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Like many people, I don't believe in coincidence. I believe things happen for a reason, even if, at the time, the idea that there could be any reason for something happening is unimaginable, that any good could come from surviving evil. I'm sure my fellow Tree Climbers are nodding as they read this. I won't sully this beautiful almost-summer afternoon by going into the ugly details of what I survived years ago. This diary needs no trigger-warning. What happened happened. What I will say is that, while The Bad did not make me stronger, the process of surviving it did.

I'm pretty sure I still would have had what I call my Mama Bear Protective Mode had I not survived what happened decades ago. I always hated bullies, and I was a tall kid for my age, so I was the perfect person to get right up in quite a few faces. My little brother got picked on by me, but God help anyone else who tired to mess with him. (He got me back plenty, btw. Somewhere in a landfill is a 1970's pink shag bedroom rug that still stinks of Brute cologne, no matter how much trash is on top of it.) But, having said that, I think having a horrible time in my past has galvanized me to stand up and step in, even when it's not MY fight, more than I would have, because when you're being harmed and hurt, the worst part is wondering what you did to deserve it, that godawful uncertainty that festers inside your own head... and words cannot express what it means to find someone on your side, having your back.

I know we've all had a moment like that. I'd dare to say that real friendships and marriages are born in, and also die in, the moments when it comes down to that other person having your back when it counts. It's one of the things I LOVE about Daily Kos.  This is a community of people who DO care, who do step up for the people who need it: Gay? Minority? Female? Unemployed? Underemployed? Marginalized? Differently-abled? Someone who's bigger and stronger picking on you? Demeaning you? Stomping all over your rights? Welcome. You have friends here. Taste a recipe, laugh at a cartoon, talk to, learn from and make friends with people whose paths you may have never crossed, hang out and help brainstorm about how we can change the world for the better.... with more and better Democrats :) ... add your individual voice to flavor the melting pot here.

So, that being said, what's the deal about the title of the diary, you might ask.

Well, like I said, I don't believe in coincidences. Something I read here a few months ago had a link in it which I click through and it lead to an eloquent blog post about the rape culture that is very real, and very pernicious, in our society. I wish I could credit the diary who sent me there, but it's been so long, I don't remember. If it was yours, leave me a comment so I can update and give you props.

Earlier this week, there was a radio news item as I was driving my daughter to her physical therapy appointment. Two idiot mothers chaperoning a prom in Colorado sprayed the teens with Lysol for "dirty dancing". Let me just say, snark intended, it's SOOO much fun to explain this to a "very young" 11-year-old girl who's feeling very grown-up that next year she will be in the Middle School and go to her first dance, the nuances that while I expect her to behave in public, those mothers were dead-wrong.  I was thinking of all the diaries that were written about Rush Limbaugh, and slut-shaming, and of course, our beloved take-back of the word with our Sluts Group here in this community. I hadn't been on here much recently since April, so I don't know if anyone wrote another diary about that incident already, but I was thinking of writing my own diary today about it. (My kid got bit by a tick, and yep, the gods decided to throw melons at our heads - or at least one melon-sized lump filled with Lyme bacteria at her left knee, hence the PT we were driving to, and me dropping out for sight for a few weeks.) Raising a daughter today, to be strong, to be safe, and to honor and respect herself, seems a lot more complicated that it was for my own mother. Evil Ticks of Doom notwithstanding.

Well, that's the strange thing, that I won't call a coincidence, because I still and always will believe things do happen for a reason. Today, before I could write the diary, but with this all swimming around in my head, a wonderful new group started up, thanks to rexymeteorite, Courtesy Kos. I like it. I like the whole idea of it. I realize it won't be for everyone, but seeing who's all responded positively in the comment thread, it looks like it's NOT going to be some stuffy hall-monitor Miss Manners type of group, but born of genuine desire to further good camaraderie and discourse.

But, if you look, I didn't participate much in the comments, other than handing out a few stars.

Because there was another diary published, right about that time. I won't link it, for reasons which will immediately become obvious.

The title of the diary drew me in, as I usually read diaries and participate in the comments about GLBTQ issues, trying to lend support and my own voice, even though I'm only an "Honorary Drag Queen" in this life (long story, much champagne that night). However, in the diary, the diarist, in a very graphic manner, describes an act of non-consensual, forced anal sex on a female "girlfriend/wife" as something that all heterosexual men have wanted to do and have tried at some point. (For Tree Climbers out there, the diary does need some kind of trigger-warning, so be warned before you go looking.) The dairy violates the "don't be a dick" rule in a multiple of ways, at least if you think dickish behavior is making rape jokes, misogyny, misandry, and just otherwise being gratuitously foul. I was going to HR it, but the diarist made it personal very, very quickly - accusing me of "hating gay marriage" and not having a sense of humor and or understanding satire, blah-blah-blah. So, there went my HR, due to the flame-war rules... I do have a problem with what was said, and how it was said,  not that it matters at this point, it wouldn't have made a difference in the fact that I'm never going to share his "humor" but the diarist did not put a snark/humor tag on his work, either.

The thing is, the diary got me in Mama Bear Mode, NOT because of the graphic nature, NOT because of the misogynistic rape "joke", ... what really, really bothered me to the point of commenting instead of ignoring it was that the diarist portrayed heterosexual men in such a demeaning, nasty way. For a moment, I flashed to the eyes of dear lovers past, men who shared my life, and my love, and who never would share this diarists humor or actions or attitude. Men who were both sensuous and adventurous enough to push their own boundaries with me, and those boundaries extended, heterosexually, beyond what some men would be comfortable with in our culture... they let their own Inner Sluts out to party, and I was the lucky recipient of their trust.

For every time a man on this site has stood up for women's sexuality and empowerment, for every time we, as women, take offense to slut-shaming of our sisters... I HAD to speak up. It's not often that a woman finds herself standing up for hetero male sexuality, but today, I got the opportunity. And I don't care what names I get called in the process. The past loves who I'm thinking about won't even know I did this today, but I know, if the roles had been reversed, if someone was slut-shaming me,.. they would have done exactly the same in return.

I'll also state that if somehow, in my desire to stand up for hetero guys, I came across as being against full, unequivocal equality for everyone, I am truly, truly shocked, and extremely sorry. That was not my intention, and I have re-read my own comments and don't think they come across in that light to any reasonable person, I want to make sure that I'm very clear on my truth about that.

But what amazed me is the juxtaposition of the two diaries... one Kossack calling for more polite discourse,  and one making a graphic rape "joke", and that diary also getting Rec's by anyone. NOT MANY. But still, it really was a WTF moment for me at least. I'm very glad to see that the Courtesy Kos group diary has a lot more tips and Recs. We talk about tough, sometimes very graphic things here, but most people do it in a way that is respectful to the greater community.

Peace.

Originally posted to Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 02:37 PM PDT.

Also republished by Courtesy Kos and House of LIGHTS.

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Comment Preferences

  •  i read that diary (14+ / 0-)

    and your comments and

    the nasty, "fuck you if you can't take a joke" tone of the diarist's response was enough to consider throwing an HR his way (my hr threshold is very high).  unfortunately, i was at work and could not become agitated to the degree i would have if i had engaged.  so i didn't.

    it's so important for people to understand that rape isn't funny.  adding a snark tag isn't enough.  it's.just.not.funny.

    thanks for writing this.  thanks for challenging his thoughtless participation in rape culture.  

    everyone within sight of these pixels remember:  rape.is.NOT.funny.

    I will believe corportions are people when Texas executes one.

    by patchmo13 on Fri May 18, 2012 at 03:44:18 PM PDT

    •  Thanks, hun. Hugs. (7+ / 0-)

      “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

      by Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 03:47:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't see the post, thank you for taking a (10+ / 0-)

        rational stand.  

        Rape Jokes Are Never* Funny.  Period.
        * Even If the joke involves Scott Walker.  Not funny.

        To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt 1918

        by JVolvo on Fri May 18, 2012 at 04:34:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Jeebus. That middle portion of the diary is (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cinnamon, Wee Mama, Avilyn, splashy, Smoh

        seriously fucked up.  As are his insults to you in comments.

        Bill S did great work exposing Tea Bag, pro-Walker and racist fuckheads on Facebook a while ago, however I'm afraid the daily battle with the haters has affected his sense of proportion and cvility.  He lost his gig at the online Baltimore Examiner due to Conservative pushback in those battles last year.  It has taken it's toll.

        :o(

        To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt 1918

        by JVolvo on Fri May 18, 2012 at 04:53:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wasn't familiar (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo, Wee Mama, kishik, Smoh

          with his past history when I commented. I hadn't even checked his Profile page... was actually pretty amazed when I finally did.

          But thanks for your kind words, hun.

          “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

          by Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 05:02:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Weird, this post is timed at 7:53 pm EDT. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo, Cinnamon

          In PA it's 7:41 pm.  Must be the time warp created by light speed skateboard kitteh.  I'll try to calm him down.

          Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

          by Smoh on Sat May 19, 2012 at 04:42:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  LOL - recheck the DATE not jus the time (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roxine

            But I like the idea of teh time warp by skateboard kitteh. Maybe he can take me back to a time before I read that other diary.

            Oh, wow, did I make a joke there? Nah. Impossible. I'm humorless.

            “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

            by Cinnamon on Sun May 20, 2012 at 06:39:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Finally :o) Thanks for the link to Shakesville (7+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cinnamon, Wee Mama, marina, Avilyn, kishik, splashy, Smoh

        I've never heard of it.

        In the recent past, I've facilitated for/supported m/f sexual abuse survivors as well as (completely separate situation) incarcerated men.

        As a society, we are really messed up with our views//outlook/jokes about forced sex of any kind.  Boo.

        Solidarity!

        To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt 1918

        by JVolvo on Fri May 18, 2012 at 05:01:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That blog puts it better than I ever could (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JVolvo, Wee Mama, kishik, splashy, Smoh

          I only wish I could remember how I originally found it, I know it was by clicking a link somewhere else, but I can't remember who's diary it was.

          “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

          by Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 05:04:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  republished to Courtesy Kos (9+ / 0-)

    thank you for the diary Cinnamon. Its really good.

    Yes, it is bread we fight for - but we fight for roses, too!

    by rexymeteorite on Fri May 18, 2012 at 04:09:01 PM PDT

    •  No, thank YOU! (5+ / 0-)

      First, of course, for starting the Courtesy Kos group.

      "Good manners are the foundation of civilization."

      Second, for not kicking me out of it. I was afraid this would come across as some kind of call-out, which was sooo not what I wanted to do. At all. It's really not about ME, though this diary has a lot of I-I-I in it, it's about the good guys out there.

      “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

      by Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 04:25:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good diary. (8+ / 0-)

    I have to admit growing up, I guess particularly as a guy, you wind up hearing jokes like this from people more regularly than you want. And I'll admit to using the word when not appropriate for comparatively stupid and meaningless things. I like to think I improved, though -- I can't remember doing it since high school.

    But if you spend any time around women, in particular, those jokes or even people using that word inappropriately (like "whoa, he just got raped!" in reference to a game or something) tenses them up dramatically.

    A lot of the time nothing will even be said by the person upset by the remark -- but you can sense it. And it's clearly wrong. You can guarantee any other good point you might have been making around it goes out the window.

    It's not worth while in any sense. It diminishes what an awful thing rape is and doesn't do them any favors beyond that. I'm not sure why anyone would continue to include it in general discourse once they knew better.

    •  Thanks softserve. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama, Roxine, Avilyn, splashy, Smoh

      I've been a gamer for 10 years. A friend got me hooked into EverQuest. Before that, the last game I'd played was Centipede, the original arcade version.

      Yes, I'm THAT old. I remember when Mario was a sub-character in Donkey Kong. I rememeber when Asteroids. Came. Out. And it was awesome.

       Just got D3 this week. Love.

      And yeah, people talka lotta smack in-game. I've been in Wow since 4 months after it came out. Been in Guildchat more hours of my life than I'll admit to. Dropped the F-bomb enough times to land me a permanent seat in Purgatory, at least.

      But, while most of it is unconscious... what most players DON'T GET, because they really are too young or too desensitized to understand, is unconscious gay-bashing, that rape talk... back not too long ago, that kind of totally blanal hatespeech was EXACTLY how people spoke in terms of race.  Totally "not meaning anything negative" by it - what's your problem?

      If we're going to evolve, we need to wake up first.

      “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

      by Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 05:18:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I needs to be repeated over and over (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cinnamon, Wee Mama, Roxine, Avilyn, splashy, Smoh

    No means NO!
    there is no, well, she means yes
    if you're gonna play those games, that's what safe words are for...
    if you don't have a safe word, then always No means STOP!
    and it doesn't mean you're not manly if you stop, and it doesn't mean you can ignore it because you're in a relationship
    No means NO!
    and it's not funny if you ignore it

  •  Fight rape humor, boycott Adam Sandler (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cinnamon, Wee Mama, Roxine, Avilyn, splashy, Smoh

    Since the topic of rape humor has been brought up, I'd like to mention that I'm personally hoping everyone possible will boycott Adam Sandler's new movie, 'That's My Boy', which uses the rape of a 13 year old boy by his older teacher (and impregnates her) as the premise and topic for 'humor'. I love the scene in court where an attendant punches the boy in the face for being a dumbass because, you know, he really should have known better.

    With the problems of child abuse in our society, I find this a particularly despicable avenue for humor, and I hope child protection groups will organize a protest campaign ASAP. Interested parties can contact Sony Pictures, Colombia Pictures, and send direct mail to Adam Sandler's company at  jonnyg@adamsandler.com

    Also, radio sportstalk show host Dan Patrick is giving HEAVY promotion to the movie on his radio show and TV broadcast on DirectTV - I find this especially troubling as Dan Patrick gave extended coverage on his outrage over the Jerry Sandusky crimes since the beginning of the story. You can write to Mr. Patrick at  dp@danpatrick.com, and ask him to stop giving promotion to this film, or contact DirectTV and tell them you find the promotion on the TV show unacceptable.

    Romney 2012 - Uh, I'm actually going to to, I'm not familiar precisely with exactly what I said, but I stand by what I said, whatever it was. And with regards to, uh, I'll go back and take at what was said there.

    by Fordmandalay on Fri May 18, 2012 at 06:03:36 PM PDT

    •  Aww damn. I had no idea (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama, Roxine, Avilyn, Smoh

      And I was really looking forward to seeing his next movie, I've been a Sandler fan for years. Thanks for the heads-up, Fordmandalay.

      After I responded to softserve, and read askyrons comment above, it got me thinking of a group of friends I used to game with, our little circle, back in my EverCrack daze. I was tthe only girl in the group (something I've been used to, grew up the only girl in the neighborhood, worked in male-dominated fields most of my life). What hit me was, though they never, never, never talked about it amongst themselves, they all talked with me.... 3 of 5 of the guys had had very Bad Experiences of their own.

      Not their wives. Not their guy-friends, even though the'd each take a bullet for each other, they couldn't ever, talk about "stuff" with each other. ever. half the time I left a dungeon to go craft, it was because someone needed to just unload in message.

      But our generation, the only people they could possibly talk to was someone like me. I was safe, I guess, there was no getting "in trouble" with me, no expectation or need I had that they had to be Big'n'Strong for. Maybe that's part of the reason why I get so mad so fast when good guys get a raw deal... that cultural bullshit that they hafta somehow man up and just take it sticks in my throat like vomit. Instant Mama-Bear Mode.

      I don't even have a son.

      “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

      by Cinnamon on Fri May 18, 2012 at 06:25:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  just saw this... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cinnamon

      yes, I will be boycotting, and writing a diary about this too.

      Please support TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3) for victims and survivors of sexual abuse and exploitation. Also, too, I haz a blog

      by SwedishJewfish on Sat May 19, 2012 at 08:16:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Never fear. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cinnamon, Roxine, Smoh

    The diarist to whom you refer accidentally outed himself in trying to claim he speaks for most all males.  He was just trying to cover over that those sick ideas are his own (apparently regular) ones.

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

    by Neuroptimalian on Fri May 18, 2012 at 10:30:37 PM PDT

  •  Republished to Tree Climbers - (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Avilyn, kishik, Cinnamon, Smoh

    May I request via Kos Mail a link to the "other" diary you speak of?  

    Great diary Cinnamon - sorry I missed it yesterday.  Was on the road and the in the tree house last night.

    Thanks
    Roxine

    "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

    by Roxine on Sat May 19, 2012 at 06:13:51 AM PDT

  •  wtf... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cinnamon, Avilyn

    okay - so I went to search on my own.  all I can say is wtf.

    what resulted from that diary is complete antithesis to what dkos community is about.  It's one thing to say - okay - my diary isn't for you.  But another to completely come out and ridicule an opposing stance!

    Cinnamon - I'm sorry you had to be put through that.  And I cannot believe anyone could see any humor in how that diary presented itself.

    wtf - oh - because it's an established relationship (gf, wife) the woman is just supposed to relax and take the pain so some guy can get his rocks off?  And if only you would relax, being raped anally will feel good?  begeebus.

    All the suffering of this world arises from a wrong attitude.The world is neither good or bad. It is only the relation to our ego that makes it seem the one or the other - Lama Anagorika Govinda

    by kishik on Sat May 19, 2012 at 07:02:51 AM PDT

    •  The sick, twisted thing to me was the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kishik, Avilyn

      Hardee-har-har-AmIrightguys-wink-wink-nudge-nudge tone of it. Like all hetero men act the same way, think the same way, as the author.

      I'm so lucky. I'm surrounded in my life by wonderful, GOOD, loving, honorable men.  My Dad. My brother. My uncles and cousins (I have an enormous extended family on both sides.) My "honorary cousins" who are more like siblings. My sweetie who I live with. Even my exhusband, (though I'd like to bonk him on the head with a salmon sometimes), is a fundamentally decent man who provides amply for and cares deeply about our daughter.

      Having any of them somehow lumped into this guy's worldview is disgusting and wrong.

      And then, of course, the absolute outrage that I was greeted with... including the newly-added opening paragraph turning it into a call-out diary, before I'd even written THIS diary. yeah. That author is not someone I am going to choose to "engage with" in the future.

      Thanks, kishik. Hugs, hun. :)

      “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

      by Cinnamon on Sat May 19, 2012 at 07:56:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I requested he remove the post entirely - (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Smoh, Cinnamon

    "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

    by Roxine on Sat May 19, 2012 at 09:47:15 AM PDT

    •  He certainly found it impossible to step back and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roxine, Cinnamon

      even consider how offensive his writing was.  The was an air of malignant superiority in the air that made it necessary for me to leave quickly.

      Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

      by Smoh on Sat May 19, 2012 at 05:23:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wrote what I thought was a heartfelt response (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cinnamon

        and was told basically to get off my high horse.  

        According to Bill, apparently we just don't "get it" - as opposed to all of the others (I guess he is referring to the EIGHT people who rec'd his diary?)

        I will no longer engage.  I can only assume it's an off day for him.

        He failed to acknowledge the triggers he caused me (and I'm sure several other survivors).  I guess he thinks his writing is more important than the effect that it has on this community.  He is entitled to that belief.

        "...I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul" Invictus - William Ernest Henley Please donate to TREE Climbers, our 501(c)(3).

        by Roxine on Sat May 19, 2012 at 05:48:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for trying (0+ / 0-)

          I went back and read the thread from your link and I thought that if he could still dig in his heels after your comment in particular, Roxine, this is truly a sick individual. There's no ambiguity there. You spelled it out politely, and clearly.

          I am surprized that there's been no administrative comment on this at all. I realize most diaries and diarists are at the good will of the rating system, and that author had built up a positive reputation in the past... but this situation seems pretty ugly to me.

          Sigh. But I'm not "neutral" - lol, obviously. If it was my ban hammer, you all know who woulda gotten bonked. Him and his like-minded fellows.

          “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

          by Cinnamon on Sun May 20, 2012 at 05:24:39 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Reason for joining Daily Kos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cinnamon

    I don't remember how I got here, but I somehow saw this post, read it, checked out Courtesy Kos, and decided to join the site yesterday.

    •  Wow. Welcome! But um... (0+ / 0-)

      I think you'll find this is a wonderful community, Limited Government... but your handle might take some people aback. You do know that THE reason for the site Daily KOS is to work for electing more and better Democratic candidates, right? We have a lot of very, very politically liberal people here.

      Just want to make sure you know  that, because chosing the name you have, it's going to be a red flag to a LOT of folks. "Limited Government" is a Republican talking phrase, and something we're all pretty unthrilled about ... it's what get's said ever time they want to justify NOT passing a new New Deal, or social programs for the underserved, or fixing the country's crumbling infrastructure. It's a hot button. You DO know that right?

      Because for the hundred or so Kossacks who join CourtesyKos, there's literlly THOUSANDS who haven't joined and are going to really, really jump on that handle the minute they see it.

      Just wanted to give you a fair heads-up.

      “Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.” ― Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man Political Compass: -8.50, -6.46

      by Cinnamon on Sun May 20, 2012 at 05:09:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm used to it (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Roxine

        Actually, I get the same thing from the people in the GOP, and even many Ron Paul supporters. I'm either attacked for being perceived as "not limited enough" or for being "too limited".

        The fact is that a philosophy of limited governance doesn't mean one specific thing - it simply means putting restrictions on governmental power and operations. The US Constitution was created with the idea of limited government in mind.

        There are other people besides myself who are interested in seeing a limited government movement within the Democratic party, as well. We're upset that "liberal" has come to mean "not FOX" and that "social program" has come to mean "spend beyond our means to try something out".

        Both Democrats and Republicans have sponsored many of the same destructive policies and growth of federal power that put us in the mess we're in now.

        So, I'm used to getting attacked. I'll keep the name, though, and the local government focus that it originally implied.

        However, my name could just as easily be "LimitedCorporatism". Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich would approve of both names, I think. They agree with me that unchecked governmental power (through subsidies, lobbyist-driven regulation, revolving door politics, etc.) and unchecked corporate power go hand-in-hand.

        Left-leaning independent and limited government advocate. Classical liberal on many issues; social liberal on some others. + Civility first + Follow the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_principle + Constructive comments

        by LimitedGovernment on Sun May 20, 2012 at 07:47:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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