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I don't know if I can embed this or not, and I'm not even going to try. NO WAY am I downloading it onto my computer. But GAWKER's got an article about some cable show called "Dance Moms" and one episode, where they're apparently teaching 8-10 year old gilrs about fan dancing. I don't know how long Gawker's going to be able to hang on to the video, thank FSM someone with brains is chasing down the YouTube and other links. The producers say this episode will not air again.

Those of you who follow me, or catch my occasional comment or diary, know that I am one of the more sex-positive people here. I'm pretty unflappable, so when I say something is inappropriate...I mean what were these people thinking? Have they never heard of pedophiles?

Sorry for the short diary, I'll be back to add more, but I wanted to get the word out before Gawker looses the video.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (18+ / 0-)

    “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

    by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 11:31:45 AM PDT

  •  There's a lot of that sort of crap TV I find far (14+ / 0-)

    more offensive than naked adults could ever be.  I think another similarly repulsive show, probably aired by the same network, is called 'Toddlers in Tiaras' or somesuch.

    •  I have no problem with naked adults doing whatever (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, Smoh, Bach50b3, raincrow

      Heck, I've been one of them. And I will admit that I don't know what's out there as "crap TV" because I don't watch much and I don't have cable.

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:03:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good god! Why is that not child porn? And the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jonathan Hoag

        mom's, how dare they!

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:43:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Porn is in the eye of the beholder. I've been (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Smoh

          told that I was a rapist because I made adult porn. And I have indulged legal adults in age-play fantasies.

          But this crossed a line, even for me.

          “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

          by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 01:10:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are too many pedophiles beholding. nt (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jonathan Hoag

            Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

            by Smoh on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 02:13:21 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, that's what annoys me. That's why I didn't (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Smoh

              embed. That's why I didn't even try to download this in case Gawkier "lost" it.

              I can't believe a TV exec would have "GREEN-LIGHTED" this episode. What were they thinking? Smoh, you've commented on my comments; I'm not a total stranger to you. You know I'm not umm... sexually judgmental. Can you propose any explanation as to how a TV executive can have said, "Sure, let's air this," Really, I'm asking.

              “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

              by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 02:25:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I believe that he thought it would make a big (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Jonathan Hoag

                splash and increase viewers.  He is probably too stupid or pedaphiley to consider the possible negative response.  On the other hand, people will watch ANYTHING it seems.  Auctioning off the contents of storage areas?  Watching people get parking tickets? Puh..lease!

                Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

                by Smoh on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 03:31:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  "Pedaphiley?" Never mind...I've seen the storage (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Smoh

                  unit show, having been someone who's bought the contents of a storage unit before, it's kind of interesting, but not great TV. But these are adults taking a chance on a "pig in a poke" kind of deal. They're ADULTS.

                  As Malcolm McDowell said in "Easy A", If I can keep the girls off the pole and the boys off the pipe, I get a bonus."

                  “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

                  by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 05:05:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  A friend posted the video (0+ / 0-)

                on our hockey forum. The one young woman...talking about how the costumes made her and the other girls "feel kinda...icky" -- they've got way more sense than that stupid "dance coach". And that one mom at least had the decency to feel "mortified" at the crowd's hooting and hollering. TV exec hell, WTF was the "coach" thinking? If I had a daughter and she had a dance coach making her dance practically nekkid, I'd be pulling that daughter out of dance class and putting her into science or art.

                The optimist sees the glass as half-full. The pessimist sees the glass as half-empty. The realist just knows she's thirsty.

                by Cali Scribe on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 05:50:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  I also thought I had relatively broad standards (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jonathan Hoag

            for what was prurient and what was acceptable, but I agree with you

  •  If Gawker "looses" the video Jezebel has a copy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    swampyankee, Smoh

    here.

    But there's no way I'm embedding it here, I have enough trouble with Mrs. Grundy around these parts.

    “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

    by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 11:47:07 AM PDT

  •  They touched on this on 'The Soup' (3+ / 0-)

    The show in general is absolutely horrid. Another 'reality' show centered around a gratingly reprehensible 'stage mom' who bullies kids and adults alike.

    "Are you charging by the pound?" HA!

    Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

    by TarantinoDork on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 11:51:17 AM PDT

  •  Read This Please (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    white blitz

    You need to know that the video at the Gawker website has been doctored. The girls were NEVER NUDE. They had tops on, and someone at Gawker or Jezebel manipulated the image to make it seem that they were topless.

    Was the dance controversial? Yes, absolutely. That does not excuse Gawker and Jezebel from exploiting the controversy by presenting a false picture.

    •  That wasn't my point. Teaching 8-10 year olds (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raincrow

      that "you can't have me", or "you can't afford me" is Beyond the Pale.

      I made my porn/hooking/etc. decisions as an adult. You don't teach pre-teens how to Ho.

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:01:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And here's my point (0+ / 0-)

        You posted a link to an article that present a FALSE IMAGE of what was aired. I think it's important to point that out.

        •  And the "real" images would be better, how? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow

          Teaching pre-teens to strip is not usually a good idea. I've worked with people who have grown up with issues similar to this. I've done fantasy work and one pro-call with an "age player" as well as my personal dating life, but always as an adult, always understanding that it was a role. None of the people I (whatever-ed with) was ever, in my estimation a threat to actual children.

          Fan dancing is not something you want to teach an actual ten year old. Period.

          “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

          by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:28:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  They were practically topless (0+ / 0-)

      One of the girls even talked about it. It was a sparkly bra top and boy shorts -- I watched the video from another source and it was pretty sick. It's one thing to see consenting adults who are getting paid doing that sort of dancing...this was something else. Whatever happened to reenacting "One" from A Chorus Line?

      The optimist sees the glass as half-full. The pessimist sees the glass as half-empty. The realist just knows she's thirsty.

      by Cali Scribe on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 05:53:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tpped and rec'd n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jonathan Hoag, uciguy30

    Conservatism is killing this country. Jayden

    by swampyankee on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 11:59:42 AM PDT

  •  What's the difference... (4+ / 0-)

    between a reality show producer and a carp?

    One's a scum sucking bottom dweller,

    and the other one's a fish.

    I don't blame Christians. I blame Stupid. Which sadly is a much more popular religion these days.

    by detroitmechworks on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:02:06 PM PDT

  •  I have always been totally creeped out (8+ / 0-)

    child beauty pageants and the like and his is just as creepy. It's creepy, people. Creepy.

    Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car. Ren and Stimpy: Dog on Cat equalitymaine.org

    by commonmass on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:32:04 PM PDT

    •  To be honest, I've never been a fan of child (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, Cali Scribe

      or adult beauty pageants*.Gowns, Q&A, swimsuit...why are we trying to mask the ideas that these contests are about exhibitionism and sex? I find no problem with either, but let's be honest about it. Jockey shorts contests for the boys, wet tee-shirt contests for the girls, stripper contests for both. Transgender? Take off your clothes and surprise me.Or make it  a category of the above.  Pack 'em if ya' got 'em.

      *Especially the "Miss Universe" pageant! Ever notice Miss Universe is always a homo sapien? What's up with that?

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 12:44:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  From the way this was set up (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jonathan Hoag, phonegery, raincrow

    I would suggest they were doing a feminist version of the Milgram Experiment - that's the one where they tested people to see how far they would go before they would stop electrocuting someone to death.  

    In this version they are testing the moms to see how far they will let someone (a dance teacher) go with sexualizing their daughters.  Some of the moms looked horrified but they pretty much just went along with it.

    I hope it was just an experiment.

    •  I don't know. What I do know is that stuff (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anna M

      like this, "make your parents proud" crap that crosses the line into early, or at least too early sexuality, makes a percentage of the people I used to work with. And it's not just sex, it can be math, or spelling bees, or acting, or the viola. I have no objection to anyof the above being taught to kids except burlesque dancing, and "you can't have me"; "you can't afford me." I've dated too many girls and boys who grew up that way.

      Milgram experiment? I doubt the show's producers are that smart.

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 01:04:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Fan Dance in 1935 (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jonathan Hoag, IreGyre

        was originally done by a woman named Sally Rand.  It wasn't done so much as a sexual (explicit) dance, but as a new age artform - as a rebellion against "strict" ballet.   Nudity was not always considered "pornography" like it is now.  Sally Rand actually danced in a convention that featured President Johnson.  I found a version of her dance on Youtube:

        Of course I don't know why young girls are being be taught this.  Maybe the dance instructor is giving them a course in various American dance styles?

        •  Thanks for mentioning An adopted SF girl! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Anna M

          Her first theater in SF was the Music Box, which is now the Great American Music Hall. Her "nude ranch" at the SF Golden Gate Exposition ran for two years.

          This was back before the developers made The City into just another city.

          “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

          by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 01:29:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Skimpy outfits, shaking booty, adult make-up (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jonathan Hoag

    has been SOP in dance recitals for the six to eight year old set.  The parents see nothing wrong with it or not enough wrong with it to yank their girls out of such activities.

    •  You're kidding me! WTF? I am so glad I (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Marie

      decided at a young age to never have children.

      Yikes!

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 01:13:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Was very disturbed looking through (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Jonathan Hoag

        the pictures of my assistant's six-year-old daughter's dance recital.  Costumed more like Las Vegas showgirls than little girls.

        •  Haloween is one thing. If a kid wants to dress up (0+ / 0-)

          as "Elvira, Mistress of the Night" I have no problem with it. (Sexy Nurse is another thing...)

          And I'm reasonably sex positive, but yikes!

          “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

          by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 07:51:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Horrific... (0+ / 0-)

    But this kind of stuff has been going on for some time. Anyone remembers Jon Benet Remzi? We have this certain "media" that strips our public from its moral fiber, under the guise of "art and entertainmet." Where FoxNews (!) does its destruction, "entertainment" delivers the murdering punch. Jerry Springer show too is a part of this debasement of American public sense of shame and decency. During the entire Bush decade, America's idols were Paris Hilton ans Brittney Spears. Today, Snooki and Kim Kardashian. And if they are blaming the young blacks, who do you think are selling them the "gangsta" culture?

    These are also the same type of people who buy into the right wing rhetoric.

    Same machinery...

    They are the same package.

    "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 01:06:56 PM PDT

  •  I heard a story about pole dancing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jonathan Hoag, raincrow

    a few years back where the moms were bringing the little girls in to learn pole dancing for "exercise". There is ever-increasing pressure by the media and our culture to sexualize young girls. Most parents just simply accept that pre-pubescent girls should wear sexy clothes and t-shirts with risque sayings.

    If people stopped buying that stuff, they would stop selling it.

    •  I had to think about this one. I was "taught to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cali Scribe

      dance" at an early age, mostly by stepping on my partner's feet. A stage dancing class or two, and one tap class (I was going to be an actor. Well I was an actor, but it didn't involve dancing...)

      I don't know what I think about pole dancing classes for "little girls." Upper body strength, balance, and agility when gravity isn't where you're used to it being are good things to know. I know I wish I'd known how to do that crap when I was hanging from a trapeze once.

      Fan dancing/burlesque are inappropriate for pre-teens, but pole dancing, I may, and I emphisise may, decide to classify with parallel bars, rings, uneven bars or other gymnastic staples.  

      As far as "sexy clothes and t-shirts with risque sayings" kids will wear what annoys their parents or what's popular. In my day it was "End the War" and tie-dyes. You want to get kids to stop wearing "risque t-shirts?" Start a petition banning "Virgin 'till married clothes."

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 02:13:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As far as "sexy clothes and t-shirts (0+ / 0-)

        with risque sayings", kids in that age range will wear what their parents buy them. Six year olds don't take themselves out clothes shopping. I'm talking about 0-10 years of age, not 16 year olds who are full of hormones and feeling rebellious.

  •  check "The Soup" for some stuff these (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow

    reality shows have presented.  The most disturbing clip was a little dancer dancing with an adult dressed as a wolf in a recital version of Little Red Riding Hood

    •  Yeah, well, I gave up when I started reading (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raincrow

      the original versions of Grimm's and other "children's" stories. I mean Cinderella's sister's cutting off part of their feet to fit into the glass slipper? Hansel and Gretel...never mind...serious ick.

      “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 04:51:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tap dancing teachers for little girls... (0+ / 0-)

    ... have been teaching them this number (and presenting it in recitals) for 50 years.

    ((youtube pRN5JKG3whE))

    Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright, April 2008:
    BO: ‘You know what your problem is?’
    JW: ‘What is that?’
    BO: ‘You have to tell the truth.’
    JW: ‘That’s a good problem. That’s a good problem.’
    http://bit.ly/rl6UqP

    by tbetz on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 03:00:50 PM PDT

    •  Okay, so this method of YouTube embedding... (0+ / 0-)

      ... must have been deprecated since I last used it.

      Here's the link to the video I intended.

      http://youtu.be/...

      Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright, April 2008:
      BO: ‘You know what your problem is?’
      JW: ‘What is that?’
      BO: ‘You have to tell the truth.’
      JW: ‘That’s a good problem. That’s a good problem.’
      http://bit.ly/rl6UqP

      by tbetz on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 03:02:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was the lighting designer for (0+ / 0-)

        a high school version of "Gypsy." High school and tap dancing is one thing, but have your "tap" teachers teach the kids to strip?

        “Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman (-9.00,-8.86)

        by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 04:57:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's a short step away from one "how cute"... (0+ / 0-)

          ... to the next one.

          "How cute" for a little girl to sing a song about stripping!

          "How cute" for a little girl to pretend to strip!

          Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright, April 2008:
          BO: ‘You know what your problem is?’
          JW: ‘What is that?’
          BO: ‘You have to tell the truth.’
          JW: ‘That’s a good problem. That’s a good problem.’
          http://bit.ly/rl6UqP

          by tbetz on Sun Mar 25, 2012 at 08:20:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  "Junior Idol" Stuff Is Moderately Big In Japan (0+ / 0-)

    Junior idols are generally young girls (12-17yo, IIRC)who wear as little as legally possible in photshoots. Sometimes it's a band aid over each nipple and a couple for the crotch. It sells.

    Japanese would tell you that they're not perverts, sex to them is as normal as eating and sleeping. Which I guess explains why the subject matter in Japanese porn is so...ummmm...diverse.

    ..and guess what usually happens when the model turns 18?

    This in a country where the age of consent is or used to be 12yo, and 24yo is considered to be over the hill for a woman sexually.

    But then again, both the porn and girl bizs are controlled by the Yakuza, so go figure.

    ________

    I'm a middle aged man, and still haven't been able to solve the female sexual dynamic nearly as well as females have solved males. But 10yo is a child, and this sort of thing is just wrong, whether it be a girl or a boy. Girls learn about sex probably earlier than boys, it's kind of necessary for obvious reasons, but this sort of thing is needlessly out of bounds. Much as we would consider viewing erotic pics of children in Japan.

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