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It's ingrained, taken for granted.

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And then we have this. Such compassion:

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And the man who will condone and perpetuate the inequality:

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Originally posted to Barefoothoofcare on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:47 AM PDT.

Also republished by Income Inequality Kos, DKOMA, ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement, and Protest Music.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Now THIS is the dkos I know and love (14+ / 0-)

    full of ripsote, repartee, and rebuttal!  Well done eXtina!

  •  I dunno (5+ / 0-)

    Even if there was 3 percent unemployment, no housing bust and universal healthcare - the protest of NATO would still have happened.

    People will always be upset with government policies, there will still be violent anarchists and the police will still overreact.

    The WTO protest in Seattle was hardly a product of recession - in fact, it came at the end of a decade of unbelievable growth.

    Does the current economic situation play a role in the events that happened and are happening? Sure - to a extent.

    But this is still pretty tame comparably.

    Power-Worshipping Fascist

    by campionrules on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:55:12 AM PDT

    •  Those protests... (14+ / 0-)

      ...came during a period of growth which saw real wages for working-class people stagnate or FALL while a very few saw there incomes rise significantly.

      WTO policies HURT unions and working people here and exploited 'emerging' economies cheap labor and lax labor / environmental laws. They laid the groundwork for what is now taking place in states like Wisconsin and Ohio.  

    •  Ummm, you're kind of missing the point of the WTO (8+ / 0-)

      protests, no?

      That is the protest having been against the World Trade Organization.

      Poverty was not eliminated during that "unbelievable growth".

      Romney - his fingernails have never been anything but manicured.

      by Pescadero Bill on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:18:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Doesn't make a difference (0+ / 0-)

        No matter what, there will be a core group on the left and right political spectrum that will simply never be happy.

        These groups will always protest, always talk about how their cause is just, and be convinced that what they do somehow makes a difference.

        It's human nature and can be illustrated throughout history.

        My point is simply that while the current economic recession in the U.S. has led to a rise in protests, it is simplistic to assert that those same economic conditions are the root of NATO protest in Chicago.

        Power-Worshipping Fascist

        by campionrules on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:28:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The different protests are siblings (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eXtina, Dirtandiron, 4kedtongue

          They are all crying out against the powerful paternalistic minority who feel that whose with power have the right to exercise that power in any way they see fit, devoid of any sense that power also demands responsibility.

          Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

          by ricklewsive on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:49:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It is also SIMPLISTIC... (6+ / 0-)

          to say there will still be violent anarchists.  Just who the fuck are you applying these far-right Fox News labels to?

          Let's have some fucking perspective.  The United States, at the behest of the corporate overlords, has waged war over the last 50 years in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central America . . . killing countless millions in the process.  And always for the same reasons - in service to the moneyed class.

          Rage is the appropriate response to premeditated, cold-blooded exploitation and murder.  Slapping a fucking anarchist label on it is neither accurate nor helpful.

          I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

          by bobdevo on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:54:40 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Nicely done. (8+ / 0-)

    I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

    by TomP on Mon May 21, 2012 at 09:57:04 AM PDT

  •  sadly (13+ / 0-)

    both those diaries are shading even the specific context. neither is remotely objective, and both reveal more about the diarists and their supporters than about the incident itself, which is not itself fully revealed in the photos. anyway, i personally support this diary...

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:04:16 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for the much bigger picture (4+ / 0-)

    Years and years of income inequality, indefinite war, ever expansive empire do have side effects and across the globe and here at home paint a picture of not just frustration but increasing despair. When our representatives are too gridlocked and/ or corrupt to remedy that plight we must be able to make our case using our first amendment rights.

    Thank you for the perspective, extina

    'Cause the fire in the street, Ain't like the fire in the heart/ And in the eyes of all these people, Don't you know that this could start, On any street in any town ~ FZ

    by cosmic debris on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:05:14 AM PDT

  •  You must remember (8+ / 0-)


    Ft. Dix stockade 1968

    "White-collar conservatives flashing down the street. Pointing their plastic finger at me."

    by BOHICA on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:05:43 AM PDT

  •  This "context" of yours (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark

    legitimises violence against police officers?????????? So in other words youre saying its ok for you and yours to be thugs because Your  cause is Just!!!

    Remember reading about those extremist Idiots who turned a lot of america Against the 60's justice movements by basically being spoiled thug morons??? Getting flashbacks to reading that  stuff.

    I have CLOSE friends and family who are cops. A lot of them. I have a very right wing cop friend who gave me crap because he voted AGAINST the NC gay marriage amendment. When i have  to defend shit like this to him... it embarasses me.

    A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

    by cdreid on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:10:46 AM PDT

    •  No. (15+ / 0-)

      Pointing out the factors that cause people to revolt is a call to change the factors. Improve people's lives. It does not legitimize violence. That is a leap.

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:14:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's Rationalising the violence (0+ / 0-)

        You have fun with that.... and with being dishonest and pretending it isnt.

        A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

        by cdreid on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:34:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  NO. It's not. I'm not condoning the violence (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dilutedviking, dotdot

          I'm not even talking about it. I'm asking people to reconsider the circumstances that cause people to act out in such a manner, because these circumstances are taken as the

          STATUS QUO

          No one question it any more, just accepts it.

          Families living in motels - the school bus stops at the motel to take the kids to school. It's a part of the fabric of our society.

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:43:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're saying (0+ / 0-)

            as you keep reiterating without somehow realising it...

            That its ok and excuseable to assault a police officer.. because people are poor...

            Those people who marched with mlk? Hell of a lot poorer. Hell of a lot worse off. Hell of a lot more assaulted by society than some 22yo white middle class stoner attending a march.

            MLK took a bullet. Knew it was coming. And preached to those who followed them that they should never raise that stick.

            A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

            by cdreid on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:55:28 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  MLK is a better man than many (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cdreid, eXtina

              If a cop tries to beat me with a billy club for no reason, I'm likely to go down swinging. If a cop treats me non-violently, I will respond the same.

              •  From what i saw (0+ / 0-)

                The cop was fairly peacable... the protestors were shoving into the police lines.. some were specifically using gestures intended to be psychologically threatening and cause over response... this redneck moron starts hitting him in the head with a stick.. he shoves a lady back.. another cop swings at a guy hitting him in the head...

                So tell me where in that scenario youre "defending yourself"? YOU arent the problem. The problem is little wannabe thugs who want to get violent then scream that the police were mean to him. I feel bad about that woman. And about the guy who got hit in the protest. Its a damn shame the perpetrator (moron with stick) didnt take the hit and spend time for assault on a police officer.

                A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

                by cdreid on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:19:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I understand how you feel, but if you hit back (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                eXtina

                (in their minds anyway) you are giving them an excuse to really hurt or kill you. Better to not fight back, and call a lawyer as soon as possible. Take pictures of all your injuries and get medical help right away.

                Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

                by Dirtandiron on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:26:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Mopst of these guys (0+ / 0-)

                  are taking out their impotent fantasies because they fear police.. or have gotten a ticket.. or theyve stereotyped all cops as somehow evil. Theyre children.

                  A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

                  by cdreid on Tue May 22, 2012 at 01:32:15 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Could be. I don't know, I can't read anyone's mind (0+ / 0-)

                    I just don't think it's a good idea to fight with the cops. It would only lead to more trouble. (It's a felony around here) It's lose, lose for everyone involved.  A better way would be to contact the ACLU, or someone like that. Nonviolent resistance.  Ask the British Empire about Ghandi. He sent them packing.

                    Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

                    by Dirtandiron on Tue May 22, 2012 at 02:12:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  So you're saying it's okay for 1% to (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dilutedviking, LeftOverAmerica

      have 23% to earn all the income? That's the leap of logic I could make if I used your logic.

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:16:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I have/had friends and family that are/were police (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eXtina, cdreid, Anak, NYFM, Dirtandiron, wu ming

      officers and many liked to joke about beating protesters. Not all, but many. There tends to be a macho authoritarian bent to the people that become indoctrinated into law enforcement organizations.

      Just sayin'

      Though to be up front, I have no compassion for anarchists. And I damn well understand the need for law enforcement and the concept of 'protect and serve'.

      Romney - his fingernails have never been anything but manicured.

      by Pescadero Bill on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:24:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oh boy. (4+ / 0-)

      Some cops are thugs too. Some cops lie, some cops are abusive, some cops steal and cheat. If you think otherwise, you are naive, or just turning a blind eye.

    •  Uh, didn't the American Revolution establish (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eXtina, LeftOverAmerica

      violence against uniformed enforcers of the Crown is legitimate?  In 1776 it was redcoats; now it's bluecoats.  Same thugs.

      I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

      by bobdevo on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:58:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you're openly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron

        calling for violence against police? Cause.. these folks are defending something wrong but theyre not doing that. That will get your ass banned here so fast its not funny.

        And the revolution did no such thing. Once the colonies declared their independance the british became a foreign army on the soil of the federation.

        A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

        by cdreid on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:03:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not calling for anything. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eXtina

          I'm merely saying that when violent protest occurs, the label of "patriot" or "terrorist" is determined after the fact by the winner.

          I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

          by bobdevo on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:05:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There are no terrorists here (0+ / 0-)

            There are american citizens taking advantage of their Duty to protest what they see as wrong politically. There are police officers sworn to protect those people, everyone else, and society as a whole attempting to prevent riots, violence, theft, looting.

            And you just implied that violence against them.. and in that particular implication.. lethal violence.. is acceptable..

            It is a sad day when the people who make pretense at being the peaceful moral guardians find excuse to do violence to people attempting to keep violence from happening.

            A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

            by cdreid on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:14:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What I said - but did not imply - (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              eXtina

              is that the foundational behavior upon which our country came into existence was violent protest against the then legitimate authority.  As Mr. Franklin noted:


              We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
              And if you look at the history of social protest in this country - from the Boston Massacre to the Ludlow Massacre to the Kent State Massacre - it becomes pretty clear who the perpetrators of real violence are.

              I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

              by bobdevo on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:35:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That isnt the case here though (0+ / 0-)

                you just have a lot of... 17yo's who "hate the man" and "wanna get him" spouting garbage. IM the first to say a cop beating an innocent needs his ass kicked. But this wasnt that. And frankly watch a few more videos you'll be shocked at the techniques some of those people used to intimidate (yup) and antagonise the police.

                A man is born as many men but dies as a single one.--Martin Heidegger

                by cdreid on Tue May 22, 2012 at 01:24:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not a fan of a lot (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eXtina

        of the police behavior I've seen on video. But that being said, if you hit the police, you are giving them an excuse (if only in their own heads) to hurt you a lot worse. (or call in reinforcements at the very least) And when that happens, innocent and/or uninvolved bystanders are likely to be hurt or arrested as well.  Ghandi is a good role model in that situation. He did not knuckle under to unjust authorities, but he did not attack them either. Look at what he accomplished.

        Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

        by Dirtandiron on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:34:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  it was a NATO protest (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina

    or were they protesting the fact that the rich got all the money and the rest of us are left to fight over the scraps while we call each other names and blames?

    As a nation, the U.S. consumes the most hot dogs per capita. So you'd be wise to never underestimate our powers of denial.

    by jbou on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:22:12 AM PDT

  •  That cop getting hit over the head? (0+ / 0-)

    He didn't cause any of the problems you picture, and police per se don't cause those problems, either.

    So, I pronounce "fail" upon your diary.

    Or, to put it another way, if social injustice and economic hard times justify beating cops over the head, they also justify beating undocumented immigrants up, men taking out their frustrations on their wives and kids, and so on.

    Yes, people are angry. Yes, the system is corrupt.

    No, you don't beat police over the head with sticks to express your anger at the injustice.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:44:29 AM PDT

    •  No, you don't (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BradyB, dotdot
      Yes, people are angry. Yes, the system is corrupt.

      No, you don't beat police over the head with sticks to express your anger at the injustice.

      Sorry you missed the point of the diary - how about some efforts be focused on solving the problems of inequality rather than just tolerating them as the status quo.

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:47:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fine. That's why I'm here, solving the problems (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eXtina

        Beating cops does nothing to solve those problems, and turns Joe Sixpack against those trying to solve them.

        So, against, diary fail. To solve the problems you depict, random violence at street protests is unhelpful.

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

        by blue aardvark on Mon May 21, 2012 at 10:54:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That was hardly a beating. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eXtina

      You are being hyperbolic.

      •  Well, OK (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eXtina

        One blow does not a beating make, and that stick was not a heavy weapon.

        OTOH, someone else punched him. And he was knocked to his knees somehow, which indicates it was not a gentle exchange of opinions.

        I'm going to stand by my main point, though - nothing exTina showed in her diary justifies random violence at street protests. That is not helpful to progressive causes.

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

        by blue aardvark on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:09:05 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Fair enough. n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          eXtina, blue aardvark
        •  Again, it's not meant to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          wu ming
          nothing exTina showed in her diary justifies random violence at street protests
          It's decrying the inequality and hardship that provides the environment for a protest to be necessary in the first place.

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:26:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is a NATO gathering (0+ / 0-)

            The relationship between the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and hardship is tangential at best.

            We have a series of diaries and you seem to have muddled the issue. (1) police brutality. (2) protesters provoked police response. Now (3) protests are necessary.

            I see a clear relationship between (1) and (2). That protests are necessary does not seem to be closely related to how either police, or protesters, should conduct themselves at said protests.

            In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

            by blue aardvark on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:39:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  billions of dollars for war (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              eXtina

              means insufficient funds for responding to economic collapse.

              •  And NATO is the only cause of military spending? (0+ / 0-)

                In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

                by blue aardvark on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:52:31 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Binary nt (0+ / 0-)

                  "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

                  by eXtina on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:53:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  right now it's running the afghan war, so relevent (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  blue aardvark, eXtina

                  when you've got all the generals and politicians in one place, it's a reasonable venue for giving them a peace of your mind. additionally, this was supposed to be a meeting for the g-8 too, before obama changed the location (a decision that i think was sound for diplomatic reasons, even as i also support the protests against them. this isn't a binary matter here).

                  when and where do you feel that it is appropriate to protest the way that the military budget devours the commonweal and ruins the lives of american soldiers and foreign civilians alike with its incessant wars of occupation?

                  •  Anywhere and everywhere (0+ / 0-)

                    This remains a discussion of the diarist's conflation of the violence that erupted between the protesters and police with injustice.

                    That we need to protest does not mean that we need to whack policemen with sticks.

                    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

                    by blue aardvark on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:59:22 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Mohandas Gandhi worked to free the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, Dirtandiron

    people of India from British Rule for many years. Given the title Mahatma (Great Soul) he wasn't just a spiritual leader. Trained as a lawyer in Great Britain, he became a shrewd politician. With the enormous population of India, he might have called for an armed uprising, but wisely chose the path of non-violence.

    Some Gandhi quotes:

    The cry for peace will be a cry in the wilderness, so long as the spirit of nonviolence does not dominate millions of men and women.

    "Hate the sin and not the sinner" is a precept which, though easy enough to understand, is rarely practiced, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world.

    We need to be the change we wish to see in the world.

    An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so. Now the law of nonviolence says that violence should be resisted not by counter-violence but by nonviolence. This I do by breaking the law and by peacefully submitting to arrest and imprisonment.

    Now me: I stand for social justice and non-violence.

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:12:24 PM PDT

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