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As the protests rocking Israel entered their fourth week, geopolitical issues began to be heard and seen with much more force in tonight's rallies, signaling a shift that could portend inclusion of Palestinian issues into the protests by organizers in the foreseeable future (something that has yet to happen in an "official" capacity).

Tonight's protests in Israel, which were held in "peripheral" towns and communities outside of the major centers of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, not only drew significant numbers, but drew a diversity of voices – voices that brought up Palestinian issues along with the oft-heard social justice/economic demands.

pa
Protesters in Jaffo add their voices to the movement. Photo by Moti Kimchi.

To give an indication of the numbers, 15,000 people crowded Afula's streets, a town with a population of only 40,000. Large numbers were seen in the cities of Haifa (30.000) and Beer Sheva (15,000), while thousands turned out in smaller towns, including the Arab town of Nazareth.

But most significant, in my mind, was not the massive numbers, but the diversity of voices included in these rallies, particularly the voices of Israeli-Arabs. Writes Dimi Reider at +972 Magazine:

Feminist Arab-Jewish blogger Lihi Yona posted on Facebook after attending one of the protests: “I’m just back form the Haifa demo… if I may, this was the most exciting experience I had in my life. The number of Arab women and men speaking to huge applause from the crowd made me believe there will be a just, equitable state here some day. [Author] Sami Michael, who chose to speak in both Arabic and Hebrew, and the Arab singer – and more importantly, the masses that rocked to that singer’s music – made this night the most amazing experience I ever had.”

“For years, I would feel the need to correct people when they’d say Haifa was a mixed city,” Yona told +972. “I would feel the need to point out that it’s not mixed, that it’s segregated. And tonight it really was an integrated city… there were more Arab speakers than Jews and each time someone would say, in Arabic, “Arabs and Jews,” the crowd understood and cheered them on.”

These protests, which followed last week's historic protests, in which 300,000 (5% of Israel's population) filled the streets, were strategically planned to awaken and include prominently Israelis who live in "peripheral" areas, including those from populations that are in lower income areas and working class towns.

The result was not only stirring, but dynamic as well.

Live photos from Protest in Beer Sheva
In Beer Sheva, a sign reads "Social Justice for the Palestinians, Too."

As Noam Sheizaf and Mairav Zonszein wrote in Dissent Magazine today, there is no denying that the Arab-Israeli conflict must enter the discussion as these protests expand if protesters are to achieve true social justice in Israel:

The protesters’ call on the government to assume responsibility for the welfare of all its citizens necessarily calls attention not only to the marginalized lower and middle classes, but also to Palestinian citizens’ relations with the state—not to mention those Palestinians who are subject to Israeli control but are not even citizens. As the residents of the Tel Aviv tent camp are learning, without addressing those questions, social justice cannot be re-imagined or expanded.

Tonight, for the first time at these protests, a Palestinian woman got up to speak in Beer Sheva and demanded that Israel recognize the legitimacy of often-demolished Bedouin villages.

The crowd's response?

Cheers!

Live photos from Protest in Beer Sheva
Residents gaze upon protesters in Beer Sheva.

As protest leaders plan for a 1,000,000 citizen rally on September 3, it is not just the numbers which are growing.

The movement may be expanding to include geopolitical issues as well. It may be expanding to include social justice not just for all Israelis, but for all those under Israel's auspices in the West Bank. It's important to note that this has not happened yet, and may not happen in the near term (if at all).

Regardless, it's an auspicious time, indeed.

---------------------------------------
Follow me on Twitter @David_EHG
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Originally posted to David Harris-Gershon (The Troubadour) on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 08:33 PM PDT.

Also republished by Eyes on Egypt and the Region, Adalah — A Just Middle East, and Writing by David Harris Gershon.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Could the government fall? (8+ / 0-)

    I don't know much of anything about Israel, heck I spell the name of the country wrong half the time.

    I just know I don't like that dude, Netanyahoo.

    •  In short: yes. (13+ / 0-)

      Given the parliamentary system, governments are not stable in Israel. Governments (such as Netanyahu's) must form a coalition of at least 60 (of 120) Knesset members.

      If, at any point, parties pull out of the coalition for any reason, and the number in the coalition goes below the magic number 60, the government falls and new elections are called.

      At this stage, nobody is threatening to leave the coalition. But it's a tense time in Israel.

      I'm "THE" Troubadour," and not "Troubadour" without the article. We're different people here at DK :)

      by David Harris Gershon on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 08:45:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is there anybody less crazy... (4+ / 0-)

        (or more crazy) who is positioned to take his place?

        •  Absolutely, though it's likely way too early (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PeterHug, Floande, yaque, davehouck, koNko

          to get into such speculation.

          Particularly given this: the massive movement overwhelming the country right now is not championing (for the most part) any current prominent leaders.

          I'm "THE" Troubadour," and not "Troubadour" without the article. We're different people here at DK :)

          by David Harris Gershon on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 08:53:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, but...any good ambitious leader.... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            yaque

            will see these manifestations as a sign of weakness and try to capitalize on them.  

          •  But it seems (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            yaque, Tamar

            that Bibi might have to restructure the coalition, do you think?  That is, if he intends to deal with the protesters.  At the very least, the question of continued financial support of the settlements may come up, since the economic issues started with housing...

            Just wondering out loud.

            When shit happens, you get fertilized.

            by ramara on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:21:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't see any evidence for it (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              greatdarkspot, yaque

              So far the coalition partners are sticking with him. And unless one of them bolts, he stays in power for another 2 1/2 years.

              Fact: The decisions on housing in Israel are political. And the coalition partners like Israel Our Home, Jewish Home, Shas, and United Torah Judaism have been very good at getting housing for their constituents. They have no real incentive to leave. This is the result of Israel being more socialist than any country in Europe. The only real way to solve this problem for the long run is LESS government control over land.

              •  Another problem (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                greatdarkspot, yaque

                is that it doesn't just take a member of the coalition to bolt, it takes an affirmative 61 votes against the government on a specific question to call a new election. No Jewish party will vote in favor of a vote of no-confidence by an Arab party. No party from the Right will vote in favor of a vote of no-confidence from the Left, and vice versa.  

            •  Actually this may result in more construction (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              greatdarkspot, yaque

              in settlements. MK Katz of National Union spoke at a rally last week and said that the housing crisis can be solved through more construction over the Green Line. Expect to hear that from government ministers soon.

              •  I believe it goes a lot deeper than this (0+ / 0-)

                simplistic explanation of yours....

                try something like this.....

                http://www.truth-out.org/...

                Please do not tell me you are involved by being a member of DK4....really get involved...... http://october2011.org/frontpage.....The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

                by Mindmover on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 10:54:34 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Obviously more settlements aren't going to solve (0+ / 0-)

                  any problems, but he is right that we will hear this from the government.

                  I refuse to represent my political beliefs using numbers. It isn't accurate, nor is it helpful. But I'm around a -10 on both scales.

                  by AoT on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 08:32:35 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I believe the people are finally (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Tamar

                    starting to realize that the problem is there own government, not the Palestinians or any other faction/group that has been castigated by the corrupt ruling class and there paid off politicians....

                    Please do not tell me you are involved by being a member of DK4....really get involved...... http://october2011.org/frontpage.....The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

                    by Mindmover on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 11:58:28 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think that people around the world are starting (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Mindmover

                      to realize that the governments we have to a real, just, better world, and that we need to stop supporting these corrupt governments that treat us and other like crap.

                      I refuse to represent my political beliefs using numbers. It isn't accurate, nor is it helpful. But I'm around a -10 on both scales.

                      by AoT on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 12:58:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  and AMEN, nt (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        AoT

                        Please do not tell me you are involved by being a member of DK4....really get involved...... http://october2011.org/frontpage.....The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

                        by Mindmover on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 01:00:59 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                •  Israel isn't really Neoliberal (0+ / 0-)

                  it is far too socialist, as I've explained in other comments.

                  •  1st, I have never said Israel is neo-lib, (0+ / 0-)

                    2nd, they are more right wing fascist than they are socialist

                    3rd, your simplistic statement should be called out for what it is.....simplistic thinking.....

                    if you can be here, we are having a real party and it ain't gonna be with tea....

                    http://october2011.org/...

                    Please do not tell me you are involved by being a member of DK4....really get involved...... http://october2011.org/frontpage.....The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

                    by Mindmover on Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 09:23:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Definitely NOT fascist (0+ / 0-)

                      talk about simplistic thinking. Or are you Jonah Goldberg who calls everything fascist.

                      The fact is, the Israeli government itself owns or controls almost all land in Israel. That alone puts it to the left of every elected official in the United States. It has an excellent universal health care system, on a model similar to  that of France. Did Mussolini or Franco every provide such?

                      And Israel lacks the bands of thugs that terrorize political opponents. Just look at the huge protests taking place. Mussolini would have sent his blackshirts to terrorize the protesters. Syria is much more like Fascist Italy today.

  •  It's good to see. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Troubadour, davehouck, Tamar

    The world is waiting to see how the movement chooses to handle the palestinian conflict. Now perhaps the world can throw more support behind this movement.

    I don't expect the government to actually concede anything on Palestine, though. I hope I'm just being too cynical, but the best we can expect is that this event will serve to unite Palestinians and Jews in a way that nothing has before, thus perhaps curtailing some of the violence (if the sentiment can penetrate to the extremes of both the Israeli military and Hamas)..

    I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. ||@totushek on twitter

    by tote on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 08:48:06 PM PDT

  •  To all who say there is no democracy... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    charliehall2, oregonj, Corwin Weber

    in Israel, it appears you are mistaken.  This is something that Israelis care about, social justice, as attested to by the size of the demonstrations.  Places where this is possible and manifested are few and far between.

    If only we could see something similar in the societies of its adversaries, where people demonstrate for social justice for minorities, then perhaps the prospects for peace would increase.

    Hope you understand what I said, but if not, it may not be my inarticulation, but your predisposition.

    by citizen53 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:21:37 PM PDT

    •  I'm waiting (0+ / 0-)

      for the Sukkot party.

      When shit happens, you get fertilized.

      by ramara on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:23:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well there are such demonstrations in Syria (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greatdarkspot, yaque, Corwin Weber

      and the reaction of the government there is machine guns. The reaction of the government of Israel is to wait for the next election. I know which one is preferable!

      •  Syria did not involve social justice... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, Corwin Weber

        for minorities, but were against repressive regimes.  This is also true in Egypt and elsewhere.  Have seen little in the way of demonstrations for the rights of people in their societies subject to discrimination.

        Hope you understand what I said, but if not, it may not be my inarticulation, but your predisposition.

        by citizen53 on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:49:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then you would do well to remove (2+ / 0-)

          your own ideological blinders. There have been numerous demonstrations in Egypt standing up for a range of communities. As for Syria, where the minority happens to be in power, there is indeed a sectarian dimension to the protests, with appeals for social/economic/representative justice for the majority community as well as others.

          Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

          by angry marmot on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 10:05:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah...like the one Friday in Egypt... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Corwin Weber, JNEREBEL

            by a coalition of Coptic Christians, Egyptian secularists and other Egyptian liberals that flopped badly.

            http://www.almasryalyoum.com/...

            Contrasted to the July 29 protest where the ultraconservatives and Islamist generated tens of thousands.

            http://www.google.com/...

            The July 29th protest was certainly not for social justice for minorities.

            And if you insist that Syria is about minority rights, rather than to oppose the Assad dictatorship, then I suggest you are the one wearing blinders.

            Hope you understand what I said, but if not, it may not be my inarticulation, but your predisposition.

            by citizen53 on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 10:53:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Wow (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davehouck, capelza, Tamar

    There haven't been many diaries here that brought tears to my eyes, but this one did.  Funny how truth and beauty can make you cry.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 09:29:44 PM PDT

  •  Things much more complicated than you think (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    greatdarkspot, Corwin Weber

    http://english.themarker.com/...

    ---

    It seems that high land prices are essential to a significant part of the Israeli economy. Here in New York City, housing prices dropped 25% as a result of the 2008 bust and it helped people like me to buy a house that we would never have been able to afford otherwise. But the effect on the city government was devastating, with massive budget cuts and significant layoffs. Tel Aviv is a lot like New York.

  •  Oh wow (10+ / 0-)
    Tonight, for the first time at these protests, a Palestinian woman got up to speak in Beer Sheva and demanded that Israel recognize the legitimacy of often-demolished Bedouin villages.

    The crowd's response?

    Cheers!

    This made me cry.  Just amazing.  

    I'd rather die than give you control ~ Trent Reznor

    by JustJennifer on Sat Aug 13, 2011 at 11:44:59 PM PDT

  •  i'm afraid to exhale (4+ / 0-)

    but resolution might come from the people. I can't think of a better way for it to happen.

    "In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer."- Albert Camus

    by valadon on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 12:09:15 AM PDT

  •  Just as Palestinian elites maneuver (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stargaze, Fire bad tree pretty

    to have their state recognized by the United Nations, the movement on the streets puts the one-state solution back on the table, and in a big way.

    Albert Einstein would be proud of these post-Zionist Israelis, doing the right thing -- sixty-odd years late!

    Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
    ¡Boycott Arizona!

    by litho on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 05:13:47 AM PDT

    •  Looking at the map (0+ / 0-)

      I'm hoping for a 1-state solution (1 person, 1 vote), because I can't see how a 2-state can work.

      The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

      by stargaze on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 11:25:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Israel already has..... (5+ / 0-)

        ....one person one vote.  In fact they're notorious for the result.  What you claim to want has nothing whatsoever to do with one state or two.... unless you're saying that the only way the Palestinians are going to endorse democracy is if they're part of Israel?  Somehow I don't think that's what you intend to say.....

        •  It's my understanding (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litho, Florida Democrat, weasel

          that Jewish citizens of Israel have different rights than citizens of other ethnicities (religions?). I suppose I meant "equal rights irrespective of religion or ethnicity", which is a broader no-discrimination statement than "1 person, 1 vote".

          The "facts on the ground" are currently such that it would be hard to make a viable Palestinian state, or a Jewish state truely separated from a Palestinian state, because of Jewish settlements and roads and difficulties is separating the water rights situation between 2 states with complicated borders. Security/police matters would also be problematical.  

          The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

          by stargaze on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 07:32:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's a common understanding. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Paul in Berkeley, leftynyc, JNEREBEL

            This does not make it a correct one.  Non-Jewish citizens of Israel have the same rights as anyone else.

            •  30+ Jewish-only laws (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              stargaze

              You are factually wrong on this, Corwin. Here's a great recent video on the subject and its relevance to the current upheaval.

              http://www.youtube.com/...

              •  Name them. (0+ / 0-)

                I've seen the various lists.  They don't stand up to scrutiny.  If you have to take things out of context to make your point, you've already lost the argument.

                •  How have I taken things out of context? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  stargaze

                  Name them.

                  My personal recollection is not proof of anything. I could stomp you the same way on many subjects. However, I do know a few:

                  * Land control rights given to Jewish-only organizations (JNF)
                  * Immigration laws discriminatory in favor of Jews, and specifically against former Palestinian inhabitants.
                  * Education laws teaching Jewish-centric and not allowing alternative views, even in Arab townships (and until very recently) permitting discrimination against Sephardi and Ethiopian Jews.
                  * Granting new municipalities: completely discriminatory in practice.
                  * Housing construction permit laws, completely discriminatory.
                  * Allowing open discrimination legally through residential councils (which would be illegal in this country and most civilized world)
                  * Arabs citizens of Israel do not have a right to take up residence in settlements in the WB, Jews are specifically protected in doing so, even though it's all illegal under International law.

                  If you really are concerned, there are NGOs who do keep much closer track on this.

                  Here's a couple of lists:
                  http://itisapartheid.org/...
                  http://toronto.saia.ca/...

                  They don't stand up to scrutiny.

                  Sure, of course they don't from your point of view.

                  However, there is a very simple definition of discrimination that can be measured both in word and in examination of the evidence. When your ethnicity makes or breaks your housing/immigration/gun ownership/school funding case, that is discrimination or racism. I have a simple rule myself: would they be in any way tolerated here in the US or would any serious self-respecting liberal on DK defend them if they were enacted in New York or California?

                  I don't think so.

                  •  Again.... (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    leftynyc, Red Sox, JNEREBEL

                    ....you're missing a few points here:

                    * Land control rights given to Jewish-only organizations (JNF)

                    Israel is hardly the only country that has state ownership and/or control of most land.

                    * Immigration laws discriminatory in favor of Jews, and specifically against former Palestinian inhabitants.

                    Israel is also not the only nation in the world that gives immigration preference to a particular ethnic group.  (Starting to see a pattern here?)

                    * Education laws teaching Jewish-centric and not allowing alternative views, even in Arab townships (and until very recently) permitting discrimination against Sephardi and Ethiopian Jews.

                    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'Jewish-centric' here.  The idea that Jews are native to the region?  I'll have to give on that one.... although I don't see a problem.

                    * Granting new municipalities: completely discriminatory in practice.

                    ...states don't have the right to form new towns and cities.  Gotcha.

                    * Housing construction permit laws, completely discriminatory.

                    So you claim.  Given that said laws are also routinely ignored by any number of 'oppressed' ethnic groups.... think we're going to have to call this one a wash.

                    * Allowing open discrimination legally through residential councils (which would be illegal in this country and most civilized world)

                    Two words:  Gated communities.

                    * Arabs citizens of Israel do not have a right to take up residence in settlements in the WB, Jews are specifically protected in doing so, even though it's all illegal under International law.

                    And those settlements will be abandoned in any peace plan.... just like all of the others have been.  Again, we're going to have to call this one a bit of a wash.

                    Got anything, gee, I dunno.... relevant?

                    •  "Israel is also not the only nation ..." (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Florida Democrat

                      USA government-for-the-rich also does a lot of stuff that is systemic class & racial discrimination, and I protest that. I wish there was more mass protesting in USA, it will be the only way to claw back & force the top 1% to pay their fair share.

                      I don't want my tax money to go to fun Military Industrial Complex or Prinson Industrial Complex ... in USA or in Israel.

                      The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

                      by stargaze on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 06:28:46 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  wow, you sure have your excuses lined up... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      stargaze

                      No my friend, I can take anybody in this country to court if he/she denied me a publicly available good or service (like residence) based on my ethnicity.

                      Housing discrimination based on your race, color, national origin, religion, sex, family status, or disability is illegal by federal law. If you have been trying to buy or rent a home or apartment and you believe your rights have been violated, you can file a fair housing complaint.

                      You know, I find it almost comical that die hard Israel supporters have to play dumb and use torturous logic at the same time. JNF is not the state, which is exactly why Israel hides behind it when it suits its purposes, for example for its discrimination.

                      Granting municipalities to Arab versus Jewish petitioners, there's been just 4 Arab, but hundreds of Jewish. Are you seriously saying you didn't understand this one?

                      Just because unjust laws may be broken (and those "violators" punished), doesn't mean these laws don't exist. If you outlaw abortion, it will continue to happen anyway, just a lot more painful and unjust for the women. It's not "a wash" at all, don't be silly.

                      And those settlements will be abandoned in any peace plan.... just like all of the others have been.

                      So, it's OK to be openly racist in the mean time? It's already been decades!

                      Got anything, gee, I dunno.... relevant?

                      Yea. OK. Nothing I said was "relevant"! Now you know why so many people find arguing with ideological zealots a waste of time.

                      Your original statement which I now find willfully ignorant was this:

                      Non-Jewish citizens of Israel have the same rights as anyone else.

                      I'll let the readers read for themselves.

                      I am just glad this is here for people to see and point to in the future.

                  •  bears repeating (0+ / 0-)
                    When your ethnicity makes or breaks your housing/immigration/gun ownership/school funding case, that is discrimination or racism.

                    This also happens in USA, even when it's technically illegal. Structural discrimination & all that. (Both class & racial discrimination.)

                    The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

                    by stargaze on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 06:23:11 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  Thank you for this link. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Florida Democrat

                I have watched & will probably watch again to take notes. It's a good video article.

                The boss needs you, you don't need him. -- France general strike, May 1968

                by stargaze on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 06:18:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Of course, you're the one (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Corwin Weber, leftynyc, Red Sox, JNEREBEL

      who refers to Zionists as having "guts hanging from their teeth."

      In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

      by Paul in Berkeley on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 10:18:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So, Paul, how would YOU describe (0+ / 0-)

        a guy who writes things like this:

        It is absolutely clear that the first step is the destruction of Arafat's regime and the annexation of Judea, Samaria and Gaza. The Arabs must be led to understand that these lands are an inseparable part of the Jewish state forever.

        Or this:

        Meanwhile, any attempts on the part of the Arabs to carry out sabotage or terrorist activity must be immediately suppressed in the most brutal way. It is possible, for example, to implement a suggestion by Harvard Professor Alan Derschowitz, an American liberal lawyer. With slight modification, it works as follows: Israel issues a warning that, in a response to any terrorist attack, she will immediately completely level an Arab village or settlement, randomly chosen by a computer from a published list. The essence of the idea is to make the Arabs completely responsible for their own fate, and to make it clear that terrorism will not be merely tolerated, but will be harshly punished. Along with the world community, the Arabs will know precisely what will result if they attack Jews. The use of a computer to select the place of the Israeli response will put the Arabs and the Jews on a level footing. The Jews do not know where the terrorists will strike, and the Arabs will not know which one of their villages or settlements will be erased in retaliation. The word "erased" very precisely reflects the force of Israel's response. The Arabs residing there will be evicted without compensation, all houses and buildings completely demolished, and the settlement itself, with the help of bulldozers and any other necessary equipment, will be leveled into a large field.

        Or this:

        Israel must make clear to the world community that, if a decision cannot be made within 3 to 5 years to establish a state for the Palestinian Arabs in some viable location, she will be forced to start the forced expulsion of Arabs into Jordan and the Sinai....

        Needless to say, forceful resettlement will not be a pleasant spectacle... Clearly, in such a situation the number of potential casualties will be significantly greater than during an organized and planned transfer, one unaccompanied by war.

        Is he a Zionist?  Is he bloodthirsty?

        Are all Zionists bloodthirsty?  Did I ever make the claim they are?

        Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
        ¡Boycott Arizona!

        by litho on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 03:56:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He probably gargles (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JNEREBEL, Paul in Berkeley

          with Gentile blood, and uses the muscle fibers of Gentile tendons to floss. Then he goes and steals their organs, which he sells to control the banks and Hollywood. He then goes to sleep under a duvet made of $100 bills, stuffed with bald eagle feathers.

          Unapologetic Obama supporter.

          by Red Sox on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 07:24:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sure, calling out a bigot (0+ / 0-)

            is exactly the same as engaging in classic antisemitism.

            That is, if your objective is to defend any behavior, by any Jew, no matter how reprehensible.

            And that in fact, my friend, is exactly what this whole antisemitism discussion at dailykos is all about.  Can Jews ever be criticized, by anyone?

            Team Shalom seems to think not...

            Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
            ¡Boycott Arizona!

            by litho on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 07:32:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Jews can certainly be criticized (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JNEREBEL, Paul in Berkeley

              and many of them (Joe Lieberman, Eric Cantor, Bibi, Avigdor Lieberman, etc. etc.) richly deserve it. But being bloodthirsty, ignorant, or what have you isn't limited to or emblematic of Zionism, despite your desire to paint it otherwise.

              To conflate this with the rich pattern of anti-Semitism that some of your ideological bedfellows have engaged in here on numerous occasion either requires one to be ignorant of the comments made, to turn a blind eye to them willfully, or to countenance them

              Unapologetic Obama supporter.

              by Red Sox on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 08:09:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You conflated it (0+ / 0-)

                with antisemitism, not me.  And my original "guts from their teeth" quote, you should recall, was stated in the negative -- this one, I said, is not that kind of Zionist.

                With the quotes above, it stands clearly proven that the "guts from their teeth" Zionist clearly exists.  Rightwing Zionists, like many of Team Shalom, should welcome the fact they can be clearly distinguished from the likes of Shusteff, a reprehensible thinker by anyone's standard.

                Including yours, I would hope...

                Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
                ¡Boycott Arizona!

                by litho on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 08:28:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Rightwingers suck in toto (0+ / 0-)

                  You're the one with the Zionist obsession. It's like you have something to prove...

                  Unapologetic Obama supporter.

                  by Red Sox on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 08:41:51 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I haven't seen you (0+ / 0-)

                    disassociate yourself from Shusteff.  All you've done is thrown a specious charge of antisemitism at me for having criticized him.

                    So, here's your opportunity.  Reject him, by name and by policy.  Recognize that it's folks like him who push Israel to continue occupying the territories, and who stand in the way of a two-state solution.

                    It shouldn't be hard.  You've already said rightwingers suck.  So why did you defend him?  And in such an ugly way?

                    Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
                    ¡Boycott Arizona!

                    by litho on Mon Aug 15, 2011 at 11:13:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you for this update David (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    capelza
  •  Man, you are doing a great job. (5+ / 0-)

    Not long ago it was impossible to publish a diary o I/P issues without it turning into hopeless flame war.

    Please, keep at it. We need dialogue and debate.

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 09:23:08 AM PDT

  •  And just like that, in the wink of an eye (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Corwin Weber, JNEREBEL

    Syria recedes from view.

    In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

    by Paul in Berkeley on Sun Aug 14, 2011 at 10:19:20 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for the diary. T'ed and R'ed. (n/t) (0+ / 0-)

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