Skip to main content

There is some reality that many here fail to see.   The democratic defeat in Wisconsin was massive and definitive.    And it says a lot about what may happen in November.

Although many here will disagree, I believe that the reasons for this historic defeat are very simple.   The democratic party has moved to the right over the last decade, especially the last few years under the leadership of Obama.   The democratic party has been unable to stand up for any traditional democratic principles in recent years and it has become the "old" more reasonable republican party.    A republican-lite party.

Obama is probably to the right of Nixon and the democratic party is probably to the right of the republican party of 70s and 80s.   Unless things change in the democratic party, the country as whole will continue moving to the right and more people like Walker will keep getting elected.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Yup. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aspe4

    Marginally-less-plutocratic simply isn't that compelling for at least a quarter of the population. The choice between the firing squad, life in prison and the third way: life in front of a firing squad.

    The only reason that change is so hard is that the moderates on "our" side are Tories who support the aristocracy.

    by Words In Action on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:08:14 AM PDT

  •  Or... (9+ / 0-)

    It meant that the majority of people of the Great State of Wisconsin found no problem with the policies of Gov. Walker...  Nah, it's because the president and the Democratic party are the right of Republicans on everything.  That makes more sense!

    The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing online commenters that they have anything to say.-- B.F.

    by lcj98 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:15:33 AM PDT

    •  You're Actually Right, Despite the Snark. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      absdoggy, rcnewton

      When people don't have an alternative and both major parties support corporate interests over the interests of workers, people will be conditioned to have no problem with Walker's policies.

      "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

      by Aspe4 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:18:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Basically diarist and tippers are saying they (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Smoh, kestrel9000

      didnt or wouldn't have voted for Barrett. Why are they here, on this Democratic site, if the Democratic Party is just "republican-lite"?

      •  I'm not saying that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aspe4

        I would have voted for Barrett. What I'm saying is that the reasons for voting for Barrett haven't been articulated well or at all by Democrats in general for quite a long time.

        We have been losing ground on basically everything we have ever historically stood for. We're either doing a piss-poor job or our leaders don't reflect our actual viewpoints and the media certainly doesn't either.

        Democrats can expect to see the ground continue to erode under them unless and until they clarify their viewpoint from the centrist mush it has become.

        We need PASSION! What we don't need is carefully calibrated, pragmatic, bi-partisany compromise.

        “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

        by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:33:15 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly! (0+ / 0-)

          It's not like that "carefully calibrated, pragmatic, bi-partisany compromise" was in establishing our existing laws and contributed to the growth of our country.  It's hyper-partisanism that gets things done.

          The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing online commenters that they have anything to say.-- B.F.

          by lcj98 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:40:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Are you the owner of the site? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        quince

        or do you feel like that?  

        Criticizing the democratic party for moving more and more to the right is exactly what is needed.  

        •  Indeed. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GoGoGoEverton

          Ralph Nader showed how to do that, didn't he? I mean, fuck the Democrats, and how bad could a bunch of deranged teabaggers possibly be? Abortion rights, gay rights, paycheck equity, student loans, that's all just rightwing distraction from shit that really matters.

          Right?

          Fuck me, it's a leprechaun.

          by MBNYC on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:43:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  They DIDN'T say anything like that, really (0+ / 0-)

        but if it makes you feel like loyal Member of the Inner Circle Club to say so --  

        Our "Republican Friends" do it all the time:

        Make up some words.  
        Put them in the mouths of the people you want to discredit.
        Attack the words.

        That's just what we need: more Democrats who sound like Republicans.

  •  Wow! So much wrongness packed into... (9+ / 0-)

    so few words.

    1. And it says a lot about what may happen in November.

    Except it doesn't, as Markos himself has diaried this morning. Exit-poll question posed to Wisconsin voters: Who do plan on voting for in November:
    Obama 51%
    Romney 44%

    2. The democratic party has moved to the right over the last decade, especially the last few years under the leadership of Obama.

    Supreme Court justices Sotomayor and Kagan, repeal of DADT, ignoring DOMA, national healthcare, embracing gay marriage, highest-ever vehicle-mileage requirements.

    Yeah, President Obama's really a right-wing ideologue.

    How about I believe in the unlucky ones?

    by BenderRodriguez on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:16:17 AM PDT

  •  Reality? (9+ / 0-)

    There are diaries all over the rec list about being outspent 3:1, etc. No polls on turnout have come back with "neither candidate is leftist enough for me".

  •  Same Was True for the Right Wing in the 1960's. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aspe4, Meteor Blades

    So rather than move to the middle as the Democrats have spent 40 years doing, the rightwing went out and built a new middle.

    But they didn't turn it around during one election or 10, even though they had huge money helping them. Which we don't.

    "Things" won't passively change "with" the Democratic Party. People are going to have to begin creating better Democrats to fill up the party with, or else it has to move far to the right or disappear as a major political party.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:17:38 AM PDT

  •  Interesting. The right wing thinks Walker won (10+ / 0-)

    because Obama is too far left (not because of the Millions of money that bought the election) and some on our side think Walker won because Obama is too far to the right? Soo..Obama is to blame one way or another?

  •  yep also: Outcome 2010 elections predicted in 2007 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aspe4, Nisi Prius

    Obama has continued the corporate take over of America

    I woke up at 3AM three weeks after the 2010 wipe out of dems

    I picked up a book and opened up to a random page

    This is a paraphrase

    Dems won house in 2006 but were passive. Impeachment off the table.

    Even if dems for the first time since Carter win the president, house and senate, the fact that they were passive in 2006, means that the corporations will control the future.

    "Democracy Inc., Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism" by the 90 year old dean of political philosophers. Published in 2008. My guess that the the text that I mentioned was written in 2007.

    I think that this book predicts our future. Obama is not standing up to the 1%.

  •  I understand what you are saying after giving it (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aspe4, ScottinSF, Nisi Prius, AdamSelene

    some thought. I guess you're basically talking Overton windows -

    Why should we be surprised if the Democratic Party itself has morphed into a center-right party when the righter and rightest of right takes over?

    I agree - we are inadvertently pushing their agenda through by our "compromises" and "moderation". By ignoring and marginalizing and diminishing the left ( and the lower, poor, and working classes) the Democrats are nothing but the enablers of the right and the Republicans.

    I wrote a diary the other day about how we are going to get a "bi-partisan" austerity screwing of the 99% either in the lame duck session or shortly thereafter which will irrevocably alter Social Security and Medicare. It's coming just as plain as the nose on your face.

    If any Democrats anywhere care about what is left of the Democratic Party after this takeover, they really need to mobilize and make it very clear in a Tea Party, Grover Norquist kind of way that any votes that weaken Medicare or Social Security as part of "Grand Bargain" which will be framed as "saving" them, is completely and entirely unacceptable and will result in those Democrats being severely punished by their electorate. I actually think there will then be absolutely no reason to remain a Democrat.

    The other issue is that since there is no party presenting and vocalizing the ideals of the Old Democrats - rights of labor, living wages, social justice, Rule of Law, etc. - those facets of a political discussion are being completely lost to the younger generation and they will become even MORE right and fascist/corporatist leaning. I read an amazing article the other day about how Pete Peterson is infiltrating the educational system by making his financial propaganda part of the curriculum!

    Now is the time for all men to come to the aid of their country. Part of that is taking off the blinders and acknowledging what the Democratic Party has become and what can we do about it?

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:23:57 AM PDT

    •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aspe4

      I agree completely with you.

    •  Liberals Don't Have a Political Party (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ScottinSF, quince, New Rule

      Conservatives, however, have two to choose from. Lucky bastards!!

      "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

      by Aspe4 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:29:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If the diarist is correct and the Democratic Party (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Smoh

        has been moving to the right for quite awhile now, how come there still hasn't appeared a "left" Party to compete on a national scale? If there are SO many people that stay home during elections because no one is pure liberal enough, why hasn't a new party formed?

        •  It may happen but it takes time (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aspe4

          People are afraid to do that because the republicans are ultra-scary.  However,   if Obama is defeated decisively in November (and I would not be surprised at all if that happens), it is likely that  either the democratic party will be forced to re-consider the shift to the right under Obama's leadership or a new left wing party may start emerging.

        •  Because of the boiling frogs analogy (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aspe4, Nisi Prius

          It has happened so slowly over such a long period of time we didn't understand that it was happening. And, we thought we actually HAD changed the climate in 2008.

          But Obama is a continuation of no, not, Bush, but CLINTON and third way, DLC, pro-business, pro-government Democratic centrists who throw us the occasional bone to keep us motivated to continue to be on their side with things like the Fair Pay Act.

          Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have said time and again that I will vote for every Democrat in this election and I pray for a Democratic landslide because of the alternative - but this is honestly the very very last time I will let myself continue to be played by Democrats. I say that as a parboiled frog getting ready to jump out of the pot.

          “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

          by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:40:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  pro-government is an error. I meant (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aspe4

            regulation gutting ( Like getting rid of Glass Steagall and passing things like the Commodities Futures Modernization Act)

            I am actually pro-government. I WANT regulations and oversight and things like Glass-Steagall.

            “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

            by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:51:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  No money in it. Let's face it, what drives our (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aspe4, New Rule

          political parties is highly paid professional operatives and the left side of the spectrum does not pay as well.

        •  Many Liberals are Still Deluded (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          quince, New Rule

          into thinking that they can influence the Democratic Party to move left so they feel it's their best shot versus starting a new party from scratch. The two parties are deeply entrenched. New parties have formed but the two major ones use their power to ridicule and suppress them. Many don't want to "waste" their vote on 3rd parties and get blamed for the candidate losing who they're supposed to be obligated to vote for. The oligarchs have us in a vise.

          "The problem with posting quotes off the Internet is you never know if they're genuine."--Gen. George Washington at the Battle of Gettysburg, February 30, 1908

          by Aspe4 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:07:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  GoGo - why hasn't a new party formed (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GoGoGoEverton

          The Dems know that if a new party is started from the left, and the GOP knows that if a new party is started from the right, that whichever is done first it will make that party a minority party for a decade or longer.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:13:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I'd quibble that "nothing but enablers" might (0+ / 0-)

      be overstating the sitatation.

      I'm sure there's SOMETHING else the Democratic party is doing  these days ....

      But, I must admit I'm having a bit of a problem coming up with words to say "what" exactly.

      "Holding the football for Charlie Brown," maybe?

  •  We lost because (8+ / 0-)

    the recall should not have happened in the first place. When 60% of the voters think it's only a good idea for reasons of official misconduct ( and so far Walker has been charged with any ) and a full 10% think it should never happen. Your odds of winning have been reduced to slim at best.

    Republican Family Values: Using the daughters from your first wife to convince everybody that your second wife is lying about your third wife.

    by jsfox on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:54:29 AM PDT

    •  Yep. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      doroma, VClib, TooFolkGR

      The recall never should have happened in the first place.

      "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

      by kestrel9000 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:58:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  June 6, 2013 RECALL WALKER 2.0 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        New Rule

        We need to do it better, keep reorganizing adaptively as needed, and start with a better alternative candidate than Walker.  (Assuming he survives John Doe investigation.)  If we would have had a Feingold commit to running, that might have helped. We should be trying to get someone credible committed to run by end of this year.  Having national Dems rowing with us for more than a few days would have helped.  DKos members did so much to help, but losing to Walker has to be seen as a wake up call to national Dems that they have to be focused on rebuilding the Dem brand from the local level on up, and it's not just about Obama winning...we need Dems winning in state and local elections or states will continue to ignore or work against whatever Obama is trying to do.  At this point, it feels like we're just the loose aggregate of diverse people who are not Republicans and mostly want Obama for 2nd term.  We won't win broad party consensus and loyalty by clinging to the negative definition of being "not Republicans."

        We need to pursue every legal method to disrupt, block or minimize harmful legislation and trumpet the immorality linked with these bad laws as well as better alternative language.

        We need to relentlessly target every ALEC associated representative in Assembly and Senate, and we have to point out what amoral big moneyed interests are behind given bills. how they harm the interests of state citizens and make our state a vassal state to the rich.

        Need OLB in every county, maybe in every school system.
        In every (former) union, we aim to get 90% support or better.  This won't be easy with people now afraid of what Republicans will be next hoping to do to finish off labor's legal abilities to act collectively and to punish all trying to do so.

        We need to get our message, our songbooks and songs into every school, into every workplace and build our 'choir'.  We need a strategy to counter the Republican strategy of establishing a deep alignment with churches.  They took 30-40 years building that, linking 'wealth' with God's Blessing for becoming fundamentalists who hate climate change, evolution and women's rights, unions, gays, minorities, so many things to hate.  We have to commit to retaking churches with the message of Jesus as Prince of peace, love, justice, and caring for the sick, orphaned, widowed, imprisoned, oppressed, earning treasure in Heaven instead of upon Earth. We'll need people to go to seminaries, and get ordained in these churches to lead them out of their darkness.

        We will need to target one good sized public company at a time for complete takeover, becoming major stockholders, start selecting CEOs who will promote a pro-human agenda.

        We need to infiltrate ALEC, Chambers of Commerce, etc. At least to get good intel and, perhaps influence policies.  

        Getting Citizens United undone may not happen quickly, so we have to get figure out how best to organize to beat the tsunamis of funding showering rightwingers.

        When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

        by antirove on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:00:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  So Dems moved to the right and people keep (0+ / 0-)

    voting not for third parties to their left but for Rs on their right. Maybe voters want the parties to move to the right then?

    •  If almost all of the media and almost all of the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      quince

      politicians are right of center to begin with, why is anyone surprised when the electorate as a whole begins to follow along?

      This is where all the compromise, pragmatism, and co-opting of right speaking points and philosophy takes us.

      And this movement can only accelerate. They pushed the snowball up the hill and now it is rolling and gaining momentum.

      “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

      by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:29:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If electorate is on the right and moving right (0+ / 0-)

        (and I don't actually think it's the case, it's more complex than that), then why should the Dems move left? Then they will be not reflecting the electorate any more.

        •  I'm just saying that the ultimate result (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          New Rule

          of Dems moving right and Republicans moving right and the media moving right will be an electorate that moves to the right. It's not an obscure thought.

          If we want to prevent that from happening, then we have to move our party to the left.

          “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

          by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:17:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If voters indeed wanted the party further (0+ / 0-)

            left these things could be happening:
            1. increased support for left-wing third parties
            2. increased support for more liberal candidates in Dem primaries

            I don't see evidence of either happening on a particularly large scale. You can argue that some people simply withdraw from electoral process and a move to the left would bring them back. It's possible but hard to say for sure.

  •  Nope (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    doroma, angry marmot, MBNYC

    Not the reason.

    •  You're right, it was The Blacks!! (0+ / 0-)

      I don't know why but I have a feeling they had something to do with this.

      The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing online commenters that they have anything to say.-- B.F.

      by lcj98 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:55:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes It Makes Perfect Sense (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MBNYC

    The election in Wisconsin didn't have anything to do with anything happening in Wisconsin.

    Too Folk For You. - Schmidting in the Punch Bowl - verb - Committing an unexpected and underhanded political act intended to "spoil the party."

    by TooFolkGR on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:17:43 AM PDT

  •  diary fail. badly. clap-trap. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MBNYC

    My best guess was a reflection that did not look back, an image lost in every mirror.

    by Zacapoet on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 08:26:30 AM PDT

  •  I thank the diarist. He pointed out the forest (0+ / 0-)

    that I've been missing by being pre-occupied by the trees.

    I think we may be past the tipping point into compromising ourselves out of existence.

    I blame myself among others. Liberals allowed it to happen. When Nancy Pelosi gave Bush a pass, she basically allowed a silent coup. No accountability, no Rule of Law, no looking backward, because we as a Party and as individuals didn't have the basic guts or spine to do it or to refuse to allow it to be sidelined.

    I should have been out in the streets and I should have been passing out petitions for her recall at the time. History called. We slept through the alarm.

    “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR

    by Phoebe Loosinhouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:02:35 AM PDT

  •  Disagree (0+ / 0-)

    Walker wins on the back of:

    1. Significant portion of the electorate believes recall is inappropriate vehicle for settling policy differences.

    2. Conservatives successfully framing public employees interests as being in direct opposition to interests of working class taxpayers.

    Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

    by EthrDemon on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:18:26 PM PDT

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site