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No business can be successful (and create jobs) without a healthy middle class buying their products (Reuters)
It's an article of faith among the Right that jobs are created by the wealthy. But really, how successful would've Steve Jobs been had no one bought his computers and iPods?

Nick Hanauer, a wildly successful tech entrepreneur, states what should be obvious:

I can start a business based on a great idea, and initially hire dozens or hundreds of people. But if no one can afford to buy what I have to sell, my business will soon fail and all those jobs will evaporate.

That’s why I can say with confidence that rich people don’t create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is the feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion a virtuous cycle that allows companies to survive and thrive and business owners to hire. An ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than I ever have been or ever will be.

That doesn't mean that entrepreneours are worthless pieces of shit. Obviously, they must exist to start companies and generate ideas. But they're only part of the puzzle. Daily Kos wouldn't exist without me. But Daily Kos also wouldn't exist without you. Why should one piece of that puzzle be valued higher than the other?

It is unquestionably true that without entrepreneurs and investors, you can’t have a dynamic and growing capitalist economy. But it’s equally true that without consumers, you can’t have entrepreneurs and investors. And the more we have happy customers with lots of disposable income, the better our businesses will do.

Republicans are hell-bent on destroying the middle class in pursuit of greater wealth for the one percent. The flaw in their thinking is—what happens when there's no one left to buy their products?

Originally posted to kos on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 09:56 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Hierarchy and the value of social position (6+ / 0-)

    In an egalitarian society where any difference in status arises out of respect and admiration freely given instead of fear and abuse, different positions are not over or under valued. Leadership is not valued over being a good follower. Management is not more valuable than workers. Therefore, you do not have social climbers trying to fill high status positions they are not suited for. You get real leaders and managers filling those position, people whose mind set and character make them right for those jobs.

    An egalitarian society can be MORE of a true meritocracy than a hierarchical society could ever be.

    •  I was about to write a much less (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mideedah

      articulate version of that argument.

      Of course, the person who takes risk and organizes the resources receives the money and accolades, like Kos in his article.

      As a society, we've been accelerating down a path over the last few years where money and accolades aren't enough for some people; there must be MORE attached to the equation. I'm not sure what else there can possibly be. Must other people be humiliated or destroyed in the process? What is the possible end game?

      "A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer

      by CFAmick on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:48:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  End game? Our total and complete dependence (0+ / 0-)

        They are the father figures, we are the children. They require more than our subservience. They require that we thank them for it as well. There's your end game. This isn't about money. This is about the power to dominate and control other people's lives.

    •  OK... (0+ / 0-)

      show me one.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 02:04:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The old Henry Ford story (23+ / 0-)
    And only consumers can set in motion a virtuous cycle that allows companies to survive and thrive and business owners to hire.

    Ford was walking down the assembly line with his union leader bragging about automated processes.  

    These machines won't strike
    said Ford
    nor will they buy cars!
    was the answer

    An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

    by don mikulecky on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 10:06:06 AM PST

    •  At least Ford still has… (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW

      …an assembly line or two still in the United States. Everyone else's non-striking machines have been replaced with Chinese serfs.

      Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com. Get your We are the 99% Yard Sign.

      by DemSign on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:32:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And the answer to who buys the stuff if we can't (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stwriley

        Is to sell it overseas as emblematic of the good life.  

        Don't know if that will work for everything. I've read the Chinese are bewildered  by much of the junk they are asked to make for the US.

        The scientific uncertainty doesn't mean that climate change isn't actually happening.

        by Mimikatz on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:53:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not sure Markos knows just how right he is... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Stwriley, Mr MadAsHell, Dube, mideedah

          ...when he emphasized the fact that the Uber-wealthy are not the job creators.  Here are some excerpts from my last blog posting:

          Number 1: ALL JOBS IN THE ECONOMY ARE DEPENDENT ON SPENDING, the spending of households, firms, and governments. That’s where the money comes from that pays everyone’s salaries.

          Number 2: MONEY SAVED IS MONEY NOT SPENT. A decision to save is a willful decision to not spend.

          Number 3: IF THE MONEY THAT IS SAVED IS NOT RETURNED TO THE ECONOMY THROUGH THE SPENDING DECISIONS OF BORROWERS, THEN THERE IS A NET LOSS OF MONEY FROM THE ECONOMY AND JOBS DISAPPEAR.

          Well, the smart thing to do during a recession is for the government to increase the tax obligations of the nation’s biggest savers, i.e., the Top 10%-15% of income earners, in order to finance major spending initiatives on true economic investments: infrastructure and human capital.

          “No! No! No!”, say The Republicans. “That would take money away from the Job Creators!”

          Oh really? Says who?

          Since we know that all jobs are dependent upon spending, how does it make any sense to call the economy’s biggest savers job creators when their [money saving] actions do precisely the opposite? Since the lower- and middle-classes spend nearly all of their incomes, are they not the true job creators?

          Contrary to the insinuations of Republican politicians, roughly 85% of all corporate spending on investment is financed by retained earnings and other ‘internal’ sources of revenue, and not by borrowed funds (i.e., not by the ‘Job Creators’).

          The money removed from the economy by wealthy savers is not desperately needed by businesses for most of their investment plans. What does stimulate business investment is an increase in demand for their products.

          In an economy suffering from 9% unemployment, it is clear that a lot of the money that has been removed from the economy by savers is not being lent to borrowers, or else the economy would certainly be booming.

          Now if/when the federal government increases the tax obligations of the Top Fifteen Percent of income earners, it will collect a great deal of money from the nations Biggest Savers. If Congress is smart, it will spend ALL OF THOSE FUNDS on desperately-needed public investments.

          Understand clearly the net result of taxing the rich more during an economic recession: money that would have been removed from the economy by the nation’s biggest savers gets spent, instead, by the federal government.

    •  I think you have that backwards... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter

      It was Ford (not Henry, his son or grandson) who was bragging about the automation.  It was the union leader who said none of the robots will buy cards.  I forgot the labor leader's name, but it is something like Elio Root.

      The 'Free Market' will decide. It will decide that the United States cannot consume 25% of the world's resources and the upper 1% cannot control 50% of the wealth.

      by RichM on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:39:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Found it... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mideedah

        It was Walter Reuther.  Link.  Ford quipped, "How will you get any of those robots to pay union dues." To which Reuther replied, "How will you get those robots to buy cars?"

        The 'Free Market' will decide. It will decide that the United States cannot consume 25% of the world's resources and the upper 1% cannot control 50% of the wealth.

        by RichM on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 02:51:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Therein lies the rub (8+ / 0-)

      The conundrum of capitalism:

      Pay workers as little as possible to make your widget, yet expect OTHER widget makers to pay a decent wage so someone can afford YOUR widgets.

      How's that working out?

      Inquiry that does not achieve coordination of behaviour is not inquiry but simply wordplay - Richard Rorty

      by BuckMulligan on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:43:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It works as long as the 1% get richer and we (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stwriley, BuckMulligan

        get poorer.  When it fails it will fail on a very large scale.  It will be a complex failure based on issues like whether or not the global economy can go on growing while all the resources it needs dwindle.  Labor is never scarce.  There is all of Africa to exploit, for example.

        An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the moment. It stands or falls on its own merits.

        by don mikulecky on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:19:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Wow.. (0+ / 0-)

      23 recommends for a factually incorrect statement...

      The 'Free Market' will decide. It will decide that the United States cannot consume 25% of the world's resources and the upper 1% cannot control 50% of the wealth.

      by RichM on Fri Dec 02, 2011 at 08:37:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's all about aggregate demand growth.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Marjmar

    ....which is why increases in regressive taxes at the state and municipal level are so damaging to the economy.

    Instead of increasing the sales tax, as Senator Durbin wants (via his tax the internet legislation) cities and states should be slashing the sales tax.

    I applaud President Obama for cutting taxes at the national level.  Indeed, he'd be able to run as a middle-class tax cutter if he wants.

    Regrettably, most Dems at the state and city level can't, as they have significantly increased the tax burden on the working and middle-class over the last four years.

    Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

    by PatriciaVa on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 10:11:36 AM PST

    •  Really? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter

      Prove to me that "Regrettably, most Dems at the state and city level can't, as they have significantly increased the tax burden on the working and middle-class over the last four years." because I do not believe you. Also, I think your "centrist economics," the Hamilton Project, and the Brookings Institute are total right wing trash. If that offends you, good.

    •  I don't know of ANY Dems at local or state level (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      trumpeter

      that have raised taxes or increased the burden on middle class familys.  I think you got your D's and R's confused.

      •  What amazes me in Florida (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dube

        is the right keeps raising taxes on working people and Republicans keep voting for it.  Fees have gone up a ton to make up for lost property tax and sales tax revenue, yet Republicans keep getting elected down here.  Crazy shit.  Doesn't help that the Democratic Party down here is mostly ineffective at the leadership level, though there's plenty of hard working Democrats at the local level, at least here in Orange County.

        No nation can be great if it allows its elites to loot with impunity and prosecutes its whistleblowers. Geithner is destroying the things that made America great. -- Bill Black, white-collar criminologist & a former senior financial regulator

        by jboxman on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:55:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Do a Google Search, Sales Tax Increase... (0+ / 0-)

        ...on Google News, and you'll see I'm right.

        I'll add...

        In NJ, Governor Corzine increased the sales tax by 16% within the lst four years.

        In IL, Governor Quinn increased the flat income tax by 66% on every household.

        In many states, Dem governors are increasing the license renewal tax.

        In many cities, Dem mayors are increasing the parking rate/tax.

        Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

        by PatriciaVa on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:05:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Just Move All Consumption Where The Production Is! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shrew in Shrewsbury, Stwriley
      Republicans are hell-bent on destroying the middle class in pursuit of greater wealth for the one percent. The flaw in their thinking is—what happens when there's no one left to buy their products?

      That's not a problem for the 1% anymore than it is for the 1% Thugs and Fixers, Kleptocracies and Dictatorships around the world. What do those elites living in fortified compounds do when their own people are all too poor to buy anything? When the mass of the population lives in ignorant squalor like Haiti?

      Just because the consumer economy of the U.S. tanks doesn't mean the ultra-rich have to suffer any more than economic collapse in Africa or South America caused their elites to suffer.

      They can always do what dictators do worldwide: invest their profits overseas! I imagine if the entire globe is reduced to serfdom that the 1% ers will find new places to invest their money. Floating offshore stock exchanges perhaps.

      Short of a revolution that chops off all their heads, the 1% can always find other ways to invest their money than the U.S. consumer market.

      •  Another Monty Python Moment! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stwriley, trumpeter

        Like virtually everything else Monty Python anticipated this back in 1970:

        City-Gent wearing a pin-striped suit & bowler hat: "As a member of the Stock Exchange I would sell the widows and orphans and go into South American zinc!"

    •  The Republicans, representing the 1%, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stwriley, Mr MadAsHell, trumpeter

      see aggregate demand growth on a global scale.  As long as they have immediate customers, they don't care whether they're in the U.S. or anywhere else on the globe.  They also don't care that their customers' purchasing power may be short-lived.  Their entire business models are built on quarterly reporting and yearly bonuses.  As long as the CEO's, the boards and upper management get theirs before the whole house of cards collapses, they're fine with that.  As long as the Wall Street gambling palaces stay open and unregulated, they figure there will be plenty of players.  It pays to be the "house."

      As for Republicans who live their lives in the middle class, the working class or among the poor, there is no excuse for their being Republicans at all

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:50:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not so much that they've increased them... (0+ / 0-)

      as that they can't afford in a political sense to decrease them. The problem rests on the fact that states and municipalities have been absorbing more and more of the costs of providing services and have to pay for it somehow. They could cut sales taxes, but that would insure that they'd have to cut services along with them as revenue dried up. Those services, paid for by sales taxes at the state and especially the local level, mostly go to the 99% (and even more so to the lowest 80%) and would hurt the very people who would benefit from the sales tax reduction. The 1% would barely notice the difference and can pay for services themselves without having to rely as much on local and state governments.

      It's one of those ideas that sounds good, but isn't so good when you work through the implications. If we could replace the sales taxes with more progressive taxation, that would be great, but in today's political climate that kind of proposal has about the same chance as a snowball in a microwave.

      Conservito delenda est pro is deleo orbis terrarum!

      by Stwriley on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:26:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The GOP is following the Roman, Greek & British (7+ / 0-)

    empire model for America.

    In other words, the American Empire is being led right down the toilet by all Republicans and many, unfortunately, Democrats.

    "We are a Plutocracy, we ought to face it. We need, desperately, to find new ways to hear independent voices & points of view" Ramsey Clark, U.S. Attorney General.

    by Mr SeeMore on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 10:13:44 AM PST

    •  Not exactly... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stwriley, trumpeter

      Successful empires (such as the Greeks, Romans and British) occur when conquering territory is a net capital gain.  Today, our leaders are sucking the homeland dry to send capital over sees.  They aren't following the 'old school' empire.  They are doing something much worse.

      The 'Free Market' will decide. It will decide that the United States cannot consume 25% of the world's resources and the upper 1% cannot control 50% of the wealth.

      by RichM on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:48:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kos, the problem is much deeper than who creates (8+ / 0-)

    jobs and who doesn't. There is a sense that America is failing its citizens in ALL areas.

    As an aside, are you aware that China recently built, as a gift, to Costa Rica the largest (fotbal) soccer stadium in Central America...about 100 million dollars worth of goodwill. In fact, people there are starting to learn the Chinese language as they see the writing on the wall.  

    "We are a Plutocracy, we ought to face it. We need, desperately, to find new ways to hear independent voices & points of view" Ramsey Clark, U.S. Attorney General.

    by Mr SeeMore on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 10:30:09 AM PST

  •  What does it matter if (7+ / 0-)

    all that we are buying is being made in another country.

    We need to get back to "Buy American"- if only we could find the products that actually are made in the USA.

    Growing old is inevitable...Growing up is purely optional

    by grannycarol on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 10:34:19 AM PST

    •  I did (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grannycarol, Stwriley

      I found a great gift at an American company (in Maine) made by another American company for my nephew's Christmas gift.. A snow fort maker with a snow ball maker!!!  So far I have bought products from small businesses in my state/city that are local made or gifts made in the USA. If it is not made in the USA, it wouldn't go into a stocking or under the tree. Amazing what local people are making to sell at craft shows or thru their websites in NC.

      Why do Republicans Hate Americans?

      by Caniac41 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:30:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That theory sounds good on paper... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Treg, grannycarol, Stwriley

      but most people are unwilling or unable to spend twice as much on products just for the warm fuzzies over the "Made in USA" label.

      Not only that, but it's become much more difficult to decern what is true made in the US.  Are all the parts made her?  Are the raw materials sourced from here?  Are they assembled here?  How far should the "made" trail go?  It's unreasonable to think that people will spend hours doing research about products to figure out what parts came from where and who assembled them.  It's not practical, but it does sound nice on paper.

    •  Every small town has an Art Center (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grannycarol, Stwriley

      filled with things made by friends and neighbors.

      Also, try Etsy.com  Use the search for Made in USA

      and kos katalogue

    •  I did too (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grannycarol, Stwriley

      Recently bought a Christmas tree, plastic tree stand, stapler, and a Lil' Giant ladder thing.  All were made in the USA!

      Nothing cost more than the foreign equivalents.

      Please tell me we're not importing Christmas trees (other than from Canada)!

      I'm looking for as many made in the USA, or best made locally by small artisans, gifts as possible this year.

    •  Go a step further: buy local (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grannycarol, divineorder

      I get my honey from a local apiary, as much produce, etc as I can from the local farmer's market, and I'm constantly sniffing out new ways to buy and barter locally and avoid the mass-produced garbage in stores.

      "Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." - Napoleon Bonaparte (attributed)

      by Jaxpagan on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:55:45 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Furniture is mostly made here. (0+ / 0-)

      At least the large pieces we generally think of when we say "furniture." This kind of product is a good bet for the "Made in America" drive, since the costs of transporting large, heavy, relatively low-price good like this tends to outweigh the savings to be had by building it overseas.

      Of course, much of it is made in so-called "right to work" states in non-union shops, but at least it's American-made.

      Conservito delenda est pro is deleo orbis terrarum!

      by Stwriley on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:36:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The idea of limitless demand (10+ / 0-)

    That no matter how much you supress wages and increase the cost of living, demand will always be there, is a staple component of supply-side economics.

    Quite frankly, it is absurd.  

    When you continually give to supply (and finance) at the expense of demand, eventually you're going to end up with a supply-side surplus.  

    The 1% think they outsmarted that reality with JIT supply-chain technology, but the reality is they haven't.  They just end up making less and selling less in a steadily shrinking flow.  Eventually, the cost of the supply-chain infrastructure itself becomes too big of a share of costs and tough decisions have to be made.  

    Walmart, who is the unquestioned leader of supply-chain tech, has experienced declining profits.  This is sort of reflective of this model of shrinking demand.

    Now Walmart has such a strong market-share they can weather the recessions and keep they stock price high for a long period of time, but one has to wonder...  If retail sales continue to struggle, and if the middle class continues to shrink, how long before the costs of Walmart's supply chain infrastructure becomes a liability?  

    Simply put without customers buying things, even Walmart will eventually succumb to demand deficiency.  

    I digress...  There is no demand fairy who will magically put disposable income into consumers pockets.  The more the median wage earner has to come out of pocket for things like health insurance, energy, food and retirement the less he has to buy things like TVs and toaster ovens - especially as median wage stagnates and/or declines.  

    These are the things that Keynes (gasp - oh no!) were talking about when he explained the Great Depression.  The very same things that supply-side henchmen (I mean economists) made into a punch-line starting in (and before)1980.  

    It's not so funny now that some of the wealthy are themselves feeling the pinch of recession.  Money doesn't trickle down, but recession does trickle up as demand begins to recede.

    It's crazy that people would actually be shocked at widening income disparity after decades of "give to the rich" economic policy - but ridiculously some are.

    The question is are those that championed the policy truly shocked or are they pretending to be shocked now that they've been caught with their hands in the cookie jar?

    Are there no prisons? No workhouses?

    by meatballs on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 10:39:32 AM PST

    •  Endless growth (0+ / 0-)

      is not a sane thing to expect.  

      We do not forgive. We do not forget. The whole world is watching.

      by Tracker on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:59:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This Is A Fundamental Problem (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tracker

        Apparently those same brilliant economists who bemoan the 'lack of growth' fail to understand what that exponential function is trying to tell them.

        I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

        by superscalar on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:35:56 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Walmart, and other large retailers, (0+ / 0-)

      are expanding into other countries, from Europe to China to Central and South America.  If Africa ever gets its politics together enough to join the worldwide economy, they're next.  Close a store here, open a store there - big corporations go where the customers are, or will be.  The fact that they're losing customers here does not and will not mean they won't find customers elsewhere.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:16:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Eventually (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        trumpeter

        They will saturate the global market (if they remain successful) and then, assuming they continue pushing forth their political agenda on a global scale, will experience deflation.

        Attacking your customer base is not a sustainable business strategy.  

        Are there no prisons? No workhouses?

        by meatballs on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:35:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  what comes 1st? the chicken or the egg? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Thinking Fella

    it has always been this way with supply and demand. without demand their is no supply but without supply there is no demand.

    Earth: Mostly harmless ~ The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (revised entry)

    by yawnimawke on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:26:07 AM PST

  •  "Job Creators" are also Job Destroyers (12+ / 0-)

    I wish I could recall who it was, but there was an NPR interview with an economist who refreshingly challenged the use of the term "job creators" to describe the wealthy.  He cogently and simply pointed out that the middle-class doesn't fire people.  Nope.  It's those "job-creators" who eliminated all those jobs.

  •  The 1% are fighting for a bigger slice (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Marjmar, TomP, Treg, Stwriley

    of a shrinking pie.

  •  This is false! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg

    Economic demand is entirely created by a handful of individuals who can already buy anything they want without noticing....

    I know, because I saw it on the telelvision-machine.

    No matter how cynical you become, it's impossible to keep up; no matter how cynical you are, you have no idea...

    by ChristopherMays on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:29:04 AM PST

    •  It really is amazing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Treg, Stwriley

      how quickly and fully the regular folks on the right have bought into the "oh no, we can't tax the job creators" meme. And they're about to have their taxes raised (expiring payroll tax cut) because the GOP won't allow a tiny increase in taxes on the rich as a compromise. Again, this is amazing to me: the non-wealthy right will happily pay higher taxes in order for the Big Bosses and Financial Titans to put more in their own pockets. That right-wing messaging machine is awfully effective.

      On another site I saw a comment in which a relatively educated conservative stated flat-out that she is "happy" to pay a bit more in taxes, so that the job creators and the risk-takers can keep doing their thing and creating jobs. I don't think she gets that her probably 33% tax rate is subsidizing those at the top paying only 15%, most of whom are NOT creating any jobs at all.The brainwashing is just stunning to me. But then again, for conservatives, it's more about being anti-Obama than about having good ideas. As long as Obama suggests cutting working people's taxes, I guess we'll see right-wing voters cheering on the 1%.

  •  don't worry, be happy (4+ / 0-)
    What does lead to more employment is the feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion a virtuous cycle that allows companies to survive and thrive and business owners to hire. An ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than I ever have been or ever will be....And the more we have happy customers with lots of disposable income, the better our businesses will do.

    Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) refusing to have a battle of wits with unarmed people since 1980

    by annieli on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:30:27 AM PST

  •  THE fundamental question! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yawnimawke, TomP, Tracker, Treg
    Why should one piece of that puzzle be valued higher than the other?

    A huge chunk of the mess we are in results from valuing one part of the productive chain (providing the cash) far more than others (providing the idea) which in turns is far more valued thatn others (providing the work).  Because of these values, our labor and contract laws provide much greater leverage and authority to those in some positiong than others.

    The results of that is that the "free market" is not so free because the rules of any bargaining or negotiated are heavily slanted to give some parties large advantages over the others, distorting all market signals.

    In the end, the invisible hand of the market is guided by an even more invisible morally reasoning mind of the body politic.  

    Intelligent, passionate, perceptive people will always disagree, but we should not let that disagreement, however heartfelt, lead us to become deaf to those better angels of our nature.

    by Mindful Nature on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:32:19 AM PST

  •  There used to be a Japanese restaurant (6+ / 0-)

    in Japantown in SF named  'Sanpo'(spel?). The name refered to the 3 equal parts needed to have a successful restaurant. They are a cook, a server, and a customer. If only one is missing...it will fail.

    "The better I know people, the more I like my dog."

    by Thinking Fella on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:32:56 AM PST

  •  Christ on a Crutch! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PSzymeczek

    Holy Hannah, but it's about time SOME uber-rich guy said that!

  •  which is why this is all so perplexing to me (4+ / 0-)

    It doesn't even make selfish sense to pursue the policies they are pursuing. It's completely short-term wise, long-term stupid thinking.

    Is there a killer asteroid coming that only the rich know about?

    •  They don't care about losing customers in this (0+ / 0-)

      country.  They see the whole world as their customers and India and China as their next big playground.  When this country goes down, they will just move somewhere else.

    •  Nope, killer feudalism (0+ / 0-)

      The thing about borders is, they only keep out people, not money or products. The rich will invest in economies emerging out of poverty, take full advantage, and then plunge them back into poverty again. Investments will chase poverty in a never ending circle around the globe.

      They don't care about overall wealth levels in any given country. In fact, they are not concerned about wealth at all. They are concerned about power. If they have some wealth and we have none, they have more power over us than if they have a lot and we have some.

    •  Global Warming ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      offgrid

      I keep wondering if the elites aren't (metaphorically) building a very very small ark for themselves.  It's necessary to keep the GOP base in a frenzied state of AGW denial so they never stop to realize there is no seat reserved  for them.

      There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

      by bernardpliers on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:09:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Shouldn't it be obvious? (5+ / 0-)
    The flaw in their thinking is—what happens when there's no one left to buy their products?

    ...or design their products, build their products, imagine their products, competently use their products, etc.

    This is the same thing I think about when I see massive de-funding of public education. At the end of the day is another .05% boost in the per share stock price during the quarter worth it if you are setting your company up to fail in less than a decade? Is there a secret plan to leave for a base on the Moon as soon as the wheels really start to come off and I just wasn't invited?

    Thanks for the post!

    “To raise the issue is not necessarily an expression of class warfare, as critics’ bromides would have it; it can be an expression of deep concern about the health of our democracy.” — The editorial board of the Austin American-Statesman

    by Marshall Getto on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:36:03 AM PST

    •  Globalization (0+ / 0-)

      They can still make money by selling products made in China to consumers in India.  They no longer depend on the domestic market for all their profits.

    •  The 1% (0+ / 0-)

      don't need us as workers anymore; they have deemed us too expensive. I wonder if they think they don't even need us as consumers? The real market growth is happening in China, India, etc., and what capitalism demands is just that - unceasing growth. If the USA can't provide that, then why, the captains of industry ask themselves, why should we waste one penny on education or health or welfare for masses of Americans? It's not like they do things out of the kindness of their hearts.

  •  I am curious. (0+ / 0-)

    What exactly is being taught in school these days?

    What does lead to more employment is the feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion a virtuous cycle that allows companies to survive and thrive and business owners to hire. An ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than I ever have been or ever will be.

    Is it so obvious that it is not part of a curriculum in economics?

     

    "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." Louis Brandeis

    by wxorknot on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:42:32 AM PST

  •  It's the consumers that made the USA a power (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg

    We are the biggest, most powerful economy in the world, and it's because of a strong middle class created by a pluralistic system of government that balanced all the pieces of the economy. We've spent the last 30 years tearing that balance apart, and going into debt to maintain our consumer-based economy. Now the bill is coming due, and there's going to be hell to pay if we don't do something soon, and I mean soon, to restore the balance.

  •  Large business... (0+ / 0-)

    For the most part, destroy jobs.  They make money by finding efficiencies with smaller labor pools to accomplish the same task.  That's what they do.  Mergers rarely result in hiring.  Small business and entrepreneurs create jobs.  This is because labor is not a cost, but an investment.  And no real business activity occurs without customers.  (I say 'real' business because one can still make money by charging 'rent' on real business transactions, but that is not real business).

    The 'Free Market' will decide. It will decide that the United States cannot consume 25% of the world's resources and the upper 1% cannot control 50% of the wealth.

    by RichM on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:44:59 AM PST

  •  *barf* (0+ / 0-)
    An ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than I ever have been or ever will be.

    Oh lord kos... you're bolding such political correct false modesty as this?  I am 99.9% sure that this guy does not even believe this.  

    Next you'll be telling me that he truly believes that "the customer is always right"-- another politically correct pander to the consumer.  Nobody believes that in a literal sense.  They say such things to show that they value their customers.  

    Daily Kos wouldn't exist without me. But Daily Kos also wouldn't exist without you. Why should one piece of that puzzle be valued higher than the other?

    Glad to hear you think I have equal value to the site as yourself.  Can I have my equal share of the site's profits now? ;-)

    Seriously, take a bow.  You have built a nice site here through your own efforts, not mine.  I come here and put in my 2 cents when I feel like it.  There is nothing remotely equal about the value of our respective contributions.

    •  Because DKos is such a terribly unique idea (0+ / 0-)

      that if Kos hadn't come up with it, no one else would have 30 seconds later...

      Talk about barf. Economic success is mostly composed of holes created by the economic system that can be filled by any one of a certain fraction of the population with a particular (common) history.

      If Steve Jobs had been still-born, there would have been Orange computers instead of Apple computers. Same shit, different variation. If Henry Ford had had been hit by a train at 7, Jones car company would exist in dynamic tension with GM and Toyota.

      None of us create "great value". Sure -- you can't pick just anybody, but there's a great excess of folks capable of producing and inventing over the demand for their production and invention.

      Talk about politically correct nonsense -- this concept that some folks are "oh so special" with a particular genius that could never be replaced is just a variation on "You're special in Jesus's eyes". Gag -- we're basically interchangeable monkeys. Politically correct nonsense indeed --- that idea is as mythological as Zeus, Moses and that black cats are unlucky.

      The Queen Bee in a hive isn't "special" -- she's exactly like her worker sisters, except she was randomly chosen to fill the role. She's special while she's fulfilling that role -- a developed worker can't be turned into a queen -- but that's all just accidents of history. She doesn't "create value" in some unique sense -- she's an output of the system.

      •  Nonsense. (0+ / 0-)
        Because DKos is such a terribly unique idea that if Kos hadn't come up with it, no one else would have 30 seconds later...

        Irrelevant, even if true.  That other individual would have still had to put in the effort that kos has had to do, or it never would have turned into a business capable of hiring people.  In most cases, the value is created by effort, not particular, irreplacable genius.  

        Even if the genius of Jobs is myth, or he was in the right place at the right time or whatever, the effort was there.  The Mac didn't just appear out of thin air because there was an unfulfilled demand for it.  If products just appeared automatically because there is consumer demand for them, where is the $15,000 electric car with a 1000 mile range?

        And speak for yourself as far as the interchangeable monkeys bit ;-)

        •  What special effort? (0+ / 0-)

          I know plenty of people who put in "the effort".

          I know plenty of people who are just as smart.

          I even know plenty of people who overlap those two categories -- the product comes out of the evolution of the technology.

          Not just out of consumer demand -- but out of the evolution of ideas across many people, many times. The winners are just lottery winners -- but lottery winners of folks who happened to be in the game.

          The Mac appeared out of thin air because there was demand there -- and because the technology had been already developed -- and because the design elements were already decades old. It was inevitable that whoever happened to trip over the combination in first and belonged to the 100s of thousands of people with the proper background would become a superstar.

          You're interchangeable with millions of other monkeys with almost identical backgrounds to you. Your opinions, your thoughts, your actions are stereotyped --- as are mine. Are your ideas at all original? I've heard them a thousand times --- and mine are just as banal.

          Shit, take even an Einstein --- every idea he had was prefigured in the preceding 20 years. If he had eaten a bad weinerschnitzel in 1903, at most relativity, brownian motion, and his black body work would have been delayed by a year or two, and probably have been published by 4 authors rather than one.

          What difference would that have made? None, as far as I can see, other than that picture with his tongue sticking out would not have been invented. That's the most extreme case of individual genius --- and yet it's obviously just a hole waiting for a body or more to fill.

          The effort is common -- the genius is common -- everything is common. The opportunity matters more than the person.

          Find round hole. Place round peg. Some folks want to yell and scream about the greatness of the peg!

          •  It's hard to argue with a nihilist. (0+ / 0-)

            Shoot, let's apply this philosophy consistently.   I suppose we should say that King or Gandhi also made no difference, because we can assume that someone equal would have come along and filled the demand of leader of the oppressed?  Lincoln, a clone, a stereotype obviously... things would have turned out essentially the same with any old stiff; Gettysburg address, heard it a thousand times before!   Rembrandt, Shakespeare, just interchangeable monkeys, right?

            •  Don't use big words. (0+ / 0-)

              You don't seem to know what they mean. Nothing I've said is "nihilist" at all, unless you're using it as a convenient swear word.

              What I'm saying is that you have to do a full analysis of the detailed events and the social processes that evolved over time to understand things -- that there are no individuals separate from their social context.

              That's not so hard -- it's not nihilist, it just dispenses with magical fairies living in folks heads that get "credit" or "blame". It's materialist rather than idealist -- that's true. But materialism isn't nihilism.

              We have common sense about things -- unfortunately, the world doesn't work according to our common sense.

              •  I looked up nihilist in the dictionary. (0+ / 0-)

                It said "someone who thinks that everything is common, all is banal, and we are all just interchangeable monkeys."

                Ok, not quite, but it did say "a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless."  Which is more or less what it meant to me before I looked it up.  

                Admittedly, it does not mean "someone who believes that you have to do a full analysis of the detailed events and the social processes that evolved over time to understand things"... But of course you only said that just now, and besides, anyone who does a "full analysis" of the life of Einstein and can conclude that he accomplished nothing more meaningful than his picture with his tongue sticking out seems to fit the dictionary definition of a nihilist quite nicely.  Such a person has shown a rejection of the value of persistence, work, thought, scholarship, and discovery, all "traditional values", are they not?  And if Einstein's work was redundant and, as the interchangeable monkey that he was, he made no impact more important than having his picture taken, as you claim, then that's pretty much the same as saying his existence was useless, is it not?

  •  and as usual... (0+ / 0-)

    "dynamic and growing capitalist" economies have to go away, as they are based on an absurd and unsustainable model of endless growth and resource extraction.  "Consumers" is a frame that needs to die.

  •  I work for a 1%-er (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg, EclecticCrafter, offgrid

    ...and as part of my on-boarding process at a new company, I had lunch with the CEO, a self described 1%-er.  

    He laughed at the idea that tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs.  He didn't create MY JOB because he was getting a tax break.  He created MY JOB because other companies are buying his products and services.

    Purchasing is the only true job creator.  A wealthy business owner isn't going to create jobs out of the goodness of their heart (and they shouldn't be expected to).

  •  Heh yes I keep thinking about this (0+ / 0-)

    And it always comes back to what Elizabeth Warren said. Without people to buy things and build things, the 1% is utterly meaningless. Their pride is built upon ... the backs of the 99. Highways, street lights, food, buildings to work and live in, the concept of money, etc etc etc. With a population as small as the 1% there is nobody to make these things happen.

    The fact is, without the 99%, the 1% would just be some cavemen beating each-other over their heads just to prove they are the biggest baddest monkey.

    So what they must be actually working towards is pure, unadulterated slavery for the 99%. Nothing else makes any sense.

  •  Kos, I have the answer to your question. (0+ / 0-)
    what happens when there's no one left to buy their products?

    The answer is; the 1% no longer relies on honest business transactions with consumers to make their money. Their income source is now a combination of regressive taxation, privatization of public resources, lucrative no-bid government contracts, and essentially stealing investment money through dishonest transactions and ridiculous bonuses and salaries.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:50:24 AM PST

  •  Thanks to our horrible trade agreements (0+ / 0-)

    mostagreements most large companies now produce their wares in countries with the cheapest labor and least regulation. Then sell their wares globally and hold most of their money offshore. They rely less and less on American consumers for their profits. Except in the case of the megastores who push theirforeign made cheap crap on us and sadly they make their biggest profit in bad economic times due to the affordability of said foreign made cheap crap. The days of an adequately paid working class that can afford to buy goods made in America have long been undermined by both parties for decades and sadly I can't see it ever returning, especially when most companies have adapted to turning huge profits while fucking their labor.

  •  It's not just Republicans (0+ / 0-)

    Many "Democrats" are huge free traders and the President just signed several terrible Free Trade agreements, including one with a country were labor leaders are routinely murdered.

    Lovely.

    I can't support Free Traders.  Sadly, that includes my own Bill Nelson (D-FL).

    No nation can be great if it allows its elites to loot with impunity and prosecutes its whistleblowers. Geithner is destroying the things that made America great. -- Bill Black, white-collar criminologist & a former senior financial regulator

    by jboxman on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:52:09 AM PST

  •  What happens is (0+ / 0-)

    that they mandate that you buy whatever it is their selling. One of the problems I see is that the 'financial industry' does not have a product other then extortion and gambling, including the insurance industry. All the ordinary people are good for to them, is another ante in their Ponzi scheme and another round of looting our treasury and  government. Workers are just a profit loss to them. The Casino's customers the investors, the ownership society is the only economy they recognize and it has started cannibalizing itself as the turnips are really bloodless at this point. That's what happens when the vampire squid is allowed to suck us all dry.    

  •  Hey Look-- USA Became Superpower (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, Treg, MadMs

    AFTER we created a large middle class.

    Middle class is not only job creators, they're our national security.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:54:39 AM PST

  •  Exactly, consumers are the job creators... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, Treg

    consumer demand forces companies to create jobs to keep up.

    “I trust in God, but God wants to see us help ourselves by putting people back to work.” President Obama 11/2/11

    by BarackStarObama on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:56:54 AM PST

  •  Want more entrepreneurs? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg, mideedah

    Then have universal health care.  (How many people stay in bad jobs or won't go into business on their own because of health insurance?)

    Support education.

    Invest in our people.

    Class and social mobility is much greater in Europe than it is here.  The American Dream has been killed by the so-called "job creators" who merely get rich from shuffling money and getting bailed out when they lose.

    Absolutely, a productive and prosperous middle class is the engine of entrepreneurship, not the wealth-hoarding aristocracy.

    Civil marriage is a civil right.

    by UU VIEW on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 11:59:55 AM PST

  •  Dead on analysis (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg

    I wrote a diary on this same subject awhile back - strangling the middle class, undermining their economic security (and therefore their buying power) ultimately kills consumer demand. Rich people don't hand out jobs like Mardis Gras beads just cause they can. They need customers to demand goods and services.

    "Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." - Napoleon Bonaparte (attributed)

    by Jaxpagan on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:00:24 PM PST

  •  Parasitoid and The puzzle (0+ / 0-)

    When the "job creators" remove themselves from the big picture, they essentially become parasites engaged in an aparasitoid relationship where the host is destroyed.

    But you already knew that...why don't they?

    Well, I been around the world, and I've been in the Washington Zoo. And in all my travels, as the facts unravel, I've found this to be true.... ...they don't give a f^ck about anybody else

    by Zwoof on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:01:48 PM PST

  •  What happens when there's no one left to buy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mideedah

    their products is what they've been working for for decades: the new age of slavery/feudalism. The 1 percent have no problem with lack of customers in any of the world's banana republics. Once you've achieved a population of serfs, you go for the export markets with your huge resource of cheap labor while you enjoy your life as a "citizen of the world". The Right's hatred of the productive segment of society goes much deeper than mere economic ideology.

    Conservatism explained: Carrots for the rich and the corporate. Sticks for the workers and the poor. It really is that simple.

    by DaveW on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:02:26 PM PST

  •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jonathan Hoag

    There’s always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby

    by bernardpliers on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:03:08 PM PST

  •  Technology Is A Two Edged Sword (0+ / 0-)

    But really, how successful would've Steve Jobs been had no one bought his computers and iPods?

    1.) 'Productivity' is just another word for doing more work with fewer employees.

    2.) Apple Computer has probably, by several orders of magnitude, destroyed more jobs than it has ever created.

    I won't be coming home tonight, my generation will put it right - Genesis 9:3

    by superscalar on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:04:03 PM PST

  •  The way CEOs and other top executives are (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mideedah

    compensated by large corporations today also has perverted our economy. Their compensation levels are obscene because they bear little or no relation to their performance or the success of the corporation under their leadership. In fact, these 1%ers stand to make the most money by essentially looting their company, taking a massive separation payout, and then moving on to the next victim.

  •  Exactly! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Treg, mideedah

    This is exactly what I've been saying for years. Instead of focusing on the "job creators", we need to focus on the job SUSTAINERS, the middle class. Nobody is better off if I hire 1000 people but can't afford to pay them a decent wage.

  •  Because the super-rich investors and elite they (0+ / 0-)

    represent have figured out how to rig the tax system, international investment system, etc. in such a way that they will get richer investing in things like debt or in complicated financial instruments than they will in bricks and mortar or people.

    The super-duper billionaires don't have allegiance to one country.  They don't "live" in only one country.  Their lifestyles and their wealth and their futures reside nowhere, propped up and maintained through intertwining networks of laws, regulations, investment instruments, tax havens, shelters, etc.  

    Nor do they have to make anything to maintain their enormously fabulous wealth.  A house in the Hamptons or an apartment in Paris or an estate in Paraguay or fine artwork or a private jet or.... all of them are acquired as part of the ueber-wealthy's portfolios of investments supported by the manipulation of tax code and finance law.  And the super rich don't have to set up a single factory or hire a single worker to keep that portfolio going after a certain point of wealth is hit.  After a certain point, it's all about leveraging one's massive wealth into the creation of more wealth through tax code and finance law.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 12:45:39 PM PST

    •  Many of the rich were middle class once, and (0+ / 0-)

      tey worked hard for what they have. I don't think you can classify all of the rich in one big group, either. Many of those super rich also support the arts, museums, education, programs that beneft the poor.

      Yes we need to reform the tax code both for personal taxes and for corporate taxes. The Bush tax cuts should expire for all not just the 1%.

  •  The logic is amusing. (0+ / 0-)

    Businesses wouldn't exist without customers. Customers wouldn't have anything to buy if there wasn't someone creating a business. Customers must have money to buy stuff from businesses. Businesses must give up their money because... this is where I get lost.

  •  Job Creators? (0+ / 0-)

    If the rich are job creators, they are doing a lousy job!

    They DID create jobs, but they are all in China and India!

    Creating jobs would mean they would have to SPEND MONEY, but that would mean they might not make the Forbes 400!

    Soon, those job creators will have to hire an army to protect themselves against all the unemployed.

    Help! The GOP is NUTS (& the Dems need some!)

    by Tuba Les on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:13:24 PM PST

  •  Sometimes, people need to be smacked (0+ / 0-)

    in the face by obvious.  Markos, this is obvious in a nutshell.  For business to succeed there MUST be a tit for tat, a dis for dat.  The last paragraph of the article says it all:  "Republicans are hell-bent on destroying the middle class in pursuit of greater wealth for the one percent. The flaw in their thinking is—what happens when there's no one left to buy their products?"

    Of course, the Republicans gain traction for their mind-numbingly asinine policy choices by insisting to those who don't care to critically think through the garbage they're being tossed that those same asinine policy choices are actually meant to strengthen the middle class.  You know: black is white, up is down, my success is your success even if I refuse to share the wealth.

  •  Ya don't say... (0+ / 0-)

    ...there maybe one or two nutcases who might not understand the power of $8 trillion in consumer spending, but do you seriously dismisses demand?

    A quant and damned proud of it.

    by Cera on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:32:23 PM PST

  •  Demand creates jobs!!!!!! (0+ / 0-)

    There are two philosophies on how to create demand:

    1. CONservatives:  Give the money to 1% of the population

    2. Progressives: Give the money to 99% of the population

    Simplistic yes but that is what all this boils down to!

    Result of No. 1: I'm Bill Gates and Eric Cantor calls and says we've given you a 10 million dollar tax savings.

    Result of No. 2: The middleclass has the money to buy the 80 million copies of my new windows program at $100 a piece which generates 8,000,000,000 billion dollars in sales increases the price of my stock and nets me something like 100,000,000  after taxes and expenses.

    Just to illustrate making it simple enough for even Gingrinch to understand!

  •  I've been saying it months on end (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mideedah

    I run a small business.  I am an employer.  I hire (and fire) people.  But I am not a job creator.  I've never created a job in my life.  My customers are the job creators.  When they patronize my business, I hire people to serve them.  When they can't afford to, I lay people off.  If the government gives me a tax break, I put it my pocket.  If the government gives my customers a tax break, they can buy more of my services, which makes me hire people.

  •  Yep (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mideedah

    we need more people with more money, not less people with a shit ton of money.

    This is so logical, and I think more and more Americans are getting it.  That's why Frank Luntz has his undies all in a bundle.

    "Mediocrity cannot know excellence." -- Sherlock Holmes

    by La Gitane on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 02:09:30 PM PST

  •  as a small businessperson , I can tell you (0+ / 0-)

    you hit it ON THE NOSIE!

  •  Democracy depends on a strong middle class (0+ / 0-)
  •  I woud liek al hte blame game to stop and (0+ / 0-)

    for all to talk about shared sacorifice.

  •  The forgotten symbiocy. (0+ / 0-)

    The greedy have forgotten that without their consumer base, there is no revenue.
    If the middle class disappears, the rich will have no one to buy their products except themselves and as a business owner, I have dealt with some pretty cheap 'rich' people.

    We are the foundation of the money generation. Businesses can open up and new ideas can go to market but without people with money to buy, they are doomed to fail or at best be mediocre in results.

    I say, let the rich have their money. We will take on a new economy in which they cannot play.

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