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This rant is currently making it's way through the African American circles of Google+ and Facebook. I'm posting it here for awareness, in my circles I'm hearing a lot about what role African Americans are supposed to play in this melee / movement...a lot of questions...in fact more questions than answers.

Maybe someone will see this and correct the situation...if it can be corrected.

These are not my words....a link to the original post is at the bottom

A Black Woman Who Occupied Wall Street: Why I Won't Be Going Back.
by Reena Walker on Friday, October 14, 2011 at 4:38pm

The days I spent at the Occupy Wall Street action in the park were harrowing to say the least. The racism is rampant. There is no regard for the need to factor in black issues or empowerment nor is black leadership in actuality encouraged or welcome, even though they claim it is. There are many white men there are very domineering, controlling, demeaning, sarcastic, condescending and do not make black women feel safe, welcome, empowered, appreciated or protected. They have no regard for black people or women.

Women are being molested in the park and there is no real viable system in place to handle it without the need for police intervention. There are white supremacists groups running around there. There are people smoking drugs there even though it puts the entire action at risk and even after being told that the General Assembly had consensus on the fact that there should be no smoking of cigarettes as they are not only a health hazard to everyone and gives support to the tobacco companies, but also a potential fire hazard, people continue to smoke with no regard for their fellow protesters.

There is a constant marginalization of women and I was even verbally and physically imposed on and threatened by a white man who was up in my face with his fingers pointing in my face because he wanted to dictate to people what he thought they should do. When I spoke up and said that he and two other white men are not supposed to dictate to everyone what should happen but that the decision should be made through consensus he got angry. He proclaimed that he called the meeting, as if that is somehow relevant. He also got angry because I as a black woman told him that he was wrong for trying to dictate to people. Not only that but I also offered to facilitate after other people didn't step up as things were confusing and out of control. There was no complaint about my facilitation and we actually got down to there being three points to vote on after hearing everyone voice their opinion after I did. Of course another white man felt that he was the one who should be facilitating so I said "fine you do it" but I also asked if there was a woman who had facilitating training as well and the men started to all say why does it matter if its a woman?

After they began to facilitate, everything got out of control, the group split off into factions and there was no more cohesiveness. The man who called the meeting subsequently came over to me as I was standing on the side having a conversation with two people. He took a very domineering stance and was standing with his face right in front of mine pointing his fingers at me telling me that I will never facilitate again and he was in charge. I barely heard what he was saying as all I kept saying to him was "back up." He was threatening and I could see that he wanted to actually hit me. I threw my bag on the ground and said come on if you want to throw down. Then people pulled us apart. He might have been able to hit me but I would have given him a run for his money. I was so angry and when a black man I met there came over I was telling him what happened. Another white guy steps in between us and proceeds to explain to him what happened in order to protect the other white man. I told him he is in no position to explain to anyone what happened to me and he is being rude. The arrogance of these men is just unbelievable! The black man and I walked down the street together and he calmed me down.

This is the type of thing that goes on, but its okay and sponsored because within the confines of this movement, white people are still acceptably in charge, arrogant and superior. In other words, you can have all of the experience in the world as an organizer, activist or facilitator but if you are not a white man then its a problem. If you are a white man, even though you don't have any experience, don't know how to run a meeting (which I saw happen several different times), are not very bright and don't even know how to be an organizer, its acceptable and fine, even if the meeting isn't fruitful and doesn't result in anything.

They get bogged down in minutiae and say a million things at these meetings, yet there is no follow through on anything, which makes the meetings a complete waste of time and energy. If these people claim this is what they are supposedly fighting against, in the corporate world, then they have a very weird way of showing it. Their behavior makes one feel invalidated and it also doesn't give a strong showing of support to the people who they are supposedly standing up for.

There was another incident with a group of white people at the west end of the park who, when I asked them to help get the area organized, (which was an absolute mess and a fire hazard) began to harass me, taunt me and verbally be abusive. I still went on to gather others who wanted to help with the huge task of organizing this filthy and very disorganized space and they continued to level verbal assaults. They continued to defiantly smoke and light up cigarettes and be obnoxious and continued to harass until I got fed up and told this one girl, who was pushing me to the limit, that she should step up and bring it if she wanted to fight. I went on to curse her out and I let everyone there know that I will not be abused by some stupid white bitch. I really could care less who doesn't like it but if you push things too far they have to learn that it won't be tolerated by everyone. They also have to learn that black people are not going to let them speak to us in any type of manner they choose. I don't know what the agenda of these white people are but their paternalistic attitudes, constant invalidation, smart remarks and repressive behavior toward myself and other black people is not productive nor is it liberating.

There also needs to be said here something about the passive black people there who speak in a white vernacular and want to be white or sleep with white people so badly that they have no black consciousness at all. They really need a wake up call. They have no real desire to be supportive of black people nor do they want to be associated with anything that is truly about the struggle that REAL black people face and basically, will stand there and side with these white people even if they see another black person being attacked, and then blame the black person, which is what happened at the time that these white people were treating me this way. This black girl who was much darker than me, who spoke like a blonde girl on a beach, asked me to leave instead of even listening to me or finding out what happened. She was so concerned about keeping the white folks happy that she wasn't even concerned about my well being or my position on the matter. Who stole the soul is right.

Another insulting situation that happened was a white man coming up to me at the GA giving me a flyer that read "Occupy Harlem". I told him Harlem is already occupied by him and all of these white people coming uptown pushing black folks out of their homes and to word something like that in that way without consideration and then give me another flyer along with that with a bunch of white faces on it was highly insulting. He goes on to tell me he has lived in Harlem for years and his daughter is black, like that is even remotely relevant, and then refused to listen to my concerns because he lives in Harlem. Then he said he doesn't understand why black people are attacking him when he presents this to them and he has been attacked five times already that day. I told him that the fact that he doesn't understand why he is being attacked, is all the more reason why he shouldn't be in charge of an action like that. This is another example of the paternalistic attitudes that exists amongst these white people who think they are automatically in charge and not only that but are somehow in a position to articulate my oppression as a black woman for me

I came away from this experience feeling unsupported, disrespected, maligned and even more oppressed. There is no real regard for oppressed black people there and many of these people are there at Occupy Wall Street for the novelty of it. They have no idea that this stance they are taking is dealing with very real problems that we as black people face every day. This is not a parade or a party or a game for us and if we are there, we are there because it is very serious for us and standing up to these companies and oppressive forces is about standing up for our lives. We don't have rich white parents and communities to run home to after the whole thing ends. We don't have safety nets like they do. The unemployment crisis in the black community is far more of a crisis for the people of our community than it is for them.

This disgusting display of white superiority and male dominance exists throughout this OWS movement. The only bright spot in all of this was the newly formed Women Occupying Wall Street (WOW) group. These women were informed, supportive and concerned about the issues I and other women raised and also had been subjected to abusive behaviors themselves. The meeting that was held by them was actually the only well run and sane meeting that I had attended the whole time I was there, outside of a few of the General Assembly meetings. I drafted a mission statement for them and gave some helpful suggestions. I wish them well and will give my support and I hope they can make a dent. It is unfortunate that I cannot participate any longer though because I have learned long ago to no longer remain in abusive constructs for the sake of unity. It is not worth my sanity or my health.

I say we as black people have to be self-determined and self-defined. White people cannot articulate our oppression. We cannot be a part of movements that are lead by them and be marginalized. We cannot continue to allow the rampant disrespect to continue in the name of some sort of unity. I say we begin to as BLACK PEOPLE and not, "people of color", create define, organize and stand firm in our own movements to articulate our oppression and address it. Only then can we truly be effective and affect change.

Reena Walker

Originally posted to bruddaone on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 10:25 PM PDT.

Also republished by Occupy Wall Street, ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement, and Progressive Hippie.

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Comment Preferences

  •  # removed from tag (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debedb, dkmich, angelajean

    Anytime a # is used in a tag it creates a broken link.

  •  That's real spit. (11+ / 0-)

    I can imagine there's a lot of underlying racist crap going on, because I'm sure there are a shit ton of people pissed of at the President who don't know how not to let their racism fuck up the flavor.

    It's a shame really.  OWS is a really inspiring movement.  Too bad it's marred by that bullshit.

    Tipped and rec'd.

    •  Yea....there was a diary earlier pointing out... (5+ / 0-)

      commentary in regards to racism towards Jews at this gathering...it came from Billy Kristol and it appeared that because of that it was being dismissed.

      The problem is there is no defined agenda...and you have a whole lot of people down there trying to be heard...to get their piece of the action, which I'm sure causes a lot of confusion.

      A lot of folks have been screwed over...and the screwing wasn't preferential...

      •  I'm not surprised. (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bruddaone, cacamp, auapplemac, agent, erush1345

        Often when I encounter anger at "the banks" there's an undercurrent of anti-Semitism.

        It's really too bad that such ugliness is a part of this movement, especially because I'm really rooting for this movement to put political pressure on the D.C. establishment.  That kind of bullshit will be used to discredit the movement, however; so the organizers (whoever they are) and participants should take steps to curb that kind of bigotry.

        •  I can speak to the antisemitism "claims" (30+ / 0-)

          because I'm Jewish. We were just talking about that in another diary, since that meme was being pushed about OWS. But it was being pushed by the RW and by neocons like William Kristol. Jewish people have overwhelmingly supported the 99% and even had a Yom Kippur celebration on site.

          "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

          by mahakali overdrive on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:06:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm aware of the claims by Kristol. (5+ / 0-)

            I disagree with them; however, that doesn't mean that they aren't true to a degree.  Of course this movement isn't rooted in anti-Semitism, as Kristol claims.  That's hogwash.  However, the right wing will often try to season their lies with a grain of truth to make them seem more credible.  Unfortunately, there's a lot of anger at the President that spills over into racism, and a lot of anger at Wall St. that spills over into anti-Semitism.  Those of us who would like to see this movement succeed have to push back against this bigotry as much as we push back against the corruption in our political system.  That is our challenge.

            •  Wingnuts Claim Soros Is The Puppetmaster Of OWS (11+ / 0-)

              They are the ones with the antisemitic conspiracy theory.

              When Kristol say something, immediately look for the projection.

              For instance, the right's constant accusation of "envy" motivating the marxist protesters is right out of Mein Kampf:

              "........With infinite shrewdness he (the Jews) fans the need for social justice, somehow slumbering in every Aryan man, into hatred against those who have been better favored by fortune, ..... He establishes the Marxist doctrine. (Mein Kampf p349) ...."  

              There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

              by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:34:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Thanks for hijacking this diary ... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              petral

              I don't see the racism and sexism described in this diary to be equivalent to the charges of anti-semitism largely cooked up by the right.

              This is exactly what the lady said when she claimed that white men don't listen.

            •  There are antisemites showing up (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fou, mahakali overdrive

              They are being stood up to and I want it to be stood up to, perhaps because so many of the white people down there are Jewish? More people need to stand up to the racism and the sexism that is taking place down there.

              That means education. That's why Occupy The Hood is necessary and needs to be down there, not just recruiting people, but educating people and working with the movement.

              "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

              by resa on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:26:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  There is anti-Semitism. But how much? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              erush1345, fou

              I have seen videos of grossly anti-Semitic comments, but the real question is: how much is going on, and is it a theme that runs through much of the OWS?

              Kristol is probably a bit sensitive, but ignoring it just because it is from the Right seems silly.

            •  It is also realistic to assume numerous... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fou

              ...anti progressive, liberal, Obama, et al groups such as (skin heads, white power, neo nazi, have inserted themselves into the OWS people for purpose of discrediting them as well as dissension. Have to expect this tactic especially with the OWS people being very disorganized. imho

              Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

              by kalihikane on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 08:07:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  We are all familiar with the phrase (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tobendaro

            "divide and conquer," which implies a cause and effect relationship.  That is, aggressors seek to divide the object of their assault in order to overcome one part at a time, instead of the whole at once.  It's a logical strategy, especially for an inherently weaker aggressor. The lion employs it when he "cuts" a baby water buffalo from the herd.

            However, what I'd suggest is that the cause and effect aren't necessarily related.  Not because it doesn't work as expected and the conquest fails, but because some people sow division just for the heck of it. If they have any purpose, it's to deprive other people of their right to associate, as well as their peace of mind. Some people are divisive and destructive for the sheer hell of it and, indeed, its inspiration is hellish in that it grows out of the destroyer's jealousy of creation.

            Destroyers destroy because they aren't able to create. What they can't destroy, they try to organize.

            People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

            by hannah on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:57:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  To share rather than own an action (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hannah, petral

              People in the streets can talk to each other

              For once we don't need the usual divisive labels separating us by race, religion, sex, age, occupation, previous condition of servitude to the powers that be to bring us together against them.

              The way we take power away from them is by negating their control of advertizing, media, status symbols, politics, all the traditional methods of communication and control; by thinking beyond neighborhoods, cities, states, nations, religions, races, demographics to talk to each other.

              Because of social media we can communicate with friends and relatives who would normally be clueless about what is going on globally.

              People otherwise occupied by working for a living at jobs that just never quite seem to make a living possible have traditionally ignored politics as irrelevant to them believing it was a two party system and both parties were the same.

              Think about that equivalence in terms of the actions of a Republican dominated SCOTUS, Citizens United and Obama's efforts to place socially concerned women in a position of power there.

              Some of us feeling the power of occupying the streets have gone from dissatisfaction with a do nothing Congress to a belief we don't need to be concerned about what our leaders are doing because the power of  this occupation is we have no leaders.

              There is a true hive mind situation where political power is the ability to persuade and we are persuading each other by learning to speak with one voice.

              What that voice ought to be talking about is how to use its power to persuade to accomplish things the way workers do, to act as a group to clean a square with brooms and mops is a wonderful model. What if the occupation worked with Habitat for Humanity to occupy a neighborhood where housing needed to be made habitable or a neighborhood where there is no source of nutritious food to build a communal garden?

              To march down Park Avenue to see where the rich live is another great model. Occupying Bank America to insist on an end to foreclosures is more of the same, people who can see the problem together and then work to fix it without the social stratification of bosses who sit around meeting and issuing orders and workers who implement the orders without having a part in the decision making process is a wonderful thing.

              Its possible to look around us and as a group ask where can we make a difference and make that difference by forming a consensus and agreeing not to be violent, not to smoke, to be more aware of the impact of individual actions on the group as a whole, to share rather than own an action...

              Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Incarcerate

              by rktect on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:33:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  "Divide and conquer" is what the post sounded like (6+ / 0-)

              Wishing it was made up

              Some of the phrases sound odd, just didn't ring true with this writing

              and bring it if she wanted to fight. I went on to curse her out and I let everyone there know that I will not be abused by some stupid white bitch.
              it is very serious for us and standing up to these companies and oppressive forces is about standing up for our lives. We don't have rich white parents and communities to run home to after the whole thing ends. We don't have safety nets like they do.

              Really? I mean some snotty, rude kids and she is sure that is racial enough that she wants to fight the white bitch?

              And she'd assume it's not serious for many there and that they are rich, spoiled kids?
              Those and other comments just strike me as odd although I guess they could be written in anger.
              But it feels like divide (so we can't conquer)

              White people cannot articulate our oppression. We cannot be a part of movements that are lead by them and be marginalized. We cannot continue to allow the rampant disrespect to continue in the name of some sort of unity. I say we begin to as BLACK PEOPLE and not, "people of color", create define, organize and stand firm in our own movements to articulate our oppression and address it. Only then can we truly be effective and affect change.

              Again...really? Right now we should break out into splinter groups for this fight?

              I don't disbelieve there are rude arrogant people there, we see them everywhere. Don't doubt they's speak down to a black woman. Or a white one. Or a man. (I am not denying racism but many people will be assholes to everyone. Sort of like the rain is not racist if it falls on you)
              Maybe there is a need for this black movement, the work isn't done. But this occupy together movement is not where we separate, that whites can't have black leaders or blacks white leaders or whatever.

              I don't know how you enforce decent manners in such a gathering
              but breaking up isn't the way to move forward

          •  For heavens sake, being Jewish does not (7+ / 0-)

            give anyone any more cred for speaking to the claims of anti-semitism. What is required to address the claims of someone like William Kristol is to point out what he is trying to do when he tries to brand OWS with anti-semitism:

            1) Kristol is part of a group of right-wing zionists (including Christian fundamentalist zionists) that are trying to redefine anti-Semitism to include any criticism of Israel;

            2) using that definition, he is attempting to play divide and rule by trying to convince Jews not to participate in the movement by branding it anti-Semitic while also attempting to discredit the movement.

            "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

            by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:52:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It was in context to the issue that (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NY brit expat, fou

              I couldn't speak for a black woman's experience with OWS, however, I felt comfortable addressing the issue of antisemitism because I've experienced some in my life (in NY). And yes, I agree with the rest of what you say here to a T.

              "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

              by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:34:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Understand, but unless you are participating (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mahakali overdrive

                in OWS or address exactly what Kristol is doing, the fact that you (or I) are jewish lends no further credibility to an argument. I am certain that we will see similar statements from christian zionists raising this as well; they are doing something very nefarious to play divide and rule using dogmatic uncritical unconditional support for Israel as the basis of what they are saying. This needs to be fought on all levels both within and outside of the Jewish community.

                "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

                by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:48:20 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh, sorry (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mallyroyal, NY brit expat, dclawyer06

                  I'm not in NY. My closest friend is participating in OWS. Thus my particular interest.

                  I thought we should support OWS from afar? We have also been sending money (my husband said; he is a huge supporter and signed onto the supporters list publicly -- also he has two friends who have participated in the protests -- so we're as active as possible from here, both being NY'ers who deeply support the Occupy Movement).

                  "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

                  by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 10:36:28 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I am not in NY either, I am in London ... (0+ / 0-)

                    it is important to support the occupy movements; they have the real possibility of producing some positive change. I think that we can support them by both encouraging people to join the protests and also defend them when they come under egregious attack by the right and the mainstream. This is incredibly important; the arguments by Kristol (and we will see others jumping on the bandwagon to play divide and conquer or rule) must be called out for exactly what they are and we must not let them get a wedge in there at all. The idea of the people united can never be defeated is the core point; they are doing everything and saying everything that they can to make sure we are divided.

                    It is up to those participating to make sure that the divisions that exist in our society, which have been nurtured and cultivated by the powers-that-be do not poison the movement; that means that criticism is acknowledged and addressed by participants. That is what the diary is addressing. :)

                    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

                    by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 03:02:14 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  No Jewish issue here.. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mswsm

          "I reffuse to eat Satan sandwiches or wraps."

          by hangingchad on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:27:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I WROTE ABOUT THIS ON THE FIRST WEEK (0+ / 0-)

          THERE IS AN UNDERCURRENT ABOUT OBAMA AN THAT MADE ME THINK WHO A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE REALLY ARE I AM FOR PICKETING AGAINST WALL STREET AND THE BANKS BUT THIS GROUP HAS BEEN INFILTRATED BY THE TEABAGGERS AND GOP THIS IS SOME MORE OF WHAT WENT ON IN 2010 JUST BEFORE THE ELECTIONS AND I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A LOT OF IT

          •  I think I see your point (0+ / 0-)

            But I notice that there is an undercurrent about Obama in the POC community too, except that I think that POC are more supportive and more likely to "recognize what Obama is up against."

            "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

            by resa on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:28:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I didn't hear one mention of Jews when I was (38+ / 0-)

        in New York.

        I was in the camp for four days. It is not a subject there. This is manufactured.

        Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

        by UnaSpenser on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:03:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Now, who could *possibly* have an interest in (16+ / 0-)

          … splitting the movement by bringing group loyalties and identifications to the forefront and setting them against each other? That whole "wedge politics" thing?

          48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

          by lotlizard on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 01:27:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  THE REASON YOU DID NOT HEAR ABOUT (0+ / 0-)

          JEWS IS THEIR NATIONALITY IS NOT ON THEIR FACE AND ARE YOU SURE YOU ARE NOT A TEABAGGER/PUBLICAN

          •  baloney ... it is on our face (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Cedwyn, fou

            I just came back from fort worth.   Anglos there who weren't selling me something (and even some who were) scowled at me.  We're pretty recognizable.

            For those of you who prefer Bartlett to Obama, re-watch the West Wing. For those who prefer Clinton, re-watch old news videos.

            by Ptolemy on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 03:46:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  To a certain extent. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cedwyn

              I'm from somewhere in the Mediterranean but get mistaken for Jewish all the time.

              Annoying when the Jews for Jesus people try to recruit me.

              Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

              by Bush Bites on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:55:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  In NYC (0+ / 0-)

                It's also pretty obvious with people who are religious, particularly the men. It's hard to hide, and yet I see them in the park all of the time usually just curiously walking through

                "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

                by resa on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:30:15 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  what are you talking about? Jews live (6+ / 0-)

              all over the world and look like people in the places in which they live. Barring wearing of religious items or clothing associated with being Jews, you cannot tell a Jew by looking at their face. You are somehow buying into stereotypes when you say things like this; in my very Jewish family, skin colours vary from dark olive to very light, hair colours include blonde, red and black, hair texture is straight and fine to thick and curly. My husband whom is Italian and whose family is Catholic looks far more stereotypically Jewish than I do and is constantly mistaken for either being an Arab or Israeli (his brothers are blond and ginger). I cannot believe that I need to address this in a diary raising racism in OWS.

              "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

              by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:08:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  There only a few hrs Thursday and Friday (5+ / 0-)

          At no time did I smell any pot being smoked. I saw a GA on Thursday, you know, the group standing on the wall, whose speeches were being repeated in Mic Check fashion. One of those speakers was a young black woman.

          After the GA, she was involved in discussions that made me think she was one of the movers and shakers, but these observations are from a newbie and a total of 4 hours of observation, so what do I Know?

          Is this the same Walker:
          http://www.classmates.com/...

          49 years old

          http://www.womenarts.org/...

          Her television work includes CBS Productions' The 20th Century with Mike Wallace, Lifetime Television's The Place, and WCBS-TV News in New York where she worked in the Troubleshooter Unit with Roseanne Colletti.

          Reene apparently slammed some black leaders

          But when the anti-establishment movement called Occupy Wall Street opened the floor to comments during a recent meeting, Reena Walker looked at the crowd in a Manhattan park and bellowed disapproval over the visits that day of Sharpton, West and hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons.

          "Sharpton and all these guys — are you kidding me?" said Walker, who accused them of using Occupy Wall Street to bolster their profiles while perpetuating things the movement eschews, such as party politics, consumerism and sexism. "We don't want to be used and co-opted. This is not a game."
          http://mobile.latimes.com/...

          At this point the whole thing is quite strange.

          A cursory search snows no recent campaign donations for Reena Walker to Obama in '08 or 2012.

          Reena Walker appears to have worked most of her adult life in theater and TV. Not in grassroots activism, political campaigns or issue oriented campaigns.

          Looking at Reena Walkers facebook page, there is a heated discussion where she takes some heat from her black friends

          http://www.facebook.com/...

          If I am allowed to cherry pick comments

          YogiFish James Herring You don't know me Reena Walker, but I do know you. So don't come online and act like you're a representative of the Black community...Harlem don't know you. At least not the ones who actually get their hands dirty helping people, versus the people who exploit the struggles of black people for their personal ambitions.

          You're communicating with a black man of accomplishment and humbleness. I'm not online to put down others, but more to contribute to lifting up the future. I put my time and money where my mouth and words are, not on expensive cloths and jewelry to impress others.

          Black Women aren't represented by you..you're too weak!

          YogiFish James Herring Define what is "Black" for me Reena Walker?

          I've deal with the Black Bourgeois before, and I know you don't think much of us ignorant field hands, who you want to inspire to do your cultural bidding.

          Zappa Montag There are surely issues of racism and sexism within the OWS movement..., but it also time for black people to let go of our petty bigotry ...and sadly Ms. Walkers post reflects a lot of the bigotry that we blacks have allowed ourselves to indulge in....the original post was over the top in this regard imo....sadly I have seen a lot of black antagonism towards this movement and it has manifested itself in coded bigoted type ideas...we have a lot to gain from this movement, and we need to step up and grow up imo...
          Darkly Wander ‎3. Lastly, Lorenzo Kom'boa Ervin is an experienced activist, and former Black Panther whose comments need to be heeded. He has experienced racism on the "Progressive Plantation" and has written about it just as he has been a witness to the kind of handi-work that the gov will do to fuck up some thing like the OWS. I think with all the Ron Paulist and faux-Libertarians posting wild and free here, his words shouldn't be so easily disregarded. Look, we have improve, fix the real problems with in the movemnet as well as be very careful of the potential dangers and just plain bs from human behavior that can also cause problems. We acn do better than this. Shout out Yogi for his class-analysis on certain points he made ;-)
          Gilbert Giles but you, of course, are in a position to judge others, eh? and this movement?
          Darkly Wander Alright, time to hit the "unfollow" link to this wonderful thread. I've got comrades stuck in TS and I'm at home with a sick kid and can't do shit stuck here. Done with dorm-room identity politics.

          And then what maybe on of the most insightful comments.

          Dega Omar Neville S Coward, (Blacks with dirty hands, blacks that exploit other blacks and blacks that are multicultural). Can one cross over to other places of being black. Are blacks the same everywhere? We can't define Blackness anymore than we can define whiteness. I think this experience of finally getting to all occupy together is going to open people's eyes.

          I have a significant resume in issue oriented and political campaigns, and at 53 yrs of age I would not think for a moment that I should walk over to OWS and start to tell them I want in, except to offer my support, which I have done, I have organized a food drive in New Jersey-we delivered food Friday, 3 trays of lasagna and 10 containers of Chilli, and some other stuff.

          There is no way an adult should think they can walk into an existing organization with an existing hierarchy and inject their leadership. Thats a big no no.

          SO a 49 yr old woman wanted to throw down...... yeah ok.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 11:47:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  These are criticisms from other OWS folks (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roger Fox, petral

            when she posted this to the OWS group. I think Dega Omar is another AA woman.

            Here is her personal comments from where she posted it amongst friends who did pretty much embrace what she says:

            http://www.facebook.com/...

            The thrust there is to build a Pan-Africanist Movement, essentially, as this commenter says (name removed for privacy, although her wall is open, this poster may not know it is):

            Folks.... Look at the big picture and think on the capacity and capability building level:

            Think about how much more powerful our community would be if we brought the art of facilitation and effective efficient meeting to this Movement, O...UR MOVEMENT(Black Nationalism/Pan Africanism/African Liberation).

            Lets be clear, the power is not in the carnival called occupation, it is in the seeds of community government that is the General Assembly. Dr. David Horne, UNIA-ACL International Organizer, wrote a book called Meeting Maat about building consensus according to African methodology. WE, those of us who understand the art and power of facilitation in helping groups come to consensus, need to bring this expertise to the Movement in a big way. I would also suggest Sociocracy by John Buck.

            We need to stop trying to tag onto these groups, trends, and fads, just because they HAPPEN TO SHARE SOME MUTUAL INTERESTS BUT AREN'T WILLING TO SUPPORT OUR HIGHER VITAL STRATEGIC INTERESTS... SUCH AS SELF-DETERMINATION, LAND, AND REPARATIONS. That is political immaturity on our part.

            I'm not going to blast Occupy ATL just yet. Suffice to say many of the issues you and others have brought up I have seen (not the sistas being abused tho, cause thats a stomp out on gp if witnessed) but we need to take this facilitation business to our community assemblies, our legacy organizations and institutions, our local governments, and All Our Gatherings as Black People and New Afrikans.

            This occupy shit is for the birds but I see it as evolving into something new and improved. WE need to be on the front end, if not the spearhead, of that evolution; that may or may not transition into armed revolution. I invite you all to check out the HBO mini series John Adams, to see a fairly accurate representation of how eventually, the consensus was reached democratically to mobilization for revolutionary war that led to the creation of the amerikkkan construct.

            Now I won't comment on the Pan-African, Black Liberation Movement. I know a good deal about it, but as an outsider studying it. It is important contextual information, however, to understand her complaint. As others in her personal comment thread also talk very much about similar ideological views.

            Without a good background in the theory of Pan-Africanism and Black Liberation Theology, it's hard to understand where her complaints are stemming from or what motivates and informs her posting.

            "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

            by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:25:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  In other words... (6+ / 0-)

              She wanted to go in and get her "expertise" recognized, and the group wasn't in the mood to be lectured. I've seen this crop up in Portland: Experienced activists go in, start trying to use their greater life experience as activists to thrust their ways down the throats of the people at the GA's, and they get the cold shoulder because the youth are rising up and wanting a voice, and won't be pushed aside. People get their feathers ruffled, and stomp off.

              This isn't the same ol' same ol'. This is a new and different movement. They sense a new direction, one which is horizontal rather than vertical, ground up rather than top down, consensus based rather than hierarchical. They give respect to all voices, but won't allow people to rant at meetings just because the person considers herself to be an old hand, experienced and knowledgeable organizer.

              They are going to not simply reinvent the wheel, they are going to find a new means of organization and delivery for their message. It will take time to coalesce, but this is what is occurring. I hope wiser souls will see the benefit in this, and support them rather than carp from the sidelines.

              •  Experienced activists dont do that (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ZhenRen, petral, Agathena, ohmyheck

                Thats me McGovern @ age 14. Camp Wellstone Alumni 2005, paid position in FLorida for Kerry Edwards '04, I quit my job in NJ to go to FLA, 2 congressional races here in NJ. Muni races.

                I started a group to fight the purchase of Sequoia voting machines here in NJ.

                You NEVER walk into an existing group with that attitude, NEVER.

                I started a food drive for OWS in NJ, delivered on Friday, they said thanks. That works for me, doing this every Friday now.

                Her resume is all theater and TV http://www.womenarts.org/...

                FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

                by Roger Fox on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 01:01:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Well... some do. (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Roger Fox, Agathena, ohmyheck

                  Some experienced activists have pretty big egos, and they get frustrated sitting by watching people stumble along. But they will need to check their egos at the door.

                  I've personally seen this happen at my local GA. It's a fascinating study of people to sit back and watch the whole thing unfold.

                  And when this occurs, not all will be magnanimous about it. Some will stomp off while manufacturing reasons why people should not support this group.

                  Sad.

              •  I would say that she wanted OWS (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wretchedhive, ZhenRen, SwedishJewfish

                to embrace a black separatist view? Not judging from anything other than what she states combined with the comments which she approves from her friends. And obviously, OWS is not a black separatist group, so it's not surprising if she was disappointed by it.

                I think this would be the thing that would happen to anyone with a strong pre-existing ideology that they wanted OWS to embrace, when OWS has an already-in-place (albeit broad) idea of itself.

                If she is someone who believes, as her friends do, and she tips for saying it, that there are no white people or movement which she can or should ever ally with, that's her point of view and she has every right to hold it. But obviously, she wouldn't be happy with a group that doesn't similarly embrace that view.

                And I think that is why many AA people from a different ideological bent may have pushed back when she brought this conversation into OWS on FB.

                This is not, I think, so different than the idea of co-option. Other co-options. Whatever they are. Because OWS is organically creating a direct democratic space. I would say it is generally racially inclusive, although in any open movement, not everyone will be. There is a huge legacy of racism in this Nation. But her issue doesn't seem to be that.

                She has espoused indirectly through her friends not wanting to work with non-black people toward political change. So, it's not really surprising that she was dissatisfied with trying to work with a group that wasn't also committed to a kind of black liberation theology (I think that's where she's coming from, reading her comments).

                I can respect her ideology and at the same time, wondering why she is outraged that others don't embrace it. That's dogmatic. There are kernels of truth in her points. And this is being circulated around the AA community. But that community is NO monolith, and I don't think all want just black separation -- though that is a strain of some black folks and I don't feel angry that they feel this way, given our countries sordid history. I also think it's a fairly particular view that isn't like, widely embraced as an absolute vision of what black people want. This is a better conversation for AA's to speak to than me. Although as Deoliver47 says in her sig line, coalition building is critical.

                I hope I'm not too off base here and have not offended anyone. I am presently studying the history of the African experience through scholars like Achille Mbembe and have always revered Frantz Fanon and W.B. DuBois as well, to name a few. So this is all particularly interesting for me right now. But I am still an outsider looking in. And very conscious of that.

                "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

                by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 01:14:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  This: (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  mahakali overdrive, petral, ohmyheck
                  I think this would be the thing that would happen to anyone with a strong pre-existing ideology that they wanted OWS to embrace, when OWS has an already-in-place (albeit broad) idea of itself.

                  Exactly right. And one more thing: People need to be patient with this group. They are in some ways starting over from scratch. I like that, and I'd hate to see established, well-oiled groups move in and dominate. I don't think the OWS people would stand for that, but it is a possibility which is definitely lurking in wait for an opportunity.

                  No doubt there are meetings of such groups taking place as we speak, discussing how they can use the OWS group to further their agendas. I think the OWS movement is aware of this, and won't allow it.

                •  And if I fucked up my interpretation, I ask (0+ / 0-)

                  for AA folks who have read through the comments and the 61 shares that this has received on FB (many are publicly viewable) to KINDLY reorient my perceptions. I am speaking slightly academically and as an outsider trying to make sense of this. So please, really, if you feel that I am off-base based on what her friends are saying, by all means tell me so. I wouldn't want to be wrong on this interpretation whatsover.

                  Thank you very much.

                  My great respect.

                  "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

                  by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:13:53 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  That's how I understand it too (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ZhenRen, ohmyheck

                and 'horizontal' is a good way to describe a movement that is not directed from the top down.

                ❧To thine ownself be true

                by Agathena on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:22:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Amen to this comment. (0+ / 0-)

        Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

        by kalihikane on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 08:02:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  there has been criticism of OWS on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive, erush1345

      inclusion of people of colour, women, and the disabled; moreover while class is being addressed as a complaint; the class privilege of those young white men is not being addressed (college and university costs quite a bit of change).

      This is criticism that is serious and raises the question of true democratic participation and the equality of all participants. This is something that not only needs to be called out, it needs to be addressed by the movement as a whole. Can this be addressed and changed? We have to see whether the participants will accept their own privilege and move to address it. In the absence of that, it will never grow into a proper grass-roots movement that will enable real change; no one wants to switch oppressors from rich white old men to rich white young men.

      "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

      by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:58:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See my comment above (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive

        The issue is multifaceted.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 11:48:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Have you been to one of the OWS GA meetings? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        petral, Agathena, joanneleon, ohmyheck

        I'd suggest, if you have not, going to a few before you make judgments. From what I have seen first hand in Portland, the consensus process is very open to new voices, if people want to spend the time to get involved. In Portland, women have very good presence at these meetings as facilitators. And I have seen AA's involved. And, despite this being a very youth centered movement, older folks are welcome too, from my observations. It may not be perfect, but it is very inclusive, in my view so far.

        Another observation: People often show up at the GA's expecting these meetings to function like other "movement meetings" on the left. This is a different movement. The young people are creating a paradigm shift, and are more accepting of the Ron Paul followers, and other diverse views, and aren't as ideologically focused. They don't mind sharing the street with others, so long as there is some commonality of views. This will take time for them to sort out, and the Ron Paul youth just might be in for an education from the others, and there is potential for this to come together and coalesce as the participants learn from each other and the consensus process. This has the potential to blow the traditional Republicans and Democrats out of the water, forming a new ground up rather than top down, horizontal rather than vertical, consensus-based rather than hierarchical movement that follows a completely different model.

        Despite the Ron Paul followers, there is a very socialistic streak that runs through this, even if the youth don't call it that. They may find new labels for all this, and breath fresh air into stale rhetoric. We can hope this happens.

        And the movement is learning as they go along. It takes time to shake out some dominant voices, and for some of the new voices to move in. If people want to see it improve, there is basically one way to accomplish that: Get involved. Go to facilitator meetings. Do something.

        That's how it works.

        Don't speak too soon while the wheel's still in spin, for the times they are a-changing. -Dylan

        •  Thanks for your valuable input ZhenRen. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ZhenRen, joanneleon, ohmyheck

          ❧To thine ownself be true

          by Agathena on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:20:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I have heard reports from 5 different cities (0+ / 0-)

          LA, Boston, Toronto, New York and Seattle by people that I trust, respect (and actually know in the real world) and who have been doing political work for much of their lives. This needs to be discussed and addressed; I do agree that change can only be done by participating in the groups, but until it is acknowledged and addressed there is a problem, but that is up to the women, people of colour and dis-abled activists on the line to decide how to address this problem (which is the nature of how the groups work). I am demanding that the problem be recognised and addressed.

          I am not discussing Ron Paul's followers at all and yet you seem to be assuming that it whom I am discussing. Obviously they have far too much influence since I am seeing comments on monetary policy which reflect their bizarre understanding of money, but that is not my problem and that is not what I have raised in my comment.

          "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

          by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:45:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I wasn't assuming you were referring (0+ / 0-)

            to the Ron Paul people. I was throwing in an observation I felt was relevant.

            I hear you, but I haven't seen what you claim, and I have been to the GA meetings in Portland rather extensively, compared to most I see commenting negatively here.

            I don't trust the observations of people I don't know, especially if they have not been to these meetings. It seems everyone has "a close friend" whose observations they are acting upon. If you had been to one yourself, I'd give you more credibility. Sorry.

            I suspect part of what is occurring is that older, seasoned activists don't feel they are having the easy access they would like, and feel irrelevant to some degree. The people at the GAs lean to the younger side, and they want a direct voice in the process for a change. Often when some of the older folks don't get the time in front of the group they would like, they may attribute it to their own presumed notions, such as sexism and racism, rather than admit they got as much time as anyone else. But when people feel self important, due to "field experience" in leftist movements, they often want to get up and subtly dictate and lecture, and this group will not have much patience for that from my observations. They have heard it all before. They want a voice too, and they may not trust that the traditional movements of the past can make anything meaningful happen, since all they have to do is look around to see the mess the world is in.

            But time will tell. If there is a real problem, then it should be addressed. And I have confidence that the young people involved are far more capable than you may be giving them credit for to address these concerns.

            •  Zhen, I am in London. I am not acting on (0+ / 0-)

              anything, I am saying that if/when these things exist, they need to be addressed. I would suggest that you read the following:

              http://www.dailykos.com/...

              since I have not said anything that you are imputing to me, I cannot be bothered to respond to you anymore.

              "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

              by NY brit expat on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:42:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Were you there? (7+ / 0-)

    Only when all hope is lost does shit get really funny.

    by jbou on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 10:38:39 PM PDT

  •  Went to Occupy Portland, OR for a few hours (17+ / 0-)

    today, and I was left with sort of a sour taste in my mouth as well. Not nearly the bad experience this person had, nothing even approaching that, but I didn't feel very welcomed. We walked around aimlessly trying to get information on what was happening, trying desperately to get the lay of the land down and nobody would help us. Some people straight up refused to talk to us. The ones that did looked down their noses at us like we were some sort of outsiders trying to get into the cool kids club or something. It felt very clique-ish at times, and I didn't feel as if this movement had any room for me or my fiancee.

    We went to Occupy Portland searching for a political outlet and got the cold shoulder. It was not what we were hoping for. Unfortunately I don't have the time, or now, the inclination to visit again. Perhaps I can help out with the Occupy Salem, OR effort. Its much smaller, but it looked more inviting when we drove past.

    I haven't lost any respect for the movement, I still think that it is vital to fighting corporate greed. I just wish it were more inclusive. Perhaps we went to Occupy Portland at a down time or something?

    "The clown car always has room for one more" - a hilarious kossack

    by rexymeteorite on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 10:43:11 PM PDT

    •  Have you gone to the general assembly? (17+ / 0-)

      They being at 7:00 PM in Portland and are very democratic, and very inclusive. I've been to a number of them, and while the process isn't perfect, it is quite good.

      If you want it to be better, your voice can make it better. We've had our ups and downs at the Portland GAs, but people tend to learn, and they move on.

      •  tried to find it (7+ / 0-)

        again, we were very confused. We gave up searching for the GA and just went home at 7:30 tonight.

        "The clown car always has room for one more" - a hilarious kossack

        by rexymeteorite on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 10:49:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Here's the information: (16+ / 0-)
          Occupation Information
          The General Assembly meets at 7pm
          location: The ampitheater at Terry Schrunk Plaza (located across from Portland City Hall at the 1200 block of SW Third Avenue)
          email: info@occupyportland.org
          Text or Call: (503) 890-0657
          mail: P.O. BOX 2113
          Portland, OR 97208

          This is held in the amphitheater in the park adjacent and south of the parks people are camping in. Just ask anyone there and they will know. Just go to Madison and Third.

          The organizational arm of the OccupyPortland movement is being facilitated by some good, smart people. Everyone is welcome. The GA is where it is all happening, as well as in the various working groups. These groups are the real OccupyPortland. It's the heart and blood of the movement.

        •  And by the way... (10+ / 0-)

          I'm a bit surprised at your experience. Mine has been quite different. I've been treated with great respect and courtesy at these meetings, for the most part, as well as by the people camping in the park. It's been one of the high points of my life.

          •  well, I dunno what happened honestly (7+ / 0-)

            we might have been too timid or something. Whatever it was we didn't feel welcomed. We will try again some time.

            "The clown car always has room for one more" - a hilarious kossack

            by rexymeteorite on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:30:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, I think avg person there is just an average (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rexymeteorite, Ahianne, Sylv, cybrestrike

              person... someone like you or me who decided to go down and protest. Most of them probably with their own agenda, their own trials and tribulations.

              I doubt anyone's been appointed to welcome people, most people there are probably strangers to each other. Then the people who're "in charge"... well, it's hard to know a giant group of people, so they're probably somewhat cliquish, just on the point of efficiency.

               This is one of the most common things I see in organizations of every stripe, how does one open doors and windows so new folks can participate?

              In the case of OWS, seems to me that "participation" is defined solely as "show up and protest". It's not like there are specific goals that people could sign up to try to create.

              Any of that make sense?

              This health care system is a moral atrocity. Dr. Ralphdog

              by AllisonInSeattle on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:55:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Just because your experience has been good (0+ / 0-)

            does not mean that the experience of all others in attendance was good.

            Just because things were one way in Portland does not mean they were the same in other locales... and the anecdotal evidence and stated perceptions of those in other locations does not mean this blogger's experience is not true...

            case in point... this past saturday, during our church service, the church received a call from a LEO somewhere in West Virginia ( i don't recall the town; it was somewhere I never heard of...) One of the elders answered the phone and the man asked to speak to the pastor. The elder replied that he was in the pulpit and asked if he would wait a few minutes or could the pastor call him back and was told that there was an accident with fatalities concerning a family member of the pastor's... so the pastor came to the phone and put it on speaker.

            Then he found out that the fatal accident was a fabrication; the real situation was that the car of one of the elderly members of our church had broken down and was towed to  a "sundown town" and the officer stated flatly that the repairs to the car exceeded the amount of money they had by 90 dollars and "if they don't get out of here before sundown they wont get out of here at all". The pastor got the information about the garage and told him that it would be taken care of and then, a little annoyed, rebuked the man for telling the lie and the officer replied "oh, you must be one of them smart n****rs"...

            Now I am sure some here could go to that town and have an experience nothing like that and think this officer to be a dutiful and diligent public official... only because there would be no reason for him to show the uglier side he showed to our pastor to them... but their not having been faced with that uglier side does not mean it does not exist or that the exchange with the pastor did not happen.

            Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

            by awesumtenor on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 08:45:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  "they are bing held" correction -n/t (0+ / 0-)
    •  Did you go to the information booth? nt (3+ / 0-)

      Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

      by Horace Boothroyd III on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:00:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This, rexy, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      frandor55, nicolemm, ZhenRen
      We went to Occupy Portland searching for a political outlet and got the cold shoulder.

      You are surprised by that?  The Movement is distinctly NON-political.  It is one of the main tenets of the movement.  One rarely reads anything pertaining to a politician or political party, or hears about it either.

      I am surprised you did not know this before you went, I am surprised that you went with expectations, and I am not the least bit surprised that you got the cold shoulder, if you in any way, shape  or form tried to bring "politics" to it.

      If I had been in Portland, and you came by me with a sign or voiced your support of any politician or political party, I would have given you the cold shoulder as well.

      If you go again, I hope you do so with a different mindset.  I bet you will have a very different experience.

  •  From a distance (29+ / 0-)

    it kinda sounds to me like a couple of self important people crossed paths and locked horns.  I suspect neither of them are   anywhere near as "important" as they'd like to think they are.  

    I'd be pretty surprised if OWS didn't have a fair sampling of assholes among its crowds (just like any other large group of people).

    Not too keen on self-important divisiveness myownself, no matter who it's coming from or what the rationale behind it is.

    •  Of course there are such folks (10+ / 0-)

      at these camps. Lots of people are there for the wrong reasons. Just as in any community, it is often a smaller percentage who have the vision to make it all work and move forward.

      People bring their baggage to the GA meetings, and sometimes there is a learning curve before they understand they aren't going to have the power they expect to have. The consensus process takes some getting used to, and the big egos who think of themselves as seasoned activists often want to run things, but the group will usually not take too long in putting a stop to the nonsense.

      That's my experience in Portland.

    •  Like my grandfather used to say... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Urizen, Cali Techie, cybrestrike

      ..."Everybody is at least an asshole."

       ll
       ll
       V

      ‎"Our greatest asset as advocates is a deep cognizance of our own ignorance, plus a willingness to do something about it." -Joseph Mitchell Kaye, 1966.

      by JR on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:01:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think (23+ / 0-)

    I'd like a bit of background on the writer of the post, when they were at OWS, some images, etc. I'm sorry about the paranoia, but....

    "Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna get tough, grow a vagina. Those things take a pounding." --Betty White

    by crose on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 10:53:13 PM PDT

  •  Occupy the Hood is trying to do just that (8+ / 0-)

    They are on facebook and twitter. I found their phone number at one point because I intend to call them this week to see what's up.

    That's all I've got right now.

    Hope it helps.

  •  I have one issue with this: (38+ / 0-)

    if you watch videos of who is leading General Assemblies, you will often see a black woman and a Latino man.

    I'm white. I can't speak to what the experience of being there would be like if I weren't. Still, I saw plenty of people of color who seemed to be quite comfortable and well-represented in the working groups there. It's actually a bigger issue in Boston. Many of us who have been at both places have noticed a stark difference between how multi-racial the occupation was in NY vs the one here.

    I am a woman and I saw no sexual harassment while I was there. Doesn't mean it wasn't happening, of course. But, there are surveillance cameras on every inch of that space 24 hours per day. It's quite intimidating. If crimes were being committed on the premises, it would be the best excuse the police could have for clearing it out.

    Also, the park was not filthy. They have a sanitation team and a lot of consciousness about keeping things clean. It is outdoors, so there is definitely going to be leaves and dirt around. Still, far from filthy.

    I can't help but wonder if this a piece of subterfuge.

    Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

    by UnaSpenser on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:01:50 PM PDT

  •  I'm supportive of OWS and our local effort (3+ / 0-)

    but I do have to say that I'm a bit shocked at the arrogance and subtle sexism of some of the young men in charge.  There are a few women who appear to be asserting themselves, mostly latinas, and I hope they tell those guys a thing or two about inclusiveness.

    As an older political gal, I've had to back off a bit because I'm not pleased with the lack of appreciation for what our local unions have been willing to offer.

    It appears there's a significant group who wants to go it alone, stand their ground, and demonstrate an unwillingess to compromise.  I will not be surprised if they get arrested tonight, and it didn't have to be that way.

  •  I can only say this (14+ / 0-)

    It does not match with the experiences of one of my closest friends in the world, a friend for well over ten years, who is black and who has been down there quite a bit, being a resident of the city and quite fascinated with OWS. I have grilled him about the racial divides recently on the phone, no more than a week ago, after I saw the way the Atlanta protest was very white. He felt that there were some Ron Paulites but that was it. He's made no mention of white supremacists or taunting or racism and has been returning -- knowing him, half for the politics and half for the curiosity. He's currently employed part-time, basically.

    I have another friend, acquaintance, who is black and is a stone cold Anarchist who was sleeping down there but I have not talked to him directly. He went with another friend who is Latino.

    So that's what I've heard. I've never heard of any other accounts that match this. Not to denigrate her story. I've even checked up to make sure she is who she says, and it looks to be that she is an activist and a film maker.

    It sounds like, in her complaint about the process, she strongly dislikes the consensus model.

    It sounds like she's had a bad experience. I think it could have easily been with the Ron Paul people. No one really wants them there from what I hear.

    It reminds me a bit of hearing "about" the 1960's and Haight Street. I guess on the one hand you have folks like Timothy Leary down there, and on the other hand, you also have Charles Manson on the other corner. That's what happened in the '60's. There was a big group of people who converged and weren't all there for the same reasons.

    Are more black people giving similar accounts?

    "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

    by mahakali overdrive on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:04:57 PM PDT

  •  There may in fact be some racists at OWS, but (13+ / 0-)

    this person sounds to me like someone who came to OWS with a massive chip on her shoulder to begin with.

    There also needs to be said here something about the passive black people there who speak in a white vernacular and want to be white or sleep with white people so badly that they have no black consciousness at all. They really need a wake up call. They have no real desire to be supportive of black people nor do they want to be associated with anything that is truly about the struggle that REAL black people face and basically, will stand there and side with these white people even if they see another black person being attacked, and then blame the black person, which is what happened at the time that these white people were treating me this way. This black girl who was much darker than me, who spoke like a blonde girl on a beach, asked me to leave instead of even listening to me or finding out what happened. She was so concerned about keeping the white folks happy that she wasn't even concerned about my well being or my position on the matter. Who stole the soul is right.

    Another insulting situation that happened was a white man coming up to me at the GA giving me a flyer that read "Occupy Harlem". I told him Harlem is already occupied by him and all of these white people coming uptown pushing black folks out of their homes...

    Looks to me like someone went looking for fights to pick.

    •  Wait, what? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, sviscusi, fcvaguy
      I told him Harlem is already occupied by him and all of these white people coming uptown pushing black folks out of their homes...

      Are you claiming that this woman has a chip on her should because she said that?

      If so, then why is it wrong for some to claim that we have a chip on our shoulder because we say we feel occupied by Wall St.?

      This woman was just saying how she felt.  I really don't see what's wrong with that, or why you feel the need to dismiss her for it.

      •  You don't think that comment is problematic? (14+ / 0-)

        Someone comes up to her at an OWS rally and hands her a flier promoting a rally in Harlem.  Apparently because this person is white, she essentially tells him to fuck off.  Simply put, this is not indicative of someone who came to OWS to do anything other than pick fights.

      •  How Many Shouting Matches Does She Describe? (18+ / 0-)

        There was one with the organizer that nearly got physical, she challenged some girl to a fist fight, and she got into this argument with the the guy from Harlem.

        She also got very pissed off with various other people of different races, but apparently time did not permit getting into a loud bitter  argument with each of them individually.  

        There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

        by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:38:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Her story changes a lot (21+ / 0-)

          http://guestofaguest.com/...

          Reporting from New York— Most groups that count on donations might welcome nods of support from someone with the deep pockets of superstar Kanye West or the influence of activist and MSNBC host Al Sharpton.

          But when the anti-establishment movement called Occupy Wall Street opened the floor to comments during a recent meeting, Reena Walker looked at the crowd in a Manhattan park and bellowed disapproval over the visits that day of Sharpton, West and hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons.

          "Sharpton and all these guys — are you kidding me?" said Walker, who accused them of using Occupy Wall Street to bolster their profiles while perpetuating things the movement eschews, such as party politics, consumerism and sexism. "We don't want to be used and co-opted. This is not a game."

          Is there anyone she isn't angry with? Here it's three black men.

          The last to speak was Walker, from a New York group called Progressive Black Thinkers. She said Sharpton, West and Simmons didn't speak for most of Occupy Wall Street's participants, and she was angry that the men hadn't spoken up to support the movement early in the game, when Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon were singing its praises.

          Okay, so Moore and Sarandon are okay for her....

          http://www.flcourier.com/...

          Reena Walker of Harlem is on the People of Color Subcommittee of Occupy Wall Street and chair of Progressive Black Thinkers. She spoke exclusively to Florida Courier reporter Ashley Thomas, who was at the site.

          "I felt it was very important for our presence to be here to be visible in the park, not just to be a part of looking at everything as a spectator – but also to be front and center so that the issues that face the Black community can be a main part of the agenda in OWS (Occupy Wall Street)," she said.

          "The Black community is disproportionately affected by all the issues portrayed, especially when it comes to mass incarcerations and the prison-industrial complex.

          "The economic situation is dire right now, the unemployment rate in the Black community is out of control – it’s like over 30 percent. When America gets a cold, the Black community gets the flu."

          Walker says it’s important that Black Americans participate in the Occupy movement.

          This about face feels fishy as Heck to me. I think something is very askew.

          "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

          by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 01:08:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  LOL. (0+ / 0-)

          Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

          by Bush Bites on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:42:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Her black friends on FB are calling her out. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:13:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Black OWS members call her out (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Roger Fox, mallyroyal

          Her AA friends on her FB talk about something quite different.

          Here are those comments:

          http://www.facebook.com/...

          One friend there states:

          A much needed dose of reality testament! This Occupy movement is not our fight, we should not be trying to unify with other races via ANY forum until we can unify with ourselves. Period. Thank you for this, Sister. Your horrific experience was not in vain!

          another friend there posts:

          THAT IS IS JUST THE BEGINNING. BLACK PEOPLE YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS OUT THERE WITH YOUR SLAVE MASTERS CHILDREN FIGHTING ~THEIR~ FIGHT WITH THEM. THEY NEVER FOUGHT YOUR FIGHT WITH YOU AND THEY CARE NOT FOR YOUR PLIGHT. RETURN TO YOUR OWN. TOTAL SEPARATION IS THE ONLY AND FINAL SOLUTION. OCCUPY AFRICA, WE ARE A RICH PEOPLE, BUT WE LOVE OUR OPPRESSORS AND THEIR COUNTRY TOO MUCH.

          This is a very real view of some African-Americans who embrace what some call Pan-Africanism (there are other names for similar things too... I mention it because one friend directly comments on it). For those who don't know what this IS, here is some Wiki context:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          As pointed out there, further context in the U.S. might be seen here:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          I am not espousing any view on this. I have my own.

          "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

          by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:34:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I suspected this would be a problem (7+ / 0-)

    when I saw how white the protests are, hell a commenter here on dkos said we "need" the teabaggers "even the racists". I assumed he was a troll and told him so. I'd like to see large contigents from various minority communities go down to OWS and engage them in conversation.

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:10:38 PM PDT

  •  I'm A White, 66 Year Old Grandmother...... (10+ / 0-)

    & have been to four protests.  Each was welcoming & inclusive.  I've participated in 2 GA's.....one w/ l0,000 people, one w/ 350......both were calm & nonthreatening.

    I spent 5 hours at OccupyPortland on 10/6/ll.  It was outstanding.  One of the two main organizer/speakers was a young woman in her early 20's.  She received rapt attention, & seemed to be respected by everyone.  My husband & I were treated kindly, respectfully & were welcomed by every single person we met or talked to.  

    It was a fabulous day.  I'm surprised the leadership at OccupyPortland that I saw 10 days ago has deteriorated to the degree that the diarist & previous commenter have described.

       

  •  If It Wasn't Written By A White Male Republican (7+ / 0-)

    It's sort of hard to actually imagine anyone getting into a series of screaming matches that way, although I've also known people who really do that and they are the sort of people who would brag to the world about it.  

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:15:43 PM PDT

  •  A few items I find particularly hard to believe (25+ / 0-)

    without verification.

    Women are being molested in the park and there is no real viable system in place to handle it without the need for police intervention. There are white supremacists groups running around there.

    There are cameras literally everywhere at OWS.  Every movement seems to be forensically documented.  I'd have a lot more faith that this story was non-fiction if evidence of these problems was documented anywhere.

  •  I'm not saying either way, cuz I'm not here, but (12+ / 0-)

    what she says is just plain hypocritical. People should follow her way when she does a drop by visit but she has no time for people who have been there weeks. And may I add . . . I don't believe women are being molested.

    Women are being molested in the park and there is no real viable system in place to handle it without the need for police intervention. There are white supremacists groups running around there. There are people smoking drugs there even though it puts the entire action at risk and even after being told that the General Assembly had consensus on the fact that there should be no smoking of cigarettes as they are not only a health hazard to everyone and gives support to the tobacco companies, but also a potential fire hazard, people continue to smoke with no regard for their fellow protesters.

    There is a constant marginalization of women and I was even verbally and physically imposed on and threatened by a white man who was up in my face with his fingers pointing in my face because he wanted to dictate to people what he thought they should do. When I spoke up and said that he and two other white men are not supposed to dictate to everyone what should happen but that the decision should be made through consensus he got angry.

  •  Divide and conquer (10+ / 0-)

    The oldest plutocrat strategy in the book. It doesn't surprise me from Kristol...

    They always demand the biggest carrot and then offer to rent us the stick. Occupy!

    by chuckvw on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:29:55 PM PDT

    •  NO GROUP OWNS OPPRESSION!!!!!!! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Karl Rover, wenchacha, chuckvw

      I do volunteer work for a group, The Civil Rights Agenda, in IL. During the vote for Civil Unions we had a table in the rotunda as well as educators running around the Capitol.

      As a straight person it was a lesson to me, via citizens and lawmakers, that many people felt that civil right issues only dealt with the Afro-American experience.

      We hand out fans at parades and festivals that say ___ is a civil right! and people fill in the blank. Jobs, health care, marriage, you name it ends up in the blank. People have different visions of their rights.

      Now a shameless plug . . . Like "The Civil Right Agenda" on Face book!

  •  I don't like this at all (23+ / 0-)

    I don't like the post. She assumes she is better than everyone else and knows more than everyone else, despite the fact that she went FOR A DAY and others have lived here for weeks. She assumes people "are not that bright," without knowing them, and then implies she knows far more than anyone else there.

    I went on to curse her out and I let everyone there know that I will not be abused by some stupid white bitch
    Another insulting situation that happened was a white man coming up to me at the GA giving me a flyer that read "Occupy Harlem. I told him Harlem is already occupied by him and all of these white people coming uptown pushing black folks out of their homes

    Please, whoever this person is, do not come back to OWS. We don't need divisive people that don't respect others that don't look like them there. Not all White people are the same; and this movement is made up of all kinds of people that want change.

    I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma- Wizard of Oz; If you have half a brain you won't need a diploma- Frank Levey www.MarylandPoliticalNews.Com

    by weathercoins on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:37:48 PM PDT

    •  This woman is a belligerant racist (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      weathercoins, wenchacha

      The movement is supposed to be a peaceful one and by her own admission she has already tried to incite violence twice. Anyone who tries to start physical violence SHOULD be isolated until they calm down.

      Her attacks on the blacks who weren't REAL blacks because they disagreed with her remind me of RW dismissing anyone who disagreed with them as not being REAL Americans. Just Ugh

      There also needs to be said here something about the passive black people there who speak in a white vernacular and want to be white or sleep with white people so badly that they have no black consciousness at all....

      This black girl who was much darker than me, who spoke like a blonde girl on a beach, asked me to leave instead of even listening to me or finding out what happened. She was so concerned about keeping the white folks happy that she wasn't even concerned about my well being or my position on the matter.

  •  IT Security Consultants Infiltrating & Disrupting (7+ / 0-)

    I saw a story about some guy bragging about his consulting business and how much damage they were going to do to the movement.

    I'm pretty certain this is the same fool who bragged he could take down Anonymous, and within hours every aspect of his life had  been hacked so thoroughly that every time he got a replacement credit card they were being used to buy electronics in Estonia before he ever saw his new cards.

    But cooking up a story like this is more their speed.

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 11:46:17 PM PDT

  •  obviously BULLSHIT and meant to supress AA (8+ / 0-)

    support and probably written by Brietbart. They must be really scared of increased minority support of OWS to try and peddle this obvious propaganda.

  •  Sounds like FUD. (14+ / 0-)

    In the interest of giving the benefit of the doubt, I won't HR, but it sounds like an email circular tailor-made to alienate black people from the movement.

    The conundrum of stable democracy: Reform requires the consent of the corrupt.

    by Troubadour on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:53:25 AM PDT

  •  two reena walkers (9+ / 0-)

    at OWS? this seems highly unlikely to me... via boston herald:

    But when the anti-establishment movement called Occupy Wall Street opened the floor to comments during a recent meeting, Reena Walker looked at the crowd in a Manhattan park and bellowed disapproval over the visits that day of Sharpton, West and hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons.

    "Sharpton and all these guys — are you kidding me?" said Walker, who accused them of using Occupy Wall Street to bolster their profiles while perpetuating things the movement eschews, such as party politics, consumerism and sexism. "We don’t want to be used and co-opted. This is not a game."

    •  Whoever it is the person is bringing personal (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ohmyheck

      issues and animosities into the discussion, perhaps with an intent to change the subject.

      Not appropriate.

      H'mm. I'm not terribly into this, anymore.

      by Knarfc on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:59:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So how long was she really there? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wenchacha, chuckvw

      Upthread there's a longer quote where a Florida paper identifies her as a movement leader of some sort.

      And this quote here implies that she's identifying herself as part of the OWS movement while the original facebook post seems to suggest that she wouldn't be caught dead identifying as part of the movement.

      The facebook post sets off my bullshit-meter. It's too close to a stereotypical "angry Black person" that's designed to cause white people to clutch pearls. It only identifies people by the color of their skin (as opposed to dress or hair, or a number of other, more telling, identifiers). It describes a uniformly bad experience, and descends into hyperbole without even anecdotal evidence--"women being molested" but nothing specific, "white supremacist groups" without anything definitive.

      The last thing I want to do is dismiss claims that women could be unsafe, but without any sort of even anecdotal specifics, it relies solely on what the reader's notion of "molesting" is, letting the prurient imagination go hog wild without any sort of reality check limit.

      I heard about Occupy the Hood at least a week ago, and I was under the impression that it was acting as a sort of "breakout group" to specifically focus on POC and urban issues aside from the main group. If she's that big an activist, shouldn't she have also heard?

      If her grievances are legit, then this needs to be addressed. If this is the Right Wing Wurlitzer, then it needs to be countered and neutralized.

      How does the Republican Congress sit down with all the butthurt over taxing the wealthy?

      by athenap on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:11:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sounds like she's just there to stir sh*t up (0+ / 0-)

      Notice everything from her is always negative. The more I read about her, the more I'm inclinde to say "good riddance"

  •  All I have to say to this "Reena Walker"... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn

    Photobucket

  •  In anything this large (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ZhenRen, kurt

    There will be individual dissenting voices. For whatever reasons, right or wrong.

  •  There are assholes in every walk of life. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agent, looking and listening

    Either get used to it or prepare to have huge problems in life.  You sound very young.  Your choice, hon.

    "Look, my administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks," - Obama cutting off the bankers re their rationalization of bonuses.

    by dov12348 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:46:01 AM PDT

  •  Cornel West (5+ / 0-)

    For me Cornel West is one of the main hero's of the movement and one first big names to join the movement.

    There will be all different types of people in this movement and a significant number of them will not be politically correct. That's part of the 99% as being part of this movement means that you will have to step outside your comfort zone.

    I can see a lot of the 1% minion's that will try and split people from this movement, you just have to be more tolerant of their actions as the stakes are worth it.

    I have taken the position on possible new items that are from the minions, is that I just ignore them and find some other information to shine light on that will advance the movement. Its not worth the effort addressing compared to all the things that are happening at this moment in time.

    One other thing is that I am so proud to be part of the Daily Kos community in this movemet as we are one of the leading sources of information in this movement.

    .

  •  Maybe we should collect (17+ / 0-)

    all the Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh rumors and post them here too, just to see if we can correct the situation of course.

    Maybe someone will see this and correct the situation...if it can be corrected.
  •  Polly Anna's Dad said (5+ / 0-)

    If you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will.

  •  Could be a class thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pwr2thepeople

    Mainstream politicians are always pandering to the so-called middle class, while the lower class is completely ignored, and this is definitely a movement of the bourgeoisie.

     E.g., in the area of "social justice" it appears to be much more important that Washington pays off a middle class mortgage or student loan rather than, say, gives someone living in poverty a decent roof over their head, education, living wage, etc. in the first place. The former are the ones who, we hear, have "played by the rules."

  •  Sorry, but this smells weird to me. (14+ / 0-)

    This part, for example, doesn't really make the person who wrote this seem truthful or lie someone whom I would want to hang out with:

    They continued to defiantly smoke and light up cigarettes and be obnoxious and continued to harass until I got fed up and told this one girl, who was pushing me to the limit, that she should step up and bring it if she wanted to fight. I went on to curse her out and I let everyone there know that I will not be abused by some stupid white bitch.

    If "Reena" is so worried about people smoking in a park, then she definitely is not getting the OWS movement, imo.  And she sure won't be able to get people to help and coalesce with that kind of attitude.

    The more I read of this "account", the more it seemed fake or like it is written by someone who is a weird form of rude control freak.

    "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

    by Lawrence on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:16:36 AM PDT

  •  My bullshit detector blew up (10+ / 0-)

    reading this supposed account presented by the diarist.  I'm glad though that they posted it so we can all see the lengths the opposition is willing to go to.

    Agitprop, false flagging, agent provocateurs.  This will not be the last, and all must be diligent in vetting such.

    I hope in the future that all such accounts are brought to the forefront as the diarist did.

    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

    by wretchedhive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:45:31 AM PDT

  •  I won't go back to occupydc - similar experience (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pwr2thepeople, TFinSF, agent, murrayewv

    I encountered hostility from 4 people (people at the "booths" )when I walked through the park to suggest to folks that that we make sure people Registered to Vote!

    They were dismissive, because, they don't believe in the 2 party system (pointed out that you can vote for any party you want - that did not make an impression) that's not how they are going to change the system.

    I made the mistake of sticking around long enough to point out that people are protesting around the world to get the right to vote. OMG they were flinging "who was I, who did I work for, that I was wrong. Hostile, intolerant, arrogant. So as I turned to leave they taunted me with "running away".

    This was not a a group of people who are trying to be inclusive of working and middle class people concerned about the unfairness of the economic system. It doesn't seem their encampment has grown much either.

    Of course wapo got the confrontation completely wrong too.

    •  I can see why they were hostile (8+ / 0-)

      by encouraging people to register to vote you are sending a message. Vote for one of two nearly identical choices, a corporate dem who is president or a corporate repub who wants to be president.
      Chances are you are a democrat and an Obama supporter. Endorsing your advocacy means endorsing your candidate and the democratic party which is just as culpable for this mess as the GOP.

      •  WTF is the matter with you? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        am

        You are here encouraging people NOT to register and vote???

        WTF is the matter with you?

        "Chances are you are a democrat and an Obama supporter."

        Chances are you are an opponent of Democracy.

        Saying that voting is endorsing the Democratic Party?  

        Seriously, WTF is the matter with you?

        --
        Seeing The Forest -- Who is our economy FOR, anyway? Twitter: @dcjohnson

        by davej on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 08:31:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Voter Registration (0+ / 0-)

          And after they register what are their choices, GOP or Dem?
          And yes, a person who shows up at OWS encouraging people to register to vote is in all likelihood a Democrat trolling for Obama votes.
          What we have in this country isn't a true democracy as we don't have choice. The sole difference between a corporate Democrat and a corporate Republican is the identity of their corporate masters.
          So there is nothing the F wrong with me.

      •  OWs has refused to advocate anything except (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZhenRen

        social justice for everyone. They will not advocate for any particular group.

        ❧To thine ownself be true

        by Agathena on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:59:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yep, and "Gore = W", right? (0+ / 0-)

        Please let OWS not be about that kind of nonsense.

    •  Probably a lot of Nader types. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike, agent, TFinSF, ohmyheck, am

      I wouldn't want to hang around with a lot of them either but, you know, that doesn't make them racist molesters.

      Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

      by Bush Bites on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:03:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It is a NON-political movement. (4+ / 0-)

      If you cannot view life through a non-political lense, and you haven't followed the intentions of OWS, which has made it very clear that it does not believe that party politics has a place in the movement, then you should have been better prepared and better informed before you went.

      Don't blame the movement for your attempt at what they would view as co-opting it.

      Though rudeness in any situation is not accepetable behavior.  Disagreements never need to be dealt with that way.

    •  "Walked through" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Agathena
      when I walked through the park to suggest to folks that that we make sure people Registered to Vote!

      Did you attend the GA and bring that up?  What was the outcome?

      •  I intended to find out how to get involved (0+ / 0-)

        My walking through was to attempt to figure out how one could get involved and be supportive. Obviously I was not welcome as an advocate for encouraging voter registration. As I said - the folks on the main walkway  did what they could to discourage me from participating.

        •  Well, maybe they saw you as having an agenda (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ZhenRen

          instead of trying to get involved and be supportive of the OWS movement, which is voted on by everyone.

          But like you said, you're not going back.  There are plenty other advocacy groups, political and not.

        •  Maybe try showing that you can listen first (0+ / 0-)

          Before demonstrating your ability to lecture. Your experience doesn't hold water with my own: I've found people at OccPortland are respectful of my opinions, even when they don't agree.

          I have to wonder if your attitude wasn't transparent to them. If you go in there, telling them things they already know, talking down to them as if they need your advice, you just might fall flat on your face.

          At OP, there were activists registering people to vote, and I did not observe any objection to that.

  •  There's a lack of responsibility here (5+ / 0-)

    To repost this diary gives it high visibility and yet the poster says he/she doesn't know how true it is.

    If it is true, it must be wiped out. But we have heard no such claims. This was a meme (that the crowds were all white) that Fox was trying hard to push two weeks ago. Without an author and authenticated incidents it is very hard to judge whether this is more of the right trying desperately to discredit or real disfunctionality. Since I KNOW that Fox was pushing the "all white" meme in the face of clear evidence to the contrary two weeks ago, this is a problem for me.

    I'm off to try to research the original author, but I think it is VERY important that we only post material when we know it is creditable. Do you?

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:55:42 AM PDT

  •  Her perceptions are hers, but (8+ / 0-)

    i'd like to hear from the people she's accusing of being racist, chauvinist, acting white, etc...
    Seems to me arrived after the heavy lifting had been done and because she is so much more experienced than them should have been put in charge.
    She also arrived with her own agenda wanting OWS to put black issues at the forefront of it's agenda.
    When she described the drug use (smoking tobacco cigarettes as irreparably hurting the cause) I concluded she is wound too tight. And when she doesn't grasp occupy Harlem or the Bronx or Brooklyn or queens as an extension of OWS it's obvious she does not get it. She appears blinded by her own prism, seeing everything as racial.
    That's not too say there aren't people in OWS who aren't on power trips and don't want to share decision making or expand the platform, but how would she feel if she had been there since day 1 and somebody walked up on day 28 or day 14 and decided they should be in charge and their agenda should be the one.advanced?

  •  The rant is marred by some stupid-awful stuff (12+ / 0-)

    It's not the ranter's place to say who some other black people want to sleep with.  

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:57:11 AM PDT

  •  Oh, good Lord! (8+ / 0-)
    There also needs to be said here something about the passive black people there who speak in a white vernacular and want to be white or sleep with white people so badly that they have no black consciousness at all. They really need a wake up call.

    Now we're going to start whining about who somebody sleeps with???

    WTF???

    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

    by ehrenfeucht games on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:04:24 AM PDT

  •  This rant is very suspicious and seems (17+ / 0-)

    intended to divide. That's all I'm saying until I know more.

  •  This thing has (5+ / 0-)

    the sound and general feel of a right wing email forward, just more detailed than most. I'd like to hear more from this Reena Walker person--at least enough to show that she's a real live human.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:19:13 AM PDT

  •  4 people on my fb already shared this. (8+ / 0-)

    so bruddaone's right, this is getting circulation in the black (online) community.

    and I'm not reading anything that trips my bullshit meter.  this rings true (or 'honest').

    (sigh) there's a chasm btw the modern left and people of color, especially black folks.  sadly, this (the response I'm reading to this fb note) highlights that chasm, once again.

    and obviously I look askance at those of you who were ready to believe RainbowGirl sight unseen, but disbelieve that this person (with a fb account, linkedin, and several other pages to her name) even exists.  par for the course.

    all that said, I have some major problems with the story reena relates.  she doesn't make herself look good in it, by any stretch.  there's no hero in this tale.

    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

    by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:28:36 AM PDT

    •  How many times do you have to (0+ / 0-)

      be reminded that "Rainbow Girl" is not to be brought up in any discussion at DKos?  
      Just because it was MB who said so, and he is now gone, doesn't mean that it is no longer applicable.
      Maybe you could promise yourself to stop bringing her up, as MB asked, in MB's memory.
      Or maybe you could promise not to bring up the subject which is off-limits, because you have respect for this community.

      •  I never signed off on any moratorium. (6+ / 0-)

        it happened, it happened here, and lots of people are still in denial about it.

        I'm supposed to 'respect' those who embraced her?  please.

        if you have a problem with my commentary, ignore me.  I'll continue to mention the events of less than one year ago at my leisure, thanks.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:14:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, I won't ignore you when you (0+ / 0-)

          continue to beat other Kossacks over the head with an issue that has been made VERBOTEN by the DKos moderators.

          What, is it just that you don't have to play by the rules, mally?  "Rainbow Girl" episode can be used by you whenever you want because you are special and above the rules?

          No, you are not.  That was one incident, and you and yours were constantly using it to bash other Kossacks who were not aware of what was going on.  That is totally unfair and you know it.

          Why do you still bring it up?  It is old news.  No one cares.  Talk about beating a dead horse?   You are just trying to create divisiveness and get attention for yourself.

          This site is not here so you can create drama.This site is not about feeding your neediness.

           Get over it and get over yourself.

          I am reporting your comment, that you don't have to play by DKos rules, to management.  I will let them decide if you need another lesson in how to engage here.  Because the comment above shows you haven't learned it yet.

        •  You recced her diary in the tip jar, mally. (0+ / 0-)

          Here is the link:

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          YOU "embraced" her.  What are you going to do?  I guess you will have to stop respecting yourself.

          Either that, or you will have to join the rest of those Kossacks who recced her too, and get over it.

          YOU. RECCED. HER.

          •  yep sure did. I said why, over and over. (3+ / 0-)

            nice try though.

            read this: http://www.dailykos.com/...

            I stated I recced that for the discussion (7+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:pollyusa, edwardssl, dmh44, Diogenes2008, Larsstephens, Yasuragi, Ezekial 23 20
            and stand by that rec.  I've also been clear that I thought she was a fraud, the whole time.

            did you rec the diary wherein she out and out accused me and others of being axelrod plants?

            or this: http://www.dailykos.com/...

            I've literally not stopped mentioning it. (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:rubyr, pollyusa, Sagittarius, princss6, gobears2000
            because she came out of left field in a disagreement btw me and others and bruh1 and leveled that charge, to bruh1, on some "don't worry about these plants we know what they're about, don't we?"  the diary was her FLESHING IT OUT.  I damn sure took it personal.

            and kossack after kossack is all "right on" and "we need your voice".

            like you said, no justifying.  but here they come, one and all, either acting like they didn't SEE the diaries they recced and commented in, or saying the overarching point hasn't changed, given the circumstances.

            this site has taught me some things I didn't already know about in-group theory.  and it ain't pretty.

            This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

            by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 08:05:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  He does show up to tip comments and rec diaries (0+ / 0-)

        And is still on Twitter, hes rewteeted some of mine when I link to DK.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:41:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  The generalizations have me suspicious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hardart

      About women being molested and white supremacist groups. She gives specific examples of getting into it with other protesters, but these two charges are suspiciously lacking in detail (and allowing the reader's imagination to fill in whatever awful thing their imagination can dream up). If she witnessed molestation, wouldn't it be the thing to do to either stop it (judging by her other interactions, she doesn't seem to fear a confrontation) or report it to the police or protester-manned security teams?

      I don't doubt that what this lady relates is par for the course in the Black experience in America--I'm just doubting some of the events themselves she claims to have witnessed.

      How does the Republican Congress sit down with all the butthurt over taxing the wealthy?

      by athenap on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:18:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well I'm not very impressed with the lady (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fcvaguy, mahakali overdrive

        who wrote the original note, for several reasons. none of which are a sense of her being a fraud.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:32:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I admit she doesn't come off as (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal

          a great leader, but I'm also white and suburban, so if her ire is the genuine result of a lifetime of frustration and institutionalized abuse/second-class treatment, I'm not about to tell her she can't feel it because it's "unseemly."

          How does the Republican Congress sit down with all the butthurt over taxing the wealthy?

          by athenap on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:21:49 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Lack of detail (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ZhenRen

        She talks about being verbally abused but doesn't give any quotes. Quotes to justify her extreme reaction here:

        They continued to defiantly smoke and light up cigarettes and be obnoxious and continued to harass until I got fed up and told this one girl, who was pushing me to the limit, that she should step up and bring it if she wanted to fight. I went on to curse her out and I let everyone there know that I will not be abused by some stupid white bitch.

        So far I have heard or seen nothing to corroborate her vague accusations. Do you think with all the media, the cameras, the live feed women could be molested without anyone noticing it but her?

        ❧To thine ownself be true

        by Agathena on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 10:12:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Well said Mally (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mallyroyal, mahakali overdrive

      tipped for the last few sentences. I'm still absorbng Rena's rant and have my own thoughts on it.

    •  Oh, I'd believe this person (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      icemilkcoffee, chuckvw

      got her nose bent in record time when OWS didn't automatically put her in charge or even recognize she's the most brilliant and capable leader on the planet. But you'll have this, some people are just ugly by nature. They come in either sex, all colors. Not all humans are nice people.

    •  I was one of the first to question the veracity of (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chuckvw

      RainbowGirl's writing, Mally, and this account smells very similar to me.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:30:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Really, this is true (or honest) (0+ / 0-)
      There also needs to be said here something about the passive black people there who speak in a white vernacular and want to be white or sleep with white people so badly that they have no black consciousness at all. They really need a wake up call.
      •  what's 'true' and 'honest' is that I know a LOT (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive

        of black people who think exactly what this person wrote.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:36:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow, now that's something I didn't know. (0+ / 0-)

          I also don't know what a white vernacular is.

          •  learn something new every day. (2+ / 0-)

            and, not that I AGREE with the meme, but the difference between 'sounding black' and 'sounding white' in certain milleus is the difference between Joe Madison and Ron Christie in this clip:

            and let me be plainer:  I DISAGREE with the 'sounding white' meme.  it's stupid.  I enunciate my words, and my voice is neither deep nor booming.  I probably sound closer to Christie than Madison.  but that's what's being referenced.

            This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

            by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:47:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sorry, I just don't get it. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mahakali overdrive

              I hear Madison sounding like a radio person who's been trained to talk on the radio.  You know what I mean?

              I hear Christie sounding like a whiner and a jerk ;)

              I agree:  It's stupid.

              •  I can codeswitch (3+ / 0-)

                but my default is what it is.

                I've told this story before...

                I was working in the mailroom of a Fortune 500 company alongside another black guy (and two white guys).  we were all friendly with each other.

                one day we get a phone call.  I answer:  "Good afternoon, mailroom, Kamal speaking." I encounter what seems like shocked silence, then a female voice asks for the other black guy (by name lol she didn't say "other black guy" hahahaha), I give him the phone.

                He pauses, listening, then cracks up laughing.  when he gets off the phone he tells me his wife said "I thought you said Kamal was BLACK!"

                This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 11:01:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cool, learning two new things in one day: (0+ / 0-)

                  That's a good thing.

                  First, I learned that some black people don't like other black people having sex with white people.  (I'll never understand that no matter what you do to me ;)

                  NOW... there's a term that I'm not familiar with:  codeswitch, yet you are capable of doing that and don't choose to do so.

                  Now my question to you is:  What is "codeswitch?"

                  •  switching from proper to vernacular (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mahakali overdrive

                    and back, depending on context.  codeswitching's actually a linguistic term I'm using somewhat loosely.

                    the local-slang-filled way I talk to my best friend, and us to our immediate circle of friends, would likely draw puzzled stares, if overheard by you.  for instance.

                    I wouldn't say I do it on purpose, because both manners of speaking are authentic for me.  it's more automatic.

                    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 03:12:52 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  From the perspective of a Linguist (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mallyroyal

                      everyone code switches. It means to adopt a different way of speaking in different social contexts. I played with my almost-all white class with this last year and they saw easily how they did this. They said things like "I don't cuss at home but I do with my friends," and "In class, I try to sound elevated." A lot of code switching has to do with what's called register. Slang varies from area to area. Using standard american english even varies in meaning to some degree from area to area. Using standard academic English depends on one's discipline. We all do it. It's fun to figure out how and when. For me it's ingrained and not on purpose at all. In fact, that's true for the VAST majority of people for all races. Even when someone speaks in what we call "dialect" they may not be aware of it at all and may be trying to code switch to make themselves more comprehensible to us. And we may not recognize it. How's that for ironic and kind of sad? Sigh.

                      Language is an amazing thing. It's highly fluid.

                      With my friends, I now alternate between speaking like Hegel and like J-Lo. Well that's where I'm at. And it's not real conscious. Worse, I'm friendly! So I tend to go talk like either Hegel or J-Lo to everybody. Actually, I slightly mimic peoples speech patterns (we all do to be honest) subconsciously to avoid sounding like a giant nerd.

                      Did I ever tell you I did impressions?

                      So sad about Sarah Palin. She was hands down one of my best. Mary Poppins too!!!

                      "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

                      by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 11:32:34 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  wait though: (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mahakali overdrive
                    First, I learned that some black people don't like other black people having sex with white people.  (I'll never understand that no matter what you do to me ;)

                    context and emoticon tells me this is snark, but to be clear:  you didn't just learn that today.  right?

                    This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                    by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 03:15:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I honestly included absolutely no snark (0+ / 0-)

                      in any of my comments to you. I promise.

                      Yes, I JUST LEARNED TODAY that some black people don't like black people sleeping with white people and don't like how some black people talk.

                      I've never heard that before, and I won't use the "my best friend is black," blah, blah, but my black friends and family, I've never heard that from them, it never came up in conversation.

                      My emoticon I used was a "playful" thing, I thought, to demonstrate that I was dead serious.  I'm sorry if I used it inappropriately.  

                      •  ok but it would seem to have been a logical (0+ / 0-)

                        conclusion drawn when you first learned about bigotry in general, and American history in particular.

                        surely you knew that some whites didn't want other whites to have relations with blacks... didn't you think the opposite held true as well?

                        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

                        by mallyroyal on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 04:31:23 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Did you read my response? (0+ / 0-)
    •  I was hoping to hear from you on this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mallyroyal

      <3

      Of course it's her FB account... her wall is wide open and so is her photo album. She's pretty active too. That would be some scam. Especially getting other people to tag fake shots of her with them at parties.

      But, I also have issues with her story. I've already explained all that though.

      "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

      by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:47:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  (((my mo))) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive

        to be honest, she sounds like many of the anti-Obama black people I know when the topic of leftwing racism comes up.

        This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

        by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:53:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I put up every link that I could find (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mallyroyal

          Upthread. It took me a minute. I can't quite figure her out. But yeah, there's something going on there. LOTS of weird rhetoric there that's out of some other playbook but can't put my finger on it, you know? Silly because this is a nonpartisan action, OWS.

          (((((((((((((mallyroyal)))))))))))))))))

          I love you, darlin'... working so hard over here, I could seriously DIE. Trying to soldier through it.

          Psst... ;)

          "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

          by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 10:23:14 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  YESSSSSSS!!! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mahakali overdrive, Cedwyn

            that plus this almost made mally take ballet:

            http://www.imdb.com/...

            Plot Summary for
            "Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids" The Dancer (1979)
            The gang laughs off a teen-aged amateur boxer's interest in ballet as a "sissy" interest, and figure their friend will be in for a beating by the city's top boxer in a tournament. But the young boy has a few tricks up his sleeve, and his interest in ballet plays a key role.

            ALMOST.

            This comment is dedicated to my mellow Adept2U and his Uncle Marcus

            by mallyroyal on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 10:26:54 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dee dee dun. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mallyroyal

              ROTFLMAO! Oh wow... we'd have to call you "the mallerina." Totally reminds me of my nightmare years in ballet, every single year from like three or four years, my mom put me in ballet and there was always this one awkward dude there. I guess, in retrospect, he was a better ballerina than I will ever be.

              You know, it's never to late to realize your dreams. :D

              "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

              by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 10:33:01 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  WTF? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agent, cybrestrike, ohmyheck
    There also needs to be said here something about the passive black people there who speak in a white vernacular and want to be white or sleep with white people so badly that they have no black consciousness at all.

    Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

    by Bush Bites on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:35:10 AM PDT

  •  Copyright question (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz, ohmyheck, flowerfarmer

    I am somewhat new here and have seen a number of diaries that have been HR'd because of copyright issues, with statements that only a couple of characters or paragraphs can be used.

    Why is that not the case here?

    Also, I think that many of the folks having a problem with OWS don't understand the idea that this is not about voting, not about race, not about anything other than shining a huge light on economic inequality and greed and the role of Wall Street in politics.  From the beginning there have been statements that the OWS folks have been clear that they won't be co-opted by any party or group.  

    I fall down, I get up, I keep dancing.

    by DamselleFly on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:43:43 AM PDT

    •  A facebook post is not copyrighted material (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      esquimaux

      as for diaries getting hidden for fair usage abuses, a couple of characters is not grounds, and depending on the length of the of the original article being quoted, neither are a couple of paragraphs.

      I think Daily Kos has been very respectful of fair usage and attribution, and most abuses have been simply a matter of a diarist simply not being knowledgeable enough about fair usage and are quick to rectify their posts.  But there are those who lift entire articles without care and present them as original content - those are hidden with just cause.

      Do you have any examples in mind?

      That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

      by wretchedhive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:29:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was not aware FB is not copyrighted material (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wretchedhive

        It was just a general question I had as I had seen other posts that were changed by diarists at the request of others who pointed out the copyright guidelines here.   And as you say diarists often were just unaware.  So, I was not sure why it did not apply in this post.  The fact that FB is not copyrighted material answers the question.  Thx!

        I fall down, I get up, I keep dancing.

        by DamselleFly on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:25:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The particular FB post that is the subject (0+ / 0-)

        of this diary, is a 'public' post.  That is, the FB owner of the post does have the privacy settings on public (or I would not have been able to go there and see it), and as such the content can be used by anyone.

        Not all FB posts are public, and those that are not public do belong to the poster; but that is not the case in this situation.

        I fall down, I get up, I keep dancing.

        by DamselleFly on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:43:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Anything's possible but I don't believe this. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ohmyheck

    This sounds like a right wing email forwarded around to spread disinformation.  I'd like to know if Reena Walker is a real person as well.

  •  Think this is an attempt to give police "cause" ? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ohmyheck, flowerfarmer
    Women are being molested in the park and there is no real viable system in place to handle it without the need for police intervention. There are white supremacists groups running around there. There are people smoking drugs there even though it puts the entire action at risk and even after being told that the General Assembly had consensus on the fact that there should be no smoking of cigarettes as they are not only a health hazard to everyone and gives support to the tobacco companies, but also a potential fire hazard, people continue to smoke with no regard for their fellow protesters.

    Two crimes and a danger to public safety.

    Maybe she wants the cops to break it up?

    Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

    by Bush Bites on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:49:31 AM PDT

  •  After a walk, my reaction (6+ / 0-)

    This diary may well be the authentic impression of someone--or it may be someone trying to pretend to be someone they think exists--but it shows gross misunderstanding of what's going on in that park!

    First the author indicates that she has not been there for weeks, just shows up and wants to get her issues addressed. She appears not to understand that there are many issues, many voices, many frustrations.

    This sentence, though, was the biggest clue for me.

    Women are being molested in the park and there is no real viable system in place to handle it without the need for police intervention.

    Why WOULD there be a different mechanism than the ever-present police? It's the right who views the encampment as an independent state rather than a collection of voices. That sentence made me think very strongly that this was made up, by a right wing "dominionist" who thought that was what a black woman might say. The use of the term "black vernacular" was also suspicious to me.

    When the Tea Party met, they repeated the words of their lords Koch and Armey as delivered by their prophets Palin and Cain. When the 99 meets, they each are individual human beings.

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:50:16 AM PDT

  •  OK, so Kristol calls OWS anti-semetic... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ohmyheck, PsychoSavannah, cybrestrike

    ....this woman calls it anti-black.

    Bet we'll see anti-Hispanic charges next.

    Ideology is an excuse to ignore common sense.

    by Bush Bites on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 05:59:41 AM PDT

  •  Dear Rena (5+ / 0-)

    Please get in touch with Occupy The Hood!

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

    by resa on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:24:03 AM PDT

  •  I don't know if this is true or not (0+ / 0-)

    but I can tell you that it could be true.

    I don't care who sleeps with who, but I would be very careful about dismissing the possibility of racism or sexism at OWS and I would be keeping an eye out for it, just like I would be keeping an eye out for those anti-semites who try to sneak in.

    True or not, this is something that needs to be discussed, not swept under the rug. Occupy The Hood exists for exactly this reason AND THEY ARE DOWN THERE so there was no reason for Rena, if she really exists, to leave Occupy Wall Street and not come back. Frankly, this is why I am suspicious of this story, not because I don't believe that it could happen.

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

    by resa on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:37:57 AM PDT

  •  Interesting (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    resa

    I took one walk down there with my son this last weekend. I saw nothing of what is being described here, but perhaps I wouldn't in what was a relatively short time. I also have heard no such complaints from the publisher of Culture Kitchen, who is a black woman who seems very into OWS, but maybe I will run this by here and see what she thinks.

    Hope it isn't true, but racism is a part of almost every aspect of America, so it could be.

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. Read the PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT Newsletter

    by mole333 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:39:25 AM PDT

    •  Ehh (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cybrestrike, chuckvw

      The woman who wrote this is a racist. If she seriously criticizes other African-Americans for "acting like a White blond bitch" or whatever, she should not be welcome here.

      Oops, now she will probably try and start a physical fight with me or something.

      I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma- Wizard of Oz; If you have half a brain you won't need a diploma- Frank Levey www.MarylandPoliticalNews.Com

      by weathercoins on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:21:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Reena Walker the documentary film maker (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    resa, Jackson L Haveck, Lawrence, chuckvw

    doesn't seem to be the author of the account. It would be strange for her to write it without mentioning that...

    Reena Walker of Harlem is on the People of Color Subcommittee of Occupy Wall Street and chair of Progressive Black Thinkers. She spoke exclusively to Florida Courier reporter Ashley Thomas, who was at the site.

    Perhaps another Reena Walker, someone using her name with or without realizing it, or a fictional character. The most well-known Reena Walker seems very supportive of OWS...

    "I felt it was very important for our presence to be here to be visible in the park, not just to be a part of looking at everything as a spectator – but also to be front and center so that the issues that face the Black community can be a main part of the agenda in OWS (Occupy Wall Street)," she said.

    http://www.flcourier.com/...

  •  It would be a conceit to believe (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    resa, weathercoins, mallyroyal

    the Black voice is monolithic or shares the same goals or beliefs.

    Whether or not she had actually witnessed or experienced racism or sexism is almost tangental.

    She has expressed in her Facebook comments that this is not her communities fight and seems to be fiercely racially separatist that this is not a common cause.  

    Ms. Walker expresses a personal agenda that is not concomitant with what she sees as the current occupy protests, and seems singularly focused on the aspects of paternalistic white dominance.

    But hers is one of many voices there, and shouldn't be elevated nor impeached beyond that of any other's due to its uniqueness.

    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence

    by wretchedhive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:46:03 AM PDT

  •  I think I'm going to cry (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mallyroyal, Karl Rover

    Would somebody please help me out and uprate me to remove my TU above. Some white guy thought that I was being racist by mentioning #occupythehood and gave me a donut. If you don't know about this organization and you are a person of color (or even if you are not), maybe you should?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

    by resa on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:10:18 AM PDT

  •  Okay, this needs balance (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cybrestrike, Karl Rover

    My main contact with OWS is a black woman who has been heavily involved. Here are her comments on this diary:

    yeah, this isnt representative. there's quite a number of black women in facilitating roles at OWS. security is a huge issue there and there's a whole team of people, working on it. and there's 3 working groups dealing with POC issues: the POC working group, OccupyTheHood and the Latino/OWS en espanol working group. it doesnt sound like she even tried to get into any of these groups. the all also are dealing with issues of safety and security not only for women but immigrants (protecting them from ICE).

    I don't want to discount what this diary is saying, but it sounds at best unrepresentative of what is going on down there, at worst not accurate. Thanks for posting it, but maybe we can get some balance so this isn't used to discredit the whole thing?

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. Read the PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT Newsletter

    by mole333 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:15:54 AM PDT

    •  Yeah. (0+ / 0-)

      The woman who wrote the diary seems to be a racist that has a narrow-minded view of how everyone should act, and if they don't listen to her then she will even try to instigate a fight. We don't need her at OWS.

      I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma- Wizard of Oz; If you have half a brain you won't need a diploma- Frank Levey www.MarylandPoliticalNews.Com

      by weathercoins on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:20:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Continuing to repeat yourself (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mallyroyal

        is not going to make your conclusion factual. Racism is more than prejudice. Here Joan Olson puts it like this:

        3) Reverse Racism
        (a) “People of color are just as racist as white people.”3
        (b) “Affirmative Action had a role years ago, but today it’s just reverse racism; now it’s discriminating against white men.”
        (c) The civil rights movement, when it began was appropriate, valuable, needed.  But it’s gone to the extreme.  The playing field is now level.  Now the civil rights movement is no longer worker for equality but for revenge.”

        Reality Check and Consequence
        (a) Let’s first define racism:

               Racism= Racial Prejudice (white people and people of color have this)
                Plus
               Systemic, Institutional Power (white people have this)

        To say People of Color can be racist, denies the power imbalance inherent in racism. 

        Certainly, people of color can be and are prejudiced against white people.  That was part of their societal conditioning.  A person of color can act on their prejudices to insult, even hurt a white person.  But there is a difference between being hurt and being oppressed.  

        People of color, as a social group, do not have the societal, institutional power to oppress white people as a group.  An individual person of color abusing a white person – while clearly wrong, (no person should be insulted, hurt, etc.) is acting out of a personal racial
        prejudice, not racism.

        (b)   This form of denial is based in the false notion that the playing field is now level.  When the people with privilege and historical access and advantage are expected to suddenly (in societal evolution time) share some of that power, it is often perceived as discrimination.

        (c)    This was said by Rush Limbaugh, who is obviously no anti‐racist, but this comment is loaded with white people’s fears of people of color, especially if “they” gained control.  

        Embedded here is also the assumption that to be “pro‐Black” (or any color) is to be anti‐white.  A similar illogical accusation is directed at women who work for and end to
        violence against women and girls.  Women who work to better the lives of women are regularly accused of being “anti‐male.

        Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

        by awesumtenor on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:04:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Uh, no. (0+ / 0-)

          I understand what racism and reverse racism is. Please actually read the diary. This woman isn't "just pro-Black," shes "anti-White."

          I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma- Wizard of Oz; If you have half a brain you won't need a diploma- Frank Levey www.MarylandPoliticalNews.Com

          by weathercoins on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:07:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Re-read my response (0+ / 0-)

            I noted her issues with caucasians... and I know it helps you sleep at night to presume that everyone is racist, as you define racism... but the fact remains that racism is more than prejudice... she can no more oppress any of the white people she interacted with as noted in the blog than she can oppress you... and she doesn't even know you exist.

            She cannot tilt the playing field so it favors her at your expense. She cannot prevent you from living where you choose, attending church where you choose, prevent you from getting accepted to any school or hired for any job... and the stated yet ungrounded fears of the political right that it's a matter of time before this black president starts to get back at white america do not alter the fact that this woman has no power to hold back any white person in this society.

            Issues with white people? Yes, she does... but there is another shoe to drop; the rest of the story which notes how she came to the place where people like you evoked in her such a reflexive anger. Such things do not exist in a vacuum; they are a direct response to an event or events... not that you would care, of course...

            Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

            by awesumtenor on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:45:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  and, BTW (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mallyroyal

            there is no such thing as reverse racism; that is a construct by racists for the purpose or rationalizing their racism. It's a right-wing meme intend to make their racism more benign to whites not in their camp and, they hope, to rally them eventually to their banner

            Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

            by awesumtenor on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:50:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ah, the conspiracy theories (0+ / 0-)

              Are always fun! This woman in the diary is a racist. If you think that makes me a racist, so be it.

              I can't give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma- Wizard of Oz; If you have half a brain you won't need a diploma- Frank Levey www.MarylandPoliticalNews.Com

              by weathercoins on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:41:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I have no idea if this is legit. (2+ / 0-)

    I can say that after several decades in feminist-related political activism, some of her complaints ring very true.  I cannot count the number of times I've heard women relate stories of being dismissed and disrespected by white male liberals.  Forty-some years ago it got so bad that the second wave feminists broke off from the generalized left and formed their own movement.  
    And it's still there today.  As a white male liberal myself, I can attest to that, even to the extent that I've caught myself doing it more than once.  

  •  My suggestion for OWS as a follow up (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz, mahakali overdrive

    ...which will attract lots of media attention to OWS, too:

    On special occasions, break up into groups. Maybe men on one side, women on the other......Maybe fan out according to skin color another time......then pair off by opposites.

    Interesting visuals and food for thought, opportunities to open discussions on necessary topics.

    As for women being ignored or dismissed, it's basic wiring--studies show that even ardent feminist teachers are shocked to be shown how they don't call on female students as often as males. I've sat through any number of business meetings where women make great points, are ignored, then when a man says the same things he gets heard. This is why, when leading meetings, it's important to make sure each person gets a fair chance.

    SCIENCE NEWS
    Deep Male Voice Helps Women Remember, Study Finds
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/...

  •  If this is accurate... (0+ / 0-)

    this is disturbing.  

    "The bottom line is, we've got to wake up. We can't allow our disappointment in Obama to lull us into allowing a truly dangerous strain of conservative philosophy to gain any more traction than it already has." --ObamOcala 4/5/11

    by smoothnmellow on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 09:13:27 AM PDT

  •  This is why I want to see more Kossacks writing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive, mallyroyal

    about their experiences - and more Kossacks that aren't white males.

  •  I can sort of see the point that Occupy Harlem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mahakali overdrive

    wouldn't quite have the same connotation as Occupy Wall St. They should call it Harlem uprising or Bronx uprising. Or call it "Harlem Occupies".

  •  Blacks Were Victims & Scapegoats Of GOPers, Banks (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw, mahakali overdrive

    Blacks were disproportionally steered into subprime mortgages even when they qualified for better terms.

    Then when the crisis occurred, wingnuts universally blamed the government forcing banks to give bad loan to blacks (which isn't true and never mind how that caused banks in Ireland, Iceland, and Greece to collapse).

    So this lady got her nose out of joint and her response is to unintentionally throw a nice favor to the predatory lenders who prey on Blacks and racist conspiracy nuts?

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 11:39:11 AM PDT

  •  Presumably, my niece, who is of African (0+ / 0-)

    and European heritage, and was raised in a middle class home in Colorado, is a white talking, white lovin', passive bitch. Actually, she is working in Boston with underprivileged special needs kids and hopes to get a post graduate degree in child psychology. Should she adopt a dialect so that she can pass in this woman's eyes?

    Whether this bigoted screed was the work of a real person or not is one thing. The fact that it was unquestioningly embraced here is just sad.

    I guess any bullshit will do when it affirms our prejudices, hence the perennial popularity of The Protocols of Zion.

    They always demand the biggest carrot and then offer to rent us the stick. Occupy!

    by chuckvw on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:40:07 PM PDT

  •  I think I found her (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chuckvw

    But I don't think it is the same person who wrote this piece.

    There is a woman named Reena Walker.  Her facebook page is here:
    https://www.facebook.com/people/Reena-Walker/724755762?sk=wall

    And she has been involved in the movement.  Here is part of an interview with her:
    ____________
    ‘Black’ issues represented

    Reena Walker of Harlem is on the People of Color Subcommittee of Occupy Wall Street and chair of Progressive Black Thinkers. She spoke exclusively to Florida Courier reporter Ashley Thomas, who was at the site.

    "I felt it was very important for our presence to be here to be visible in the park, not just to be a part of looking at everything as a spectator – but also to be front and center so that the issues that face the Black community can be a main part of the agenda in OWS (Occupy Wall Street)," she said.

    "The Black community is disproportionately affected by all the issues portrayed, especially when it comes to mass incarcerations and the prison-industrial complex.

    "The economic situation is dire right now, the unemployment rate in the Black community is out of control – it’s like over 30 percent. When America gets a cold, the Black community gets the flu."

    Walker says it’s important that Black Americans participate in the Occupy movement.

    "The issues that are being raised here affect us the most. Our banking systems, corporate giants, corporate greed, campaign financers. We have to be here to articulate those things that we feel that are important.

    "We are trying to push to get rid of that and be sure that we are also not just included, but (we are) a major part of this movement. We have to make our presence known and have to make our voices heard," Walker concluded.

    http://www.flcourier.com/...
    _______________

    Does that sound like the screed posted in the piece attributed to her here?  It doesn't to me.

    It looks to me like somebody wrote a piece of propaganda using her name.  I have a message out to her on facebook to see if she can confirm or deny this piece.

    It sounds like this woman, Reena Walker is an activist who has been smeared by the right wing propaganda machine.

    •  Shades of ACORN perhaps (0+ / 0-)

      They always demand the biggest carrot and then offer to rent us the stick. Occupy!

      by chuckvw on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 01:26:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mahakali overdrive, mallyroyal

      see mahakali overdrive's comments above. There is more than one Reena Walker. This person is real, and this was her account.

      R.I.P. Troy Anthony Davis
      October 9, 1968 - September 21, 2011

      by SwedishJewfish on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:07:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thank you (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SwedishJewfish, mallyroyal

        These Reena Walker's ARE the same person. They have the same photographs. She is presenting two images, without a doubt. And that's the root of much misunderstanding.

        I have thoroughly investigated her, linking to every online remark made about her, along with photos, personal information, etc... that exists in the public domain.

        "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

        by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:28:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  So here is the same person from the FB above (0+ / 0-)

      on the FB site for Progressive Black Thinkers. Same person. You can click the same link to her profile. Her wall is open.

      http://www.facebook.com/...

      And there, on that group, she states (from the account linked to in the diary that wrote that same note - you scroll down on that link and see that it's the same person making the same comment, just click on her profile photo):

      Reena Walker
      Since I posted my very real experience about what happened to me on the days I spent in the park with Occupy Wall Street can you believe these people want to know now if I'M a real person or if I'm a Republican (those of you who know me know how hilarious that is)? Instead of their working on trying to address the concerns I raised and putting mechanisms in place to address these issues, once agai...n they focus on trying to criminalize black people when they speak up about their oppression and experiences. This only further proves my point about their insensitivity to what we as black people contend with on a regular basis. Following them will help us to gain nothing but more pain. After reading these responses Im even more convinced than I was before that we have no real voice within that movement and we need to create our own. The thing that's so interesting is that if any of these people had been doing any activist work themselves in the past twenty years they would already know who I am or know of me.See More
      11 hours ago via mobile

            5 people like this.
         
                o
                  Vince Iamthatdude Pass Watching the news this morniing. . .THE REPORTERS ARE WAITING ON A CLEAR AGENDA, WASHINGTON IS WAITING ON A CLEAR AGENDA.. ..I AM TIRED OCCUPY MY BED
                  10 hours ago via mobile
                o
                  Brian Hickman whoever thought black people would actually benefit off of this,was sadlt mistaken..how many times must we learn that "white" people once givne any chance will SHIT ON US...
                  9 hours ago · 1 personLoading...
                o
                  Brian Hickman given
      *
                  9 hours ago
                o
                  Mandingo Tolbert A revolution is HERE and black folk cant find there place, (wow) Reena i feel terrible about your experience there, but is there no place in this movement which despite what reporters say is slightly organized and somewhat funded ?, are we gonna miss our chance to align ourselves with a movement that has the opportunity to snowball into something HUGE and impacting ? is there no black leader who can see this potential ? dont issues that concern the poor concern black folk ? When black folk, so called KINGS and QUEENS gonna stop whinin bout mister charlie and what he wont let us do. Prayin aint workin, Obama doin what he always would (playin politics), this is our opportunity too be heard niggaz betta stop whinin and get in where we fit in, these issues DO concern us Corporate Greed the root of all evil has had the most affect on black folk if ever there was a time for us too be heard NOW is that time while a movement is in progress.
                  7 hours ago
                o
                  Mandingo Tolbert We have been splintered by design, not enough of us (black folk) care about the same thing at the same time, those were questions i asked and not an attack, i am really interested too see if we can be represented in this movement, there must be a way.
                  7 hours ago
                o
                  Brian Hickman when the "white" serfs get their 30 pieces of silver while we hold their hands,then turn around to get spat at..what we gonna say and do then? say we shouldnt have bothered with them? hindsight is 20/20..but its dam time we start saying fuck`em and keep building amongst us...its good that Reena wrote this.get those we are the world blacks to wake the fuck up and smell the spoiled cream in their coffee..
                  7 hours ago · 2 peopleLoading...
                o
                  Brian Hickman we need to organize ourselves and stop thinking everyone elses fight is our own..
                  7 hours ago · 1 personLoading...
                o
                  Mandingo Tolbert ‎"we need to organize ourselves"...........When ? where? How? a bunch of PBTers cant even seem too organize here for a common goal. How many here have supported Reena,s fund drive financially? a sign of REAL commitment, i dont profess to have all the answers , ijs all i see comin from the most progressive thinkers is negativity, there is potential here, you people dont see that? well brother Hickman more than a month ago 9 college students occupied wall street and started a "GLOBAL MOVEMENT" your turn.....................
                  7 hours ago
                o
                  Reena Walker I have to say that we have to begin to organize ourselves. I dont see these people as having our issues at heart. Why? Fundamentally because it contradicts what they stand for which is white supremacy. The time I spent there showed me very clearly that despite the fact that there were well meaning white people mixed in, there is no way that the oppression of black people will ever be front and center as an issue when it should be if any group truly endeavors to be about the business of dismantling the system and standing up for the people. They will not acknowledge that this system was built on the backs of black people and is maintained by racism. They want us to basically trade one master for another and are unwilling to relinquish the white supremacy construct so why should we be on board with them if there is no desire on their part to change this? It doesnt make sense to. If any group knows how to create change its black folks. We dont have to get behind any group to do so.
                  5 hours ago via mobile · 1 personLoading...
                o
                  Brian Hickman i didnt even know there was a fund...besides if the arab invaders of egypt can use book of face to organize why cant we? talk about negativity? where is the positivity in holding someone elses sword only to get stabbed in the back by the same people who your fighting for?
                  5 hours ago · 1 personLoading...
                o
                  Brian Hickman or is it hip to be a tool?
                  5 hours ago
                o
                  Brian Hickman ‎"well brother Hickman more than a month ago 9 college students occupied wall street and started a "GLOBAL MOVEMENT" your turn....................." 9 college students have NOTHING to do about what the post was about...can you stay on topic or are red herrings in?
                  5 hours ago
                o
                  Reena Walker I dont think this nine college student myth is true either as a group called Anonymous was behind this from the beginning and since they are anonymous we cant be sure who was really behind it. This might be the same strategy that was used in Libya that had the opposite effect of what happened in Tunisia and Egypt in terms of agenda. So we have to be willing to question everything and keep our eyes and ears open.
                  5 hours ago via mobile
                o
                  Mandingo Tolbert just sayin bro, i think they did a major thing, outside of Reenas perspective which i respect and believe too be true is there not a way for us too be involved, there is a global movement going on that already has the worlds attention, as a strategist i would say now is the time for a plan too be implemented that involves our concerns, start a think tank now, organize now, just stop finger pointin and blamin and see how many Kings and Queens show up. I see an opportunity here, after this uprising the gates WILL be closed thats what the patriot act was for, we already live in a police state but most people dont know that cause they never leave their state. Reena you are at ground zero is there nothing we can do? no way we can be heard ? if not now then i say never. nothing will be given too us many died in the civil rights movement and many more will die if change is to occur, we are talking about the redistribution of wealth and fair play these things will not be handed over to us we will have too wrestle it from the cold dead hands of "they".
                  4 hours ago
                o
                  Vince Iamthatdude Pass There is a lot of propaganda and ghost organizations popping up out of no where. First, if these goverment places were hacked we will never know to the extent that we are seeing video on these guys they would stay invisible. Just like u have to question a lot of the other shit that keeps poppin up like Nov 5th hackers will attempt to shut down facebook there is so much out there to jump on and hold onto we have got to be careful. . .
                  4 hours ago via mobile
                o
                  Reena Walker and death is probably going to happen if we take the lead and i dont think people are ready to face that possibility which makes people less inclined to get involved with struggle. the fact that our greatest have been killed left is with a fear we have yet to get past and a reluctance to get involved. we wonder if its worth it to sacrifice our lives when there is such apathy. this is the discussion we need to have. time for another pbt forum. i think that we need a community forum in harlem, where things begin, in order to get things started. it is not unusual for black people to not be on the same page. just because we are all oppressed together doesnt mean we are all going to think the same way. king, malcolm, sncc and the panthers all had different approaches to the same problem.
                  4 hours ago via mobile · 2 peopleLoading...
                o
                  Vince Iamthatdude Pass I agree with Reena, first we have to get past the fear of having the conversation. I find it that many black people live in a place of avoidance not just on issues that effect the outcome of humanity they practice avoidance in there own personal lives. FOREVER EVADING ACTUAL REALITY is deeply connected to the THINGS that are acquired monetarily many black people are afraid to lose in order to gain. Many are looking for right now satisfaction Not understanding the pace of the race
                  4 hours ago via mobile
                o
                  Mandingo Tolbert But they agreed that revolution was necessary, i care not if we agree or how just that we agree that we should and i agree with your assessment on why it it hasnt, so if thats the case how do you get a bunch of scared folk not on the same page conditioned adversely like NO OTHER too organize? "splintered by design for a moment such as this" these present conditions have been more than 31yrs in the makin, the last "Great Assault" by the government on our communities we are and have been reaping the affects of "Iran Contra" the govt dumping crack cocaine in our neighborhoods and creating a plethora of ills and weakening us from the inside out all while making a buck b%#@$
      $.
                  3 hours ago
                o
                  Reena Walker we have to begin by realizing that we are the ones we have been waiting for and not a make believe jesus.
                  3 hours ago via mobile · 2 peopleLoading...
                o
                  Reena Walker if we could get our self esteem to that level that would be progress. between the bible and the gun such a mind job has been done on our people.
                  3 hours ago via mobile · 1 personLoading...
                o
                  Mandingo Tolbert The tools they use too condition us have been in place for far too long and the reconditioning of the black psyche will take generations, if you waiting on black folk to get it together, good luck with that, niggas really are scared of revolution, if i was King i would want my life back real talk.
                  2 hours ago
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                  Babel Back ‎@ Reena Walker. I once read (an article) about a group..As an off-shot to Occupy-Wall-Street, generalizing about organizing behind the title/name "Occupy-the-hood". Now I wouldn't follow these characters/people...Because the leader of this group and/or potential-idea seemed to be some kind of a long-time (on-going) speaker/affiliate of an NA/Narcotics-Anonoymous group. Yet my point is to say that if we're ever going to organize? Where going to have to have a seriously thought-out name and/or title to organize under. We don't need to necessarly state our full purpose (at this time). Because as black-people, I'm sure that our purpose will be known...As in it's generalizations of itself. Yet we do need some kind of an organizing name...That would be taken in seriousness. And it don't have to be (necessarly) as an off-shot to OWS. I'll say something like "Occupy the Urban Voice"/OUV (but that's just an example). I don't see why it was such a shock (to black-people) that they weren't generally accepted into this white-orientated movement/reaction/protest-against-wrong-doing? At the end of the day, this is about white-peoples money. and we're the one's who's getting the lost/sufferings (of-it) balanced on our heads. Therefore, we have to come at-it from a different angle. That's why I suggest that we come-up with a whole diffrent angle of an approach...To this protest-issue/occurence. And give ourselves a name...Under the title "voice" (Occupy Urban "Voice", in my suggestion) so that we can come from our perspective...As it pertains to the whole perspective, in general (Occupy Wall Street). Lets "Occupy" our own voice, first...So that we'll all be on the same page (black-people/Urban Voice). Then apply-it to whatever they're talking about...As it relates to Wall Street (OWS). That's just my little central-minded opinion. And I will seek further opinion and/or input...As I contiue to read. Thoughts?
                  2 hours ago
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                  Babel Back We don't need money to unify our voice...Just saying.
                  2 hours ago
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                  Mandingo Tolbert Always need money bro, money is how white people know that black people are committed to bullshit, remember follow the money trail? well our leads right to the beauty supply, da nailshop, da rim shop, and da offerin plate and all da other non productive places we spend not invest our money, these problems being addressed concern us all these are world issues everybody but China is up in arms or am i missing something, well while im occupying something yall keep me abreast of the Black Movement, if there is one.
                  2 hours ago
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                  Reena Walker black people are already preoccupied with too much nonsense. we have to begin to instill a consciousness on a massive scale as we have yet to regain some real pro black survival sensibilities or set an agenda to work toward and attain. if we are going to have or see any real lasting change the name comes from the agenda not from a particular action like occupying wall street.
                  2 minutes ago via mobile

      bold not intentional. I don't know why it's doing that.

      "This movement is not about the destruction of law, it is about the construction of law." - Julian Assange

      by mahakali overdrive on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 02:39:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I have no doubt (0+ / 0-)

        that black people experience racism every day, and I believe that can happen one to one at the downtown NYC movement.

        People of all colors exhibit biases against the other...and we all need to learn not to do that.

        But this rant is over the top.  Because some people did not agree with her she went completely negative.

        That is not going to do anything but get people to go negative right back at her.

  •  You know, I've just been skimming the comments... (0+ / 0-)

    ...here, and I must say that there is something rather creepy about the web searches and attempts to verify/debunk this article.

    I mean, are the specific details of the identity of this woman really so important as to justify all the effort going into "researching" every aspect of her identity and her life?

    Or are we getting just a little too carried away with it?

    She's not a celebrity, and we're not the Paparazzi.

    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

    by ehrenfeucht games on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:50:09 PM PDT

    •  People are trying to understand (0+ / 0-)

      how this woman can be two people in one.

    •  White Boy Cowards always do this (0+ / 0-)

      They fixate on finding out who she is, so they can harrass her IRL.  

      They do that to attempt to scare her into silence.

      They do that because they are useless bigot cowards who, they have the same unearned privilege they rail against in others, sans the money.

      Left-leaning dudes have always been just as racist and sexist as their right-leaning counterparts.   They think women are for cooking, cleaning and fucking, just like repigs.  They think racism doesn't exist because they don't experience it, except for that one time someone called them a cracker and it hurt their fee fees.

      All of them?  No, absolutely not.  But, ignoring the issue doesn't correct the issue.  

  •  Bigots ruin everything. (0+ / 0-)

    This is a surprise to no one.  

    Yet, I'm surprised at how many dumbasses are caling her a liar.  Do you honestly think racism and sexism don't exist?  Do you honestly think OWS people can't be racist and sexist?  Do you honestly think ignoring this problem will HELP the movement?

    Grow the fuck up.  Address the issues.  Bring MORE PEOPLE TO THE MOVEMENT.

    Alternatively, you can cry like little brats, pout like useless turds and drive more people away.

    Choose wisely.

  •  Get a grip (0+ / 0-)

    We need Reena. This movement is the result of a perfect storm: students graduating college to overwhelming debt, homeowners losing their homes, veterans not being helped, people losing health coverage, decimation of education, Social Security threatened. The result is the lowering of the middle class. Reena is feeling that, in addition to sexism.

    I experience sexism, too. When it happens, I basically walk away. But, I'm not leaving OWS.

    Reena can form (a) group(s) in the movement, such as "Racism," or "Race/Gender Relations." She can do social marketing and find like-minded people.  

    Eventually, all of our voices are going to be united, and there will be a better place for us all. We just need to stick it out.

    A lot of people have quit so far...this is their personal choice. But, this has been the best place for my voice to be heard in my life. That's one of the beauties of the concept of the 99%. And, I hope Reena doesn't quit that.

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