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I teach at UW Milwaukee, Wisconsin's largest urban university. We have 30,000 students enrolled for this semester, which begins next week. We do a great job serving a highly diverse population, and even though crime exists throughout our neighborhoods, I have never felt unsafe or threatened while at work.

Before this semester, weapons were simply not allowed on campus as decreed by state law, unless you were a cop or had some special agreement with security. But that changes on November 1st.

In July, Governor Walker and his beloved bunch of Republican rascals signed "conceal and carry" into law. Quoting from the University System's website,

A licensed individual may lawfully carry particular weapons in an open or concealed manner as long as there is no indication of a criminal or malicious intent.  The law does not, however, permit people to go armed with a weapon in certain public buildings such as police stations or sheriff’s offices, prisons or jails, courthouses, and schools.  There is no parallel exception for college or university buildings.

You got it: our campuses are deemed fine places to bring your gun, billyclub, kinves and tasers or other "electric weapon." Hey, it is the Dairy State after all! I hear that cattle prods are going for under 100 bucks on the internet! That'll keep the freshmen alert!

DX32HI RES

But even though anyone with a license can conceal or show weapons throughout the campus, we can prohibit weapons from being brought into our buildings.

"To prohibit firearms within a campus building, the institution must place a sign (at least 5 inches by 7 inches) in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the part of the building to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the building can be reasonably expected to see the sign. An appropriate sign should contain the following language such as: Firearms Prohibited in Building.

I'm glad that our contemporary signage will be laser printed rather than hand painted, so we won't be confused with late 19th century saloons in Durango.

cowboysleaveyourguns6x18_636x212

So what should I do if my course, "From Walden to the Web" is threatened by some dude packing heat? You know, maybe he didn't want to put his Glock in the dropbox by the front door?

A12: If the person is non-threatening, you may voluntarily choose to inform the person that concealed weapons are not allowed in that area.  However, if the person is uncooperative, then you should contact the local campus police department and report the incident.  Be prepared to provide the police or dispatcher with a description of the person, the type of concealed weapon, and the area where he/she was last seen.  No matter what, do not place yourself or others in danger or harm's way.

I know that I feel reassured. "Uhhhh…excuse me, but could you please turn off your cell phone, and, ummm, not clean your Walther semi-automatic during class?… Please?"

WaltherP22003

Originally posted to noise of rain on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 12:57 PM PDT.

Also republished by Badger State Progressive.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Our Chancellor at Eau Claire discussed this at (9+ / 0-)

    the opening breakfast.  There is no exemption even for our childcare center on campus.  And even if every door on the campus is marked, there is nothing to do about the property.

  •  We all know what will happen (8+ / 0-)

    College can be a very stressful environment.  And it's a place where many kids are on their own for the first times in their lives without supervision--that means drinking and other recreational substances.

    Add guns into the mix and you have the perfect storm.

    When the inevitable bloodbath occurs--and it will, what will our friends in the NRA/RKBA community say?

    I guarantee it won't be 'gee, perhaps we need to rethink this whole guns on campus thing.'

    Instead, they will use it as an excuse.  As in 'we need more guns on campus because they're such violent places.'

    •  It is an endless cycle of armament, though (4+ / 0-)

      seems to fit our general national zeitgeist as well. Another convergence between the micro and the macro!

    •  This is my fear. We have a lot of kids (4+ / 0-)

      dealing with substance abuse, depression and suicide. What good can possibly come from adding ubiquitous guns into the mix?

    •  Many Undergrads Crack Up (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      carolus, noise of rain

      We had a series of dmaging breakins at the administrative office, and when we installed a security camera we discovered that the perp was a sophmore girl who was convinced that she had failed a test and that the papers were in the main office (they never were). Her parents were called, she was not prosecuted.

      I don't think guns would have helped.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 03:42:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, we do know what will happen. (4+ / 0-)

      The same thing that has happened everywhere else this has been tried...

      Nothing.

      This is not going to be a problem.

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:39:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Denial of Reality (0+ / 0-)

        Apparently, Lefty believes there's never been a shooting on any campus.

        •  no, that's just you trying to stir up shit. as (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          happy camper

          usual. your statement was a non-cogent strawman. as usual.

          here's another direct question for you to ignore: how many of those shootings were on a campus that honored a licence to carry?

        •  No, that's not what I said. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          happy camper, rockhound

          It's what you'd have liked me to have said, but since I failed to oblige, you probably should have used a different argument.

          What I did say is that the overwhelming odds are that there will not be any more incidents of violence on college campuses in Wisconsin than there would have been had this law never existed.

          While it would not surprise me to learn that there had, in fact, been slightly fewer such incidents, the evidence to support that thesis is a little more ambiguous than is the evidence that there will not be more.

          I base this prediction on two easily-verifiable observations:

          1) That the exact prediction made in this diary, that violence will increase, has been made every single time firearms carry laws have been liberalized, and without exception, it has been wrong.

          and

          2) Wisconsin is not special.

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 09:37:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, there is actually no "exact prediction" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            carolus, ehrenfeucht games

            that "violence will increase" made by the diary. There is an implicit suggestion that gun-related violence might increase. That can be inferred from the intention of the writer. Semantics, perhaps, but since you are being very precise about what is assumed or projected, I figure I should do the same!

            •  I did infer that you were predicting... (0+ / 0-)

              increased violence at and around Wisconsin colleges. it's the "blood in the streets" argument, even though you didn't use that phrase.

              Every single time any jurisdiction has liberalized its carry laws, those who oppose the change have argued that more people with more guns in more places will lead to more violence, more injuries, and more deaths.

              Do you think that this will be the case in Wisconsin? (I hope so.... if not, then either your writing or my reading is seriously out of whack... and with no way to tell which is true.)

              Assuming that you do, let me try to change your mind by observing that, in not one jursidiction since Florida started the whole "shall-issue" phenomenon in 1988, has this in fact happened, despite having been predicted in every single case.

              It has never happened.

              In fact, not only have rates of violent crime continued to go down as more and more places liberalize their gun laws, even the CDC could not establish any correlation between the strictness or liberality of firearms laws and any measure of violent crime. And that's despite a lot of hard looking by a team of researchers who, given that their field (public health) is one of the most in favor of restrictive gun laws, (at least at the level of professional organization and published opinions), would seem likely to have a very strong confirmation bias in favor of the proposition.

              In other words, if anyone could be expected to find evidence for the efficacy of gun control in preventing crime and violence, a team of public health PhDs from the CDC would be them.

              They couldn't. The best they could come up with was "more research is needed..." which is, especially in the social sciences, often the accepted way of saying "we can't / won't believe that this is the case, but that's what the data say" while preserving some level of objectivity.

              Wisconsin college students will be fine.

              Even posting the buildings "no firearms" isn't really useful. Because defending against a Cho isn't the point.

              This is about a 21-year-old student walking to her car at 10 pm in February. Think on that for a second. Now, what was the first bad situation that popped into your head? I would bet a case of your favorite beer that it involved a man appearing out of the darkness. Play that scenario twice. In the first run-through, the young woman has her backpack and a cell phone. In the second, she's got a small handgun.

              Which scenario turns out better for her, do you think?

              And that's what this is about.

              --Shannon

              "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
              "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

              by Leftie Gunner on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 11:16:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Like (4+ / 0-)

    http://www.mlive.com/...

    http://www.khou.com/...

    http://www.deseretnews.com/...

    http://www.chron.com/...

    I love guns and shooting. But in a classroom setting the potential for a gun getting dropped and a single round injuring or killing multiple people is fairly high.

    •  Wow, that is pretty chilling! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ehrenfeucht games

      I didn't know that there were so many cases of that. At least when someone's phone rings, it only disturbs one's train of thought!

      •  What the hey? (2+ / 0-)

        Okay, the derringer and the two shot pistol... What the fuck. There's a REASON humans do things like redesign faulty tools, and there's a REASON antique and seriously aged designs are not to be carried around.

        What the fuck. Carrying that derringer and that two-shot is just begging for idiocy to have wider consequences.

        By the way, hollowdweller listed that one derringer incident twice. So hollowdweller really only listed four events.

        Of the Kahr hitting the toilet bowl... I'm not that familiar with Kahr's designs to tell how much was firearm design failure and how much was "GET A PROPER HOLSTER FUCKHEAD!". On the strength of the idiot's choice of holster plus the most basic look at Kahr's designed mechanical safeties, I'm going to say the pistol went boom due to the guy's fiddling. I betcha he tried to catch it from hitting the floor, and if he had let it fall it would have done nothing.

        And of that kmart incident... AGAIN. GET A FUCKING PROPER HOLSTER YOU STUPID SHITHEAD should be shouted in that guy's face. Wanna carry in the pocket, get a pocket holster! Wanna carry on the belt, get one with retention!

        So... All hollowdweller really did was post four incidents where the person did not have their weapon properly holstered. Of those four, at least two were of such obsolete design that they should not be part of the daily carry crowd. No idea what the make/model of the kmart pistol was, but I bet it should have been retired from the daily carry as well.

        ...

        Look. Noise of rain. My absolute favorite class ever was the one semester I had of philosophy. I absolutely loved it! So, I truly do understand that you seem to be in a Plato's Cave situation, where there are shadows of "the campus will run with blood" playing upon the wall.

        Stop and consider that there are still other things at play.
        First, there is the background checks required by law.
        Second, there is the age requirement.
        Third, there are the economics of the purchase - in a battle between a pistol and beer, which is going to win?
        Fourth, there are the issues of storage. They can still be banned from dormitories.
        Fifth, use this as a teaching opportunity. You can't keep these kids from anything that is dangerous, and you should NOT desire to do so anyway. So, how about using "Just because you can doesn't mean it's a good idea" in an object lesson?

        Treat your students right, arm them with the best tools possible so they can make multi-faceted decisions later on regardless of their own desires on any particular issue. Remember, you need these kids to think clearly so they can act clearly when you are in your dotage. This means not shielding them from the plain facts of the world, being able to face it without knee-jerk fear.

        "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

        by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 04:50:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Jay - do you deal with college students? (3+ / 0-)

          On a day to day basis? Particularly the men?

          There are times where these guys are in a stoopid echo chamber. It's not guns or beer... it's guns AND beer.

          I had firearms training and know how to shoot (rifle, not pistol). I have a certain sympathy for the thought that gun control is being able to hit your target.

          But the idea of these guys with weapons is scary. Especially scary because I'm one of the most likely targets.

          Oh, and last point - You mention that we ought to make an object lesson. I and NOR and others would be out of line if we started discussing firearm safety in our classes. We're paid  to teach a specific topic. And firearms safety isn't part of our training.

          Mere passive citizenship is not enough. Men must be aggressive for what is right if government is to be saved from men who are aggressive for what is wrong. - Robert M. LaFollette

          by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:38:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  St Croix, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk

            You have to go and get the info for this question before I'll reply to the rest of your post:

            Detail ALL of the requirements for a conceal carry permit in wisconsin.
            Include the steps for actually purchasing a pistol.

            By the way, how much does a pistol cost? How much beer does that buy? And, in this economy of pell grants how many college students of the appropriate age are going to choose one pistol over X amount of beer?

            Remember. ALL of the conceal carry permit requirements.

            "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

            by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:22:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The question is very simple, (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ehrenfeucht games, Pandoras Box

              do you deal with college students? Particularly men? On a day-to-day basis?

              Mere passive citizenship is not enough. Men must be aggressive for what is right if government is to be saved from men who are aggressive for what is wrong. - Robert M. LaFollette

              by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:25:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Jay, I'm not trying to be obnoxious (4+ / 0-)

                but I'd hope that you could see things from the perspective of a college instructor.

                I've seen lots of young men exhibiting violent and threatening behavior. Sometimes towards me, sometimes towards other faculty, sometimes towards other students. I've had to call campus security on people.

                You appear to support RKBA, that's fine. Me, not as much. I believe that we as Democrats need to put things like this aside and work on the bigger issues together (because I think this is a small one).

                I'd hope that, even if you don't agree with me that we should limit weapons to outside of the classroom, that it's a valid point for reasonable discussion.

                Mere passive citizenship is not enough. Men must be aggressive for what is right if government is to be saved from men who are aggressive for what is wrong. - Robert M. LaFollette

                by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:35:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  If it was so small to you (0+ / 0-)

                  then why did you jump in like that?

                  I believe that we as Democrats need to put things like this aside and work on the bigger issues together (because I think this is a small one).

                  There's a certain style of argument that the conservative republicans emerge from, almost all the time. The basic mindset that people cannot control their actions. It goes like this:
                  Gotta ban abortions and contraception and sex ex COMPLETELY because kids are pumped full of hormones and if they learn anything at all about sex - especially if they figure out ways that sex will be very unlikely to cause pregancy - then the kids will be unable to control themselves and will be banging each other in the hallways and mop closets and the bathroom stalls and the locker rooms and everywhere they can get a few moments alone. Kids can't help themselves, all that it takes is for a teacher to give them a hint of the basics in a normal non-religious health class and that will leave the barn door open for the horse to get out, and then we'll have the entire female dorm plus half the townies pregnant. Gotta ban it all, gotta ban it all, they just can't help themselves.

                  Utter bullshit.

                  Well, forgive the bluntness, but you're suffering from coming from the same place of fear.

                  Gotta keep them all away. Those kids can't help themselves. Just a little bit of anger and every single one of them will be acting out the tiniest urge for violence. They can't help themselves, their hormones have taken control. The guys will be shooting each other in the head, the girls will be shooting each other in the face or the chest, all over the tiniest of insults. All it takes is for the chance for bloodshed, and that will leave the barn door open for the horse to get out, and then we'll have half of the dorms covered in blood and half the townies gone too. Gotta ban them all, gotta ban them all, can't have them anywhere around here, they will take a situation where someone would normally just fire off a smartass comment and the mere presence of a gun will hijack that person - because NOBODY has any self control don't you know - and instead of firing off a comment that person will fire off a thousand bullets sending thousands of people flying out windows. Egads!

                  Sure, it's a little reductio ad absurdem (sp?). But the sense of emotion is accurate between the two because the fear "NONE OF THESE KIDS CAN CONTROL THEMSELVES ACK!!!!" is in common between you.

                  Quit letting your fear make your decisions for you. Quit channeling the conservative emotion. Let them suffer in their fear, that knee-jerk response is for them.

                  And again, for the benefit of everyone, list out the damn requirements for being issued a concealed carry license for wisconsin, will ya?

                  "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

                  by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 07:15:38 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  "do not place yourself or others in danger... (4+ / 0-)

    ...or harm's way."

    Reminds me of the line I read in "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Medical Care for the Uninsured":

    Do Your Best to Avoid Accidents

    The FitzWalkerstan style of passing legislation is vote first and ask questions later.

    "Every day is a good day to point out hypocrisy"...PvtJarHead

    by Giles Goat Boy on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 01:36:40 PM PDT

  •  NOR, for now look to UWS 17 (4+ / 0-)

    I am also a faculty member in the UW-System.

    UWS 17.01 Policy statement. The missions of the University of Wisconsin System and its individual institutions can be realized only if the university's teaching, learning, research and service activities occur in living and learning environments that are safe and free from violence, harassment, fraud, theft, disruption and intimidation.

    My syllabi state that bringing any weapon into the classroom violates UWS 17 and will result in the student's expulsion from the class. I am prepared to stick with this until and unless I receive written orders that I am required to allow students to bring weapons into the classroom.

    And at that point I may seriously consider early retirement.

    Mere passive citizenship is not enough. Men must be aggressive for what is right if government is to be saved from men who are aggressive for what is wrong. - Robert M. LaFollette

    by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 02:17:17 PM PDT

    •  Thanks. I'll post that to my course syllabus! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ehrenfeucht games
      •  CAREFUL THERE. (4+ / 0-)

        Don't shove your head into the blender. I can see the Scotus phrasing already...

        Just as a student's freedom of speech does not disappear at the schoolhouse door, neither does the student's right to keep and bear arms disappear.

        Also keep in mind... Yeah, we call them 'kids' and of course they surely do act like immature children; but they will still be legally adult.

        Not to mention, doesn't Wisconsin state law require a person to be 21 before they can get their clearance for a concealed weapon?

        So, not only may we still call them 'kids', but they will be FULLY legally adult. Not even in that middle ground between adulthood and drinking age.

        So, don't jump to shove your head into the blender there.

        "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

        by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:08:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for the warning! I'll look into this... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayFromPA
          •  WooHoo! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk, happy camper

            That makes me happy. Near as I can tell, learning about guns and the laws that apply to them almost always sucks the trifecta of idiocy (Fear / Uncertainty / Doubt) out of a person, and they start considering the domino cascade of cause/effect before making snap pronouncements.

            WOOHOO! Another person pulled from the abyss!

            "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

            by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:44:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Trifecta of idiocy? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ehrenfeucht games

              Is this snark?

              Mere passive citizenship is not enough. Men must be aggressive for what is right if government is to be saved from men who are aggressive for what is wrong. - Robert M. LaFollette

              by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:50:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Unfortunately, no. (nt) (0+ / 0-)

                "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

                by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:06:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do you deny (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  oldpunk, happy camper, Cera

                  that people filled with Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt do dumb things?

                  Microsoft used FUD to sabotage technically superior products in favor of their windows product for years.

                  FUD was used by the bush administration to keep the populace in line - fear of another attack, uncertainty over the future so that we would let them choose the path, doubt over our own ability to make decisions for ourselves and thus willingly put them in charge.

                  FUD. The trifecta of idiocy. I'm happy that Noise Of Rain doesn't seem to be ruled by FUD. This is good. Even if NOR chooses not to partake in anything, being anti-FUD is still a win.

                  "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

                  by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:14:37 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Jay, I teach in a classroom with 200 students. (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Pandoras Box, antirove

                    They are there to learn mathematics.

                    This requires a non-distracting and non-threatening environment free of intimidation.

                    The President of the University of Arizona put it this way, when the issue came up there:


                    Statement on Guns on Campus Legislation

                    The University of Arizona is unambiguously opposed to having guns on campus. The notion that having faculty, staff or students toting weapons across campus would somehow make everyone safer is staggeringly naïve. Bringing guns into classrooms creates enormous problems for law enforcement, which is why all the university police chiefs in Arizona have spoken vigorously against this idea. The danger posed by guns is real, and well-documented. Bringing guns into classrooms simply increases the threat to those on campus. That is unacceptable.

                    Universities provide a unique environment that is dependent on open and vigorous debate. Introducing guns into classrooms would dramatically and negatively impact the ability to engage in the exchange of ideas. Instead, we would see the intimidation inherent when guns are present – something that is antithetical to the very idea of a university.

                    http://www.president.arizona.edu/...

                    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

                    by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:45:37 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Non-distracting and non-threatening. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Cera, KVoimakas

                      Sounds just like the type of excuses a local school used in this case:

                      They initially argued the bracelets were "inappropriate," "potentially embarrassing" and "offensive," she wrote, but later switched to the argument they were "lewd and indecent speech" and disruptive to students.

                      http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/...

                      Look, show me where you are threatened by a pistol that is concealed.
                      Show me where you are distracted by a handgun that is concealed.
                      Show me where Bob is threatened or distracted by a small .380 concealed in an Inside Waist Band holster under Sally's shirt, when he cannot see it.

                      As for that, what's the crime rate on campus? What's the crime rate against women? What's the rape rate? Sexual assault? Is it all reported to the municipal police? Have you read Warren Vs DC?

                      To get back to your exact words... Since when are you distracted by something you cannot see and have no idea is there? Are you commonly distracted by the imagined smell of a colostomy bag that you have no evidence is there? Because that's the caliber of argument you make, that an object that none see and none smell and none know about is a distraction and is threatening.

                      If a tree falls in the forest and you aren't there to hear it nor have any idea that it fell, do you tell "Timberrrrrrr!"

                      Hm?

                      "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

                      by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 07:29:29 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  That's a lovely pile of... (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      KVoimakas

                      ...sentiment there, but I'm curious.  Are you screening students for weapons at all points of entry? Did you check Sally for pistol in her purse?  Did you check Billy for a underarm holster?  Are you conducting random weapon searches in dorm rooms?  Or do you seriously believe an unlicensed mass murderer like Seung-Hui Cho would be deterred by a ban on carrying in public spaces, let alone a campus regulation?

            •  Jay... what makes you think that I don't know (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ehrenfeucht games

              about guns? I like 'em. I target shoot. I hunt. I've grown up around guns. And my diary post is not diaried or posted out of fear. I think that is you jumping the gun! I simply think it is bad and absurd policy. A campus of 30,000 is a volatile place. I deal with it all the time.

              And yes, you are correct: what is, is, and I can't change the (new) law with a diary. I don't like conceal/carry for a lot of reasons, but I can be reasonable enough to understand its attraction to people. But campuses, like the "lower" schools, should not be places where people pack.

              You should talk to our campus security (police) about it!

              •  It looks like (0+ / 0-)

                posting signage will remedy the situation. If a student can't enter a building and go to class while carrying, they won't be able to carry, for all practical purposes.

                Keep in mind too, that where CCW is allowed, generally less than ten percent of those eligible will get a permit, and many won't carry all the time anyway. Carrying is a pain, especially if you're sitting down most of the time--like a student in a classroom.

                I agree with Lefty--it's not going to be an issue.

                "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

                by happy camper on Sat Sep 03, 2011 at 07:49:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  RKBA stops at the classroom door. (3+ / 0-)

          Sorry.

          A student's freedom of speech does not disappear at the schoolhouse door, but it is severely curtailed. You harass, threaten, or demean other students in my classroom and you will be ejected.

          As the first amendment is restricted in certain situations, so should be the second. You shouldn't have a right to bring a loaded concealed weapon into a classroom.

          Mere passive citizenship is not enough. Men must be aggressive for what is right if government is to be saved from men who are aggressive for what is wrong. - Robert M. LaFollette

          by stcroix cheesehead on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 05:46:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  As you just indicated. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            oldpunk, noise of rain, KVoimakas

            You don't completely surrender your rights at the schoolhouse door.

            Personally, I consider a mind loaded with fundamentalist religion to be much more dangerous than any physical object. Ayn Rand and Grover Norquist are a modern day Bonnie and Clyde, blasting their ideas out into the populace. I consider them to be ultimately responsible for the forty five thousand people killed by the health insurance industry each year.

            Each year. Forty Five Thousand. Just from health insurance. Add the poverty and the unsafe jobs and the environmentals and the obesity and the dangerous pharmaceuticals (vioxx anyone?) and the food deaths and everything else that sprang from corporate malfeasance.
            Killed by Ayn and Grover's minds. Those two are the true loose cannons, leaving swiss cheese holes in our society every single day.

            If you can bring yourself to strip one right, make it less than the others, make it worthless and take it away, why not start with the right that Ayn and Grover use to kill so many good people each year, not to mention all of the suffering felt by those who managed to live through the year but still were injured by Ayn and Grover?

            Can you do that, for me? Please? Before my nephews and niece get too much older?

            ;=)

            "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

            by JayFromPA on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:41:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Jay, you're funny, in an intense kind of way. (0+ / 0-)

              I mean, really, no snark intended, thanks for the impassioned arguments. While I don't quite buy the logical leap in this one - I mean, we were talking about this very specific law and its application to a large campus, and you jump metaphor to "mind loaded"...  (gun = thought?)... I do find total agreement with what you say about Ayn and Grover (though it sounds like an unholy Sesame Street skit!). What's to argue? Yes: blind faith in unexamined beliefs can do great damage to a culture. History is the discipline of that writ large.

              I still don't think it is a good policy to allow guns on a campus. Whether I can see them or not!

    •  Organize All The Teachers To Bring Rifles (0+ / 0-)

      Or you could just do it yourself, see if it catches on.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 03:45:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  the law was pushed just so (3+ / 0-)

    some idiot can strut around with a gun on his hip, or in his pocket.  Meanwhile, people are still losing their jobs, their homes, their cars, and their dignity.  Skewed priorities, anyone?

    "Overgrown, stuck-up goat," the cat muttered.

    by GenuineRisk on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 02:32:37 PM PDT

    •  Or... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KVoimakas

      ...so a young woman could keep a stun gun or other defensive implement other than pepper spray.

      I imagine your officious attitude towards people who want nothing more than the right to defend themselves has more to do with the success of the Fitzwalker steamroller than any "skewed priorities" from RKBA.  And as the record plainly shows, 6 of 14 Democrats and Senate and 11 of 37 of those in the Assembly at least have the sense not to exude such obvious contempt for their constituents.

  •  Yeeeeehaaaaaw! (5+ / 0-)

    Bring your guns to class now in Scotty Walkers FitzWalkerKochStan.  It's going to be a rootin' tootin' shootin' good time.

    /yeah, really snarky

    There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

    by Puddytat on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 02:49:12 PM PDT

  •  This is insane. (nt) (2+ / 0-)

    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

    by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 03:17:58 PM PDT

  •  Here's a previous diary on this issue from AZ (0+ / 0-)

    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

    by ehrenfeucht games on Fri Sep 02, 2011 at 06:19:23 PM PDT

  •  Yeah... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KVoimakas

    ...because campus bans really work.

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