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As a visiting Occupier from Occupy Los Angeles put it to the Occupy Oakland General Assembly yesterday:

We have a lot of time to shut down the whole world.

And so they do. When you can organize the November 2nd Oakland General Strike in less than a week, and a West Coast Port Shutdown in less than a month, three months is an eternity, even to shut down the world.

Occupy Oakland's General Assembly last night voted unanimously, 200-0 (with hundreds still in jail from Saturday night), to join in support of a call for a General Strike originating with Occupy Los Angeles. It will take place on International Workers' Day, May 1st, 2012.

International Workers' Day (also known as May Day) is a celebration of the international labour movement and left-wing movements. It commonly sees organized street demonstrations and marches by working people and their labour unions throughout most of the world. May 1 is a national holiday in more than 80 countries. It is also celebrated unofficially in many other countries...

International Workers' Day is the commemoration of the 1886 Haymarket Massacre in Chicago, when, after an unknown person threw a dynamite bomb at police as they dispersed a public meeting, Chicago police fired on workers during a general strike for the eight hour workday, killing several demonstrators and resulting in the deaths of several police officers, largely from friendly fire...

Right-wing governments have traditionally sought to repress the message behind International Workers' Day, with fascist governments in Portugal, Italy, Germany and Spain abolishing the workers' holiday, and the Conservative party in the UK currently attempting to abolish the UK's annual May Day Bank Holiday.

-- Wikipedia

Supporting Occupations include

Occupy Wall Street |  Occupy Williamsburg  |  Occupy Portland  |  Occupy Seattle  |  Occupy Miami  |  Occupy Long Beach  |  Occupy Riverside  |  Occupy Los Angeles  |  Occupy Seattle  |  Occupy Oakland  |  Occupy Brooklyn  |  Occupy Chicago  |  Occupy El Paso  |  Occupy Boston  |  Occupy Pensacola  |  and more

The resolution, as passed by the Occupy Oakland General Assembly, reads, in part:

On May Day 2012, Occupy Oakland will join with people from all walks of life in all parts of the world around the world in a global general strike to shut down the global circulation of capital that every day serves to enrich the ruling classes and impoverish the rest of us.

And it ends with

"Strike! Blockade! Occupy!"

Never let it be said that Occupy thinks small.

Originally posted to jpmassar on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:21 AM PST.

Also republished by Occupy Wall Street, ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement, California politics, SFKossacks, Dailykos Kossacks For Action, and In Support of Labor and Unions.



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Comment Preferences

  •  I'd be pleased to participate (22+ / 0-)

    ...unless I'm actually, you know, working by then.

    We're resigned to our collective fate because we've been conditioned to believe that this is as good as it gets.

    by Richard Cranium on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:31:16 AM PST

      •  I wrote the following nearly 7 years ago: (9+ / 0-)

        (and have republished on DKos a couple of times since...this is just an excerpt)

        ...If I mounted the tallest soapbox, and called for a general work stoppage in the U.S. tomorrow (assuming anyone would listen to me), as much as you know how powerful such a statement would be, you'd still be at work so you could make the mortgage nut at the end of the month.  You know it and I know it.  You know why I know it?  Because I would be, too.

        We're slaves.  We're just living in better accommodations than the brothers and sisters 150 years ago...

        Is the time right now?  It certainly wasn't back then.  But I feel pretty confident in saying that even though awareness of economic inequality has increased significantly since the time I wrote that, the end result would be pretty much the same today.

        Perhaps I'm wrong.  I'm willing to be wrong.  I hope I'm wrong.

        We're resigned to our collective fate because we've been conditioned to believe that this is as good as it gets.

        by Richard Cranium on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:38:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Who'd of thunk back in July (9+ / 0-)

          the talk would all be Occupy...

        •  Bah, it's not slavery (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, valion, AaronInSanDiego

          That viewpoint goes too far.

          People choose to get mortgages. The bottom line is that people want things other people have and produce. And in order to get those things, they have to have something to trade for those things. Generally, it is their labor. So yeah, if people want to continue enjoying the things other people are providing them with, they have to continue providing their services. That's how an economy works - it's not slavery. Not in the slightest. The key difference is that people are free to choose how much they engage in the economy.

          Plus, if you're smart, there's plenty of room for upward mobility. You have the freedom to change careers (unlike slavery). Study and take a GMAT, take out 60k in loans for business school, and you can have a $80k+ salary when you get out. If you're currently making $40k, you have a payback period of like 2 years. That's a hell of an investment.

          •  What country are you in? That pathway is now (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, elwior, DawnN

            gone in America.  Even if you got that education somehow, getting a job to pay back the loan is impossible if there are no jobs.  There are plenty of students graduating to joblessness and crushing debt.  We are slaves to debt.  We are controlled by debt.  What we 'choose' to do is limited by who our Daddy was, and how much money we are born with.  Some have no chance at all.

            Business school would be helpful if health care wasn't tied to employment.  People could start businesses without using the Russian Roulette version of healthcare.

            #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

            by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:49:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm in America! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              valion, AaronInSanDiego

              And there are jobs for the people with applicable educations. America's problem is structural unemployment. People aren't trained for the jobs that are out there.

              Manual, unskilled, and semi-skilled jobs (manufacturing, cashier, waiters, administrative assistants, etc.) are declining in value for two basic reasons. First, automation is reducing the demand for those jobs. Second, globalization and global competition from cultures that have a lower standard of living are bidding down the price of that labor. We can complain all we want here, but the simple unreversable fact is that both of these trends are going to continue. Most people here would probably fight with me on this point, but it is the way it is.

              Now, if we want to continue having a standard of living higher than the rest of the world, we have to provide products and/or services that are the envy of the world. And that means we need to be the smart people. We can build sustainable competitive advantage in the world, and that route is high levels of applicable education.

              To address some of your comments, that pathway is not gone in America. I know because it is my pathway. Jobs exist for well educated people. The debt, as I mentioned above, is easily repayable with the increased salary. I mean, if you get a degree in art history, or english, or a number of other things for which there is little market demand, yeah, you're going to get a low paying job and have issues with debt repayment. Remember, the economy is all about trading for the things you want. If nobody wants your services, you don't get much in return. It's not about who your daddy was, except in the case that if you daddy was rich, he can cover you if you pursue a career that doesn't generate much income. But even then, the kids just spend down the family fortune buying goods and services from people who presently have the in-demand jobs.

              As for business school and health insurance, you can get health insurance through most business schools. Also, most peopel coming out of business school don't start their own business - they work for massive businesses and get excellent medical benefits.

              •  I take it you have never been hungry, or homeless, (5+ / 0-)

                or lived in a situation that makes your statements seem cruel and laughable.  I have.  If everyone could do what you are suggesting, and everyone who is starving and hurting had such an opportunity, that would be great.  But that isn't reality.  Not everyone can get a loan to go to a great school.  Not every graduate would get a job.  Just how many "business" upper-class jobs do you think there are?  Millions of people are hurting, not just a few.  There aren't millions of such jobs.  When McDonald's hired some 50,000 people (or whatever that number was) - there were 100 applicants for each spot - at McDonald's.  Even if you could provide the education necessary to bring every hurting American up to speed in the 'correct' college courses, there wouldn't be enough jobs.  It isn't the answer to the overall problem.

                A good start would be a giant infrastructure rebuild of America.  That takes deficit spending.  Spitting at the pump doesn't prime it.  Taxes returned to 'normal' levels on the rich, and on Corporations, and a total elimination of tax credits for the rich and Corporations - all by itself would do a lot to solve America's problem.  We are still the richest country in the world, but the majority of us don't have the money.  Just a few, very, very wealthy people do.

                Your comments smack of privilege and ignorance of the reality that so many people are living in.  Getting a loan to go to school is pretty useless when you can't even feed yourself or your family - or health "insurance" bills have bankrupted you.

                #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

                by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:20:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'm questioned on a personal level more than I (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jpmassar, sviscusi

                  like on this site. I'm serious. If you want to do point, counter-point, I'll talk to you. But what sucks is responding to shit like this:

                  I take it you have never been hungry, or homeless...
                  Your comments smack of privilege and ignorance of the reality that so many people are living in.

                  First off, I haven't been homeless, but I have been hungry.

                  Second, I'm aware of the reality people are living in. That doesn't change the economic dynamics of it. If you want a higher paying job than someone in China, you'd better be able to do something they can't.

                  •  Wow. You do understand that a lot of American (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    ladyjames, JayRaye

                    jobs were sent to China for that very reason - because they don't have regulations against little kids working in sweatshops, no protections, suicides common - and will work for pennies.  American Corporations actually have tax incentives to send our jobs there.  They paid lobbyists to encourage the passing of such bills and laws.  Most 'lower class' Americans don't have a chance.  Most Americans do not have the personal infrastructure in place to do what you are suggesting.  Pardon me for being frank, but it really sounds like you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

                    Any job in America is a higher paying job than one in China.  Republicans would have us all working just like they do.  Republicans say exactly the same fucking thing you just said.  First you tell people to go get a loan to go to 'business school' - and can't, apparently,  comprehend why that isn't a realistic solution.  Then you say that we just have to live with the crappy situation forced on us by the ultra-wealthy, by doing something the Chinese cannot.  What is it that any American can do that any Chinese cannot?  So we should all be like the Chinese???  You make wild leaps of logic.

                    If you want a higher paying job than someone in China, you'd better be able to do something they can't.

                    Personally, I am able to do that.  But, I am a rarity.  And, I never got a college education.  My parent's poor credit (for being poor), and no inheritance of any kind - I had to fight for my life, and I did, and came out on top of a lot of others - but that was a bloody, denigrating fight.  12 of my best friends are dead, just for being in the wrong hood.  I almost ended up dead many times, just by being poor and in a bad neighborhood. I am lucky.  Most are not.  If only very smart, connected people are able to get that business school education, what about the dumb Americans?  What about those who can't cut it in business school.  Should they just starve???  Our manufacturing jobs have been sent overseas to add more to line the pockets of the rich.  Cheap slave labor is what you get in China dude.  Exactly what the 1% would have us be.

                    Americans are wonderfully creative and have great ingenuity, but there are so many things that are now piled on them, there isn't a ladder up for most any more.  Comprehension of what it's like to live under crushing debt is far different than what it was like 20 or 30 years ago.  That's why we are in the streets.  When you just suggest getting a loan, going to school, being a business person - and somehow getting a job that will double your income, you seem like you must be very isolated and don't really have a grasp of the real world, and what people are really going through.  Most Americans do not have access to that pathway.  This is why I find your comments kind of ignorant.

                    Take it personally if you want to.  Your comments invite criticism.

                    #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

                    by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 05:04:25 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  what bbrown writes is true to an extent only (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Evolutionary, jpmassar

                it is true that if you have ability to do higher math, and/or design weapons systems, you will do well enough even after paying back the costs of your degree(s)

                but having that education gets you a job with the bad guys, the corps that are eating the american dream, or, like many young people graduating from law school, working 80 plus hours a week, and all of them needing the coke to keep going...

                •  I'm one of those people. I could have gone to (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  great heights, if I was rich enough to go to college. Assuming that everyone can just get a loan, go to school, get good grades, and get a high paying job - used to be the American Dream.  It was just a dream.  Reality is far different.  bbrown seems to think everyone can do that.  I could list a hundred reasons why that isn't a viable solution to America's ills.  I got where I got because I'm a scrapper and very, very forward.  I got pitted against others, and survived.  A college education used to be free to the student.  Now it's unattainable for most - and was unattainable for me too (you have to have credit to get loans, and great credit to get loans big enough for a good school).  So many kids out there are graduating into a mountain of debt they will eventually be forced to default on.  There are no jobs.

                  I've heard the Republican talking point about there not being enough skilled people to take the available jobs out there.  It's a bullshit argument.  Getting the education on a loan is like playing Russian Roulette.  Most do not get that high paying job now.  I know several PHD's working retail jobs.  They apply for those high paying jobs over and over, to no avail.

                  #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

                  by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 05:23:47 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  WTF? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, LucyandByron, Evolutionary

            "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

            by elwior on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:40:24 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  as long as Occupy makes it clear that they are (7+ / 0-)

        peaceful and will remain peaceful.

        I say this with the secondary intent that we need to throw the book and take to court the police departments who have violated our civil rights.  We have to be and remain in the right.

        May they peacefully protest and gain traction.

        I belong to the “US” of America, not the “ME,$,ME,$,ME,$,ME,$” of America!

        by SeaTurtle on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:09:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Labor Day Creation Was Co-Opting Of IWD By The 1% (21+ / 0-)
    In the United States and Canada, however, the official holiday for workers is Labor Day in September. This day was promoted by the Central Labor Union and the Knights of Labor, who organized the first parade in New York City. After the Haymarket Square riot in May, 1886, US President Grover Cleveland feared that commemorating Labor Day on May 1 could become an opportunity to commemorate the riots. Thus he moved in 1887 to support the Labor Day that the Knights supported.[7]

    Existence is no more than the precarious attainment of relevance in an intensely mobile flux of past, present, and future.~~~ Susan Sontag

    by frandor55 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:31:31 AM PST

  •  Every American worker who is eligable (15+ / 0-)

    for unemployment benefits (in case they are fired) should participate in a May Day General strike.

    What we don't seem to realize is that a true, nation-wide General Strike would completely shut down the country.

    Bush liked to make fun of the French. Hell, the French and the British have done this more than once.

    What if we out-smarted the police? Instead of demonstrating on May Day, people just stayed home? Called in sick.

    It would make a hell of a statement, but unfortunately, labor is more afraid of the 1 percent than the other way around. It would be a hell of a way to turn the tables.

    Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car.

    by commonmass on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:35:02 AM PST

  •  Even better: not only strike, but (18+ / 0-)

    DO NOT SPEND ANY MONEY on May 1. No bank transactions. If it's your payday, suspend direct deposit or do not deposit your check. Save up for it. Shop early.

    Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car.

    by commonmass on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:39:37 AM PST

  •  May 1 is the perfect and traditional day (13+ / 0-)

    for this action, and now is just about the right amount of lead time to start announcing it and building support.

    My god what a boost this could be for shifting the political conversation in this country even more than Occupy already has.   In a very good way.  

    Count me in!

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:40:29 AM PST

  •  Solidarity! (7+ / 0-)

    Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car.

    by commonmass on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 08:41:26 AM PST

  •  The U.S. is a special case. (12+ / 0-)

    Unlike Egypt and many other countries we have a powerful legislature that must submit its candidacy every 2 years. This is one of those years. This body is owned by capital, but need not. It is only the failure to organize voters that permits Congress to be reelected without meeting voter demands. The essential demand this year is to legislate capital out of politics. Whatever candidate doesn't beg the voters for the opportunity to that, gets to look for work outside of politics. This is very doable, it would be a job Occupy could do.

  •  "Awesome" is still in the majority... (4+ / 0-)
  •  Terrible idea because it won't work (16+ / 0-)

    It takes years to build up the organization to pull off a general strike, and OWS is NOWHERE near having that organizational strength.

    I'm probably one of the few DKers who has lived in a country where there were general strikes and participated in them -- South Africa.  

    The Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) called two general strikes while I was living there and compliance was almost total among the black majority and progressive whites.

    One of the lessons I learned watching COSATU is how reluctant they were to call a general strike and how rarely they did, even though they had the organizational power to do so.

    Know why?

    Because if you call a general strike and it doesn't happen you merely demonstrate your powerlessness and lack of organization.

    It took COSATU and its predecessor from around 1974 to around 1986 -- twelve years -- to build up the capacity and penetration of the labor force to be able successfully to call a general strike and make it happen and scare the government and corporate sector into reversing course on whatever stupid thing they were doing.

    If you call a general strike for May 1, and out of a labor force of a hundred million, a few hundred or thousand people participate you will just be setting back your movement and the reputation you've built up.

    A general strike is supposed to be general -- everyone stays home.

    If you want to call a strike by participants in OWS by all means do so.

    Calling a general strike, though, is stupid at this point.  When 99.9% of the workforce goes to work that day, you will turn the slogan "we're the 99%" on its head.

    •  I agree at this point it won't work well. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, Evolutionary

      In a few years, I believe it is not only possible, but will happen.

      Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car.

      by commonmass on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:12:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Interesting analysis. (9+ / 0-)

      OTOH, they did not have the Internet back then.  I suspect that three months is severely pushing it, but twelve years in this day and age is absurdly long.

      And it depends on what you want to achieve and expect to achieve.  People shout "General Strike!" but no one really expects the entire workforce or even the vast majority of it to stay home or march.  Getting shitloads of people out onto the streets will likely count as a pretty good victory.

    •  "Organized" general strikes are for the birds. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Evolutionary, jpmassar, ladyjames

      If we can pull off something real here it will be a national wildcat general strike.  That is far scarier to the ruling class than a well-managed and directed general strike organized by massive conglomerations of trade unions.  Even if we get a far lower percentage of the workforce to participate than a "traditional" strike would have.

      Why?  Because a strike that is carefully coordinated and controlled by huge federations of trade unions is easy to manage, weather and/or co-opt.  It's by definition tame and cautious, even if the feelings and individual actions of the rank-and-file are not.  Several big shots in the labor federations get to decide what the demands are, what concessions are necessary to save face (they know their actual demands won't be met in full) and when they get to declare "victory" and tell everyone to go back to work.  It's easy pickings for our adversaries when everything we do is so tied up in a hierarchical, central decision-making apparatus.

      When people wildcat, we are unpredictable and uncontrollable.  No one gets to tell us what our demands are, or what concessions we have to accept or when we must go back to work.  We decide for ourselves.  There is no intermediary in the struggle.  It is us and the other side, facing off.  We learn of our own power this way.  And that scares the shit out of elites.

      This can be a one day exercise in awakening our power and sending a true warning shot across the bow of the elite's luxury yacht.  It won't necessarily be that, but it could be if it resonates and grows spontaneously, getting picked up by groups and organizations and individual workers all across the country.

      The politics of direct action is based, to a certain degree, on a faith that freedom is contagious. - David Graeber

      by An Affirming Flame on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 12:28:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And what's the possibility (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        that tens of millions of secretaries, carpenters, plumbers, construction workers, teachers, nurses, etc., etc., are going to miss work and strike because a website and OWS, from a top down perspective, tell them to?

        You know what the probability is?


        •  OWS isn't telling anyone to go on strike. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ladyjames, Evolutionary

          It's an idea.  People are free to pick it up or not.  You will not be thrown out of your union (and consequently your job) if you don't go on strike on May 1st.

          Therefore, the people who do go on strike will be doing it out of commitment, not fear or conformity.

          That's powerful stuff.  Even if it is only tens or hundreds of thousands instead of tens of millions.

          The politics of direct action is based, to a certain degree, on a faith that freedom is contagious. - David Graeber

          by An Affirming Flame on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:21:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Then it isn't a "general strike" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            It's a strike by 500 - 1000 people associated with the OWS movement out of a labor force of 100 million.

            Go ahead and enjoy, but the only way to call it a general strike is to pervert the definition of "general strike."

            Meanwhile all around the world, progressive movements that actually care about doing the ground work are able to mount real general strikes in order to bring down oppressive regimes and create real social change.

            But the American left is, in the global context of left movements, uniquely incompetent, uniquely lazy and uniquely unaware of history.

            •  I'm not providing a critique from "the American (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              left."  I'm providing an anarchist critique of trade unions and movements controlled by them.

              I'd love to have a real general strike.  One will never come from trade unions though.  The IWW or some other revolutionary union, perhaps, but certainly, certainly we will never see a real general strike from the AFL-CIO or (shudder) SEIU.  They might, theoretically, someday mobilize to get tens of millions of workers to strike for a day.  But I'm pretty sure that kind of general strike would only succeed despite the efforts of the labor federations, not because of them.

              I'm also quite confident that far more than 500-1000 people will strike on May 1st.  At least 5,000 people struck in Oakland alone last fall.  We're not going to see tens of millions (barring something miraculous), but we'll certainly see many thousands (barring some awful collapse).

              The politics of direct action is based, to a certain degree, on a faith that freedom is contagious. - David Graeber

              by An Affirming Flame on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 02:12:38 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're from the ... (0+ / 0-)

                anarchist left?

                Ha ha ha ha .. Ha ha ha ha ha..  ha ha ha ha ..
                ha ....   ha ha ha ha ha ha ...   Ha ha ha ha ha ha
                ha ha ha ha ....   Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....  
                Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....  Ha ha ha ha ha ha
                 ha ha ha ha ....    

                •  Uuuuuhhhhhhh! (0+ / 0-)

                  And you want to actually accomplish something?

                  Oh no, you got me started again!@

                  Ha ha ha ha .. Ha ha ha ha ha..  ha ha ha ha ..
                  ha ....   ha ha ha ha ha ha ...   Ha ha ha ha ha ha
                  ha ha ha ha ....   Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....  
                  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....  Ha ha ha ha ha ha
                   ha ha ha ha ....    

            •  You might be on the wrong blog. (0+ / 0-)
              But the American left is, in the global context of left movements, uniquely incompetent, uniquely lazy and uniquely unaware of history.

              I find that insulting.  So us lefties are now incompetent, lazy, and uneducated about history?


              #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

              by Evolutionary on Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 12:39:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Most people ignore OWS anyway so it's not (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HamdenRice, jpmassar

      going to hurt it much more. Yeah, it's not going to work.

  •  Is this being coordinated with other events (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, commonmass, elwior


  •  Hope Unions march in solidarity, not just Occupy (7+ / 0-)

    I'm not used to hearing of an event so far in advance. Hopefully this time is used to convince all unionized workers to strike on May 1st and turn people out in the 100's of thousands.  A million?

    "To the People (aka the 99%): Our only demand is an invitation: Join Us!" -- Occupy Oakland Demands 10/13/2011

    by mic check oakland on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:18:09 AM PST

  •  It's a good idea, (5+ / 0-)

    and where do I go to help organize it?

    The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

    "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

    by Punditus Maximus on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:22:36 AM PST

  •  Not a chance. (7+ / 0-)

    May Day protests in London have largely been co-opted by black bloc troublemakers and anti-capitalist anarchist morons in recent years.

    Absolutely zero chance of me or any of my family joining them on a protest, ever.

  •  I don't think it'll work. (5+ / 0-)

    It's a nice thought, but as I read the comments and think about the people in my life, I don't see any indication that the Occupy movement is nearly coordinated, organized, or large enough to produce a general strike that could make a serious impact.

    Now, spring may change all that, as people come back out to Occupy sites; if I see indications that I'm wrong in my assessment about a general strike, I may change my May 1 teaching/working plans. But at the moment, it doesn't appear to me that Occupy has anywhere near the depth or breadth of support, or the organizational wherewithal, to pull off a general strike that would get the support of anywhere near the necessary critical mass.

    As for my plans, I have to teach a class on May 1, and it's the day students are scheduled to give their major speeches—so I'm not going to pull that rug out from under them. After the classes are done, all my work is done from my home, I don't really clock in as such, and it's absolutely necessary for me to get my Tuesday work done so that I'll be ready for the stuff I do on Wednesday. (Otherwise I'm just working twice as hard on Wednesday.) So I've still got to get that done too.

    In short—I have no intention of participating in a May 1 general strike, as the one place where my participation would actually be noticed would require serious reworking of my semester schedule, to the detriment of my students' class experience. And unless I'm convinced that the level of support and organization is there that would make the general strike a success, I can't justify that.

    And I really doubt I'm the only one in that boat.

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:50:12 AM PST

    •  Perhaps your students will take it upon (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, JamesGG, Evolutionary


      •  I wouldn't bet on it. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I've only had these particular students for one day of classes so far (our semester started last week), but if they're like the ones I've had in nine previous semesters at this university, I think they'll be more concerned on the whole about finding out where the good parties are on Thursday and Friday nights or talking about the basketball team than they will be about an Occupy general strike.

        In my experience, the students at the university where I teach aren't really very political at all—which is odd, given the university's proximity to DC. And my classes are mostly freshmen and sophomores, making them even less likely to get politically engaged (as the whole "real world" thing is still a few years away for them).

        Again, I could be wrong as spring comes, but I don't think it's all that likely that I am.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:12:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What do you teach? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JamesGG, elwior
          •  Ironically enough, I teach public speaking. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            You'd think that would attract folks of a more political/activist bent, until you consider that it's a required course for the business program and a few other pre-corporate-y majors—meaning that my class is about 1/3 undecideds (undeclared freshmen and sophomores, mostly thinking "what major will get me a job?"), 1/3 Comm majors (a majority of whom want to go into PR, in my experience), and 1/3 pre-business students.

            The majority of my students, from my top-of-my-head impressions, have been Democrats and particularly liberal on social issues (they are, after all, Millennials), but with a very few exceptions (maybe 1 student every third section) haven't ever seemed all that interested in activism.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:37:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Striking is a very high risk tactic (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, isabelle hayes

      Even labor unions now generally view the calling of a strike action as a last resort. For you, it would mean a serious reworking of your schedule and an inconvenience for your students. For many others, it would mean losing wages that they cannot afford to  lose and threat of serious retribution from employers. Even if this idea of a general strike did gain some serious momentum, there would be significant push-back from the powers-that-be. Lots of "Show-up on May 1 or your done and no, you won't be collecting any unemployment" type of threats.

      OWS also has to contend with a general American distaste for not showing up to work. It's a stupid and counterproductive instinct that at least partly explains why some of our workplaces are downright inhumane, but it's there and it needs to be considered.

      I love the "Days of Action" tactic, but a general strike seems a bit ambitious at this point.

    •  It has at least a chance of working (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, elwior, Evolutionary

      And it will depend heavily on how well people work with different unions to make this happen.  What needs to happen is a big push to start doing outreach to the Union rank and file as well as leadership.  We might be at a point where we can get them on board with this.  Also, getting students involved should be another big push for this.  I think that one of the problems occupy has is that successes have come a bit too easy so far and we really need to realize that that isn't going to last forever, we need o be out there organizing.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:33:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Could we reschedule to Saturday, the 5th? That (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, jpmassar

      would be a lot more convenient for everyone.

  •  Adbusters started it: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior, Evolutionary, aliasalias

    ASDF, posted today.  Very cogent statement:

    Greed's self-regulation is collapse. So is delusion's.

    by Publius2008 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:24:22 AM PST

    •  This has been brewing for a while (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, elwior, An Affirming Flame

      Really there has been talk of a general strike since the events in Madison last year.  I think that would have been a much better use of people's energy than the recalls.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:42:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  OMG. (4+ / 0-)

        No, no.  Toppling Walker and his cronies will be a huge, incredible victory.  It will inspire huge numbers of people who are not "crazed" activists like Occupiers!

        Diversity of tactics! (and strategy!)

        •  And if it fails? (0+ / 0-)

          What of all those resources that went into organizing.  I think the important thing is that it really shouldn't have been an either/or situation.  A general strike could have been used as a day organizing for the recall.  All to often electoral politics are used as a replacement for other organizing when really it should be supplemental to other organizing.  Unions seem to have lost their history and started organizing as other non-profits do, not utilizing the real power they have.

          There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

          by AoT on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:52:21 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  For those who can't access that now, (6+ / 0-)

      here's the text:
          Against the backdrop of a global uprising that is simmering in dozens of countries and thousands of cities and towns, the G8 and NATO will hold a rare simultaneous summit in Chicago this May. The world’s military and political elites, heads of state, 7,500 officials from 80 nations, and more than 2,500 journalists will be there.

      And so will we.

      On May 1, 50,000 people from all over the world will flock to Chicago, set up tents, kitchens, peaceful barricades and #OCCUPYCHICAGO for a month. With a bit of luck, we’ll pull off the biggest multinational occupation of a summit meeting the world has ever seen.

      And this time around we’re not going to put up with the kind of police repression that happened during the Democratic National Convention protests in Chicago, 1968 … nor will we abide by any phony restrictions the City of Chicago may want to impose on our first amendment rights. We’ll go there with our heads held high and assemble for a month-long people’s summit … we’ll march and chant and sing and shout and exercise our right to tell our elected representatives what we want … the constitution will be our guide.

      And when the G8 and NATO meet behind closed doors on May 19, we’ll be ready with our demands: a Robin Hood Tax … a ban on high frequency ‘flash’ trading … a binding climate change accord … a three strikes and you’re out law for corporate criminals … an all out initiative for a nuclear-free Middle East … whatever we decide in our general assemblies and in our global internet brainstorm – we the people will set the agenda for the next few years and demand our leaders carry it out.

      And if they don’t listen … if they ignore us and put our demands on the back burner like they’ve done so many times before … then, with Gandhian ferocity, we’ll flashmob the streets, shut down stock exchanges, campuses, corporate headquarters and cities across the globe … we’ll make the price of doing business as usual too much to bear.

      Jammers, pack your tents, muster up your courage and prepare for a big bang in Chicago this Spring. If we don’t stand up now and fight now for a different kind of future we may not have much of a future … so let’s live without dead time for a month in May and see what happens …

      for the wild,
      Culture Jammers HQ / / Occupy Chicago
      Adbusters / Facebook / Twitter / Reddit

         And BTW, if you can access those links, the second one has Paul Mason speaking, and is well worth listening to.

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:29:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where's the "This is a good idea and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, Matt Z

    it will fizzle", option?

    I've got no problem taking the day off May 1st. Gas prices then will determine whether or not its feasible for me to get to a march.

    But I'm a minority among my friends.  Most of whom will have no choice but to be at work May 1.

    "The future of man is not one billion of us fighting over limited resources on a soon-to-be dead planet. . .I won't go back into the cave for anyone."

    by Whimsical on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:32:20 AM PST

  •  Good luck n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, elwior

    "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

    by AaronInSanDiego on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:35:59 AM PST

  •  Not Everyone Liks OWS JP (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, ladyjames, elwior, Evolutionary

    I'm writing a diary on this subject right now, but regardless of that, if you cannot tell from the comments there is a significant minority of people - who knows where they come from or who they really are - that take every opportunity to criticize the occupy movement for the various tactics it employs.

    These are the exact some people that told MLK Jr. that civil disobedience was too 'rowdy' and that all he was doing was stirring up trouble and causing pain.

    If occupy calls for a strike, "Well that won't work!" if Occupy calls itself the "99%", then all of the sudden "Well they're not really the 99%!"

    Occupy calls for the building of a civic center in Oakland, "All you want to do is fight the police!"

    If we can apply donuts and ban hammers to people for using the phrase Obamabot, then how come we tolerate all this bullshit from people who are attacking OWS - the very BASE of the democratic party?!

    •  I can certainly tell that. (5+ / 0-)

      It is rather amusing.  "Don't do this."  "No, don't do that, either." "And for FSM sake, don't do THAT!"

      When we have health care for all, and big money out of politics, and banks too small to cause the entire world to fail, then they can demand that no one do anything!

    •  What's to like? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, HamdenRice, FG

      it was originally Occupy Wall Street with a subtext of Hammer the Banksters and it was a damn good idea.   Now its occupy everything,  disrupt working people's lives, and fight the cops, just like the 60s, man, that was cool.  The problem with idealistic youth movements is that the young often don't know or have a weak grasp of history.   I can't wait to see if the Democratic convention gets occupied- we may see a real repeat of history.

    •  Do you know how much groundwork MLK did? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, JamesGG, peregrinus

      If you did, you wouldn't be comparing OWS with the SCLC.  Some of us have been around and seen how effective organizing works and how actual general strikes work.

      Among other things, if you are trying to create a democratic movement, you have to act democratically -- which means the grass roots creating the general strike, not some web site.

      •  Yeah, I DO, You DO NOT (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, Evolutionary, ladyjames

        Because MLK Jr. was not the only black person fighting for civil rights. Or the only white one. I cannot compare the SCLC because that was run like a hierarchical political entity training soldiers against the establishment. OWS is not so rigid in its structure.

        Guess what: OWS is as democratic as it gets; ever heard of a general assembly? Guess not. Guess everyone should wait until we all agree on everything ever before we act.


        •  SCLC was NOT hierarchical (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          That's the basic history you seem to be missing and the basic insight you don't get about OWS.

          Having a website and declaring that 1 billion people should go on strike on May 1st -- that's hierarchical no matter how ignorantly the people pushing this think they aren't.

          Trying to corral 5,000 - 10,000 churches, NAACP branches, student associations, union locals, Urban League branches, National Association of Negro Women groups, adult branches of the black fraternities and sororities into agreeing on a date and plan for a non-violent action -- that is democratic and non-hierarchical.

          The idea of a few people declaring global general strike without even being union members is frankly laughable from the perspective of what works in creating social change.

          Yeah good luck with that.  

          I wonder how many plumbers, carpenters, cement pourers, construction workers, nurses, medical residents, teachers, secretaries, bus drivers, cashiers, legal aid lawyers, etc., etc., are going to go on strike May 1st because "ad busters" has declared a global general strike.


          •  Yes, It Was (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:


            Something for you to chew on.

            And maybe many of those people will go on strike; they're showing up to OWS rallies and benefit from economic equality.

            But you know some liberal website said it so fuck you, or something.

          •  I am one of those workers. I will join a General (4+ / 0-)

            Strike on May 1.  I will encourage my fellow workers to do the same.  I am also a member of a Union, and we are already talking about it.  "Just one website" will become a hundred thousand of them.  It has to start somewhere.  You sound a lot like you would be happy to throttle it in its infancy.  You are not helping, you are hindering.

            If you have nothing to contribute to this movement, then get out of the way, because we will be 'moving' without you.  The comment above that says that OWS is the base of the Democratic Party - isn't just some bullshit.  I and most of my Occupy friends (and I have been to several), are very liberal, predominately Democrat, and angry as hell.  It's more than just young people.  I see seniors all the time.  We are all angry that our Constitution is being trampled on.  We are all angry that Corporations are ruling our country.  We've had it.  I am not alone.

            At the fast pace of today's society, three months is an Eon.  Calling for a General Strike might not get every worker out there to do it - some have no choice but to work, or starve - because they would lose their job.  Those of us that can get away with it will do it.  We don't need to 'corral' anyone.  All we need to do is spread the word.  Occupy has already had an enormous, visible effect on our world.  We are still only just getting started.  It's been four months.  Look around you.  No politician is ignoring it now.  Not one.

            So stay home, and keep taking it in the backside.  No one is forcing you to comply.  

            #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

            by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:04:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  maybe it was a bit much (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Evolutionary, ladyjames, jpmassar

              to say it is the base as if it is an interest group since it seems to sweeping, but what are the seniors going to do: vote for romney and paul ryan's budget? Yeah, I'm sure.

              What about the poor and the unemployed, the ripped off, and the ethnic? I'm not sure when the Republicans cared for their vote that would be news to me. Everyone wants the Democratic party to be energized, and for the people to make the change they believe in and blah blah blah, but all of the sudden people take action and we have to put on the brakes I mean what is going on?!

          •  There aren't union members involved in Occupy? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Have you not been paying attention?

            There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

            by AoT on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:12:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •   (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Unions have democratic procedures -- things like "strike votes."  In fact the strike vote is the single most momentous kind of decision a union makes and is taken very seriously.

              No where else in the world would someone equate union members participation in a movement that calls for a general strike to "unions calling for a general strike."

              •  To be clear, I was refering to the part where you (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:


                he idea of a few people declaring global general strike without even being union members is frankly laughable from the perspective of what works in creating social change.

                I probably should have just quoted it and said that, yes, there definitely were union members involved.

                There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                by AoT on Tue Jan 31, 2012 at 06:59:58 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Some of us have been around too long (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Evolutionary, ladyjames

        and apply lessons from the past that may or may not still be the most applicable to today's world.

        Just ask the Congresscritters about "web sites" and SOPA and PIPA.

      •  That's an important point to make. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, HamdenRice

        If Dr. King's nonviolent direct action wing of the civil rights movement was nothing else, it was incredibly organized—with clear leadership and a strong structure in place, capable of long-term strategizing and engagement with the process of change on multiple levels.

        Additionally, every time they took a nonviolent direct action, whether it was a boycott, a strike, a sit-in, or a demonstration, the action was very carefully refined, strategized, and planned—to make it as specific, targeted, and likely to be effective as possible.

        They also had people so totally committed to the cause that they would (and often did) put their safety and their lives on the line for it, knowing they were going to go up against violent resistance from police and citizenry on a level that would make what Occupy has faced thus far look rather tame in comparison.

        Organizationally and conceptually, from what I've seen, Occupy seems more in line with the spirit of the (much less effective) anti-war and revolutionary movements of the '60s than it does with the civil rights movement.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:46:28 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You do understand you are comparing (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JamesGG, Evolutionary, ladyjames

          a decade long movement with a three-month year old movement, right?

          I have no idea, but I suspect Dr. King learned some lessons from early mistakes and was not always as organized as his group became.

          •  Of course. Occupy is still in its infancy. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HamdenRice, jpmassar

            But the thing that worries me here that the Occupy movement doesn't seem to have learned from what worked and didn't work for social movements throughout the nation's history, in terms of getting the support of the public at large—and from what I've seen, their structure and processes seem more a hindrance than a help to me in that regard.

            My personal opinion is that there needs to be a much larger strategic vision for the 99% movement, which I envision as a "movement of movements" with Occupy's nonviolent direct actions as only a single tactical part of the overall whole. This larger whole would include much more coordination, plans for communication with the general public and for engagement (whether confrontational or cooperative) with the various power structures in the country, and multiple movement structures that could galvanize and mobilize various populations within the larger public.

            But at the moment, I'm in no position to realize that... and my dissertation advisor would disown me if I took the time to try :-)

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 12:05:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  No criticism allowed? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, HamdenRice

      I am guilty of false consciousness and class betrayal, apparently.  I don't remember telling my old pal Martin that his tactics were too rowdy, nor do I recall anarchists hijacking his events.  MLK's opponents tried to red-bait him without success because his movement stayed focused on the "Prize".  We'll see how a May Day event turns out, I suppose.

      •  legitimate criticism is fantastic (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        But Occupy Oakland cannot help it if a bunch of black-masked doucheasses appear and wreck stuff.

        They've condemned that behavior enough already, and I've watched the livestreams and seen the clips where OO activists try to stop black-masked inciters only to be attacked or knocked over.

        I understand some of the criticism because I agree with it: eventually we have to stop occupying things because ultimately occupy's satellite societies derive their resources from the very society they are trying to break away from. But that's being done in Oakland already: They've had marches, shut down ports, and debates with the city administrators: but that isn't what rebounds through the echo chambers when someone is getting his skull blown up by a tear gas canister.

        What other criticisms?

        Well why not occupy the media? The reason why the media is so important is because meaningful social relationships have degraded and so people are informed primarily through their chosen media. It just so happens the national chosen media is not representing the needs of its customers and they are not even aware of it.

        Maybe if occupy Chicago, and maybe they are doing this I just have not heard anywhere about it, occupied the local big-channel news station demanding their side be aired maybe we'd get somewhere.

        Well that is more of a suggestion than a criticism... but I guess they could reach out to the local NAACP more or something if they have not already.

        What has the Occupy movement done that is so wrong everyone is on the precipe of condemnation?

  •  The largest political mistake of (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, elwior, Matt Z, Evolutionary

    the last 50 years was our failure in 1968 to prevent Nixon's election at all costs. Liberals tried to warn us, we saw little difference between them and Nixon. Subsequent generations have had to live with the cost of that betrayal- as a result of Nixon's Court we now have the end of democracy and of the middle-class. The undoing of that mistake by eliminating big money from politics and stripping the Court of jurisdiction over political questions, is the only door out of the prison.  OWS has been dealing with that for about 5 months.

  •  Interesting (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The puppet master in your illustration bears a resemblance to Leonid Brezhnev.    Fits in with the whole Mayday, soviet thing and will no doubt  energize occupiers everywhere.

  •  Better messaging, please? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Musial, jpmassar, elwior

    I've seen many a movement get the opposite of what it not having done enough homework.


    Theodore Roosevelt:
    We draw the line against misconduct, not against wealth.
    State of the Union address (2 December 1902)

  •  Also, do something every day (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, Musial, elwior, Evolutionary

    Write letters to editors, contact elected officials.....
    Go into stores and ask if they have anything made in USA, anything union-made.

    And DO support your local stores and restaurants, mom and pop businesses.

  •  ASDF (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, elwior, aliasalias

    Greed's self-regulation is collapse. So is delusion's.

    by Publius2008 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:22:42 AM PST

  •  Websites too? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    For example, take itself.  If the intent is that no labor be performed on that day, and Kos wanted to support the strike, then he'd shut down the site for that day.  I'm curious as to whether shutting down Dkos, and websites in general (including social/communication sites like twitter, email sites, etc), is part of the intent of the strike.

    •  In theory (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      you don't need any labor to maintain a website, at least for a day.  Computers do run by themselves, except when they don't.

      •  When I speculated on the intent of the strike (0+ / 0-)

        being "no labor be performed", I mispoke my intent.  I meant, "if the purpose of the strike is to shut down commerce for a day, then does that mean shutting down websites?"  A website running without human labor for a day still conducts commerce (web ads still run, clicks are still registered (and somehow turned into money), website subscriptions can still be purchased, etc).  So if a website owner wanted to support a strike whose intent is to shut down commerce for the duration of the strike, then it seems he/she would have to actually shut down the site.  I'm wonderiing if doing such is part of the strike's intent.

        Regarding a site like DKos, where new content is posted each day (in the case of DKos, I refer to the front page stories), the new content is created and posted via human labor.  Would supporting the strike entail at least no new content being posted by a given site's human staff for that day?

        •  Yeah, I'd say so. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          If DKos wanted to support the general strike then the front page should not have new articles posted to it that day (or maybe from 9:00 to 5:00)

          •  jp (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            In most other general strikes, sympathetic newspapers were exempt. So I think you should reconsider. Communication is important.

            If there's a reason for the rich to rule, please Lord, tell us why. -Battle of Jericol, Coal Mining Woman

            by JayRaye on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:46:55 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  That is a good question, and I'd say it should (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayRaye, jpmassar

          stay up.  Communication is important in these sorts of things and it would be really good to have a resource getting info out. There doesn't need to be a huge number of front page stories, maybe a day without mentioning the damn republican candidates might be nice.

          There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

          by AoT on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:18:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  I think this is actually going to happen. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ecclesiastaverbs, jpmassar, ladyjames

    I will be helping to make it so.

    #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

    by Evolutionary on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:11:09 PM PST

  •  Thanks jpmassar, very productive conversation. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ladyjames, jpmassar

    Now you have a better idea which way the wind is blowing.

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