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Rep. Virginia Fox
Ladies and gentlemen, the deep thoughts and abiding wisdom of Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC), complaining to G. Gordon Liddy (yeah, I know) about the young kids today and how they should all just get a job, hippie:
I went through school, I worked my way through, it took me seven years, I never borrowed a dime of money. He borrowed a little bit because we both were totally on our own when we went to college, totally. [...] I have very little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debt or even $80,000 of debt because there’s no reason for that. We live in an opportunity society and people are forgetting that. I remind folks all the time that the Declaration of Independence says “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” You don’t have it dumped in your lap.
I'm not sure how a full-time college student is supposed to come up with $50,000 per year, unless it's selling things Virginia Foxx probably doesn't approve of. But I guess back when Virginia Foxx went to college the tuition was five pumpkins and a bag of turnips, and if she could come up with it then, surely an 18-year-old can come up with $200,000 now. Get a job! Well, it's minimum wage, so get four jobs, slacker! (Oh, and did I mention that back then, they all tied onions to their belts, which was the style at the time?)

For newcomers who haven't heard of Virginia Foxx before, she is a proud member of the House dimwit caucus, alongside such esteemed freedom-geniuses as Allen West and Louie Gohmert. Amongst their weaponry: Gullibility, foot-in-mouth disease, and a fanatical lack of awareness as to the most basic realities faced by other people in the country. So yes, she says stuff like this all the time.

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Comment Preferences

    •  'Nana nitwit' (21+ / 0-)

      I watch cspan alot and she is a very mean-spirited republican- can't stand her!

      "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones."

      "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

      by roseeriter on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:23:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's not that clueless, though. (4+ / 0-)

      She said:

      I have very little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debt or even $80,000 of debt because there’s no reason for that.
      For a college degree (not law school or medical school), she's absolutely right:  there is no reason anyone should borrow anywhere near $200,000.

      College costs about $7000 per year at in-state rates---double that in a state with an imploding economy, like California.  If it costs you $40,000 per year to live as a college student, you have financial issues that will haunt you whether or not you got to school.

      Furthermore, again if you don't live in CA, even $80,000 is a gratuitious and unnecessary loan amount for college.  In NY state, $80,000 is a total full ride, including 4 years of expensive dorm living.

      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

      by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:46:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i beg to differ. (14+ / 0-)
        College costs about $7000 per year at in-state rates
        clearly, you've been looking at 1970's college catalogs, not present day ones. i doubt there's an actual accredited college or university, anywhere in the US, that charges only $7k a year in tuition. my son is presently going to college, so i have had recent experience in checking this out. so no, rep. foxx is simply an idiot, and you have no clue what you're talking about.
        •  You'd lose that bet. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caj, concernedamerican, AmyU

          California State University: Campus Costs of Attendance for 2011-2012

          All students enrolling at the CSU pay the systemwide Tuition Fee which is currently $5,472 per academic year for undergraduate students enrolling in more than 6 units per term and $3,174 for undergraduates enrolling in 6 or fewer units.
          US News and World Report: Missouri State University
          Missouri State University's ranking in the 2012 edition of Best Colleges is Regional Universities (Midwest), 53. Its in-state tuition and fees are $6,598 (2011-12); out-of-state tuition and fees are $12,418 (2011-12).

          -7.75 -4.67

          "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

          There are no Christians in foxholes.

          by Odysseus on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:55:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I am a professor at a present-day university, (4+ / 0-)

          Binghamton University, one of the four main SUNY schools in New York and the one with the highest admissions standards in the SUNY system.  Tuition and fees are $7613 per year for the 2012-13 academic year---a substantial hike from the previous year.

          Tuition jumped more than usual in the last couple years, and the yearly in-state average is now closer to $8000 than $7000.  But if you think these are 1970s numbers then you just aren't looking.

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:10:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not to mention the cost of books... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sethtriggs, wave of change

            ...has skyrocketed.  Gone ballistic as the dozen or so college text book companies have consolidated into three.  

            Required texts can easily be $1000 per semester at the full-time undergraduate level.  In the past, four-digit book bills were the burdens of graduate students as well as law and medical students (who weren't simply buying textbooks, but references they would use for years to come.)  

        •  There are plenty of good universities that (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caj, Odysseus

          tuition is even less than that.  Not only that, but once enrolled, one can make high grades and even receive scholarships every semester if they are diligent to apply.   Community colleges can knock 2 years of high tuition off 99% of students and also consider the work/study programs every campus has to offer.

          Unless you are studying to be a physician or going to law school....no reason in the world to rack up even 50,000 in loans in a bachelor program.   It makes zero sense especially when considering the average salary a BA or BS will make upon graduation.  

      •  Bullshit! (20+ / 0-)

        Instate tuition at UC Davis School of Medicine was less that $300 per quarter in 1980. Grants paid that and you could get an easy $5000 per year in loans to eek out a living. Fox graduated from Chapel Hill in 1968. Comparable state school. CPI in 1968 was 34.8, in 1980 it was 82.4, so in FOXX's day tuition was like $125.  

        By 1984 the CPI was 103.9 (up 26% - Reaganomics at work) and UCD tuition had doubled, that's growth 4x inflation.

        The 2011 CPI averaged 224.94 for the year. If tuition followed the CPI, the $300 in 1980 would be $1,940 per quarter today. If it rose at the accelerated rate seen during 1980-1984,  it would be about $3,150. But according to their www site, current tuition at UCDSOM is $9,700 per quarter in-state and $13,800 out-of-state.

        But of course Virgie Foxx know all this, but she's a conservative; she got hers, screw the rest of you!

        •  Worse yet .. 1961 not 1968 (3+ / 0-)

          at least for her first degree.

          UNC Chapel Hill 1961 Bachelors
          UNC Greensboro MA (College Teaching!) 1968
          UNC Greensboro Ed. D. 1972

          After which she was (eventually) President of Maryland Community College between 1987 to 1994.

          She then became married to politics - and presumably began her divorce from reality. Which is now, apparently, complete.

          I say worse not just because it was substantially cheaper for her to acquire those educational achievements back in the 60's - but also because her subsequent professional experience had to expose her to the realities of drastically increasing expense for college education.

          •  From the UNC Chapel Hill website: (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TrueBlueMajority, sethtriggs, VTelder

            2011 - 2012 Tuition & Fees:

            Residents:  $20,600
            Non Residents: $41,140

            http://admissions.unc.edu/...

            Yes, Virginia, there are huge tuition fees.

            •  For comparison, 1 qtr tuition and fees at (0+ / 0-)

              UNC Chapel Hill when I was there (1972) was only $1500. For an academic year, it was $4500. And I was a non-resident student at the time.

              "Mistress of the Topaz" is now available in paperback! Link here: http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/single.php?ISBN=1-55404-900-8

              by Kimball Cross on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 02:07:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  You've got her wikipedia info which is wrong (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ItsSimpleSimon

            It has her graduating college at age 18.  

            From the official congressional bio site:

            FOXX, Virginia Ann, a Representative from North Carolina; born in New York, New York County, N.Y., June 29, 1943; graduated from Crossnore High School, Crossnore, N.C., 1961; A.B., University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, N.C., 1968; M.A.C.T., University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, N.C., 1972; Ed.D., University of North Carolina, Greensboro, N.C., 1985; instructor, Caldwell Community College, Hudson, N.C.; instructor, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C.; Assistant Dean, Appalachian State University, Boone, N.C.; president, Mayland Community College, Spruce Pine, N.C., 1987-1994; landscape nursery owner; deputy secretary for management, North Carolina Department of Administration; member, Watauga County board of education, 1976-1988; member, North Carolina state senate, 1994-2004; elected as a Republican to the One Hundred Ninth Congress and to the three succeeding Congresses (January 3, 2005-present).

            •  Thanks for the correction (0+ / 0-)
            •  Foxx was also, if the article I read is correct, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TKO333

              born into a very poor family.  She did bootstrap herself up.  Considerably up.  But times have changed.  A man who borrowed $50,000 to start a restaurant some years ago had the grace to acknowledge that he couldn't do that today.  It would be $1,000,000 to start today and he couldn't possibly get the loan from where he was then.  Yes, he worked very hard, he and his wife, and they made an impressive success.  But starting from nothing, as he did then, he just could not swing a loan for the kind of money it would take today.  And he knows that.

              We all like to think well of ourselves, but some people do that by dismissing the experiences of others.  Foxx really flatters herself.

              Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

              by CarolinNJ on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 01:24:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Foxx was born in 1943. So she graduated with a (0+ / 0-)

            bachelors at 18?  I don't think so.

            Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

            by CarolinNJ on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 01:13:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Very well said... Foxx is an idiot, but as much.. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caj, AmyU

          ... as I hate to say it, there is something we can strip out her argument and probably agree with.   Foxx is simply too daft to understand the mechanics at work, and is falling back on the nostalgia trap where everyone back in the "good old days" did things the right way, just like she did.  

          One simple fact is that education prices are in the middle of a bubble, just like the mortgage bubble.  One reason the price of housing rose at rates exponentially higher than inflation was the fact the banks were handing out money like a drunken sailor in a whorehouse.   It was of no consequence to them, thanks to CDOs and CDSs.  "Need $500,000 for a 900 square foot vacation property, even though you make only $50K a year?  No problem, since if you can't pay it back it's no skin off my nose!"   As long as people could borrow so much so freely, sellers could increase prices as much as they wanted, and a strange thing happened:  people actually bought!  Nobody ever stopped to ask why a 900 soft bungalow was half a million dollars, as long as they could get the loan, they paid it.  

          Education is in a similar boat.  Costs are increasing faster than the rate of inflation.  Not only are we talking tuition here, but dorm rooms, meal plans, and even books have shot up in price without any concurrent increase in quality.   This is essentially fueled by student loans.  A student loan is the only place an 18 year old without a job or job history can borrow $100,000 with a guaranteed payback by the government if the student defaults.  When you couple that fact with the idea that "High cost equals high quality," you can see why education costs are rising to the point the market will bear -- a market that is flush with tons of money that is easy to come by and that every single tax payer is on the hook for.    

          We need the student loan program.  I'd rather go to system like Finland and some other European countries where college is free for anyone who meets the standards to get and stay in.  Not only does this level the playing field granting everyone who earns the opportunity equal access, but since the government is writing the checks, schools simply cannot justify tuition increases simply because "you're able to pay it."  But for now, lets be realistic since this country simply does not have the political will to do that.  But what we do have is the will to learn from not-so-distant mistakes in our past.  At some point in time, someone needs to  ask the simple question "why is Such-and-Such University worth that much per year, and why should we pay it?"  

          During the height of the real estate boom, if consumers had actually asked "what makes this house worth as much money as you're asking, and how is it possible that it is increasing in value every year at multiples of wage growth?" perhaps they would have made better decisions, and simply not paid the asking price just because a loan was easy to get.

          Again, Foxx's answer here is hopelessly anachronous, and is in no way related to the realities of the situation.  She is attributing this problem to individuals who are a victim of a system she clearly does not understand, and quite frankly does not want to understand since these policies are a manifestation of the policies she espouses.  However, that does not mean she's not asking a valid question.  

           

      •  well.. to select one state (8+ / 0-)

        at random.. Consider the University of CT.

        In state:

        tuition: 8,712
        fees: 2,530
        housing est. 6,776
        meal plan est. 5,044

        total 23,062

        adding in their estimate of books, supplies, transportation, and misc. it comes to 26,562.

        Of course those estimates may turn out to be high for some people in some situations. If you happen to live right next to the university you might be able to live with your family and have significantly lower room & board costs. One might be able to do the first 2 years at a community college or perhaps all 4 year at a smaller branch if one happens to be majoring in something offered at the smaller branch (engineering for instance typically isn't).

        Perhaps one could figure out a way to share an apartment and obtain very cheap food but still one is going to have to allow a good amount of money to basic living expenses if they are unable to avoid living near the campus.

        The biggest problem I have with people like Ms. Foxx is that they seem to be unable to notice that the world has changed. Low wage jobs have less buying power now and college costs considerably more. These rates above are for an instate student attending their state university. One could conceivably earn some money to offset these costs, but one could see how $50k or more of debt could arise pretty easily in this situation.

        It is easy to judge those who take on debt to attend a private university or public university out of state given they could take on less debt at a public one. However, what if the public university in their particular state doesn't have the major that they would like? What if the department in their public university is weak in the areas they want to study? It is hard for me not to be sympathetic with people who take on loans in order to make themselves the best they can be in their chosen profession, especially if the job market changed in a significant way while they were obtaining that education and paying back the loans became much harder or impossible. Note that I am not just talking about humanities or arts majors here, lately even highly educated people with degrees in engineering or science fields are having a hard time finding jobs and paying back loans.

        I think it is a significant problem if we are telling young people they can't pursue their dreams in life because college is just too much money!

        College costs about $7000 per year at in-state rates---double that in a state with an imploding economy, like California.  If it costs you $40,000 per year to live as a college student, you have financial issues that will haunt you whether or not you got to school.
        •  Perhaps? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          scotths
          Perhaps one could figure out a way to share an apartment and obtain very cheap food...
          What exactly needs to be figured out?  You get some roommates and rent an apartment.  Many if not most college students end up doing this in order to save money and gain some independence.

          As you note in your post, room and board at this school is $11,890 for an academic year (about 10 months.)  This is a pretty common annual room and board cost, and in much of the country a student can live off-campus for half that much.

          In any case, even if you assume 4 years in the dorms, your total college cost:

          tuition: 8,712
          fees: 2,530
          housing est. 6,776
          meal plan est. 5,044

          total 23,062

          ...isn't anywhere near $200,000, and certainly doesn't require $200,000 in loans.

          It is possible to spend over $200,000 to get a bachelor's degree, but only if you intentionally go to a designer-label 1%er school like Columbia.

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:55:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  costs... (0+ / 0-)
            What exactly needs to be figured out?  You get some roommates and rent an apartment.  Many if not most college students end up doing this in order to save money and gain some independence.

            As you note in your post, room and board at this school is $11,890 for an academic year (about 10 months.)  This is a pretty common annual room and board cost, and in much of the country a student can live off-campus for half that much

            .

            Fair enough. I had a scholarship as an undergraduate that was contingent on my spending 4 years in the dorms and then had financial support that allowed me to rent my own place as a graduate student.

            Still, seems like it would be hard to live for 9 months on $5,500 (that's $611/month!) even if you pack people into an apartment and eat only non-nutritious stuff that kind of resembles food!

            It is possible to spend over $200,000 to get a bachelor's degree, but only if you intentionally go to a designer-label 1%er school like Columbia.
            Agree, but I think it is more than the designer label 1%er schools that charge an arm and a leg! For instance the cost of Boston University (more of a midlevel private university)  and Harvard University is about that same! Many private schools including those not so highly ranked  charge similar large amounts and out of state tuition isn't far behind!
            •  Depends on where you live (0+ / 0-)
              Still, seems like it would be hard to live for 9 months on $5,500 (that's $611/month!) even if you pack people into an apartment and eat only non-nutritious stuff that kind of resembles food!
              At my university, a 2-3 bedroom apartment in town is $600-700/mo.  You room with 2-4 people and pay somewhere between 200 and 300 bucks a month, depending on the house.

              You have free transportation because bus fare is part of the student fees.  You then have somewhere between 300-400 dollars a month for food and utilities.  Utilities will be less than 100 dollars a month per person, leaving you with, say, $200/mo to spend on food.  This will not let you buy gluten free Penta water at Whole Foods, but you can certainly get by without getting scurvy.

              Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

              by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 10:50:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
              Agree, but I think it is more than the designer label 1%er schools that charge an arm and a leg! For instance the cost of Boston University (more of a midlevel private university)  and Harvard University is about that same!
              I solved this problem by not going to Boston University either.

              The number of schools that charge large is increasing, and now more than 100 schools charge above $50,000 per year total cost.  Many more charge $40K, which is still absurd; Californian state schools charge about $30K total cost, because they have strange ideas about taxing people; most other states charge under $20K/year total cost for a state school, which is still way too much money, but achevable without borrowing anywhere near $200,000 (or even $80,000) in loans.

              The fact is, you don't need to, and you don't have to, borrow an absurd amount of money like $200K to go to college.

              Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

              by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 10:55:26 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Recommend (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          scotths

          Id like to recommend your comment, but theres no box to do so :(.  So I'll just say it:

          Recommended!

      •  Not sure that there's an appreciation (4+ / 0-)

        for what "college costs" means here. The examples given here demonstrate that base tuition might be around $7000 annually for in-state residents of state schools, including the Cal State system. However, the full cost of education and living while a student is significantly higher. I'll be frank, it took no more than 30 seconds to pull this link up: UC Davis school fees

        which shows that the base cost, to get in the door, for California residents at UC Davis is more than $15,000 annually. Nowhere in that list is housing discussed. Here is that link: Full cost of attendance

        Again, this took approximately one minute of my time. If you cared to take a few minutes of yours, I'm sure you'd find that only in a very few cases could a student actually attend college, sleep with a roof over her/his head, and purchase books, clothes, and food appropriate to his/her station for $7000 annually. And, yes, University of California schools are expensive. I'll tell you what, though, going to Rutgers University in 1989 (which I did) would have been challenging on $7000 annually, so your numbers wouldn't have held up to reality even back then.

        Oh, and if you didn't care to click on the link, annual cost for UC Davis, including housing and food, is $30,000. And that doesn't include things like buying a pair of flip-flops so that you aren't barefoot or a bicycle to get to class.

        •  You're just confirming what I said (0+ / 0-)
          ...which shows that the base cost, to get in the door, for California residents at UC Davis is more than $15,000 annually.
          UC Davis is in California, and as I said, the in-state tuition costs in California are roughly double the average in-state tuition cost nationwide.  

          And $15000 annually is roughly double the base cost you get elsewhere.  As I wrote above, Binghamton University has a tuition cost of $7613.

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:32:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Did you pull those numbers out of your ass? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GOPGO2H3LL

        Because I got mine here:

        U.C.L.A.:
        http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/...

        Scripps College:
        http://www.scrippscollege.edu/...

        In NY state, $80,000 is a total full ride, including 4 years of expensive dorm living.
        Emphasis added.

        Dorms are usually the cheapest housing solution, other than living with one's parents.

        Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

        by expatjourno on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:32:51 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's simply not true. (0+ / 0-)

          Dorms have become very expensive in recent decades, owing to a trend towards suites, food courts, and weight rooms.  

          At my university, for example, a year in the dorms is about $12,000.  This is for 10 months.  In contrast, a 3-bedroom apartment is $600/mo.  That's if you live alone.

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 10:37:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  a three bedroom apartment for $600 a month? (0+ / 0-)

            you'd pay twice that for a one bedroom apartment where I live

            "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
            Real journalists know that lies do not bring "balance" to truth! (h/t elwior)

            by TrueBlueMajority on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:49:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  And that includes food and removes the need... (0+ / 0-)

            ...for a car, insurance, gasoline, maintenance, etc.

            In addition, a 1-bedroom apartment in the U.C.L.A. area cost a minimum of $600 a month in 1979.

            Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

            by expatjourno on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 03:33:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Your numbers agree with what I said. (0+ / 0-)

          I said:  

          College costs about $7000 per year at in-state rates---double that in a state with an imploding economy, like California
          UCLA is in California, and its tuition is $12686.  this number is less than double of 7K.  So what exactly are you arguing here?

          Your second link is to an insanely expensive private college, more expensive than Harvard, Princeton or Yale.  Only about 120 colleges nationwide have prices this high.  I think it's disingenuous to post a link like that to argue that college is expensive:  it's like pricing up a Bentley to prove that driving a car is expensive.

          Also, I know I already hammered on this, but when you say

          Dorms are usually the cheapest housing solution, other than living with one's parents
          ...you are actually contradicting your own numbers.  According to the UCLA link you quoted above, dorms are about 40% more expensive than living off-campus.  This disparity is pretty typical of dorm life in US colleges today.

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:26:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The U.C.L.A. figures don't include summer rent. (0+ / 0-)

            NONE of the college budgets include the cost of apartment rent for the summer months. Yet unless you can find someone to sublet, and get your landlord to approve the person subletting, you still have to pay it. No one is going to give you a nine-month lease. So add 3 X $1,400 to your off-campus figures. Plus utilities, plus food.

            So no, living in the dorms during the school year and spending summers with Mom and Dad is not more expensive.

            As for Harvard, having the world's biggest endowment undoubtedly subsidizes tuition and fees. In any case, their budget comes to $54,561, compared to Scripps's $54,900.

            Wesleyan costs $69,714.

            Bard College is $56,962

            http://handbook.fas.harvard.edu/...

            http://www.wesleyan.edu/...

            http://www.bard.edu/...

            Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

            by expatjourno on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 04:04:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
              So add 3 X $1,400 to your off-campus figures. Plus utilities, plus food.
              Where the Hell do you live, where a three-bedroom apartment costs $4200/month to rent?

              Also:  if I don't find a subletter when I go home for the summer, why do I still have to pay for food?  Is there going to be a squatter in my apartment who isn't paying to sublet?

              I think you're concocting an overly pessimistic picture of the cost of living.  As a college student I was able to find a sub-let every year---and really, getting your landlord to approve?  Like they're going to say, "no, you have to go broke and fail to make the rent."

              As for Harvard, having the world's biggest endowment undoubtedly subsidizes tuition and fees. In any case, their budget comes to $54,561, compared to Scripps's $54,900.

              Wesleyan costs $69,714.

              Bard College is $56,962

              And so what?  You can choose not to go to Wesleyan or Bard or Columbia or any other private school that charges this kind of money.

              You're basically saying that it's not just Bentleys, but also BMWs, that are prohibitively expensive.  This doesn't mean that 99%ers can't afford to drive a car.

              Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

              by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 11:07:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Those are pretty normal big-city rents. (0+ / 0-)

                As I said, my one-bedroom apartment was $600 per month in 1979. The $1,400 per month figure makes apartment living about the same or more expensive than living on the dorms. Just google Los Angeles apartment rents.

                As a college student I was able to find a sub-let every year---and really, getting your landlord to approve?
                You don't know much about Los Angeles rents or Los Angeles landlords, do you?

                The average budget, though, is lower than what I've cited. Since we began this discussion, I looked up the federal figures. I'm not linking because I can't be bothered to re-google, but it's a little more than $30,000 per year on average. So I do see your point.

                But a degree from a college in the midwest that has only a local reputation may be fine if you live in the midwest, or aspire to live in the midwest, but it's not going to get you far in the big city. So it's not quite as simple as you portray it, either.

                Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

                by expatjourno on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 12:44:00 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
                  You don't know much about Los Angeles rents or Los Angeles landlords, do you?
                  Fine.  If LA is so incredibly inhospitable and expensive a place to live, why not go to a state college outside of LA?

                  After all, you're not talking about a problem with the UC system, you're talking about a basic problem with the cost of living in a big city.  We have that in NY too:  Manhattan is incredibly expensive, but the SUNY system has 64 branches all over the state, and if you are too broke to live in NYC you can go to school in Binghamton, Buffalo, Albany and dozens of other places where students get by on a fraction of the cost.

                  We're talking about the simple act of procuring a living arrangement that won't put you tens of thousands of dollars in debt.  You can argue all you want that this is too hard to accomplish, but zillions of college students manage to do so every year.  

                  But a degree from a college in the midwest that has only a local reputation may be fine if you live in the midwest, or aspire to live in the midwest, but it's not going to get you far in the big city.
                  That's just elitist hogwash, and absolutely false.  I got a computer science degree from Northern Illinois University, and this got me a job at Intel's main research lab in Santa Clara.  Later it got me admission to a Ph.D. program at Princeton University. Nobody turned me away because my degree was "midwestern" or my college too provincial.

                  And why would they?  A CS education in Illinois is the same as a CS education in San Francisco.  We use the same computer chips there.  Math is the same there.  It doesn't make any logical sense for an HR department to turn you down because your degree is from a flyover state.

                  Maybe there are fields where the education matters less than the clique represented by your degree, where employers are assholes about whether you went to an Ivy league school or are urbane enough to fit in with their big city firm.  I wouldn't want to major in a subject like that, though, and I can't imagine who would want to end up in that kind of clubbish environment.

                  Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                  by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 02:41:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Maybe? (0+ / 0-)
                    Maybe there are fields where the education matters less than the clique represented by your degree, where employers are assholes about whether you went to an Ivy league school or are urbane enough to fit in with their big city firm.
                    Hahahahahahaha. You ARE naïve, aren't you?

                    Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

                    by expatjourno on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:21:07 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I suppose I must be. (0+ / 0-)

                      As I said, I never had any problems with grad admissions, the job market or getting tenure despite hailing from a lesser "midwestern" college.  

                      But again, if there are fields where people are huge dicks about where you went to school, why would anyone want to major in them?  Who wants to be one of those people?  You ask kids what they want to be when they grow up, and nobody says, "I want to be a snide elitist dickbag who won't hire anyone who went anywhere more working-class than Brown."  

                      If there is a world like that, I'm not ashamed to be laughably naïve of it.  It sounds both unpleasant and---if you need to go to some fancy 1%er designer label school---a really moronic way to spend your money.  

                      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                      by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:41:26 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  And for that matter (0+ / 0-)

                      Why would a company like that hire a liberal?  Assuming a liberal would take the job.

                      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                      by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:50:53 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  Also... (0+ / 0-)
                  But a degree from a college in the midwest that has only a local reputation may be fine if you live in the midwest, or aspire to live in the midwest, but it's not going to get you far in the big city.
                  I think you should consider the irony of saying this on Daily Kos:  Marcos also went to NIU, the same backwater midwestern state school I did.  Obviously that didn't get him very far, right?  Not good enough for the Big City, right?

                  Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                  by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 02:55:26 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And Marcos is just an average guy, right? (0+ / 0-)

                    Bill Gates didn't even graduate from college. What does THAT prove? That no one needs to go to college?

                    Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

                    by expatjourno on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:19:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  pretty much (0+ / 0-)

                      despite the success (after quite some time) of his site, marcos is a pretty regular guy. he is not (no offense to the guy) some sort of super-genius.

                      i went to NIU also. despite being a cheap school in the midwest with only a local reputation, my degree got me a fine job that i've been working for the last 15 years.

                      does it get me far in 'the big city'? i live in NYC. i'm putting my wife through 9 years of grad school and raising a child on my single income. sounds like my 'flyover country midwestern bumpkin college degree' got me pretty fuckin far.

                      you seem to have this image of college based on whether or not your degree will get you in the door at some high-priced NY law firm where it's all about what ivy league school you went to and what fraternity you pledged. that's great television, but most jobs are not like that. the vast majority of us shlubs work in jobs where a regular degree gets you in the door just as well.

                      anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

                      by chopper on Wed Apr 18, 2012 at 08:50:26 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  Like the sig. Tribalism is a bitch. (0+ / 0-)

          Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

          by CarolinNJ on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 01:28:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Dorms are very Expensive (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Caj

          Dorms and the required meal plans are generally more expensive then sharing an apartment and cooking your own meals. Many Universities require Freshman who are not commuting from home to live in University Housing and take a complete meal plan.

          This was the case when I attended college 30 years ago and it is still the case today. Today, two semesters of University supplied room and board typically run between $10-$12k.

          •  I don't think you can say that they are... (0+ / 0-)

            ..."generally" more expensive.

            It obviously depends on where you live and whether you have to pay rent for 12 months instead of nine.

            Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

            by expatjourno on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 04:06:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  But you believe Foxx's anecdote? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        smiley7, sethtriggs, CarolinNJ

        The fact that she is spouting $200k as the reason to make her idiotic statements is hyperbole at best and/or cynical.

        Fact is she disapproves of any Student Loan Program precisely because Pres. Obama yanked the risk-free profit gravy train from under the private student loan banks.

        Mark this, if the GOP has the chance to revoke Pres. Obama's law on this, Foxx will be all for student loans once again. These wingnuts are pure evil

        "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them." -- Pres. Obama (1/20/2009)

        by zizi on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:54:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yeah! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sethtriggs, dfe

        screw going to the college of your choice with the courses you want to persue.  Go to comunity college!

      •  You are arguing her random "facts" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CarolinNJ

        to turn around and attack students? You WAY missed the point. The point is she's saying because SHE could work her way through school, then every student today can do so. Bullcrap. An average public four-year college is about $20,000 a year, double for a private college. But let's say you want to economize and go to a public college. How on earth will you earn that much money as an inexperience college student working summers and part time during the school year?

        I am a few years younger than Foxx, although I see we were in school at the same time. I was fortunate: my parents started a trust fund for my education when i was a baby. Many of my classmates were able to work summers and 15 hours during the school year and pay for everything. A year at a private college cost about 1/20th what is does now. Recently, I found my tuition statements from grad school — early 70s, same time Foxx was in grad school.

        Less than $1,000 a semester. At a top-tier private university. Hey Virginia, you want to go out and find today's grad student a deal like that?

        Sheesh. What an ignorant, heartless moron.

        Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

        by anastasia p on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:27:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You are forgetting room, board, books and fees (0+ / 0-)

        In CA a four Public college runs $30,000 unless you are are able to live at home in which case it runs about half that. However, that is a big "if" because many students don't get into the University that is closest to them. A typical yearly  financial aide package for a Middle Class family will call for the kid to borrow $3000 in Secured Stafford Loans, another $2,500 in unsecured Stafford Loans, secure work study hours worth about $3000 and have Mom & Dad kick in between $5,000 and $15,000 a year depending on income and assets.  The balance $5,000 - $15,000 is granted by the University.

        The real gaps come when a student's parents can't or won't come up with any money and the student decides to take out high-interest private loans, especially when they are being used for over-priced for profit schools.

        My daughter is going to college next year and our choices are typical for a Middle Class family. Either forgo adding to our retirement, remove equity from our house (we are lucky to have equity) or saddle our kid with loans. None of the choices are particularly attractive.

        •  Even in this extreme case... (0+ / 0-)

          You don't need to borrow $200,000 to go to college.

          The numbers you quote add up to $120,000---a horrendously large figure---which is mitigated by work, savings, parental support, and other forms of financial aid.  

          Virginia Foxx is not expressing "little tolerance" for student loans, but "little tolerance" for excessive loan amounts like $200K for a college degree.  It is possible to spend that much on college if you intentionally buy a designer label, and it is possible to put the whole thing on credit with private loans, but both of these acts are financially risky and wholly unnecessary.

          You also write:

          In CA a four Public college runs $30,000 unless you are are able to live at home in which case it runs about half that.
          I've heard this several times in the thread, citing room and board prices with the alternative being living at home.  Actually, the usual alternative is living in an apartment with 3 other college students just off campus, and paying a lot less money.  At my university, living off campus is about half the cost of room and board.

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 10:41:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  "Little tolerance" (0+ / 0-)

        is the phrase that clues you in about who is talking.

        She didn't say she thought they made a mistake. She didn't say maybe they made an imprudent investment or miscalculated what their degrees were worth. She didn't say maybe they were badly misled by those who pushed them all their lives to get into and go to the most prestigious school they could, and told them over and over that those degrees would be worth a million dollars or more over the course of their working lives.

        No, she has little tolerance people who borrowed too much money for their educations.

        She makes me sick.

        We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

        by denise b on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 08:46:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  She has no clue about today's tuition costs. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CarolinNJ

      When I went  to a small, two year state school 35 years ago, I was able to get through with no loans.  Then I finished my under-grad work at the state University...small loans, which I paid off in a few years.

      Then, 11 years later, I was back in school.  The costs had increased...more loans, took longer to pay back.  But, still, the cost was nowhere near what kids are paying today.  

      I have two young married friends who are doing everything possible to cut costs...and earn money...and still their loans are approaching $100K.  One of them works full time and goes to school online, the other graduated last May and is working part-time while trying to find a better paying job.  She wants to go to grad school, but I'm not sure that will be financially possible.

      It is apparent from the many mean-spirited and often seemingly silly positions Virginia Foxx has taken on past issues that she has no clue how the world works for us real people.

      Found on the internet: "Liberals see George Orwell's 1984 as a cautionary tale. Conservatives see it as a blueprint."

      by Rev Steve on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:04:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Then what would we do with Louis Gohmert (0+ / 0-)

      I truly think Ms. Foxx is completely clueless and totally useless.  However, there is no comparison to our own nutbag from the 1st Congressional District.

      You could combine their IQ's and probably not reach triple digits.

  •  Funny thing (61+ / 0-)

    back when she went to college, state governments actually funded public universities properly, and tuition was affordable.

    What the moron doesn't realize is that we, as a society, have moved from a model of public funding of higher education by the taxpayers to a model of private financing of higher education by -- guess who -- students.

    If they'd all just do a little hedge fund managing on the side, I guess they wouldn't need to borrow money.

  •  And she walked in 10ft the snow 20 miles (23+ / 0-)

    every day 365 days a year to get to school

    Response: If you "got it" you wouldn't be a republican

    by JML9999 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:05:32 AM PDT

  •  and from what hole did this dirt tossing (12+ / 0-)

    mouldywarp come?

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:07:12 AM PDT

  •  In-state UNC tuition was very low back then (27+ / 0-)

    Taxpayers subsidized her college tuition.

    Virginia FoXX, secret socialist.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:08:58 AM PDT

  •  Apparently, she didn't take an Econ class. (19+ / 0-)

    Or she missed class they day they covered "inflation".

    "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson

    by rfall on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:09:34 AM PDT

    •  You would think (7+ / 0-)

      with their fetishes about privitization and their success at getting it inserted in all aspecs of education, she would realize the cost of tuition has skyrocketed past every other expense Americans deal with.  Why are these idiots elected?  People are stupid.  Even righties are having trouble paying for college.  Aren't they insulted by these morons?

      And she's good at appearing sane, I just want you to know. Winwood/Capaldi

      by tobendaro on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:17:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If so, they hide it well. (0+ / 0-)
        Aren't they insulted by these morons?

        "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson

        by rfall on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 10:42:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  apparently (0+ / 0-)

        or it seems to me at least that the GOP voter against their own interests prizes using their vote to vent their resentments-frustrations ( which would back up to a boiling point if they are passive aggressive types day to day)

        punishing with their vote - denying the other side what they want... my guess is if those people had more money in their lives they would ONLY be satisfied or happy relish  it because other people ( who they were superior to ) were going without and they were not....

        so if I distilled it down = I'd say SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS gone hyper, twisted and distorted has become the most important source of their 'pleasure-happiness'

        it's more important than their self interests

        V. P. Biden - introduced the "Romney Rule" good blow to Mitten's glass jaw - - just how much capital$$ could Romney et al make under the Romney/Ryan/Rove tax cut plan

        by anyname on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 01:19:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not just inflation. (5+ / 0-)

      Tuition increases have far outpaced the rate of inflation over the past few decades, even at public institutions.  Virginia Foxx is a moron.

  •  I think Virginia Foxx is a complete idiot, but I (6+ / 0-)

    also think some people don't take advantage of less costly alternatives such as community colleges and public universities.

    I see parents going bananas sending kids to super expensive private schools when they really don't have to.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

    by CTMET on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:09:45 AM PDT

    •  Public Universities have increased their prices (15+ / 0-)

      The right-wingers don't want to spend as much on universities and K-12 because they spend so much on prisons and welfare programs for business.

      The GOP is the party of mammon. They mock what Jesus taught.

      by freelunch on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:13:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But they don't cost $200000/year (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CTMET, Odysseus

        ...And while they do cost in the neighborhood of $80K/year if you count 4 years of dorm life, you're not supposed to put the entire cost of the degree on credit.  You're supposed to take out just enough loans that you can pay the rest through work, grants and personal savings.

        In that respect, I think this quote is being misinterpreted:  she doesn't have "little tolerance" for student loans, but little tolerance for unnecessarily large ones.

        Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

        by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:37:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry Caj, yes she does, as do most Republicans. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          expatjourno, sethtriggs
        •  You're assuming degree (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NWTerriD, expatjourno, sethtriggs

          If you just want a BA from a public university, in some states you can get away with $80K for the total cost (tuition, fees, books, room/board). But what about if the profession requires a masters degree? Or perhaps extended graduate work - say for medicine or law. That's going to up the cost and I think the chances of graduation diminish greatly for any student trying to go to a competitive law or medical school if they have to work during their studies.

          I disagree that her quote is being misinterpreted. She's comparing her experience in 1961 from UC to what students go through today. It's not a valid comparison.

          Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein

          by michael in chicago on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:58:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Odysseus
            If you just want a BA from a public university, in some states you can get away with $80K for the total cost (tuition, fees, books, room/board).
            In most states you can easily get away with far less.   For example, why are you including four years of room and board?  Room and board is usually way more expensive than living in town, and it's voluntary except maybe for the first year.

            In NY state, 80K will get you a complete full ride to one of the best public universities in the state, and you can easily make it 60K if you just bother to room with some friends after the first year.

            But what about if the profession requires a masters degree?
            If you think about this, you should see that it still won't cost you anywhere near $200,000.

            A master's degree is typically 2 more years, with higher tuition costs (e.g. $9000/year versus $7000/year) and no requirement to live in the dorms.

            Or perhaps extended graduate work - say for medicine or law.
            If we're going to talk about med school or law school, then we're no longer talking about the cost of "college," or people who take out giant loans for college.  Rep. Foxx was clearly talking about the cost of college.

            Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

            by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:25:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Not to mention doing two years at community (0+ / 0-)

              college first or going some place local.

              The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

              by CTMET on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:33:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Depends upon your state and aspirations (0+ / 0-)

              Here in Illinois the base tuition alone is $11,600/year for residents at U of I. Illinois State is not much better at $394/semester hour. And that's just tuition at resident rates. The majority of students today take longer than four years to complete a degree and many programs require five years. With the inevitable yearly increases that's easily already $50K in nothing but tuition - no fees.

              If I go to one of these schools, then I'm not living with my parents anymore as both are significant drives from my home. Hence, college also costs room and board. So to attend college I'm going to be living on campus for at least a year, then I still have to pay rent and food even with roommates. But now I also have to pay for transportation as well.

              Let's just say we're talking cost of college because if I went to law school, then I'd be taking out huge student loans to pay for law school, which happens on a university campus and happens to earn a college degree. So what is that then - not college? Should the middle class and poor rule out these occupations because the cost of college for these professions is more than a liberal arts degree?

              And a college student can easily make $60K? Checked the economy lately? They're lucky if they can get a job after they have the degree. You ever made $60K working minimum wage? If you did then you're working nearly full time. You ever worked minimum wage 30-40 hours a week while in your last two years of architecture program or while student teaching? That will help graduation rates I'm sure. Ever worked minimum wage jobs while doing an internship and holding down a full course load?

              Or better yet, some kid from the suburbs of Chicago who gets accepted to Northwestern or University of Chicago and due to their parents middle-class income doesn't get a scholarship. They're clearly a fool to go there and should instead go to some small state school instead of being stupid and taking out loans to attend these elite schools and perhaps better themselves.

              Rep. Foxx was in essence saying that those not affluent enough should learn their place and stop trying to move out of their social class, and doing so from the out of touch perspective of someone who graduated from college in 1961 when college costs were much lower, the minimum wage was worth more, and college students could find jobs easily.

              Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein

              by michael in chicago on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 06:10:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Transportation usually not a big deal (0+ / 0-)
                Hence, college also costs room and board. So to attend college I'm going to be living on campus for at least a year, then I still have to pay rent and food even with roommates. But now I also have to pay for transportation as well.
                I actually went to NIU, and never had to pay extra for transportation.  Like many universities NIU has a bus system that is free for students (actually paid out of your student fees,) and in any case off-campus apartments are only like a 10 minute walk from campus.
                And a college student can easily make $60K? Checked the economy lately? They're lucky if they can get a job after they have the degree.
                You seem to have completely misread what I wrote.  I said that you can bring an 80K college cost down to 60K by living off campus.

                You don't have to earn 60K a year to pay for a 60K tuition cost.   You can, for example, earn 10K a year, get 2K per year in Pell grants, and then take out $12,000 in loans.

                Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:01:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yep (0+ / 0-)

                  Misunderstood:

                  You seem to have completely misread what I wrote.  I said that you can bring an 80K college cost down to 60K by living off campus.
                  I read what you originally wrote as earn 60K over 4 years, or 15K a year. But I stand by my assertion that even this is hard to do today, especially in later years of a professional school and given the shortage of even minimum wage jobs - especially in a college town where thousands of kids are looking for one. 15K a year take home is basically full time hours a the minimum wage - assuming you find a job and don't take any vacation or sick days -  for four years. And let's remember that Republicans like Rep. Foxx do not support increasing the minimum wage which has fallen well behind inflation since she graduated in 1961.

                  Getting a Pell grant will depend upon your family's income for at least the first couple years before you can prove financial independence. And lets not forget that Republicans like Rep. Foxx are in favor of cutting Pell grant funding which is less today than years ago.

                  If you live off campus, that's great that NIU offers a bus. Not all do. Does it take you to work too? If one limits the job search to walkable distance or campus, then the odds of getting a job decrease significantly. This however falls under public transportation which Republicans have repeated supported cuts in funding for.

                  Just to be clear, I worked my way through so I understand how hard it is. Yes one can reduce the cost by working. But you also increase the odds of not graduating and/or extending the time it takes to graduate, which then extends the debt as well.

                  Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein

                  by michael in chicago on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 09:50:31 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
                    If you live off campus, that's great that NIU offers a bus. Not all do. Does it take you to work too?
                    Of course.  The Huskie bus line naturally has a few bus routes that go out to the hospital, out to the next town, and out to the grocery stores on the highway.  It is actually pretty typical of universities of this size:  where I work in NY, the university provides a bus system that also provides routes to adjoining towns, city hall, hospitals, main street, the mall etc.
                    If one limits the job search to walkable distance or campus, then the odds of getting a job decrease significantly.
                    I don't see why you think so.  Most of the shops and restaurants are near campus because that's where the business is.  Plus, a lot of part-time work is on campus, towit in the cafeteria, computer labs and so forth.  I worked multiple jobs through college and never had to walk off campus to do so.
                    This however falls under public transportation which Republicans have repeated supported cuts in funding for.
                    Regardless, those buses are there.

                    Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                    by Caj on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 08:28:05 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  If you are an out of state student they do (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NWTerriD, Odysseus

          Most people don't have the option of moving anywhere in the country they want to pursue an education. If the state school in their area is not a good fit for them they have no choice but to go somewhere else, and this can cost upwards of $20k.

          Community colleges are a good idea if they have a transfer agreement with the university a person wants to go to, if not I don't think it is generally worth it b/c they change requirements so often that classes can be irrelevant if you aren't locked into a program's requirements.

          For the majority of the population way, way too much is made about grants, they don't exist for the average student in the numbers people say they do. If you work to pay for a place to live most of the grants that are income dependent will be taken away or reduced.

          •  How is it not a good fit? (0+ / 0-)

            In Kansas, K-State has great ag and business programs.

            KU has fantastic liberal arts/premed, etc

            Every other state has similar arrangements -- the bases should be pretty much covered by state schools.

            My issue is moing out of state or going Ivy League and racking up studets loans for a non-earning-guaranteed degree.

            The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

            by jgkojak on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 10:18:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  or even worse going non Ivy league and paying (0+ / 0-)

              just as much just to say you didn't go to a "State School".

              The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

              by CTMET on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:25:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  a "non-earning guaranteed degree"? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sethtriggs

              what does that mean?

              no degree guarantees a job these days

              "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
              Real journalists know that lies do not bring "balance" to truth! (h/t elwior)

              by TrueBlueMajority on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:52:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's true, and jgkojak makes a good point (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TrueBlueMajority

                there are a lot of good intrastate exchange programs. I looked into the western ones when I considered using them and they were not too helpful.

                Many I looked into did not accept transfer students, so students that started out at community colleges, or took classes for work (like I did) are not eligible, also a lot (but certainly not all) of them required  a high GPA, like 3.5+, which is not realistic for most students. There are also limits on the degree you can pursue to even get accepted into the exchange, but this generally wouldn't be a major problem because they didn't appear to be too restrictive

        •  and what job, pray tell, in this economy, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NWTerriD, wonderful world

          is an unskilled 18 year-old supposed to be working at, that will pay enough to cover the "difference"? in va, even the community colleges charge close to $300 per credit hour for classes, and eventually you need to go to a 4 year school to complete your batchelors. the state schools (because of the severe drop in state funding) have jacked up their tuition rates dramatically.

          our state legislature has fixed all of va's real problems, so they have free time on their hands, hands they insert into women's lady parts. oh, did i mention that va is totally controlled by rabid, extreme rightwingnut republicans? i didn't? well, it is. education isn't a real high priority item for them, they'd rather concentrate on whatever it is your doing in your own bedroom.

          •  Agree with you there are still lots of problems. (0+ / 0-)

            Another one are the for Profit colleges that charge a ton and suck up alot of the aid, and don't do a very good job.

            The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

            by CTMET on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:36:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  what if you have no savings? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NWTerriD, sethtriggs
          But they don't cost...And while they do cost in the neighborhood of $80K/year if you count 4 years of dorm life, you're not supposed to put the entire cost of the degree on credit.  You're supposed to take out just enough loans that you can pay the rest through work, grants and personal savings.
          It certainly isn't the young persons fault if their parents failed to or were unable to save for their college. Further, how much can a young person save while in high school and/or earn while in college to offset the cost? Of course they could earn some money, but with a job that likely pays close to minimum wage and expenses on the order of 20k-80k a year, how much of a dent could they put in that?

          Simply living on minimum wage (ie room and board or an apartment and food) is difficult without even considering the additional tuition costs! Further, if one has a challenging major (ie an engineering or science field) working full time during the year and maintaining a good gpa would be quite difficult!

          In that respect, I think this quote is being misinterpreted:  she doesn't have "little tolerance" for student loans, but little tolerance for unnecessarily large ones.
          I would feel that this was more likely true if she backed up her statement with current information. For instance, if she considered the current cost of college and the current wages a college student can typically make and argue that they can get through without significant loans. She doesn't do that. She limits her argument to what was possible a number of years ago when low wage jobs had more buying power and college costs were much lower!

          How can someone in such an office not bother to inform themselves on such an important issue especially one they chose to make public statements about?

        •  Your lectures (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sethtriggs

          placing the blame on students are out of place. The $200,000 figure was thrown out by Foxx. OK, it's high. Let's say a student has "only" $50,000 in debt, or even $25,000. And they get out of school and can't find a job. Maybe their field, like an increasing number, requires a master's degree. So they add more debt.

          Yes, you can get a cheaper education. That's not the point. The point is that more and more non-wealthy students are priced out of the education they want, need and deserve.

          And your interpretation is wrong: she is using pulled-out-of-her-ass amounts to justify being against affordable student loans and to push the idea that students should be able to pay for college like they did 40 years ago. That's a non-starter.

          Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

          by anastasia p on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:40:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

      Sorry - but I know middle class kids who talk their parents into getting them a full ride student loan to an out of state school--

      I can get two yrs of Juco and 2 yrs of state school in KS for about 30K-- FOUR YEARS.  That means if you work and earn 10K a year (not hard) you could earn 30-40K in that 4 year period to fully pay for your schooling.

      Even halving that for a student loan leaves you with 15K in debt - very manageable.  

      Guess what - childrn of rich people get to enjoy 4 years at Harvard without working.

      That's kind ofthe way its always been.

      The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

      by jgkojak on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 10:26:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  children of poor people get to enjoy 4 years (0+ / 0-)

        at Harvard also.

        If you parents make less than $65,000 per year, your tuition is free.

        I paid less than $1000 per year when I was there in the 70s (of course the tuition was much lower then).  My student loan debt is from a midlife career change degree.

        "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
        Real journalists know that lies do not bring "balance" to truth! (h/t elwior)

        by TrueBlueMajority on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:54:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That isn't the point (0+ / 0-)

      She plucked her inflated figures out of nowhere to try to turn people against the reality that students today need more help. Sure, you can go to an overcrowded community college (because funds are being cut for those even as enrollment has skyrocketed) heavy on trade courses which lead to lower-wage jobs. But why are we funneling bright kids into dead ends?

      And using anecdotes about a relative handful of kids who go to "super expensive private schools" when for every one of those there are probably a couple of hundred families and students trying to swing tuition at a local public college or university is deceptive and doesn't address the issue.

      Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

      by anastasia p on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:36:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is also an exaggeration (0+ / 0-)
        Sure, you can go to an overcrowded community college (because funds are being cut for those even as enrollment has skyrocketed) heavy on trade courses which lead to lower-wage jobs.
        Yes, and you can also go to a well-regarded state university, also for far, far less than $200,000.

        Outside of California, you should be able to get a bachelor's at a state college for $60,000, and with Pell grants and part-time employment (full-time in summer) you don't have to put anywhere near that much money on loan.

        Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

        by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:41:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Cong. Foxx shows us every time she talks, ... (6+ / 0-)

    ... that she is a self-made woman.

    Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

    by TRPChicago on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:10:00 AM PDT

  •  Old people just do not get how things have (12+ / 0-)

    changed.  The world of opportunity she grew up in does not exist any more...and as a legislator, she is probably one of the ones responsible for the change.

    What a clueless bitch.

    "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

    by Sychotic1 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:10:15 AM PDT

  •  Nice Monty Python reference at the end. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, HappyinNM, Aunt Pat, expatjourno

    Trouble is. Goxx isn't twisted humor, she's a sick joke. There's a difference.

    The road to Hell is paved with pragmatism.

    by TheOrchid on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:11:35 AM PDT

  •  And if her comments represent (12+ / 0-)

    the quality of her education, then nuff said.

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:11:42 AM PDT

  •  I'd guess tuition at U.N.C. Chapel Hill... (7+ / 0-)

    was about $1,000 to $2,000 a year in 1961.

    Vicious old bag.

  •  When did she go to college? 1887? (12+ / 0-)

    This is the 21st century, lady. I'd suggest you do some basic research as to the level of college tuition today.

    •  A classroom full of Dounces (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aunt Pat, terrya

      Rep Foxx must have been in a class of her own, to make such a statement. Did she send her own children to school? It seems more and more we will hear from the right how they paid for their own schooling, but the truth is most schools were built with public funding to start with, and no Rep Foxx went to school while Men still dragged women around by the hair (no offense ladies, but 90% are better than Rep Foxx).

    •  Sadly, no. (6+ / 0-)

      There are plenty of people still around (some even on this thread) who went to college when tuition at many state and city schools was nominal. They were (gasp!) government subsidized!!

      It never fails to horrify me that tuition has increased, even at public colleges, by such astonishing amounts. I just checked the current tuition at my alma mater, and it is 350x what it was when I started there, less than 50 years ago.

      "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

      by sidnora on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:35:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even if you adjust for inflation (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sidnora

        The privates colleges 50 years ago were less than the public colleges today. For example, Berkeley is about double what Cornell was in the late 60s, inflation adjusted.

        "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

        by jfern on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:45:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe so, but as I noted elsewhere, (0+ / 0-)

          I could never have afforded to attend UNC back then. My brother went to Cornell six years after I started college, and my folks went heavily into debt to send him there.

          I had essentially free tuition, a small state scholarship that covered books and art supplies, and I lived with my parents until I graduated and found a job. Without those things I'd have been working my way through, and probably going to college at night.

          Let's not go into why I did what I did while my brother did what he did. It was a long time ago.

          So for people like me, getting into a city school was even better than getting a Pell grant now.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 09:47:55 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'd avoid whatever college she went to. Clearly (15+ / 0-)

    Even in today's prices the education she got isn't worth 5 pumpkins and a bag of turnips.

  •  Her attitude plays. (9+ / 0-)

    It plays very well with older folks, and a considerable number of young people too.  I meet them all the time.  You can say "Well, Psy, you're in South Carolina, so the people are just dumb", but I meet 40-somethings that feel the same way Foxx does.  What kills me is a few of them HAVE student debt.  They are working at a job below their education level and struggling to pay it off, but their attitude is "I'm paying it off, why can't everyone else?"

    We have to find a way to get people to see past their own little sphere.  It is so fucking hard to do.....I work at it every single day with the people around me.  It feels like it will never end.  Charity and charitable thought seems to have flown out the window, even though "religion" is seemingly everywhere.

    I tell high schoolers to do everything they can to avoid taking a loan for college....apply for every scholarship there is, take the lottery money, borrow from your family if you can, go to community college for 2 years, but do not take money from the banks.  Letting the banks into this racket is why the costs have soared.....schools know they'll get paid and there is no limit.

    •  Your right, (3+ / 0-)

      in the 1990s when I was paying off my student loans, one of the loans carried 10% on it.  It was another representative that had made a deal with the banks for student loans.  Unfortunately, if I made the exact payment it only covered the interest and the actual principle on the loan wasn't even touched with my payment.  I had to make double payments in order to try and bring the loan down.  It was insane.  Then once the loan was paid off it was announced in the news that this was a bad deal made by Washington and they were no longer going to allow student loans to have a 10% interest rate on them.  Great, that they turned it around, but in the meantime I was screwed out of a lot of money.

      Then, when all my loans were paid off, I got sick and screwed by the medical system and insurance.  And I wonder why sometimes I have a really bad attitude.

      "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

      by zaka1 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:57:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  private student loans (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PsychoSavannah

      You bring up a good point about borrowing from banks. I have a lot of student loan debt from graduate school, but every dollar of it is Direct Loans from the federal government. The interest rate is 6.25%, not great but not awful either.

      Students these days, even undergrads, are often maxing out what they can borrow through federal student loan programs and turn to private lenders (e.g.: Sallie Mae) to close the gap. They are paying interest rates anywhere from 8% to 12%, sometimes higher. I have a credit card with an 8.99% interest rate. When students are paying higher rates on education loans than I would on unsecured consumer debt that tells you something.

      Higher education is considered less a public good and more of a personal commodity, i.e.: The purpose of people getting college degrees isn’t for a better society/economy, it’s for individuals to increase their earning power – therefore individuals should pay for it.

      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

      by Joe Bob on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:28:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  She got the benefit of (10+ / 0-)

    work of the greatest generation. She now seeks to destroy what her parents made for her and the rest of the country.  She is headed into history as a footnote. A Congress woman who was too stupid to understand the policies she endorsed were detrimental to women and would actually hinder a woman advancing to the postion of Congressional legislator.
    I'm sorry but stupid just isn't enough.  Stupid Traitor would be a more accurate assessment. So would Rube, Dullard, Dolt, Imbicle, Idiot, Moron, Moran (tea party TM), Simplton, Asshat, and a veritable liltany of others. She disgusts me with the amount of stupid she manages to pack into one statement.

  •  Give me five bees for a quarter (7+ / 0-)

    you'd say, so that you can take the ferry to Morganville, which is what we called Shelbyville back then.

    It's to bad that they didn't have white onions because of the war, I'll be she had a lot of trouble accessorizing the yellow ones.

    It is better to be making the news than taking it; to be an actor rather than a critic. - WSC

    by Solarian on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:16:19 AM PDT

  •  Seems to me (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HappyinNM, Aunt Pat

    she needs to go back to school.  Continuing education? Ought to be a requirement.

    Be the change you want to see in the world. -Gandhi

    by DRo on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:16:35 AM PDT

  •  THIS says it all-- AGAINST KATRINA AID -> (14+ / 0-)

    In September 2005, Foxx was one of 11 members of Congress to vote[7] against the $51 billion aid package to victims of Hurricane Katrina. She was also one of only 33 Republicans to vote against the extension of the Voting Rights Act in July 2006.

    •  Foxx has long been in the #1 spot (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mollydog, smiley7

      on my list of Republicans I want thrown out of Congress.  There are no words to describe the depths of both stupid and mean that characterize that woman.

      "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

      by NWTerriD on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:01:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sounds like she got what she paid for. (9+ / 0-)

    If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

    by marykk on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:18:13 AM PDT

  •  The only thing more sad than (18+ / 0-)

    the fact that this ignorant woman has a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives is the fact a plurality of her district is dumb enough to put her there.  What better argument for increased access to higher education can there be?

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by Ms Johnson on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:20:51 AM PDT

  •  the people that vote her in... (8+ / 0-)

    what kind of world do they live in?

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." - Albert Einstein

    by pickandshovel on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:20:53 AM PDT

  •  The old school story... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, Aunt Pat

    And I bet she had to walk 10 miles to school daily...shoeless... uphill BOTH ways...in 10ft of snow YEAR LONG...carrying her brothers (all 5) on her shoulders...with only an uncooked potato for weekly lunch...

    More importantly: I wonder if she agreed with Bachmann that job creation would be helped by repealing the minimum wage law? Because of course these students could then get MANY more jobs at $1.50/hr to pay for their tuition...

  •  It's Not Her Fault (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, TrueBlueMajority

    The world has changed but she hasn't caught on yet. When she was going to college, Blondie was considered edgy entertainment.

    This head movie makes my eyes rain.

    by The Lone Apple on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:21:41 AM PDT

  •  Talk about being stuck in the 60's (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat

    My spouse and I put ourselves through school too without borrowing money. Flashforward to the 90's when our daughter went to college. We saved money for her college but she ended up going to a private school because of the type of program she was in- one year was $$23,000 just for room board and books! Like most 'compassionate' conservatives shes's clueless!

  •  Rep. Marie Antoinette (7+ / 0-)

    should be forced to live like my son is for a day or two.  He worked as a part time usher through college - making $8 an hour - and graduated with $30,000+ in loans from Columbia College Chicago.  That was two years ago. He has had exactly one interview, despite applying for jobs constantly, including at Wal Mart, etc.  No offers.  Meanwhile, the interest mounts.  And he grows despondent.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25hef8mb0SQ&feature=youtu.be

    by KibbutzAmiad on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:23:11 AM PDT

  •  Great another too (3+ / 0-)

    old and had it too good representative that doesn't understand that in the last sixty years since she was in college that costs have increased while good paying jobs with security are on the decline.  I'm sure in her day she was also able to get healthcare and all her dental work done by offering her doctor and dentist a couple of chickens for payment, and if it was really expensive treatment butter and eggs in addition to the chicken made up for the costs.

    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolution­ary act. " George Orwell

    by zaka1 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:23:47 AM PDT

  •  By all means virigina lets price people completely (6+ / 0-)

    out of college. Its not like we've already fallen behind large parts of the rest of the world in higher education or anything.

    "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth." --- Bill Hicks

    by voroki on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:24:34 AM PDT

  •  This diary raises many questions. (5+ / 0-)

    1. What universe is this woman residing in?

    2. Wait. G. Gordon Liddy is still on the air? How about Father Coughlin? Is he still on the air, too? Paul Harvey?

    3. Virginia Foxx? I'm pretty sure someone by that name performed at my bachelor party.

    4. Is this woman, perchance, a c-word? Yes, an ugly word, I agree, but if the dick fits...

    5. How does this alleged human keep getting re-elected?

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:26:27 AM PDT

  •  Virginia Foxx is 68 years old. (11+ / 0-)

    I am 64 years old. I went to Brooklyn College. When I started there tuition was $8/semester. When I finished it was $35. I'm willing to bet that it wasn't much more than that for her.

    THat said, I find it difficult to believe that Virginia Foxx went to college at all.

    "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

    by sidnora on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:26:29 AM PDT

    •  Tuition/R&B was ~$1000 a year (6+ / 0-)

      ..for her at Univ. of North Carolina in 1962.

      NC Residents    Out-of-State Residents
      Tuition & Fees    $7,008    $26,834
      Room    $5,520    $5,520
      Board    $3,950    $3,950
      Books & Supplies    $1,150    $1,150
      Travel    $750    $1,404
      Health Insurance    $926    $926
      Loan Fees    $28    $28
      Personal    $1,328    $1,328
      Total    $20,660    $41,140

      Today she'd be spending 20x that at least.

      •  I just checked the current tuition at BC. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aunt Pat, Odysseus, Joe Bob

        For instate students, it's about $2800/semester (the school has no student housing), tuition & fees. Even that is 350x what I paid.

        I would never have been able to afford Chapel Hill, even back then. In fact, I had a $175/year state scholarship that covered my books and art supplies, and I lived at home until I graduated. I did some summer jobs and on-campus jobs for pocket money, but even though my family had no money, I didn't have to borrow.

        "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

        by sidnora on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:43:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  My daughter is (4+ / 0-)

    using student loans. Even if this asshole disapproves.

    Mitt Romney's Like A Box Of Chocolates. You Never Know What You're Gonna Get!

    by kitebro on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:27:25 AM PDT

  •  Ok Virginia, (6+ / 0-)

    Here is a clue.  Through the legislation and business practices promoted by your party the college experience has been demoted to money making scam instead of education to better a person and improve our country.  The whole loan thing?  Instituted by Wall Street to make money.  Foolish?  You wanted it and probably voted to allow the law to permit the rip off of our country's students.  Now you are going to criticize and demean the people supporting your abhorent system of wealth gaining more wealth off the backs of the underclasses a system you want and very likely benefit from.  FU.

    And she's good at appearing sane, I just want you to know. Winwood/Capaldi

    by tobendaro on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:28:48 AM PDT

  •  I hate student loans worse than her... (6+ / 0-)

    I want public higher education for the public.  I want to build classrooms and libraries, not prisons.  
    I want tuition forgiveness for nurses, doctors, teachers, social workers and police.

    I want college sports that are pickup games,  not hunger games.

    But if we're going to work our way through college,  I want a minumum wage that automatically tracks inflation.

    It's not a fake orgasm; it's a real yawn.

    by sayitaintso on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:29:17 AM PDT

  •  I have little tolerance for Virginia Fox (4+ / 0-)

    and Fox News, for that matter.

    Not very progressive.

    But there it is.

    But Virginia is an enemy of the people and should be treated as enemy, lest we fall to her influence and that of others like her.

    If history demonstrates anything it shows that campaigning and voting are necessary but insufficient. If you aren't part of publicly visible, uncompromising, irresistible dissent, you are still part of the problem.

    by Words In Action on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:30:54 AM PDT

  •  Times have changed the costs (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, Aunt Pat, Odysseus

    When I attended a private, church-related, liberal arts college in the late 1960s, tuition was $400 a year. And I had a $150 scholarship to help out. Maybe that's the kind of situation Rep. Foxx is thinking of.
    Needless to say, there are no deals like that any
    more.

    Join the 48ForEastAfrica Blogathon for the famine in east Africa: Donate to Oxfam America

    by JayC on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:31:27 AM PDT

  •  You can give republicans an education, but... (7+ / 0-)

    you can't make them smart.  

    Fox, West, and, in fact, the entire GOPer Congress--and their presidential wannabees are living proof of that.

  •  When my daughter attended UNC-Wilmington (7+ / 0-)

    twenty years ago, tuition there was about $375.00 per quarterly semester.

    Virgie Foxx likely got it much cheaper 20+ years earlier than that.

    One thing is for sure, Virgie didn't get her money's worth.  Didn't learn a darn thing.  

  •  Little tolerance for not having a 90% top tax rate (7+ / 0-)

    so we can afford to have college cheap enough to work and pay our way through!

    -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power" (with snark of course)!

    by dopper0189 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:37:49 AM PDT

  •  Just another fine example of Randian insensitivity (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat, OldDragon, GOPGO2H3LL

    Never promote men who seek after a state-established religion; it is spiritual tyranny--the worst of despotism. It is turnpiking the way to heaven by human law, in order to establish ministerial gates to collect toll. John Leland

    by J Edward on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:44:50 AM PDT

  •  A proposal for Foxx (6+ / 0-)

    She got the benefit of taxpayer funded education, and did not have to pay much from her own pocket.

    Maybe Foxx should return that cost of her education that was subsidized by the taxpayer.

    Then we can talk.

    Until then, she's got nothing to say.

    ...someday - the armies of bitterness will all be going the same way. And they'll all walk together, and there'll be a dead terror from it. --Steinbeck

    by Seldom Seen on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:45:51 AM PDT

  •  I don't have a lot of tolerance for Virginia Foxx. (5+ / 0-)

    I hope she's bounced from office soon, but with the Goopers jerrymandering the US House, I don't have much hope.

    "Mistress of the Topaz" is now available in paperback! Link here: http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/single.php?ISBN=1-55404-900-8

    by Kimball Cross on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:46:14 AM PDT

  •  That hag was a college president (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aunt Pat

    Now, I don't know what the fact that Virginia Foxxxx was president of Mayland Community College says about Mayland ... but I don't suppose that the students of Mayland graduate without debt. And, further, I don't suppose that they did so when Foxxxxx was president a million or so years ago. I wonder how much Foxxxx made as president of Mayland, and I wonder whether she has every considered that her salary as president was made possible through student loans.

  •  Sigh My Rep Sigh (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno, Mollydog, GOPGO2H3LL, howd

    Unfortunately she is my Representative not that I claim her mind you. We do have a good Progressive candidate trying to win the Democrat primary to go after her in Elisabeth Motsinger.

    "A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." Oscar Wilde

    by michelewln on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:51:59 AM PDT

    •  You SO have my sympathy. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mollydog

      As I mentioned above, Foxx has long had the #1 spot on my list of Rs I want thrown out of Congress. I'll donate to her opponent.

      "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

      by NWTerriD on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:07:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My son attends community college (5+ / 0-)

    Which is about as cheap as you are going to get.  For this semester alone his classes are $618.  His books were $370, and because he is in cosmetology, the materials ran me $910 for the base materials, $135 for the uniforms, and $170 for the related materials.  That is only one semester of three semesters.  Classes start at 7:30 and end at 3:30 with a significant homework requirement.  

    Sure he can work part time, but he couldn't support himself and take classes on what he gets paid at Taco Bell.

    I can't imagine what kids at an actual university do for money if they don't have parents to support them.

    "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

    by Sychotic1 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:53:55 AM PDT

  •  Virginia Foxx graduated with a.... (4+ / 0-)

    Bachelors Degree in
    1961
    Cost of a first-class stamp:          $0.04
    Cost of a gallon of regular gas:   $0.31
    Cost of a dozen eggs:                 $0.57
    Cost of a gallon of Milk:                 $0.49

    Graduate/Masters in
    1968
    Cost of a first-class stamp:         $0.05 ($0.06 as of 1/7/68)
    Cost of a gallon of regular gas:   $0.34
    Cost of a dozen eggs:                 $0.53
    Cost of a gallon of Milk:                 $1.07

    Ed.D in
    1972
    Cost of a first-class stamp:         $0.10
    Cost of a gallon of regular gas:   $0.36
    Cost of a dozen eggs:                 $0.52
    Cost of a gallon of Milk:                 $1.20

    Yeah things are totally the same now...

    You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough. -Mae West

    by COwoman on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:58:59 AM PDT

  •  Ouch! (5+ / 0-)

    This diary made me go check what the current room & board is at my alma mater, Auburn University

    Tuition & dorm for instate resident $18690 per year

    I attended beginning in 1977, and it was $960 per year

    Florida sucks at many things, but the Bright Futures Scholarship program for instate universities is saving my sanity and wallet...my son will be finishing his sophomore year this semester at the local CC with zero debt leaving the last two years to be financed with schollys, grants and the smallest loans possible.

    Da boy really wanted to go away for the last two years, but is coming to terms with the economic realities and will finish at the local branch of UCF so all we have to cover is tuition and fees

    Barn's burnt down -- now I can see the moon. Masahide

    by bws on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:00:01 AM PDT

    •  I checked my alma mater too. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bws

      In my senior year, 1992, total costs (tuition, fees, living expenses) were about $19,000.

      Fast forward to 2012: $56,000

      Granted, both in my case and today nobody pays the top rate unless your family is very well off. For a middle income family, grants from the college would cover about 2/3 of the cost. Still, that would leave a student and family today trying to figure out how to come up with about $60,000.

      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

      by Joe Bob on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:49:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Look, Foxx is among the dumbest people (10+ / 0-)

    in the US.  She embarrasses herself every time she opens her mouth.  She is a disgusting and pathetic human being.

    She is also full of shit.  Here is how to lie and put down others - Demonize the president/Democrats/ and the young American college student whose country has become unforgiving and cruel beyond measure with regard to getting & paying for a degree.

    My name is thomas.  I put myself through college and now have an MPA from a major University - all on my own.  No one ever helped me.  I had very little student debt and paid it off almost immediately.  I became a successful, affluent & productive American who is now retired with a large retirement fund and a big house and a new Mercedes - and I travel to Europe every year.  I did this all by myself!

    The above is a half-truth, but mostly a Lie.

    Here is the truth - My name is thomas.  I started college before going into the USAF.  Completed a few classes.  I applied for "Operation Bootstrap" while in the Air Force and was given a year of leave with pay to work on my Bachelor's.  I graduated after getting out of the USAF.  While working in state government I applied for and was granted a year of leave with pay to work on & complete my Master's.  During some of those years in school I was a single parent with a young child.  I had the advantage of the base nursery at low cost.  I had help from many others in babysitting when needed while I went to classes.  I did take out some student loans.  It took me years to pay off my small student loans because my civilian career was in social services = low salary.  Once, I begged the IRS to allow me more time before they offset my paycheck to pay off the loans.  I finally paid off my loans.  My education was probably 1/10th the cost of the same education now.  I have no retirement fund.  I live on SSD (avg. pmt), 30% VA Disability $378.00 monthly) and a small state pension  ($480.00 monthly).

    Virginia Foxx is a nutcase and an asshole. She is a fraud and she lies all the time.

    •  I wish more people would acknowledge the help (4+ / 0-)

      they've received, as you have done.

      Like you, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. I went to college, worked hard, got good grades, graduated, got hired at a couples, and did well. I'm still in a career on an upward trajectory, because of the good decisions I made.

      Except ... my parents paid for a large part of my education, which they were able to do because they themselves had good, steady careers as public school teachers and had bachelor's and master's degrees from a state university. I received some federal grants as well, and I had Stafford loans at well-below-market interest rates. I was able to graduate with $17,000 in student loans--not a small number, but definitely manageable. The first few months out of school were rocky, but my parents were able to cushion the blow, first through opening their house to me and then by paying the first month's rent to help me out a bit. I did buy my own house at 23 after landing a job. This job was at a private liberal arts college, and my home mortgage was guaranteed through my employer in a program designed to attract and retain administration and faculty. This college is private, yes, but is able to offer administrative positions, mortgage guarantees, and decent (although not stellar) salaries in part because it receives tuition dollars that come through federally subsidized loans and because its academic programs receive federal grant money.

      I suppose I could go on, but I don't need to--most of us here know that we're not islands and that, even though we work hard and earn good livings, we owe at least a part of our success to smart public policy.

      •  I give you so much credit (0+ / 0-)

        for achieving all that you have.  I also honor you for being grateful and graceful about all of the help you have received from your parents and others.  I cannot wrap my mind around the Tea Party worldview (now the Republican party platform) that all government is bad - all regulations are bad - that consumer protections and public policies that benefit the society as a whole and the general welfare are "government intrusion" and hurt the economy.  That has been proven to be ludicrous.  Such policies uplift everyone.  

  •  and don't give her constituents a pass, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, Odysseus, expatjourno

    it's not like they didn't know what kind of idiot they were electing to represent them in congress. true, even idiots deserve representation, but i think, at the moment, they are being overly represented.

    i too graduated without debt, of course, this was in the mid-70's, at a state school. in the 34 years since i graduated, tuition has increased by 900% at that same school, well beyond anything that could possibly be accounted for by just inflation. of course, when rep. foxx was attending college, you could pay tuition with empty soda bottles, or so i've heard. given the education she apparently received, as witnessed by her never ending stream of blatant stupidity, she got what she paid for.

  •  40 years ago almost every person (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, expatjourno

    who wanted to go through college could do so by doing just what she did.  Back then it was the norm.  There were jobs and the tuition was about 1/10th of what it is now.

    Because there are no jobs, even that college education isn't a guarantee that you can get a better job than flipping hamburgers at McDonalds.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:03:13 AM PDT

  •  I could say that she is a heartless idiot (4+ / 0-)

    But she's a Republican. It's kinda redundant.

    With Liberty and Justice for the 1%

    by wrights on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:04:53 AM PDT

  •  Did tuition rates quadruple over the weekend? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Odysseus
    I'm not sure how a full-time college student is supposed to come up with $50,000 per year, unless it's selling things Virginia Foxx probably doesn't approve of.
    I'm not sure either, but why would a full-time college student need to come up with $50,000 per year?  College doesn't cost anywhere near that much money.

    Unless you intentionally go to one of the most expensive schools in the country, you will not need to come up this kind of money for school.

    Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

    by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:05:00 AM PDT

  •  Here, in Quebec, people have been rioting (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno, Odysseus, Joe Bob

    in the streets over tuition increases.

    Tuition at places like Concordia, McGill, Universitie de Montreal is rising quite a bit: from $2100 a year to $3800 a year over four years.

    Imagine if American college students had cared as much...

  •  Does Ms Fox even know the cost of tuition? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OldDragon, expatjourno, Odysseus

    She looks about as OLD as I am or even older so does she think it costs the same amount of money to go to college as it did back in OUR day?  

    I paid for the total tuition for the college of MY choice by myself...  every penny of it and I took out only ONE loan for about 1100$ and worked to get the rest but MY tuition wasn't nearly as costly as it is these days... for MY old school.  in fact when I was in MY 3rd year tuition was more than doubled (mine stayed the same)... it went UP (for incoming students) again in my 4th year... lucky for me MINE stayed the same.  Recently I looked at the cost of 4 years at the college I went to back in the day and now I wouldn't even be able to afford one semester let alone cover the cost of 4 years... because what I paid for 4 years of that college is now less then the cost of one semester.

    Is Ms Fox aware of how the cost of a college education has doubled and tripled and then doubled and tripled again since we went to college?  Or is she just another blow hard big mouth republican who doesnt give a damn  about anyone but herself and her re-elections to that cushy job of hers...paid for by the taxpayers she belittles and dismisses as lazy?

    "Orwell was an optimist"

    by KnotIookin on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:18:12 AM PDT

  •  Virginia Fox = FAIL (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno, Noamjunior

    I hear this over and over......"when I was in college I didn't need all the loans".  Don't they get it that it's no longer 1950-60 and college is out of reach for most without student loans?

  •  So UNC was cheap in the late 50s. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno, Odysseus, gramofsam1, Joe Bob

    That's nice for her.  But it's not 1958 anymore.  I went to a state school for college in the early 2000s, worked two part time jobs at the university for each of the four years, got some scholarship assistance, and was lucky enough to have a dad who worked overtime at his physically strenuous, blue-collar job to pay for some of my tuition bill, and I still graduated with $20K in student loan debt.  And I did not live an extravagant lifestyle during college.

    Now the cost at my college for an in-state resident who lives on-campus is $24K per year.

    And I don't know about other types of grad/professional schools, but law school was a real killer.  The cost of attending (3 years) when I went was north of $160K.

  •  A few points to consider: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno

    Virginia Foxx betrays her ignorance of reality on a daily basis.  What she fails to realize is that the current mess is largely government made, and the responsibility of politicians on both sides of the aisle who have made the situation the mess that it is.

    A few points about what I think is wrong with the current model:

    1. Not everyone needs to go to college.  One of the biggest problems we have in education right now is trying to prepare everyone for a future they don't need and in many cases don't want.  I see so many kids trying to go to college as a teacher, and when I ask them what they want to do, they don't know.  What's worse are the kids who really want to do construction, or auto maintenance, or something else like that, who are forced to go to college by their parents because the parents want something else.  There are literally thousands of post high school training schools that do a much better job preparing students for the reality of the working world, but are rarely presented as options to students, and when they are they aren't given nearly the facetime that colleges and universities are.  I still get steamed every year when I my class is taken over by the guidance office to tell kids how to pay for a four year school that in many cases kids don't need or want to go to.  

    2. The number of students going to college, largely as a result of politicians, teachers, parents and community leaders telling them that they need to do so, has exploded.  As demand for a product goes up, so does the price.  Typically this results in a "sweet spot" wherein the market naturally reaches a point of optimum gain while giving out services to an optimum group of people.  That hasn't happened with college, and a lot of the reason for that is the borrowing industry, coupled with the above mentioned groups, telling kids that they need to go to college at all costs because they are lost without a college education.  This feeds into the cycle of higher demand leading to higher and higher costs.  Because no matter how high costs get, students and their families are willing to borrow tremendous sums of money to make sure they don't fall behind.  This a horrible trap that literally millions of families have fallen into and I am convinced it is one of the reasons our economy is still struggling to get out of the hole we're in.  

    3. The above happens because in many cases, families ignore lower cost ways to send their kids to college, like community and junior colleges for the first two years.  Many of those schools have agreements with four year universities that offer guaranteed acceptance after two years with a certain GPA.  Going to a four year school for all four years isn't going to be a reality for everyone.  There is no reason why students can't go to a juco first and then transfer.  It's a much more cost-effective way of going to school.  And again, many students who want to pursue a technical career should look into vocational training programs instead of college anyway.  It tends to be cheaper and much better for their careers in the short and long run.

    4. States and the Federal government have to do a better job finding ways to offer affordable tuition.  But that doesn't just mean more general funding (although that certainly helps), but also offering work scholarships that reward public service with college tuition at public colleges and universities.  The military already has a spectacular deal in place for members who serve a minimum 90 days of active duty, with the max benefit for those who serve at least 3 years active.  Servicemen and women who reach that 3 year mark are eligible for full tuition at the rate of the most expensive public university in their state, plus E5 BAH.  (Thank you Senator Webb!)  We should establish a similar deal for all forms of public service.  Students who don't know what they want to do out of high school can and should opt for a few years of some sort of service while they grow up a little bit and get some life experience.  

    Personally, I would like to require that every student coming out of high school do SOMETHING in the form of public service before going to college or the work world.  To me mandatory civil service, whether done in the military, the Peace Corps, Americorps, etc, etc ... should be an integral part of every American's life.  It would go a long way towards endearing Americans to others who have different backgrounds, different beliefs, and come from other places.  It also reminds people that we are all a part of this country and have some responsibility to do some of the heavy lifting for it.  Finally, as a reward for it, we offer free public education at the post-secondary level for everyone who participates.  We could pay for every single student in America to get a paid post-secondary education with 15% of the current military budget.  Quite personally, I would much rather buy books than bombs with my tax money.  

    A desperate disease requires a dangerous remedy.

    by Guy Fawkes on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:37:34 AM PDT

    •  College isn't a trade school. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Guy Fawkes

      Higher education is designed to enrich a person as a human being, not train him or her for a job. People who decide to go to college should go with that in mind.

      Unfortunately, that is not how higher education has been sold to the public. As a result, too many people go to college who really shouldn't.

      Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

      by expatjourno on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:56:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's like Ron Paul's chickens. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    expatjourno, wonderful world

    Sure, there might have been a time when a person could pay their doctor in chickens, or work their way through college without borrowing anything.

    Those times are gone.  These people are just not living in this century.

  •  The stupidest thing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GOPGO2H3LL

    is that there is a large state university in her district!  I used to work there (escaped, thank heavens).  Anything she could do to undermine the largest employer in her district, she found.  What a turd.

  •  And yet this vile hellhobbit (0+ / 0-)

    believes that Exxon requires taxpayer support.

    Fuck that troll, and may she rot in hell.

    Obama is at war with radical anti-American terrorists. The radical GOP is at war with American women. Take that and run with it DNC, you inept fucking pikers.

    by GOPGO2H3LL on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:47:36 AM PDT

  •  U.C.L.A. cost $234 per quarter when I was there. (0+ / 0-)

    It now costs $4,228. And, because financial aid is more limited for public schools these days, it is more expensive for a middle-class family to send a child to U.C.L.A. than it is to send one to Harvard.

    Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

    by expatjourno on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:47:53 AM PDT

  •  Beautiful (0+ / 0-)
    But I guess back when Virginia Foxx went to college the tuition was five pumpkins and a bag of turnips, and if she could come up with it then, surely an 18-year-old can come up with $200,000 now.
    Just beautiful.

    The only "left" the Democrats have given us is the last couple of decades is a Southpaw President

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:52:17 AM PDT

  •  The Navaho had the Code-Talkers in WWII (0+ / 0-)

    North Carolina has an Ass-Talker in Congress

    The only "left" the Democrats have given us is the last couple of decades is a Southpaw President

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:03:02 AM PDT

  •  I am more shocked (0+ / 0-)

    That V Foxx went to college much less graduated!

  •  she hasnt' been the same (0+ / 0-)

    since her husband, red, died

  •  Simple Answer -- Summer jobs that pay $50K (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GOPGO2H3LL

    I'm Ms. Foxx will get right on that.

    A weapon that is also a treasure is certain to be used.

    by wonderful world on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:08:21 AM PDT

  •  That ugly bonehead needs to retire - YESTERDAY!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GOPGO2H3LL
  •  She looks like a sweet woman to me (0+ / 0-)

    but obviously lacking brain power. Looks cannot reveal what's inside a skull. As is often the case, Neanderthals wish upon others the depravasions that they experienced. We should enlighten the madam explaining that our vision is to improve over generations not devolve. Even when tuition is affordable the contortions one must go through to procure it are time-consuming and life-sapping. Paperwork and administrations now take up almost our entire lives. Students should concentrate on their studies, perhaps working one part time job maximum. College costs should automatically be low, meaning affordable, and results-oriented so as to avoid mismanagement of public monies. Students who work in their chosen field should be rewarded by funded tuition. Their knowledge benefits all of us (except MBA's which is akin to acquiring the principles of jerkmanship) If our hard-earned taxes weren't wasted on wars and subsidies for mega corporations, this would not be a problem. Sensible people need to reach out to the kind that vote for the Virginia Foxes of the world or we'll all go down together. That is if these half-wits are allowed to take hold of the reins of power. Talk to them kindly, but challenge them. ie: by asking how these theories should be put into policy for everyone to adhere to. Listen first then offer a well-thought out suggestion. Try to gain consensus through communication. Hopefully the ludicrousness of facing their notions as becoming a reality will shake some sense into them. If they just can't see it then go into their face and tell them their ideas are full of shit (they notice the visceral)

  •  There ARE no opportunities. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smiley7, Joe Bob

    One, if there were growing opportunities out there, students suffering from student loan debt would not care as much.

    My fiancee works as an elementary school counselor. She wanted to serve society. They haven't had a raise of any kind of cost of living adjustment for three years. She's working just as hard, and she's more experienced, but she keeps earning less and less. The price of every other good in the economy keeps going up, but the income for skilled professional labor continues to go down.

    I have two professional degrees. I worked hard and graduated near the top of my class. The schools sold loans to students by lying to them about their income prospects. 'm not talking about those for-profit scam schools. I'm talking about respected private law schools ranked in the top 30 in the country. They massaged the numbers and listed the median starting salary as $150,000. I graduated in the top third of the class, and I'm making around $10,000 a year along with every other graduate I know. Most of the work I do is unpaid labor that requires multiple advanced degrees. That's not a misprint. Students are at the poverty level even though they graduated in the top third of a top 30 law school.

    Oh, and they now list their median starting salary as $160,000. The reporting methodology is blatantly dishonest. Students are being deceived by the institutions that are supposed to be helping them. And while the earnings potential of students continued to fall during the years I was in school, tuition rates skyrocketed each year, adding tens of thousands more to repay over the life of the loan.

    Two, baby boomers struggling to repay their mortgages can walk away from debt by abandoning their their homes. Millennials crushed under student loan debt can't even discharge their debt through bankruptcy. They will carry that debt into retirement: a lifetime of indentured servitude because they tried to avail themselves of our country's oppoturtunities. Meanwhile, the home mortgage interest deduction caps out at $1,000,000. The student loan interest deduction is $2500 per year. Again, not a misprint. Baby boomers never had to pay taxes on the cost of borrowing to finance their McMansions. Millennials will have to pay taxes on the vast majority of the cost of borrowing to educate themselves enough to be productive citizens. Oh, and they won't actually earn anything more than the guys serving drinks and checking coats at their law school graduations. So, even though they study hard and work harder than their parents' generation, they'll be living near poverty level their entire adult lives.

    Fuck you, Ms. Foxx.

  •  The cost of education (0+ / 0-)

    It was possible BR (before Reagan) to put yourself through a state college by working part time.  But AR (after Reagan) it became increasingly difficult to earn enough to even afford a community college education.  Times changed in large part because of failed Republican policies. The cost of education went up as wages went down.  Do Republican politicians and voters really not get that?

  •  OUch - she's partly correct (0+ / 0-)

    $50,000 a year?
    out 1
    The University of KS instate tuition is about 12K

    So yes, it would be hard to earn enough for tuition room and bd (8/hr *40hrs*50wks=16000)

    But-- graduating w/50000 - 200K of debt?  Unless you're a doctor, there is abolutely no excuse.

    And sorry, if you can't work a part time job and go to school, again, no sympathy.

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

    by jgkojak on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 10:14:51 AM PDT

  •  I went to college at a Texas land grant school. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Joe Bob

    The tuition was at that time $50 a semester and my most expensive book was $20.   We almost rioted when word came out that tuition was going to $75/semester.

    I worked part time in the dorm office which paid half my room and board.   My dad sent me $100 a month and I had access to a credit card for emergencies only.

    I graduated in 1964 with no debt.   Rep Fox is about my age or a little older and I'll bet her school expenses were similar.

    How out of touch with the real world is this woman and still being elected?    She's proving nothing except that she needs to be anywhere but where our national policies are being made.

    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by maybeeso in michigan on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 10:27:19 AM PDT

  •  I had no idea that she was born in the Bronx and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smiley7

    that her maiden name is "Palmieri".

    How did she end up down here in North Carolina?

    Can we send her back to the Bronx?

    Please?

    “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    by LamontCranston on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:04:12 AM PDT

  •  You people just do not (0+ / 0-)

    get it. If we went back to funding our universities so the cost would be affordable for students like they were in the past how could men like Romney afford a car elevator? You commies here at the Great Orange Satan just do not have your priorities straight.

    Join the War on Thinking. Watch Fox News- John Lucas

    by Jlukes on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:28:39 AM PDT

  •  Like so many of her Repuglican brethren, (0+ / 0-)

    she likes to live in the past. If she had any sense at all of what an education costs today, she might think differently. I am currently taking masters course and each 4.5 credits cost me $2400 without books. For the required 54 credits, it will cost me over $24,000. And that is without room and board and meals, etc. as most kids would need, unless they live in a cardboard box and eat Ramen noodles every day. Based on what I've seen of this woman on the legislative floor, she is hateful and ignorant and should not be considered representative of anyone.

  •  Be Fair (0+ / 0-)

    Back when she went to school it cost twenty seven cents a semester. And you had to walk uphill both ways.

    Who the fuck elects these idiots?

    F*ck those idiots and the voters they rode in on.

    by roninkai on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:40:32 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, because every 18 year old can make $60K (0+ / 0-)

    ...a year to pay tuition, books, and living expenses by working part time down at the fucking malt shop, record store, or by pumping gas.  And they can do that while making the grades necessary to get into graduate school which is almost required these days if you want the kind of salary your parents and grandparents would have earned with a bachelors.  

  •  Does no one qualify for a scholarship these days? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Caj

    When I was young -- and not too bright, even then -- I qualified for a scholarship that paid all of my tuition costs.  

    My parents paid for my room and board (about $560/year when I started; about $760 my final year) and I paid my activity fee ($12 - $15 each semester) and the cost of my books (under $50 per semester, and the book store bought back any books we did not want to keep, paying maybe 75% of the original charge for them).  

    I worked summers in a factory (getting union wages) and worked in the residence hall (reception desk; cafeteria) a few hours each day and also did work for people in the community (who contacted the Student Aid office and paid specified hourly rates) a few hours each month.  This provided all the money needed for clothing, personal expenses, dates, etc.

    Obviously, tuition and room-and-board charges have risen significantly since then, and it is more difficult today to pay those charges.  But none of the comments here have mentioned scholarships, and I am wondering why.  Are scholarships no longer available, or are today's students even dumber, and less able to qualify for a scholarship, than I was?  

    As for Ms. Foxx -- and I am certainly not one of her most ardent supporters and don't live in her state, in any case -- she is correct about at least one thing:  we are guaranteed the right to pursue happiness.  And while she derives happiness for acting small-minded and mean-spirited, certainly she is acting "American" as she chases her dream of happiness.  

    •  The name of the object doesn't match with the name (0+ / 0-)

      of the domain.

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
      But none of the comments here have mentioned scholarships, and I am wondering why.
      I notice that people are quick to point to $80,000 college costs in order to justify an $80,000 student loan, when in fact loans are only supposed to cover enough that you can pay the rest through other means, such as grants, work, scholarships etc.

      You also mention working summers and part-time during the year.  Now that college is so expensive, it's more important than ever for students to work to cover part of their expenses, so that their loan amount is small.

      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

      by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:30:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I just had this conversation with Yves Smith at (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Philip Woods

    nakedcapitalism.  College costs have exploded.  Virginia Foxx and I are the same age, she's just two and a half months older, so I can speak to her crabbed opinions.  When I went to college, middle class families with prudent financial habits could write checks for college.  Even imprudent families, like my own, could cover the costs with reasonable loans.  Tuition at my alma mater was $1500 something, $1525, if memory serves, and topped out at $1700 something my senior year.  Today, I just checked, it's $41,650, plus $10,300 room and board if your kid wants the campus experience.

    Yves Smith remarked that her middle class family sent her to Harvard in the mid 70s.  You could actually do that then without incurring ungodly debt.

    Wahoo, I just found a pdf from UNC 1970:  http://www.northcarolina.edu/...  Get a load of the yearly tuition!  And fees.  For Chapel Hill.  Foxx graduated in 1968, two years earlier, so I'd say the whole shebang per year was maybe $500.  Generously estimated.

    As late as 1996-97, in state tuition was about $1250:  it's shown in a graph and I'm estimating, definitely less than $1500.  http://moreheadcain.org/...  Nice graph showing the trajectory of college costs versus consumer costs since 1985.

    I've read the reports of seniors going into the tank on student loans and I'm not sure I've got the whole picture.  I knew someone who put herself thru college on student loans and she was paying it back when I knew her.  I didn't ask about the terms.  I'm just a little surprised that students loans from that period are still hanging around because college costs weren't that high--for most schools, of course.  There were always schools that had sticker shock costs, but they were absolutely the exception.

    Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

    by CarolinNJ on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 01:07:13 PM PDT

    •  Colleges and universities used to be for higher (0+ / 0-)

      education. Now they are just big businesses like the rest of corporate America.

      •  Some colleges and universities used to be for (0+ / 0-)

        higher education.  Some were gathering places for upper class heirs to organize themselves socially, and take one last carefree fling, before launching into the adult world in leadership positions.  Post HS education has always been a status and social sorting environment and some schools still faithfully perform that function.  The Ivies, of course, but there are others, not all big name, large institutions.  Yes, Elizabeth Warren pushed past that, but the proof is the upper class mediocrities who attain far beyond their innate abilities.  They are born on third base and they do score.  They would be hand to mouth, not a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out knockabouts if bootstrapping were their means to rise.

        Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

        by CarolinNJ on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:59:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
          Some were gathering places for upper class heirs to organize themselves socially, and take one last carefree fling, before launching into the adult world in leadership positions.
          Unfortunately, a lot of that playground-for-the-rich aspect of college has stayed with us, and has even made a comeback.

          For example, universities all over the country have reinvented their dorms as luxury getaways.  Dorms in the 1980s were cinder block human storage units with terrible food; now they have swoopy architecture, weight rooms, food courts with a dude in a chef's hat who will mix you up a pasta bowl, and "suites" in place of cramped little rooms---students now have "suitemates" instead of roommates.  

          Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

          by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 05:07:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Apparently, Meg Whitman gave Princeton enough (0+ / 0-)

            to build a college with her name.  Thirty million.  Others have generously chipped in.

            http://www.princeton.edu/...

            http://www.princeton.edu/...

            Can't beat the upper classes for, um, interlocking social directories.  This kind of hanging together networking is something the middle class has never really mastered, nor fully appreciated.  The middle class exhorts its children to make it on their own, teaches it as a virtue, the upper class has always known better.

            Those who forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it.

            by CarolinNJ on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 05:32:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  HOW?!?! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    smiley7

    How do we force this fucking bitch out of office?

  •  The name of the object doesn't match with the name (0+ / 0-)

    of the domain.

  •  Definitely out of touch... (0+ / 0-)

    "I have very little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debt or even $80,000 of debt because there’s no reason for that."

    It is my position that this person obviously has no idea of what college costs, the wages a student can earn while attending and the gap.

    The vast majority of college students cannot get a job that pays more than 30k a year and even throwing all of it at the cost of any course, it would not pay it entirely.

    Meanwhile, what is the person supposed to do for food, clothing, shelter and not to mention books and supplies let alone the tuition?

    Republicans are starting to show us they no longer have the ability to understand the America the majority lives in, nor do they want to.
    They are set for life with a paycheck for being a representative or senator, so who cares what people have to go through PRESENTLY! to get the same education that they got 30 years ago!

    I can't believe the words that come out of some of these peoples mouths.
    Its as if they think no one will check and that regardless, their followers and supporters will jump in line anyway despite the evidence to the contrary.

    We need a complete overhaul of every single person in office right  now with people who actually care about this nation and not what they can get from lobbyists and special interest groups to supplement their already huge income.

    Sorry, there are many people in this nation that deserve more than the crumbs republicans are leaving.
    They are stripping this nation of opportunities and wonder why people can't afford a decent education.

    •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
      The vast majority of college students cannot get a job that pays more than 30k a year and even throwing all of it at the cost of any course, it would not pay it entirely.
      A student can't earn anywhere close to 30k while going to college at the same time.  If you work crap jobs, bagging groceries or serving lattes, you can sock away about $1000/mo in the summer and maybe half that during the academic year, so $7000/year is a closer estimate for the amount you can earn.

      You could sock away a lot more if you worked a proper internship rather than bagging groceries, but this is not guaranteed and not an option available to everyone.

      So let's assume that you start out broke, bag groceries starting at 16 and have $10,000 in the bank when you enter college.  Combine this initial savings with crap jobs and you can get close to $10,000/year, tops.

      If you then include the amount you can get from Pell grants and other support, you've still only covered about 2/3 to 3/4 of the annual college cost at a typical in-state public university.   So even with work, you'll be taking out thousands of dollars in loans every year to cover the remainder.

      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

      by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 04:52:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Study vs work (0+ / 0-)

    Contemplate the words "student" and "worker".
    Making students work is antithetical.

    Working one's way through school attenuates one's prospects.

    •  Antithetical to what? (0+ / 0-)

      I worked through college, and as a result I got a lot more out of college, not less.

      None of my roommates had to work to go to college, and they all slept in, played video games and occasionally skipped class.  I always knew just how many hours of work it took me to be there, and I was up at the crack of dawn, taking part in every possible extracurricular activity, and generally seeing my time there as something that I should not waste.

      On top of that, working as a TA is what got me into graduate school with a waiver and stipend, allowing me to get as far as a Ph.D. and only paying for 3 years of college.  Working got me internships at IBM and Intel, and launched my research career.  If I didn't work through school, I'd be nowhere by now.

      Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

      by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:18:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Time Warp? (0+ / 0-)

    It is frightening that a legislator has so little grasp of current reality.  

  •  Motivation (0+ / 0-)

    Wicked Witch of the West sounds about right, as some of these other posters have said.  Times are hard these days, and every other student out there is scraping at the bottom of the barrel just so they can afford to have a proper education.  Her comments are rather ignorant.  Just in case she hasn’t noticed, times have changed, and I can go as far as saying this is the modern Depression Era.  Borrowing cash isn’t something bad, unless you won’t be able to pay it back.  From my experiences, I’ve never had any problems dealing with a pay day loan.  They are rather useful when you’re simply out of options to fall back on, and can definitely lift your spirits when things look gloomy.

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