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For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
Everybody in Wisconsin and online did a hell of a job.  Pat yourself on the back, because I can't reach out and pat it enough for you.  

But now let's take time to understand why we lost.  It wasn't just because of a nail.  And it wasn't all the Koch Brothers.  Try to remember back to early 2011, when this was the message of party insider strategist Mudcat Saunders:

Would Democrats Have Been Better Off Letting Scott Walker's Bill Pass?

   In an interview with The Huffington Post, David "Mudcat" Saunders, a longtime Democratic political strategist known for his work with blue-collar voters, had a different take. Rather than worrying about floodgates bursting open, he argued that the best public relations move for the Democrats would have been to simply let Walker's bill pass and then demonize it.

    "Sometimes the best punch you can throw is to let somebody throw theirs first," Saunders said. "I would have debated it forever, as long as I could have kept it going, and I would have voted against it. Let the Republicans have their way and then work on getting the state house back and the governor's mansion. But a protest, that can only work so long."

In the same Sam Stein article, he quotes an AFL-CIO official responding to Saunders' comments:

"I really do disagree with what he was talking about it," Karen Ackerman, political director for the AFL-CIO, said of Saunders' remarks. "In my experience, it is very important for people to fight back no matter what the odds are, because people start to feel empowered."

Ackerman added that "all eyes are on Wisconsin."

Some people get the importance of fighting back.  Some don't.  The ones who don't... well, unfortunately, they are often the ones on the inside while the rest of us on the outside stand perplexed, not understanding the kung-fu brilliance of losing as a strategy.

Now, let's compare that to the strategy of the right.  Their strategy was to seize the initiative, to exploit the opportunity when it's available.  In Walker's case, that meant breaking up the public unions.  As we all know, it wasn't a legislative cost-saving move but a political move.  Disenfranchised union workers are less politically organized, less likely to be mobilized voters, a mobilized voting group disproportionately Democratic.  From a pure strategy point of view, it was a good plan.  They wanted to raze the ground and burn the Democratic crops, like Sherman marching to the sea.

Now, imagine if a Confederate general had said, "Sure, let that Yankee Sherman burn the crops.  It's just going to make the citizenry madder at them!  We might even get more recruits out of this!"  That's the Saunders position.

Any Confederate general who said that would have been, of course, a moronic asshole.  He could have felt comfortable sitting on his horse and pontificating that way because they weren't his crops, and they weren't being farmed by his troops.  However, no such general existed, because no general was that far removed from the people he was supposed to be fighting for.  The strategic implications, too, were profound.  Without crops, families starve.  When families starve, they have less money to contribute to the cause to pay for bullets.  When families starve, they can't send their few remaining working-age men to fight for the Confederacy.  Sherman understood this.  

Mudcat Saunders was like that imaginary general, though.  Wisconsin wasn't his fight.  If Walker succeeds, eh, well, maybe the losers will become more activated Democrats.  We'll give them sympathy and only token support.

Chairwoman of the DNC Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's comments just two weeks ago.  Wisconsin recall: DNC’s Debbie Wasserman Schultz sees no national impact if Democrats lose:

The chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee said Friday that if Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett (D) doesn’t prevail over Gov. Scott Walker (R) in next month’s Wisconsin recall election, there won’t be any ramifications for Democrats nationally.

“I think, honestly, there aren’t going to be any repercussions,” Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) said in a broad-ranging interview on C-SPAN’s “Newsmakers.”

“It’s an election that’s based in Wisconsin. It’s an election that I think is important nationally because Scott Walker is an example of how extreme the tea party has been when it comes to the policies that they have pushed the Republicans to adopt,” Wasserman Schultz said. “But I think it’ll be, at the end of the day, a Wisconsin-based election, and like I said, across the rest of the country and including in Wisconsin, President Obama is ahead.”

There are two elements to this statement.  First there is the boilerplate Scott Walker is a bad man.  Tea party, tea party.  And then there's the, "Oh well, doesn't matter to us in the long run, anyway.  It's not our crops they're burning."  

Perhaps she thought two weeks ago the recall was a lost cause and wanted to distance herself from it to save face.  

Compare that to the Republicans.  The title of this diary is "Why we lost; Why they won."  So let's consider what was happening on the Republican side while the DNC watched all this through a telescope as if it was a hurricane on Jupiter.  The Republicans mobilized, just like we did.  But they mobilized their party, they mobilized their donors, they didn't do it in a half-assed cover your ass way where their ego wasn't on the line.  They doubled down on Scott Walker.  They showed no weakness.  They played to won, and, ultimately, they won.  The people on our side fighting so hard felt only a token wind at their back.

EXCLUSIVE: Wisconsin Dems furious with DNC for refusing to invest big money in Walker recall:

Top Wisconsin Democrats are furious with the national party — and the Democratic National Committee in particular — for refusing their request for a major investment in the battle to recall Scott Walker, I’m told.

The failure to put up the money Wisconsin Dems need to execute their recall plan comes at a time when the national Republican Party is sinking big money into defending Walker, raising fears that the DNC’s reluctance could help tip the race his way.

“We are frustrated by the lack of support from the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Governors Association,” a top Wisconsin Democratic Party official tells me. “Scott Walker has the full support and backing of the Republican Party and all its tentacles. We are not getting similar support.”

“Considering that Scott Walker has already spent $30 million and we’re even in the polls, this is a winnable race,” the Wisconsin Dem continues. “We can get outspent two to one or five to one. We can’t get spent 20 to one.”

The defense of the DNC would be that: 1) They did give some money support, eventually, after saying that it didn't REALLY matter to them if Walker was defeated.  They coughed that money up reluctantly after having been shamed over it.  

And: 2) It really didn't matter anyway because they saw the numbers a long time ago and their crystal ball said that it wasn't winnable, so, again, why waste good money?  The DNC works so hard begging for money from its donors; why waste it on dumb campaigns that don't affect those of us sitting in our plush offices directly, right this minute?

There is no such thing, really as a crystal ball.  There is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy.  There are polls that showed it was difficult, but even the polls showed it close.  

What really happened here is that there were no big DNC cronies with careers on the line in Wisconsin.  It wasn't Wisconsin's money.  It was their money.  That's why they dithered.  

For anybody reading this that thinks the Democratic Party establishment really does worry about spending money on campaigns that can't win, I have two words for you: Blanche Lincoln.

In 2010, Blanche Lincoln ran for reelection and was opposed in the primary by a more progressive (but not ideal) candidate, Bill Halter who was beating her in the polls.  The DSCC stepped in and wasted money in the primaries to support Blanche Lincoln over Bill Halter, even though it was a primary -- meaning, whoever won, it would be a Democrat!  Their argument for doing so at the time was that Blanche would be the better candidate in November, even though all the early polls showed Blanche losing big.  And she did.  She lost big.  

Towards the end, as Blache's numbers plummeted, as the recriminations began, and it was hard to avoid the obvious, the Robert Menendez at the DSCC hedged on how much money he would invest in Blanche in the closing days.  As Sam Seder at the time said, though:

OLBERMANN: In a bigger picture, the election cycle was obviously unfavorable to incumbents long before the last couple of weeks when the polls got so dramatic in Arkansas. Is the Democratic party, the hierarchy, now going to wish that it had not so automatically backed incumbent during the primary phase, and, as you suggest, listened to the base or just listened to what was being said about Blanche Lincoln in Arkansas?

SEDER: I suppose, but I can‘t imagine they‘re going to admit that. I mean, the fact is that the base was basically supporting a guy like Halter not just because he was more progressive, but because they saw him he had a better chance of winning. So now they‘re stuck with Blanche Lincoln, and, you know, she‘s off voting against health care, voting against—or to maintain George Bush‘s tax cuts. I would hope they had some remorse, but I can‘t imagine they would ever express it.

Nope.  No remorse.  

And I have two more words: Ben Nelson:

DSCC Wastes $1 Million in Ads on Retiring Ben Nelson
By: David Dayen Tuesday December 27, 2011 11:15 am    

Ben Nelson, Nebraska’s Democratic senator, will retire from the Senate next year, despite benefiting from a million dollars in early-cycle advertising funded by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

I hope we can see from this that when it comes to certain people and certain causes, the Democratic Party pulls out all the stops.  They spend it in ways that are not related to any strategy of furthering progressive goals or shoring up progressive long term assets like union organization and GOTV.  This isn't about strategy to them.  It's about control.  

So when you look at the Republicans gleefully celebrating, give them credit, because this is a massive victory for them.  They didn't just win handily.  They saved a hero, a man who stood up to the unions and didn't flinch, a man who, while divisive, divided things correctly as far as they were concerned.  And he's just one of many to come.  Because if you can get away with this shit in Wisconsin, as mad as people were there, and if you can get away with this without the Democratic Party even really putting its ego on the line...  Well, keep on going.  To the sea, if necessary.

I raised the image earlier of a Confederate general on his horse on a hill watching the Sherman's Union soldiers raze the fields.  Imagine now a woman, down there in the fields, her fields, looking up, and seeing that general on his horse, shrugging, saying, "I guess shit happens.  Madame, you have my sympathy."

There was talk on CNN today with Democratic experts like Paul Begala addressing the issue of whether what happened today in Wisconsin would affect Obama in November.  The somewhat strained consensus of the Democratic experts was, naw...  Wisconsin ALWAYS votes Democratic in presidential elections.  

It votes Democratic because of unions and grass roots GOTV organizing.  The money and effort that they DID NOT put into Wisconsin today would have gone to strengthening and shoring up that organization.  You can be quite certain that the Republicans, who busted their asses on this election, built up their Wisconsin organization.  That's permanent asset-building.  The Democratic Party saw no value in it.

That's why they won.  That's why we lost.  Koch brothers, Citizen United: all of them are less important than you really think.  You can't win if your party doesn't think it's important enough to really try.

Originally posted to Dumbo on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 07:57 PM PDT.

Also republished by Badger State Progressive, ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement, Progressive Hippie, and German American Friendship Group.

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  •  Tip Jar (277+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raboof, coquiero, Shahryar, domestic goddess, blueoregon, tea in the harbor, palantir, Only Needs a Beat, kbman, joanneleon, psnyder, dotsright, cosette, defluxion10, debaseTheBase, Jazzenterprises, millwood, 2laneIA, Eddie C, tardis10, Panacea Paola, Haningchadus14, kevin k, coachster, elengul, ceebee7, frandor55, kurt, Lujane, Irons33, revsue, Kentucky Kid, science nerd, billlaurelMD, thepook, fhcec, The Angry Architect, hyperstation, Ignacio Magaloni, JClarkPDX, Miggles, Habitat Vic, zedaker, Sunspots, DavidW, LeighAnn, RainyDay, Hayate Yagami, Son of a Cat, Cardinal96, pot, LynChi, tikkun, Jackson L Haveck, Unitary Moonbat, Jim P, bread, KJG52, hungrycoyote, Cat Servant, bnasley, bibble, slatsg, RFK Lives, bluestatedem84, ffour, KayCeSF, stormicats, martyc35, Just Bob, joedemocrat, Meteor Blades, splintersawry, NoMoreLies, xynz, splashoil, joanil, draghnfly, MisterOpus1, DirkFunk, fiddlingnero, TDDVandy, cap76, blueoasis, musicsleuth, 3goldens, NotGeorgeWill, chickeee, emmasnacker, wu ming, monroematt, HarpboyAK, wader, prettygirlxoxoxo, Mr Horrible, Black Kos, Dburn, paulitics, Akonitum, Freakinout daily, ChocolateChris, LLPete, Crabby Abbey, NewDealer, WaryLiberal, guinea, SD Goat, BlackQueen40, chuckvw, DaveinBremerton, SueM1121, Ekaterin, ferg, AaronInSanDiego, wxorknot, Andrew M, Audio Guy, puakev, vivian darkbloom, Sapere aude, xanamanax, lineatus, sephius1, Simplify, Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle, Califlander, greenpunx, sap, Drocket, nicolemm, apimomfan2, LillithMc, commonmass, priceman, sawgrass727, Dopeman, Lily O Lady, fixxit, TheMomCat, VTelder, jayden, tin woodswoman, Square Knot, BrooklynJohnny, BusyinCA, shanikka, Laborguy, NYFM, Mentatmark, Assaf, greengemini, NBBooks, DarkestHour, mookins, buckstop, Dirtandiron, eleming, histOries Marko, uciguy30, Ozzie, sideboth, dirkster42, expatjourno, Alumbrados, WisePiper, DRo, JanetT in MD, ozsea1, SeattleTammy, SaintDharma32, poligirl, Oaktown Girl, mjfgates, Mimikatz, Mollydog, Nebraskablue, auroreden, Bluerall, tegrat, MindRayge, pHunbalanced, erush1345, OleHippieChick, yoduuuh do or do not, praenomen, PinHole, Mother Mags, molunkusmol, seeking justice, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, Simian, HCKAD, Floande, radarlady, beforedawn, Hatrax, riverlover, Williston Barrett, sailmaker, forbodyandmind, ER Doc, shortgirl, WI Deadhead, David Futurama, banjolele, Dave in Northridge, A FIB in Cheddarland, Burned, Joe Willy, journalschism, boofdah, Steven D, beverlywoods, 207wickedgood, Quicklund, merrily1000, a2nite, marleycat, annecros, Geenius at Wrok, dance you monster, Florene, JayDean, jts327, semiot, letsgetreal, cslewis, LeftHandedMan, Jennifer Clare, DuzT, PBen, chipmo, PhilJD, Voodoo, Mother Shipper, Desert Rose, kestrel9000, Smoh, Marihilda, ratzo, Broke And Unemployed, Big River Bandido, caul, Radiowalla, adrianrf, CarolinW, frankzappatista, greenbell, aznavy, childrens DO learn, Robynhood too, Xapulin, bluehen96, Old Iowa Liberal, conniptionfit, Brooke In Seattle, profundo, llbear, trumpeter, UncleCharlie, Diane Chambers, absdoggy, lostinamerica, Catte Nappe, Phoebe Loosinhouse, felix19, the greasybear, Calvino Partigiani, pademocrat, redlum jak, biggiefries, TexDemAtty, humphrey, sparko, StellaRay, VClib, Zera Lee
    •  Money isn't the answer (105+ / 0-)

      It's creating a coherent strategy.  It's giving a shit about who wins and who loses after the votes are counted.

      When Howard Dean ran the DNC, it fought for Democrats everywhere.  Dean understood that the progressive ideals were better for white-collar salaried workers as well as blue-collar hourly employees, for men and women, white and black, North, South, East and West.  We won in 2006 and in 2008 because we were willing to fight for progressive values everywhere and people believed in us.

      Unfortunately, when the President came in, he brought the old DLC crowd to run the party.  The DLC has always been about playing defense and conserving resources and protecting incumbents -- not fighting to spread progressive values.  They give the overwhelming imression that they simply do not care about how the elections affect actual people.  

      That was what was so devastating about Wasserman-Schultz's comments.  She basically acted as though the people of Wisconsin who fought and who organized and who gave their all to turn back the Walker agenda weren't worth her concern -- that she had better things to do than to fight alongside the Democrats of Wisconsin.

      Maybe she does.  If so, she should get to it, and bring back Howard Dean.

      "Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense." Steve Landesberg, 1945-2010.

      by Califlander on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:12:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perfect comment (38+ / 0-)

        Today's slaughter of progressives has nothing to do with the amount of money spent by Walker.

        It goes to the very root of the current Democratic establishment.

        They are working for the exact same people as Bush, and the Republicans.

        Wasserman-Schultz is not a friend to progressives, and does not deserve the support of any progressive.

        She is a center right pol who works for the financial elite.

        This elections proves that getting behind these stiff's, Obama, Wasserman-Schultz, and their ilk, is subversive to progressive ideology and our cause.

        If this site really is about "electing Democrats" at any cost, then you are just electing and supporting 1971 Republican Nixon level ideologues, who are carry the vision that William F Buckley laid out in 1958.

        I am astounded by the transformation of this website I joined in 2005 that was full of progressive idealism, which is now a mouthpiece for the dead William F Buckley!

        Fucking pathetic.

        •  it's interesting (6+ / 0-)

          That nobody yet said "the people have spoken".

          It's always "the people have been misled by the Koch's millions".

          Oh, pfeh.

          This is a partisan site, a Democratic site, yes. But that's Kos's thing to manage and maintain. That's his problem.

          Yet he does maintain an open forum. And in this forum, where's an attempt to understand another side, rather than demonize it?

          Downthread, everyone is a problem -- Barrett listed his sports team on his site ahead of whatever other bullshit the poster expected; or Howard Dean's political future is exhumed, etc.

          Do you think that at some point people don't give a flying fuck about 'more and better democrats fighting about who is a morer or betterer democrat'?

          Then there's http://www.dailykos.com/... which is not really clear if it's an Agent Provocateur or a product of some education system that demands no standards.

          Seriously...

          Sometimes you fucking lose, and it's not because the other side cheated.

          It's because you fucked up.

          And, no, the world did not fuck up. You did.

        •  What crap (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          charliehall2

          Most voters simply disagree with recalls unless there is official misconduct (i.e. breaking the law). You can cry and scream all you like about how you was robbed and how bad "the stiffs" are for "progressive ideology and our cause" all you like, but you are simply bee living your own spin and not dealing with reality.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

          by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:08:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The GOP did a recall in Calfornia.. and won... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Brooke In Seattle, debedb

            I lived there when Gray Davis was recalled due to having committed the crime of being boring.  It was clearly all a ruse to get Arnie in as governor.

            My hubby was registered GOP at the time, so I got to see their flyers, mailers, GOTV efforts firsthand.  I must tell you they were amazing.  Multicolored posters, doorknob hangers... all in full color.  There was a "block captain" in our neighborhood who approached my husband every week before the election - and then showed up that morning with a map showing him where to vote and asking if he needed a ride.

            I later collected all the materials that my husband received from the GOP over a two year period, as well as what I had received from the Democratic Party.  I sent all of it to Howard Dean - and asked why the GOP's materials were far better, more professional, and came much more often.

            Dr. Dean wrote me a letter saying he was concerned, would take my materials to his next meeting, and also apologized.  Honestly, I don't think the Democratic Party realizes how unorganized they appear from the outside.  I thought Obama's organization would result in better, but it seems it's become all about focusing on the presidency - and little on other offices and issues that matter...

            We cannot solve the problems that we have created with the same thinking that created them." - Albert Einstein

            by CarolinW on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:51:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Fact are, in WISCONSIN (0+ / 0-)

              60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

              cheers,

              Mitch Gore

              Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

              by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:10:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's how Californians believed... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sparko

                But the GOP sure knows how to control the narrative, create a message, work in lockstep - and shift the tide in their direction.  Remember, we are talking about a more liberal state voting to put in a GOP governor through a recall...  That is no easy feat.

                If the Democratic Party had put out that type of effort in Wisconsin, and actually showed support for unions, yesterday would have had a different outcome.  

                We cannot solve the problems that we have created with the same thinking that created them." - Albert Einstein

                by CarolinW on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:48:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  In fact, this was the first unsuccessful one (0+ / 0-)

            for governor.  So no--that meme is not worthy of repeating.  Money mattered.   Too many lies left unrebutted gave us Bush II.

            •  out of how many total? (0+ / 0-)

              like, 2 successful, 1 failed? That's the lie you're rebutting?

              That's like stats baseball commentators like to throw out, he's batting 0.243 against left-handed pitchers in 5th inning with one on and less than 40,000 fans in the stadium in july. Never mind that there's only been 2 such occurrences. Statistically meaningless drivel, good for filling up air time but the innumerate public loves "stats". Dunno why.

              •  Looking at California with the Gropenfuhrer (0+ / 0-)

                You can see that the logic was flawed.    Walker drummed out his disinformation since December almost unrebutted and it mattered.  Now we can say, Wisconsin is the only state to unsuccessfully recall a governor.  Wisconsin gets  a million recall signatures and fails--that is a shit kicker of a loss that is rooted in media imbalance.

                •  Gropenfuhrer? (0+ / 0-)

                  I'll leave that on your conscience. You should say that to Arnie's face, that would be cool. I'd pay to see that.

                  Now, to the point. Wait a second -- what was the point?

                  The number of recall signatures? According to what number? Are they legitimate? Did the guy get elected legitimately or not?

                  I get it you don't like Walker. Many people don't. So what? That's freaking democracy for you.

        •  And this (0+ / 0-)
          I am astounded by the transformation of this website I joined in 2005 that was full of progressive idealism, which is now a mouthpiece for the dead William F Buckley!

          Fucking pathetic.

          became your last words on Daily Kos.

          Buh-bye !

          You may not pretend to be someone else, claim to be a race or gender or class or nationality you are not. Hunter

          by Mariken on Thu Jun 07, 2012 at 05:11:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe they give the impression (27+ / 0-)

        that they don't give a shit about progressive values, because they actually don't give a shit about progressive values.  

        Why?  Because, maybe they are in the pocket of big business almost as much as Republicans are.  

        Establishment Democrats weren't about to make fighting big business interests a part of their campaigns.  They are more than willing to just concede the Governorship, instead of biting the hand that feeds.

        •  We need 100% public financed elections (6+ / 0-)
        •  My vote for these people when they come (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          merrily1000, PhilJD, caul

          up for re-election: No confidence. We need new leadership.

          There is no such thing, really as a crystal ball.  There is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy.  There are polls that showed it was difficult, but even the polls showed it close.

          Thanks. Great diary.

          •  You're assuming that we even had 'old' (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mightymouse, caul, greenbell

            leadership. We don't.

            We need new leadership.

            "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

            by Bluefin on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:23:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We did NOT lose tonight. (11+ / 0-)

              This was a recall election. They were defending six seats which we managed to get onto the ballot.

                 WE won a Senate seat. John Lehman defeated Van Wanggaard, meaning the Democrats now control the Senate.

                 They spent $40 million on just Walker, and he's under two separate criminal investigations which he managed to hold off until after the recall election.
                  All they bought there was a bit of time for their de-clawed figurehead for as long as he can hold on before being utterly disgraced.
                 And Election Day is five months away!

              "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

              by elwior on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:28:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Every time I checked John Lehman was behind, (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Desert Rose

                although some of the posts were hopeful.
                That's great news if he won, like you say (and I donated to him twice, among several others). It will be a large roadblock for the Rescummies.

                The $40Mil is nothing (to them), the bragging rights alone make it worth it.
                If Walker goes down on an indictment, that will be most great news, but I'm not at all optimistic about that bearing fruit (Fitzmas was a disappointment too).

                As far as it being just 'recall elections', they count just as much as a regular one, or even more; and the two big ones skated.

                "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

                by Bluefin on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 04:11:40 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Oh, forgot, my comment was about the lack of (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                greenbell

                national leadership, I stand by that as I have for at least three years, I have little confidence in BO domestically.

                "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

                by Bluefin on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 04:15:01 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  I think it's about fear. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boofdah, semiot, caul

          I feel that the vote in Wisconsin is similar to the vote in Ireland embracing the punishing austerity that so far has gained them nothing.
          The people on this site have not "fucked up". They are by nature activists or they wouldn't be here. The majority of Democrats are like the non-Tea Party Republicans: scared witless of revolutionary (rather than evolutionary) change.
          The vulture capitalists know enough to take advantage of this. People will actually vote against their self interest if it involves torches and pitchforks.

          "There's a crack in everything; that's how the light gets in". Leonard Cohen

          by northsylvania on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 03:37:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Certainly couldn't be the voters spoke (0+ / 0-)

          And that they don't support the idea of recalls unless there is criminal misconduct involved by the person being recalled. (rolls eyes)

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

          by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:10:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  is it any wonder ... (5+ / 0-)

        why DWS' home state is controlled by a criminal .. and his fellow hacks?

      •  Yeah. The czar had way more money (7+ / 0-)

        than the Bolsheviks. Money is important but it's not the only thing. What WI really tells us is that Governor recalls are rare because it's a very steep hill to climb.

        The universe may have a meaning and a purpose, but it may just specifically not include you.

        by Anne Elk on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:51:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Can't have too much Democracy in the Dem Party (5+ / 0-)

        No siree, those local yokels can't be entrusted with their own fate. They'll screw it up, and even if they don't... they'll get the wrong idea.

        Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

        by Simplify on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:58:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Dean got it, Kossack commenters don't (0+ / 0-)

        Dean understood that you need to fight everywhere, and that means running serious candidates everywhere. That means conservative candidates in conservative districts. Most Kossack commenters, however, hate blue dogs with a passion usually reserved for Republicans. Well, Gene Taylor and Chet Edwards voted with us 30% of the time and they were replaced with crazies who vote with us 0% of the time. Politics is the art of the possible and the zeitgeist here is to make the perfect the enemy of the possible.

    •  Money just buys propaganda and (13+ / 0-)

      propaganda is the key. Until we can shut down the propaganda machine, we cannot win. We have to find a way to direct people's attention to the man behind the curtain. Then the wizard will lose his power.

      "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

      by Lily O Lady on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:52:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  christianity is 2000 years old (11+ / 0-)

        for 2000 years it has been promising something you don't get until you die

        the people who fall for the GOP sale pitch are not exactly known for their ability to accept reality just because someone exposed the man behind the curtain

        i think my cat is possessed by dick cheney

        by Anton Bursch on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:15:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK. Forget the metaphor. We have to (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Smoh, mkor7

          find a way to counter massive waves of propaganda. It's worked to keep people in power in Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Communist China among other nations.  Those seeking power will do whatever it takes to get it. They know they want power because they want to wield power. That is the source of their strength.

          Let's not get sidetracked by a discussion on how many non-existence angels are not actually dancing on the head of a pin. We need to focus on how to stop this inexorable power grab by an already powerful plutocracy.

          "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

          by Lily O Lady on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:23:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  There is a way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dumbo

        Changing the Digital TV standard and shutting down AM radio broadcasting swiftly could destabilize the Corporate Republican machine.

        The current Digital TV standard was concocted by Cable/Satellite interests to create more cable subscribers since one slight imperfection would cause the signal to collapse and create the "digital cliff" effect.  Mobile Phone companies saw the subchannel aspect as an opportunity to privatize the commons to feed growing mobile broadband demand. The FCC saw this as making money from the mobile phone companies.  The Japanese and European TV standards are superior and does not waffle easily, unlike the American standard.

        Americans are unlikely to buy new TV sets again or converter boxes if it is changed to the Japanese or European systems without time for an awareness campaign like 3 years ago.  Internet TV (IPTV) through boxes such as Roku and Apple TV could take off!

        Shutting down AM radio service on a certain date in the short term is a good idea since it could be justified as "outdated technology".  FM would remain untouched as it is now by this strategy.  There is NPR for news and Pacifica stations and affiliates around the country too.

        The good news:  None of these requires legislation; though the FCC will have to approve these instead!

        Metricating removes gas-guzzlers from the road. Good for the economy and the environment! U.S. Metric Association www.metric.org

        by movingforward on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:28:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They'd just move into FM. And we've (0+ / 0-)

          had an opportunity to adopt European or Japanese TV for years and chose not to. I doubt they power that be would allow it now. And we own a TV that can receive European TV signal as well as the old American analogue signals.

          The FCC works for the 1%. I wish we could shut down talk radio, but the powers-that-be like the job the shock jocks are doing for them. One slightly bright note-Neil Bortz is retiring.

          "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

          by Lily O Lady on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:41:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Except money can't buy people out of EVERYTHING... (0+ / 0-)

      ...But people with money often get over-confident, thinking it will.

      You know, if a couple of super-wealthy jerks influencing elections are really the problem, why don't we set up groups to track their activities and figure out what they're doing that's illegal, and then make sure they get investigated for it?  Political defeats like this don't happen in a vacuum, most voters are decent and hard-working and not completely stupid.  The world is a lousy place today specifically because a tiny few individuals with wealth and power and resources are making it that way for everyone else.  I think a different strategy is in order.  We've tried the standard "reaching out to the populace" thing, with the petitions and the voter registration and the leg work.  It didn't work that well.  I think our efforts should refocus on identifying specific "world-ruiners" and putting them under a microscope.  If enough people are watching, they're going to be caught doing something illegal sooner or later.  Nobody lives a perfect life.  And if they had to play defense on legal and/or PR fronts, maybe there would be less time for them to be running around creating misery for millions of people.

  •  Thing is... (61+ / 0-)

    ...I'm at a loss to figure out where we can go from here. The anti-Walker side got outspent 20-to-1. The Democrats will be lucky to get outspent by 3-to-1 between now and November, and that buys a lot of GOTV. How, exactly, do we expect to overcome this, without the Democrats finding some way to themselves appease the billionaires?

    Unless Citizens United is overturned, we're done as a democracy, and we're done as a first world nation; anyone with any brains and resources will be leaving for Canada, Europe, China and India, where the opportunities are.

    •  I don't think Citizens United will ever (49+ / 0-)

      be overturned.  For one thing, it's a Supreme Court decision, so the court itself won't overturn it.  Even if we appointed more Democrats, it still stands as a decision.  

      It sucks, but we have to learn to live with it.  One way we can try to survive is investing in ground organization, something that requires live bodies on the ground, not dollars.  

      BUT... The DNCs failure to invest in Wisconsin was a setback towards that.  The spin the Democratic strategists are putting on this tonight that this doesn't matter in their big picture of things is WRONG.  It does matter.  It was a strategic loss.

      •  Agreed (22+ / 0-)

        If Washington had engaged in a 50-state strategy after 2008, 2010 wouldn't have been such a disaster.

        Unfortunately even that would have been just a holding action at this point. Unless the Democrats find a way to get the same kind of huge corporate donors as the Republicans, they'll be able to buy three pairs of boots on the ground for every one we field.

        That's the facts of the matter. Citizens United creates a new political dynamic in the United States, and it's a very bleak one.

        •  And when you get huge corporate donors, you (14+ / 0-)

          get huge obligations to the corporations that have to be paid back.

        •  Way wrong. The Dems have been sucking on that (6+ / 0-)

          Corporate $ thing for a good 30 years. And here we are.

          As long as the Democratic Party has even the hint of a scent of a vestige about it of actually representing the people's interest, corporate money will always flow toward the Republicans first. And then the worst Democrats if need be.

          And so, because the Party is primping itself to draw upon itself the hot breath of Big Money, we keep sliding further and further and further away from really representing the people's plainly stated wishes.

          Stand FOR something good for people, stand AGAINST something bad for people; mean it before and after campaign season; and you win votes. See, for example, 2008, when everyone understood "Change" to mean "not this crap we've been doing."

          Dem Leadership: come out for ending once and for all the offshoring of jobs; the hiring of skilled foreign workers to replace better paid domestic workers; ending Casino banking with massive taxes on each transaction; forcing the Too Big Too Fails to invest in the Real Economy; end the Corporate Free Ride and Giveaways...

          The Party suffers from going after the Corporate Money. Horribly so. Easy victories are turned into close struggles and losses because Leadership is all about keeping the status quo, and the money flow, going along smoothly.

          Ditch that crap, proven loser. Go for getting the public behind you because you stand up for them. Proven winner.


          The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

          by Jim P on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:35:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Jim P - how do you end offshoring of jobs? (0+ / 0-)

            In an era where companies of any size have worldwide operations, employees, sales, profits, and shareholders how do you end offshoring of jobs? I can see where you could not allow the expenses to be deductible for US income tax purposes of shipping manufacturing equipment to a different country, but beyond that what could a government actually do?

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 03:08:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  2010 wasn't lost because of a tactic. (0+ / 0-)
        •  We lost in 2010 because of Obama's compromises... (0+ / 0-)

          SO many people were excited about 2008.  Voting was high as Americans really wanted change.  When Obama was sworn in, many people were ready to roll up their sleeves and be part of that change.  

          And, then it all fizzled...  No big speeches.  No effort to control the narrative towards issues of change.  No work on the groud to get support for issues important to Americans (sending bankers to jail, help with foreclosures, changing tax rates on 1%, etc.).  The health care bill became watered down with no real push for the public option...  And, I could go on...

          In other words, in 2008 a lot of people believed change was possible - and then it became about more of the same Washington compromises and back door deals with lobbyists.  So, by 2010 people were discouraged.

          We cannot solve the problems that we have created with the same thinking that created them." - Albert Einstein

          by CarolinW on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:07:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  CalolinW - that was part of it (0+ / 0-)

            but there was another part, primarily with Independents and some moderate Republican voters, who thought that the GOP had been a poor steward of the federal government's finances and were willing to give the Dems a chance with the House, Senate and the White House to see if we could do better. Those Independents believed Senator Obama when he said he would cut the deficit in half his first four years in office. By the end of 2010 it became clear that the deficits were not going to drop below $1 Trillion per year for his entire first term. That caused a lot of Independents to switch to the GOP in the mid terms and they may not come back in 2012.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 04:01:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  "It was a (massive, fatal,) strategic loss." (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        monroematt, janemas

        fixed

        "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

        by Bluefin on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:06:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I am in complete agreement with you... (26+ / 0-)

        ...And something else. I am sick and tired of everybody focusing almost solely on "oh, this won't affect Obama" or "OMG, this will hurt Obama."

        What about the OTHER contests, dozens of swing-state contests, hundreds (at least) of state legislative contests, and contests even down-ticket from those?

        Keeping the White House matters. But as maxomai and so many others have said, we need a 50-state strategy, a 250,000-precinct strategy. That's not new. It's what many of us have said at Daily Kos for a decade. It's what Howard Dean said and tried to carry out. It's a long-term strategy that should not be abandoned because it fails once or twice or ten times.

        Republicans don't give up in defeat. They regroup, reengineer, try something fresh. And it works time after time. As you wrote in this bullseye diary, Dumbo, we need to learn from Republicans, from the right-wing in general.

        Money, as we all know, is the "mother's milk of politics," and the Republicans have a lot of camels providing gobs of milk now. But this is not insurmountable. We just need ways around it. We need to innovate. To look at what used to work. Cull from the old what can be made new. Invent totally new approaches.

        Most of all we need to stop the widespread view that elections can achieve our goals alone or that can do so protests all by themselves. These two approaches are inextricably bound up with each other, inseparable. We need to do a better job of making them work together.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:16:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The spin I'm hearing (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sephius1, RockyMtnLib, mightymouse, Matt Z

        from the random fart generators on the tube is that Obama should learn from this that the voters "really want budget cuts" and austerity...

        If only donkeys could have elephant balls... Occupy!

        by chuckvw on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:32:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think the Montana suit has a good chance of (6+ / 0-)

        prevailing and calling out the justices on their BS.  All that has to happen is for Montana to REFUSE to allow money in their politics and the DOJ to stand by and do nothing about it.  The Supreme Court has absolutely NO enforcement arm except the DOJ.   The republicans did it during their tenure and they have all done it with regard to Roe v Wade.  States are passing unconstitutional laws and yet no one does a thing about it.  The problem in this country is not the Supreme Court, it is the DOJ.

      •  There were many decisions the supreme court (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        yella dawg, RockyMtnLib, IreGyre

        ruled on that were racist, bias, against civil rights.  In time it was overturned.  Corporations United is no different.

        •  Ill be dead in sixty years (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mightymouse, adrianrf

          That's roughly how long it took to overrule Plessy v. Ferguson.  My kids will be in the 70's (if they're alive).  If Romney wins there will be an economic collapse.  Hell, even if Obama wins the chances of an economic collapse will be delayed a few years at best.  The last time we had a Great Depression, a Fascist Party rose to power that started a a World War.  Guess which country is the best candidate for that scenario to play out in a Citizen's United World?

          "If you tell the truth, you'll eventually be found out." Mark Twain

          by Steven D on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 04:20:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  DNC gave 1.4m, DGA 3m, OFA ran 60 Barrett offices (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lestatdelc

        n/t

      •  Dumbo - really good diary (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dumbo

        Very thoughtful and well researched and written. Thank you.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:58:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  We have to find a way (17+ / 0-)

      to make the money matter less in elections.

      Social media, citizen media, person to person, etc.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:32:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Spot on. n/t (5+ / 0-)

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:17:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Occupy local TV stations in the 200 largest media (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joanneleon, janemas, Joe Willy, semiot

        markets.  I mean, levitate the damn things.  Four networks in each market, 800 total buildings.  Even 50 people at each site will guarantee coverage.

        The point of the protest -- insisting that they air one free advocacy ad for every paid political one they air.  The moneybags will suffer message saturation while progressive-mindedness finally gets to smash through the political Payola barrier.  A disincentive will be built in to pay for too many ads because they are effectively offering free time to the opposition.  All paid ads earn a reply from opposing parties.

        The plan has some kinks, but it could be the basis for devaluing post-Citizens money.

        "And now we know that government by organized money is just as dangerous as government by organized mob." -- FDR

        by Mogolori on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:22:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well we have to get out on the streets (4+ / 0-)

          That's for sure.  And we are.  Whether we can have significant influence on the local TV stations, I'm not sure, but it is worth trying.  I like the idea of focused protests like the things you are suggesting.

          We have a generation coming up who don't watch TV or listen to radio though.  I suppose the advertisements will permeate everything they do online soon too.  But the local TV stations will get some of the demographics but not necessarily the young ones, if my kids are indicative.  They watch tv on hulu or netflix and don't much care about watching the latest episode of things most of the time. There are exceptions, like Game of Thrones, but that's HBO and they don't tend to watch that on the TV either. They watch it on their computers with HBO to Go.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:31:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The direct assault on media concentration (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        yella dawg, Joe Willy, Steven D, semiot

        is, has been for over a decade, the very very first step we have to take.

        That the blogosphere ignores the primacy of pulling the linchpin of the system-as-is in terms of strategy and tactics... I still shake my head every day over that. Ain't no Gates being crashed by the internet, even after 17 years of hype that because it's "new and improved" it will change everything.

        Nope. Hasn't and won't.

        My sig for a few years was along the lines "until we break the de facto monopoly on mass-reach media content, we keep losing, don't matter what we do."

        It's true. That it's not bleeding obvious to practically everyone, even at this late date, astonishes me.


        The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

        by Jim P on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:41:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The fact that there (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          semiot, Phoebe Loosinhouse

          ain't no gates being crashed here at this progressive site and many others doesn't mean that gates are not being crashed as a result of the internet.

          You are not taking into account other aspects of internet organizing.

          I'm not saying that the media problem isn't way up at the top of the list.  It is.  

          But you are discounting the power of social media, without which the protest movements around the world would not have been nearly as effective and they are still in their infant stages at this point.  Without the internet and the blogs, millions of people would not have gotten alternative explanations for the things going on, etc.  Without the internet, we would not have something like YouTube.  I mean, there are at least a dozen other important things I am leaving out here too.  

          One of the many things is the use of cell phones and internet connectivity.  The media attempts to do news blackouts on protests, for example, and to play down the numbers of people at protests, to skew the stories and misrepresent the interactions between police and protesters, for example. But then messages on Twitter get out there, first person accounts are written on blogs, and even more important, photos and videos are uploaded quickly and even in real time via livestreams, and people can see for themselves what happened.  A court case in NYC was won recently because of video taken by livestreamer Tim Pool. The video clearly showed that the police were lying about what happened.  This is really powerful stuff.  

          The mindset at Occupy is to try to get media attention but they are not counting on that.  Instead they intend to be the media.  

          I see the traditional media having less and less influence going forward. I think fewer and fewer people are reading newspapers and watching tv.  That doesn't mean that the issues with concentrated media corporations does not have to be addressed, but it does mean that trying to fix that particular situation is not the only way to address it.  Providing alternatives in whatever ways we can is also part of the answer.

          I like the Occupy attitude -- we are the media.  If the corporate media continues along the path they are traveling now, they will become more and more irrelevant because they suck,  and the fact that they suck mean that people will find other ways to get their information.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 05:16:19 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm taking into account that we (0+ / 0-)

            keep losing. Year after year, we're worse off than the previous year.

            War, Rights, Economic Security... chart them and they are all line pointing downward since the internet was first touted.

            I see the traditional media having less and less influence going forward. I think fewer and fewer people are reading newspapers and watching tv.  That doesn't mean that the issues with concentrated media corporations does not have to be addressed, but it does mean that trying to fix that particular situation is not the only way to address it.  Providing alternatives in whatever ways we can is also part of the answer.
            Here's the difference: within 2 days every single American can be given the identical impression. This is whether they have a tv/radio or not. Look at what people write about on the internet and it's 99% about whatever it is that mass-reach Media features.

            The mass-reach vs. internet comparison is not one of apples and oranges, but of a bunker buster to a match. Strategically and tactically mass-reach Media simply blows the internet out of the water.

            It's a delusion that because the media sucks people will look for other ways to get their information. What? They'll go on the web? Like I say, look at what stories people on the web talk about. They come from Media Central in the end.

            Go back in your memory and see how... and pick a story, any story, the difference is when it gets a mass-reach treatment and a pure internet treatment. The Kerry Swiftboaters, and the proof they were lying? Swiftboaters win, and because they were on mass-reach, didn't even need the internet.

            Plus, if there were a truly effective website for opposing the Elites, as in China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt during last year's rebellion, to some measure Britain today, Japan with Fukushima reporting sites, etc etc... it's nothing to close down sites.

            No, we either get the means to reach 300 million people within 48 hours, or we lose. It's nice to have positive spirits and all that... but the decisions keep going against us, we keep losing ground. Because Media Central can switch enough public opinion around in a day to be determinative in political outcomes.


            The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

            by Jim P on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:19:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You want to beat the corporate media? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lostinamerica

          Stop watching it.  The only way we'll get a change on that is if so many people stop watching them that the whole bottom drops out of their business.  

          Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

          by Big River Bandido on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:25:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Get the 200+ million who watch everyday (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Big River Bandido

            to do it, and you've got something.

            I haven't watched/listened to corporate media since 2 days before the Iraqi War Crime started. Yet I'm fully informed about the "issues" of the day. How can that be? Because the Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media Dog.

            I'll bet, even if you don't have tv/radio, 90% of what you've read today are stories that started with media central.

            Don't deal with that reality, we keep losing, as we have been for the near 2-decades of the "internet changing everything."


            The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

            by Jim P on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:23:56 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  A boycott happens one person at a time (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Jim P

              And as long as 2/3 of the nation continues to watch television daily, we might as well dispense with the notion that this country will ever be able to govern itself again.

              Yes, you and I still get much of our news coverage from the same corporate media that produces all that "programming".  But for most users the internet is a more active experience than television watching, and especially if one is reading news sites, the process is completely different because critical thinking can become engaged.  

              Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

              by Big River Bandido on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:18:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You've cited the key to my argument, though. (0+ / 0-)
                But for most users the internet is a more active experience than television watching
                Precisely. Only about (informal estimate) 1 in 10, 1 in 6 at the most are active types who look for information.

                With mass-reach, every single person in the nation gets an identical perception practically immediately (and I'm not shouting here, just emphasizing) WHETHER THEY WANT THAT IMPRESSION OR NOT.

                Do you see how that turns the mass-reach instrument into something that goes way beyond the internet in terms of it's function?

                Me, I'm a person who searches out every opinion on the internet from extreme right looney to extreme left, and all between and outside that range.

                I'm pretty rare in that regard. Almost everyone else on the net looks for a particular kind of information from a particular kind of source. The internet atomizes the populace.

                The TV, and again 5 of 6, 9 of 10 are passive about getting information by their nature, offers everyone the same thing instantly.

                Take an extreme example: It's one week before the election. All the mass-reach outlets go on 24/7 with "Obama charged with selling state secrets to Putin."

                Well, like with the Dean Scream, the Swiftboaters, and so on, the topic will be "Obama = Traitor." 300 million people will hear that claimed. Meanwhile, on the Internet, 1,000 bloggers will publish the proof that Obama couldn't possibly have met Putin on the dark side of the Moon to give him info. And, after a week, at the most a few millions will see the proof.

                What happens in the election?

                We can't ignore mass-reach Media, because the almost-total majority of people use it for hours every day and, short of losing electricity, they ain't gonna stop. It isn't going to be replaced by the internet. If it was, it would have been. Okay, maybe by 2040 it will, so how's that help today?

                Seriously, it's ending the monopoly on what almost every American hears which MUST be done. If we don't do it, we keep losing.


                The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

                by Jim P on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:34:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  thought about this the other day (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dumbo, RockyMtnLib

      Just think if you wanted to try and pass a Constitutional amendment overturning Citizens United.

      First, amendments are almost impossible to pass. It's not coming out of Congress. No way you'd meet those vote thresholds. Maybe 2/3 of the states could start the ball rolling. Still, even if you get to that point, you're looking at years, if not decades and, in the case of the last amendment ratified, centuries (I think 203 years for that one).

      Second, the pro-CU folks would spend billions upon billions to stop it.

      CU is basically insulated against the very democratic processes available to roll it back.

      You'd almost need the Supreme Court to issue a new ruling. Of course, that's not happening any time soon.

      Now, what if Romney pulls this off in the fall? They don't need to do it in every state; they just need to do it in a couple of states, enough to win. Unfortunately, they have access to enough cash to run it basically anywhere they choose. It's the basic template for how Romney won the nomination. You end up with probably one more conservative on the court in a hypothetical Romney first term.

      Any way I look at it, I don't see the situation being corrected without a decades long fight, if not longer.

    •  Believe me (0+ / 0-)

      I am strongly considering doing just that.

      Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

      by Mindful Nature on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:27:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, it is about control (29+ / 0-)

    I wonder how the DNC will feel about their grip on control after November if we lose the WH? What rationalization will they tell themselves. God, this is so depressing.

    "Such is the irresistible nature of truth that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine

    by blueoregon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:11:49 PM PDT

  •  Dems were outspent by about 30 mln or (8+ / 0-)

    more in WI. Half a mil from DNC wouldn't have made a difference.

  •  But of course... (5+ / 0-)

    ...what Saunders was suggesting was not exactly like letting Sherman raze everything in his path.  You're using an analogy that is more extreme than the reality.  Sometimes there would be room for a little jujitsu in politics where it would not be acceptable in a life or death situation like war.

    Wasserman Shultz was hedging her bets which was probably smart, given that Walker was likely to win given the polling.  It is certainly smarter than putting all eggs in that one basket.

    There is a much more impactful election coming up.  All this election means is that Walker gets to serve out a term for which he was already elected.

    •  Short sighted (24+ / 0-)
      All this election means is that Walker gets to serve out a term for which he was already elected.
      I see a lot more implications and not just in Wisconsin.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:27:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What good does it do to see big implications? (8+ / 0-)

        Those who see big national implications will be the pundits who need something to say to fill time, but it really needn't be a big deal nationally unless Dems make it a self-fulfilling prophecy by dwelling on the loss.  If this somehow destroys Democratic morale, then yes, there are big national implications, but that is within the control of Democrats.

        •  Well in my case (12+ / 0-)

          I am seeing the smaller, more local implications.  

          Do you think this will have an impact on Chris Christie and the things he does in my state?

          I do.

          Yes, there are national implications too, but I am thinking local, skymutt.

          People in this state are furious with the Dems here who have sold us out so many times, particularly in my region of the state.  And this will make a bad governor a magnitude worse for us. He will be even more emboldened.  

          Talk to people, skymutt.  Regular people who aren't all wrapped up in politics.  Ask them how they feel about the Democratic party.  Ask the kids.  Ask the people who have been registered Democrats for 30, 40, 50 years.  Ask the Independents too.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:49:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Emboldening the enemy (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VTelder, yella dawg

            When we criticized the Iraq war, we supposedly emboldened the enemy, according to the Republicans.  But it was bullshit-- the insurgents were going to do what they were going to do, no matter what the war critics said.  Likewise, Chris Christie was going to do what he is going to do regardless of whether Scott Walker won or lost.  This changes nothing for him.  Nor does it change anything for Kasich here in Ohio... he is still a one-term governor who will be bounced unceremoniously from office whether he foolishly runs for reelection or saves a shred of dignity by not doing so.

        •  Democrats Who Don't Represent (18+ / 0-)

          the working classes and who are actively hostile to unions will not excite the those for whom they hold contempt.

          Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

          by tikkun on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:54:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The same good it does to notice people with guns (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Oh Mary Oh, Steven D, semiot, cslewis

          running in your direction.

          The Leadership has to take actions with which to create a naturally-arising morale. Else, why pretend to be leaders, that's what leaders do, that's why they are called leaders, because they lead.

          The Leaders saying "ah, you little people are too stupid to dig the big picture like we do" well... in which real world is it that the people who've been treated like they are little and stupid keep their morale up by saying "We don't matter! We don't matter!"

          Take the example of Lamont vs Lieberscum in CT. Lamont was the first "official" person to say "Hey, this Iraq war is not worth it." Every Smart Big Person in the party leadership at that time would not even hint that the war was a mistake. Lamont started pulling ahead in the primaries. Then, then, then, the Democratic Center started talking about the war being the wrong thing. And it won elections.

          There was one election it didn't win. That was in Connecticut where the Dems leaders decided not to campaign for Lamont -- as liberal as Lieberman on every issue PLUS more -- and not only let Lieberscum win after betraying the party, but gave him a nice position as his reward.

          So all the Party insiders and experts their head stuffed with "conventional wisdom" and "golly we are so sophisticated," just like all the other experts we have in war-making and economics, are pretty much divorced from reality. In fact, pretty damned hostile to it.

          That's not good.


          The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

          by Jim P on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:54:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  largely agree here (8+ / 0-)

      parts of the analysis in the diary are compelling, but some of it is a bit overwrought. partly, I think that there are a number of people who just don't like recall elections, period. I am generally one of those, I wouldn't want a comparable Dem recalled, so I don't necessarily get excised about an election like this as much as a 'real' election.

      and in this case I think Saunders has turned out to have been quite right in terms of how this has played out. this wasn't a state Constitutional amendment being passed by Walker & co., it was just a law which could easily have been over-turned by a subsequent election which favored the Dems, and it would have served as a key rallying point the whole time between being introduced and the next election.

      what do we have now? collective bargaining gone, Dems at state-level in a weak position heading into the next election, and evidence that the post Citizens United decision, the $$ game will heavily favor the Repubs who pledge to lower taxes and regulations for those who have the $$ to donate.

      I don't think the party could have just pulled this out by spending a lot and sending Obama to stump. I think they looked at the #s long ago and said it was un-winnable and they were right about that. not that I respect that POV very much either, if you're on a side you help your side, you don't take a poll about whether helping a losing fight is going to cause other people to make fun or you later on or whatever. yeah, the party's in a bad state. but this fight while quite epic, wasn't fought in a smart manner. it was fought almost totally on emotion.

      Think of me what you will, I've got a little space to fill. - Tom Petty

      by itsbenj on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:31:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Republicans DID put all their eggs (36+ / 0-)

      in the Scott Walker basket.  That's just an elementary part of winning in any sport.  That's where we have to give them credit.  They didn't play it safe.  They didn't play to see what they could get without losing face.  They played to win.

      As for my analogy...  Although I'm sure Sherman killed people during his march to the sea, the point of his march was really to DESTROY LONG TERM NON-HUMAN ASSETS that allowed the South to continue fighting.  That meant destroying their economy, their food production, and their transportation.  

      When the Republicans go after the unions as they have done in such a brilliant coordinated way in the past year, they are pursuing a similar strategy of destroying one of the biggest long-term assets of the Democratic Party:  The Unions.  It would be the same in strategic effect as if we Democrats tried to abolish fundamentalist churches.

      •  You hold a common misconception. (5+ / 0-)

        There is nothing that brilliant about the Republicans' strategy against public employee unions.  Public employee unions are not that popular, for reasons that extend well beyond any recent Republican demonization strategy.  Republicans exploit reality much more than create it.

        •  I actually think that is true. People resent that (6+ / 0-)

          public employee's are  getting a much better deal than private employee's.  They have pensions and no one else does, they have better, health and vacation plans.  People in their misery want everyone to be equally miserable.  Sad but true.

          •  It's so sad that people view this as zero sum (10+ / 0-)

            You're not earning less because someone in an union is earning more.  The middle class has been pummeled for thirty years, and now we're like dogs snapping at crumbs falling from the tables of the truly powerful.

            It's only a zero sum game if you stay on the floor.

            Universal Health Care - it's coming, but not soon enough!

            by DrFood on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:13:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It is a zero sum game for the poor and middle (0+ / 0-)

              class.  You know how corporations dole out raises, they take a very small pot of money and divide it up between a large group of people, it ends up being about 3% even in the best years.  It does not even cover inflation.  People see their taxes going up and up when their pay doesn't and they look for someone to blame.  The Republicans tell them it's the unions.  The truth is that it is and it isn't.  Unions salaries have outpaced private salaries when you add in all the benefits but the bigger truth is that they have screwed by their employers and their is nothing they can do about it because they have no rights and no options.  Welcome to the world of right to work.

        •  I would prefer the word "logical" (14+ / 0-)

          to the word brilliant.  It's LOGICAL to go after the unions.  Even if the unions WERE more popular, it would be LOGICAL simply on the basis of undercutting Democratic fundraising and GOTV.

          I probably should have been more clear with my Sherman's March analogy.  Sherman's March wasn't about killing people or antagonizing people by burning down their fields.  It was about destroying southern assets that supported the southern economy and thus kept the South fighting.  Burn the crops, destroy the trains, and you make it harder for the Confederate army to continue the battle.  

          If you've ever worked for a Democratic campaign, you might have had an experience like mine, where all the serious professional work of the party is handled by teams from the unions that are ready to step in and help pro-union candidates.  I helped a congressional candidate one year, and was somewhat intimidated to see, in one of the debates, the scores of professional looking people that showed up, distributing materials before we did, having cameras set up before we did, their own cameras, camera men, just the level of seriousness and "We've done this before and know how to do it right," feeling they brought to the whole thing.  We stood out in the hall passing out pamphlets while inside the hall, they had already laid their pamphlets on every single seat.

          That's the kind of thing they are attacking when they go after the unions.  It's not about union benefits.  It's about the single biggest ground-game support base of the Democratic Party.

          In a post above, I made it analogous to as if we set out to abolish fundamentalist churches.  Can't be done, first amendment, all that, I know.  But if could do it and didn't feel dirty doing it, it would have a similar destructive effect on the organization of the Republican Party.  

          So it's LOGICAL for them to go after the unions.  The problem is that they may get away with it.  It would be equally LOGICAL for us to put massive efforts into preventing this.  Whether or not unions are popular.

          •  In that light, the analogy makes more sense to me. (0+ / 0-)

            But understand the implications.  You are saying that the Democratic Party should fight to protect an asset-- the public employee unions-- because the asset serves the Democratic Party.  That essentially admitting one prong of the Republican complaint against public employee unions, that they are a political arm of the Democratic Party.

            •  The unions are what the unions are. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              semiot

              There has long been a symbiotic relationship between the Democratic Party and the unions.

              If they object to that, then I can understand why.  Personally, I am offended by the fact that whole church congregations can be told by their pastor from the pulpit that they are going to go to hell if they don't vote for a certain Republican.  Happens all the time.  But it doesn't matter how I feel about that, because it's hard to do anything about it.  

              HOWEVER... If we ever tried to disenfranchise fundamentalist religious institutions in this country, the Republicans would fight back hard, not because they are so unerringly Christian, but because they have the commonsense to realize HOW DEPENDENT THEY ARE on the churches for their grass roots, fundraising, organization, and GOTV.

              Likewise, we have to recognize how dependent WE are.

              •  Difference being... (0+ / 0-)

                ...that churchgoers are not on the government payroll.  It would not only be hard to "go after" fundamentalist churches, it would be contrary to our laws and traditions for a Democratic executive to do so, whereas public employee unions are legitimately within Scott Walker's domain.

                •  I disagree with that. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  semiot

                  Public employees should have the right to organize.  A union so organized, like all unions, should have the right to be politically active.  Both parties are free to woo the unions.  If one tries, and the other doesn't, c'est la vie.  

                  As for the freedom of churches... They also get a tax break for being a church.  Jimmy Breslin once wrote a famous satirical column in which he praised the Cardinal of New York for being so brave and outspoken in giving up the tax benefits of the church.  Really, he had not;  he had only spoken out in endorsement of a candidate.  But Breslin disingenuously carried on as if it was brave of the Cardinal to do so since it meant the Roman Catholic Church could no longer claim tax exempt status.

    •  This Election Indicates That (14+ / 0-)

      the working classes will not be represented by Democrats in power.  

      Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

      by tikkun on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:53:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is the kind of crap around here that keeps (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, ozsea1, Joe Willy

      my 'hair on fire'...to paraphrase Richard Clarke.
      Jeebus fuckin' chriiist, this is WAR, man!

      "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

      by Bluefin on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:10:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The party did invest (7+ / 0-)

      a lot of resources below the radar, but they were concerned about setting expectations.  Why?  This was a general election in JUNE, that's why.  Walker loses, it's a win; Walker wins, it preserves the status quo.  So, treating it as the Republicans' to lose make the most sense towards November.

      And hopefully this is the last of people acting like they are too good to work for Democrats, which in all fairness, goes for DWS too.  What she said made sense at the time, and was not the reason we apparently lost, but now is a different time.

      The study of law was certainly a strange discipline. -- Yukio Mishima

      by Loge on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:15:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  you have it exactly backwards (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JustinBinFL, cslewis, caul

        The Democratic Party acts as though they're too good to work for us.

        A special characteristic of the The Comfortable Class, their courtisans and their fluffers.

        "What have you done for me, lately?" ~ Lady Liberty

        by ozsea1 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:46:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's fine, as long as you leave (0+ / 0-)

          "us" undefined, and possibly run together means and ends.  In other words, what is it you're trying to accomplish?

           The party is absolutely fighting for the middle class, and that's doubly true of party activists, but understandably their focus is to win elections, and that affects the manner in which they proceed, including the need to work with other constituents from time to time, and tactical decisions about when and when not to explicitly nationalize a local race.  They won't get all of these decisions right in hindsight, but there's a higher burden to show they're unreasonable and ill-motivated.  And on that, we could do with out the sexually coded language, especially in response to a comment specifically mentioning a female congresswoman by name.  But either way, I don't see a path forward in what you're suggesting, especially in the short or medium term.

          The study of law was certainly a strange discipline. -- Yukio Mishima

          by Loge on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:14:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Respectfully disagree (0+ / 0-)
            The party is absolutely fighting for the middle class
            Kabuki.

            Both parties are beholden to their corporate sponsors. The Dems deign to throw us Uncomfortables a few bones from the table in the Big House on which to gnaw and squabble over, but it's just kabuki.

            thanks for your reply, though.

            "What have you done for me, lately?" ~ Lady Liberty

            by ozsea1 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:19:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I hate to say, it's all true. (37+ / 0-)

    Sadly, for those of us on the ground, it means living in a state that is looking at a future of being at best, Ohio-like, and at worst, Indiana-like. We are no longer going to be most similar to Minnesota, Oregon & Washington. Wages will gradually slip toward the back. Employment will increase for those willing to work for <$10/hr, but good jobs will grow in our neighbors to the south and west. Worst of all, Wisconsin's reputation as an education bright light, already dimming, will go dark.

    It's gonna suck.

    1,000,000 Strong! TOTAL RECALL!

    by pHunbalanced on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:15:13 PM PDT

    •  "ohio like"? (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dumbo, RockyMtnLib, mightymouse, semiot, caul

      the people of Ohio went to the polls a short time ago and overwhelmingly repealed a similar union busting bill passed by Ohio's Republicans and their Republican Governor John Kasich.

      I dont know why Ohio, a supposedly more conservative state voted with labor, and wisconsin ,  a once bastion of progressivism, voted against labor.

      I believe Citizens United was decided before the Ohio vote. and the unions were outspent in Ohio too.  Something bigger is present here.

      •  Maybe the Wisconsin protests got a little too (0+ / 0-)

        out of hand and faced a voter backlash.  

        I didn't remember Ohio having Capitol sit-ins.

      •  In Ohio, you could vote against the bad bill (6+ / 0-)

        I think in Wisconsin many not-all-that-well-informed but basically good people thought that it was not fair to have a re-do on the 2010 election.  They thought that recalls should be more like impeachments, and they weren't aware of all that Governor Walker has been doing and plans to do.

        I'm quite sure if we could have put the union busting bill up for a vote directly it would have been refuted.

        Universal Health Care - it's coming, but not soon enough!

        by DrFood on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:17:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ohio-like as in ... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IreGyre, mightymouse, lostinamerica

        split down the middle always fighting and swinging. Wisconsin, despite it's reputation has been, in all reality, a "blue state" for most of the last couple decades. I think it is now a swing state like Ohio. The worse scenario is that we are heading toward a midwest outlier status like Indiana. In general, both IN and OH are states that have historically been less progressive and had a lower quality of life than Wisconsin, Michigan (though MI is pretty sad now), Illinois and Minnesota.

        So, to be clear, perhaps Ohio is becoming more Wisconsin-like and WI is becoming more Ohio-like. I was not making a comment on a single moment in time, but the long term tendency.

        1,000,000 Strong! TOTAL RECALL!

        by pHunbalanced on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:59:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The DNC (37+ / 0-)

    and party leadership could have made a difference.  Maybe the difference between winning and losing.  If they really went all out, they could have thrown some money at this, early and stronger organizing at this, personalities at this who would have helped GOTV and it could have been the difference between a win and a loss.

    My God, they're going to have a billion dollars in this 2012 election. They couldn't spare some of that??  Unprecedented amounts of money being thrown around for this election and they couldn't spare any??

    They chose not to.  They didn't give a shit. All they care about is the presidential election.

    It is unforgiveable.  And it was stupid. It was a stupid move that is going to damage them in the long run.  Maybe not so long run.


    "Justice is a commodity"

    by joanneleon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:21:04 PM PDT

  •  Democratic Party, DNC, and Obama (23+ / 0-)

    all no shows for Wisconsin.

     and people still push the "he's on your side" meme...

    I didn't abandon the fight, I abandoned the Party that abandoned the fight...

    by Jazzenterprises on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:21:56 PM PDT

  •  How did such a proven corporate shill,likely felon (5+ / 0-)

    win so convincingly?

    •  He was their felon. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, sethtriggs, ozsea1

      I wish we had felons on the left like Walker, don't you?  

    •  Highlights another huge difference between (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ranton, caul

      Dems and Reps.

      If Satan himself ran as a Republican, he'd get the nomination as long as he whispered plenty of RW racist sweet nothings in the bases' ears. And I'll bet dollars to donuts that if he were mired in scandal, the Rs would still rally to his defense, and the media would be dredging up something some Democrat did in 1993 as proof that both sides are equally guilty.

      Meanwhile we have a solid progressive who gets outed for something that proves he/she doesn't show 100% moral rectitude and you'll have Nancy Pelosi along with some folks on this site demanding that person resign and fade into the woodwork for the good of the image of the party. We shoot our wounded like nobody else.  

      liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

      by RockyMtnLib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:01:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Where does this leave the workers (25+ / 0-)

    Union members like myself and civil service workers across the nation. November is coming. It is time for us to get active for the people who couldn't care less if we live or die.

    That way we can perhaps stem the tide of the people who really want to see us dead. I'm still not feeling very motivated.

    •  I worry that the anti union hating is growng as (12+ / 0-)

      Reagan planted the seed and it has grown where it is more likely you will encounter an anti union person who is not a Republican and that troubles me.

      The Walker Obama voters ..seem to me to just hate and resent unions and have bought into the Unions are Thugs and Unions hurt the economy meme and they are not all Republicans, not by a long shot.

      Follow PA Keystone Liberals on Twitter: @KeystoneLibs

      by wishingwell on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:48:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's the economy, again (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ozsea1, mightymouse, caul, msdrown

        Cracks start to appear in the working class when jobs get scarce.  Racing to the bottom isn't pretty.

        Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

        by EthrDemon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:06:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Unions have been intimidated (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        roubs, 3goldens, ozsea1, mightymouse, caul, msdrown

        until they don't really defend themselves or their members much at all.  I understand it began during the McCarthy years when they were afraid of being called communists and threw the strong agitators out.

        Now unions just tend to lecture their members on "management prerogatives," and to recommend playing dumb - but happy.

        They should have been running PUBLIC relations campaigns all along, talking about all the good things they provide to the public, enlisting the public on their sides, instead of trying to suck up to management, thinking that would buy them anything.

        •  PR campaigns cost money. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          3goldens

          I used to work at a union, as a paid officer.

          Yes we got union dues to run the union.  Which paid for salaries, wage and benefits for staff, office expenses, legal expenses, etc. Most of the dues flowed through.  There was no great pot of money at the end of the month.

          When all that was said and done, there wasn't a hella lot to toss to PR people, who are very expensive.

    •  I voted 'moderate' for decades. Time to DUMP (10+ / 0-)

      all these f'king sell outs.

      I was a goddam cook in Boston in the 80's - in '89 when I was 29 I was making about 10 bucks an hour - the most I ever made. I risked my ass cooking on Alaskan fishing boats & tugs and spent my winnings on a math degree & did the dot.bomb thing in Seattle in the late 90's, and made 51K 1 year! and then the dot.bomb blew up and blah blah blah

      there is a entire branch of the Democratic Party which has PROVEN itself good at a few things, only ---

      staying in charge,
      keeping fat pay checks,
      selling us out and calling it "compromises",
      taking care of their leafy neighborhood $ocial cla$$,

      I voted for these fuckers for decades, and

      it is time to let them get the vote % they deserve --- the 6% of upper middle class billionaire butt kissers who aren't bigots, racists or sexist pigs, BUT, who ALWAYS do what the bo$$ want$.

      the other 80%++ gotta start voting for Graysons, ONLY.

      fuck the rest of 'em.

      rmm.  

      Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

      by seabos84 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:03:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think it's simple (22+ / 0-)

    40 to 45% of people are Republicans or lean that way. 40-45% of people are Democrats or lean that way. All you have to do is bullsh*t the utterly clueless 10 to 15% who vote based on irrelevancies to vote your way, and you do that by drowning them in propaganda. You buy their votes. They're as dumb as potted plants so you just bury them in manure.

    10% of the people in this country couldn't spell "cat" if you spotted them the c and the t. But they're registered voters and they all own TV's. There's your recipe for success. Karl Rove gets it, and so does Roger Ailes.

    The Bush Family: 0 for 4 in Wisconsin

    by Korkenzieher on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:36:04 PM PDT

  •  ITS MONEY BABY, ITS MONEY (18+ / 0-)

    Americans are stupid and mindless in regards to the power of propaganda delivered to the public 24/7. For decades the Republicans have been studying the propagada techniques of Joseph Goebbels. It is easy to see the principles of Goebbels intellect demonstrated in the Republican propaganda messages. Goebbels said "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them OVER and OVER." Well it takes money, lots of it to repeat that simple message OVER and OVER in todays TV media.

    The Republicans have perfected their propaganda techniques wherein even simple bold faced lies will work if the message is fed to the public enough times. Those who long to believe that personal contact by troops on the ground will triumph over super pac money stuffed by billionaire donors have been proven to be disappointed by the final election results.

    I seriously raise the question, "In the face of proven propaganda science, can the United States still continue to defend the assertion from the disenfranchised that America is NOT both in principle and practice a democracy in the sense of the internationally accepted definition." We are now experiencing the churlish suggestion that America is the land of equal opportunity, where anyone is free to become a billionaire and then use his/her money to effectively purchase an election.

  •  It's worse than that (21+ / 0-)

    it's not just apathy at the top, it's an intentional choice to defend their prerogative of setting the party's agenda.  They aren't just turning away, they're slapping the hands of grassroots activists who get ideas above their station.  No, you can't sit at the adults' table.

    all morals are relative, but some are more relative than others.

    by happymisanthropy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:42:58 PM PDT

  •  don't get this diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    apimomfan2, wu ming

    im looking at the results page at 11:42 PM and 85% of precincts are reporting.  It's listed as 55%-45% for walker, but 15% of precincts are not done reporting, and unknown which precincts have yet to report.

    so, my question is, how did we lose Wisconsin when the battle is still going and there is definite possibility that Barrett can win?  Unless the remaining 15% or precincts each have like 1 vote, not sure how this is anything even close to a done deal.

    •  I think you need (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      monroematt

      some basic math education. First of all it's 92% reporting and 54-45% for walker. To win Barrett would need over 90% of the remaining vote. Which is an impossibility considering the vote is out in both Democratic and Republican counties and Barrett has lost the previous 90% of the vote.

      •  please read the time i listed before condescending (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sethtriggs, yella dawg

        and it was 15% of precincts left, not 15% of votes left, those are two very different ways to slice the pie.  either way, at 0021 EST, the percentage remains the same with 94% of precincts reporting, not looking good for barrett.

        btw, thanks for not acting like an asshole about it.

  •  Sorry, it's over. (9+ / 0-)

    The DNC chose their side.  Americans like winners.  Pres. Obama will lose.  The DNC should have gone all in.  Jeez, this wasn't even close!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies. ~ Groucho Marx

    by Chowzoi on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:46:45 PM PDT

    •  recall voters (9+ / 0-)

      favored obama and obama is a formidable candidate.

      do you want obama to lose? Do you think he never should have been president?

    •  The DNC couldn't have gone all in when there a ton (12+ / 0-)

      of elections to fund for November. To blame Obama and the DNC over this does not sound reasonable. I remember during the election for Ted Kennedy's seat many were saying if Obama would just go there it would help Martha Coakley, to pull this out. Obama went...Coakley lost.... The president gave his support to Barrett, OFA was involved in getting out the vote.... This has nothing to do with Obama..... As I said above.... 36% of union household went to Walker.... Call me crazy but I think that is crazy....

      •  This is the same as 2010. (9+ / 0-)

        As I said above, Obama trotted Gibbs out to tell us we were going to lose the elections in the fall.  (Pelosi was like, "Wha...?")  And we lost.

        Here they did not even fight.  Just like healthcare.  Just like 2010.

        That's because they don't want the progressives getting power.  They have a vested interest in eviscerating the left and they have done that.  It started with destroying what Howard Dean had built and if we had beaten Walker here progressives would have regained a foothold.

        This is not rocket science.  Obama, Emmanuel and the whole crew have held us in contempt since Day 1 of the Administration.

        You might be asking, "Why would they do this to their allies"?

        The answer actually has serious historical precedent in a number of contexts, but the short answer is as follows:

        So they can enact right wing policies.  

        Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

        by maxschell on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:18:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ed Schultz also said no one in Wisconsin (9+ / 0-)

        was asking for Obama to step in and you clearly show that Obama is not always a help when he steps into a state for a candidate.  I only saw it mentioned that Obama should go to Wisconsin at the very end of this recall fight between Walker and Barrett, and that was here at Daily Kos.  I don't think Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was much help, however, and I do believe early on and forward to the end she could have sent some heavy-weights (beyond Bill Clinton) to travel the state with Barrett.

        I think there are many variables for why Walker walked away with a win, but I agree with you, Ned, that when you have 36% of the union households voting for Walker, something is very crazy about the voters who are voting against their own self-interests.  I just don't get it.  It's ludicrous!

        The $$$ poured into the state for Walker sure didn't help.  It's going to happen in many states because "they" have deep pockets.  The DNC has to figure out where to spend it's money.  I expect a lot of $$$ to come into NM now that Heather Wilson (remember her?) has won the primary.  However, I would think Wisconsin would have been a very important state to support through the Recall, but I'm not looking at all the stats that the DNC is looking at, state to state.

        I'll repeat something I said in another thread:   It's being said that many dislike recalls "on principle."  My only argument about that is that ON PRINCIPLE this Jackass Gov. in Wisconsin and the CU Horse he rode in on, lacks principles, ... so which is more important: The principle of recalling an elected official and sticking with him just because he was elected (after lying about what he would do for the State of Wisconsin), or rejecting his fascist leadership that is putting Wisconsin in jeopardy?

        This loss to Walker is so disconcerting on so many levels.  

        I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

        by KayCeSF on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:21:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KayCeSF

          if your #1 "principle" is that recall elections suck, in other words, don't upset the apple cart, then you need to reevaluate your "principles".

          liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

          by RockyMtnLib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:14:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, I've had been bugged all evening (0+ / 0-)

            with the remarks about the principle of recalling an elected official.  Apparently the voters believe he's more principled than I do.  

            I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

            by KayCeSF on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:09:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Off base (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tommy Jones the Band

          Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

          While we would no doubt agree that Walker and his world-view are toxic, and maybe crossing over into illegality, the premise of your argument is simply off-base. Screaming about it doesn't alter that.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

          by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:35:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Who was screaming? I certainly wasn't. (0+ / 0-)

            And my "premise" as you put it, was only my opinion offered because had I been a voter in Wisconsin, I would have weighed one "principle" against the other and I would have voted for Barrett.

            Barrett was rejected, however, I think it was for a number of reasons.  As I sip my morning coffee, its clear one reason is that Unions seem to be confused about who really cares about them.  Well, Monsieur Lestat, labor this thought, Walker is definitely going to "divide and conquer" and apparently he's done this within the Unions.  What a clever guy Walker is, and some of the union workers bought his line.

            I'm going to have more coffee.... ::sigh::

            I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

            by KayCeSF on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:07:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  36% of union household members went to Walker, (18+ / 0-)

    this tells you all you need to know, when you begin to consider reasons Walker win.... My goodness, people voting against their own interest..... If people are unable to vote for the issues that are important to them, how can Democrats or President Obama help them? Unions spent a great deal to try and get out the vote, but they are being opposed by their own people.... To me...this is the crux of the matter....

    •  The police and firefighters unions were exempted (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sethtriggs, caul

      from the union busting rules.

      But I heard that only 36% of union households were voting this year as compared to 28% in 2010 on Rachel Maddow earlier tonight.  Figure was based on exit polls.

      "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

      by Susan Grigsby on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:00:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Boggles the mind. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      slouchsock, NedSparks, sethtriggs

      I don't get much anymore -- I'm perplexed about the political and apolitical minds of voters in this country.

      I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

      by KayCeSF on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:08:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There's a one-word description for these (0+ / 0-)

        people, generally. Actually, there are two one-word descriptions, depending on the circumstance: "stupid" and "ignorant".

        Whatever their other motives (spite, "evil", irreverence, etc.), a union person voting for Walker is either stupid or ignorant.

    •  Obama (9+ / 0-)

      Well, Obama did not even try to help them, he could not lift his finger to make one lousy photo op visit to Wisconsin.  And exit polls are showing that large amounts of people who voted for Walker feel comfortable voting for Obama.

      That to me is telling.  And not for good reasons.   A large amount of union buster supporters feel perfectly comforable voting for Barack Obama.  The same could not be ever said about FDR, Truman, JFK, Lyndon Johnson, or even Jimmy Carter.

      I hope Bill Clinton and Obama are happy together.  They both have a lot in common, such as looking out only for themselves!

    •  Uh, which election are you discussing? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      I heard on MSNBC that 36% of union members went for Walker when he was first elected, before he trotted out his anti-union agenda. They may have been duped, but I don't think they voted for him again today. Do you have figures on today's election? Please supply.

      W. H. Auden: "We must love one another or die."

      by martyc35 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:17:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Wonder how they'll feel when he's indicted (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dumbo, 3goldens, Matt Z, lostinamerica
  •  FUCK THE DNC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (6+ / 0-)

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face" & "Polka will never die." - H. Dresden.

    by bnasley on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:53:28 PM PDT

    •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tommy Jones the Band

      Fuck the DNC because they didn't raise $1.4 million for Barrett. (rolls eyes)

      ALso, fuck the DGA because they didn't chip in 3 million and fuck the OFA as well because they weren't setting 60 offices for Barrett.

      You are simply talking out your ass.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:37:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Are you sure it's really about money? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Frank Knarf

    If your manning a register, or waiting tables, or doing all kinds of things that pay around ten bucks an hour do you really have a lot of sympathy that a bunch of people that already make a shit load more money than you have to pay a little more for their pensions and healthcare? These people don't even fucking have pensions and healthcare. Then you factor in the mentality these people rightly posses that "they" are paying the ones paying for these salaries and benefits in the form of taxes. How in the hell are you going to convince those people you're right?  Flip it to people that are solidly middle class, it's the same deal. Why should public employees get a better deal than them? We already know what the wealthy think. Also, factor in that this kind of was cry babyish. They won in 2010 we lost, but we tried to change it with some lawyer tricks. I'm sure that turned some people off as well.

    I mean what are we trying to sell here. Take care of our teachers and such because they should be the real American heroes? Give me a fucking break. Sure, if you could sit these people down and show them an income distribution chart from 1900's to the present and give them a crash course in labor relations and connect all those dots and explain how the middle class was built in this country and how in the present day without unions wages would be even lower then the 10 bucks an hour they make and blah, blah, blah... Maybe you could get somewhere. Unfortunately that's not reality...

  •  Excuses, excuses nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joe wobblie
  •  Obama's no fighter. (4+ / 0-)

    I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization -- SCOTUS Justice O.W. Holmes Jr.

    by Irons33 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 08:58:54 PM PDT

    •  Funny, this was a recall election in WI (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tommy Jones the Band

      and not a referendum on Obama, and Obama injecting himself into a STATE matter election in any major way is profoundly ignorant advice.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled... but it must be all about Obama not wanting to fight.

      Pathetic.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:40:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Walker controls the debate; that's why he won (4+ / 0-)

    Both candidates speak in  the "shared sacrifice" frame.

    Even Clinton used it on Friday.

    When Walker called unions a special interest in the debates---multiple times---Barrett just sat there.

    When Walker demanded concessions---that weren't necessary to balance the fucking budget---top union leaders, without consulting with membership---said, yes, we agree to the concessions.

    When you agree with the other side, why have a fucking recall?

    "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don't cause spills. They are technologically very advanced." 4-2-10 Obama's George Bush moment

    by neaguy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:00:30 PM PDT

  •  You've nailed it Dumbo. And to keep with the (11+ / 0-)

    analogy, I'll predict the future (again). As much as I fear for all those wonderful WI fighting Dem's, especially those posting here on DK.
    The Rescumlicans are going to first shoot all the wounded, then round up and execute all the rebels, the insurgents, those who oppose them; those who signed those very public recall petitions...(not necessarily literally, but definitely figuratively).

    Many of these good people are going to face myriad forms of discrimination and retribution, some subtle, some obvious. Even job losses, and many other vicious retaliations, in addition to all the general insults and depredations that all Wisconsinites will face in the coming years.

    All because of a massive failure of leadership, from the White House (Obama) on down through the entire Democratic Party hierarchy.
    A complete, disastrous miscalculation of both tactics and strategies.

    And I've 'had my hair on fire' for way too long (years actually). Reading many comments, and even diaries, around here that seek to wave this Waterloo away, even before the battle was joined, I don't think I can take it any more.
    (My comments here on DK to that effect, the lack of Dem leadership, go back a long way; and much longer before I signed up here, and on other blogs and in emails. Yeah, you can even find my comments from a few months after Obama took office to the effect that he should take a quick Officer Candidate course, at minimum, at one of the military academies, to learn "leadership" as it is required of the position.).
    EOM

    "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

    by Bluefin on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:00:35 PM PDT

    •  What crap (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tommy Jones the Band

      This was a STATE election about a STATE issue. Obama injecting himself into the race in a major way would have been a serious disaster.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      Furthermore, the DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett, so they were being supportive.

      But you want to drink bitter grapes, so have at it. The GOP will gladly pour you another glass of it because they would rather you keep feeling and acting like this than being reality based.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:43:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  hjkl (0+ / 0-)
        This was a STATE election about a STATE issue. Obama injecting himself into the race in a major way would have been a serious disaster.
        --This was a surrogate for NATIONAL issues and elections. The opposition saw it clearly as such.
        --I did not call for Obama's direct, personal participation in this, I defer to more astute tacticians whether that would be a positive, effective tactic (I suspect it would not be).
        --What I meant was a president who exhibits great and necessary LEADERSHIP in LEADING his party, which Obama does not.

        Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.
        --Then how did Barrett get 45% of the vote? I personally think all these suddenly popular 'exit polls' showing these various statistics are BUllSHit.
        --Why? Because I am familiar with the opposition, the smarter everyday Repukes are primed (by their handlers, yes, they have even thought of this) to LIE to the enemy (us and pollsters) in order to lull them into unwariness. And it works. It's an old, old trick called 'sandbagging'.

        Furthermore, the DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett, so they were being supportive.
        --BFD. The Repukes, from early on, recognized this as a pivotal battle. They then commenced to pour resources into it, $50-60 Million in cash plus (vs. ~<$5 Million? for all the WI Dems), multiple RWNJ idol appearances, massive national co-ordination and effort, etc., etc.
        --The Dems? Mouselike squeaks (and muthafuckin' tweet, ferchrissake).

        But you want to drink bitter grapes, so have at it. The GOP will gladly pour you another glass of it because they would rather you keep feeling and acting like this than being reality based.
        --Me reality based? You and Markos and the rest who seem to think that this upcoming November election has little bearing on this disaster (based on distorted polls?) are the ones deluding yourselves. And I was "reality based" enough to contribute significantly to most of the WI Dems to try to avert this clusterfuck.
        Y'all can perfume this cow patty all you want, it still smells like BUllSHit.
        -- And you're going to love Wanker as Rmoney's VP pick (maybe, how's that for a screwball pitch?).

        "Double, double, toile and trouble; Fire burne, and Cauldron bubble... By the pricking of my Thumbes, Something wicked this way comes": Republicans Willkommen auf das Vierte Reich! Sie Angelegenheit nicht mehr.

        by Bluefin on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:42:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Loyalty runs both ways (6+ / 0-)

    Loyalty to "leadership" requires at least some concern for the followers' welfare.  People in Wisconsin are going to suffer even more now than we have over the past year.

    What exactly do we gain by supporting the DNC and Obama?  Our civil liberties are going back pre-Magna Carta, bank fraud has been rewarded rather than prosecuted, while people who expose fraud ARE prosecuted, we are at permanent secret war, we live in a surveillance state, our safety net is only still intact - for now - because the GOP wouldn't go along with Obama's "Grand Bargain," etc., etc.

    How will volunteers feel about working for Obama or anyone else now, after having been essentially spat upon, when we needed help?  

  •  I wondered how long it would take for the first (15+ / 0-)

    diary to bash Obama and the DNC on the WI results. Give me a fucking break. OFA was out there helping out with GOTV operations. The DNC gave money.  Having Obama show up in WI or the DNC give more money might have moved the needle 1-2% but no where near enough to give Barrett the win.

    We lost Wisconsin because not enough people supported recalling Walker period.

    Most important result from the exit poll: the 60% who said recalls are ONLY appropriate for OFFICIAL misconduct.
    This is a huge blow to organized labor though. This is the 2nd race that they've put all of their chips on and gotten blown out in the final results.  While their primary of Lincoln was moronic, I thought they had a better chance with Walker. I really thought we'd win this one.

    President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

    by askew on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:02:20 PM PDT

    •  Embarrassingly predictable response by now (7+ / 0-)

      But somebody's got to get blamed of course. Obama came to Wisconsin when it really mattered: before the 2010 election.
      They didn't listen.

      •  Was that before or after Gibbs told us we lost? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sunspots, BradyB, 3goldens, lostinamerica

        Cuz I remember Gibbs saying we were going to lose in the summer of 2010.

        Send your old shoes to the new George W. Bush library.

        by maxschell on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:21:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  an amusing bit of historical revisionism (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, mightymouse, lostinamerica, pot

        Obama declined to campaign seriously in 2010, in Wisconsin or anywhere else, with predictable results.

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:44:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Baloney (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vespers, askew, Lestatdelc

          He campaigned all over for Governors and Senators in 2010 including when he was having a bad cold. Maybe he should have done more, but it's kinda hard when he has to be President.

        •  Bullshit. He did multiple campaign stops in (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z, Lestatdelc

          WI and many all over the country as did his wife. How pathetic that you have to resort to lying to smear Obama.

          President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

          by askew on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:59:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Feel free to provide me with that itinerary. (0+ / 0-)

            Basically, Obama didn't do dick. The base turned out -- they always do, that's what makes them the base -- but the occasional voters who made the difference for Obama in 2008 did not, because he never gave them any reason to.The Republicans ran in 2010 by attacking the Obama administration, and the Obama administration utterly failed to step up and lead a counterattack. That is the full, entire, complete story of the 2010 election: The Republicans ran a national campaign with a national agenda, while every Democrat was left to independently cobble together some kind of positive message. The result: Epic Fail.

            So to expand: feel free to provide me with examples of speeches from the latter half of 2010 in which Obama directly called out the Republicans for their obstructionist malfeasance, and stated the simple, obvious truth: That if people wanted him to be able to enact his program, they needed to elect Democrats instead of Republicans. Show me the speeches where he went into downtown Milwaukee and told African American voters that everything they had accomplished in 2008 was at risk if they didn't get the hell up and down to the polls in 2010. Show me the speeches where he itemized the bills that Pelosi's House passed, only to have them die for lack of 60 votes in the Senate, and tells Wisconsin voters: If you want me to succeed, you must get out and vote for Feingold.

            Go ahead. Show me.

            The 2010 debacle was a result of the same half-assed approach to party politics that caused the 1994 debacle: A White House that thought of itself as a distinct political entity, rather than an organ of a party with a coherent agenda operating on both local and national levels, with many interconnections of process, power, and responsibilty.

            To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

            by UntimelyRippd on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:47:10 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  First, I did not bash Obama. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      2laneIA, BradyB, cslewis, pot

      If you see an indirect bash to Obama when I chastise the Democratic Party establishment, including the DNC and its chair, well, I can't avoid that.  But I actually deliberately AVOIDED doing that, just so I could avoid a pie fight.  

      I don't blame Wisconsin on Obama in this diary.  I blame it on a wider spread culture of failure and strategic blindness within the Democratic Party establishment.

      •  Man up. You were bashing. (0+ / 0-)

        The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

        Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

        Stop blaming Obama and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

        by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:47:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Time for a new DNC chair. (9+ / 0-)

    Someone with fire in their belly.  DWS just isn't cutting it.  

    "The shame would be if Democrats get thrown out of office without ever having tried Democratic policies." -Bill Maher

    by DirkFunk on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:02:52 PM PDT

  •  All I can say is ... (0+ / 0-)

    Yup.

  •  Thanks Barrack! (5+ / 0-)

    For wearing those shoes and walking that picket line!
    We will never forget all that you sacrificed for us...

    •  What did you do before Obama was elected? Who did (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jan4insight, sviscusi, vespers, Matt Z

      you blame then?

    •  you forgot the /snark n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "Everybody wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die" --- Albert King

      by HarpboyAK on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:28:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You're entitled to your opinion, of course, (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NedSparks, sethtriggs, Matt Z, Lestatdelc

      but you could at least spell his name correctly. It's

      President Barack Obama

      to you.

    •  Thanks splash oil (0+ / 0-)

      The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      Stop blaming Obama and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:49:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Facts are... (0+ / 0-)

        In flames

        What happened?

        I wish I could say I had a new insight, but it’s basically the same problem I’ve been writing about for years.  Put simply, it’s that Obama’s policy framework is now the policy framework of the Democratic Party, liberals, and unionism.  Up and down the ticket, Democrats are operating under the shadow of the President, associated with unpopular policies that make the lives of voters worse and show government to be an incompetent, corrupt handmaiden to big business.  So they keep losing.

        It should be obvious that if you foreclose on your voters, cut their pay, and legalize theft of their wealth by Wall Street oligarchs, they won’t be your voters anymore.  Somehow, Democratic activists continue to operate as if policy doesn’t matter to voters, or that policy evaluation is a Chinese menu of different stuff, some of which you like and some of which you don’t, as in “Oh I’ll take a pro-choice moderate, with a bailout, and gay rights.  And a Pepsi”.  But that’s not how it works – voters’ lives get better, or they don’t.  And under Obama, stuff has gotten worse.  Obama’s economic policies have made economic inequality sharper  than it was under Bush, due to his bailout of banks and concurrent elimination of the main source of wealth of most Americans, home equity.  With these policy choices, Obama destroyed the Democratic Party and liberalism – under Obama’s first two years, the fastest growing demographic party label was “former Democrat.” Liberalism demands that people pay for a government, but why should anyone want to pay taxes for the terrible governance Obama has implemented?

        Toast, as Matt Stoller says.
  •  Anybody watching Rachel Maddow? (8+ / 0-)

    Man, what happened to her.  Her tone of voice and attitude -- it's like she's throwing the people of Wisconsin under the bus.  A condescending, sort of told you so, attitude.  She and Debbie Wasserman Schultz should hang out together.

    I haven't watched Rachel in awhile.  Now I remember why.


    "Justice is a commodity"

    by joanneleon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:06:02 PM PDT

  •  To me, the implications of Walker's win tonight (17+ / 0-)

    is the new wave of union busting and disenfranchisement laws that will now take place in state republican governments across the country.

    The election will be seen as a referendum on Walker's governance in Wisconsin with all that implies.

    And this is in addition to destroying the largest sources of the Democratic Party's funding.  Why were they unable to see this?  Or did they simply not care, and perhaps plan on seeking funding elsewhere (knock, knock, Wall Street and super pacs)?

    "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

    by Susan Grigsby on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:06:47 PM PDT

    •  If so, they might just be waking (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      a sleeping giant...

      "The shame would be if Democrats get thrown out of office without ever having tried Democratic policies." -Bill Maher

      by DirkFunk on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:18:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That cuts both ways (4+ / 0-)

        Look for deep red states to go straight after the unions, using this as their proof to backers.  Gov Brownback nd others have to be licking their chops. Right to work states with very weak unions have to sense blood in the water

        Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

        by Chris Reeves on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:26:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The victory of Reaganism (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        3goldens, Susan from 29, RockyMtnLib

        and its doctrines of "rugged individualism" is so total, so complete, that there are no more giants to awaken, just tiny, hapless mice like OWS, that the vast overwhelming majority of Americans were delightedly amused to a point of near-orgasmic gratification to see suppressed with relentless waves of authoritarian violence.

        The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

        by ActivistGuy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:30:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  the question no one is asking (8+ / 0-)

    Is , where was Barack Obama?   Well I remember he was a few short miles away from the battleground, in Minnesota, and he could not take a short Marine One helicopter ride over the river to Wisconsin to give labor and the Democratic candidate a shot in the arm.

    And there are those who say Obama was smart to not come to Wisconsin, because of how badly things turned out tonight.

    But is Obama only supposed to go where it will be personally beneficial to him?  How many of us would tell our kids we will not go cheer for them in the Little League Baseball game against the crosstown champion team because "they are going to lose anyway and it will make us look bad." ? !

    Im sorry, but many, if not most of you, will excuse Obama for his being AWOL on one of the most important battles for labor and the middle class in decades, but I just cannot.

    And the sad thing is, if Obama had come to Wisconsin,and energized the troops,  who knows,  it might have made a difference.  Maybe not, Who knows.

    But somtimes you do the right thing just because it was the right thing to do.  The more we see of Barack Obama, the more we realize his value system is looking out for number 1.   I dont care about any of the rightwing bs, the birther thing, the socialist thing,  the "hes not a Christian thing."

    thats all bs, but one thing they are right on tonight, and that is Obama did not think Wisconsin was worth fighting for.  Oh, he did send a last minute tweet.  How giving of him!

    •  Didn't Bill Clinton go to WI? Are you saying that (7+ / 0-)

      the people of that great state could not decide to vote for their own interest unless Barack Obama showed up? Really? What amazing powers of pursuasion this Barack Obama guy has.... For many here criticizing Obama on this issue, he is pretty much a failure everywhere else...but on convincing people to vote? Well, no one is like Barack Obama.... It's simply amazing....

    •  That's his idea of leadership (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens

      same as how he spoke up about marriage equality the day after the North Carolina vote.  I for one was certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no chance he would go anywhere near Wisconsin for the duration of the struggle, and he came through just as I expected.

      The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

      by ActivistGuy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:33:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was about the issue (0+ / 0-)

        And Obama injecting himself into it would have made it about Obama, not about the issue.

        Look, you are certainly free to avoid reality and blame Obama's leadership because the recall failed (or NC voted for homophobic ballot measure), but it isn't dealing in reality.

        Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

        Stop blaming Obama and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

        by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:53:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  there ya go (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KayCeSF, sethtriggs, vespers, Lestatdelc

      Blame the President for losing a statewide fking election.

      Or the one below blaming the President--a federal goddamn official--for not interjecting himself into the middle of a state ballot initiative.

      You know what you should do? Sit out Nov and don't donate or volunteer, because that worked out swimmingly in 2010. And then when Romney ratfucks the country, you can feel superior to all those losers who worked to re-elect the President.

      I swear to fking Christ lefties in this country NEVER miss an opportunity to knife each other in the back and knee-cap each other's efforts. Because clearly what the aftermath of WI calls for is more of this crap. Good fking god.

      Personally, when I fk up, I tend to blame myself--but don't let me deny you your scapegoat.

    •  It was necessary (0+ / 0-)

      even if it was a lost cause.  

      But somtimes you do the right thing just because it was the right thing to do.
      And I don't accept that it was a lost cause.  More of a self-fulfilling prophecy.  But even if it was doomed to failure, you have to be seen as somebody who fights, not somebody who avoids a fight to save face, even when others are expecting you to step forward.  

      There was less for him to lose by putting in an appearance than what he lost tonight by sending in his obligatory tweet.

    •  Yay! Another moronic "blame Obama" rant (0+ / 0-)

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      Stop blaming Obama and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:52:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You've spammed, (0+ / 0-)
        Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.
        how many times in the comments now? You must have missed the rebuttals to your point with the recalls in California to get Arnie in. Effective messaging is necessary to overcome any recall aversion that was either already in place or was planted by conservative media.
  •  Exactly. (8+ / 0-)

    And now, guess what?  Republicans will take this as some sort of vindication of their policies and start pushing them everywhere.

    28, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:09:25 PM PDT

    •  Yep (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sunspots, TDDVandy, jaywillie, 3goldens, Apost8

      I saw the word "mandate" being used on the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel's website within minutes of it being called.

      Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

      by EthrDemon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:12:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yup! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      3goldens, Apost8

      "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?" Barry Goldwater

      by ranton on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:13:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Corbett's latest racket in PA (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TDDVandy

      Gut maternity programs for low income women, while pushing for $1 billion+ tax rebates to open a single natural gas processing center. This is after he gutted state education funding.

      Fortunately, we legalized gambling a couple of years ago so we're rolling in the revenue that gener...oh, wait--that's right. It hasn't done anything except line the pockets of the legislators in Harrisburg who wrote it into the law that they could own so much of a percentage in gambling interests (slot machine manufacturers, etc). Of course, that was during "Fast Eddie" Rendell's tenure. He didn't sacrifice education for billionaires though.

  •  How much is this Wisconsinites opposing the recall (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, rvb909400, DrFood, yella dawg

    I would like to know how many of the people who voted disagreed with the very concept of a recall and just kept him in office.

    •  There's a deeper failure there (7+ / 0-)

      if he Democratic Party were associated with abiding principles of social solidarity and class consciusness, those sort of principles would have revealed the pettiness of "not liking" recalls when the futures of millions of working Americans, both within Wisconsin and all across the country are endangered by a predatory greed-raid.  But the reality is that today's Democratic Party, even many of today's unions, have no such abiding principles, and certainly have nothing of the sort to convey to average citizens.  Thus foolhardy "not liking recalls" justifies in the minds of tens of thousands of working Wisconsinites that it's perfectly ok for them to shit all over the lives, hopes and futures of millions of their fellow working Americans.

      Until that changes, all there will be is more of the same.

      The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

      by ActivistGuy on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:24:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is the reason why Barrett lost (7+ / 0-)

      Living in Wisconsin and voting for Barrett, I think you hit the nail on the head. The exit poll said 6 in 10 thought recalls should only be for crimes. Many people I work with (mainly republicans and independents) do not like Walker but they did not feel he deserved to get booted from office since elections have consequences. The other big reason in my opinion is Barrett had a terrible strategy. Somebody told him to run on Walker's jobs record. Should a governor be recalled (the voter equivalent of impeachment) because of a crappy jobs record? There would be a lot of out of work governors. The outside ads made a big deal that he created 30,000 jobs. Barrett said Walker didn't create jobs. The average voter doesn't know who to believe. Barrett needed to either slam Walker on how ONLY 30,000 jobs created is terrible OR run against him for the reason people signed all of the petitions - he abused his power and went too far on collective bargaining and his right wing agenda.

      •  That is an excellent point. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ranton

        So Barrett was running in large part as if this were a regular election instead of running on why this was a special election (and it wasn't about 30K jobs).

        I think the recall not being about a crime may have been a bigger factor than anyone thought.

      •  Do these people not realize or care (0+ / 0-)

        that Walker very well may be indicted?

        liberal bias = failure to validate or sufficiently flatter the conservative narrative on any given subject

        by RockyMtnLib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:35:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That is really interesting (0+ / 0-)

        As someone from the outside, I thought it was always a referendum on the abuse of power and his unilateral stripping of collective bargaining rights which is why the recall started in the first place - a very clear single issue.

        If Barrett turned it just into a plain vanilla election about his jobs record, then he would have absolutely re-inforced the opinion of all those people who thought the Dems just wanted a mulligan and a do-over. Who gave him that advice? Bob Shrum? Mark Penn?

        “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

        by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:03:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well, we did give for Pres Clinton (0+ / 0-)

    Plenty of airtime to denounce Obama's jobs report and to praise Romney's business acumen, so that had to be good for... Hey, wait a second...

    Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

    by Chris Reeves on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:18:24 PM PDT

  •  America now has more haters than decent people, (12+ / 0-)

    and Wisconsin is just showing the fact. It took thirty years of right-wing propaganda to bring us to this point, but now that it's here, all the 1% have to do is buy enough advertising to make the haters dance to their tune.

    Yeah, it would be great if the decent people got up on their hind legs and started fighting back like the good people of Wisconsin did. But there just aren't enough of them any more.

    The fact that a zero like Romney can instantly become competitive after six months of displaying his utter vacuousness is all the proof you need to see that nothing serious matters any more. If Dems manage to hold on during this election cycle, it will only be by dumb luck--and then they'll probably squander the opportunity again by being timid and fearful of offending right-wingers who would cut their hearts out if they thought they could get away with it.

    When a Democrat arises who is not afraid to ATTACK the right and fling their filthy viciousness in their faces, and call on all decent Americans to repudiate the hate-filled nastiness of contemporary conservatism by flinging all conservatives out of elective office immediately and replacing them with people who actual care about their fellow citizens--only when someone with that kind of zeal and moral disgust for the right will have a chance of actually getting enough people to follow him into the thick of the fight that will be necessary to take the nation away from those who want to loot it and leave it an empty shell.

    If that person doesn't arise soon, there won't be any nation to save.

  •  You're Forgetting One Thing..... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoyoteMarti, KayCeSF, yella dawg

    The hapless, hopeless neanderthal who is Mitt Romney.  Trying to sell that guy to independents & the general public requires a tightly scripted, no opportunity for questions campaign.

    Eventually, he's going to have to debate Obama where his idiocy will be exposed.

    60% of voters in Wisconsin tonight don't like recalls....unless a verifiable crime has been committed.  Too bad the John Doe investigation wasn't further along.

    That shoe may drop soon.  

  •  You beat Citizens United by... (3+ / 0-)

    ....linking Repubs to billionaire and foreign donors. You hit them at their strength - rural voters who love conspiracy talk. Rural folk don't much care for foreign money being spent on our shores to manipulate our government.

    Of course, this would require message discipline and twitter sound-bytes, not lengthy policy dissertations.

    •  Rural voters (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DarkestHour

      Represnt the core of small government, anti-abortion groups.  They don't give two shits about foreign money as long as their man is anti abortion, anti gun control and so on.  Complex messages about where there funding comes fom is to complicated in comparison to 'who's antiabortion?  That's my vote right there... Hand me a Natural Light Steve Dave'

      Gandhi's Seven Sins: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Commerce without morality; Science without humanity; Worship without sacrifice; Politics without principle

      by Chris Reeves on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:32:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  could not agree more - well said (0+ / 0-)
  •  i hate to say it if people didn't listen (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xndem

    listen to cenk, ed , jane in 2010 & tell them not to vote they would not hae the problem with walker in the first place pres obama did go into wi & campagain for feingold. now they are mad because he did did not go into  wi .. it was not about him it was about wi & walker.
    its a dam shame that the kaoch brothers stole the election its everyones responsiblity to get off their ass
    & vote & not cry about what hte republicans are going to do to us the day after if they don't

  •  In the end it's about coming out to vote. No (0+ / 0-)

    amount of money for ads can buy a voter.  You can fool a voter but you can't buy one.  Dems never turn out in numbers unless it's the presidential election and even then they fail to come out in numbers after they win the big one.  Let's hope they come out and vote in Nov.

    The vote is what counts.

  •  You mean the couple of minutes ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yella dawg

    ... that Chris Hayes spent on Wisconsin a couple of days before the election wasn't enough? Glenn Greenwald spent zero (0) column space about Wisconsin. Hmm, I would think that a "Constitutional lawyer and civil rights litigator" would give a crap about the Citizens United decision and the millions and millions of corporate dollars spent by Koch and company. But that is just more divide and conquer talk if you ask me. Time to put that stuff in the past, and get over the hurt feelings.

    We saw some amazing heroic efforts from people at dkos, including the OLB, the Badger diarists, and we now have a template for beating all that money spent by corporations. The next spate of elections won't be recalls. Moreover, the advertising dollar advantage won't be nearly so lopsided.  

    It was always going to be difficult to win all the recall races in Wisconsin. What was it? The third recall election of a governor in the history of the United States. Facing state senate races in red districts and tens of millions of dollars, the Democrats still wrested control of the state senate from Walker. That's pretty amazing in itself given the hurdles involved. Moreover, the spotlight on Walker has more than likely intensified the scrutiny of his misdeeds which will likely lead to prison time for Snotty.

    Time to get together and not farther apart.  

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:33:54 PM PDT

  •  Rachel just said 86% of voters say (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    randomfacts, askew

    they made up their minds about who they would vote for in early May.  So that means all the money spent by Walker, anything the DNC might have done after May, all the ground work and everything else done to GOTV, was a waste of time?

    >????<

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:36:49 PM PDT

    •  Is it a real surprise? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse

      94% of the people who voted for Walker, also voted for him in 2010. 94% of the people who voted for Barrett, also voted for him in 2010.

      "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

      by randomfacts on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:25:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess I am an idiot and figured that (0+ / 0-)

        at least some of the 94% who voted for Walker in 2010 would have woken up to who he really is and would have voted Barrett.  Oh well, live and learn.  

        I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

        by KayCeSF on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:00:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Koch Brothers wanted Dems to spend bigger (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CoyoteMarti, ivote2004, randomfacts

    They wanted the DNC and other democratic organizations to push a ton of money into this election. This would have weakened these organizations going forward and made the country easy pickings in November.

    There are 49 other states to deal with outside of Wisconsin.

    If you go all in and lose, you are left with nothing. This is one battle in the longer war. The 50-state strategy would be nice if we had the money, but we don't. Citizens United has changed all of that.

    The only solution is to keep up the GOTV and to give until it hurts.

    I have already given a fair amount already to several organizations. I have given nothing to the Wisconsin recall.

    They looked at the numbers and their cash reserves and realized it would hurt them long-term to do this. It was cold, but the decision had to be made.

  •  We lost because we fought the good fight (6+ / 0-)

    while they fought the smart fight. They might be human scum but they're not stupid, politically at least. We might be morally better and have better policies but we're kind of, how do I put it, politically stupid.

    Just listen to your typicaly Democratic politician, leader or surrogate. What do you hear? Someone who inspires you? No, you hear an insipid talking points drone more concerned about not offending anyone than in saying something original, honest and inspiring.

    Obama won to a large extent because, say what you will about his abilities and accomplishments as president, but as a campaigner he WAS inspiring, while McCain was angry uncle weirdo. Bush may have been an idiot, but he had a folksy (if fake) good old boy charm that Gore and Kerry lacked. Same for Reagan vs. Carter and Mondale, and even Bush I over Dukakis.

    And yes, by smart I mean in a propagandistic way, even a dishonest way. American voters are clueless idiots and the only way to win over enough of them is by selling them a bill of goods in ways that they're likely to find appealing. These are the same people who stuff themselves with 5000 calorie, 150mg fat triple bacon cheeseburgers and cheese fries. Anyone who does that IS AN IDIOT, and thus need to be treated as such to get their vote.

    The GOP gets that. Why don't we? We have to stop respecting the average voter and start treating them like the idiots who want to be lied to that they clearly are. And then, and only then, can we start the process of making them not idiots. We have this exactly backwards. To govern well, you have to first win, and to win, you have to LIE. Hats off to the GOP for getting that.

    And hell yes, I'm cynical. Has anyone ever succeeded in politics without being cynical? Look at the founders. They were all cynics who despised average Americans for being vain, ignorant and easily duped fools.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:41:50 PM PDT

  •  Blame everyone but the actual candidate (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ddn, yella dawg, vespers, askew

    Maybe Tom Barrett just wasn't the right man? He already lost in 2010, after all. And since he supported Walker's bill (or at least used it) and purposely distanced himself from the unions, positing as some sort of Third Way centrist, he had no message. The DNC was smart to see that the recall was lost and so they didn't waste any money on it.

    "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

    by randomfacts on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:49:46 PM PDT

    •  Thank you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      randomfacts, askew

      Was about to post the same thing. I actually take comfort in the fact that The DNC looked at the data and picked their battles prudently.

      •  If anything, the big margin of victory (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ddn, askew, Lestatdelc

        for Walker proves they made the right decision. If they had put in a huge push, it might've made a 1-2% difference, but no more, and then the damage would have been far greater. But some folks here are a one-note record. They'll keep saying the same thing regardless of what happens. Every data point is proof of their case, no matter what it is.

        "It is, it seems, politically impossible to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to prove my case -- except in war conditions."--JM Keynes, 1940

        by randomfacts on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:23:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I understand (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          askew

          It sucks for sure and people are pissed. I don't blame them, but I was expecting tonight because of the polls. From now on can we please stop trying to deny polls unless we have a scientific or mathematical reason?

        •  Self-fulfilling prophecy. (0+ / 0-)

          There's a whole wikipedia entry on it.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          A self-fulfilling prophecy is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to become true, by the very terms of the prophecy itself, due to positive feedback between belief and behavior. Although examples of such prophecies can be found in literature as far back as ancient Greece and ancient India, it is 20th-century sociologist Robert K. Merton who is credited with coining the expression "self-fulfilling prophecy" and formalizing its structure and consequences. In his book Social Theory and Social Structure, Merton defines self-fulfilling prophecy in the following terms: e.g. when Roxanna falsely believes her marriage will fail, her fears of such failure actually cause the marriage to fail.

              The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come 'true'. This specious validity of the self-fulfilling prophecy perpetuates a reign of error. For the prophet will cite the actual course of events as proof that he was right from the very beginning.[1]

          In other words, a prophecy, strongly held belief, or a delusion, declared as truth when it is actually false may sufficiently influence people, either through fear or logical confusion, so that their reactions ultimately fulfill the once-false belief.

          Overkill, I know.
          •  You need to get back to reality (0+ / 0-)

            Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

            Stop blaming Obama, the DNC, and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

            cheers,

            Mitch Gore

            Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

            by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:58:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  The DNC did spend money (0+ / 0-)

      The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:57:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It's about propaganda which has (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yella dawg, RockyMtnLib

    been catapulted out there since Reagan took office, even before that. The first stirrings of privatization happened during the Ford and Carter Administrations.

    Year after inexorable year, the themes the Right has wanted to inculcate into the public consciousness have been paraded before the public until it's hard to remember anything else. And fact dies in the face of this feeling of permanence.

    In Nineteen Eighty-Four, Orwell created a language, Newspeak, that would actually limit thought until no one could think outside the party line. The protagonist, Winston Smith worked in the Ministry of Truth, Minitrue in Newspeak, where facts inconvenient to the Party were fed into the Memory Hole, never to be seen again. After that all that remained was to create a new "truth" that always was and always would be. Of course what remained unspoken was that that "truth" could also disappear down the Memory Hole.

    The Right has been engaged in a long propaganda campaign of over 40 years. And all the Left has had to counter it have been facts and figures, but never sold with the same intensity as the "reality" the Right has sought to create.

    Until we get really serious about finding ways to constantly shape the dialogue, it will be shaped for us by the Right. And that would be wrong.

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:50:31 PM PDT

  •  I wonder if everybody missed the fact (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    randomfacts, askew, Lestatdelc

    That 60% of the voters disagreed with recall except in cases of misconduct ?  All of you gloom & doomers miss the fact the Pew has Obama up 7% nationally along with PPP having Obama up 4 in Florida now or that Rasmussen has a tie or  -1 for Obama after he was down -4 last week or that Gallup has Obama up 1 rather the  tie or down a couple a week ago.

  •  Long way to a small point... (0+ / 0-)

    In this article. Got outspent. Golly.

    There was massive effort from organized labor and the Progressive www. That should at least offset the spending. It's up to voters not to be moron enough to fall for rigged-up advertising, bought by the 1% to cancel out the remaining social benefits of the middle class.

    A better option is to leave Wisconsin if living there, boycott it from anywhere. Same for Arizona. Same for Alabama - anywhere these extremists wrestle control away from moderates.

    In Ohio, the same progressive effort shut down Kasich's SB 5 with relative ease. Voters get what they fall for...

    Balkingpoints.com - global issues

    by Balkingpoints on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:51:27 PM PDT

  •  Great diary (8+ / 0-)

    The DNC loves to waste money on blue dogs and other crap, but they can't even pretend to care about labor until being shamed into it, but too little too late.

    ‎"Bipartisan usually means that a larger-than-usual deception is being carried out." - George Carlin - Thank you! I'm now going to Netroots Nation!

    by priceman on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:52:57 PM PDT

    •  Labor is a competing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      priceman

      power source within the Democratic Party.  It used to be the dominant one.  That's part of the dynamic here.

    •  The facts don't fit your preconceived narrative (0+ / 0-)

      The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:02:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So to sum it all up (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    UntimelyRippd, jayden, DarkestHour

    We belong to the stupidest political party ever.  

    How else to explain repetitiously losing to the stupidest politicians ever, the tea party?

  •  Search for Citizens get me lastest corruption. (0+ / 0-)

    I wanted to read Justice Kennedy on Citizen United and my first result is the weekly corruption of our whole god damn system of governance, the courts, legislature, and executive. I can't even hit the case without finding a laundry list of scams and corruption.

    In this case, a school profiteer, swindler wants to buy a judge in North Carolina. Jesus fucking christ.

    http://thinkprogress.org/...

    -snip-
    "The new super PAC – officially known as an independent expenditure committee – is comprised of Republican heavy-hitters. Wealthy businessman and charter school entrepreneur Bob Luddy is the committee’s chairman. Tom Fetzer, former chairman of the state Republican Party, and I. Beverly Lake, a former chief justice of the state Supreme Court, serve on its board of directors."
    -snip-

    Is there any other modern region of the world with this level of insanity? What options do we have? We're back in feudal god damn Europe! We have to begin the process of imagining new systems of value. This money-bond, wealth extraction is a death trap.

    Gotye - Smoke And Mirrors
    http://www.youtube.com/...

  •  Obama and the DNC hate people power. (9+ / 0-)
    I hope we can see from this that when it comes to certain people and certain causes, the Democratic Party pulls out all the stops.  They spend it in ways that are not related to any strategy of furthering progressive goals or shoring up progressive long term assets like union organization and GOTV.  This isn't about strategy to them.  It's about control.
    Yes it is.

    And don't forget how Obama and the party did nothing to help Ned Lamont, the Democrat, defeat Lieberman. Because Ned Lamont was their enemy, too.

    Obama and the DNC want to give orders to voters, not take them from the voters. We're supposed to mobilize when and how they say.

    Barack Obama: Gives people who tortured other people to death a pass, prosecutes whistleblowers. Change we can believe in!

    by expatjourno on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:57:13 PM PDT

    •  I've always believed they saw Ned Lamont (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      expatjourno, WisePiper, lostinamerica

      as their enemy.  He was an outsider.  Joe Liebermann was good ol' Joe.  Even when he was voting against Democratic interests... well, hell, that was just Joe being Joe, heh heh.

      They feel threatened by candidates that arise outside their normal vetting process.

    •  Right... (0+ / 0-)

      Because the DNC didn't raise $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA didn't chip in 3 million and OFA didn't set up 60 offices for Barrett... they all simply hate people power.

      (rolls eyes)

      You are simply talking out your ass.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:03:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  dude. you don't have to respond (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pot

        to every critique of Obama in regard to the Wisconsin recall.

        Seriously, we get the 60% thing. You've said it about 20 times.

        Yes, it is bread we fight for - but we fight for roses, too! Sick of the endless battles, namecalling and hostility? Join Courtesy Kos -- A group dedicated to respect and civility.

        by rexymeteorite on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:14:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  When Wisconsin see their wages decline, and their (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    standard of living go down, they will understand.

    Expect Walker to go to jail. Obama will win Wisconsin by linking Romney to a corrupt Governor.

  •  "They mobilized their party, (0+ / 0-)

    they mobilized their donors."

    Isn't that causality backward?

    Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

    by Simplify on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:06:11 PM PDT

  •  Dems lost because Barrett highjacked the recall. (5+ / 0-)

    Barrett was able to change the election from a referendum on Walker to a rerun of the the Barrett-Walker 2010 race.  

    Voters had rejected Barrett twice already.  

    The unions ran against him in the Democratic primary because Barrett supported cutting union pay and benefits to fix problems caused by big banks and Wall St crooks.
    A grass roots movement got hijacked by a hack politicians last hurrah.

    Which is a good news bad news.  Bad news in that Walker and Tea Party will say it reaffirmed their right wing ideology. Good news in that it didn't it was just voters rejecting Barret AGAIN.  This was confirmed by the exit polls of the very same voters that Obama lead Romney by 11% in a electorate that gave Walker a 20% win.

  •  This does not bode well for November. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, lostinamerica

    Two corporatist candidates running against each other and the worse one will have 20 times the money. Democrats cannot win Coke vs Pepsi races.

    Coke may be a superior soft drink, but if Pepsi spends 20 times more on advertising, Pepsi wins. Especially if Coke is sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup instead of sugar.

    Barack Obama: Gives people who tortured other people to death a pass, prosecutes whistleblowers. Change we can believe in!

    by expatjourno on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:22:18 PM PDT

  •  The recall failed because: (0+ / 0-)

    38% of union households voted for Walker:
    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    That number being more than 0% just tells you all you need to know about the failure of rank and file union members to understand the stakes. Either that or they were being petty because Barrett won the primary and not their person.

    I'm not going to pretend to know the reason why. All I know is that it justifies not really wasting a lot of DNC resources on a quixotic fight. Elections have consequences and Wisconsin made a choice in 2010. This is what Democrats and the 99% get for sitting home and sulking in 2010. Get out and vote, and vote for the best person on the ballot even if it isn't a perfect person.

    •  A member in a union household voted for Walker... (0+ / 0-)

      not necessarily union members.  When Wisconsinites talk about how Walker has divided the state, we are also talking family relationships.  

      I'm fairly sure my husband, a small business owner, voted for Walker.  He hates unions; and there is nothing I can say to change his mind.  Believe me, we have had many a heated "discussion" during the last 16 months.  Our household income declined, and he has witnessed my personal pain from being the scapegoat for Walker's political vendetta. He keeps telling me that the ReTHUGs will never go after my pension...Yeah...Mr. Clueless!  Because he values his employees, he manages and compensates them accordingly. He cannot wrap his brain around the right of unionization.  To say this has strained our marriage is an understatement.

      This is not just my dynamic tonight in Wisconsin.  Please keep that in mind as you castigate union members.

      "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?" Barry Goldwater

      by ranton on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:01:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  K.I.S.S. version of this diary if possible. (0+ / 0-)

    I can't see straight.

  •  I don't agree with any part of this diary. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dumbo

    Instead of fighting, they should have just sat back and waited for Walker to really piss the people off? Really? That sounds remarkably like what the House Repukes are doing. They won't pass Obama's jobs bill because that will help him get re-elected. Meanwhile, there are millions of people who are living on the edge while these jerks play their game. When Walker shot down the unions, half of the union members dropped their union membership. Maybe all of them would have, had the union leaders not stepped in and started the fight. With unions, all working people have a fighting chance. Without unions, there are no protections for workers. Did we lose because of overwhelming money on the other side, and little on our side? If that's what happened, whatever DWS brought wasn't going to change that. If people power doesn't win over money, we're screwed. The unions have been our people power, and we lost much more than the race this time. We lost the union people. So put the blame wherever it makes you comfortable, but I think you're wrong. Note: and don't discount the dirty tricks.

    Your left is my right---Mort Sahl

    by HappyinNM on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:27:58 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for not being a pollyanna (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dumbo, lostinamerica

    This is a significant loss. Americans can no longer tell right from wrong. This is about people thinking that it is in their best interest to be crushed under the wheel. Who can predict where this will end.

    "You can die for Freedom, you just can't exercise it"

    by shmuelman on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:33:30 PM PDT

  •  Disorganized, disappointed and doomed. (0+ / 0-)

    I have no more to say.

  •  Overzealous and wishful thinking (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse

    Look, unions in the public sector aren't a popular thing outside of the liberal wing.  To a moderate and independent,  unions inside government make no sense since the public funds their payrolls and has the power to change the structure through voting.  We kidded ourselves thinking that the people of Wisconsin wouldn't stand for decoupling collective bargaining from public unions.  Turns out, Wisconsin is very Red - not whacked out marrying your first cousin teabagging Red, but full of moderate Republicans and Independents.  They can vote down public collective bargaining and still vote for Obama.  Their minds were made up long before the Kochs and Rove spent $30 million.  The results were nearly identical to 2010.

    Many have decried Obama's refusal to embroil himself in this battle.  I hope the reasons why are clear now.  He wouldn't have made a difference.  In fact, getting heavily involved in this fight would have only hurt his chances of carrying Wisconsin in November.

    'Slower Traffic - Keep Right!'

    by luvbrothel on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:35:10 PM PDT

  •  Dare to struggle; dare to win (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dumbo

    The Republicans, the Right, the Koch brothers, Scott Walker--they saw an opportunity and went full throttle.  They know how to step on throats--national Dems, ha-ha.

    It is, indeed, a huge victory for them.  Put Scott Walker on a very short list for 2016 and get ready for the final push to the sea.

    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act--Orwell

    by jhannon on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 10:39:36 PM PDT

  •  This pretty much explains it. (0+ / 0-)

    Per HuffPo:

    However, Walker won 17 percent of those who say they will support Obama in November.
    •  So, let's do the arithmetic (0+ / 0-)

      Walker won 56.2% to 46.3%, a gap of 6.9%.  Suppose that half of the voters favor Obama, then that 17% of his supporters constitute 6.5% of the voters.  Had they all voted for Barrett instead of Walker, that would take 6.5% away from Walker giving him 49.7% and added  6.5% to Barrett's 46.3% giving him 52.8%.

      So the fact that Barack "I'll put on my marching shoes" Obama was a no-show may have been the deciding factor.

      •  What horseshit (0+ / 0-)

        Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

        Stop blaming Obama and start dealing in reality.

        cheers,

        Mitch Gore

        Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

        by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:05:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  i agree with and disagree with this diary (0+ / 0-)

    I agree the chicken shit DNC & a timid White House played a key role in this defeat. But at the end of the day, we were pummeled 10 to 1. 10-TO-1.
    ANYBODY can win an election when you're outspending your opponent 10 to frickin' 1 y'all. So yeah, the Koch brothers did play a huge role in this. CU DID play a huge role in this. Nobody can win elections with those odds.

    •  not true (0+ / 0-)

      Brown beat what's her name in CA last time.

      money provides advantage, sure, but there is more.

      Walker already won this same election.

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 05:53:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yay! Another faceless stupid rant against reality (0+ / 0-)

      The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

      You are simply talking out your ass.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      Stop blaming OFA and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:06:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Enough people were persuaded by the "do-over".... (0+ / 0-)

    ....argument.  A significant minority felt that a recall shouldn't be based on policy issues, rather it requires proven malfeasance by the incumbent to remove him from office.

    In addition, government employees at any level are particularily popular, even if they are teachers, cops, or firefighters.  Trust me, I work for the government  and see the resentment every day.

    Throw in the Kock brothers millions to fan these fires and it was an uphill battle all the way.

  •  DNC is nowThe Incumbant protection slush fund (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinamerica, pot

    They disgust me.

    Republicans take care of big money, for big money takes care of them ~ Will Rogers

    by Lefty Coaster on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:21:04 AM PDT

    •  Oh? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ddn

      The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      Stop blaming the DNC and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:06:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Not buying it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mightymouse, ddn

    Ohio won its fight without the DNC, and did it despite spending by AFP. We also did it without histrionics like camping out at the Statehouse, overpass light brigades and other stunts and endless drama ("look at what the Walker thugs are doing today!")  that just put a large fraction of the electorate off.

    Key I think was the idea that it was a bipartisan issue, and the campaign to repeal was just the old-fashioned rallies, bumper stickers, phonebanking, canvassing etc. that even erstwhile Republicans (like much of the police and fire unions) could get behind. We didn't even have to demonize Kasich that much, just underscore that he is an idiot.

  •  Money and GOD! Until humans stop FOLLOWING (0+ / 0-)

    and realize that one can be a decent person without GOD and can live fairly well with less money-Nothing will change those Politics-Tweedle Ds and tweedles-Dumbs; two sides of the same COIN!   OY!

    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones."

    "Life without emotions is like an engine without fuel."

    by roseeriter on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 03:11:44 AM PDT

  •  Delusional (0+ / 0-)

    Walker-Barrett was 53.2%-46.3%.  That is hardly close.  (For reference, Bush-Gore was 47.9% - 48.4% in the popular vote.)

    The public in Wisconsin simply did not agree with the progressive diagnosis of the situation.  Deal with it.

  •  GOP won because Dems leave their best weapon alone (0+ / 0-)

    If you want to use war analogy that's it- everything walker says and does is based on a well established alternate reality
    -a reality sold with coordinated UNCHALENGED repetition from a radio monopoly.

    This was another victory for RW talk radio.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 04:42:15 AM PDT

  •  another win for team limbaugh- progressives (0+ / 0-)

    in general as well as the dem party to blame for continuing to ignore the big problem- the ability of the right to dominate the message on national and local level and create and maintain their own reality year after year.

    WIS: more proof the protests need to go to the RW radio stations.

    The entire walker tea party reality depends on unchallenged RW radio repetition and like the Iraq war  and Climate change protests the peaceful protests should have gone to the root of the problem so they couldn't yell over them .

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 05:00:25 AM PDT

  •  This is a fucking brilliant diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lostinamerica

    which absolutely nails the real "lesson" from yesterday's debacle:

    Some people get the importance of fighting back.  Some don't.
    The national Democratic Party is every bit as much the agent of Beltway "wisdom" as are the Thugs.

    The climate change clock keeps ticking, and the Wasserman-Schultz's of the world are mostly scrambling to find themselves a place on the Ark.

    When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

    by PhilJD on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:18:20 AM PDT

    •  More reality denial I see (0+ / 0-)

      The DNC raised $1.4 million for Barrett. The DGA chipped in 3 million and OFA set up 60 offices for Barrett.

      Facts are, 60% of the voters simply do not support recalls unless there is clear criminal misconduct shown by the person being recalled.

      Stop blaming OFA and the rest of the party and start dealing in reality.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:07:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We lost because "Misery Loves Company". People (0+ / 0-)

    are hurting, don't have jobs, etc., so why should public employees get more.  Fact is, unemployment is rampant, and those in charge know that public employees will work for less.  Supply, demand.  Bottom line, if the standard of living is decreasing for many Americans, those people want to bring everyone down to their level.  Misery loves company.  Republicans at the top know this.  People vote with their gut, not with their brain.  Democrats don't understand how to message to the gut.  

  •  EASY for Wasserman-Schultz (0+ / 0-)

    to say; she has a great job with great pay and benefits.

    She's about as wrong as it gets.

    The anti-union battle is at the state level. and it's happening in all of the rust belt states in the midwest.

    With Wasserman-Schultz and other "democrats", you need to read between the lines, i.e. "we don't really need Labor to win elections any more, so why give a crap about what happens to unions/union workers?"

    They're not going to be as quite as bold as Rahmbo Emanuel, who while part of Obama's staff said "F*** the unions".

    "I don't feel the change yet". Velma Hart

    by Superpole on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:43:14 AM PDT

  •  I love your last sentence (0+ / 0-)
    You can't win if your party doesn't think it's important enough to really try  
    And that, in the end, is why the President should have been there. It's why Biden should have been there. It's why Howard Dean, Debbie W-Schultz, etc. should have been there.

    Our high and mighty principles and self-congratulation on our ideals and standing for the poor and middle class mean very little when you don't win.

    In another 25 years, this country will be the economic equivalent of South Africa under apartheid - the 1% owning and earning everything and the 99% to serve them.

    What will it take to get us to fight to win when it counts, not just with our words?

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by absdoggy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:59:18 AM PDT

  •  Money is only a tool. (0+ / 0-)

    However, you need the right tool to fix anything.  

    Don't Democrats have the same tools?  

    The only time a tool doesn't work is when you give it to a tool.  

    You don't need to firebomb Dresden to prove that you can fly a plane.

    by SpamNunn on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:20:01 AM PDT

  •  Confederates did just that (0+ / 0-)
    imagine if a Confederate general had said, "Sure, let that Yankee Sherman burn the crops.  It's just going to make the citizenry madder at them!  We might even get more recruits out of this!"
    The Confederate generals chose not to oppose Sherman, but instead invaded Tennessee. The result was disaster.
    •  I think part of the reason (0+ / 0-)

      Walker won is a scheme cooked up to boost the numbers of absentee voters.

      Perfectly legal, as near as I can figure.  Unless, of course it wasn't.

      The scheme?  Simple.  Send absentee voter applications to potential voters.  Republican potential voters. Make it super easy for them to vote.

      Notice how in Republican districts the numbers went way way up for Walker?

      This might be why.

      Municipalities deal with flood of absentee votes, potential fraud

      Election officials spot suspicious absentee ballot applications

      Municipal clerks across the region have reported receiving hundreds of absentee ballot application forms, many of which were apparently mailed to voters by PACs. Some of the clerks said most of the activity was in support of Gov. Scott Walker and in opposition to the recall. The idea of PACs mailing out absentee ballot applications to encourage voters to support a particular candidate or proposition in a general election is relatively new to election politics, according to local clerks. They said it began in the 2008 presidential campaign. They anticipated it would occur in the recall election, and they expect more of it during the 2012 presidential election.

      http://www.livinglakecountry.com/...
  •  If the Koch brothers ran a $100m campaign (0+ / 0-)

    and in a survey the people answered "the ocean is blue and the sky is green", well they get what they deserve.

    This election is/was way beyond being defined by money.  The simple matter is the republicans promised the electorate free money from other people's pensions, people who have done their task and are waiting to get paid.  Unlike taxing rich people (who might retaliate), retirees have no leverage.  It is simply "independents" looking for free money from easy prey.  No amount of DNC money could have changed this.

    and their contempt for the Latin schools was applauded by Theodoric himself, who gratified their prejudices, or his own, by declaring that the child who had trembled at a rod would never dare to look upon a sword.

    by ban48 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:05:30 AM PDT

  •  The DNC didn't take this seriously enough (0+ / 0-)

    and it costs all of us huge. If Debbie Wasserman Schultz doesn't see national implications, she's not thinking about it real hard then.

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