Skip to main content

This isn't going to be a long diary.  Basically, I have to get this off my chest before I start head-desking again.

I've been a Kossack since 2003.  And I love this site unabashedly.  Even though sometimes I get enraged at our most common subject matter, i.e., the depredations and fuckups of the Republican Party.  But I've never had a more difficult time reading it than lately... and it all has to do with the Hide Ratings.

  1. I have never HR'd anyone.  Tempted a few times, but I just don't feel the need to suppress someone's thoughts.  Doesn't mean I have to agree, or listen further.
  2. Way, way too many posts lately have been overwhelmed by snit-fits over who's HR'ing who and why.  I'm having trouble finding comments on the original post, because they get pushed down by dozens or hundreds of comments, starting at the tip jar or just below, about HR's.  Often there are many more comments about the HR'ing than the topic of the post.  Everything is becoming tl;dr on that basis alone.
  3. I feel like I'm back in my intense D&D days, dealing with a cadre of rules lawyers.  Dozens of people are citing technicalities, interpreting justifications, and otherwise splitting hairs about the damn HR's.  At least back then, the donuts were edible.
Here's a thought: If you really don't like a post, enough that you have to comment on it, why not... comment?  Or PM?  Or even call it to the attention of a mod?  Because all this sound and fury signifying nothing, over a bunch of mouse clicks, is past comic, past tragic, working on pathetic.

I guess what I'm calling for is, if not the abolition of the HR system, at least a lot more self-control when invoking it.  dKos is becoming clogged with hissy fits over this, and I truly believe It Is Getting In The Way.

If someone is truly offensive, well, that's an issue for the mods.  If someone is factually wrong, well, cite facts to counter what's wrong.  If someone mentions something in dubious taste, or disagrees with you, or is just being an idiot, or doesn't like someone you like, or or or or or... please think before you start an HR flame-war that does nothing except piss off everybody involved and waste a lot of time when you could be doing something interesting/useful/fun.

No one's mind will be changed, no one's anger will magically go away, and the flame-war itself is gonna sit on the servers as a permanent record of That Time When You And A Colleague Or Three Argued Over Political Correctness And Embarrassed Everybody In The Meeting Hall And Feelings Were Bitter For Weeks Afterward And Some Of The People Started Posting Recipes Just To Distract Everyone But It Turned Into A Food Fight And Now The Walls Are Caked With, Well, Cake And The Whole Place Smells Of Vanilla And Beer And Anger And Regret And Nobody Wants To Clean Up Until The Other Guy Starts To Damn Clean Up And We're All Gonna Piss Off The Landlord And Nobody's Gonna Want To Join The Club And I've Got A Fucking Headache And The Kids Won't Shut Up And Go To Sleep.

Think of the children, won't you?  Thanks.

< /.02 >

Poll

In the last week, I have HR'd someone:

66%72 votes
11%12 votes
7%8 votes
0%1 votes
5%6 votes
2%3 votes
2%3 votes
3%4 votes

| 109 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (32+ / 0-)

    -----
    Tom Smith Online
    Music In Every Style... Except Dull
    I want a leader who shoots for the moon. The last time we had one, we got to the moon.

    by filkertom on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 06:04:10 AM PDT

  •  The Overwhelming Majority (32+ / 0-)

    And I mean...99%+ of diaries here never have a single HR anywhere from top to bottom.  Typically the ones that attract a lot of HRs were designed to stir shit in the first place.

    Issue Diaries? Action Diaries? Zero HRs.  Ever.

    Meta + Pie + Factionalism = Fresh Donut Light On

    The HRs are a symptom, not the problem.

  •  Never liked donuts. (3+ / 0-)

    too sweet, too much sugar. If I need to snack, there are far better choices. An orange, apple, grapes, cherries,
    Hell, a pizza slice would be better.

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 06:11:19 AM PDT

  •  You can collapse an entire thread (14+ / 0-)

    If it seems to be getting out of hand.  Clicking on that triangle in the upper left corner collapses a single comment.  Clicking on it while pressing ctrl (if running Windows) collapses all the comments below it as well.

    Shrinking a sub-thread that seems to be devolving into a HR-fest may make it easier for you to read the comments.

  •  The old 1-4 ratings system worked well... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crashing Vor, Cedwyn, banger, BachFan, denise b

    ...or so I thought.  Seems like it should be simple enough to re-establish.

    The real problem with expressing disapproval on the site is that there is no gradation, and other than commenting, there's no way to express disapproval without HRs.  Disapproving comments take up space and time; being able to post a "1" or "2" is quicker.

    (Then again, I seem to remember that most people gave either 1s or 4s anyway, so maybe the 2s and 3s were, after all, moot...)

    We reach for the stars with shaking hands in bare-knuckle times.

    by TheOrchid on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 06:22:06 AM PDT

  •  I think there's a simple fix to that.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TooFolkGR

    ...or at least it seems simple to me, not knowing all of the technical details about it.

    There should be an option in the settings to make that little triangle button next to a comment (the one that expands and collapses it) be able to collapse the entire thread of replies underneath it—so when you see a meta thread about HRs, just one click will make it all collapse into a couple lines of text you don't have to scroll through.

    I'm sure elfling, ct, and the engineering crew have their hands full, but that's a feature that I'd like to see.

  •  I don't think it's any worse than it's (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rich in PA, dougymi, zhimbo

    ever been.  Granted, I've never been much for meta, so maybe that's why I've never thought it's a big deal.

  •  I think HRs are fetishized... (6+ / 0-)

    ...in the sense that we talk about them much more frequently than they're actually used.  I don't have a count, and I may be wrong, but my sense is that fewer comments are HRd in a 24-hour period nowadays than at most times in the 4+ years I have been here.  And most of them are comments so lousy that they don't have a single recommend.

    Personally I don't like the algorithm--I think any comment with at least X recs (make it 2 or 3 or whatever) should stand regardless of the number of HRs because the sign of a truly abusive opinion is not that many people hate it, it's that nobody supports it.  

    Let us resolutely study and implement the resolutions of the 46th Convention of the Democratic Party!

    by Rich in PA on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 06:33:00 AM PDT

  •  There are certain comments (12+ / 0-)

    that need to be dealt with -- if you've ever wandered into Black KOS or rserven's diaries on transgender issues, you'd see why. And I certainly don't want to see comments that promote violence, either against Democrats or Republicans, used as "evidence" that we're a "hate site" on the level of RedState or Free Republic. Same thing with comments or diaries that promote the election of a Republican on a site that has as its mission statement to elect Democrats.

    Yes, sometimes there's a bit of "piling on", but in those cases it can be cathartic in nature -- for example, there was a diary right after Meteor Blades' departure that made a reference to MB going to prison -- I think it got about 110 HRs before the dude got the BOJO (bony mojo, or banning); in that case the HRs were to reflect deep respect for MB plus sorrow at his departure.

    You say that it's an issue for the mods if a comment is truly offensive. While we have certain folks with administrator privileges, and others with front page privileges, we have no mods -- the members of the community are the mods. For a site this size, to have a certain group of people do nothing but patrol every diary looking for those out to sow dissention and ire, or simply just being an asshole, would be a full-time job in itself, as well as wearying on the psyche. I quit one site after being a mod for just three months, because the amount of jackassery was too much for me to handle without weeping into my pillow most nights; I'm a sensitive soul at heart, despite the iron exterior I try to maintain as my online persona. I can't imagine how MB did it for as long as he did.

    Now to try to end the wars we ask our gay and straight soldiers to fight. -- Chris Hayes

    by Cali Scribe on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 06:33:48 AM PDT

  •  Mods (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angry marmot, MKSinSA
    Or even call it to the attention of a mod?
    Dumb question perhaps - are there moderators now, since MB left?
  •  Terrorist fist-bump... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA, RunawayRose, Catte Nappe

    (bump!) to a fellow HR-pacifist.  

    I'm an asshole by first nature, so it's a difficult temptation at times.  I see it not just a mojo thing, though; it's a karma thing to me.  I feel good reccing people. I probably wouldn't come here for that.  I imagine them looking to see who recced their little post and going, "Oh!  Dumbo liked something I wrote!  How cool he and I both are!"

    And I just ignore being HRed.  It's easy for me -- I've been around a long time, and I'm totally awash in mojo.  But I can imagine how it must hurt and panic people who get HRed who are not used to it.

  •  The only thing (0+ / 0-)

    that has ever ended candidate flame wars around here has been:  that candidate losing at the ballot box or giving up efforts at election/reelection.

    The history of this place has been dominated by groups venting their resentments.  At Bush and the Daschle era foreign policy conservative Democrats in the beginning and many other conservative/Right-deferent targets since.

    This isn't necessarily wrong.  We're in the descent part of the partisan power cycle for Democrats.  The initiative and likely election victories are with the Republican side.  DK is, like the rest of the Party, essentially focussed on (a) a policy debate for what to do in 2015 or later, and (b) eliminating the particular obsolete conservatism and conservatives whose influences split and drag the Party down out of contention.

  •  Here's my idea (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn

    I think HR's should carry MORE weight. I think gathering a collection of HR's should cause one's mojo to decrease more rapidly.

    But I think issuing an HR should count against both the receiver and the sender.

    This way, it would cause people to consider carefully before firing their HR gun, but those who deserve it, would get it with both barrels.

    Sometimes there is so much writing, you need a bigger wall.

    by pucklady on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:11:31 AM PDT

    •  Interesting choice of words. (0+ / 0-)

      "HR gun".  "both barrels".

      That's the problem.  The HR has been allowed to degenerate into a POV shooter video game.  By design.

      We need a like/dislike button not a Rec/Hide button.  People can vote, free speech is allowed and if the ratio of likes to dislike reaches a threshold of 1:2 the comment is put in a moderation queue for a warning to a user IF it is somehow troll-like or abusive.

      We don't have that since it's much more advantageous to have the flame HR wars for the owner.
      He wants the mega-traffic but still likes to keep up the illusion that you can have "community" at this level.

      NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

      by Aeolos on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:31:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hard to read? Do you mean as in boring? (0+ / 0-)

    Much of the time, I don't focus on how many recs or donuts a comment has received, but recently I've opened diaries in which disagreements (often peripheral to the actual issue) made the comments section too boring to read.

    Has something at DK actually changed, or is it just me?

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

    by RJDixon74135 on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:22:54 AM PDT

    •  I wouldn't say "boring", but certainly tedious (0+ / 0-)

      That's really my original point: When you have to wade through a whole bunch of meta on HRs, it's aggravating.  And I end up not wanting to get to the comments on the actual diary.

      -----
      Tom Smith Online
      Music In Every Style... Except Dull
      I want a leader who shoots for the moon. The last time we had one, we got to the moon.

      by filkertom on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:40:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not wanting to put to fine a point on it, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angry marmot, Clem Yeobright, zhimbo

    since Hidden Comments are only visible because you chose to make them that way in your profile settings, why not just opt to hide the Hiddens?

    Veteran? Concerned family member of a veteran? Come join us in building a community at United Veterans of America.

    by DaNang65 on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:25:04 AM PDT

    •  Because I'll decide for myself, thanks (0+ / 0-)

      It is possible -- not necessarily true, but possible -- to look upon HRs as a form of censorship.  I'd much rather have the option to see what people think and decide for myself if I want to continue reading.

      -----
      Tom Smith Online
      Music In Every Style... Except Dull
      I want a leader who shoots for the moon. The last time we had one, we got to the moon.

      by filkertom on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:41:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Donuts are delicious. Have you ever (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    khereva

    had those donuts from Round Rock Donuts? The glaze is to die for, m'dear.

    I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

    by slinkerwink on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:32:26 AM PDT

    •  i blame slinkerwink (0+ / 0-)

      for making me want round rock donuts.

      One of my classes many years ago used to visit Ken's Donuts just north of the Drag. It was a small class, and if each student chipped in 50 cents, they could get a dozen glazed (which meant two apiece, and they gave me two for taking them out).

      We read a fair amount of Latin at Ken's.

      grieving citizen of the murdered Republic, unrepentant rebel against the Empire.

      by khereva on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:03:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  People being people want a means of expressing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zhimbo

    disapproval. Sometimes an HR is an appropriate means of expressing disapprovel, but way too often it is not, but people do it anyway because they are so deeply compelled to express disapproval, even if a comment doesn't meet HR standards.

    Adding a "disapprove" button, or maybe replacing HR with such a button would help. And I'm not sure hiding comments from public view is a good idea anyway.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:38:48 AM PDT

  •  Petty DK gangs are a plenty here. (2+ / 0-)

    Say anything about potential sex life changes of a CEO heading to prison, say anything remotely insensitive of the rotund, tell a blonde or female driver joke, use the words 'retard', 'bitch', 'cock gobbler', 'ho bag', 'slut', 'Polish', 'old ass', 'sissy', suggest someone has some object/stick in their pooper, say anything related to PMS, midol, or someone being on the rag, suggest someone growing some balls, wearing man pants, etc, etc, etc, you can be assured that someone will get so deeply hurt that they message all their buddies on facebook to troll rate you to the point of autoban.

    I've lurked for a while and seen this community ban some very good people over stupid, petty, tattle box reasons.  

    There is a reason this site seems dead lately.  You guys chase off anyone with an occasionally offensive sense of humor.  You guys would ban George Carlin on his first post at Daily Kos.  Think about that.  You guys have allowed the prudes to take over the site.  What a shame.  

    Is 'prude' on the hide on site list?  Go get your facebook gang and come get me.

    •  Let me get out the world's smallest violin (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zhimbo

      The internet is a pretty big place and I'm sure you can find somewhere else to exhibit your ignorance and lack of class.

      And you really don't know the first thing about what George Carlin was trying to say in his "Seven Dirty Words" bit.  Hint: it wasn't about using language to make derogatory comments.

      •  Woah. Have you listened to Carlin? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        banger

        Tell me Carlin would be welcome here.  Go on.  (waiting to burst into waves of tears and laughter)

        For you to mention Carlin in the same breath that you slam me for a lack of class, oh man, wow.  Wooooow.  

        I think my point has been made.

        •  Did you have a point? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zhimbo

          Other than expressing the desire to use sexist, homophobic and generally derogatory language?  

          •  Yeah, you missed the point. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Fiddler On A Hot Tin Roof

            Hint:  my point didn't involve a desire to use sexist, homophobic, derogatory language.

            And about Carlin...  Would he be welcome here (assuming under a different nick)?  I'll just go ahead and answer that.  NO.

            •  That was EXACTLY your point (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Darmok

              Read your own post.

              Yes, Carlin would be welcome here. he would get some HRs, because he pushes boundaries. But he'd also have tons of mojo.

              There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

              by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 09:08:30 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Some of us lived in a different age (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FoodChillinMFr

            before PC and the death of the left. We didn't get the attention of the oligarchs (and changed history) by being school-marms in the old days.

            Progressives have no power because they have no fucking power in their words or ideas or policies because everyone is afraid to offend someone. If you are an adult and willing to engage in public you need to have some courage. I don't, btw, like all of Carlin's stuff he can be very cruel and needlessly crude but I admire his art because he came closer to the truth than all but a few I know of in his profession.

            •  You think that's why libs have no power? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zhimbo

              Seriously?  It's all because society has moved to a point where racist/sexist/homophobic language is frowned upon?

              I think you and your friend here conflate two very different issues: the use of what we used to call cuss words - i.e., the "seven words you can't say on television" - and evolving standards about what is acceptable in terms of demeaning language.  

              Neither of those two different issues, however, really has anything to do with how effective progressives are in the public arena.  I don't think there is a simple answer to that, but a lot of it has to do with people concerned with holding onto their perceived slice of the pie.  None of that has to do with whether we use polite language.

              •  You guys chase out everyday people. (0+ / 0-)

                That's a problem.  You don't change people's opinions by forming an all holy clique.  That's what DK has become.  Accept it.

                •  Like you'd be in a position to know (0+ / 0-)

                  With your experience of less than a week.

                  And if this place chases out people who feel the need to express themselves as you seem to want to do, I think the general consensus is that isn't a bad thing.  You seem to have a difficult time understanding the distinction between crude language and demeaning language; the former is perfectly fine but the latter will cause problems for you.  If you had been around for more than a few days, maybe it would sink in.

                  In the meantime, find someplace else to annoy with your silliness if it bugs you so much.  Trust me; you won't be missed.

              •  I hardly think what you say I think (0+ / 0-)

                How silly do you think I am? Of course that isn't true! It's merely a sign of a deeper problem of why progressives have virtually no power and no following in our society. It isn't just the fact the oligarchs and their media ignore us--we allow them to ignore us. If you notice I used the magic word "power" as in

                 

                ...power in their words or ideas or policies because everyone is afraid to offend someone

                I've elsewhere given some very pointed reasons for the decline of the left in this country that has nothing to do with nasty words. The left hasn't understood power or politics very well and we are paying the price now. Politics is not for the squeamish. Power is the ability to project force to punish enemies and reward friends. You can do it with a sense of Justice but you must do it or you are not in the game.

                •  How delightfully Nixonian (0+ / 0-)

                  Many of us aspire to be better than, not like, the opposition.

                  •  It's not a question of "better" (0+ / 0-)

                    Politics is politics not a high school Civics class. There are rules and laws long ago set down by the ancients that have proven true century in century out. If you were playing basketball would you refuse to try and move your opponent away from a rebound? Or decide dribbling wasn't elegant? Complaining to the powerful works if they are already on your side. When they are clearly not they will mock you and be quite right in doing so.

                    Persuasion can work even in this atmosphere but it must be militant and backed up by organization that can turn on a dime. This is not the sixties when people can just show up and rah rah. This is a much grimmer and more cynical time. The oligarchs are much more in control and have no interest in our welfare at all. What will persuade them? You think electing Democrats makes much of a difference? It doesn't and it won't. It may have at one time but today, clearly, it makes only a minor difference and that mainly in peripheral and cultural issues.

        •  George Carlin is on here all the time. (0+ / 0-)

          Shit, he's been featured on the Front page from time to time.

          He's got a big fan base on dKos.

          There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

          by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:56:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Consult the original pie wars. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pot

      Today, it's not the language.

      The language is the factionalists' excuse for HRing people they hate for saying things they hate about people they love.

      grieving citizen of the murdered Republic, unrepentant rebel against the Empire.

      by khereva on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:05:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We should construct a giant digital tattle box.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        khereva

        And each Friday Kos will sit down and read them to the site.  'Such and such said such and such was fat',  'such and such called me a sissy, slandering the gay community', 'such and such said a rape joke involving clowns', etc.  It would be pretty damn entertaining to watch.  

    •  This is what you value? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Darmok, Catte Nappe

      "about potential sex life changes of a CEO heading to prison, say anything remotely insensitive of the rotund, tell a blonde or female driver joke, use the words 'retard', 'bitch', 'cock gobbler', 'ho bag', 'slut', 'Polish', 'old ass', 'sissy', suggest someone has some object/stick in their pooper, say anything related to PMS, midol, or someone being on the rag, suggest someone growing some balls, wearing man pants, "

      That's worth complaining about?

      You have 99.9% of the internet where you can rudely and non-substantively berate people. Just go to Yahoo! comments and tell people they're fat menstruating dumb blonde retards if you really need to get it out of your system.

      And, yeah, you don't get George Carlin.

      There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

      by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:19:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And what is the purpose of the site again? (2+ / 0-)

        To elect Democrats.  Chase off everything that offends you and defeat the very goal of the site.  You lose the youthful (and sometimes immature), you lose the potentially useful middle aged asshole liberal, you lose that dirty old men, and you lose about every other reality based internet Democrat who enjoys a little humor and occasional obnoxiousness in their boring political readings.

        You defeat the very goal you aim to achieve.  Being a prude doesn't attract people to our team.

        You know it.  I know it.  Carlin would be banished from Daily Kos on his first day.  You don't get Carlin.

        •  And some people you want to lose and just can't .. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zhimbo, FoodChillinMFr

          Am I right, or am I right? - The Singing Detective

          by Clem Yeobright on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:41:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm a "prude". That's pretty damn funny. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Darmok

          I don't much, if any, "prudery" on dKos.

          Seriously - if it's REALLY important to call someone "retarded bitch", you have nearly all of the internet to do so. I really, really don't see this as a loss to dKos.

          BTW, George Carlin is widely quoted and his videos are posted on here all the time. Including all those dirty words and stuff.

          There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

          by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:54:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sarah Palin is a (0+ / 0-)

            'retarded bitch'.

            Was that so bad?  I prefer to avoid such potty language, but sometimes certain words need to be said for effect and context.  

            Now I await the inevitable offended DK facebook gang to HR me into oblivion.  Obviously that was a slight towards women and the handicapped...

            •  Stupid, nonsubstantive, irrelevant, counter- (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Darmok

              productive, and distracting. If that was the norm on this site, you would drive me away from here...which is your point, right? You want people to stay here? Well, I don't frequent sites where that sort of conduct is the norm.

              (and no, that isn't "prudery"...please consult a dictionary)

              And if you ge HR'd for it...so what?  What does it matter to you? It's a tut-tut. Real consequences only happen if you're non-substantive and rude as a rule instead of as an occasional bit of "color" or whatever. And in that case, that's what the system is for.

              This idea that "roving bands" of "prudes" are mass-banning people is  persecutory delusional fantasy.

              There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

              by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 09:17:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Daily Kos shouldn't be a church. (0+ / 0-)

                As far as the "roving bands" go, you obviously ignore the problem and therefore don't see it.  Not your fault.  Just be aware that it's reality, and if you say the wrong thing once, goodbye.  That shouldn't be the case.

                This site should judge a persons worth overall, and not allow autobans off one comment or thread of slightly offensive posts. It happens all the time, but if your in the clique of 'perfect citizens', you won't see it, in denial, or actively part of the hide on site gangs.

    •  Nice thoughts (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FoodChillinMFr

      Indeed Carlin would be banned within a day. As would I if I actually was completely honest since I'm a follower of St. George. So I keep it clean and avoid all the banned stuff and try to be PC--still get HR'd though for incredibly silly stuff by the followers of St. Obama.

      •  You have, like 3 or 4 total HRs over your last (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Darmok

        150 comments, and no hidden comments.

        Is this really worth complaining about? What's the big deal?

        There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

        by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 09:05:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  actually, make that at least your last 400 (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Darmok, Catte Nappe

          comments.

          I guess I don't see the witch hunt.

          There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

          by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 09:20:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  My goodness... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FoodChillinMFr

          No big deal, just commenting. Y'all are so touchy. If I had a complaint it isn't over me. In general, the left in America has become a little too PC and a little too intolerant of original and interesting thought. If the American left had some kind of ideological underpinning then I would understand it a little--but there's no coherent theoretical framework just vague notions. Now that's more of a complaint isn't it?

          •  What's the "My goodness" for? (0+ / 0-)

            I'm just commenting as well.

            You are part of a conversation about whether there is a problem with "PC" and/or "prudes" on dKos. You chimed in. I chimed in response.

            There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

            by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 09:36:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  and how am I being "touchy"? (0+ / 0-)

              I merely responded to you. I wasn't offended by what you said.

              There are two kinds of people in this world: Those who fit into one of two mutually exclusive categories, and those who don't.

              by zhimbo on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 09:38:38 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Meta meta (0+ / 0-)

    meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta.

    Meta.

    Still enjoying my stimulus package.

    by Kevvboy on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:44:00 AM PDT

  •  Is there a list of the top HR'rs? I'd like to see (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angry marmot, Catte Nappe

    the top 10 or top 100 people who most feel the need to HR.  

    I wonder if there will be a pattern of certain groups or certain topics....

    To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

    by joesig on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:44:38 AM PDT

  •  I'm not having any problems (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zhimbo

    reading anything on DKos. There's been a lot of angst about the tone, but honestly I think it's nothing compared to the primaries.

    "So do not try to one-up me because I will one-up yours." Peggy Hill

    by anagram on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 07:54:14 AM PDT

  •  I have often thought that some HR's (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    are given just to distract from the points of a diary. Issuing the HR causes the conversation to swing from the diary subject to an argument over the HR.

    "Turns out, old folks may be cranky, they may not want you kids on their lawn, but they still want those kids to be taken care of when they are old." QAZPLM

    by hkorens on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:03:41 AM PDT

  •  This is Kos fault. They could easily do away with (0+ / 0-)

    this game of HR.

    But it's like Angry Birds for the blog.  As long as they keep people addicted to donuts they get traffic.  Cynical but ask yourself why the site is no longer moderated nor why the founder enforces the original intent to hide comments.

    They want the riff raff and the vacuous and the herd mentality to supersede community.  They are looking for Huffpost like traffic and Huffpost-like profile of common denominator consumption of topical politics.

    You can have it. They want their version of hobbits to amp up the noise machine.  I come here less and less.

    Good diary. Rec'd.

    NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

    by Aeolos on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:19:19 AM PDT

    •  Perhaps ... not less enough? n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Am I right, or am I right? - The Singing Detective

      by Clem Yeobright on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:40:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  LOLs (0+ / 0-)

      you should come clean too. :-)

      "Oh no...you changed your hair color? It's just so dark. You like it? And with your skin tone?" My Mom ♥ 12.25.2007 ------- A true sportsman is a hunter lost in the woods and out of ammo. ~Robert Brault

      by Christin on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:47:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "No longer moderated"? (0+ / 0-)

      For years and years and years it was not moderated, except via community moderation. For a relatively brief time an experiment was tried of burdening one person - MB - with a moderator role. After the effectiveness of that was evaluated they decided to return to the original community moderation concept.

      •  There is no community moderation. (0+ / 0-)

        This is no longer a community at this size.
        Anyone willing use the HR function in its original intention are now discouraged to get into a flame war.  It's all tribal "moderation" depending on what thread you're on.
        Trolls are determined by their factional allegiances not their status as as kossacks.
        Rules are determined by arcane references to the talmud on the FAQ and the interpretation of a particular experience of those rules.  Not the FAQ or its spirit itself.
        It's all kabuki with a nod and wink from the owner who loves the traffic and the flames.

        NO CE/CW. NO UNION BUSTING

        by Aeolos on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 10:58:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It could be easily solved if they just reduced (0+ / 0-)

    the number of HR's people have to give within a given period and prevented people from recycling them. All of this would go away rather quickly.

  •  Are you a trusted user ? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clem Yeobright
    I have never HR'd anyone.
    VS
    Trusted Users have a responsibility to police the general tenor and content of conversations.

    http://www.dkosopedia.com/...

    If you are never hide rating , you are not living up to your responsibilities .

    Or even call it to the attention of a mod?
    If you are a trusted user , you are a part of the moderation system here on DKos . You "have a responsibility to police the general tenor and content of conversations."

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:30:15 AM PDT

  •  Sometimes I have no clue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fiddler On A Hot Tin Roof

    of why comments are HR'd. It's an attempt by people here to maintain some semblance of orthodoxy on the one hand and civility on the other. I believe only abusive comments ought to be HRd. I've had two comments recently HRd simply because I suggested that Obama is not the answer to our problems--stunningly innocuous stuff. It won't change what I write it just makes me better understand why the progressive wing of the Democratic Party is moribund--well, maybe even worse than that--it appears to be dead, no it's not stunned.

  •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    I've been here since the days of the Dean campaign and I can count on my fingers the number of times I have hide-rated someone (and most of those were used in the very early days against a spam program that was flooding dKos with commercials).

    HIde rating really should be only to keep the site on track -- keeping out spam and posts that obviously are just intended to divert and disrupt (as opposed to provoke and make think).

    Hide rating is bad enough, but bitching and whining about getting hide-rated is even worse.

    Still, there are so many diaries to read and that makes it so easy to ignore obnoxious threads.

    Overall, I would say current diary quality is as good or better than it ever was, and for me that's the true criteria by which to judge the health of this site.  Though I mostly post comments and not diaries, my comments are generally intended for the diarist and are not a part of a comment thread conversation.  So I hardly ever read comments unless someone responds to something I wrote.

    This aggression will not stand, man.

    by kaleidescope on Tue Aug 23, 2011 at 08:51:07 AM PDT

  •  For truly offensive comments (0+ / 0-)

    We are the moderators. The problem is, somebody, somewhere, can justify almost anything as being truly offensive to somebody.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site