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this is short, but in watching tonight's commentary, i noticed that nobody seemed to take into account the catholic/anti-choice vote, as a determining factor. below the fold, but short

i live in st louis and watching the prognostications, all night, i noticed that everyone was calling for big romney wins in the suburbs. one thing that none of the pundits/bloggers were taking into account is the fact that we have a sizable conservative catholic population, that votes in the primaries, along choice, not economic, lines. i think that most of the time that would be right, but in the face of all the recent komen/pp controversy, i think that the anti-choice/conservative catholic forces turned out big for santorum, the anti-choice/conservative catholic candidate.

this is just from the sense i got, on the street, but i think that the komen controversy has had a boomerang effect on romney, and his on-again-off-again record on choice.

my two cents.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (12+ / 0-)

    Philosophers have interpreted the world, the point is to change it. -Karl Marx

    by dissonantdissident on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:25:21 PM PST

  •  So what does that portend for the election? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10, happymisanthropy, Mayfly

    I say it bodes well for Obama in the general because there are more freedom of choice voters even among Catholics. And the prospect of Santorum as the Republican nominee will galvanize the left like never before.

    So everybody lets spread some more frothy mix!

    --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

    by chipoliwog on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:34:53 PM PST

  •  you're probably right (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dissonantdissident, exterris, Pluto

    i bet all the komen brouhaha mobilized the catholic vote.

    My goal is to make the world safe for anarchy. - 4Freedom

    by Cedwyn on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:37:18 PM PST

  •  Yeah, but in the general, a pro-lifer with a job (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RamblinDave

    is worth two pro-choicers without one

    What'd the devil give you for your soul, Tommy? He taught me to play this here guitar REAL good. Oh son, for that you traded your everlastin' soul? Well, I wuddn' usin' it.

    by ZedMont on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:39:11 PM PST

  •  i;m just saying that polling started shifting, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bamjack, radarlady

    anti-choicers got riled up, romney embraced the "komen was right" theme, and he went down, hard. that's a lot of coincidences. i don't know what it means for the general, but still.

    Philosophers have interpreted the world, the point is to change it. -Karl Marx

    by dissonantdissident on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:44:20 PM PST

    •  Plus, all the MO papers today had above the fold (5+ / 0-)

      a huge forced-birth pro-Catholic paid ad...(er, article)...about how since the Catholic church has been against contraceptives for thousands of years, how could the big bad government enforce the law against the poor little discriminated-against church.

      Cry me the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers.

      And screw the American Taliban. We must not allow religion to insert itself into our government. I'll stay out of their church and they can stay out of my life.

       

      "Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~Robert F. Kennedy

      by Agent99 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 11:47:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  It wasn't Catholics, but evangelicals (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pluto, radarlady

    that will win this for Santorum, if he wins.

    I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

    by James Allen on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:44:48 PM PST

    •  i was just giving my perspective (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      radarlady

      i think the anit-choice votes will be a sleeper factor, in tonight's results... whether or not they identify as catholic or evangelical.

      Philosophers have interpreted the world, the point is to change it. -Karl Marx

      by dissonantdissident on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:47:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  you do know half of American Catholics vote (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        exterris, radarlady

        Democratic, don't you? evangelicals not only outnumber Catholics, they make up a much larger share of the Republican primary electorate.

        I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

        by James Allen on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:54:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  but they're not voting in a republican primary (5+ / 0-)

          the catholic vote that turns out in these primaries is not the reliably democratic catholic vote, they're the very conservative segment. a few thousand extra anti-choice, catholic votes, in a low turnout primary, and you're talking a real effect.

          Philosophers have interpreted the world, the point is to change it. -Karl Marx

          by dissonantdissident on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:57:06 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  sure, I'm just saying that if you're talking about (0+ / 0-)

            culturally conservative voters in a Republican primary, Evangelicals will in almost every state outnumber Catholics by a wide margin.

            I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

            by James Allen on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 11:02:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  not disagreeing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Agent99

              but the urban/suburban areas that santorum was supposed to win by large margins, but either lost or won by smaller than forecasted margings, tend to be higher in catholic population, compared to the more rural areas, where santorum was expected to win big, anyway. at least that's the case, here in the st louis metro area.

              Philosophers have interpreted the world, the point is to change it. -Karl Marx

              by dissonantdissident on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 11:06:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  I think you're right. A real uber Catholic will (7+ / 0-)

    not vote for the likes of Noot nor the Mormon. Frothy is the man.

    For the rest of us his stance on birth control should be enough to give the election to Obama.

    They want a culture war. Let's give them one and make this about the right to have legal access to birth control.

    Congressional elections have consequences!

    by Cordyc on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 10:48:17 PM PST

    •  Which is why I like (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Quequeg

      the Obama decision. Get it out and let it fly! The crazy will be evident. Even liberal/progressives are saying the Pres should walk this back and I say "Let's fight" The majority of America is going to see how controlling and ridiculous the bishops are and how the right is a bunch of hypocrites.

      And she's good at appearing sane, I just want you to know. Winwood/Capaldi

      by tobendaro on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 03:54:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sounds rational to me, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dissonantdissident

    there's something wrong anytime you start thinking there's anything rational in what today's generation of Republicans do.

    It's a point worth considering. What I don't know is what the opposite bounce is. If most of the right wing Catholics are going GOP, what happens when the other side starts to vote in real elections.

  •  Tommy Sowers, a MO Democrat, ran on 'pro-life' (11+ / 0-)

    He had huge pro-life posters in the front windows of his campaign office a few years ago. I contacted the office by phone, and a man answered who identified himself as the leader of the local TeaParty, saying that the TeaParty endorsed Tommy Sowers because he went pro-life.

    I contacted the campaign directly, explaining the pro-choice Democratic Party platform, and mentioning that allowing the opposition access to the Democratic offices and phones was akin to sanctioning Watergate.

    They blue-dogged their way out of standing up for pro-choice by whining that no one could win in MO if they didn't pander to the American Taliban.

    Sowers failed pathetically to represent Democrats, and lost his race by a miserably poor margin. He lost a lot of voters by allowing the religious right to set the goalposts.

    There needs to be a serious pushback by Democrats in these states where the right has made up the rules that choice is the only election issue. The people in these states would welcome another Civilian Conservation Corps type program, as FDR established during the last Depression.

    "Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~Robert F. Kennedy

    by Agent99 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 at 11:27:23 PM PST

    •  Obama would win big if a real Jobs Program (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chloris creator, tobendaro

      were to be introduced into states with severe poverty.

      Not giant highway bids for megacorporations; but real public works programs that could give average people decent jobs at halfway-decent wages. People in MO are still very grateful for the Federal jobs that saved their lives in the Depression.

      We could radically shift the Republican playbook by focusing attention on actually meeting people's needs. The Republicans are counting on a win by focusing the dissatisfication of voters onto women, gays, etc. But we need to refocus attention on what people really need right now: Jobs that pay enough to live.

      "Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~Robert F. Kennedy

      by Agent99 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 12:30:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Anti-Choice is the main Republican vote-getter. (0+ / 0-)

    Democrats who go along with this, or who ignore or dismiss reproductive rights as 'single-issue' concerns, do so at the peril of losing elections.

     

    "Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope." ~Robert F. Kennedy

    by Agent99 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 12:06:28 AM PST

  •  Interesting perspective (0+ / 0-)

    and one worthy of more analysis

    www.tapestryofbronze.com

    by chloris creator on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 02:10:23 AM PST

  •  I wonder if conservative catholics or evangelicals (0+ / 0-)

    are likely to be more virulently anti-Mormon? Of course a candidate like Frothy Rick would be happy with either answer, in a state like MO.

  •  Ultimately the 1% are learning (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes, tobendaro

    1. They still need people with pulses to vote.
    2. Said people, even reactionary ones, don't like the 1%.
    3. And simply buying out the Republic not only isn't cost-effective ... it isn't safe for them
    4. So, they're going to slowly box up the Mittbot...
    5. ... and I think they're going to revisit just how much they love them some Santorum
    6. Because the 1% might want to come out of the closet and bask in the glory of being Republigods (rich)
    7. But it just isn't going to work out that way.
    8. Not today, anyway.

    As for the Komen disaster: think springboard to higher office. That's how Karen Handel thought of Komen, and used it. That the org is ruined is not even a concern for her.

    My guess is she's getting a promotion out of this.

  •  The Catholic anti-choice vote (0+ / 0-)

    is not a factor. This is an issue the wingnut right has dished up to their evangelicals to stir up their outrage. It's not about the Catholic church. If this issue wasn't something the religious right could use to manipulate their members, they'd use it as an excuse to come down against the Catholic church.

  •  Yet totally misleading when comes the election (0+ / 0-)

    That's the thing about primaries/caucuses: they grossly exaggerate the influence of the maniac single-issue vote.

    Sure, enraged hissing mad Catholic fundies turn out to vote for Santorum in the primary. But come November, the vastly larger number of sane, calm, sensible Catholic neighbors who actually use birth control will stroll to the polls and tick the box for someone less....frothy.

  •  Santorum won because he's a protest vote (0+ / 0-)

    Not just against Romney, but against Romney with the realization that Obama will definitely win re-election. So long as anti-Romney Republicans have hope for victory in November they're always motivated to throw in the towel with an imperfect candidate, but the overwhelming evidence of Obama's impending victory frees those anti-Romney Republicans to pursue perfection, and thy name ain't Mitt.

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Wed Feb 08, 2012 at 07:30:26 AM PST

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