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Leading Off:

MD Redistricting: It looks like Maryland's redistricting process, like that in so many other states, may be headed off the rails. After hints that she was unhappy, Dem Rep. Donna Edwards has now come out and declared her formal opposition to the map produced by the Governor's Redistricting Advisory Committee (aka "GRAC"). The Washington Post explains:

But the plan would also take away the portion of Montgomery that Edwards represents, stretching her 4th District from Prince George’s into Anne Arundel County instead. Rep. John Sarbanes’s (D) 3rd District would also take a portion of Montgomery.

The result, Edwards said Tuesday, would be that Montgomery—a county where minorities make up the majority, according to 2010 Census data—would be splintered into three districts, all likely represented by white men.

“I have been one of the strongest proponents as a Democrat of drawing a seventh district for Democrats,” Edwards said in an interview Tuesday. “But we can accomplish that in a different way…. Where I have a real disagreement is in making superior the political interests to the minority voting rights interests.”

Some, though, are questioning her motives, wondering whether Edwards is actually speaking out because she's fearful of a primary challenge out of Prince George's County, which would become the new center of gravity in the redrawn (and Montgomery-less) 4th District. Regardless, while Edwards of course does not literally have a vote on the matter, she has allies—and the Legislative Black Caucus is considerable in Maryland. In fact, its 34 members in the House of Delegates would be enough to tip the balance of power to the Republicans, who hold 43 seats to the Democrats' 98. And indeed, one Republican legislator, state Sen. Christopher Shank, has been suggesting precisely that coalition of convenience.

Gov. Martin O'Malley has said that he doesn't plan to make major changes to the GRAC map before submitting his final version to the legislature, so this could get very messy if one side or the other doesn't budge. And it's all doubly a shame because Democrats could have pressed forward with the much better "Option 2" map that would have created eight winnable seats for Dems.

3Q Fundraising:

CT-05: Chris Donovan (D): $250K raised

FL-Sen: Sen. Bill Nelson (D): $2 million raised, $7.5 million cash-on-hand

FL-22: Lois Frankel (D): $415K raised; Patrick Murphy: $313K raised

IA-04: Christie Vilsack (D): $330K raised, $540K cash-on-hand

TX-Sen: David Dewhurst (R): $2.64 mil raised, plus $2 million in self-funding

TX-35: Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D): $375K raised, $3.3 million cash-on-hand

Senate:

CT-Sen: I can't see how he'd have a hope of making a dent in a GOP primary already so crowded, which I guess is why former U.S. Comptroller David Walker says he will "probably not" run for Senate. (There's also been some speculation that he could run as an independent, but who knows.) Walker says he'll make up his mind by the end of January, which would be awfully late to enter the race if he did decide to go for it.

HI-Sen: Linda Lingle, the Republican former two-term governor of Hawaii, finally launched her campaign yesterday for the state's open Senate seat. Click the link for our full post analyzing this decision at Daily Kos Elections—and why we think she'll lose.

ND-Sen: This is some welcome news for Team Blue. Former state AG Heidi Heitkamp now says she is "considering" a bid for North Dakota's open Senate seat and will decide within 30 days. Heitkamp is probably the strongest Democratic candidate out there, having won statewide office three times, and she'd give us a fighting chance to hold this seat. The news is surprising (in a good way), because back in May, Heitkamp's brother Joel (a former state senator turned radio host) said of his sister, "I know her well enough to know she's running for governor." Evidently not.

VA-Sen: Nothing ever changes in the Virginia Senate race, where Democrat Tim Kaine and Republican George Allen have been neck-and-neck in almost every single poll. Quinnipiac's latest has Kaine ahead 45-44. Last month, it was Allen up 45-44.

WI-Sen: Yet another dragged-out "official announcement." Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald said back in August that he'd join the GOP Senate field. Now, finally, some six weeks later, he actually has. As you know, the primary is already very crowded, with wealthy ex-Rep. Mark Neumann and ex-Gov. Tommy Thompson on the scene. It could get even busier if hedge fund manager Eric Hovde gets in as well.

Gubernatorial:

WI-Gov: In case you missed it, Wisconsin Democrats just announced the launch of an effort to recall Republican Gov. Scott Walker. Click the link for our full post at Daily Kos Elections.

House:

AZ-04: GOP state Sen. Ron Gould says he's interested in Congress but wants to see where incumbents wind up on the final map. Currently, there's no one with a clear claim on the draft version of AZ-04, though Rep. Paul Gosar may prefer to run there since it's much more Republican-friendly than the proposed new version of his 1st CD. Gould sounds like he's more concerned with what fellow Republican Trent Franks will do, but right now, the new 8th is a perfect fit for him.

DE-AL: New Castle County Council president Tom Kovach says he will challenge freshman Dem Rep. (not often you need to use that phrase) John Carney for Delaware's lone House seat. Kovach had picked up a Democratic-held seat in a Dec. 2008 special election but lost re-election last year. (A little anvil named Christine O'Donnell helped weigh him down.) However, he won his current council seat in another special early this year, picking up Democrat Paul Clark's seat when Clark became New Castle County Executive. (Clark succeeded to the job held by Chris Coons, the guy who of course beat O'Donnell.)

IN-05: He may be a Some Dude, but he's got the name you know (sort of): Attorney Jack Lugar says he's joining the clusterf*ck that is the GOP primary to unseat Rep. Dan Burton—but the much more famous Richard Lugar says the two aren't related. Still, name recognition's gotta count for something.

MI-11: Former GOP state Rep. Rocky Raczkowski, who narrowly lost last year to Dem Rep. Gary Peters, had been thinking about a rematch since January. But because Republicans eliminated Peters' seat in redistricting, that wound up leaving poor Rocky without any place to run. Peters opted for a primary fight with Hansen Clarke in the redrawn 14th, but that district's no place for someone like Raczkowski, whose only real choice was the new 11th. That seat, though, is presently occupied by GOP Rep. Thad McCotter, who apparently has firmed up his re-election plans after bailing on his extremely short-lived presidential adventure, because he's now tapped Rocky to serve as his campaign chair. However, McCotter still faces a primary challenge from state Sen. Mike Kowall.

OK-02: Looks like Democrats finally got their huckleberry: Former district attorney and assistant U.S. Attorney Rob Wallace, whose name has been in the mix at least since August just declared that he'd seek the seat being left open by Rep. Dan Boren, who is retiring. When former Rep. Brad Carson and former state Sen. Ken Corn both said they wouldn't run, Wallace shot to the top of many lists, so he looks like a good get. This is a red-on-the-presidential-level-but-ancestrally-Dem district which will be a tough but not impossible hold. (By the way, we need a short-hand name for that kind of district. Ideas?)

Other Races:

KY-AG, KY-Gov: Democratic AG Jack Conway just received the endorsement of the NRA as he seeks re-election next month. He's the only statewide Democrat to receive the NRA's backing, though the group declined to endorse in the governor's race.

OH SB5: This is an unreal level of chutzpah—in fact, it's downright thievery. The video below contains two ads, back-to-back. The first is from We Are Ohio, the union umbrella organization fighting to repeal Ohio's new anti-collective bargaining bill known as SB5 and placed on the ballot next month as "Issue 2." (A "no" vote on Issue 2 is a vote to repeal SB5.) The second is from a group called "Building a Better Ohio," which supports SB5. Now, we've all seen many political ads that reference prior ads, but they always make it clear where the source material is from, usually by framing it inside a fake TV. But Building a Better Ohio just outright steals clips to make it look like the woman in We Are Ohio's ad is actually endorsing a "yes" vote on Issue 2! Just watch for yourselves. It's an outrage:

Originally posted to Daily Kos Elections on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:00 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (6+ / 0-)

    Political Director, Daily Kos

    by David Nir on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:00:04 AM PDT

  •  The story about Edwards meeting with Bartlett (4+ / 0-)

    suggests to me that no deal among Democrats may be in the works.

    I sense that we're about to get seriously fucked in Maryland.

    I just hope Edwards doesn't have the nerve to come back here and ask for more money. But if she does, she'll get a piece of my mind.

    Ok, so I read the polls.

    by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:11:53 AM PDT

  •  Again (4+ / 0-)

    the way it works in Maryland is that the legislature does not have to approve the map.  If they choose, they must agree on a different map than the one proposed by the Governor.  That is not an easy thing to do.  I'd venture the map the Governor actually submits will be slightly different than the one the Commission proposed.  Donna will keep some of MoCo and the districts will shift slightly.  But the main effect will be the same.

    (Disclosure-Donna Edwards is one of my clients.)

    http://www.trublupolitics.com

    by DavidatTruBlu on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:33:03 AM PDT

  •  Alison Grimes (5+ / 0-)

    gets the courier journal endorsement.

    http://www.courier-journal.com/...

    The ABC's of voting in Kentucky A- Abramson B- Beshear C- Conway D- Democrats E- Edelen F- Farmer G- Grimes H- Hollenbach

    by drhoosierdem on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:56:31 AM PDT

  •  Edwards can't count on the state black caucus (5+ / 0-)

    The premise that Donna Edwards would automatically find the black caucus in the state legislature to be in her corner on this is shaky (at best).

    Donna never served in the legislature, and got elected as an insurgent reformer candidate against the machine Al Wynn - counting on votes out of MontCo in order to beat him.

    Some of the African-American legislators from PG are not exactly stellar progressives and (like legislators everywhere) can be sleazy and self-serving in their dealings. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them supporting a plan that screwed Edwards by removing MontCo territory from her district and gave them a potential opening to challenge her in a more PG focused primary.  

    If we're not careful, we could lose a good progressive Dem like Edwards and end up with another Al Wynn in Congress.

    There are lots of better ways to draw this district that don't enhance that possibility. Hopefully legislators will find a way to make that happen.

    My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world - Jack Layton

    by terjeanderson on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:04:30 AM PDT

    •  Does this explain it? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingofSpades, itskevin

      I've been trying to avoid this subject, but I just can't anymore.

      19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren for Senate!

      by ndrwmls10 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:10:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  meh (0+ / 0-)

      Sounds like you'd even excuse Edwards if she did vote for Boehner for Speaker. (She's an insurgent!)

      Ok, so I read the polls.

      by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:13:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not at all (6+ / 0-)

        That is a ridiculous charge to throw around.

        I'm simply noting that the premise of the story suggesting that Edwards could count on the support of a united 34 members of the state black caucus is at odds with the reality of Maryland politics.

        There are lots of effective ways to get a good 7-1 map. This flawed one which, among other things, provides a road map for a hack politician to challenge a progressive incumbent, is not necessarily the best way to get there.

        My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world - Jack Layton

        by terjeanderson on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:34:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You think she's acting as a lone wolf on this? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jncca

          In order to do that, you've got to explain away her strategy meeting with Roscoe Bartlett. Yes, that happened.

          What we've got here is a Democratic incumbent strategizing with the Republicans to protect her own interests (as if she were actually in any danger) and potentially fucking the Democrats out of another seat.

          Where do you think that the Democratic votes for that extra seat are going to come from? Chris Van Hollen takes a much worse hit in the Governor's proposal, but he kept his mouth shut.

          Ok, so I read the polls.

          by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:38:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  do you not recall that she was saying (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            terjeanderson

            before that she was willing to weaken her district to take Bartlett's?  You don't know what the two discussed.

            You seem like you're in a bad mood right now.  If so, I'd encourage you to do something that'll lighten your mood.  A couple of your comments have been kind of rude.

            I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

            by James Allen on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:03:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  and he should not have kept his mouth shut (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            artbrodsky

            Chris has been a good company man for years and he just got shat all over.  Our best center-left guy just got weakened, and we may lose our best progressive.

            For what goddamned reason should anybody be "keeping their mouths shut" about this, while we all get shoehorned seamlessly toward the conservative side of the Democratic political spectrum.  

            I don't care how angry you are at Donna, the larger picture is that this map hurts progressive politics in MD, and given the national trajectory of attitudes toward the Democratic party, if we want to stay relevant, we need to be moving to the left not the right.  This is inexcusable party hackery.

            Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:21:09 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  A progressive Democrat could win (7+ / 0-)

              any of the 7 proposed Democratic seats. Previously there were only 6 such seats.

              This is not rocket science.

              Ok, so I read the polls.

              by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:22:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I don't understand your point (5+ / 0-)

              Clearly neither Donna Edwards nor Van Hollen will not be losing in a general election under the current map (if they did lose the Republican would be holding the most liberal district in the country held by a Republican). The primary electorate in either district will be very liberal.

              I can't really see what your concern for Van Hollen is at all, could you please explain this futher. Are you afraid he'll lose in the general? Are you concerned about a primary challenger? Neither seem likely to me, could you explain why you disagree.

              I guess your concern with Edwards could be that a machine PG county Democrat might be more likely to beat her in a primary but (1) that seems fairly unlikely given how relatively entrenched she currently seems and (2) PG County will represent a substantial majority of her district no matter what and she's going to be somewhat susceptible to such a challenge no matter what.  Is this your concern? If so could you further explain it.

              All of this should be considered in light of the fact that the map replaces a Republican with (likely) and Montgomery County Democrat. I fail to see how that could possibly be a losing proposition.

              •  Yes, that is my concern for Donna (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                terjeanderson

                I don't want her replaced with a typical machine Democrat.

                How entrenched she is is a matter of debate, borne out by your own comments that 1)she's so entrenched she couldn't be ousted and 2)she's going to be vulnerable to a PG challenge no matter what. These are contradictory statements, and they pretty much reflect the uncertainty on the ground here as to whether Donna is vulnerable and how much--but it's fairly well established amongst everyone I've talked to that she's the loser in this map, because MoCo progressives have  been a solid buttress for her, and she's now losing them.  So, how bad will it be for her and could it result in a primary loss?  No one knows, but everyone's pretty sure things are worse for her under this map than under the last--and I don't want to risk losing one of our few genuine progressive victories of the last few years in the current political climate.

                I'm not afraid Chris will lose in the general; the way in which I think he has been weakened has more to do with building support toward a possible Senate run when Barbara Mikulski retires (or dies).  I see a breaking apart of Chris' strong center of support, with part of it given away to Sarbanes, who also wants to run for that Senate seat.  So, in exchange for loyalty and refraining from running for Paul Sarbanes' seat in '06--and allowing Ben Cardin to run first--Chris is getting those ambitions undermined.  Since I like Chris as a legislator--though he is not as far to the left as I would like, I still respect him--I don't appreciate this lack of appreciation of his team loyalty, nor the establishment nod to John Sarbanes.

                If I seem angry, it's because I feel this map is being used to shift the nature of Democratic politics in MD, to undermine politicians for whom I have more trust to the benefit of politicians for whom I have much less. And it's not necessary.  We can get 8 Democrats with much better maps that have been posted here on this site, some of which have already been linked to in this diary.

                Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:16:47 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  I've recced you (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KingofSpades, terjeanderson, itskevin

          Not necessarily because I endorse Edwards' actions (I'm not sure you do either) but because you give a plausible account of her incentives and motivations, which I think is important for understanding any political (or just human) story.  Edwards didn't wake up one morning and turn evil, she's got a story she's telling herself--we all do.  And Maryland is fertile ground for primary challenges:

          In 2010, state senate elections are being held in 43 states, with 1,167 state senate seats at stake. A total of 19 challengers in 11 states defeated an incumbent state senator, including 12 Democrats and 7 Republicans.
          There was no primary challenger in 708 of the 1,167 state senate districts in play in 2010, leaving 459 districts with a primary. The 19 challengers who toppled an incumbent represent 4.1% of all incumbent-challenger primary contests in 2010, and 1.6% of all state senate seats at stake in the year.
          Six of the victorious challengers were from Maryland. Minnesota, New York and West Virginia each had two successful primary challengers, while Alabama, Arizona, Iowa, South Dakota, Washington, Wisconsin and Nevada had one each.

          http://ballotpedia.org/...

          26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

          by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:20:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Partly Self-Inflicted (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KingofSpades

          Wasn't Edwards advocating going after Bartlett instead of Harris a couple months back, when Hoyer was pushing for the opposite on behalf of his protege Kratovil?

          Sounds like she didn't think things through enough. Its not like everyone doesn't know where the extra Dem votes are and that a foreseeable consequence of cutting Bartlett's district in half was pushing her district out of MoCo.

          But beyond that, someone with a Baltimore-centric seat is going to be moved into some DC burbs, which means that people who represent DC burbs are going to have their turf encroached upon.

          Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

          by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:26:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  it's one of the worst ways to get there (0+ / 0-)

          Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:18:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You need to calm down (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terjeanderson

        And if you can't do that, then you need to step away for a bit. You are obviously incensed about this, but this accusation toward a fellow commenter is just too far.

        Political Director, Daily Kos

        by David Nir on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:36:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The Gov's map is crazy on its face (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      terjeanderson, Zornorph

      That uber-jerrymandered district is my reason for opposing it.  

      But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

      by Rich in PA on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:26:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So what's your proposal? (0+ / 0-)

        Ok, so I read the polls.

        by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:27:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When it comes to redistricting... (0+ / 0-)

          ...I don't think a common-sense observation that a district is totally ridiculous should create an obligation on my part to provide an alternative map.  My alternative is "do a map that doesn't create a district that takes nine hours to traverse, in one of the smallest states in the country."

          But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

          by Rich in PA on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:50:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you look on the right side of DKE (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Answer Guy, jncca

            you will find perhaps a dozen proposed redistricting schemes for Maryland.

            It's not that hard to do. And further, trying your own hand will reveal the various constraints that prevent pretty pictures in most cases.

            Ok, so I read the polls.

            by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:53:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Drawing One's Own Map (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            itskevin, jncca

            ...can really reveal why things are what they are. There's often a fundamental flaw to "prettier" maps that are only made visible when you try to draw one.

            The most frequent problems that come up here re: objections to ugly maps are VRA compliance and the fact that normal settlement patterns means that drawing districts with clean lines as a leading priority usually yields disproportionate seats for Republicans.

            Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

            by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:51:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  What do you think of this map (0+ / 0-)

        http://mdgop.org/...

        (sorry to double post this link but I think it's applicable in both spots).

        •  mhm (0+ / 0-)

          nice big compact districts.  Respects county lines, no weird tentacles.  It would be wonderful if that wasn't also a 4-4 GOP gerrymander, lol.

          In a polarized state like Maryland, any fair Dem map is going to look ugly.

          •  Eh, let's not claim the map is fair. (0+ / 0-)

            I'm not opposed to drawing a D gerrymander in MD. But 7-1 isn't fair. If you wanted a fair map you'd probably have to go for a 5-1-2. Which can be done really cleanly. Republicans get the panhandle, the Eastern Shore, and a shot at a Baltimore County district, Democrats the rest.

            •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Answer Guy

              Once a state is shifted far enough to one political side, it actually requires packing (which is one of the most blatant techniques of gerrymandering) to leave other seats competitive.  Take Massachusetts for instance.  10 seats, all more or less safe Dem, even during tough times nationally for us.  Still, Republicans usually get a third of the vote at least, so shouldn't they get three safe seats?  You could argue that is impossible because Massachusetts Democrats are more evenly distributed.

              But just because Maryland is more clearly polarized across the state doesn't mean Republicans get to have nice 40-45% Obama districts while our incumbents are packed into 70-90% Obama districts (which is what would happen under the map you describe).  That to me is much more obviously unfair, and it's not our fault that Democrats tend to live so close to each other (making packing seem visually pleasing).

              Look at all the GOP gerrymanders around the country, it's the same pattern.  40-45% Obama districts for them, 70-90% Obama districts for us.  That is what is unfair and no map that does that can be called fair, regardless of how it follows county lines or seems to group people by communities of interest.

              •  Not really. I agree with your last point that a (0+ / 0-)

                map is not necessarily fair because it groups CoIs or county lines (well, it's not politically fair).

                But in Maryland the effect you describe, is not as strong that it merits drawing a 7-1 map. Maryland is at best 65-35, more likely 62-38 D. A map that doesn't pack or crack one side should therefore roughly result in a 5.5-2.5 seat outcome over the decade.

                In Massachusetts it's pretty impossible to achieve such an outcome (well, maybe not. You could draw 3 R+ seats, I guess. They'd probably reliably elect Republicans). In almost all states it's not, except for maybe Idaho. Although, even there you could draw a D seat winnable for Minnick.

      •  It's actually quite difficult (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingofSpades

        to draw MD-02 and MD-03 in a way that doesn't look stringy like that, unless Democrats want to actually lose a seat to the GOP by focusing one entirely in Baltimore County (not the city).

        If we draw nice big compact districts in Maryland we will actually lose seats.  That's just the way the state is arranged geographically.

    •  Rec you for your subject line (4+ / 0-)

      I don't care about Edwards personally, a district like hers is always far more likely to elect a liberal than an Al Wynn-type.

      But my first thought as I started reading above was incedulity at the apparent unchallenged assumption that the state leg black caucus would vote in unision for whatever Donna Edwards wants.  I've never thought she was so powerful as all that, and if there's not a clear interest for the black community as a whole in stopping this plan (and I haven't seen anyone point one out), beyond just Edwards' public gripe or private concerns, then she can't count on them.  That MontCo is majority-minority isn't compelling for black Marylanders when it's still a white plurality county where black residents don't dominant the nonwhite population.

      43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

      by DCCyclone on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:28:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, to quote an entirely unrelated piece (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DCCyclone, terjeanderson

        of advice I heard yesterday--it's important to distinguish between accountability and responsibility.  We can hold Edwards accountable for her support and statements if we choose, but that doesn't mean that she is responsible for the plan's success, failure, or alteration.

        26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

        by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:33:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I didn't assume that at all (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terjeanderson, DCCyclone

        In fact, all I said was: "In fact, its 34 members in the House of Delegates would be enough to tip the balance of power to the Republicans, who hold 43 seats to the Democrats' 98."

        Would be enough. Period. Didn't suggest they'd all vote en masse. Didn't suggest Edwards has all these people in her back pocket. Just counting heads and noting that it would be possible for the LBC to thwart this map, if they so choose. Perhaps that's so unlikely that it didn't even bear mentioning, but I'm not willing to go that far.

        Political Director, Daily Kos

        by David Nir on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:40:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  If Edwards insists on keeping her MontCo areas (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SaoMagnifico, geoneb, jncca

      she is ensuring a repeat of the 6-2 map.  There is no other way around it.  Van Hollen still needs his territory and then there is nothing left in MontCo to drag MD-06 into.  So Bartlett skates by, Harris probably gets an even redder district, and we get no gains in one of the few states where we actually get to draw the map this year.

      As far as I'm concerned, that's a much worse outcome than Edwards having to work to retain her seat against a potential primary challenger.  It's not nearly as easy to primary someone out as you and others seem to think.  Typically there has to be a scandal, or some vast ideological difference with the voters in the district.  Think of all the people who have lost primaries in the past few elections.  All of them had done something wrong.

      Edwards is plenty safe with just her PG County areas.

  •  I live in Ohio and saw (6+ / 0-)

    that pro-Issue 2 ad on TV last night.  It confused the hell out of me for a second and I pay close attention!

    I was so angry all I could do was swear at the TV for a while.

    "It's a sin that somehow light is changing to shadow and casting its shroud over all we have known.." - Pink Floyd "On the Turning Away"

    by Coilette on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:38:23 AM PDT

    •  The way it was framed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingofSpades, Christopher Walker

      clearly implied the woman was endorsing keeping SB 5. It showed her talking about the firemen that saved her great-granddaughter and then the smarmy announcer says "She's right — voting no on SB 5 would threaten our safety." Only that is NOT what she said! Lie after lie after lie after lie comes from Ohio Republicans.

      Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

      by anastasia p on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:22:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We've got some really slimy (0+ / 0-)

        Rethuglicans around here.

        What's worse?  Some of the bigger Ohio TV stations are refusing to pull it!

        "It's a sin that somehow light is changing to shadow and casting its shroud over all we have known.." - Pink Floyd "On the Turning Away"

        by Coilette on Thu Oct 13, 2011 at 06:32:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sorry, but the proposed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    filby, Zornorph

    map for Maryland is just bullshit. The link provided allows the viewer to zoom in and take a closer look. I encourage you to do so around Baltimore.

    This kind of crap is exactly what the average voter abhors. Proposed District 3 is simply absurd.

    Form follows function -- Louis Sullivan

    by Spud1 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:41:09 AM PDT

    •  Do you care about pretty pictures (8+ / 0-)

      or winning back the House?

      I'm tired of googoo bullshit like this.

      Ok, so I read the polls.

      by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:42:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I care about good government (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD, Spud1

        Sometimes, you just gotta call an outrage an outrage.

        •  The Republicans have a structural advantage (7+ / 0-)

          in that their voters are distributed more evenly by geography. So if you want pretty pictures, you end up with what is effectively a Republican gerrymander, especially in a place like Maryland.

          Ok, so I read the polls.

          by andgarden on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:50:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It's not much different from the current map (8+ / 0-)

          if you hate ugly districts, please spend your energy complaining about Ohio and North Carolina.

          21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

          by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:06:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  A pretty map doesn't make for good government (11+ / 0-)

          Good government comes from who wins, not the contours of their constituencies.

          More and better Democrats is the path to good government.

          43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

          by DCCyclone on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:33:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  One consideration is that (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BeloitDem

            in the context of safe areas, the question is the quality of the Democrats elected--gerrymandering can keep bad Democrats in and good Democrats out.  And, as I've said, I think a lot of gerrymandering/VRA stories are more about which Democrat/Republican wins, not just how many Democrats/Republicans.  

            I saw an amusing story about a reporter driving through one of the proposed districts, and he said "Rep. Elijah Cummings' district, the 7th, [is] one of four districts drawn a decade ago to amplify the political power of Baltimore. "  I'm not sure, but this might imply that the ugly MD map was drawn to prop up Baltimore at the expense of the D.C. suburbs as well as to elect as many Democrats as possible.  One of my rules of thumb is that state legislators tend to prioritize immediate concerns--their own careers, and then regional/local feuds and power struggles--over national ones.  But that's more from my assumptions about human nature than anything else.

            The story :
            http://www.hometownannapolis.com/...

            26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

            by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:48:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  They've definitely drawn (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KingofSpades

              MD-02, MD-03, and MD-07 to maximize Baltimore's influence.  We get three decently liberal Representatives all from that area, even though the map looks terrible.  Cummings gets just the African-American parts of the city and then some suburbs to the west.  Sarbanes and Ruppersberger get some suburbs to the north plus tendrils into the city itself to make them safe Dem.

              It looks bad, but a more visually pleasing map would just put all of Baltimore City in one district, making a 90% Dem sinkhole and ensuring the other two nearby seats flip to Republican advantages.

              You're right about redistricting being drawn to protect certain incumbents.  In Illinois Lipinski was gearing up to fight back another well-funded primary challenger when the legislature drew the challenger's house of of Lipinski's new district.  The primary challenger abruptly dropped his campaign.

              •  But did they draw them (0+ / 0-)

                to maximize Baltimore to elect more Democrats, or (also) to maximize Baltimore to help with the internal Baltimore/MoCo/PG feud, when other maps might have elected as many Democrats?

                26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

                by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:00:28 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  dunno about that (0+ / 0-)

                  but if PG and Montgomery Counties wants more power in Congress, they should push HARD for an 8-0 map so they can get more people elected.  Splitting the Eastern Shore and attaching part to PG County would give them a great chance at sending another Democrat to Congress.  And as we all know, if Montgomery County wants two Dems in Congress the easiest way is to split MD-06 and MD-08 between it, getting a Montgomery Dem elected in place of Bartlett.

          •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

            Because good government comes from who wins, can't be at least try to make the lines pretty when it suits us?

            21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

            by wwmiv on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:33:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I care about small d-democracy (0+ / 0-)

        as well as about progressive politics

        both look pretty well screwed by this map

        Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:24:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  My response to this is (11+ / 0-)

        (much as I abhor gerrymandering by anyone) "Give us Texas. Then we'll talk." I agree: I'm sick of us saying "let's play nice now" and them saying "We're blowing you up." See: the bit on the ads the right is running to support union-busting SB 5 in Ohio. They will do ANYTHING, legal or not. Gerrymandering is legal and until everyone gives it up, we should not unilaterally disarm. And I say this as one recently recently disturbed after visiting some old family friends at a senior building four blocks from my sister's house and reading a list on the wall of their elected officials: same alderman as my sister, same state rep, same state senator, DIFFERENT CONGRESSMAN. And that is Democratic bullshit (Illinois). But I am in Ohio and I see what the Republicans have done - they have actually jeopardized a few of their own guys to shatter and destroy the big-city Democratic parties. I have no sympathy for "We are better than that" crap. We need to win. Then we can be all high and mighty, I guess.

        Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

        by anastasia p on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:26:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Xenocrypt, Skaje

          Pretty districts are nice. But I care about passing more jobs bills, the Respect for Marriage Act, ENDA, etc. If it takes some fornicating amoebae to get those, so be it.

          21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

          by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:35:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I agree, but (0+ / 0-)

          I don't think this is a problem in practice--where have Democrats really been excessively goo-goo minded with their maps, when they have full legislative control?  They might gerrymander with considerations in mind that we don't like--keeping primary challengers at bay, etc.--but I don't think an unwillingness to gerrymander is the problem with, say, the Arkansas map.  Conflicts within state Democratic parties are.  That's my understanding, at least.

          26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

          by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:57:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It could also be argued (0+ / 0-)

          that only more and more aggressive gerrymanders will finally lead Americans to say "enough is enough" and endorse independent line-drawing or perhaps other restrictions on gerrymandering.

          Texas and Georgia Republicans did mid-decade redistricting to much criticism at the time, but then people forgot about it.  And we got screwed.  But just imagine if all the legislatures that had briefly shifted to our side from 2006 to 2008 had done mid-decade redistricting too.  The outrage would have been so great that something might have actually happened to stop this kind of bullshit.

      •  Nice hat says it better than I could n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Form follows function -- Louis Sullivan

        by Spud1 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:15:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  the map already butchers it. (0+ / 0-)

      That's not going to change in any scenario.

      I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

      by James Allen on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:04:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  How does this map look to you? (0+ / 0-)

      http://mdgop.org/...

      It's a 4-4 but hey, it has very pretty lines right?

  •  she's my rep (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SouthernLiberalinMD

    I live in Montgomery and I want to keep her!

    -9.00, -5.85
    If only stupidity were painful...

    by Wintermute on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:48:48 AM PDT

  •  Edwards' rationale is dubious (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DCCyclone

    Edwards' statement is belied by the fact that the portions of Montgomery County that she represents skew towards whites and Republicans.  The existing district was, in part, the result of a gerrymander designed to defeat Connie Morella by putting the less-Democrat-friendly portions of the county into what was then Al Wynn's safe Democratic district.

    •  Yes, but (0+ / 0-)

      As was pointed out above, in the primaries with Wynn, she was more popular in the MoCo part--at least in the first one.  As it happens, I wrote a diary about it:

      On average, Edwards did better the whiter the precinct's population, and independently from that, she did worse the blacker the precinct's population (several precincts also had significant Asian or Hispanic populations).  
      ...
      Another way to look at this is by county: Just looking at the numbers, Edwards seemed to pretty much romp in Montgomery County (whiter overall) while her performance in Prince George's County was much more varied.

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

      by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:28:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not Repiblican-Skewing (0+ / 0-)

      Not these days. While those areas were taken out of the 8th for exactly the reasons you note, even those areas are pretty pro-Dem now. (And even if they weren't, in a district like this it wouldn't matter.)

      And even that really only applies to the upper half of the MoCo portion of the 4th. The lower half (closer to the Beltway) is pretty strongly blue and it was there where Edwards destroyed Wynn in the Dem primary.

      Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

      by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:57:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  She did beat him (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Skaje

        nearly everywhere in 2008--I'd say it's more like it was there where she almost beat Wynn in 2006.

        26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

        by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:05:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  exactly. and I have no idea why we're attacking (0+ / 0-)

        Donna and defending the map, on a progressive Democratic site.

        Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:28:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Numbers Game (7+ / 0-)

          A machine-oriented candidate is just not going to be able to pull off a primary win over Edwards. There are decent chunks of PG County where most of the electorate is hostile or at best indifferent to that operation. Edwards isn't going to challenged from the left and the challenges from the center/right we've sometimes seen in black majority districts normally rely on a conservative white minority to do the heavy lifting for the challenger.  That won't work here, as there is no part of metropolitan Maryland nearby like that.

          It should go w/o saying that no Republican can win any conceivable version of this district.

          And every Montgomery precinct you have to give the 4th is one you can't use to get Bartlett out of office, or keep Van Hollen in office.  

          Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

          by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:27:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly (0+ / 0-)

            Dropping the Montgomery County portions of MD-04 is the only way to get Bartlett out of office.  There is no way to keep both Van Hollen and Edwards in Montgomery and then somehow find other Democrats to flip Bartlett's seat.

            And seeing as how they've already given up on trying to weaken Andy Harris, it's either Bartlett or nothing.

        •  because the plan is good for Democrats (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sapelcovits

          Because the redistricting proposal is good for Democrats, and because the notion of "minority voting rights interests" is facile in a place as diverse as Montgomery County.  This is simply not an area in which there is a unified bloc of minority voters with convergent interests that will be underrepresented if the county is split across three districts, regardless of the race of the people who wind up representing those three districts.

          Don't get me wrong.  I like Edwards.  I live in the Montgomery County portion of MD-04 and have voted for her repeatedly now.  But the reality is that the districts are already gerrymandered, and the Montgomery County portions of her district don't have a huge amount in common with the Prince George's County core.  I don't have much reason to believe Edwards represents me, or most other people in this part of Montgomery County, any better than another Democrat, of any race, would.  I'm glad she's in Congress, but I'd rather do what's necessary to unseat Bartlett.

      •  Comparatively speaking (0+ / 0-)

        I should rephrase--it's not that it's Republican-skewing in the sense of being majority-Republican, but it's probably both more Republican than the MoCo average and than the MD-04 average.  

        (I don't get the sense that the local politics have changed all that much since these areas were first put in MD-04.)

    •  there are plenty of white liberal Democrats in (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Xenocrypt

      District 4.  Having participated in two winning elections in that district, I think I can safely say that.

      Are there also a fair number of moderate Republican suburbanites?  Yes.

      But there's also Hyattsville and the bottom of the district which is heavily blue-color, not at all necessarily majority white, and left-wing.

      Trust me, I just ran a winning campaign in (state) District 14, which almost exactly maps onto District 4.  This is an extremely diverse district, and saying it skews towards whites and Republicans is a seriously limited view.

      Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:27:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Presidential red, democratic history (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SouthernINDem, David Nir, xcave, itskevin

    How about calling them legacy districts?

    Reporting from Tea Bagger occupied America

    by DrJohnB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:58:41 AM PDT

  •  Surprised the NRA hasn't endorsed Beshear (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drhoosierdem

    as they typically like to pick winners.

  •  Maryland redistricting should not be this hard (4+ / 0-)

    Hell, we've had multiple maps drawn here that would make MD a 7-1 delegation, keep Donna Edwards happy, have two VRA districts, and not have a proposed 2nd or 3rd Congressional District that looks like they were drawn by a kindergardner on crack.

  •  Elizabeth Warren in Vanity Fair (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, itskevin

    25, Male, CA-24, DK Elections Black Caucus Chair.

    by DrPhillips on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:24:40 AM PDT

  •  OH SB5 ad - please sign this petition (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anastasia p, itskevin, LordMike

    urging local TV stations to pull this ad off the air. It's already worked with a number of stations.

    Do you think these "Better Ohio" slimeballs even have great-grandmothers?

  •  PPP voting open! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KingofSpades, LordMike

    I voted for Wisconsin, because I had the freaking option. I couldn't help myself.

    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/

    19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren for Senate!

    by ndrwmls10 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:35:23 AM PDT

  •  Rick Perry is worse than I thought (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Xenocrypt, itskevin

    It's no shock in general terms that Perry is a poor debater, because that was reported outright when he entered the race, before his first debate.

    But he's been worse than anyone expected.

    Last night was less bad for him, but the only good thing that can be said is that debates are less important to his chances than his big fat bank account that no one but Romney can match.

    I still think Perry recovers and is truly in a tossup with Romney, because there's no alternative with a serious campaign.  Cain isn't running a serious campaign, and he doesn't have deep-pocketed surrogates, or in-state Iowa evangelicals and home-schoolers, making plans to create any campaign infrastructure for him.  No one else has organization or money.  And Romney hasn't made a serious play for Iowa.  So I think Perry ends up winning there, getting his mojo back, and later winning South Carolina before the big Florida showdown.

    As long as Perry can keep raising money, he's in good shape.

    43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

    by DCCyclone on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:38:21 AM PDT

    •  I expect (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BeloitDem, LordMike

      I actually expect that his fundraising has taken a major hit. His early money will have been the proverbial 'low hanging fruit' and the major money people are all moving to Romney. If Perry was showing momentum, he'd still be getting money, but most of what he pulled in was when he was a frontrunner. With him flailing about, I expect it'll be much harder to pull in big bucks. No one wants to back a loser.

      I am Zornorph; the one who comes by night to the neighbor's yard.

      by Zornorph on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:19:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't assume that, since post-Orlando... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NMLib

        ...he actually increased his daily average dollars.  So his first bad debate didn't hurt him at all.

        Perry has been around for a long time, 21 years a statewide elected and the last 10 as Governor in what has become America's 2nd-largest state.  The money one can get from that stature doesn't dry up very quickly if the guy is willing to trudge through call time everyday, which Perry appears willing to do.

        I'll believe Perry's money is drying up when it's actually drying up.

        He's got a great argument for donors:  mine!  It's simply that there's huge demand for a more conservative alternative to Romney, and only Perry can fill that void.  It's easy to argue that the rest should be dismissed.  Indeed, I did just that in an e-mail to Josh Marshall of TPM that he quoted here (yes I'm "JR"):  http://talkingpointsmemo.com/...

        43, male, Indian-American, married and proud father of a girl and a boy, Democrat, VA-10

        by DCCyclone on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:24:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  UGH (0+ / 0-)

      He was AWFUL last night.

      21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

      by wwmiv on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:34:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And that is a shame (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LordMike

        Because there goes pretty much the last best hope at a long dragged-out process for the Republican Primary. If Romney wins New Hampshire AND Iowa (which may be done by New Years for all we know), the nomination process is over.

    •  Rasmussen just released a "poll"... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DCCyclone

      Showing Obama trouncing Perry...  They are all trying to get Perry out.  He's been effectively Palinized already.

      GODSPEED TO THE WISCONSIN FOURTEEN!

      by LordMike on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:58:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  On Arizona AIRC: (5+ / 0-)

    The AIRC twitter account @azredistricting reports that at the first hearing on the draft maps in central Phoenix, the audience broke into applause at the conclusion of the meeting.

    Comments were peppered between calls for more competitiveness, community requests, thanks, and reduced hyperpartisanship (don't know exactly who that was directed towards).

    It will only get tougher as the next meetings move out to rural areas, unfortunately.

    Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    by AZ Independent on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:40:24 AM PDT

  •  Shocker in France (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Allen, KingofSpades

    I didn't think I would ever see this in the Socialist 2nd round, but Ségolène Royal endorsed her former partner François Hollande. He now has her support, Manuel Valls, and Jean-Michel Baylet. Only Arnaud Montebourg has not endorsed (he got 17%).

    After their bitter separation, wo would have thought Royal would throw her support behind Hollande? This is not good for Martine Aubrey.

    http://www.france24.com/...

    "So there's a time for silence, and there's a time for waiting your turn. But if you know how you feel, and you so clearly know what you need to say, you'll know it. I don't think you should wait. I think you should speak now." -Taylor Swift

    by SouthernINDem on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:43:23 AM PDT

  •  Ron Gould- (0+ / 0-)

    (I almost typed Goauld... I'm a nerd)

    He was a Tea Party conservative before there was a Tea Party- BUT...

    He has a small independent streak and has before bucked Republican leadership to make his point (especially regarding the recent ethics case against Scott Bundgaard).

    I think he'll play well for the rural district, but may have a big challenge if Schweikert's Fountain Hills stays in the mix (Instead of duking it out with Quayle, as he's said, he may recant and take on Gould).

    At the very least, Gould is a perspective pain in the Republican party establishment's ass (in DC), very much unlike Trent Franks.

    Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    by AZ Independent on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 07:55:46 AM PDT

    •  I was amazed to read Trent Franks' bio (5+ / 0-)

      I often spend time trying to find people who were active in multiple creditable/progressive movements and accomplishments.  Franks is like the Bizarro World version--working for Pat Buchanan and Evan Meacham and starting "the Arizona Family Research Institute, a nonprofit organization affiliated with James Dobson's Focus on the Family" and a ballot measure activist.  You should have seen my BF's reaction to his line about abortion being worse for black people than slavery.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

      26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

      by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:03:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, he was my Rep. b4 I moved (0+ / 0-)

        He's an oil co exec too.

        There are really no words to describe just how messed up this guy is.

        The only reason he got in to Congress anyways was because he won the Republican primary after Bob Stump retired (much in the same way the peanut- Ben Quayle- won his). He's really an accident of the fact that he's been in a safe district for his entire Congressional life. I hope to God that someone will primary his ass in the new, more compact CD8. They're not as nutty as the folks in the hinterlands.

        Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        by AZ Independent on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:10:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But how much has the voting population changed? (0+ / 0-)

          AZ has such uneven population density that districts seem to be able to change a great deal visually without changing their voters that much.  From his Wiki: "The district takes in the entire northwestern corner of the state, including Kingman and Lake Havasu City, but most of its vote is cast in the western Phoenix suburbs."

          26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

          by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:15:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He lost the southwest valley (0+ / 0-)

            Including Republican Buckeye.

            He made the slave comments up in Mohave County, FWIW.

            The more time he spends down here, I have a feeling that his indies and whatever is left of the sane Republicans will not like what they see.

            He can't hide when there are plenty of strong Maricopa County players who know the area well...

            Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

            by AZ Independent on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:23:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  That (0+ / 0-)

          and his rattlesnake fence was just too sexy for the opposition.

    •  Wait (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen

      You think Schweikert could run in the 4th? As things stand, his current district barely overlaps with it. The 4th really is kind of a no-man's land.

      Political Director, Daily Kos

      by David Nir on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:47:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  AZ4 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        James Allen

        The new AZ4 has at least part of Fountain Hills, which is where he's from. Most of his old district is in the new AZ9, which went for Kerry and would probably be hopeless for him. The new AZ6 makes the most sense for him as he should easily beat Quayle.

        SSP poster. 42, CA-5, -0.25/-3.90

        by sacman701 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:00:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's assuming Quayle will run there (0+ / 0-)

          The AIRC maps aren't final, so we'll have to wait to see. It could give plenty of cover for a game of musical districts to protect the incumbents.

          Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

          by AZ Independent on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:13:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Keep in mind Franks is from Surprise/Glendale (0+ / 0-)

        and represents Mohave County.

        Whoever wins the Republican primary, wins the general.

        Schweikert has the Fountain Hills Tea Party base and, could theoretically come out on top.

        Its not impossible.

        District overlap is hardly an issue- the primary is. And with Schweikert's Tea Party cred, he's a contender. I wouldn't hold my breath on him switching though.

        Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        by AZ Independent on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:11:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  We had resistance to FairDistricts here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    drachaCRO, James Allen

    in Florida from certain black representatives for similar reasons. Majority-minority districts can be as harmful to fair representation of minority interests as blatantly racist districting, especially when it concentrates large supermajorities of minorities into a single district instead of having large pluralities or smaller majorities in several.

    •  Majority-minority districts are mandated by VRA (0+ / 0-)

      and has nothing to do with the Florida fair redistricting ballot measure. And it's not like the FL GOP wouldn't just pack blacks anways wherever they can...

    •  How exactly is a minority-majority district (0+ / 0-)

      harmful to minorities?

      19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren for Senate!

      by ndrwmls10 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:48:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If minorities are packed into (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingofSpades, Skaje, jncca

        one district, making the surrounding 3-4 districts safe R, and then they go on to elect teabaggers who vote against renewing Section 5 of the VRA.

        21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

        by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:00:36 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  A super packed one is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JustinBinFL

        As was mentioned in the comment. If you have a 99% black district surrounded by Three 30% black districts instead of Four majority-black districts, that is harmful to the black community from a representation standpoint. This is true particularly in the South.

        •  I've never seen a 99% black district. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Xenocrypt

          I've seen a few districts in the 60% zone. I think anything above 65% would be bad deal for minorities.

          19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren for Senate!

          by ndrwmls10 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:25:34 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  IL-01 was around 65% black in 2000 (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Xenocrypt

            but yeah, if there is proof that a minority-majority district that can be drawn to fit the Gingles criteria is not being drawn due to astronomically high minority %s in surrounding districts, I think that is grounds for a VRA or 14th Amendment-based challenge.

            21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

            by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:31:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You could use the Rio Grande Valley (4+ / 0-)

            If you replace Black with Hispanic. You could draw one 94% Hispanic district, and 3 white plurality districts (which in Texas, is Safe R). But instead, they have to draw 3 Hispanic districts because they got their hand caught in the cookie jar in 06.

            •  I think ndrwmls meant that (0+ / 0-)

              such districts aren't drawn, and aren't really demanded by the VRA or minority politicians--which I agree with--not that they aren't theoretically possible.  As I've said, I've never seen an argument that the VRA or majority-minority districts are, looking at the whole nation and how maps are drawn in practice, a net negative for Democrats.

              26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

              by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:52:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The VRA is good for Democrats (0+ / 0-)

                it keeps us from getting shut out in Deep South states.  People have argued that Republicans use it to pack Democrats but they would do that anyway when they have control.  When Democrats have control it does constrain us in certain cases but there are usually ways to respect the VRA without packing ourselves into 90% Dem vote sinks.  The best proposals in Maryland involve using the VRA seats to eat up super-conservative precincts.

                •  No, the VRA is horrible for Democrats (0+ / 0-)

                  What kind of map would Republicans draw in SC? 6-1, most likely. They wouldn't want to endanger their seats.

                  Imagine what a GA map could do if we ever got to gerrymander. Bishop might be in some danger, but it's not like they are going to do anything to the Atlanta districts. In North Carolina, the Republicans almost surely would have drawn 2 Black districts or had a dummymander.

          •  Maryland Legislature Has A Few (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Skaje

            The districts covering central and southwestern Prince Georges County - I think they're numbered 24 and 26 - are at or near 90% black. The zone in the county where there is almost no non-black population is big enough that you'd need to draw some oddly shaped districts not to have a district or two that was that concentrated.

            Roughly speaking, the area of the county inside the Beltway and south of US 50 is nearly 100% black. The northern part of the county is highly diverse, including a sizable Latino community.

            You could probably make a 70+ percent black district in Maryland using central PG as a base. The county is a little more populous than a CD so you'd just try to carve out some northern precincts and a few southern and eastern ones that still have sizable white populations.

            Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

            by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 12:04:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Districts 24, 25, and 26 (0+ / 0-)

              all in central/southwest PG, are 79, 88, and 80% black, respectively, at least as DRA told me when I plugged them (and all the other current districts in the state) in.  The black percentages in 24 and 26 have actually declined a bit over the last decade with a rise in Latinos.

              Elsewhere, there are four districts in Baltimore City and County that are 80%+ African American (Districts 10, 40, 41, and 45), but they are underpopulated compared to the Washington suburban districts.

            •  I made a 4-4 GOP gerrymander of Maryland for fun (0+ / 0-)

              and yeah the PG County seat shoots up to 73% Black, and was won by 90.5% to 8.9% by Obama.  Damn.

  •  stealing elections (anything at all) not something (0+ / 0-)

    TEA/GOP would do!

    Every time the Republican candidates are on stage together they prove that as bad as things are now, under a TEA/GOP president, they would be much, much worse.

    by anyname on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:20:01 AM PDT

  •  "Dixiecrat"? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stevenaxelrod
    This is a red-on-the-presidential-level-but-ancestrally-Dem district which will be a tough but not impossible hold. (By the way, we need a short-hand name for that kind of district. Ideas?)
    Maybe I'm fixating on the fact that OK-2 includes SE OK, which is commonly referred to as "Little Dixie", but it was one of those CDs where 2008 Obama ran worse than 2004 Kerry (also common in Appalachia, IIRC).  I still maintain that the "ancestrally-Democrat-ness" goes back to when the Republicans were--literally--the Party of Lincoln.  

    The Bryan County courthouse in Durant, in SE OK (and former Sen. Corn's base), has a marble statue commemorating the southern cause in the American Civil War.  (Yes, Oklahoma was still Indian Territory during the war).

    I guess my main point is that these Blue Dog districts aren't electing the Barney Franks of the world.

    "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

    by bartcopfan on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:20:55 AM PDT

    •  Dixiecrat (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bartcopfan

      I suggested that yesterday, and there were some seconds, but I think David took a pass so as not to sound mean spirited.

      21, Nice Calm Burkean Post-Modern Gay Democrat; NM-2 (Childhood), TX-23 (School), TX-10 (Home); SSP: wmayes

      by wwmiv on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:36:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bartcopfan

        It's not a bad idea, but the phrase is a little too freighted. Also, there are odd exceptions like NY-09 which kind of fit into this pattern, too, and it would be weird to call that a "Dixiecrat District." (Then again, NY-09 may be unique in the country.)

        Political Director, Daily Kos

        by David Nir on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:49:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's not just NY-09 per se (0+ / 0-)

          it's basically all of the heavily white areas of Brooklyn and Queens. I think they've discussed this a lot over at RRH. NY-05 also appears to be (slowly) trending R, and NY-08's Brooklyn parts probably are too, even if they are drowned out by the Upper West Side. I think NY-09 is just where it's happening the quickest.

          21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

          by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:03:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Good points, everyone! (0+ / 0-)

        "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

        by bartcopfan on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:08:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Dixiecrats (0+ / 0-)

        I guess I have no problem with the term. In and of itself it is pretty innocuous. And Let's be honest, we need to have seats in Texas, North Carolina, Florida, and Georgia to have a majority in the House. And if the term endears local voters to the  Democrats, albeit relatively conservative ones, I am alright with it.

    •  OK-2 (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bartcopfan

      It's interesting that they weren't always opposed to all flat-out liberals. Mike Synar did hold on to this seat for 16 years until he was ousted in the 1994 Democratic primary. But I guess the 1980s were a different time.

      •  Nice & accurate recollection; also, redistricting. (0+ / 0-)

        "Little Dixie" was OK-3 for generations and its representation included "The Little Giant", former Speaker Carl Albert.  Synar's old OK-2 was based around Muskogee (~central eastern OK), w/ OK-3 in the far SE.  Now they've been lumped together; OK-2 now goes from TX to KS in an eastern OK strip.

        As I think about it, perhaps our salvation there (to the extent it exists) is going to be returning to our populist (and progressive) roots, e.g. OWS.  After all, the already-referenced Bryan County is named in honor of William Jennings Bryan, whose subsequent anti-evolutionism (he was the pro-creationist lawyer in the Scopes Trial), as I understand it, was based in anti-Social Darwinism.

        "Push the button, Max!" Jack Lemmon as Professor Fate, The Great Race

        by bartcopfan on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:07:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  How about red-white-and-blue district? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SaoMagnifico

      Red on the presidential level, blue on the local level, and white racially? Or just a "flag" district for succinctness. "Dixiecrat" instantly gets an idea across, but it's an idea that doesn't always apply. "Red-white-and-blue" gets an idea across that's more generally applicable, though it lacks succinctness and doesn't exactly work for NY-9.

  •  Has Elijah Cummings said anything? (0+ / 0-)

    One would think he'd carry far more weight with the MD LBC than Edwards.  And seriously, Edwards, I liked you and then you turn into JJJ with your paranoid fears of a primary from Prince George County.  You don't want to actually make good with the people there and win their support?  If Barrow could find his niche after mid-decade redistricting in Georgia, you can do likewise.

    'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

    by KingofSpades on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:13:41 AM PDT

    •  I want to know how much (0+ / 0-)

      other incumbents districts changed. Every incumbent has a vital self interest in protecting themselves. It's not okay when a white Democrat does it, but no one really says anything, ever. When an AA Democrat does it, it's like they are the new anti-Christ. I'm not saying Edwards is in the right. I don't actually think she is, but I'm not going to go around saying she should be primaried or I can't stand her. I tend to look at the bigger picture.

      19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren for Senate!

      by ndrwmls10 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:19:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't want a primary either (0+ / 0-)

        but that doesn't immune her from criticism.  She wanted to bring down Bartlett, but she wants to keep a foothold in Montgomery Co.

        'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

        by KingofSpades on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:20:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I didn't say she wasn't immune (0+ / 0-)

          from criticism. I said that the criticism is never applied fairly. It always seems members of the CBC are convenient scape goats. The behavior that Edwards is exhibiting can be seen in most incumbents.

          19, Chairman DKE Gay Caucus, male, Dem, (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09) Tammy Baldwin and Elizabeth Warren for Senate!

          by ndrwmls10 on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:24:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think she's trying to have it both ways (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SaoMagnifico, itskevin, KingofSpades

          She wants a good chunk of Montgomery County, but is willing to oust Bartlett.  But then where does Van Hollen go?  Unless you're willing to play with touchpoint contiguity (with two districts meeting in a four corners type situation), Van Hollen then couldn't go north into Frederick and Carroll counties, and to maintain Edwards' black majority he'd have to keep almost all of south, west, and/or central Montgomery--in other words, very similar to the current map.

          Meanwhile, over at RRH they say that the 6th as currently proposed is winnable for the "right Republican"?  Exactly who might that be?  A GOP primary there would likely be dominated by hard core tea partiers and rural voters, producing a nominee who Montgomery voters would vote against en masse and would likely also lose Frederick and Hagerstown, and there wouldn't be enough Panhandle rural votes to bail them out.  (A clearly moderate Republican may stand a chance in the general, but probably not in the primary.)

          •  I don't believe for a second (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mike in MD, SaoMagnifico

            that they can hold a 56% Obama district based in the panhandle and Montgomery, not even in a GOP wave election.  Bartlett would have lost under those lines last year.  He only outpaced the McCain percentage by a little bit.  He has no crossover support and neither would any of his likely successors from the panhandle.

      •  As I noted below (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Xenocrypt, KingofSpades

        Bob Brady also did it in Pennsylvania. I don't think anyone here is happy about that either. However, it's worse in Maryland because here we can actually draw a good map. In PA we are fucked no matter what.

        21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

        by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:33:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think anyone is so naive as to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SaoMagnifico, KingofSpades

        attack Edwards for behaving with self-interest in mind.  People are attacking her because she's come out publicly against a Dem plan and because they think she is calculating her self-interest badly--overly cautiously, or narrowly.

        Chris Van Hollen got attacked on this board when people thought he was going to try to water down the map.  As sapel says, Bob Brady got attacked too.  It is the case, as you say, that there is a tension in the Democratic party sometimes between maximizing Dem seats and maximizing minority representation--although I agree with andgarden that usually a happy medium can be found.  Certainly, people on this board, overall, likely care most about maximizing Dem seats.  

        But I think you need to come up with an example or two of white Dem incumbents publicly attacking Dem maps in a way that suggests weaker maps and not being attacked for it on here to support your claim that "It's not okay when a white Democrat does it, but no one really says anything, ever."

        26, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

        by Xenocrypt on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:49:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The AAs Tend To Have Safe Seats (7+ / 0-)

        I think this why white Dems get more latitude to complain about their districts. Someone who whines about his/her D+28 seat being pared down to D+24 (which is typical for a black House member and rare for a white one) is going to get a lot more grief from me than someone who stands to drop from D+3 to R+1 would.

        Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

        by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:46:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I understand the concern (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jncca

        but it really just centers around Democrats in super-Dem seats not being willing to dilute their seats a bit to help out other Democrats.  The three most notable examples this year have been Lacy Clay in Missouri (pressured his allies to override Gov. Nixon's veto of the GOP gerrymander, thereby giving him a super-safe packed seat and screwing Rep. Carnahan), Corrine Brown in Florida (joining the GOP lawsuit to overturn the fair districts initiative in one of the worst gerrymandered states in the country), and now Donna Edwards (publicly opposing map because she loses  Montgomery County areas that are absolutely essential to flipping Bartlett's seat, when she currently has an 84% Obama seat).

        It also just happens that all three of them are African-American.  So I get that it looks bad, but all three of them really do deserve every bit of criticism they are getting.  I really can't think of many other Democrats (white or black) besides the three of them, who have taken such steps to aggressively help Republicans during this redistricting process.  It goes way beyond them merely complaining (as some other incumbents have done).  They have actually taken concrete steps to hurt Democratic chances in the new districts.

      •  It's not anti-Christ for African Americans to do (0+ / 0-)

        this.

        I'm still furious about Mike Ross - drawing his district to hurt him, and then retiring and making us have no chance to hold the seat.

        But sadly, African Americans have been the one's helping the GOP in redistricting this year. Sad.

        •  Yes, exactly. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SaoMagnifico

          Ross was a chicken-hearted coward who wanted the easy way out when he realized he'd have to get off his ass and campaign vigorously in this slightly harder district.  Makes me root even harder for McDaniels to run and win the primary.

          'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

          by KingofSpades on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:27:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Ironically (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SaoMagnifico

      (because he got a "better" district) meh-ish kinda-moderate-sometimes Dem Cummings is more supportive of this map than progressive darling Edwards.

      21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

      by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:38:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  FL-22 (0+ / 0-)

    Allen West pulls in 1.9 million for 3Q - 4.1million COH.

    http://www.tampabay.com/...

    I am Zornorph; the one who comes by night to the neighbor's yard.

    by Zornorph on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:47:26 AM PDT

  •  Make Hoyer's district 50% minority (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe then he can be taken out in a primary.  He'll always be able to get a job with the DLC, the Chamber of Commerce or AIPAC.

    “If you think I can be bought for five thousand dollars, I'm offended." Rick Perry.

    by Paleo on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:51:42 AM PDT

  •  I live in Maryland and I'm appalled (0+ / 0-)

    The Third District is just an abomination all the way around.  Take a look at this thing (map here:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/...)

    The district is not contiguous in any way, shape or form.  It was just a way for John Sarbanes to draw himself a district encompassing Baltimore, Annapolis and D.C. 'burbs, maybe t get himself ready for a Senate run when Mikulski ends her run.

    I live in Olney, in Donna's district and am a supporter of hers.  She gets rapped continually that she doesn't pay enough attention to Montgomery County and she's from the county next door.  Does anyone think someone from Baltimore will give a rat's ass about my part of the world?  Hell, no.

    We in MoCo got screwed by getting split up three ways, with the potential of losing Donna, getting some Balto bozo and still losing the Eastern Shore.  This was a total screwup from the getgo.

    •  Cool story bro. (7+ / 0-)

      Tell Texas and NC to draw fair maps and then we'll talk

      'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.' -Mahatma Gandhi

      by KingofSpades on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:25:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is contiguous (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      andgarden, itskevin, askew

      Water continuity is very much allowed. It is ugly as sin though.

    •  There are worse districts (6+ / 0-)

      The idiocy of the Ohio map far outdoes Maryland's map. One district goes from downtown Columbus all the way around to Athens and some rural counties even further out.

      25, Male, CA-24, DK Elections Black Caucus Chair.

      by DrPhillips on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:31:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Montgomery County is too big (4+ / 0-)

      for one district, so it has to get split up at least two ways no matter what. Also MoCo is split three ways in the current map (MD-04, -06, -08).

      21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

      by sapelcovits on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 10:34:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Baltimore and MoCo (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KingofSpades, SaoMagnifico, itskevin

      Population shifts being what they are, someone with a Baltimore-centric district is going to wind up representing some constituents with a 301 area code no matter how you slice it.

      There are other ways besides putting Olney in the 3rd but Sarbanes already represents parts of Columbia so its not like the district is being flown in from the Shore.

      Stuck Between Stations : Thoughts from a bottomless pool of useless information.

      by Answer Guy on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 11:18:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's more that the DC and Baltimore areas (0+ / 0-)

        have in common than some think.  Montgomery has a lot more in common with the Baltimore area than with the Western Panhandle, yet the three westernmost counties are proposed to be in a district with half its residents in Montgomery, so it's hard to roll eyes about that by comparison.

        That's not to say that the 3rd is ideal by any standard, but I guess it's OK as a means to try and achieve the stated goals of state redistricting.  However, the complaining from Rep. Edwards and a clutch of Montgomery officials, as well as some others throws this whole arrangement into doubt.

        One thing of note: whatever redistricting plan is submitted and voted on will be considered under a rule which designates it "emergency legislation", and under which 3/5 majorities are needed for it to pass.  With that in effect, only 13 Democrats in the House and 6 in the Senate can vote against it for it to pass (assuming the GOPers all vote no.)

    •  Montgomery County (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SaoMagnifico

      would actually be favored to send 2 Democrats to Congress under that plan, compared to only Van Hollen right now.  Really I don't get all the fuss.  This map is great for Montgomery County representation.

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