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2-megawatt wind turbine on Kumeyaay Indian reservation. (Photo by Meteor Blades)
Two-megawatt wind turbine on Kumeyaay
Indian reservation. (Photo by Meteor Blades)
Billionaire money at work: Right-wingers are being urged to cooperate to trash President Obama's clean energy plans. The approach specifies an attack on wind turbines and provides a list of suggested approaches. So says the Guardian after viewing a confidential memorandum edited by John Droz Jr., a senior fellow at the American Tradition Institute. Senior fellow and climate-change denier.

Droz is a long-time anti-wind activist who claims the technology is unsound and the benefits non-existent. This no doubt will come as a surprise to Iowans, whose state generated 19 percent of its electricity with wind turbines in 2011.

Droz has repeatedly urged anti-wind activists to develop an "effective National PR Plan." The memo, which has been seen by reporters at The Guardian and Stephen Lacey at Think Progress, seems to be the blueprint for such a plan. ATI claims it has no connection to the memo. That may be so, but it sounds precisely like something it would produce having for years been in the business of climate-change denial, attacking state-level efforts at building renewable energy infrastructure and trashing environmental controls.

Suzanne Goldenberg writes that ATI is in coalition with like-minded "thinktanks and networks united by their efforts to discredit climate science and their close connections to the oil and gas industry, including the Koch family." Included are the Heartland Institute, whose vile climate-change billboards featuring the Unabomber have generated a firestorm of outrage, the John Locke Foundation and Americans for Prosperity, the tea party-funding operation founded by the Koch brothers.

Lacey writes:

The [memo], authored by Illinois anti-wind attorney Rich Porter and edited by Droz, outlines in great detail how a national PR campaign would function. The group’s campaign efforts would include outreach to a who’s who of conservative media outlets and think tanks already working to discredit renewable energy: Fox News, The Washington Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Heartland Institute, the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and Americans for Prosperity.
It makes clear that the campaign should appear to be a grassroots groundswell of opposition to the use of wind power.

Some highlights:

• Youth Outreach will create program for public school coordination as well as college coordination. This will include community activity and participation with sponsorships for science fairs, school activity etc. with preset parameters that cause students to steer away from wind because they discover it doesn’t meet the criteria we set up (poster contest, essays etc).

• Set up a dummy business that will go into communities considering wind development, proposing to build 400 foot billboards.

• Create a “think-tank” subgroup to produce and disseminate white paper reports and scientific quotes and papers that back-up the message.

• Employ a well-known spokesman with star credibility. (Find one to volunteer?)

• Create counter-intelligence branch (responsible for communicating current industry tactics and strategies as feedback to this organization)

• Write exposé book on the industry, showing government waste, harm to communities and other negative impacts on people and the environment.

• A team investigates links to any organization supporting wind in order to expose that support.

This is just one more operation designed to chip a few more votes away from Obama's total in November. The president has been a friend to the oil industry, opening up new land—including vast off-shore acreage—to drilling. He is encouraging the export of coal to China. But this support for the fossil fuels magnates is not good enough. To be a real friend in the view of Droz and the Kochs and all their beneficiaries, Obama must also be an enemy of renewable energy sources.

As he proved Tuesday with his speech in Albany that included extension of the production tax credit subsidy for electricity generated by solar, wind and geothermal sources and with the billions of dollars put into spurring more development and commercialization of renewable technologies, he is not going to be that enemy.

Droz's plans may be more subtle than to link Obama to the Unabomber, but his intent is the same. Demonization. It's an old schtick no matter what new method is used to spread it.

Originally posted to Meteor Blades on Wed May 09, 2012 at 04:28 PM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Freaking amazing ! (16+ / 0-)

    What loathsome underhanded bullshit .
    They just can't help themselves I guess .

    "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

    by indycam on Wed May 09, 2012 at 04:40:13 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for this Blades - Recently a winger (22+ / 0-)

    on FB posted a screed about how ineffective and dangerous Wind Power was. I commented back when he complained about the Bird Kills... "You mean other clean fuels (hahaha) like Coal, Oil and Nuclear are better for the birds and wildlife in general".

    Seemed to shut him up. Tipped and Rec.'d

    •  and when did the rwingers (9+ / 0-)

      ever care about birds, anyway? except for shooting them, of course (which makes me think about Cheney's infamous quail hunt ;)

    •  Bird kills (12+ / 0-)

      are an artifact of 1980s wind technology.  Today's wind turbines rotate much more slowly virtually eliminating avian deaths.  If heaps of birds were being killed I can assure you that the Danes would not be continuing to push forward with their commitment to wind power.  Affection for small animals and children  are the keynotes of Danish social culture.

      The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

      by ActivistGuy on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:08:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tip speed is roughly 140-180 mph (0+ / 0-)

        Tip speeds depend on wind speed and generator load, that is the reason for the spread.  Do the math in fps.  As Mort Saul might say, "The rotor speed you see is an optical delusion".

        •  Simple question (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The Angry Architect

          If you were a bird, would you rather fly through a turbine blade

          a. Near the hub, where the velocity is lower?

          b. Out near the end of the blade radius, where the velocity is high?

          More dead birds would choose alternative (a), because successfully passing through the area covered by the blades rotation isn't related to tip speed, as you seem to be implying.

          The probability at a given radius depends on how many degrees of arc the bird occupies at that radius and how much time the blade spends in each segment of that size in degrees of arc (or all in radians, if you prefer). Any point on the blade's radius sweeps out the same number of degrees of arc in the same amount of time.

          The latter is directly proportional to rotational frequency, not linear velocity, and the highest probability for a bird to pass through the blades' plane is at the radius of the blade tips, where the ratio of the bird's size is the smallest fraction of the circle the blade traces.

          For birds distributed randomly over the blade's radius, the number of collisions will be proportional to the blade's rotational frequency (RPMs or some similar measure) - the slower the rotation, the fewer the birds hit.

          It's never too late to have a happy childhood - Tom Robbins

          by badger on Wed May 09, 2012 at 08:04:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Soaring birds (0+ / 0-)

            are the most vulnerable.  Hawks, vultures, eagles, etc. are hit because they soar into the space near the high speed tips of the blades.  In areas frequented by raptors it is a serious problem.

            •  Actually ... (0+ / 0-)

              The "serious" is a term that is (a) not specific and (b) seriously (snark) debated.

              The most important point, now, about raptor kills is to be using 21st century technology -- e.g., being able to site the systems so that they are sited correctly.  And, working/researching to reduce impacts beyond solutions from good siting.

              And, well, should keep in perspective -- how many raptors / birds killed by pesticide, aircraft, windows, domestic cats, ....?

              Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

              by A Siegel on Thu May 10, 2012 at 03:58:35 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Quixote, Don Quixote, & his sidekick Sancho Droz (6+ / 0-)
    • Employ a well-known spokesman with star credibility. (Find one to volunteer?)

    slutty voter for a "dangerous president"; Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) "Sciant terra viam monstrare." 政治委员, 政委!

    by annieli on Wed May 09, 2012 at 04:41:41 PM PDT

  •  Tipped, recced, and shared on facebook. (6+ / 0-)

    Keep exposing these climate change denialists for the frauds they are.

  •  would like to say i am surprised (21+ / 0-)

    but the right keeps pulling underhanded shit with climate change and green energy.

    this was interesting story from last month:

    Wind energy blowing away nuclear power:

    Wind energy supplies 3 percent of global electricity needs and will soon supply more electricity than nuclear power. In 2011, some 50 billion euros were invested in wind, leading some to say it's cheap and creates jobs.

    Wind energy is booming and it is gaining in significance worldwide. It supplies some 20 percent of electricity in Spain and Denmark as well as about 10 percent in Germany. By 2020, the share of wind energy will have risen to between 20 percent and 25 percent in Germany, according to estimates.

    Last year, new wind power plants with a total capacity of some 40 gigawatts (GW) were installed worldwide, according to the World Wind Energy Association (WWEA). This puts wind energy's global capacity at 237 GW by the end of 2011- the equivalent of what some 280 nuclear power plants generate. Currently, there are some 380 nuclear power plants producing electricity worldwide.

    Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

    by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed May 09, 2012 at 04:45:01 PM PDT

    •  To be fair, the "nameplate" capacity... (16+ / 0-)

      ...of a wind turbine, because of wind's intermittency, does not equate with a nuclear power plant, which is on line longer. So 237 GW capacity doesn't equate with 280 nuclear power plants. It's closer to 80 nuclear power plants.

      A better way to measure this is by the gigawatt-hours of electricity they each produce, not what they CAN produce under optimum conditions.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed May 09, 2012 at 04:56:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i'll take 80! i'm not greedy.... (8+ / 0-)

        that's a little over 20%. i'll take anything i can get. :)

        Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Mohandas K. Gandhi

        by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed May 09, 2012 at 05:02:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The attack is always "single magic bullet" (4+ / 0-)

        "Wind or Solar or low-head hydro or geothermal can't replace our current Carbon and Nuclear mix."

        Life after Carbon and with less Nuclear is very much within our grasp even if we don't achieve another technological breakthrough. But the solution is multilayered, which makes each component vulnerable if each is isolated in the debate.

        When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

        by Egalitare on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:36:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Modern wind turbines are producing (0+ / 0-)

        at between 45 to 70% of nameplate capacity, depending on location, so it'd be more than 80.

        You're right about the difference in general, though.

        "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

        by Lawrence on Thu May 10, 2012 at 03:07:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am unaware of any on-shore site anywhere... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          ...that provides anything approaching 70 percent of nameplate capacity on an annual basis. I would be glad to learn that I am wrong.

          Averages of capacity factors have, of course, been rising for decades. But, according to the International Energy Agency, the newest offshore turbine will have a capacity factor of between 34% and 43%, and the newest on-shore turbines have a CF  of between 21% and 41%.

          Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

          by Meteor Blades on Thu May 10, 2012 at 09:27:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hm, yeah, I may have been looking at the cream (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Meteor Blades

            of the crop.  It was, indeed, an offshore turbine that was registering 70% capacity over the course of a year.  I think it was one of the new, gearless, large test turbines.

            Onshore wind turbines are up to 58%.... that's in Scotland, though.  :p

            Most turbines in the European Union produce electricity at an average of 25% of their rated maximum power due to the variability of wind resources,[25] but Scotland's wind regime provides average capacity factor of 40% or higher on the west and northern coasts. A small wind farm on Shetland with five Vestas V47 660 kW turbines recently achieved a world record of 58% capacity over the course of a year. This record is claimed by Burradale windfarm, located just a few miles outside Lerwick and operated by Shetland Aerogenerators Ltd. Since opening in 2000, the turbines at this wind farm have had an average capacity factor of 52% and, according to this report, in 2005 averaged a world record 57.9%.[26]

            I wouldn't trust the IEA figures too much, though, as they've been underestimating wind for some time now.

            Siemens is projecting a 50% capacity factor for its offshore turbines, and I wouldn't be surprised if they attain that.

            Onshore will probably average somewhere around a 35% to 40% wind capacity factor with the newer turbines.  I think they're already close to that on average in Iowa.  Texas onshore wind farms supposedly already have an average of over 44% nameplate capacity:

            A facility's net capacity factor is the ratio of a generator's actual energy production over some time interval to its nameplate capacity; in other words, average output in one year divided by the total possible output per year. No power plant's capacity factor matches its nameplate capacity. Texas wind farms have an average capacity factor of approximately 44%, meaning that over the course of a year, the facilities produce 44% of the energy that could be produced if the wind were blowing steadily 100% of the time. In contrast, however, wind plants typically have lower capacity factors than nuclear facilities (NN%) and most coal-fired plants (CC% on average).

            "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

            by Lawrence on Thu May 10, 2012 at 01:24:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The IEA figures for Europe are not... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              ...estimates but actual data from the producers.

              It's clear that the situation is improving. But there are only so many prime sites, and the capacity factor will, I suspect never rise much above 50% overall, with a few exceptions in the absolute best spots (the North Sea, for instance).

              Don't get me wrong. I am a big fan and a big supporter of wind power.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Thu May 10, 2012 at 05:24:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Right means their Right to protect special (6+ / 0-)

      interest at the expense of good  common sense.

      PLEASE Stop Mitt (the Pitts) Romney from stealing the Presidential Election!

      by laserhaas on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:05:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  did this take into account the loss of 80 japanese (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      plants?  They're there, just not producing power.

  •  The number of pies (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior, Garrett, Eric Nelson

    that they have their fingers in is infinite.

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Wed May 09, 2012 at 05:19:39 PM PDT

  •  Big issue here. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior, Losty
    DERBY LINE, VT/STANSTEAD, QUE. – A protest against the proposed Derby Line Wind Project attracted a large turnout with more than 100 people from both sides of the border.
    Many had strong words against it and spoke passionately against wind farms in or near communities. Most guest speakers cited health concerns and lower property values.
    Among those present were Vermont State Senator Joe Benning, Pierre Reid from the National Assembly of Canada, Jean Rousseau from The House of Common’s in Ottawa, and wind power expert Mark Duchamp from Spain, who happened to be traveling around Quebec.
    NEWPORT, Vt.—The editor of a Vermont weekly newspaper is promising to fight the criminal trespass charge filed against him while he was covering a protest against a wind power project being built on Lowell Mountain.

    Chris Braithwaite, the publisher of The Chronicle of Barton, said he would ask a jury to dismiss the charge against him that was filed while he was covering a December protest in which a number of anti-wind activists were charged with trespassing on land controlled by Green Mountain Power.

    Braithwaite, 67, of Glover, had tried to argue that since he was a reporter covering a news event he should have been exempted from trespassing laws.

    SHEFFIELD- Protestors gathered along the access road to the Sheffield Wind Project on Wednesday. Protestors held signs that said " Shumlin is Corrupt". This group of protestors feels strongly that the turbines on this mountain ridge were not the correct response for trying to go green in the state of Vermont.
    Occupy Lowell Mountain? Despite Court Order, Opponents Camp Near GMP Blasting Zone

    "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

    by kestrel9000 on Wed May 09, 2012 at 05:33:41 PM PDT

    •  "Anti-wind activist" is a great phrase (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      I'm more of an "anti-wind-on-your-wedding-day activist" but to each their own.  I'm curious to know what the alleged health effects of wind farms might be, if you're not a bird.

      Romney '12: The Power of Crass Commands You!

      by Rich in PA on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:22:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Badly designed or constructed ones make noise, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        I'm curious to know what the alleged health effects of wind farms might be, if you're not a bird.
        which can be annoying.  Badly located ones can cast shadows on homes, which some people find to be annoying.  

        I strongly support wind power, and I feel that wind should have a large part in the world's energy mix.  BUT they must be well designed, well made, and well located to avoid annoying people near them.  

        Renewable energy brings national global security.     

        by Calamity Jean on Thu May 10, 2012 at 08:55:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's an interesting question (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean

          People have totally internalized the annoyance (and worse!) of everything our oil-and-coal-and-gas production and distribution regime require of us.  But give them something new like wind, and every little thing freaks them out.

          The shadow thing is especially interesting to me, since here in central PA wind turbines are on high ridge tops in state land without any permanent (as opposed to leased hunting lodge) residences in shadow or even noise range.  Are they closer to homes in New Hampshire and elsewhere?  We do have an awful lot of empty space for a northeastern state.

          Romney '12: The Power of Crass Commands You!

          by Rich in PA on Thu May 10, 2012 at 12:41:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Are they closer to homes in New Hampshire and elsewhere?
            I've seen videos of a house or houses that showed shadows of a wind turbine's blades crossing it, but I don't know where the house is located.  I don't think it would bother me, but "different strokes for different folks".  

            Renewable energy brings national global security.     

            by Calamity Jean on Fri May 11, 2012 at 10:27:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  does their deception (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Egalitare, Larsstephens

    know any bounds?

    Who can be against Wind Energy?

    The Anti-Progress party that's who.

    What is necessary to change a person is to change his awareness of himself.
    -- Maslow ...... my list.

    by jamess on Wed May 09, 2012 at 05:58:51 PM PDT

  •  The Guardian (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    that's helpful.  Everyone in Britain will know what's going on when the US starts abandoning wind energy.  

    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

    by ActivistGuy on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:03:19 PM PDT

    •  No oe here will know (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      that it's an organized campaign.  In fact, to suggest so will get you denounced as a "conspiracy theorist".  But a bunch of bleedin' yobs will know what's going on.

      The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

      by ActivistGuy on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:05:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Simply amazing. (0+ / 0-)

    “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    by LamontCranston on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:04:02 PM PDT

  •  our parties names are misnomers. Right and Left (4+ / 0-)

    should be

    Wrong and Right


    PLEASE Stop Mitt (the Pitts) Romney from stealing the Presidential Election!

    by laserhaas on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:04:17 PM PDT

  •  The problem is also that there are otherwise... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miggles, dinotrac

    ... progressive people using some of the same tactics to fight wind development if it's in their backyards.

    "So, am I right or what?"

    by itzik shpitzik on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:06:14 PM PDT

    •  I'll put my comment here because . . . (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Angry Architect

         Your point is relevant to what I want to say. I'm a birder and my observation is that many if not most birders are vehemently against wind turbines because of the number of birds and bats that get caught in the vortex. I have been buying wind electricity for several years in Texas. After I started I found out Green Mountain Energy was started by one of W's good buddies. I go birding down around the port of Freeport, TX where large amounts of wind equipment are being imported from China. There are backlogs of blades, turbines and the stands to mount them on back logged waiting for low-boy 18 wheelers to haul them to the nearest mainline rail transportation: about 20 mi. From there they will be hauled all over the Western US. Somehow I doubt that that's the work of a bunch of deranged left-wing socialists. TMO.

      •  I guess I have no idea what you're talking about. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        burnt out, Miggles

        Bird kills is simpky the most bogus anti-renewable argument. It has no basis. Bird mortality from colliding with buildings, cars, and encounters with domestic cats each dwarf bird kills from wind turbines by many, many multiples. Look it up...

        "So, am I right or what?"

        by itzik shpitzik on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:35:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The most interesting part is how this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mike101, zenox

    is a blueprint for every issue they want to defeat.  It lays out the whole plan of attack.  My favorite part is the writing of a book.  Although the science fair and introducing ridiculous ideas into the communities affected are right on up there.

    •  Bingo (0+ / 0-)
      a blueprint for every issue they want to defeat.
      They are quite predictive, actually. Don't look for originality or/and creativity.

      "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

      by zenox on Wed May 09, 2012 at 07:38:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  just finished a long drive through CA wing nut (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Says Who

    country, and saw 2 signs complaining about wind power.  Now I know why.  Also saw the campaign slogan jobs not taxes, and I think someone should do a compilation of the Jobs bill voted on by house repugs so we can start hitting them hard.  That was their 2010 push, and what did they do about jobs?  vote down all the democratic efforts.

  •  This is the type of fight we're up against. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    helpImdrowning, jan4insight

    Too many on the left go at it with faith that the truth will eventually win out. Give people the facts and they'll see the truth for themselves. Sometimes it seems like that's our version of the old "ignore earthly temptations and find paradise in Heaven after you die" story. It removes a lot of the effort involved in shaping a civilization. Most religions have even moved beyond that.

    -- We are just regular people informed on issues

    by mike101 on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:08:56 PM PDT

  •  Fear (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean, jan4insight

    They are afraid that we are going to hook them up to a wind machine since they are full of hot air.

    "A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world." Oscar Wilde

    by michelewln on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:12:48 PM PDT

  •  Our System Was Premised On This Not Being the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WheninRome, Boreal Ecologist

    nature of the society it was to govern.

    If knowledge, education and public discourse can be fabricated and issued by the rich and their enterprises, our system cannot work except to be a democratic plutocracy (which I personally think they've already turned it into).

    The amount of restraint needed to be made on the rich, on business, and progressive restraints on speech and press in order to make this a popular democratic republic is beyond anything anyone outside very radical fringes can even conceive.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:15:01 PM PDT

    •  and yet is so simple: (0+ / 0-)

      steeply progressive taxation; estate taxes high enough to reduce accumulated dynastic wealth to trivial levels; destruction of the media monopolies; extinction of private armed forces by whatever means are necessary; confiscation of assets held by the 1%;  legalistation and control of the drug trade (to block off that spring of corrupting trillions); rolling up the networks of reactionary obstructionating propaganda organisations as the criminal conspiracies that they are; reduction of the armed forces to 10%of the current size; armed interdiction of the intelligence community, detention of the senior members, destruction of records and physical assets, followed by dissolution of all but minimal domestic counterintelligence capacity;  demilitarisation of the internal security services and reconstitution  of a civilian police force with effective civilian oversight and for-cause dismissal of corrupt or violent officers....and a brigade of spotless christian heroes under my personal command.

      Scripture says "resist not evil", but evil unresisted will prevail.

      by Boreal Ecologist on Wed May 09, 2012 at 07:46:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They lie; they vote; we don't; they win; we get (0+ / 0-)

    Moldy crumbs.

    The radical Republican party is the party of oppression, fear, loathing and above all more money and power for the people who robbed us.

    by a2nite on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:15:33 PM PDT

  •  Hey the electric utilities did it w light bulbs (0+ / 0-)

    Republicans take care of big money, for big money takes care of them ~ Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:16:46 PM PDT

  •  Anti-wind documentary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Says Who

    Saw this on the apple trailer site and wondered about its pretty clear anti-wind p.o.v.

    connected? or is this a good faith effort?

    "Stare at the monster: remark/ How difficult it is to define just what/ Amounts to monstrosity in that/ Very ordinary appearance." - Ted Hughes

    by MarkC on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:18:13 PM PDT

    •  Notice the T. Boone Pickens cartoon? (0+ / 0-)

      He's sitting in an empty oil barrel and holding a pinwheel toward the wind. If that is authentic, traceable to an editorial page, it lends credence to this clip being a documentary. If it is contrived, more likely this is a slam.

      Voting Republican is a luxury that very few Americans can afford.

      by Says Who on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:48:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sleazy scumbags to the core. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zenox, Eric Nelson
  •  They're getting desperate. It won't work, though. (7+ / 0-)

    There are over 600 wind farms in the USA. Enough people are already familiar with wind farms. The scary devil you don't know is already becoming familiar.

  •  Stop (0+ / 0-)

    pretending Obama isn't a friend to coal, oil, gas (fracking) and nuclear—because he is.

  •  Passing the FYI note on to Grassroots orgs (0+ / 0-)

    I expect that this kind of thing could sound like a slap in the face to grassroots activists working to develop a broader social understanding of renewable energy sources such as wind power - and inasmuch, a slap in the face to the scientists, industrial engineers, and business persons working on producing useful mechanisms for harnessing renewable energy.

    In recommending a candid approach to politics, however, I think it can make for a  nice sort of note to pass on to persons involved about  grassroots renewable energy information, as a sort of kind FYI - with a note about being patient towards politics - politics, in some contrasting light beside useful, pragmatic endeavor. (Just wanted to recommend)

  •  Theese Bozos can't keep a secret (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson

    I don't know if it's arrogance or incompetence but I've lost count on the number of leaked memos that have surfaced.

    Response: If you "got it" you wouldn't be a republican

    by JML9999 on Wed May 09, 2012 at 06:41:28 PM PDT

  •  Wind does have serious problems (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rbird, Eric Nelson

    Right up front, I'm retired from the power production industry (Hydro).  I am an EE and spent my career as a technician, not in design.  Wind has two problems.  First, it tends to not blow during times of highest demand--when the weather is very hot and very cold.  Second, when it does blow, it often is not steady, rising and falling, often over short periods of time.  For these reasons wind can only be relied on to provide the "base load" (base load is the load that exists at a given time, in a given area, with no outside influences, such as extreme weather), about 30 percent of the time(at least one study I've seen put the number closer to 10 percent) .  What this means is that there must be a "rotating reserve" ready to pick up the slack at a moment's notice.  Over much of the U.S., this reserve is provided by steam powered turbines, with the steam boilers fired by either coal or natural gas.  Some areas are lucky enough to have hydro generators to provide the base.  Steam boilers cannot be brought up instantly (it takes hours to heat), so the boilers must be kept fired and the turbines turning constantly.  During these times the generators are producing only a small amount of power, with the result that the income from power sales is small, while the fuel and maintenance costs are borne by the utility.  The utility ratepayers are subsidising the wind producers by providing the rotating reserve without compensation.  Hydro can be brought from a dead stop to producing power in less than a minute, but the greatest wear and tear on the units occurs during startup and shutdown and there is no mechanism for compensating the hydro producer for the increased costs (and lower revenues) associated with operating in stand-by.  There are other technical problems which are too esoteric to get into, here.

    In England, the Muir Society (hardly right-wing) published a study that mirrors some that I've read from here in the states.

    I'm not anti-wind.  What I've stated above are facts.  Now, for my opinion.  The way the subsidies for wind power have been set up is bordering on a scam for the rich.  The 1.8 cents per KWH produced is an incentive to invest only because it is a way for the rich to not pay taxes on gains from other sources.  I believe that a better way would be along the lines of the original TVA, where the government builds the wind farms, operates the generators and sells the power to the utilities, eliminating the rich middlemen.  I think this would, in the long run, cost the American people less than the present system.  Of course, my way would be Socialism, so it won't happen.

    •  However... (5+ / 0-)

      Sufficient transmission coverage greatly increases the stability of wind power (the wind is alwas blowing somewhere.)

      To such an extent, that last year for one night wind was supplying all of Spain's electricity.

      Furthermore, at times of high heat, solar is a major source of electricity, precisely when the wind is not blowing. (And at times of extreme cold, there usually is some wind.)

      Add in smart-grid demand response, and you're in pretty good shape.

      •  Sufficient transmission coverage (0+ / 0-)

        simply doesn't exist across the vast expanse of the U.S.  The U.S. is essentially a not-well-connected grid with less than required long-distance transmission capacity.  That is the reason that an anomaly on the system can result in a wide-area outage (which happens at least a couple of times a decade).  The Power Co-ordination councils are working on alleviating the problem, but the solution is a long time in the future.  Solar production isn't large-scale enough to take up the slack at the moment (and solar has its own problems, including raw materials required for production are foreign produced).  None of the problems are insurmountable but the solutions aren't near-term.  And with the current emphasis on debt-reduction instead of infrastructure spending we will likely go further into the hole.

    •  Answer could be gravitational potential energy.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ..below ground even.
      Dig a deep hole and suspend giant weights that get pulled up during excess hrs to store the energy. When the wind dies down the weight is lowered capturing the potential engery as kinetic.

      It's one idea and the system could be right next to the same transfer lines at the base of the wind turbine.

      Plus it's mechanical and doesn't require chemicals or special minerals for batteries. Like an old clock.

      •  Storing wind generated energy is a great idea ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson

        Whether by giant weights on chains or by giant flywheels or by pumped water storage, there are many possible ways to store energy to even out fluctuations in demand and production on a grid. Interlocking the existing national grids with high voltage long distance DC connections would also be greatly beneficial.

        I don't think the real impediment to creating these storage or spread distribution systems is technical, I think it is political, since powerful economic interests have a vested interest in preserving inefficient practices which benefit themselves financially.

        "11 dimensional chess" is a clever form of using magical thinking to obfuscate the obvious.

        by Zinman on Wed May 09, 2012 at 09:21:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm a EE too. These problems that you cite (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      are being investigated, and solutions are being realized gradually.  Part of the issue is that wind/solar have 50+ years of catching up to do thanks to the immense spending on the advancement of nuclear energy.

      As far as subsidies vs direct govt investment: good luck with the latter given that we have a Republican controlled House and defacto GOP senate (so long as there are fewer than 60 Democrats).  Thus the market-based incentives like subsidies are about the best that we are going to be able to do.  I'll take that over nothing.

  •  Summary (5+ / 0-)
    think tanks already working to discredit renewable energy: Fox News, The Washington Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Heartland Institute, the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and Americans for Prosperity.
    In short...Murdoch and Koch bros?

    ...and this...

    A team investigates links to any organization supporting wind in order to expose that support.
    How? By hacking them and blackmailing them afterwards?


    They are the ones being exposed. Slowly but surely...

    "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Wed May 09, 2012 at 07:34:32 PM PDT

  •  Take that lovely picture and put it on a.. (4+ / 0-)

    ..billboard saying something along these lines:

    This single 2 megawatt wind turbine can power up 1200 homes  Once it's up, running, and paid off the energy is as free as the wind -and it's clean
    That could knock the republican propaganda right out.

    Based on average annual household electricity consumption of 11,040 kWh in 2008.  Source:  U.S. EIA.

    P.S. my numbers may be a bit goofy but that's not the point. This is a war the GOP is waging putting up 400 foot fear-based billboards.

     Or:  even better. Skip the billboard and do it with the real thing - the wind turbine itself. - what do you want, a bill board or a clean power source?

    Thx MB

  •  Really good summary birds,bats,windpower (0+ / 0-)


  •  There are a lot of famous liberals against wind (0+ / 0-)

    Or at least semi-famous liberals. Generally ones who have achieved some measure of success and have great country/weekend/beach homes.

    I find it disheartening.

    Linda Barry!  Linda Barry!  The feminist cartoonist heroine of my 20s is against wind power.  

    Frankly that alone made me reconsider my disgust at Ira Glass for treating her so badly.

    "Americans, while occasionally willing to be serfs, have always been obstinate about being peasantry."

    by Glinda on Wed May 09, 2012 at 09:27:04 PM PDT

  •  I note that many right wingers, Sam Wyly for... (0+ / 0-)

    ...instance are big supporters of wind energy.

    Wyly, you will recall, is the total moron who ran so called "Green Mountain Energy," that pumped huge sums into George W. Bush's 2000 campaign and went around telling everyone who would listen that "Bush is green..."

    Sam Wyly.

    Nor need be right wing to regard this form of energy as seriously misguided.

    In fact, if one actually is opposed to the use of dangerous natural gas, it's very difficult to make a case for wind energy.

    Every single nation that has large amounts of wind capacity (although no nations make much energy energy from it) is simultaneously making huge and often disasterous investments in gas.

    There are no exceptions.

    Nor is it quite right to say that "if the Republicans are against it, I'm for it."

    If we say that, we're no better than they are, and we do need to make it clear that we are better.

  •  Could this have started already? (0+ / 0-)

    My brother posted an article against wind energy on his facebook.  Now, knowing where my brother gets his news, I was suspicious.  So I went to the site the story was linked from and tried to determine who wrote it and who was behind the site.  Nothing.  No byline, no sponsor, no official group, nothing.  
    Now I see this story.  Coincidence?

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