indies stayed home, largely because they vote mostly only in Presidential years.  But 2012 is a presidential year, and Obama's strategy, whether you agree with it or not, is to compromise on spending in an effort to entice imdepemdents to vote for him again.  I happen to think that he isn't in real trouble as long as the GOP lacks a credible challenger.  Even if the economy tanks further, enough people will prefer his calmness and the fact that he is a known quantity over some GOPer from the clown car.  Remember he was elected during a crisis because enough people trusted him more than McCain.

            I don't know if he is right on this or not, and I do strongly believe that the Dems should not cut in ways that undercut their position as the creators and defenders of Medicare and SS.  But this is a pretty complex exercise.  and I certainly would never not vote or vote GOP, given where we would be with any GOPer in charge.  The idea that things must get worse before they get better really hurts the most vulnerable in our society, and I'm not willing to see that.

            The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

            by Mimikatz on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:50:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, exactly like they did ... (0+ / 0-)

          When Christine O'Donnell "[a] Tea Party favorite, and with strong financial support from the Tea Party movement, ... defeated nine-term U.S. Representative and former governor Michael Castle in Delaware's September 2010 Republican primary for U.S. Senate"?

          There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. --Mark Twain

          by stlkaper on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:10:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  well i happen to think you're right about this.... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Deep Texan, otto, kafkananda, rb608

        ..... even if you treated me like shit the last time we crossed paths in these pages, intellectual honesty compels saying that your analysis is spot-on.  

    •  Boehner's... (33+ / 0-)

      problem is that his base is divided.  There's a substantial group (primarily driven by House Freshmen and ultra-hard right-wingers) shouting "never raise the debt ceiling, no matter what!" and a substantial group (moderates and more "business-oriented" folks) saying "get what you can, but we recognize that the debt ceiling is going to have to be raised."  It's those two groups at loggerheads.  The problem is that Boehner is going to piss off one group or the other, and it'll almost certainly be that first group, since that first group alone doesn't have the votes to get anything passed, while the second group alone is willing to make some sort of deal, which will need Democratic votes.

    •  The Tea Party is enough to make you drink (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atdnext, magicsister, coachster

      Can you imagine what it is like to be Boehner or Bone Head, as I call him?

      He is a crying drunk who is probably a little sentimental at times. Who knows in one of his crying moods he might actually be more pissed off at the Tea Party than the Democrats?

      I don't trust him. He is a lousy speaker of the house.
      I bet he wishes he hadn't been elected for that job.He could still be boozing and playing golf and raking in the perks of being the guy who delivers for West Chester, Ohio.

    •  Boehner made the advance (4+ / 0-)

      He is the one who went to Obama (in secret) to offer the idea of increasing revenue.

      Tea Party folk will read that as Boehner going to Obama and offering to increase taxes in exchange for accounting cuts to Social Security.  

      You can bet that if you read any Right Wing commentary on this, it will be more critical of Boehner and the Republicans for not going with something like the Ryan plan.  

      In their minds, the Dems have passed socialized health care (they haven't), they have increased taxes (they haven't), and they've made America weaker by cutting defense (they haven't).  

      In the fevered mind of the RW tool, this will not reflect on anyone but the mainstream Republican leadership.  

      You can bet that the Tea Party types are feeling frustrated right now, because they have been pushed to the back burner by the media and by elected Republicans.  

      It's always interesting to think about what it looks like from the other set of bleachers.

      From now on, it's called "Freedom Kissing!" "Wolverines!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

      by otto on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:14:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  David Frum (4+ / 0-)
      Then, as Republicans discovered the power of their new tool, the president decided to assume they were bluffing, that they would never actually do anything so reckless. Waking up to the reality of the situation too late, he commenced bargaining by offering what he assumed would be an irresistible deal. Wrong again. The Republicans did resist. So Obama offered an even better deal -- which predictably only whetted the GOP appetite for still more.

      Obama never publicly branded the debt ceiling as "if the Republicans force this country into bankruptcy." He issued no public call to constituencies like the financial industry to bring pressure to bear on the issue. He did not warn that he would manage any crisis in ways that Republicans would not like. ("If the Republicans in Congress deny me the authority to pay everybody, then I'm going to have to choose some priorities. I don't think it's likely that Texas-based defense contractors will find themselves at the top of my list.")
      Instead, he appealed again and again to Republicans' spirit of responsibility.

      Good luck with that.

      Obama Plays Nice

      The only downside in this will be for the terrible leadership and craven pre-capitulation from the President.

    •  Not sure if this will hold true in 2012 ... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, hooper, thurst

      ... Rethuglicans basically won the mid-terms last year on three things: 1) boasts about how they would create jobs where Obama failed; 2) promises to "repeal and replace" Obamacare; and 3) a demoralized Democratic base that did not get out to vote.

      I don't think any of those factors will be a big deal in 2012. Sure, the economy will still suck and the unemployment rate will stay high, and those will hurt Obama's re-election prospects. But remember, this Congress has not passed a single jobs bill yet. Not one. Nor have they effectively proposed an alternative to the HCR law. Instead, they've taken two months of recess and vacation time in just the first half of this year alone, and they haven't done a damn think to help people get back to work when they have been in session.

      Furthermore, the electorate is not likely to be as conservative, old and white in 2012 as it was in 2010. Although I am disappointed in some of what Obama has done (and failed to do) in his first term, I am also cautiously optimistic that he will win a second and do better then. I am also prepared to be disappointed once again.

      •  gotta question a bit of this (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dretutz, philimus
        ... Rethuglicans basically won the mid-terms last year on three things: 1) boasts about how they would create jobs where Obama failed; 2) promises to "repeal and replace" Obamacare; and 3) a demoralized Democratic base that did not get out to vote.
        #1 yes - and they have obviously not done one single thing to try to create jobs, but #2 was coupled with an (bogus but believed) attack on Dems for "cutting" Medicare which appealed to and won over a lot of elderly voters. #3 - no evidence of this in exit polling. Dems voted for Dems, largely, but the 'new voters' (not at all the base, people who signed up in 08 to vote for Obama but don't really pay attention to politics) did not show up and independents went from heavily Dem to heavily Repub.
        •  You make a good point ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          itsbenj

          ... particularly as far as #3 goes. I was thinking of the "new voters," especially the higher minority and student turnout, as being part of the base. But obviously that is not necessarily the case.

          On a smaller scale, we should have seen the problem coming when we lost the Virginia gubernatorial election in 2009. Our candidate, Craigh Deeds, never even made a serious effort to rekindle the fire with those "new voters" that Obama won in 2008. Consequently, they stayed home and the G.O.P.'s O'Donnell won instead. But it also did not hurt that O'Donnell never had to win a right-wing primary contest and therefore could position himself as more of a moderate than he really is.

          Thanks for the reply. And you are also correct that Republicans demogogued on Medicare in the 2010 mid-terms as well.

    •  Tea Party vs Business Roundtable (0+ / 0-)

      Not everyone in the  business community is going to short US Treasuries.  Business and even Wall Street as a whole don't want to see a default.  Right now they still don't believe there won't be a deal, at this is just the usual partisan gaes.  If we get closer and their people tell them otherwise, the pressure is on Boehner.  Cantor is the hedge funds' guy but Boehner is more main street/traditional Wall Street.  He will bend in the end.

      The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

      by Mimikatz on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:41:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You weep for something (0+ / 0-)

      that's been dead for quite awhile.

      I weep for the Democratic party in this country.

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:19:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Run against Obama because he Cut Soc Sec Medicare (49+ / 0-)

    Here is how this will work.

    They will accept the cuts in Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.

    Then they will run against the Democrats and Obama in 2012 using the fact that they cut these programs as a reason to vote against the Democrats and for the Republicans

    I am just surprised as h*ll I have to explain this to anyone.

    "You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." “When you come to the fork in the road, take it.” --Yogi Berra

    by HeartlandLiberal on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:22:58 AM PDT

  •  Puh-leeze, the only thing that could happen... (20+ / 0-)

    to Boehner is a loss of his speaker role. If Obama gives away the farm, he'll not only end his career, but will shatter the Dem party for generations. We'll literally have nothing to campaign on.

    •  I understand your despair, and while I agree (27+ / 0-)

      that capitulation could have disastrous consequences:

      A) Nothing has been done by Obama yet, and
      B) I think you underestimate the political damage that Boehner is about to do to himself.

    •  No, (7+ / 0-)

      Obama will not have done this.

      The Democratic and leftist base will have done this by not having a movement upon which to force political action. All politics is forced. A lot of liberals don't find this palatable because we have a lot more positive intention and feelings about human potential and the ideal of a ethically-based body politic, as compared to right wingers who love to wield power and force issues.

      The very existence of Social Security, however, was undeniably the result of the left and labor wielding their will with great political force, threatening to shut down ports from San Francisco to the NE US, and much more than I have time to recount here.

      Expecting Obama to survive the power of the corporate capitalist oligarchy without a large and sustained leftist movement is unrealistic, as I view history and where we stand now.

      There have been some pro-Obama folks with whom I have argued about what he meant when he kept telling us during the campaign, "Make me do it."

      I have taken him at his literal word, "Make me do it." Make him. By building a movement, and using the political force of that movement.

      Obama has a history as a community organizer. He knew what was coming towards him in the Presidency in my opinion, and also understood the nature of political force.

      Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity...

      by surfbird007 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:04:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was thinking about this last night (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        antirove, MPociask

        and I really don't have the answer...

        Why can't the President call for mass rallies for his positions?  Any party can show up?

        Is it economic?  Is it a law about what can be done from office?

        Couldn't the DNC put these types of events together?

        The President built a movement, and then intentionally just let it fade into the sunset.  Why?  There has to be a reason.  I am just not sure what it is.  But this is why I don't buy the "it is all the voter's fault argument".  There is a shared responsibility.

        And regarding the "make me do it", I don't think he said that.  I thought that was another President.  I thought he said he wants Democrats to hold him accountable and criticize him when appropriate.  I hope you take that literally as well.

        "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

        by justmy2 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:15:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The President didn't build a sustained movement (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cassandracarolina

          so much as a highly effective vote-getting operation as I see things, and that is what he needed to do to get elected.

          Leftist movements that succeed don't surround politicians and are not run by them, but tend to be organized fairly democratically and thinking both short and long term. There is no end to a movement. Even if we achieve the leftist utopia (not possible) in some matter of time, a movement remains necessary to sustain it.

          No movement leaders can often later become elected officials, and when they do, they tend to run into head-butting problems with their base. This is the nature of our system, and why electing a person, no matter who well-intentioned and true, is not an effective means to getting what we want.

          Even if Obama intended to sustain his campaign and try to propel it into a movement, the power brokers in Washington will have stopped that within minutes of him getting elected.

          I think it is a very healthy view to consider politicians nothing more than vehicles against which to wield power, even if we like them personally.

          It's complicated, and cannot be done justice in comment or even diary form.

          Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity...

          by surfbird007 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:26:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What is this "leftist utopia" you speak of? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NearlyNormal

            Apparently anything remotely liberal has now become "leftist" and completely unattainable.  Repugs love the term leftist, are you a rightist? Or just a corporate "centrist"?  

            Isn't funny how those who actually support what is going on always blame politics and claim its complicated?  That is what the establishment wants everyone here to believe.  That only so much can be done and that everyone's hands are tied.  Geez, obama is only the president of the united states, what can we really expect from him?  Or anyone else for that matter? Why don't we to just agree now that the president is merely powerless to affect change of any kind.  That he is just a negotiator between political parties?  Meaning no matter what happens in 2012, the dem running in 2016 really could be anyone, it really does not matter, right? Just as long as he can dupe the "leftists" into voting for him so he can run his centrist white house.

        •  Because if he appeals directly to the progressives (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coachster, hooper

          then he will have no one but the progressives to turn to in the future. Moderates and the few reasonable conservatives left (if there are any) will regard him as untouchable.

          Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

          by Nowhere Man on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:04:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  funny thing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NearlyNormal

            tax increases for the rich, the public option, closing guantanamo, marriage equality, holding wall street accountable ...

            actually appeal to both sides...

            who knew?

            "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

            by justmy2 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:21:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is *exactly* the point (0+ / 0-)

              If we (progressives) were a majority -- or even a significant plurality -- we wouldn't even be having this discussion. As it is, and especially because the liberal "brand" is so badly tarnished these days, we cannot make change happen by ourselves.  We are simply not enough.

              Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

              by Nowhere Man on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:28:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  but what I am arguing is that is takes (0+ / 0-)

                a leader to improve that brand...I am not saying hold liberal rallies.  I am saying hold rallies about policies supported by majorities.  I could care less about labels.

                "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

                by justmy2 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:36:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  you're assuming that a rally would be effective (0+ / 0-)

                  And I'm assuming it wouldn't be (see my comments immediately below.) I'd love to be wrong, and to have that error demonstrated to me, but I don't think it's going to happen.

                  Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

                  by Nowhere Man on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:24:28 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Your logic has failed you. (0+ / 0-)

            So who is he supposed to appeal to directly?  Centrists of course, right?  That is what all centrists want us to believe.  Centrists are happy with the direction of the country and have no need for those hippy liberals who helped elect obama getting in the way.  Obama did call himself a progressive during the 2008 campaign, did that make him untouchable to centrists and reasonable conservatives?  

            When centrists get their way they like to marginalize everyone and when they don't they blame everyone.  

            •  And you sprained your ankle (0+ / 0-)

              jumping to that conclusion.

              So now that we've got the pithy but useless soundbites out of the way: Can you give me one example of a progressive movement spearheaded by a sitting president since, oh, at least 1960? My argument is that you're asking for something that's, if not impossible, then damned close to it. Look at the history of mass demonstrations over the last thirty years (hint: I've been to a number of them), and tell me which ones were instrumental in effecting progressive change.

              As I see it, the cultural effect of mass rallies has been neutralized by a hostile press. If we want change to happen, we've got to do it one vote at a time. It's a long, slow process, but in some cases (gay rights, for example), we're seeing results.

              Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

              by Nowhere Man on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:06:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And no, Wisconsin doesn't count (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Vatexia

                for several reasons. I applaud what they've done, but it's been very much a grassroots effort, and most importantly, it's been a long, slow effort. I can't see any Democratic president successfully leading an effort like that. We have to do it ourselves.

                Let us all have the strength to see the humanity in our enemies, and the courage to let them see the humanity in ourselves.

                by Nowhere Man on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:19:43 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  asdf (5+ / 0-)

    Gee - I never thought of it like that.....

    I mean - you;re right - Boehner's job DOES depend on the vote of the entirely of the American populace......

    Oh........

    wait.............

    Never mind!!

    The Democratic Party. Never has so much been squandered so quickly for so little.

    by GayIthacan on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:25:15 AM PDT

  •  Devil is in the details (20+ / 0-)

    Thank you for writing this diary.  Saves me from expressing the same sentiment in a comment and thus getting sucked into the meta-war.

    As Douglas Adams said, "Don't Panic".

    Stop. Stand up. Make a sign. Walk around in public. Be polite and orderly and the rest takes care of itself. Want to shake up the Plutocrats? Demonstrate your attention to politics.

    by Quicklund on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:25:29 AM PDT

  •  So what? (7+ / 0-)

    Is he running for president?  He can be easily replaced by Cantor, or some other nutjob.  Obama can't be so easily replaced.  Unfortunately.

  •  it's win-win for Boehner (9+ / 0-)

    If he ruins hopes of Democratic victories by forcing them to act like Republicans, he's gets re-elected. As Truman said, whenever a Republican runs against a Republican, the Republican wins.

    But if Boehner cuts down his own re-electability, he knows he's got numerous cushy, rewarding jobs in the wings, being on the Board of Directors for a Koch Industries company, commenting on Faux News, etc. The oligarchs take care of their own one way or another.

    •  I doubt Boehner sees it that way (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      msmacgyver, Dillonfence

      First of all, he couldn't lose re-election in Ohio if he tried. I guess there's a slight chance he could lose in the GOP primary, but I have a hard time believing that will happen either. Secondly, if for some reason he did find himself turned out of office (i.e. hounded out by the Republican caucus for destroying their majority), I'll put it this way: I know of plenty of former officeholders who get very, very rich on their post-Congressional jobs. I can only remember hearing of one (ex-Sen Larry Pressler, R-SD) who was happier in his new career than in his old one.

      Certaines personnes prétendent qu'il ya une femme à blâmer, Mais je sais que c'est ma faute sacrément.

      by RamblinDave on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:41:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well This is True of All Of Them (0+ / 0-)
      But if Boehner cuts down his own re-electability, he knows he's got numerous cushy, rewarding jobs in the wings, being on the Board of Directors for a Koch Industries company, commenting on Faux News, etc. The oligarchs take care of their own one way or another.

      For many years there hasn't been a politician who was "punished" by his constitutents.  This is what makes certain primary elections particularly heartbreaking.  I fully believe in running the best possible candidate, but in some elections (particularly in swing districts) the enthusiasm for winning the primary (and punishing the DINO/RINO whatever) actually exceeds the enthusiasm for the General.  The general is lost, but the partisans believe they "punished" someone who know does cushy corporate speaking tours and is on the board of directors of ten fortune 500 companies.
  •  Thank you, Troubador (14+ / 0-)

    for a well-reasoned post, and excellent counterpoint to the mass hysteria that seems to have infested this site. I am not an advocate of blind allegiance to our President, but this rush to throw him under the bus on the basis of extrapolation from supposed remarks by anonymous people is unseemly and unwarranted. I hope that those espousing these defeatist views take more care in defending their loved ones and business associates from rumor and innuendo.

    You cannot enlighten the unconscious.

    by cassandracarolina on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:31:30 AM PDT

  •  Boener leaving is meaningless. (8+ / 0-)

    Some other Republican will just take his place.  The loss to entitlements, the loss to the Democratic Party, that will stay with us.

    Wisconsin is closed for political maintenance.

    by Subversive on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:31:49 AM PDT

  •  Thing is (4+ / 0-)

    Obama is now working against mainstream Democratic supporters' interests not to mention working in a manner that directly contradicts just about everything that he said he would do prior to the general election.

    Boehner is acting as he said he would act. Wonder if he has found any new golf partners lately?

    •  In my opinion, (3+ / 0-)

      Clinton worked against the mainstream Democratic supporters' interests throughout his entire Presidency.

      This is not a new phenomenon in post-Reagan Democratic politics. The collapse of leftist movements along with the rise of leftist movements has left a power vacuum in a nation where power is all that drives what happens in Washington.

      We are up against massive corproate money in a system already designed to benefit capitalism before democracy. The only way to counter that is with a massive on-the-ground movement. A collective left.

      I actually feel Jesse Jackson made some great strides towards this with the Rainbow Coalition, and the elements needed to build a collective left are with us as much now as ever.

      If we can get the collective will to build it, it will 1) happen on the ground more than on the blogs, and 2) be the only way to force Democratic Presidents not to work against mainstream Democratic supporters' interests as a matter of standard practice.

      Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity...

      by surfbird007 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:11:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Massive, on-the-ground movement" (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        surfbird007, hooper, Vatexia

        would be fantastic. However, if it's organized by the defeatists on this site, I can see it being called off at the last minute when some newspaper prints an unsubstantiated rumor from some unnamed sources. All across the country, people who mobilized their friends and families, took time off from work, saved up to drive to a Million Person March in Washington would be getting simultaneous text messages telling them to turn around and head home.

        You cannot enlighten the unconscious.

        by cassandracarolina on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:25:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  HA! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cassandracarolina

          Sad, but true.

          The things about it is, though blogging is one of many potentially-effective tools, movements won't be led and sustained by people who would rather weep and gnash teeth - whether their preferred medium of complaint is online or in person.

          Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity...

          by surfbird007 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:29:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks Troubador. This Ezra WP analysis makes (9+ / 0-)

    the best sense to me ... . Thanks for striking the reasonable tone.

    But last night, the New York Times posted a peculiar story saying that President Obama wants to shoot for a $4 trillion deal, rather than the $2 trillion deal currently on the table, and that John Boehner secretly told the president that he was willing to consider up to $1 trillion in new revenues if they came through comprehensive tax reform.

    So, for now, I'm sticking with my initial cynicism. If the relevant players can't agree on $2 trillion in spending cuts alongside $400 billion in new revenues, it doesn't seem likely that $3 trillion in cuts -- including major changes to Social Security and Medicare -- and $1 trillion in revenues will be an easier lift, particularly given how close we are to cracking through the debt ceiling. But I've been wrong before.

    The entire article is here:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    •  Ever read O'Henry story (4+ / 0-)

      about the little boy who was kidnapped and whose father ended up negotiating a ransom FROM the kidnappers?  

      There is a pretty good negotating technique called "raising the stakes" which makes the negotiations progressively  harder and more complex so that, eventually, you just go back to the first position where there is probably common agreement: nobody wants a default.  I would still put odds at 15% that what will end up passing is a clean debt limit.  You can't scream at the top of your lungs about the deficit and then categorically refuse to address it when someone is making overtures.  But that's what R's are doing.  

      I don't know, I am not looking forward to a default, and I am sure Boehner has known all along how misguided using debt ceiling as hostage was.  

  •  Obama is torpedoing Boehner the way (17+ / 0-)

    he showed Netanyahu who's boss.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:35:19 AM PDT

  •  Tip'd and Rec'd (14+ / 0-)

    Seeing all the hysteria on the Rec list right now I'm glad to see a more wait-and-see diary come up.  I believe there will  be NO benefit cuts to either Medicare or SS.  If I'm wrong I'll be the first to express my extreme displeasure at the President since I believe any benefit cuts to these programs would really be going against what is good for this country.

    But one thing I won't do is jump off the cliff like so many others have already this morning. Until we hear all the details any reaction is premature.

  •  Appears we're the ones in trouble. Us American (4+ / 0-)

    citizens that is.

    S.A.W. 2011 STOP ALL WARS "The Global War on Terror is a fabrication to justify imperialism."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:42:30 AM PDT

  •  I Was Wondering What This Article Would... (5+ / 0-)

    ...have looked like on a Democratic site.

    •  I think you mixed something up (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike

      This is obviously a Democratic site.  There is zero doubt.  It is right there in the FAQ and site rules.

      I Was Wondering What This Article would have looked like on a DNC site.

      Fixed.

      "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

      by justmy2 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:19:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  *I* didn't declare Obama's political suicide. (12+ / 0-)

    Personally I think that Recommended Diary is a perfect example of Daily Kos going off half cocked, as usual -- the usual rending of garments and wailing in the marketplaces before any FACTS have ever come to light.

    I find Daily Kos to be utterly ludicrous every time this happens, and it DOES happen every time.  Some rumour is published in the mainstream media, and the Daily Kos Hysteria Squad instantly kicks off in high gear.  It's become a joke to me now, the standard operating procedures of the "OMG I'VE BEEN BETRAAAAAYED" gang around here.  A sort of sad, shitty joke.

  •  Where will we be in 2014? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joe from Lowell, Odysseus

    A big budget surplus, the recession mostly over and military operations scaled way back.  The situation would be ripe for a repurposing of a significant chunk of the military budget towards more progressive ends. That is assuming the democrats are in control because otherwise it would just be tax cuts for the über wealthy.

    The problem I see here is we agree to a large extent on the results we want but many people seem to have no clue on how we can get there. I don't have the answer either but I'm willing to keep an open mind about the means.

    •  Sure. (0+ / 0-)

      And we'll run it all off of cold fusion from unicorn farts.

      No way this recession is over by 2014, and no way Obama stops the war profiteer gravy train.

      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

      by Punditus Maximus on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:00:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not by 2014..by 2018-2020, maybe (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sam storm

      Of course, that would hinge on the left learning and using patience and strategy instead of constantly reacting emotionally and shooting their mouth off constantly-usually directly into their own feet.

      So, not much chance of that happening, then.  

      "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

      by Whimsical on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:06:20 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Waiting to see the deal is a bad idea (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    damfino, Dillonfence

    as it will probably be released days before the debt ceiling is hit.  Better to assume the worst and write to/call President Obama, your Senators and your Rep now, stating your opposition to Medicare and SS cuts (and all budget cuts for that matter).  If you wait to see the details it may be too late...

  •  Obama will make an offer (5+ / 0-)

    That Boehner can't (or shouldn't refuse).  

    IMHO - he will offer cuts in exchange for ending the Bush Tax Cuts (which if I remember correctly - many were lobbying to call them the Obama Tax Cuts).  All Congress would have to do is nothing.

    I think Obama is hoping that the Repugs will refuse - show that they are really not interested in debt reduction but in taking care of their billionaire buddies.

    Boehner would then push for a short term ceiling increase.  It would give Democrats enough time to energize and kick the thugs out.

    OK - maybe I'm dreaming but I hope that's the plan.

    The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government. - Thomas Jefferson

    by ctexrep on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:51:13 AM PDT

  •  Here we go again. (8+ / 0-)

    The WP credits some random WH source as putting SS and Medicare on the table and people blow the fuck up.  Then we find out that it's not what it seems.

    The GOP's position is not to negotiate.  PERIOD.  The Obama Administration could agree to close half of the government's agencies and they would not agree to tax cuts.

    So I say what difference does it make what the Dems put on the table?  The GOP will not agree and the OA and Dems will be able to say, 'see, we put all of this on the table and the GOP refuses to negotiate.  They are jeopardizing this country'.

    That Boehner political suicide to me because he is the one who can't rein in his own crazed party.

    Tipped and rec'd for common sense being displayed here.

    "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

    by smoothnmellow on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:51:45 AM PDT

    •  agree to get RID of the tax cuts. (0+ / 0-)

      "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

      by smoothnmellow on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:55:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How does this help? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike

      How does literally dangling the lifeline of millions of Americans out there as negotiation fodder. If the GOP takes it, we lose. If they don't, we lose.  

      This whole stunt is fucking stupid. You simply can't bargain with SS and Medicare.

      •  How does it hurt? (0+ / 0-)

        Considering the idiots we have to deal with?  You guys really need to calm down here.

        "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

        by smoothnmellow on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:38:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Call the white house (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GAladybug

    let them hear how pissed you are about even the mention of cutting social security.

    -7.79, -7.75 http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Gosh!

    by Mindful Nature on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:53:43 AM PDT

  •  WH pushing back on story: SS not deficit driver (7+ / 0-)

    From HP article based on WH email to HP:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    "The story overshoots the runway," said a senior administration official. "The President said in the State of the Union that he wanted a bipartisan process to strengthen Social Security in a balanced way that preserves the promise of the program and doesn't slash benefits."

    "While it is definitely not a driver of the deficit," the official added, "it does need to be strengthened."

    The response, sent via email to The Huffington Post, provides a measure of assurance to Democrats who were taken aback by the abrupt news, broken by the Washington Post, that Social Security reform was now on the debt-ceiling table. Still, the devil is in the details, and the idea of "strengthening" the entitlement program remains the vague standard for reform.

    •  again...that doesn't sound like push back (6+ / 0-)

      it sounds like spin...

      the real question is "what constitutes major"...

      The CPI changes were validated by WH sources in the Politico "push back".

      So we just go through this dance as usual.  I don't think anything has changed from yesterday. The same deal remains on the table and we are just watching how both sides try to garner support for the final deal.

      We went through this during the tax cut debate.  The same exact dance.  A leak, WH push back, a food fight, and the basics of the leak ultimately being true.

      "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

      by justmy2 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:23:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's see. We're working in the dark. (0+ / 0-)

        I don't disagree that what you say could happen .. just not enough to go on yet.

        And ... why the "again"? Had you posted to me on this specific topic before?

      •  again... this is yet another MSM manufactured (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        David PA

        delusion designed to move people to mass hysteria.  This happened before when Politico broke a story (based on someone's random blog) about this same thing and folks lost their collective minds.

        When will people here learn that the MSM is NOT on our side -- like at ALL???

        "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

        by smoothnmellow on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:42:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  People said the same thing after the shutdown (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    second gen, pullbackthecurtain

    deal that Boehner made. He made lots of concessions then and compromised. Guess what? Nothing changed.

    'We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!' - Hillary Clinton

    by pot on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:56:14 AM PDT

  •  The Tea party will be in trouble (0+ / 0-)

    with its geezer base once the "keep the government's hands off my Social Security" signs get printed up.

    Signed, A. Geezer.

    Moderation in most things.

    by billmosby on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:57:36 AM PDT

  •  Boehner's a deal-maker at heart. He always was. (6+ / 0-)

    That's how he got to be Speaker - not by being a bomb-throwing, but by being somebody who can cut a deal that makes both sides happy and, oh yeah, contains a little something for him, too.

    He has no idea how to deal with the Tea Party.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 06:59:21 AM PDT

  •  Wait, what? You're willing to wait to see (3+ / 0-)

    what's actually happening in these negations, rather than demand the ouster of this president?  Are you insane????   Real Democrats don't have to wait!  We must throw the incumbent under the bus early and often because then we'll WIN!!!!!  Yay!!!!!

    Chumps.

    Luckily, that fainting couch diary has no mojo/power over either the proceedings or the incumbent Democratic candidate who will win the upcoming election.

    The people on this blog who attack this president at every opportunity are getting very boring.

    Best. President. Ever.

    by Little Lulu on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:00:36 AM PDT

  •  Oh, great (0+ / 0-)

    Another fucking meta/response diary. Personally, I look forward to the day when ALL diaries are about the same subject.

    Sorry, am I not clapping loudly enough?

    "I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's." - William Blake

    by Tod Westlake on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:02:35 AM PDT

  •  Are these mutually exclusive? (0+ / 0-)

    But in any case, I don't think the SS cuts beyond the CPI changes (which are bad enough) and the medicare/medicaid changes are going to happen.  I still am working under the assumption that deal is done and this is just more theater.  

    This one seems to be intended to continue to build Democratic support... (see: the ol' we didn't go as far as they really wanted charade)

    "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

    by justmy2 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:09:24 AM PDT

  •  So, just to be clear... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, coachster

    ... it's OK to speculate on media reports of strife within the GOP caucus, but not about potential cuts to social safety nets.  And we cannot take historical precedent of poor negotiations by POTUS into account.

    But, really, who gives a shit about Boehner's political woes when we're talking about the potential for catastrophic cuts to the social contract that could ensure a double dip recession?  Get real.

    Freedom of religion is freedom FROM religion. Tweeting @dmiller23

    by DailyDrew on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:10:01 AM PDT

  •  Fantastic! (0+ / 0-)

    The more political suicides the better.

    I'll be happy to get rid of 80% of them, and Boehner is right up there on the 'dance on his political grave' list.

  •  Good cop/bad cop (4+ / 0-)

    Seriously, you guys have never heard of it?
    republicans will accept some revenue increases (including tea party people) in exchange for massive spending cuts as long as those revenue increases are loop hole closings, deduction rollbacks, etc... The only thing they wouldn't stand for is any kind of increase in the marginal rates.

    The tea party is the greatest gift Boehner ever got. It allows him to be "reasonable" and play the "OK, I'm doing my best here, you better deal with me because you sure don't want to deal with those crazy fanatics. Don't worry, I can get them to sign off on this".

  •  Thank you, Troubadour, for the common sense. (4+ / 0-)

    Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is what now?  If we are so easily played can we ever pull together?  Don't you remember reading about how Mubarek played his countrymen for so long?  The thing that finally stopped the corruption was the determination not to be divided and conquered.

    Reserve judgement for Pete's sake and find out more before you decide our President isn't doing everything he can.  If we fly off again, where is the support he needs to be in a good negotiating position.

    I am so tired of our inability to stand firm and work together.  Its our Achilles heel that's for sure.

  •  I don't buy it. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, anagram, cybrestrike, coachster

    If the GOP gets massive cuts along with minor tax increases and/or loophole closures, some Tea Party purists will yell for a bit, but the GOP will soon realize what a huge win they got and Boehner will be a hero by the time his reelection is due.

    The GOP: Help the Rich; hurt the poor.

    by StevenJoseph on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:13:17 AM PDT

  •  Fair enough, but Boehner's not the real enemy (0+ / 0-)

    He's expendable, like the rest (Beck's in some sense a recent casualty, but so are all the fornicating Senators and so forth, if they do it badly enough to get caught).

    These are the little fish. They are not our problem.  ("Us" = the bottom 98%.)

    And Social Security? On that I too will wait to see what, exactly, the White House intends

    See Simpson, Alan.

    Yes, it's really, really aversive to recognize the obvious in this case, but ultimately I'm not sure how much another Friedman Unit's worth of waiting and seeing is really a search for information and not simply a kicking of the can to avoid planning for post-Obama.

    What do we want? Compromise! When do we want it? Now!

    by itswhatson on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:23:56 AM PDT

    •  Balderdash (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Whimsical

      Simpson couldn't even get his final report published, and had to sandbag the President by announcing a surprise press conference to pretend his views had gained sway. They hadn't, the majority of the commission found his views to be noxious. While I certainly objected to Obama's appointment of Simpson, it's grossly unfair to equate the two men. Obama appointed the rest of the commission as well, who leaned so far left that they refused to compromise, resulting in no final report. Ordinarily that would be an embarrassment, professionally. Simpson was counting on their caving to his crazy old man wiles, but they are the ones who gave him the shaft. Simpson got one day of media attention while the President was out of the country, but his subsequent performance was so poor that he was effectively neutered, and the GOP dropped him like a hot potato.

  •  no, not really (5+ / 0-)

    What will happen here is that most of the GOP will vote against the "deal", with just enough crossover to sneak it through. The GOP will be nearly unanimous against.

    Forcing Dems to be alone in voting to cut Medicare and Social Security, while the GOP takes a firm "anti-raising the debt" stand.

    Tea Party walks away content with GOP, fuming at Dems, then runs ads against Dems for cutting social security and medicare in 2012.

    perfect!

    •  But how many Dems will vote to cut Medicare and (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Unduna

      Social Security? I don't see that many wanting to follow Obama off that cliff.

      -4.38, -7.64 Voyager 1: proof that what goes up never comes down.

      by pat bunny on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:45:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No way the Teabaggers (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cassandracarolina

      walk away content with the Republican Party. ANY deal is going to set up howls from the right--and from the left towards Dems--as a sellout.

      ANY deal is going to piss off both sides.

      The unfortunate result may be that Teabaggers get a nut like Bachmann nominated from the right and work furiously to get her elected.

      Obama, on the other hand, is too strong to primary, but the left turns on him and either a) produces a cynical, ineffective whining jag that demoralizes the base or b) goes for a third party.

      Obama's only hope is that the prospect of a Bachmann presidency is so odious that the center holds for Obama and enough of the left is dragged along kicking and screaming.

      If the GOP takes control of the presidency in 2012, we're done for. Supreme Court, executive orders, judges, regulatory agencies. The ramifications are frightening.

      Just my take.

      The upshot for me is that I am working to get more and better Dems elected as hard as I can. I have no viable alternative.

      "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well, I have others." --Groucho Marx

      by Dragon5616 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:52:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pelosi will demand a GOP majority vote (0+ / 0-)

      no way the dems are going to carry the GOPs water on this one. They can see the trap as well as you do and won't fall for it. They may help them get over the hump if it's close but they will never let Boehner use democratic votes to supplant his caucus's votes.

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:29:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dionne's analysis is what we were predicting (0+ / 0-)

    back in November 2010, after the election debacle that put Republicans back in the House.

    I've been waiting for that doomsday scenario to begin to play out.  Better late than never, but nonetheless quite welcome.

    Fuck with the truth at your own peril. -Anonymous

    by thenekkidtruth on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:26:50 AM PDT

  •  Only problem with your little theory (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CatM, coachster, Celtic Pugilist

    Even if Boehner is done as Speaker, they will put someone in next time who is an even bigger radical nutbag who will oppose debt ceilings etc. Yeah, eventually maybe we will get the house back but by then every protection for the poor and the middle class will be gutted.
    It's a tall order for Pelosi to get back 24 more seats in the House and we are almost certain to lose the Senate. So even if O-Shama is reelected, it will be 4 more years probably of big compromises where we get nothing out of it.

    DADT is repealed. Time to implement. Then onto ENDA and DOMA, no time to rest

    by gladkov on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:27:48 AM PDT

  •  This perpetuates a myth... (6+ / 0-)

    ...one of my top 10 favorite diaries on this site of all time was one that explained that THERE IS NO TEA PARTY -- there is a just a Republican party. The "Tea Party" was ginned up by corporatists to kill health care reform.  It has no existence separate and apart from the Republicans.

    Boehner is no moderate held hostage by troublesome radicals.

    HE IS a troublesome radical. THEY ALL ARE.  

    I am waiting in my car, I am waiting in this bar, I am waiting on your essence. - Lucinda Williams

    by Bensdad on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:28:31 AM PDT

    •  Too right (0+ / 0-)

      though I will quibble on one point. The Tea Party is effectively an amalgam of lobbyists and strategists who don't all chart their political backgrounds to the Bush 2000 campaign (though I'll bet many of them do). So I'm willing to accept the existence of a certain new order of political ideologues attempting to wrest control of the GOP away from the old guard, even while their efforts depend on old guard approval (and money). If they want to be called the Teabaggers, then huzzah for them.

      It may be that Boehner is doing the bidding of this group, after all they tried to unseat him, so he had to strike a deal with them. This has caused him to swing more overtly rightward than he might have. But I agree he is perfectly comfortable adopting the stances he has adopted. He's just less comfortable stating his positions openly in ways that attach his name to the policies, which most Americans hate.

  •  Oh, this is perfect! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Troubadour

    A compromise from both sides where the results are that nobody on either side will be willing to vote for anyone! It will be a reactionary Utopia: no one will ever be elected again.

    I'm a concert pianist with a double doctorate... AND YOU CAN BE TOO!

    by kenlac on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:34:38 AM PDT

  •  The one thing I can't believe (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cassandracarolina

    is that all this tsuris is due to the not-so-helpful opinions of the self-hating David Frum. I think of Frum as one level of political toxicity below Dick Morris. Guy is a monumental tool, and the last one I would trust with inside information regarding the administration. He depends on drawing attention to himself to keep himself gainfully employed and he succeeded. This is all going down parallel to the last budget crisis meltdown, where the administration was cast as pathetic stooges to big business, and then everybody revised their later assessments. I don't know how things are going to break down, but whatever face-saving the President offers the GOP, I'm betting it will be minimal, and rectifiable.

  •  Thanks, I am surprised how (0+ / 0-)

    Quick people are to believe an unnamed source. If Baucus had been named as the source like he was on the earlier story linked below would people be as quick to believe it?

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

  •  The sky is perhaps not falling (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Unduna

    This morning I was depressed seeing the news. But now I think Obama is loudly signally to the media and public that HE is open to compromise and forcing Republicans to ante up or get the blame for not being willing to back off their principle. I do think Obama needs to occassionally find a principle he's not willing to back away from before the fight has even begun and that the White House has fumbled this from the beginning- for instance, why are they negotiating with the Congress who passed the budget that guarantees we need to increase the debt ceiling?

  •  When do I get to commit suicide? (0+ / 0-)

    Oh I forgot..I don't need to

  •  Everybody hates both parties in Congress (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, GAladybug, Celtic Pugilist

    And Congresspeople are only in trouble if they happen to be Democrats caught tweeting their package.

    Otherwise, most are gerrymandered into reelection, unless they get caught up in a wave election.

    2012 doesn't look like a Democratic wave to me.  And slashing Social Security and Medicare sure as heck won't make it one.

    Boehner is pretty damn safe (if also damn unpopular).

  •  Voters don't care (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    if Boehner can't "assemble a coalition," and other than Boehner, I don't know if many people care whether he remains speaker of the house.

    I do care about Obama doing something that could damage not only his reelection chances but also those of Republicans.

    As for not "hyperventilating" over unconfirmed reports, the fact that Obama stated as recently as yesterday that everyone was going to have to give something on the things most important to them supports the idea it's not just a rumor.

    The one thing the republicans want more than anything is for democrats to propose cuts in Medicare/Social Security to help them negate fallout from Paul Ryan's stupid Vouchercare plan.

    Obama has also mentioned both parties having to give up their sacred cows; to democrats, that's Social Security and Medicare.

    Further, the White House has been defending the proposed cuts already, and NOT denying them. I think that is also very telling.

    So, you can wait for the axe to drop, but I'd rather climb up the rafters and try to yank it out.

    We Won't Let Republicans Replace Medicare with GOP Vouchercare!

    by CatM on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:53:09 AM PDT

    •  The GOP has maneuevered the Democrats (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CatM, GAladybug

      into doing their dirty work for them and the Democrats played right into their hands.

      The one thing the republicans want more than anything is for democrats to propose cuts in Medicare/Social Security to help them negate fallout from Paul Ryan's stupid Vouchercare plan.

      Top Comment!

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:05:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Mistype: Should be "also those of democrats" nt (0+ / 0-)

      We Won't Let Republicans Replace Medicare with GOP Vouchercare!

      by CatM on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:12:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't care about Boehner. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CatM, AnnieR, eXtina

    He's the latest in a long line of GOP "leaders" who are hostage to the hate they rode into office.

    I care about whether or not this country can get decent policy, and that means I care about Barack Obama.

    The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

    by Punditus Maximus on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:55:31 AM PDT

  •  another 11-dimensional chess argument (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CatM, eXtina, thestructureguy

    no one has won 11-dimensional chess because no one has ever played it.  

    11-dimension chess is a psychological safe room invented by people who find it impossible to deal with evidence that the people they support are hurting them.

    "All this marching up and down and cheering and waving flags is simply sex gone sour." -Julia, 1984

    by pullbackthecurtain on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:55:32 AM PDT

  •  Guess it's one way to "throw the bums out". I (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jerry056

    think however, that some of our bums will be shown the door too.  What ever way this is sugar coated, Americans lose.  

    Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day. Harry Truman

    by temptxan on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 07:56:14 AM PDT

  •  Stop defending Obama (4+ / 0-)

    It is becoming ridiculous.  You are so eager to defend a failing and embarrassing president that you have no problem to compare him to Boehner.  The fact is that BOTH Boehner and Obama are failures.   They BOTH represent special interests and the very rich.    They have no problem destroying social security.  They simply dont care about the middle class.

    •  Epic FAIL. (0+ / 0-)

      This thread is about Boehner, not Obama.  That's the first thing you should note.

      If you even bother, which you don't most of the time...

      "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

      by smoothnmellow on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:46:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Tea Party Representatives are tools (0+ / 0-)

    being used by Boner and the establishment Repubs. They are there to make the hard right conservatives look sane by comparison. The majority Republicans could never have gotten so much that they wanted without the Tea Party making their position seem moderate.

    Boehner will negotiate with Dems, both of their political futures depend on it and the Tea Party will be offered token concessions.

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:03:43 AM PDT

  •  nah (0+ / 0-)

    boehner will come out ahead in this game. obama loses.

    Keep Religion in Church

    by titotitotito on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:05:06 AM PDT

  •  So? nt (0+ / 0-)

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:09:28 AM PDT

  •  this is just plain wrong (0+ / 0-)

    •  oops, link missing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      2laneIA
      •  Agree with your analysis. (0+ / 0-)

        This diary is wishful thinking.

        I'm worn out with the efforts to cast anti-Democratic proposals as great policy.  If Bush had floated chained CPI or raising the retirement age, a pack of flying monkeys would have dropped a house on him.  But if Obama does it, he is The Great Oz.  Policy should matter, no matter who proposes it.  And if the President is wrong, he's wrong.

        Any Democrat who proposes to cut these social insurance programs is wrong, and will likely lose the next election.  It's immoral and it's political malpractice.  Chained CPI will hurt people.  Raising the retirement age will kill some of them.  Democrats who vote for this will go the way of the 2010 Blue Dogs.

        Take the pledge on Social Security

        by 2laneIA on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 11:20:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This has been the GOP's problem in general (0+ / 0-)

    They are now being forced to chose between their ideological base, and the center, and the extremity of their base has made it nearly impossible for the GOP to find a middle ground with most of America.

    If we can gather up our strength, we can take our fight to them, and put the Republican's inability to serve both masters well in the strongest possible relief.

    The meme we should be pushing is that whatever concessions Republicans force on Obama, he can't be blamed for, because they were holding a gun to the country's head.  If they want these concessions to be repealed, and the country put back on a better course, they need to get as many Democrats back in Congress and the state houses as possible, so we can end this ridiculous cavalcade of failure that has been the Republican domination of politics.

    Simple question: In the years since Republicans successfully urged the disempowering of workers and unions in the Midwest, what has happened to those states economies?

    by Stephen Daugherty on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:12:45 AM PDT

  •  The GOP's hurt not always our gain. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greengemini, Subterranean

    To say that Beltway Republicans are/may be/are always in trouble with the teabaggers is a) most certainly true, and b) not necessarily a good thing.

    First off, the astro-turfed Tea Party isn't in the habit of replacing bad Republicans with better ones. Second, even if Boehner's goose is cooked, it does not mean that Obama's is not. That a big oven. If the Speaker goes down for tax increases to the wealthy, it's equally possible Obama goes down for Social Security cuts.

    Sometimes in a duel, both men get shot.

  •  Who the frak cares? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cybrestrike, Geekesque, coachster

    I'm not going to spend one yoctojoule of energy with concern about Boehner's political future.

    What matters is the policy. And any cut to SS or Medicare by either of our right and righter political parties is death for this country.

    Obama's playing with fire. And I'll be there with sharpened pitchfork and burning torch if (when) he goes down the austerity path.

  •  Listen to Cantor for 2012 spin (0+ / 0-)

    I see Boehner and Cantor both as competitors (word is there's little love, there) and as united tag-team mouthpieces for their Party.  Boehner speaks for the big money and Cantor speaks for the Tea Party fringe -- and Cantor tests messages and stakes out the "fight to the bitter end" public posture while Boehner extracts very public concessions from the Administration.

    In the Speaker and Majority Leader's public pas de deux it's Cantor that's going to land on the 2012 strategic message.  Cantor will speak for the frustrated Teabagging base, and Boehner will get all the money (and behind-the-scenes support) he needs to keep his office and his Speakership.

    I don't see any real risk to Boehner from the Tea Party back benchers at all.

  •  Anyone see the jobs report today? Mr. Swern, (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    GlowNZ

    are you there?  Where's the trend?  Where's the double-dip?

    People have strange fears and beliefs, some shared by the right, center, and left.  One of the most troubling is the continued belief and fear that Obama really does have a deep-seated hatred for white people.  It makes people cuckoo, on the right, and on the left.

    Why else would Obama want to reduce Medicare funding by reducing waste, fraud, abuse, and provider compensation, unless he was trying to destroy white people?

    “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." - Jesus

    by Jose Bidenio on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:26:02 AM PDT

    •  It's not about that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, GlowNZ

      I believe he wants to do the right thing. I even believe he cares about people a great deal.

      Nor do I think (and I don't think most people here think) that he hates white people, and it's pretty offensive that you would accuse a lot of your fellow Kossacks of being racists.

      This is about doing something that (1) will ultimately hurt needier people; and (2) is absolutely politically stupid.

      You can bet republicans are the only ones rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of this agreement. They know who is getting the best deal out of this.

      It has nothing to do with Obama wanting to hurt people and everything with him holding "compromise" up as some sort of ideal that should always be reached for. Sometimes, it is better NOT to compromise.

      We Won't Let Republicans Replace Medicare with GOP Vouchercare!

      by CatM on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:39:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  h'rated for bullshit. (0+ / 0-)

      May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back.

      by GlowNZ on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:13:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama and Boehner are both screwed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluicebank
  •  GOP wins if gov shuts, economy tanks. (0+ / 0-)

    Boehner wants to shutdown the government and kill the economy which will insure GOP win in 2012. Boehner's problem is Obama keeps giving in to GOP demands and Boehner can't force a shutdown. That is why you see GOP demands keep getting more and more extreme. If Obama completely rolls over then Democrats stay home and GOP wins. If gov shuts down, economy tanks and voters turn out majority party which, not that one would know it from Obama's incompetence, is the Democrats.

  •  The GOP wil GLADLY trade Boehner (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DefendOurConstitution

    for Obama.

    The replacement for the former is Eric Cantor, for the latter it is Mitt Romney.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:31:09 AM PDT

  •  Boehner is safe (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CatM, Catte Nappe, greengemini

    I thought the other diary was premature with the declaration that the president had abandoned his principles.  We don't know what he's done or not done yet.

    And I would suggest that this diary may have things a bit outta whack too.  Boehner will not lose his district.  He had the most qualified realistic challenger EVER in 2010 and still managed to win.  He's safe in his district though he may lose the Speaker's gavel.

    The other Republicans in congress are not safe if Boehner losses the argument.  Other Republicans will get primaried and face the wrath of the Teahadist.... and probably lose the House to Democrats.

    In 2010, I paid more taxes than General Electric.

    by GrogInOhio on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:32:15 AM PDT

  •  Boehner's toast no matter what. Teabaggers can (0+ / 0-)

    hold their noses only so long.

    The community of fools might be small were it not such an accomplished proselytizer.

    by ZedMont on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:37:45 AM PDT

  •  recced for the analysis. tipped for the wit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cacamp, CTMET

    "despair porn"... made my day!

    Pas de bras, pas de chocolat!

    by nominalize on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:40:51 AM PDT

    •  I wonder if people pay for despair porn or just (0+ / 0-)

      download it from the internet.

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

      by CTMET on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 04:08:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Heh (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brooklynbadboy, bryduck

    Do you really think so? You don't think Dems will blink first?

    I disagree.

    I think Boehner is just fine politically myself.

    This analysis strikes me as sheer fantasy.

  •  Rope a dope. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ditch Mitch KY

    Obama is still saying, "Come and get it, Republicans." It's working great. All of a sudden, Dems feel like they can ram through 50/50. I think they're right. This is Obama's doing.

    Corruption is what keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why we win. -Syriana

    by CarbonFiberBoy on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 08:58:20 AM PDT

  •  Boehner was toast from the start... (0+ / 0-)

    ...having ascended to the Speaker's position solely by dint of seniority when the Republicans gained the House. He was never suited for the role, even if he had not had a freshman class replete with batshit insane people like Allen West, and long-time kooks like Michele Bachmann. If he had more corporatists, he merely would have paved the way for President Obama to be easily reelected, and probably been primaried for it. Instead, the public, and his liver and kidneys, are going to suffer.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:01:18 AM PDT

  •  A choice between the country and his job? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ditch Mitch KY, brooklynbadboy

    Fsssssh. Not even a question. None of them every gave a flying fart about the country.

    He'll choose the Tea Party over the gallows so fast it will make your head swim.

    Treating employees well is good for the bottom line.

    by pucklady on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:02:25 AM PDT

    •  Duh -- He'll go for "the job" over country (0+ / 0-)

      Boehner is, and has always been, a partisan schmuck who was unfortunately elevated to HR Speaker -- a tragedy for our country.  

      Like the Tea Baggers -- like Rand Paul and others -- Boehner does not give a damn about our country.  It's all a massive power play to them.

  •  Two Ways To Look At It (0+ / 0-)

    One way is to regard Obama's move as a political gamble that will either destroy the Republican leadership if they compromise or show them to be utterly incapable of leading if they do not.  Another way to look at it is as an insatiable hunger for a deal on Obama's part, which may lead him to offer concession after concession in search of the "bipartisan" solution.  I hope it's the former, but I fear it's the latter.

  •  Oh, (0+ / 0-)

    fucking YAWN. Can we have some original thought on the Rec List sometime, instead of this tit-for-tat meta response ego-stroking bullshit?

    REPEAL the Telecomm Act & REVIEW this decision. NO journalist should be fired because their boss can't have the truth told.

    by lunachickie on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:08:55 AM PDT

  •  So this is all 11 Dimensional Chess? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluicebank

    Fool me once, shame on you...

    The Patriot Act: IOKIYAD!

    by Beelzebud on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:09:47 AM PDT

  •  Just as long as we're agreed (0+ / 0-)

    that when those cuts come, the outrage will be justified.

    Me, I'm not counting on back-up. Somehow, people have found a way to justify every horrible thing he's done - watch, he'll cut Social Security or semi-privatize it or cut Medicare or some other hideous thing... and there will be people here defending it. Defending him. And calling those of us who are outraged "haters."

    But hey, if he pulls a huge rabbit out of the hat, I'll be standing up applauding, believe me.

    I just don't trust him anymore. I am in a permanent state of waiting for shoes to drop.

  •  Boehner... (0+ / 0-)

    will get the tea party 97% of what they want, and he'll be in trouble with them.

    Obama will sell his constituents down the river in a more brutal fashion than a President McCain could have dreamed...

    and he'll be fine with them.

    I'm shocked, shocked, that the country keeps moving how it does.

  •  The devil is the details (0+ / 0-)

    That seems to be a truth that is being drown out by all these reports about the president "committing political suicide." Although I have some strong feelings about keeping Medicare and Social Security intact, I feel we should wait and see the actual details of the final deal before claiming that anyone, and especially President Obama, has "committed political suicide."

    The people united will never be defeated.

    by alaprst on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:21:44 AM PDT

  •  This is a wish diary. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bryduck

    In essence, you're saying the Speaker will turn his back on the people that put him in power in favor of the benefit of the Country.

    It goes against every single objective fact about the Republican Party.

  •  If the public opposes the GOP proposals, why is (0+ / 0-)

    there no public outcry?

    "Because I am a river to my people."

    by lordcopper on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:32:10 AM PDT

  •  Oh, well as long as a Republican loses an election (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Celtic Pugilist

    or gets in political trouble that's all that matters (provided the winner puts a "D" after his name). Actual policy doesn't. Right? Right.

  •  SS Retirement Fund IS solvent (0+ / 0-)

    Only when you add the other elements of Social Security like disability and survivor benefits does the fiscal picture change.

    Any solution that doesn't involve raising the earnings cap is unacceptable IMHO.

    Plutocracy too long tolerated leaves democracy on the auction block, subject to the highest bidder ~ Bill Moyers

    by Lefty Coaster on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:42:11 AM PDT

  •  he's being held hostage (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    by independents.   The Teabaggers are just saying what the rethugs have believed all along, and he'd support them 100% if there weren't still some swing voters with brains in their heads.

    Yeah, I'm pitchfork mad like that.

    by lisastar on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:43:01 AM PDT

  •   to appease his rich buddies boehner said. (0+ / 0-)

    tax hikes “off the table,”..... 112th Congress ->6 months of Boehner and his GOP ilk fighting for wealthy people! Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, Mitt Romney, big oil,  the Koch brothers etc etc thanks him.  

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/...

    33 senior citizens paying over $6k more in Medicare costs to pay for 1 millionaire/billionaire’s tax cut.Not on my watch...president Obama.

    by NorthCacalakaGirlForBO on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:49:40 AM PDT

  •  The Tea-scrotes will self-destruct (0+ / 0-)

    Böhner only has to wait, and to not interfere too much with us who should obviously keep holding their, uh, teabags to the fire in order to hasten the day.

  •  Canter is playing "hot potato" (2+ / 0-)

    and threw it to Boehner. Let Boehner take the fall then he takes over Speaker of the House and can threaten GOP to go even more to the right.

    I don't know what consciousness is or how it works, but I like it.

    by SocioSam on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 09:51:19 AM PDT

  •  You Forget: Boehners are a Dime a Dozen (0+ / 0-)

    There are dozens of Boehner clones in congress. they all took Norquist's silly little pledge, remember??

    BTW, Boehner is not "in trouble politically". in regard to that, depending on how severely Obama just agreed to swing the big meat cleaver to cut SS and Medicare, MY money is on Boehner to be re-elected, not Obama. I'm not happy about that, but for once let's get real here.

    Based on Obama's past so called "tough" negotiations with the clownservatives, I need to see that he did not (again) totally give away the farm, in order to get a couple of old, haggard cows in return from the other side.

    IF Obama and the "democrats" in congress want to bring their "austerity" meat cleavers down onto SS and Medicare, they damn well better ALSO bring them down on the bloated defense budget, NO $118 Billion to continue iraq and afcrapistan as the pentagon is demanding, and signifcantly cut the hundreds of billions per year worth of corporate welfare.

    Again, if they don't do that, the democrats are finished as a credible political party.

    "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

    by Superpole on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 10:27:46 AM PDT

  •  Oh, Troubador! If only this were true. (0+ / 0-)

    John "it's pronounced bay-ner not" Boehner is going to get re-elected as often as he wants.  Any compromise will be spun as a victory in the mailings to his constituents and they will sweep him back into office over and over.

    In America, the political game isn't played honestly.  His seat is as safe as Fort Knox.  Call me a cynic, but I'm no more than a realist.

    Still, I wish your scenario were true.

    Celtic Merlin
    Carlinist

    Sorry I couldn't take your call. I'm using my cell phone to make pancakes. Please leave a message.

    by Celtic Merlin on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 11:00:14 AM PDT

  •  The flaw in your (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon

    argument is the fact that while Boner may be in trouble politically we the people are screwed. this is politics that places the cart before the horse as while we Democrat's may win the election our victory is pyrrhic. We lose as a people, we lose our party as it does not represent the common good or our laws or even our system of checks and balances.  

    The Democratic party can't have it both ways either they fight the scary Republicans and fight for us or stop trying to pass this insanity off as by=partisan and compromise. Who are they compromising with and for what. They blew off their majority with this ridiculous kabuki and now they think this is going to fly?

    We lose no matter who wins when the only agenda that's on the table is austerity and the destruction of our country and party. So what if boner looks bad what about getting some representation and and a government that works for we the people and not just the owners of the place and the masters of war.

     you may think people who are not 'true progressives will buy this as a legitimate 'compromise but people are just not this stupid, at least not the ones who vote Democratic. They know when a bamboozle of this magnitude is steam rolling them, no matter how they spin it.  Boner may suffer but that is small conciliation to people who are forced to live in 'austerity to pay off the debts of the crooks and extortionists who own both our party and the government. Winning a future that is straight out of Simpson's cat food commissions playbook is not a victory that many will support.      

  •  There's a widespread, and false, belief, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, vets74

    that if you give a man enough rope he will hang himself.

    It turns out that hanging yourself requires some sort of solid object that will hold your weight.  A tree, a rafter, a politician willing to stand against you.

  •  Realistic expectations (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon
    If benefit cuts are offered by the President – rather than provider cuts and measures to shore up Medicare corruption – then yes, I will be enraged.

    I suspect it will be a mix of benefit cuts and reducing costs.  I would brace yourself for at least some benefit reductions.  Why will this happen?  Liberals and Democrats have simply failed to make their case to the public.  Voters assume that SS and Medicare are hopelessly doomed unless they're modified.  This message has been blasted at voters more than a decade.  It's become "common wisdom".  Democrats have done almost nothing to counter this argument in the public sphere.  This makes the GOP's job pretty easy.  Will they get everything they're holding out for?  No, but they've skillfully maneuvered these "sacred cows" onto the chopping block by holding the economic recovery hostage.  They did this before back in December with UI benefits and middle class tax rates - again threatening to undermine the economy in order to protect THEIR sacred cow: low taxes for the rich.  

    I guess the question is, what are we going to do about this?  Will we, at long last, begin actively promoting liberal policies to the public and challenging the "common wisdom" that has taken root with the public?  It is, imo, the only real answer.  We're great at talking to each other.  But that's not going to move public opinion.

    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

    by Triscula on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 11:25:03 AM PDT

  •  Boehner needs to stand erect (0+ / 0-)

    embrace him name literally, and do what's right.  Why worry, there's a lobbyist job out there with his name engraved on it.

    I could understand John wimping out to the Teabaggers if his namer were VaChina.

    'Slower Traffic - Keep Right!'

    by luvbrothel on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 12:09:15 PM PDT

  •  sometimes i smile around here... (0+ / 0-)

    because only a few seem to recognize the old theory that when your opponent is self-destructing - don't stop him by becoming a distraction.

    obama is stepping back and letting the tea party and republican party implode.  to join into the debate would only serve to redirect them en masse to attack him.

    the art of war: sun tzu...  read it.

    MOVE'EM UP! ROLL'EM OUT... MOVE'EM UP RAWHIDE!!! meeeoooow! mrraaarrr!! meeeOOOOOW!

    by edrie on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 02:20:57 PM PDT

  •  GOP: Good Cop, Bad Cop (9+ / 0-)

    I don't feel sorry for Boehner. He's an experienced pol who has been around some of the most nasty creatures in American political history. He knows the game well enough.

    This "debt crisis" is really a political impasse. If the House raised the debt ceiling (like it did 7 times under Bush Junior) then we would have no "crisis," true?

    The Republicans have a "good cop" and "bad cop" thing going on, in my opinion. The usual pols, like Boehner, get to be see as reasonable, steady, "good" guys who have to deal with those crazy, nasty, "bad" tea party sorts. We, the people, are supposed to love Boehner because he isn't one of those crazies. Something like that.

    I look at this artificial, optional "crisis" and want to barf. It is completely unnecessary. The wingnuts are playing a game of chicken, it seems, seeing which party has the nerve to drive the car of state over a cliff. Many of them use the poker analogy, so the temptation is to think they are just "bluffing" and gambling that President Obama, and the DEMs, are too timid and soft to stand up for what is right.

    Yuck. Where are the adults who don't have to play such games? We have people in Iraq & Afghanistan risking it all, and an unemployment rate hovering around 9%. Isn't that a serious enough state of affairs to compel our "leaders" to just do their jobs to the best of their ability and quit the nonsense?

    Greenspan admits his free market faith was "a mistake" - Reliance on self interest creates a flaw "in how the world works."

    by Otherday on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 02:43:50 PM PDT

    •  A Ballad of Boehner's Boner ? (0+ / 0-)

      Sexual intercourse began
      In nineteen sixty-three
      (which was rather late for me) -
      Between the end of the Chatterley ban
      And the Beatles' first LP.

      Up to then there'd only been
      A sort of bargaining,
      A wrangle for the ring,
      A shame that started at sixteen
      And spread to everything.

      Then all at once the quarrel sank:
      Everyone felt the same,
      And every life became
      A brilliant breaking of the bank,
      A quite unlosable game.

      So life was never better than
      In nineteen sixty-three
      (Though just too late for me) -
      Between the end of the Chatterley ban
      And the Beatles' first LP.

      -
      -
      -
      -
      -
      It's really Philip Larkin's Annus Mirabilis

      Angry White Males + Crooks + Personality Disorder psychos + KKKwannabes + "Unborn Child" church folk =EQ= The Republicans

      by vets74 on Thu Jul 07, 2011 at 04:19:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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