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American Taliban leader Rick Santorum (Bryan Snyder/Reuters)
BuzzFeed notes that conservative Catholics are perhaps beginning to coalesce around Rick Santorum. Or, at least, conservative Catholic leaders would like to see that happen:
Here's the email to what I'm told is a list of more than 500,000 conservative Catholics:
[...] Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul and Mitt Romney each have qualities we can admire. But Rick Santorum has always been a candidate Catholics could trust.

No candidate is perfect, and his record isn't without blemish. But let’s be honest. Senators hate talking about life and marriage, but Rick Santorum put them on the record and advanced our issues. He is the only Senator ever to force a vote on a federal marriage amendment and he relentlessly pushed for a ban on the gruesome practice of partial-birth abortion. And he understands that the renewal of the family is the only way we will truly rebuild our economy and our culture. [...]

What do you think: Should we support Rick Santorum?

As difficult as it is to believe, it seems social conservatives really are going with Santorum as their next Not-Mitt. Even the last not-Mitt, a conservative Catholic himself, is on board:

Newt Gingrich, who finished fourth in the Iowa caucuses, said Wednesday he can "absolutely" see himself teaming up with Rick Santorum.

"Of course," Gingrich told conservative Laura Ingraham on her radio show. "Rick and I have a 20-year friendship. We were both rebels, we both came into this business as reformers. ... We'll both stay in the race for a while, we'll see how our personalities wear and how our policies and ideas wear."

From a social perspective, Rick Santorum is about as hard-right as you can get. He hates all the right things, and hates them passionately, and has no inconvenient past record of appearing "moderate" on anything.

I'm torn between wanting him to stay in the race as long as possible, thus forcing Romney to continue his kowtowing to the hard-hard-right, or wanting him to just go away quickly so that conservatives can get on with trying to draft a new, less ridiculous version.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Not torn at all (23+ / 0-)

    Let him stay and keep pushing Romney further right. Win Win and then a big dose of lose.

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:03:05 PM PST

  •  I don't know who this guy is..... (25+ / 0-)

    I guess I will just have to Google his name.

    I wonder if he is a famous inventor or something?

    "I want us to live up to her expectations. I want our democracy to be as good as she (Christina Taylor-Greene) imagined it." President Obama

    by guavaboy on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:05:41 PM PST

  •  And his wife… (5+ / 0-)

    …employed the gruesome practice of partial-birth abortion to save her own life.

    Teh stoopidTM, it hurts. Buy smart, union-printed, USA-made, signs, stickers, swag for everyone: DemSign.com. Get your We are the 99% Yard Sign.

    by DemSign on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:06:09 PM PST

    •  Yes, she did (5+ / 0-)

      The Santorums are the worst kind of hypocrites and liars.  I've read some accounts of this incident and this article is well worth the time it takes to read it:

      http://oursilverribbon.org/...

      Excerpt: In October, 1996, his wife Karen had a second trimester abortion. They don’t like to describe it that way. In his 2004 interview with Terry Gross, Santorum characterizes the fetus, who must be treated as an autonomous person, as a practically a gunslinging threat, whom the mother must murder in self-defense. Karen has had to justify her decision to save her own life by explaining that if she died her other children would have lost a mother. continued...

      The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:39:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  See below (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gramofsam1, msmacgyver

        Assholes, but not hypocrits.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:44:06 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Tell it to The Vatican (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe wobblie

        their official position is that the woman can't be saved if the fetus cannot be saved.  The argument that other children will be left motherless does not sway them.  I'd bet the Santorums went priest shopping to get permssion for the 2nd trimester abortion.  

        •  Actually you are wrong on this (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vidanto, msmacgyver, Thinking Fella, kait

          Perwikipedia

          The principle of double effect is frequently cited in relation to abortion. A doctor who believes abortion is always morally wrong may nevertheless remove the uterus or fallopian tubes of a pregnant woman, knowing the procedure will cause the death of the embryo or fetus, in cases in which the woman is certain to die without the procedure (examples cited include aggressive uterinecancer and ectopic pregnancy). In these cases, the intended effect is to save the woman's life, not to terminate the pregnancy, and the death of the embryo or fetus is foreseen as a side effect, not intended even as a means to another end, an evil means to a good end. Thus chemotherapy or removal of a cancerous organ does not abort the fetus in order to cure the cancer, but instead it cures the cancer while also having the foreseen indirect result of aborting the embryo or fetus.

          There is a ton of logical gamesmanship (as is typical in Catholic Law), but basically it boils down to this...Catholics can get an abortion if 1) the fetus will die in any case, 2) the mother will die without it, and 3) there is some kind of dodge used to make it not simply removing the fetus.

          In the Santorums case, the dodge was doing induced labor, which, in theory, does not directly kill the fetus (though it was not viable, it died on its own).

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:44:09 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think if you read the excerpt I posted (0+ / 0-)

            in a reply to you, they did not permit induced labor.  

            The view from a different angle, which tends to support my own belief that they both orchestrated the event to fit their agendas:

            http://www.post-gazette.com/...

            At the time of his family's crisis, Rick Santorum was, by coincidence, leading the fight against partial-birth abortion on the Senate floor.

            "There is another way. We know, because we chose it," Karen Santorum writes. "It was to deliver you and allow you to die a natural and peaceful death in the loving arms of your parents.

            "Accepting partial-birth abortion as our only alternative to a difficult birth or a potentially disabled infant is to thwart two of our strongest human needs: those of love and memory.

            "Giving life and caring for a sick infant - for however brief a period - allows us to express these uniquely human needs."

            The bizarre events after the baby's death have been reported many times.

            It's hard to know if these two people are of sound mind.

            The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going. George Carlin

            by msmacgyver on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:20:36 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Excerpt referred to: (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kait
            “The cramps were labor, and she was going to get into more active labor,” Santorum said. “Karen said, `We’re not inducing labor, that’s an abortion. No way. That isn’t going to happen. I don’t care what happens.’ ”

            As her fever subsided, Karen – a former neonatal intensive-care nurse – asked for something to stop the labor. Her doctors refused, Santorum recalled, citing malpractice concerns.

            Santorum said her labor proceeded without having to induce an abortion.


            The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going. George Carlin

            by msmacgyver on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:23:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  There must be quite a few astonished nurses out (0+ / 0-)

              there practicing.  Aside from the fact that this should have been a private matter between this woman, her physician(s), and whomever else she chose to include  AND

              Aside from the matter that we have actual enormous problems in the country on which we need to work, like jobs, infrastructure, poverty,  the ever-present war or potential for war, and the environment, to name a few:

              The induction of labor occurs every single day in every hospital with an OB unit, and it occurs for a variety of medical reasons, from fetal distress, which is an attempt to save a baby, to maternal distress, which can be life-threatening to the mother, to failure of labor to progress, and even to the particularly foolish (IMO) practice of doing so for convenience--to select a time and date which suits the mother, parents, a/o obstetrician.

              The induction of labor is certainly not an abortion, not even in this case. It would have simply accelerated the process of delivery.

              And drugs given to stop labor?  Sometimes they are successful, and many times they are not.  These are not drugs that "prevent abortion." They are simply drugs which attempt to stop the progression of labor, again for medical , not religious reasons.

              AGGHHH

              Here's a thought. By now there must be enough scientific literature for an encyclopedia which demonstrates that decreasing poverty also decreases materal and infant morbidity and mortality, along with a host of other ills, from malnutrition to enhanced learning abilities, to decreased crime rates.  Want to lower abortion rates?  Trade the war on drugs for the war on poverty. And fits in perfectly with Catholic social justice teaching.

              What's that you say?  Crickets? I thought so. I was thinking more like God damn it.  (end of rant, apologies to Hunter).

    •  However loathsome Santorum is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Melanie in IA, msmacgyver

      The rumors of his wife recieving a partial birth abortion are merely rumors.

      What is known, by their own accounts, is that they allowed doctors to 1) give his wife drugs to speed delivery 20) after her 2nd trimester fetus was clearly going to die and 3) his wife was clearly in danger of dying herself.

      As Santorum himself said, if it was a choice of both dying, or only the fetus...it was an easy choice.

      Critically, this view is totally in line with the Catholic doctrine Santorum follows.  Namely, no abortion for any reason except when both mother and fetus will die, and the removal of the fetus will save the mother.

      This also explains why Santorum opposes many of the "health of mother" exceptions.  Namely, he is not willing to accept merely "health" as a reason, but rather that failure to end to pregnancy will result in the death of both the mother and fetus.

      So...whatever may be said...it appears that Santorum is not hypocrit about his views on abortion.  Rather, Santorum is a radical, asshole who wants to impose his extremely conservative catholoc view on others.

      Nothing I am saying makes Santorum right but, as best I can tell, he is honest in his radical conservative extremism.

      In the end, that just makes him an honest, evil, ratfucker...but not a hypocrit.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:43:06 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  sorry, but that's a distinction without a differen (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver, kait

        ce

        Je regretez mon mariage

        by Mark B on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:54:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Perhaps, (0+ / 0-)

          but the point is that even Santorum will allow for abortion in which the 'life' of the mother and fetus are in jeopardy.  It is precisely this situation that Santorum's wife faced.

          Its both Catholic doctrine  and his Santorum's position.

          To claim otherwise is factully wrong.

          "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

          by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:57:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then why was Sr. Margaret McBride (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joe wobblie

            excommunicated for allowing exactly the same thing?

            •  The short version (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kait

              is that the asshole Bishop refused to believe the doctors when they said the woman would almost certainly die without an abortion.  The Bishop thought they were doing 'end-runs' around the rule to justify what they were doing...in addition, the hospital didn't do any of the standard approved tricksies (removing the uterus or other masking procedures).

              Critically, in 2010 Margaret McBride was fully reinstated in the church, and continues working at that hospital.

              Basically, this was a stupid mistake by the Phoenix Bishop, that was quietly fixed a few years later.

              Here's the follow-up

              Mercy nun at hospital that allowed abortion 'no longer excommunicated'

              PHOENIX (CNS) -- A Mercy sister who was automatically excommunicated because of her role on the ethics committee that allowed an abortion to be performed at a Catholic hospital in Phoenix in 2009 is back in good standing in the Catholic Church. In May 2010, officials at St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center publicly acknowledged that an abortion had occurred at the hospital in late 2009. Officials said the woman was 11 weeks pregnant and suffered from pulmonary hypertension, a condition that the hospital said carried a near-certain risk of death for the mother if the pregnancy continued. It also was revealed at the time that Mercy Sister Margaret McBride had incurred automatic excommunication because of her role on the ethics committee that sanctioned the abortion. On Dec. 21, 2010, Phoenix Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted announced that the hospital could no longer identify itself as a Catholic hospital. In a Dec. 8 statement, the hospital said Sister Margaret has since "met the requirements for reinstatement with the church and she is no longer excommunicated. She continues to be a member in good standing with the Sisters of Mercy and is a valued member of the St. Joseph's executive team." The statement, emailed to Catholic News Service in response to a query about her status, provided no more details and the hospital had no further comment. Sister Margaret is currently the medical center's vice president for organizational outreach. Last year when Bishop Olmsted issued his decree revoking the 116-year-old hospital's affiliation with the Catholic Church, he wrote that he could not verify that the hospital provided health care consistent with "authentic Catholic moral teaching." "It became clear that, in their decision to abort, the equal dignity of mother and her baby were not both upheld," he said. The baby "was directly killed," which is a violation of the church's ethical and religious directives.

              That last bit is what is critical...namely the hospital did a simple abortion rather than an Catholic Law approved work-around

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:55:00 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  When has he clearly stated that he supports (0+ / 0-)

            abortion in cases when the mother and child will die otherwise?

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:06:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can't find one that actually says life of mother (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kait

              rather he always seems to say "even in cases of rape or incest" but not go on.

              That said, I am finding numerous sites that review abortion positions that uniformly say he excepts the life of the mother argument (when fetus will die too).

              I'm sure I could find it, but at the moment I have to make dinner.

              To be clear...none of what I am saying is meant to defend Santorum, he's a radical Catholic extremist rat-fucker.

              "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

              by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:14:06 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  I don't agree and although I'm not (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Empty Vessel

        in the medical field, nor am I an attorney, this excerpt from the linked article suggests that all of the decisions which were made were tailored to fit their very strict "death of mother and baby" scenario:

        Santorum agreed to start his wife on intravenous antibiotics “to buy her some time,” he said.

        The antibiotics brought Karen’s fever down. The doctor suggested a drug to accelerate her labor.

        “The cramps were labor, and she was going to get into more active labor,” Santorum said. “Karen said, `We’re not inducing labor, that’s an abortion. No way. That isn’t going to happen. I don’t care what happens.’ ”

        As her fever subsided, Karen – a former neonatal intensive-care nurse – asked for something to stop the labor. Her doctors refused, Santorum recalled, citing malpractice concerns.

        Santorum said her labor proceeded without having to induce an abortion.

        Karen, a soft-spoken red-haired 37-year-old, said that “ultimately” she would have agreed to intervention for the sake of her other children.

        “If the physician came to me and said if we don’t deliver your baby in one hour you will be dead, yeah, I would have to do it,” she said. “But for me, it was at the very end. I would never make a decision like that until all other means had been thoroughly exhausted.”

        The fetus was delivered at 20 weeks, at least a month shy of what most doctors consider viability.


        The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going. George Carlin

        by msmacgyver on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:23:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Since we work to be a "reality based community", (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Empty Vessel

      and since this issue is about political framing, in this case in regards to the Santorums, I hope that this is not an OT remark.

      There is no such thing as a partial birth abortion. In political terms, it is more accurate to call it an untruthful abortion slogan, but this is a medical procedure. It is properly called an intact dilation and extraction. It was performed very very rarely during the late second trimester or early third trimester. Exact dates vary as to "late" second trimester, ranging between 22 and 27 seeks as a starting point.  The medical reasons are exceptionally serious and most often involve a fetus which would have defects incompatible with life.  These procedures also proved to be incompatible with Dr. Tiller's life, as a provider.

      Other factors once were part of the discussion, such as test results which were not available until after 22 weeks (still possible, mostly due to lack of access to care), geographic availability of services, cost, as well as poverty, teen pregnancy, and lack of knowledge about pregnancy dates and trimesters. These are now illegal abortions, or medically speaking, often septic abortions. They are often life threatening to the woman, since they are not medically supervised.  

  •  If he actually gets a funding bump out of Iowa... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, vidanto

    ...FULL SPEED AHEAD, Rick!

    Occupy Wall Street AND K Street!!!!

    by Egalitare on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:06:58 PM PST

  •  Santorum will only get the votes (12+ / 0-)

    of the most staunchly conservative republican catholics, and more for the fact that he is republican.  But, what the catholics, particularly the old skool one's who embrace papal infallibility, will have to have is a strong case of cognitive dissonance as the Pope has, and not just the current pope, emphasized that as catholics, they are compelled to fight for social and economic justice and that governments around the world should be moving towards righting wrongs against oppressed people.  That being said, Santorum is out of sync with the Pope's call to economic and social justice, including universal health care.  The only topics where Santorum and the papacy see eye to eye are the "sex" issues:  birth control, abortion, homosexuality. Even there, though, Santorum is out of touch with mainstream catholics and the religious left.

    In today's republican party, you can't be republican and catholic/christian:  their philosophies are the antithesis of one another.  You have to pick one.

    "Anything that diminishes the humanity of anybody, seems to me, to be violently opposed to the essence of the Christ figure that I understand in the New Testament." - Bishop John Shelby Spong

    by TigerMom on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:14:28 PM PST

    •  And remember... (10+ / 0-)

      Moderate to progressive Catholics are far larger than hide bound conservative ones. Anecdotally speaking, the majority of Catholics I know (both practicing, recovering, and somewhere in between) find the republican party to be repellant. I, as a Catholic, ceratinly do, although my wording would be more pungent.

      TigerMom has it right. Santorum will only make headway with conservative, Opus Dei freaks.

      "Don't you need a sig line on those sites you go to?"

      by clananderson on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:25:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  'Abortion doctors should be prosecuted' - Santorum (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      historys mysteries, TigerMom

      I assume, as the devout catholic he claims to be, he also believes that prison executioners should be prosecuted as well. Bueller...Bueller...

      •  No, because Santorum (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CSPAN Junkie

        fully supports living adult abortions.

        Right to life my arse.  Fucking hypocrite.

        "Anything that diminishes the humanity of anybody, seems to me, to be violently opposed to the essence of the Christ figure that I understand in the New Testament." - Bishop John Shelby Spong

        by TigerMom on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:58:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  I hope that you and far more intelligent minds (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      than mine, are correct. But I worry.  Cognitive dissonance translates to blah blah blah for many of these right wing Catholics, and the Pope and his henchmen are far more vocal about that one single issue, abortion, than their tepid calls for economic justice. Abortion actually fits into their warped sense of social justice, and if we judge by how they treat their own who molest children, or LGBTQs, or even women, it is indeed warped when it is written or spoken about. Remember, these socially just people would rather pull social services than comply with our laws, despite the fact that (I do not understand why) we will PAY them great gobs of money to simply follow our laws and stay. And  I have no idea what per percentage of voters are single issue voters, but they are out there.  I'm only    hoping their single issue this time might be a useful one, like employment, say.

      The other problem is that I'm not sure that older Catholics (and I am pretty damn old myself) understand that no, fundies and Catholics are not BFF, not even over this single issue. I would use the word tool, but like cognitive dissonance, that word doesn't register with them either. I don't think many of them believe that once their usefulness is over, Catholics go right back to being hell-bound people led by the anti-Christ.

      So my nightmare scenario is that these two groups lockstep together, and then does the Frothy have a shot? We know that the right wing and the fundies have a police like enforcement of staying on message and not tolerating dissent among their voters. Some old Catholics are quite used to, and maybe even reassured by this kind of authoritarianism. My hope is that for every old school Catholic, there is at least one who goes the opposite route, having been alienated and infuriated by the hierarchy.

  •  Opus Dei and the new Vatican Alliance (11+ / 0-)
    CHRIS MATTHEWS: A lot of people I know are happily married for the second time, sometimes the third time.In fact, I bumped into an old friend of mine the other day. He`s on his fourth. I`m not here to judge. I`m not a minister. I`m not a man of the cloth. In fact, I don`t really judge people myself on that. I think people should seek happiness on Earth in a reasonable way and in a moral way.OK. Now, Newt Gingrich, three times married, Opus Dei, right-wing
    Catholic, is he OK with you? Are you OK with him?
    Opus Dei, Latin for "work of God," has, according to media reports, at least 3,000 members in the United States but its influence, critics say, has been more substantial than its numbers would indicate. In 2002, an Opus Dei priest, the Rev. C. John McCloskey III, former director of the Catholic Information Center, converted U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism. Brown­back's conversion was shepherded by U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), a conservative Catholic and Opus Dei booster. Long the scourge of progressive Catholics, Opus Dei, with an estimated 80,000 members worldwide, has enjoyed a close relationship with the church's conservative hierarchy, serving, as one writer put it in the mid 1980s, as a "holy mafia" to promote far-right views on "culture war" issues...For many years, Opus Dei remained secretive and mysterious. Rumors swirled that some members engaged in strange rituals, such as "mortification of the flesh" by wearing a cilice, a small, spiked chain worn around the thigh that pricks the skin. The group was accused of targeting impressionable college students and restricting their access to family members. Some critics labeled Opus Dei a cult. Although these charges frequently resurface, it's the group's ties to reactionary politics and ultra-orthodox forms of Catholicism that generate most interest these days. Under the conservative papacy of John Paul II and his successor, Benedict XVI, Opus Dei is seen as an increasingly powerful organization dedicated to fending off liberalism in the church and advancing a hard-right political agenda.

    Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) "Sciant terra viam monstrare."

    by annieli on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:16:25 PM PST

  •  I can't see this happening (4+ / 0-)

    "or wanting him to just go away quickly so that conservatives can get on with trying to draft a new, less ridiculous version."

    The teabaggers need a crushing a defeat at the polls to realize just how far out the mainstream they are...and Santorum is just the man to do that for them.

    Don't get me wrong, this defeat won't change their minds...just maybe, with luck, drive them into isolated pockets where they isolate themselves as they wait for the apocalypse.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:19:06 PM PST

  •  no, no, no, we need him, let Mitt spend his (6+ / 0-)

    millions and make more of a fool byy pandering to the wingnuts, this is getting interesting!!

    "Just once, why can't one of our poorly considered quick fixes work?" -The Onion

    by expatinmex on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:19:31 PM PST

  •  They must be anti Jeusus Catholics (7+ / 0-)

    They must be Catholics who don't believe in Jesus since Santorum is completely against the poor or helping them in any way. Of course the same can be said for all the GOP.

  •  I think we should all (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mungley, kait

    work really hard to continue spreading the Santorum surge

    A little tender courage at that rare right instant, and things might well have turned out differently -- Ken Kesey

    by Frankenoid on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:22:48 PM PST

  •  finally the anti-contraception crowd is out! now (11+ / 0-)

    there is a position that might have a bit of trouble getting much traction in our country.

  •  NH is 60% Catholic... if they coalesce... (11+ / 0-)

    around Slick Rick, he could surge within a few points of Mittens.

    “I trust in God, but God wants to see us help ourselves by putting people back to work.” President Obama 11/2/11

    by BarackStarObama on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:23:19 PM PST

  •  Why Not Santorum? (7+ / 0-)

    He is everything the repugs want.  He is white, racist, homophobic, and very conservative.  He is the repugs wet dream come alive.

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:25:07 PM PST

  •  Some of them are NOT Republicans (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron

    and others are not all that religious; it's the evangelical Protestants that are more crucial.

  •  sounds like newt wants a vp spot. (3+ / 0-)

    either that or his kisses up for no reason better than i thought he would

  •  LOL at the GOP. Thanks to them I've been living on (3+ / 0-)

    popcorn and endless laughter.
    Now I look like this guy (except with more melanin & female parts).

    Very Fat Cartman

    Santorum says in=I laugh my ass off=Mittens goes further right=Obama prances into a 2nd term

    A house divided against itself cannot stand. Abraham Lincoln

    by YoungArizonaLiberal on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:29:29 PM PST

  •  What needs to be done again is to take (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron, Agent99

    Santorums words and change  "Christian" to "Islamist" and see how that plays out.

  •  He's not believable as Presidnet. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirtandiron, mungley

    He lacks gravitas, and he's too extreme. I don't think theres any chance of him being the nominee. He woudl lose to Obama in a landslide; most republicans know that So all he's really doing is keeping the conservative vote split and helping Romney.

    It'd be better if Gingrich became the conservative that was coalesced around. He could possibly beat Romney. But with Santorum now doing well and Perry staying in the race, thats perfect for Romney.

  •  Because everyone wants a sanctimonious prig (8+ / 0-)

    bigot as president.

    Seems like it was just a cycle or two ago when folks kept harping on which candidate they'd like to have a beer with.  Can you imagine a beer with this guy?

    •  Having a beer with Santorum isn't (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Joe Bob

      that much of a stretch, at least before he met his wife.  From "11 Things...Santorum":

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...

      His high school nickname was "The Rooster." According to a 2005 profile in the Philadelphia City Paper, when Santorum was in high school, "Everybody called him 'Rooster' because of a strand of hair on the back of his head which stood up, and because of his competitive, in-your-face attitude. 'He would debate anything and everything with you, mostly sports,' [a friend recalled]. 'He was like a rooster. He never backed down.'" That profile also contains this description of the young Santorum, before he met his wife, courtesy of a cousin: "Rick was a funny guy. He sported a bushy moustache for a time, wore Hawaiian shirts and smoked cigars. He liked to laugh, drink and call things 'horsey-assey.' He was very popular and fun to be around."

      The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:06:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Looks like we're gonna need (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Superribbie, mungley

    some paper towels to clean up after this surge of santorum.

    The Republican Party is now the sworn enemy of the United States of America.

    Listen to All Over The Place - we play all kinds of music!

    by TheGreatLeapForward on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:31:02 PM PST

  •  Religion as an issue.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kait

    This one is a loser for we democrats.  It's fine and dandy here on DKos to go after Christians and all of their demonations and such....but, it's a loser if that's going to be one of our big issues.  

    Bad political philosophy, imo.

    - If you don't like gay marriage, blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

    by r2did2 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:33:21 PM PST

    •  Sad to say, you are probably right, but it won't (0+ / 0-)

      happen because Obama is very religious himself.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:11:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ew (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Superribbie

    I'd rather not see the phrase "Santorum surge" ever again.

    Define irony: I'm not a racist, but...

    by xenothaulus on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:33:24 PM PST

  •  I'll take pulling to the right as far as possible. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Agent99

    The reality of the Blue States is going to hit the far right very hard,
    Let's make sure its as awkward as possible for them to get behind Romney when he pulls ahead.

    Please Vote for the Democratic nominee for President in 2012.

    by mungley on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:34:14 PM PST

  •  Isn't New Hampshire (2+ / 0-)

    much more Catholic than most states?

    Not sure how this will affect things, but it might help him a bit.

  •  As a Catholic, I am appalled (9+ / 0-)

    Religion has no place in politics. I'm watching for seismic tremors from the Kennedy grave-site in Arlington.

    "Every Pootie is a masterpiece." - Da Vinci

    by mdsiamese on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:44:20 PM PST

  •  please do not use the phrase "Santorum surge" (2+ / 0-)

    unless to copyright and misuse it, of course.

    Je regretez mon mariage

    by Mark B on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:48:33 PM PST

  •  JFK's speech to Texas Protestant Ministers: (4+ / 0-)

    ..."But because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected president, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured — perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again not what kind of church I believe in — for that should be important only to me — but what kind of America I believe in.

    I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

    I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

    For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew— or a Quaker or a Unitarian or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you — until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

    Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end; where all men and all churches are treated as equal; where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice; where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind; and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.
    ...
    I would not look with favor upon a president working to subvert the First Amendment's guarantees of religious liberty. Nor would our system of checks and balances permit him to do so. And neither do I look with favor upon those who would work to subvert Article VI of the Constitution by requiring a religious test — even by indirection — for it. If they disagree with that safeguard, they should be out openly working to repeal it.
    ...
    I want a chief executive whose public acts are responsible to all groups and obligated to none; who can attend any ceremony, service or dinner his office may appropriately require of him; and whose fulfillment of his presidential oath is not limited or conditioned by any religious oath, ritual or obligation.
    ...
    But let me stress again that these are my views. For contrary to common newspaper usage, I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me.

    "Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~Robert F. Kennedy

    by Agent99 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 04:51:47 PM PST

    •  I have little doubt that JFK did mean every (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Agent99, mdsiamese, enhydra lutris

      word of that speech. I also see the fine writting skills of Ted Sorenson.

    •  YouTube clip posted upthread (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Agent99

      Thanks for the transcript.

      The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:12:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Santorum - Kennedy, same-same, sure, (0+ / 0-)

      true dat.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:13:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not the same at all. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kait

        Kennedy understood and clearly stated the importance of the separation of church and state. I am inclined to think that most Americans still agree wholeheartedly with this.

        Santorum may appeal to the subsection of zealots hell-bent on imposing their version of the Taliban on their fellow citizens, but I'm confident that the vast majority of people, religious or not, reject authoritarian dominionism.

        "Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~Robert F. Kennedy

        by Agent99 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 07:23:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
          Kennedy understood and clearly stated the importance of the separation of church and state.

          agree

          Santorum may appeal to the subsection of zealots hell-bent on imposing their version of the Taliban on their fellow citizens,

          agree

          but I'm confident that the vast majority of people, religious or not, reject authoritarian dominionism.

          I'm not.

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 09:39:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I can think of no one more suited than Santorum (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    big annie

    to strap on the suicide vest that is the 2012 Republican presidential campaign. I think the Republicans don't even care any more about winning, just about doing as much damage as they can. Santorum is a zealot who would love to be a martyr. Go Ricky! Heaven awaits you.

  •  I'm wondering if I'm the only one to feel this way (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    enhydra lutris, big annie, lurkyloo, kait

    When are these churches going to be required to pay taxes since they seem to be preaching politics to their followers? I'm kind of sick of this. What do you think?

  •  Santorum, he makes George Allen look smart n/t (0+ / 0-)

    There is no hell on earth appropriate enough for those who would promote the killing of another person, in the name of a god.

    by HarryParatestis on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:00:40 PM PST

  •  The hypocrisy of (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greenfinches, kait, Eric Nelson

    these "religious Catholics" (note, this is NOT calling all (or even most) Catholics hypocrites) is breathtaking -- not that "religious" is within quotations for reason.

    While voting, so strongly, re "pro-life" due to Papal guidance they fervently ignore the Republican candidate's diligent adherence to anti-science syndrome rejection of climate science.  As for that, the Pope's statement as discussed in Catholic Weekly in February 2011:

    Pope Benedict XVI has continually emphasized the moral dimensions of climate change and our responsibility to care for creation. In his World Day of Peace Message, our Holy Father declares there is an urgent moral need for solidarity with creation and those affected by climate change. The pope insists, “To protect the environment, and to safeguard natural resources and the climate, there is a need to act in accordance with clearly-defined rules ... while at the same time taking into due account the solidarity we owe to those living in the poorer areas of our world and to future generations” (no. 7).

    Clearly, Rick Santorum's rejection of climate science puts him squarely aligned with the Pope's teachings ... NOT!

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:02:43 PM PST

  •  He is so earnestly offensive (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kait

    he's a sociopath, really.  I don't think that many people believe that abortion = slavery to the Holocaust power.  But he does and isn't afraid to talk about.  And showing your stillborn baby (fetus) to your kids--well-intentioned perhaps but muy weird.  Hard to look away.
    Hope he has a nice long run.  He'll get the dog lover vote too.  

  •  I think your first instinct is the right one. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lurkyloo
    I'm torn between wanting him to stay in the race as long as possible, thus forcing Romney to continue his kowtowing to the hard-hard-right, or wanting him to just go away quickly so that conservatives can get on with trying to draft a new, less ridiculous version.

    Santorum is the anti-glue that, in combination with the murderous narcissistic rage of Gingrich, will create a rift between sane America and the Googley-eyed far right that is impossible to ignore.  

    Mitt will continue to speak with a forked tongue to both the center right  and far right of every issue, but he'll have to push it even further to the insane neverlands of far-right cuckoo-ville just to counter the 'he's not one of us rhetoric" coming from Santorum and Gingrich, not to mention Mr. Caboose pulling up the rear, Rick Perry.

    All of this is saving the democrats tremendous amounts of money.  Let the factions of the right tear apart their own presumptive candidate.  He'll be nicely tenderized in the minds of the general public when we finally get down to business.

  •  Santorum is worse than a nightmare (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kait

    its like a bad acid trip. I will have agita as long as he is a viable candidate.

    I wanted Obama the community organizer. I got Obama the Wall Street lawyer.

    by Van Buren on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:06:17 PM PST

  •  I have two very evangelical Freinds (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdsiamese, big annie, Greenfinches, kait

    I had dinner with one last night and lunch with the other today. Just randomly because we didn't get together on the holidays

    We've never really talked about politics, other then maybe to explain that President Obama was born in the America.

    But these two guys, who have never met, go to different churches, both made it a point to talk about politics for the first time with me.

    Namely the fact that they HATE Obama, and that he has to go. Virtually saying God wants Obama out of office. They both almost said the same exact thing

    I think there is a massive wave of propaganda rushing over the evangelical community.  

  •  I would disagree, slightly (0+ / 0-)
    He hates all the right things-
    no, he hates all the Left things...

    As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

    by BPARTR on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:13:03 PM PST

  •  Would this make Sanitorium out to be... (0+ / 0-)

    ...the Papal Macaca? That would make the new liturgy Gloria in excelsis teh stoopid!!!

    I count even the single grain of sand to be a higher life-form than the likes of Sarah Palin and her odious ilk.

    by Liberal Panzer on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:14:31 PM PST

  •  Keep him and see Romney fall off the right side.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..edge of the world

    I'm torn between wanting him to stay in the race as long as possible, thus forcing Romney to continue his kowtowing to the hard-hard-right
    Shoe leather and timing put Santorum where he is, prolly mostly timing, but he lacks the $ to last past SC and he can't canvass the whole country.
    So go Ricky - and take your sermon with you on the way down
    •  If he lasts more than week without (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson

      being blasted out of the water by Romney's PACS...Koch money and shitloads of other money will start flowing like wine at a Roman orgy.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:25:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm beginning to buy Seneca Doane's theory (4+ / 0-)

    The Newtster wants to be Cheney to Santorum's Shrub.

    Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað

    by milkbone on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:30:49 PM PST

  •  As Liberal catholic and knowing conservative (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kait

    catholics' hatred for Mormons, I bet you that they will go for Santorum

    "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

    by LaurenMonica on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:37:46 PM PST

  •  "Senators hate talking about life and marriage" (0+ / 0-)

    Wait, what? No, they don't.

  •  What's the word again? (0+ / 0-)
    What do you think: Should we support Rick Santorum?

    Eh... what's that word I'm looking for? Ah yes: NO.

    15 years old and a proud progressive and Phillies phan.

    by vidanto on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:56:20 PM PST

  •  Gingrich + Santorum > Romney (0+ / 0-)

    There's no way Mitt can keep up with the bashing from the Newtonian Attack Dog, Santorum (for what that's worth), everyone else, the media, and Obama.

    15 years old and a proud progressive and Phillies phan.

    by vidanto on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 05:57:42 PM PST

  •  Santorum surge? (0+ / 0-)

    Sounds awful.

    Better get some rags and maybe a bottle of Clorox.

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    by Joe Bob on Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 06:05:36 PM PST

  •  It Just Doesn't Matter (0+ / 0-)

    Even if NH had the same demographics as Vatican City, we all know

    1) Santorum won't win NH.
    2) He won't be the nominee.
    3) Even if I'm wrong on 1 and 2, Obama would gleefully run against Santorum.

    So, moving right along...

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