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Hey, you got 98% of what you wanted, right? Notice that Kos and all of the other progressives just got beat in Wisconsin. After chattering about the recall and the power of the people. They got skunked. They lost four out of six. Notice no one is calling them lousy strategists. No one is calling them losers-in-chief. No one is bemoaning the money WASTED to lose four of six.

When Obama WINS he gets more crap than this. The double standard is emerging.

And what gives? I thought the answer was that the President merely had to FIGHT. I thought that if we really had some angry progressives saying progressive things, then boy the people would be coming to the polls through the f'n window. What happened? People like Kos failed and he had a diary saying if 2012 is like this then he will be happy! WTF?

What I really want to point out is that Kos and others are quick to make excuses for themselves. Here is the best one with my take:

"Hey, it was a bunch of red districts so we did well considering."

   -Did you catch that? Progressives that have pounded the President for celebrating compromise in the harsh light of red state intransigence are, what do you know, wanting credit for any bit of victory because it is tough out there in the real world.

   Mind you I do not mind this argument on its own. I believe it is a fair point. But it is a point consistently hammered when the President uses it. People act as if the President is a sell out bum if he makes these types of arguments.

All I'm asking for is consistency. If you are going to be understanding of everyone else based on the tough circumstances you could at least extend that courtesy to the President who is in the very same boat as you.

Keep this in mind. Republicans in Wisconsin were and will still be in full on attack mode against the worker. And STILL the voters helped them win four out of six recall elections. It boggles the mind, but it just happened. You might want to remember that this is the type of situation the President faces as well. So each time you get that urge to wonder what he is doing and why the legislation can't be perfect. Remember that you aren't perfect and the circumstances aren't perfect.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 0-)

    by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:32:01 AM PDT

    •  So you don't care about policy. Just fighting? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      manucpa, MKSinSA, satrap, Grumpy Young Man

      Because Obama has gotten more done his way than what you saw accomplished in Wisconsin last night.

      If the point is that fighting is a victory in and of itself then you are no different than the Tea Party, IMO.

      The President has gotten results. Mind you, they weren't perfect, but they were improvements over the status quo. When he pointed out that this was the best that could be done in the circumstances he was given insults.

      But if he had lost completely I guess you would have been okay so long as he fought?

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:40:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You can walk and chew gum at the same time (4+ / 0-)

        Rahm.  LOL.

      •  They didn't 'just fight'. They won two more seats (8+ / 0-)

        Fighting = electoral victories.

        Would it have been nice to flip the Senate?  Sure.  But politics isn't instant gratification.  You fight to win, then you keep fighting and win more next time.

        On the other hand, if you DON'T fight, you lose seats (cf 2010).

        The message is clear.  Don't fight, lose seats, Fight, win seats.

        •  Politics isn't instant gratification (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Grumpy Young Man

          I agree with that.

          I just think that this place tends to only selectively apply that idea.

          I further reject the idea that the Dems didn't fight in 2009-2010...

          I get that PPACA wasn't the bill this place would write, but it was a step in the right direction and DID put a hard stop on a 30 year long rightward drift in health care policy.  The funding for public health clinics and such alone would have been the largest single injection of public funding into health care since Medicare, while the gutting of the privatized aspects of Medicare reversed and moved in the other direction a trend that has been going on since the GOP took Congress in 1994... and this was after the bill was "dead" about 3 or 4 times.

          I get that people wanted a different and larger stimulus, but it was STILL the largest domestic spending bill in history and even if you trim out the tax breaks as a part of it, larger as a percent of GDP than anything FDR did in 1933-34.  

          I get that people would have much preferred to see Wall Street burned to the ground, but Dodd-Frank was the single largest oversight and accountability legislation to be foisted onto the banking and securities industry since the Great Depression.

          Politics isn't instant gratification, as you said.

          Full Disclosure: I am an unpaid shill for every paranoid delusion that lurks under your bed - but more than willing to cash any checks sent my way

          by zonk on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:16:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  They had a net gain of two seats (9+ / 0-)

    5 of the 6 favored the Republicans to one degree or another.

    Last time I checked, Obama lost 63 seats.

    •  Obama lost? Somehow it is still his fault, eh? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MKSinSA, jmrichardson

      Isn't that great? Even when the President is not on the ballot he cost you.

      This is not Obama's defeat at all. And it wasn't his defeat in 2010.

      This was a total failure. When I gave money to this recall it was never said that the goal was to gain two seats. It was to gain three and that didn't happen. Republicans still run Wisconsin. It was a failure.

      Before we can learn from Wisconsin we must acknowledge what happened and not try to spin it.

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:46:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, it was primarily his fault (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Razorblade, banjolele
        •  Is that snark? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MKSinSA, Grumpy Young Man

          The Blue Dogs undercut his agenda, and got crushed.  I don't know why our base ain't buying it, but according to yahoo, the Union busting was left out of the messaging.  This would be like focusing on the damage to the road and not the car ir you were an adjuster.

          A genius aware of his intelligence is an idiot. An idiot aware of his intelligence is a genius. -Blue Tex

          by Blue Tex on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:54:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib, Ezekial 23 20, banjolele

            He focused on health care when he should have been focusing on the economy.  Let it drag on and on.  And ended up with an unpopular law anyway.

            Not to mention his failure to use the "bully pulpit" to take on the teabaggers before they got traction.

            •  The baggers only got life (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MKSinSA, Grumpy Young Man

              because there primaries were successful.  Hmm.  Calling challengers for Senator McKaskill?  Obama is not dumb enough to create an enemy, had he done that, they would have had more credibility.  Few people thought that this group would oust their own party's insiders.  Maybe we can do the same thing?

              A genius aware of his intelligence is an idiot. An idiot aware of his intelligence is a genius. -Blue Tex

              by Blue Tex on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:01:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No they didn't (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                They had life by the spring of '09.

                •  Then it was up the the GOP establishment to (0+ / 0-)

                  kill it, not Obama.  And he would have had Democrats not watered down his agenda, I mean, you do realize that Congress negotiated away a lot of stuff right?  Sure he took the public option out, which was wrong, but it was DOA anyway.  Why?  What does that say for OUR party?

                  A genius aware of his intelligence is an idiot. An idiot aware of his intelligence is a genius. -Blue Tex

                  by Blue Tex on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:06:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Separate issue (0+ / 0-)

                    I'm not defending congressional Democrats, but that's not the issue.  It was his responsibility to "kill" the teabaggers as you say.  They were going after his policies.

                    •  That is a disagreement between you and me (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Grumpy Young Man

                      as I say that if Republicans would have held firm and protected their incumbents it would not have been an issue.  To suggest that Obama, smack in the middle of his honeymoon, should go and engage a whacko group to me would not be good strategy.  Now once Coakley went down, yes, firepower was called for.

                      A genius aware of his intelligence is an idiot. An idiot aware of his intelligence is a genius. -Blue Tex

                      by Blue Tex on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:18:13 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

      •  Avoid Spin For Proper Decision-Making (0+ / 0-)

        What the commenter says here is true.  If you spin this result, you deceive yourself and you risk making further bad decisions.  For example, people really need to examine whether a recall of Scott Walker is a good use of resources given what happened yesterday.

        And the commenter makes a very important point.  This country does not agree with progressive priorities.  It is a stone cold fact.  There are buildings full of data that prove progressive policies will benefit the most people and move the country toward prosperity, but that does not change the fact that people just don't believe it.  They have to experience it in their own lives, and most people have not had those experiences yet.

  •  This was not a general election. It was a recall. (12+ / 0-)

    6 incumbent Republicans in districts that elect Republicans. Now there are 4, in the middle of their term. It would have been outstanding to do better and change the Senate majority. Diarist's anger seems misdirected, IMO.

    "So, am I right or what?"

    by itzik shpitzik on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:40:56 AM PDT

    •  He appears, from his sig, to be a Rahm fan, (6+ / 0-)

      so we're probably lucky it was at least a non-profane diary. He could have called us "f*cking retarded".

      A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. - Edward R. Murrow

      by jayjaybear on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:42:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Lucky for us he didn't. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        too bad for him I will.  This diary is fucking retarded and the diarist is either a troll or a moron.  

        We won 2 seated and so far have defended EVERY SEAT.  Last 2 coming up.  Yet despite the insurmountable odds this moron is spinning it as a loss.  I wish we could send this diary spinning down the toilet along with the other crap.

        This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

        by DisNoir36 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:29:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm pointing out the double standard. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MKSinSA, Grumpy Young Man

      Failure by progressives is met with understanding and rationalization.

      When the President SUCCEEDS he gets more flak than this.

      At this point it looks like progressives should at least give the President as much slack as they give bloggers.

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:47:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  what success are you referring to? (5+ / 0-)

        I don't remember any flak for Lily Ledbetter act. What other successes should we be discussing?

        If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

        by jgnyc on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:01:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Did you miss... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Grumpy Young Man

          the whole DADT repeal fight?  Do we need to go through all the posts about how Obama was taking too long, should've gone with an executive order on Day 1, should've done it sooner, quicker, etc.?

          Or how even after killing bin Laden, there were complaints that we should've tried to take him alive, or not bury the body at sea, or we should've released the photos of a dead bin Laden, etc.?

          The most inane, though, was people complaining that college students shouldn't have been spontaneously celebrating that night in front of the White House and in New York City when they heard bin Laden was dead, even though for people that age, the threat of bin Laden had hung over their heads for about half their entire life.

          •  Bin Laden complaints on this site? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            The Dead Man

            I don't remember that.
            DADT? Calling that a success is like giving the Mayor credit for the tide coming in. Bush tax cuts? Afghanistan? No shovel ready projects? On the debt ceiling deal Obama went into the 15th round ahead on points and was knocked out cold. November 2010 - or rather the pre-election concession interview in October 2010?

            Comparing a record of legislative failure and holding actions to a bunch of under funded grassroots activists trying to recall state senators without any help what so ever from the national party isn't really ... uh ... on topic.

            However, a loss is a loss. The Republicans in those districts voted against the public employees unions, plain and simple. I remember from the campaign that Obama would "walk that picket line". I guess that rhetoric didn't poll well with the right leaning independents.

            If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

            by jgnyc on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:41:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Progressives won two seats they didn't have before (5+ / 0-)

        The only people screaming 'loss for progressives' today are trolls.

    •  WI-32 is more blue than red (0+ / 0-)

      It's not deep, dark blue - but imperfect overlays aside, it's represented by a Democratic Congressman (Ron Kind) and generally votes Democratic at the federal level.

      Full Disclosure: I am an unpaid shill for every paranoid delusion that lurks under your bed - but more than willing to cash any checks sent my way

      by zonk on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:28:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So this is what we've been reduced to? (6+ / 0-)

    Some progressives are openly happy when President Obama suffers a setback?

    Obama supporters are touting Democratic defeats in Wisconsin because it's seemingly a kick in the shins to progressives?

    Stop it. Enough. Basta.

    I'm an avid Obama supporter, okay? Do I think his administration has been perfect? No. But, hell, I would crawl through glass to vote for him again. And yes, some of the criticism on this site of his administration has driven me to anger and nasty arguments.

    But last night's results? I think they're pretty awesome. As Kos explained, we poached two seats from Republican districts.

    All Democrats should be pleased by what happened last night in Wisconsin.

    I see your point to a degree, diarist, but this tit-for-tat infighting amongst us, I fear, will lead to one horrible conclusion:

    President Romney.
    Or maybe President Bachmann.
    President Santorum?

    Ultimately, we're all in this together, I sincerely hope.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:45:12 AM PDT

    •  Some people are never happy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BenderRodriguez, Sychotic1

      I am almost convinced that some people here actually want President Perry, Bachmann, Romney.

      They want it not because they support them, they aren't trolls.  No, they want it because they need to have a foil they can scream at in the White House.  Right now, it's Obama, but despite not being the second coming of FDR, there is still an immense amount of good things he's done.

      There are people who want the right wing lunatic because then there will be more to bitch and complain about.

  •  Rec'ed anyway (7+ / 0-)

    But you ought to consider rewriting it a bit to tone it down.  I think you've made some excellent points here - especially that this place seems to generally accept political realities and be able to find silver linings everywhere EXCEPT 1600 Pennsylvania, where nirvana is always just a bully pulpit away.... However, the way you said it is only going to draw a pie fight rather than the necessary and valuable discussion you could initiate here.  

    Just a nickel's worth of advise... I agree with you otherwise.

    Full Disclosure: I am an unpaid shill for every paranoid delusion that lurks under your bed - but more than willing to cash any checks sent my way

    by zonk on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:47:18 AM PDT

    •  So you are into a good whipping (0+ / 0-)

      are ya diarist?  Excuse me while I put on the ol' firesuit.  O.K.  Ready guys!

      A genius aware of his intelligence is an idiot. An idiot aware of his intelligence is a genius. -Blue Tex

      by Blue Tex on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 05:50:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You wrecked this pie fighting, nyah nyah (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ezekial 23 20

      in your face you fucking progressives diary?  Really?  Seriously?

      Wisconsin was about Republican overreach and a backlash.  Why is this even a progressive thing?  Isn't this a Democratic thing or have we really gone that far?  We can't have things that the whole party wants, just one side or another.

      If you think education is expensive, wait until you see how much stupid costs

      by Sychotic1 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:39:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I did and would again... (0+ / 0-)

        As I said above, I'd have suggested toning down the nyah nyah in favor of the larger point, but I think the larger point is valuable enough to survive the piefighting.

        The fact of the matter is that the diary does point out an important paradox that ought to be considered.

        Full Disclosure: I am an unpaid shill for every paranoid delusion that lurks under your bed - but more than willing to cash any checks sent my way

        by zonk on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:00:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I completely disagree (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Ezekial 23 20

          and I believe this speaks to how unbearable this site has become with the pie fighting.  Quite frankly this is a troll diary.

          As someone who has never written any pie fighting diaries or even posted any pie fighting posts, I am heartily sick of the attacks on progressives as if the  whole group is somehow to blame for this pie fight.

          And moreso I am fucking sick of people buying into the meme because

          Nor does it further our cause, it is pie fighting and trollery, nothing else.

          If you think education is expensive, wait until you see how much stupid costs

          by Sychotic1 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:10:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That road goes both ways though... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aisling, Catte Nappe

            I suppose it might be fair to say that I'm more of a "Democrat" than a "progressive" -- on a personal, philosophical level, in a "if I had a magic wand" sort of way, there probably isn't a whole of 'progressive policy' I don't fully embrace (so long as we don't confuse rants with policy).

            However, I say I'm more of a Democrat than a progressive because ultimately I do believe in the system and I think that the Democratic party, however disappointing it may sometimes be, and however tactically it may not jibe with me (a truism of all armchair QBs).

            In the case of the Wisconsin recalls, going back to your original comment -- I would heartily agree that this wasn't a "progressive" thing... it was more of a Democratic thing -- the GOP was (and will continue) to overreach and sometimes you have just try to be the bulwark that seeks to limit the damage they do.  

            The Democrats who won -- and even the ones who lost -- were seeking to be that bulwark.  They had no great plans to bring about a new progressive utopia; they ran on stopping the GOP's dismantling of public employee unions... not to "strengthen" them or add to them, but to stop their destruction.  

            Even the unions themselves who were critical to this effort quite rightly pointed out that they were willing to negotiate some manner of contract givebacks when Walker and company began stomping on them.  Yet - no one called them weak or lambasted their willingness to compromise for a greater good or because they recognized that sometimes you're the Louisville slugger, and sometimes you're the ball.

            We came up short.  I'm all for cheering the fact that there are two more Democrats in the WI State Senate today (or whenever they're sworn in) than there were yesterday - it's a good thing and we SHOULD build on it.

            As a Democrat, I just wish that larger theme of being the bulwark, stopping the slide, clawing back ground where we can, and seeing those silver linings would be more universally applied.

            Full Disclosure: I am an unpaid shill for every paranoid delusion that lurks under your bed - but more than willing to cash any checks sent my way

            by zonk on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:25:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly correct. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Winning the seats in Wisconsin was not a 'progressive' goal, it was a 'Democratic goal'.  So painting it as a 'progressive loss' is pure pie war trollery.

    •  You make an excellent point vis-a-vis tone. (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not going to change it because you can't un-ring the bell, but you make a fair point.

      My only defense is that after months of reading hyperbole by people on this site that I decided to make a point based on their spinning now.

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:16:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We were just HR'ing some troll peddling this BS (8+ / 0-)

    in another diary.

    We picked up 2 seats in Wisconsin while losing 0.

    That's a 'win'.  Go peddle your 'progressives are complete losers' BS over on RedState.

  •  Did I miss Obama in Wisconsin? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Or did I miss how public employees unions poll with right leaning independents? With a hint of the national party behind us last night might have been slightly different. But the White House hasn't decided if they stand with labor. I guess the "I'll walk the picket line" rhetoric didn't poll well enough after the fact.

    I agree with one point. This was a loss. There is no silver lining.

    If you didn't like the news today, go out and make some of your own.

    by jgnyc on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:06:33 AM PDT

  •  The difference... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pale Jenova, Scarce

    is that Kos got out there and fought for Progressives.  We can't even get Obama to fight for Democrats.

    Terror has no religion.

    by downsouth on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:15:44 AM PDT

    •  Obama is fighting for the people. (0+ / 0-)

      And those with pre-existing conditions or those that were 24 and bounced off their parents' insurance appreciate it. Those going to get insurance with government help appreciate it.

      Homosexuals that can now serve openly in the military appreciate it.

      The people that hate Obama the most are the far left and far right. I wonder why that is?

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:14:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hmm. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I don't "hate Obama".  I am disappointed and disillusioned with him.  I feel betrayed.

        "Fighting for the people"?  Which people would that be?  The Wall Street fat cats who faced no investigation, much less conviction, over financial fraud?  The military contractors who benefit from the war in Afghanistan?  The rich donors?  Are union members not "the people"?  Why did he remain silent while Wisconsin destroyed the unions, if he is "fighting for the people"?  And what about this debt ceiling "deal"...not to mention the horrendous proposal he himself submitted that was rejected.  Are these the actions of a man "fighting for the people"?

        Yes, he passed health care reform.  But not before taking the public option off the table.  Has Obama done some good things?  Sure.  But where is Dick Cheney right now?  Certainly not in prison.  Where are the terror trials in federal courts?  Why is Guantanamo still open?  Where are the trials for financial fraudsters?  Why is the Patriot Act still in effect?  Why does he continue to use the National Secrets defense in courts?

        Also, why does he maintain a list of American citizens 'approved' by him for assassination?  Is my name, as a Muslim American, on that list?  Who knows...because when you start things like that, anything is possible.

        I stand by my comment.  We have been betrayed by Barack Obama, and supported by Markos Moulitsas.

        Terror has no religion.

        by downsouth on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:55:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Above someone mentions your anger (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pale Jenova, The Dead Man

    seems misplaced. Maybe so,maybe no. Hard to tell since it is unclear which side you are on.  

    If Obama became the GOP candidate tomorrow,would that make you happier?

    "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

    by tardis10 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:16:32 AM PDT

  •  I should point out that there are 9 races to... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, Scarce, tardis10

    ...consider here, not 6, if you're gonna try to make a parallel to Congress as a whole (ie, GOP seats + Dem seats).

    The Dems have retained 1 and taken 2 so far. The GOP has retained 4 and lost 2.

    There are still 2 Dem seats to go.

    So, the score is currently:

    Dems: 3
    GOP: 4
    TBD: 2

    If the Dems retain both of their seats next week, the final tally will be Dems 5, GOP 4. The fact that they needed 6 out of 9 to retake the Senate is a separate issue.

    Not saying whether your larger point is correct or not, but it's a flawed comparison.

  •  At least Wisconsin Democrats are fighting. (5+ / 0-)

    And lets not forget, they have two more seats in the Senate today than they had yesterday. That's gaining, isn't it?

    So, how's that "balanced approach" coming along?

    •  The balanced approach has done well. (0+ / 0-)

      Pre-existing conditions-Gone
      Health care as a right through mandate-Done
      Financial reform-Passed
      Stimulus-saved jobs
      Iraq-wrapped up
      Bin Laden-DEAD

      Working pretty well I'd say.

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:13:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and... (0+ / 0-)

        chronic unemployment
        first ever credit downgrade
        record foreclosures
        highest inequality in the western world
        greatest wipeout of black wealth in history
        failed stimulus
        lost a house of congress in record numbers
        lost more state houses than any election in history

        But im sure underwater homeowners will be pleased that elena kagan got appointed to the supreme court. and the unemployed will just revel in the joy of the dodd-frank reforms.

        •  Oh brother... (0+ / 0-)

          Chronic employment is Obama's fault?
          The downgrade is Obama's fault?


          by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 11:18:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Heh. heh....exactly... (0+ / 0-)

            if its good and it happens on obama's watch, he gets the credit.

            if its bad and it happens on obama's watch, somebody else is at fault.

            •  I don't blame him for things that aren't his fault (0+ / 0-)

              When Republicans block his every attempt at creating more stimulus and cut government jobs that creates the unemployment you speak of. That is NOT the President.

              When the Tea Party plays chicken with our default that is their fault NOT the President.

              I don't blame him for things he did not do. Pretty simple.


              by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 02:45:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  So you are happy we came up short? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10, Sychotic1

    How does that help Obama?

    I see a complete lack of logic.

    Where was the national Democratic party during the Wisconsin recalls? The Republicans and Koch brothers were "all in." Where were the Democrats?

    "I want my Obama back!!!"

    by Pale Jenova on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 06:42:14 AM PDT

  •  Disagree, but rec anyway (6+ / 0-)

    I think you're wrong about the win/loss in Wisconsin. The truth is, through hard work and passion, we moved the ball to the left.

    Not a touchdown, but a couple of yards. In this climate, that's an enormous win. And it bodes well for 2012.

    That said, you're absolutely correct to extrapolate nationally the fact that, despite the outrage exhibited against Walker's blatant attacks on unions, many GOPer voters stayed home and voted GOP.

    I truly believe that many here simply do not appreciate what the President is up against.

    The big corporations (US Chamber of Commerce) hate him, and have the purse to hold us all hostage. The financial sector, drunk on (reckless) freedom, hates him, and will fight Warren and her ilk to their last dollar. 30-40% of Americans listen to talk radio and watch Fox News and hate him for any number of nonsensical reasons.

    His "vast" Democratic majorities were NOT vast progressive majorities - not even close. At the height of Pelosi's power, the House had more pro-life members than pro-choice. Think about that.

    So many on the left wanted Superman. There is no Superman.  What there is is Wisconsin. Hard work and passion cutting through the incessant propaganda of the right-wing, big money network. The change was at the margins - ALL CHANGE is at the margins, absent a major humanitarian catastrophe. Health care was a change at the margins that will become a greater and greater change for the better if the Democrats hold.

    •  I respect you but what I expect is that (0+ / 0-)

      he do like Wisconsin did, leave it all on the road.  It isn't always win or lose it is how much skin is in the game.

      I realize what he is  up against, in fact people pull for the underdog, even when he loses a round, what they are cheering for is not him being knocked down, but the fact that  he gets back up, brushes himself off and goes at it again.

      People aren't mad because Obama didn't win a bunch of negotiations, they seem to be mad because they don't feel he was ever negotiating for what they wanted.  I see the complaints over and over again.

      This diary though is trollish with its "Progressives lost," meme.  Democrats won 2 out of 6 fights.  If this was only progressives in 6 red districts, there wouldn't have been a battle at all.

      If you think education is expensive, wait until you see how much stupid costs

      by Sychotic1 on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:44:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "There is no Superman." (0+ / 0-)

      Excellent thought. The bully pulpit argument is nonsense. The President has done a great deal considering what he is working with.

      All I wish is that progressive on sites like this one would be as understanding of the President's circumstances as they are of dems in Wisconsin.

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 08:10:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't recc, he's trolling. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      'Progressives' had no separate agenda in Wisconsin last night than any other Democrats.  Democrats wanted to win those seats, not just 'progressives'.  He's doing nothing more than attempting to drive divisive wedges in between sections of the party.

  •  And in Wisconsin, we can defeat olsen then! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, Ezekial 23 20

    I don't want to repost what I have shared at another thread though.

    If you are concerned about future of public ed and want to help defeat olsen when his term is up, please look at video in my comment in this thread:

  •  Considering the massive Koch $$, it IS a victory. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ezekial 23 20

    There's just a lot of dumb fucking people that progressives have to reach over that.  And mealy mouthed "bipartisanship" only make that job harder.

    Obama is "a good man" to many democrats like Bush was "a good man" to republicans.

    by The Dead Man on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 07:05:31 AM PDT

  •  I just realized why this is complete trollery. (0+ / 0-)
    Notice that Kos and all of the other progressives just got beat in Wisconsin.

    Whether you want to claim loss or victory, there is no 'progressives' 'won or lost' in Wisconsin.

    Democrats won or lost in Wisconsin.

    All (real) Democrats wanted to win those seats, not simply 'progressives'.  So if you're trying to paint a 'progressives lost' meme, you're deliberately trolling.  There was no separate 'progressive agenda' in Wisconsin last night, just the Democratic one.  This is a purely nonsensical divisive wedge diary, attempting to split off one segment of the Democratic party and proclaim it a failure, when the actual goals to be won were the same across the entire party.

  •  Unfortunate choice of target (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Common Cents

    to attack, CC.  

    But look- last November showed where we get with the centrist-y m.o.  The centrists are getting voted out after desperately trying to appease and bargain.

    It's not the method, it's that they're all about trying to defend and restore an economic status quo of 2007 or 2008, best as they can.  Which on the Right and the Left and now in the Center is increasingly felt to no longer be worth the money and the effort to do.  Everyone senses this.  The question is what we are going to do as a country.  

    Wisconsin is a smaller scale picture of what happens- it's frontrunning the country's general picture.  The centrist Democrats who controlled the state legislature and governor office (who had become pretty do-nothing and afraid, but that's redundant) got voted out last November.  For Republicans.  And these Republicans went too fast, or far enough (we don't know).    And the pushback came in the form of a more Left/liberal set of Democrats, politicians and base.

    Now, that has indeed fallen short of getting a blocking majority- but by a very small margin.  The voters of Wisconsin apparently want/need their Republicans to do a little more of something.  I don't know what that is.  But Democrats are within one accident, one special election or further recall election, of shutting the Republican game down.  So it's still a little early.  But it's not hard to see that the next regular election will see Wisconsin voters stalemating their Republicans fully.

    It's a standard sequence of government and the process of reform in American politics: centrist/conservative Democrats get defeated  and replaced by Republicans, Republicans get defeated and replaced by moderate/liberal (aka progressive) Democrats.  

    We're definitely losing more centrist/conservaDem seats in Congress and probably at the state level to Republicans in 2012.  Just look at the lot of them jumping before they get pushed/thrown out- Boren, Ross, Shuler, Donnelly, Webb, Conrad.  Probably Ben Nelson.  And prospects aren't good for Tester, Bob Nelson, McCaskill, Manchin, Almire, Nicky Rahall.  2012 is going to almost fully complete the wipeout of centrists and conservaDems that 2010 started.  

    Whether the 'centrists' or the 'progressives' here are right doesn't really matter.  The centrist federal politicians are in for near-extinction next year, that's just fate.  They served a particular role of maintaining and trying to recover the economic status quo in all its messiness and deficiencies.  The country is finally willing to walk, if not run, away from it as too defective and inadequate.  Economic status quo is a sinking ship, politically.

    The question is whether Obama realizes this and decides to at least try to walk away from his record and identity tied to trying to defend or maintain that status quo.  Romney only needs to say "I am real economic change, he's the economic past" at this point to win.  The Center doesn't hold.  Obama can't win by going Right.  Maybe he can't win at all, to be frank.  But at least he can get a long term moral victory and recover in reputation if he goes Left.  Aka progressive.

    •  Excellent post, but that was not my point. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      My point was that President Obama is the only one that gets nailed without any acknowledgement of the circumstances he faces. Meanwhile every excuse is made for what happened in Wisconsin.

      It makes no sense. Progressives are not very charitable to the President, but when they ask for a lot of money from their backers and then don't get it done (get a majority) we get spin about how it was always a tough road and they did their best.

      Why can't they look at what the President does and say "he did the best he could with what he had,"?

      by Common Cents on Wed Aug 10, 2011 at 02:52:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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