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Mitt Romney was a strong supporter of the Vietnam War in the mid-1960s, going so far as to counter demonstrate at an anti-war demonstration.  Go here for a picture of young Mitt holding a picket sign against the demonstrators at an anti-Vietnam war demonstration.  Mitt Romney loved Vietnam draft he purposefully avoided  He's so clean cut.  

A picture taken on May 20, 1966, clearly shows a 19-year old Romney, whose father was at the time Michigan’s governor, standing with pro-war University president Wallace Sterling. To the young Romney, anti-war activists hoping to end the draft — and the senseless deaths of nearly 60,000 young American men — should not sit-in, they should sit down and shut up in preparation for potential deployment.

But as BuzzFeed reported Wednesday, Romney had no chance of being sent overseas because he was already a registered missionary, and apparently religious proselytization was more important than an able-body.

The photo at the time in the papers was titled "Governor's Son Pickets the Pickets."  That Mitt.  This is probably a year or so after holding a gay kid down and cutting his hair for being different.

Romney found ways to make sure it was the little people who killed and were killed in that war.  Yes, a chickenhawk.  He had multiple student deferments and then 2 years in France as a missionary kept him out.

"He didn't have the courage to go. He didn't feel it was important enough to him to serve his country at a time of war," said Jon Soltz, who served two Army tours in Iraq and is the chairman of the left-leaning veterans group VoteVets.org.

Critics note that the candidate is among three generations of Romneys — including his father, former Michigan Gov. George Romney, and five sons — who were of military age during armed conflicts but did not serve.

msnbc

But when running for President in 2007, he falsely claimed that he had wanted to serve in Vietnam:

But during his political career, Romney has flip-flopped on whether he actually wanted to serve in Vietnam. In 2007, Romney — a supporter of the war in Vietnam during the late-1960s — said he had wished he had served:

I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.”

snip

But the frustration he recalled in 2007 does not match a sentiment he shared as a Massachusetts Senate candidate in 1994, when he told The Boston Herald, “I was not planning on signing up for the military.”

It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft,” Romney told the newspaper.

But in seeking 4 deferments, Romney did in fact take actions to remove himself from the draft. In 1970, Romney eventually became eligible but by that point, the United States had begun reducing the number of troops in Vietnam ...  

Think Progress

Another of the literally 1000s of Romney lies that can be documented.  If you thought Nixon was dishonest, Romney has him beat.

He received his first deferment for "activity in study" in October 1965 while at Stanford.

As Soltz notes, the younger Romney was under no obligation to seek a college-related deferment.

snip

After his first year at Stanford, Romney qualified for 4-D deferment status as "a minister of religion or divinity student." It was a status he would hold from July 1966 until February 1969, a period he largely spent in France working as a Mormon missionary.

snip

His 31-month religious deferment expired in early 1969. And Romney received an academic studies deferment for much of the next two years. He became available for military service at the end of 1970 when his deferments ran out and he could have been drafted. But by that time, America was beginning to slice its troop levels, and Romney's relatively high lottery number — 300 out of 365 — was not called.

msnbc

This is a foul, dishonest man.  

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Comment Preferences

  •  that sounds about right (6+ / 0-)

    http://www.youtube.com/...

    romney is like the brother in the football shirt

    Bad is never good until worse happens

    by dark daze on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:40:49 AM PDT

  •  I watched Vietnam and Kerry linked constantly (27+ / 0-)

    during the '04 election, now, not a peep. I've watched Vietnam used in politics my whole life, now, nothing? Why isn't this being discussed the way it used to be?

    "But Brandine, you're supposed to be in Iraq stopping 911!"

    by leftyguitarist on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:41:40 AM PDT

  •  he may well be a pathological liar (15+ / 0-)

    http://wiki.answers.com/...

    just what we need a guy who is a sociopath and a pathological liar.

    What a combo.

    Bad is never good until worse happens

    by dark daze on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:43:46 AM PDT

  •  Neocon may as well be (21+ / 0-)

    defined as : guy who loves war but won't join the army.  I can't imagine anyone being suprised by this anymore.

    "Back off, back off, he's got his own dreams that won't come true!"

    by satanicpanic on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:45:20 AM PDT

    •  Beat me to it. n/t (8+ / 0-)

      Republican Family Values: Using the daughters from your first wife to convince everybody that your second wife is lying about your third wife.

      by jsfox on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:48:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Plenty of neoliberals supporting the current wars. (0+ / 0-)

      And plenty of them didn't serve either.  

      "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:55:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ? n/t (3+ / 0-)

        "Back off, back off, he's got his own dreams that won't come true!"

        by satanicpanic on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:19:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Just FYI, "neoliberal" != "liberal." (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          satanicpanic

          In political science, the term neoliberal refers to someone who embraces unfettered freedom of the marketplace. More generally, it can refer to dogmatic capitalists of all stripes - bankers, industrialists and those of the moneyed elite that place profit over social good or individual human welfare.

          This term is often misunderstood in colloquial speech. In this sense, I put in the same category as "corporatism" - a word which does not mean "rule by corporations," as many people seem to think, but instead refers to the organization of society into a hierarchy in service to an autocrat or controlling party.

          ---

      •  Let's keep it on Mitt (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Zinman, satanicpanic, TomP, BigAlinWashSt

        OK? My brother served in VietNam and died there. Mitt "longed" to be in VietNam, he was pro-war, he protested people who were trying to shut it down.

        He needs to put his money where his mouth is for once in his miserable, privileged experience. Let him explain why he wants war in Iran.

        Let him explain why his sons never served anything but the money God!

        In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

        by vcmvo2 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:51:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree about Mitt. I'm a vet, Vietnam era (0+ / 0-)

          because I was underwater in a sub.  I just want consistency when it comes to who supports war and who didn't serve.  It's not just republicans.

          "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

          by BigAlinWashSt on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:46:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No it never has been! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BigAlinWashSt

            LBJ screwed up VietNam royally. It was his Tet offensive. He did many great things as President but he was a war mongering idiot.

            Still Mitt wants the old nuclear button. I want a better explanation from him of why he longed to be in VietNam but didn't enlist. He is still saber rattling.

            One can support war for the wrong reasons. My father fought honorably in WWII in North Africa and Italy. His focus was Nazis and fascism - but my Dad did not pretend a love of all things war. He supported Vietnam and the Domino theory until it became apparent to him that this was not the same thing at all.

            People can differ on why we go to war but they should at least make sense. Mitt "counter-protested" a despicable war. He should explain that. He wants the Commander in Chief responsibility. Let's actually get his theory of why saber rattling in the Mid East serves any other god damn purpose than empire building.

            After 9/11 this country accepted war in the GWOT - it made me sick but I could see getting Al-Quaeda. But as a criminal exercise not as an excuse for endless war. Iraq was wrong, I knew it then and why did I? Because of VietNam. So let's get Mitt to really explain all his inconsistencies. My brother enlisted. Mitt could have too!

            In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

            by vcmvo2 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 03:28:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good comment and sorry about your brother man. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vcmvo2

              My sister lost her husband over there and I had a number of friends who came back but in bad shape.  
              Peace to you.

              "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

              by BigAlinWashSt on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 04:16:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BigAlinWashSt

                I'm glad for the ones that made it back but losing someone in that War was really traumatic. I have a son who is almost 18 now and he and I often talk about this.

                He has agreed not to enlist but he had some teenage moments there where he thought the idea was "cool". I got him to work for all kinds of liberal causes instead.

                He wants to work in public service- I really feel for those who came back because they all had to deal with the trauma and little support. I think that's changing.

                I'm sorry for your sister and your loss as well. The best thing we can do is keep it fresh in people's minds as what it really was.

                Peace to you also.

                In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

                by vcmvo2 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 07:47:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Gee, Didn't Oliver Wendell Holmes say it for us? (11+ / 0-)

    "Three generations of cowards are enough."

    Or he would have if he had seen this ...

    Am I right, or am I right? - The Singing Detective

    by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:53:58 AM PDT

  •  Yeah. It's one thing to be so much in favor of a (12+ / 0-)

    war that you publicly demonstrate for it but it is quite something else to show enthusiastic support for a war and then take all possible actions to avoid participating in it.  Should he have been against the war and taken the actions he took to avoid participating in the war, I could forgive him because his actions would have been morally consistent.

    I'm afraid he's just another rich kid playboy with a fundamentalist, religious veneer.

    Obama and anyone else who cares needs to repeat this simple story over and over and over and over and over and over until, when people simply hear his name, they think "rich kid draft dodger".

    One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

    by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 09:55:07 AM PDT

    •  "playboy"? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Amber6541
      "Not the language I would have used..."

      Eliminate the Bush tax cuts Eliminate Afghan and Iraq wars Do these things first before considering any cuts

      by kck on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:01:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  LOL. ;-). "...with a fundamentalist, religious (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, kck

        veneer."  

        Of course, the word "playboy" has a sort of Hefneresque connotation but could be used to denote someone who, for example, travels around France using his father's and his church's money to spread religious beliefs and live the good life.

        One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

        by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:35:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Al gore did the opposite. (9+ / 0-)

      His father the senator took up the anti-war position, and Al Gore volunteered, in order to show that his father's position wasn't one of cowardice. Now there is a real man.)

    •  I was an active opponent... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mindara, Saint Jimmy, vcmvo2, Amber6541, TomP

      ... of the Vietnam war and protested against it from start to finish.  I also worked tirelessly to not be drafted, I had student deferments for 3 years,  then I was married during the period in which married men were deferred.  When that deferment lapsed I was a father – deferred status. Then as a teacher I had an occupational deferment.
      I stopped my active support of the anti war movement when the demonizing of the troops became a tactic against the war.  It was a war that most of those who served had no choice (except going to Canada or jail) and was disgusting that those that served became the taegets of the opposition – they weren't the architects of the war and had no say in it's conduct .
      Vietnam was a war in which the sons of poor Americans were sent to die and kill the sons of poor Vietnamese men. The sons of rich American men cheered on the slaughter from their privileged perch of their economic elite status.
       Mittens did, however, suffer in the wilds and dangers of France preaching his bullshit religious beliefs.
      Mittens is slime.

      "if you don't make peaceful revolution possible, you make violent revolution inevitable." ….JFK. .......{- 8.25 / -5.64}

      by carver on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:52:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I understand. Fortunately, I was too young (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, carver

        to be drafted.  My dad, a small town doctor and WWII veteran, was openly against the Vietnam war.  That took courage in a town of 7,000 people in south Texas.

        He was bright enough to see that the Vietnam war was a mistake.  He also saw boys he had taken care of since childhood come home in body bags.  He told me that, should the war drag on long enough for me to be drafted, he would send me to Canada.  About the time the war began to seriously wind down (the early '70s), I understood enough about it and about foreign affairs to know it was a mistake.  

        He wouldn't have had to send me to Canada.  I would have gone on my own.

        One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

        by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:12:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  i would only consider that serving (14+ / 0-)

    if they were also being shot at by strangers in the middle of a desert or jungle.  that statement by romney is a huge FAIL.

    i know people are tired of it, but it still is relevant and should be paraded out for all to see.  my husband was in vietnam and he still has flashbacks.  he's still searching for his best buddy who took off to save my hubby and ended up in a firefight.  as far as we can tell, no american survived. the records however are still sealed so we don't really know what happened.  it's frustrating and to hear this bs out of romney is infuriating!

    •  Considering who and what the Romney's are ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP
      i would only consider that serving if they were also being shot at by strangers in the middle of a desert or jungle.
      Had they come to my old neighborhood then, they might might've had that opportunity.

      ---

  •  'I ain't no senator's son, yeah'...apologies to (6+ / 0-)

    Creedence Clearwater.

    •  You mean "I ain't no governor's son" (7+ / 0-)

      You can bash Bush for getting a cushy assignment in the champagne division of TANG but at least he served. True he was AWOL and never completed the terms of his service but he didn't spend the war in a French chateau at a time when many other (read less privileged) Mormon boys still had to serve and were not granted a religious exemption. I still don't understand why he couldn't have served as a chaplain or something. Al Gore wrote for Stars and Stripes (being an actual Senator's son) but he was in Vietnam, not defending the air space of Texas from a non-existent threat.

  •  The Etch-A-Sketch Willard is over 40 years old (9+ / 0-)

    Romney's positions on Vietnam changed as those of both his parents did. Indeed, while at Stanford, George Romney was for the war...that is until he made that "brainwashed" comment. Likewise, by 1970 when Lenore Romney ran for US Senate in Michigan, Willard Romney had morphed into a anti-war Republican.

    Even back then, he had no core values and was willing to change his views for political expediency.

    •  Most people including me were for the war in 1966 (4+ / 0-)

      In 1966 we were "winning" at least that's what they told us and it would have made no sense to have pulled out when everything was all but won, according to what they were telling us.  We were all raised on the specter that we had to stop international Communism and if we didn't it would be another Munich and if we didn't stop them in Nam they would take Singapore and then the Philippines and then Japan and Australia and then Hawaii so we had to stop the Commies there blah blah blah.  Public attitudes, mine included, changed with the Tet offensive in early 1968.  I remember the co-owner of the store I worked in, a WW II Pacific vet and a horse racing fan, who had been very pro-war, making the comment during the height of Tet that the Viet Cong had taken the only spot in Vietnam worth fighting for - the Saigon racetrack.  

      Romney and I would have both been in the same first lottery drawing in December of 1970.  Anyone drawing 300 would have been celebrating.  I drew 37 and it was like someone had kicked me in the solar pelix.  It was a strange scene - some guys were jumping wild with joy and others, myself included, were in a daze.  But nothing was stopping him from enlisting if he still loved the war, although from what the diarist says, maybe by that time he didn't.

      "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

      by Navy Vet Terp on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:10:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ah, The Domino Theory. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vcmvo2, Navy Vet Terp, Saint Jimmy

        It strikes me in your post, Navy Vet Terp, that there are several parallels to the way we were sold our recent wars- the lie that we were winning, that we were there to fight terrorism (subbed for communism). And it took a while for public sentiment to change.

        The most striking difference is I watched the Viet Nam "Conflict" over my roast beef hash in my kitchen or living room. I saw people getting killed and wounded. And I saw photos and film of the bags and caskets returning to US soil.
        This time, we were given limited media access and the body count was suppressed, at least the visual impact of it was. People were saying at the time that it would be unpatriotic and disrespectful to the fallen to show their return. Bull-f'n-shit! What better way to honor their sacrifice than to stand and face it, along with all the brothers and sisters in arms that made that same, last irreversible gesture?
        We owe them that much. Hiding them as if ashamed for the purpose of avoiding negative public sentiment was a stark sign of cowardice for those who made that call.

        Lastly, if you don't mind my saying, thanks for your service and "welcome home." I don't mean to be trite or pseudo-patriotic. I honestly appreciate your service in Viet Nam. If I were older than 14 before the war was ending, I would have been doing my part as a nation-loving American to bring you home sooner or to have prevented you're having to go in the first place.
        But I was just a kid eating his roast beef hash and watching the insanity in black and white.

        I believe in democracy, civil liberties, and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal, and I’m proud of it. - Paul Krugman

        by Gentle Giant on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:58:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was over but never in Nam (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gentle Giant

          I flew on P-3 reconassaince flights from the Philippines.  But thanks for the nice words.

          "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

          by Navy Vet Terp on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:20:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  :-). Yep. Well put. (0+ / 0-)

          One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

          by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:40:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Romney is only for one thing (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, NM Ray, Navy Vet Terp, Saint Jimmy

        and that is is Romney. His self-regard borders on the delusional.

        My brother died in the Tet offensive in 1968. Prior to that I supported the War because I was 12 and that's what you did.

        After 1968 I began to see more clearly what a bunch of baloney it was.

        But at least we had media reporting the truth then. If you have proper information at least you can judge for yourself. Mitt had access to the same info I did, he chose to ignore it or just lie about what he thought.

        Cowards choose lies over truth every time because it's convenient to be comfortable.

        In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

        by vcmvo2 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:14:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Why do we have such a hard time dealing (9+ / 0-)

    with liars?  Why do we bend over backwards to excuse or explain?
    I think it's because the lie is essentially a sign of disrespect.  That is, the liar asserts with his lie that the person he's lying to is not worthy of the truth.  So, the lie is an insult and the insult is what the victim is at a loss as to how to react.
    It's this element of surprise which lets the liar get off. We are stupefied by the audacity of an unwarranted assault. We ask ourselves how we might have merited such behavior.  That a human being has no respect for his own kind is almost inconceivable. After all, the brute beasts don't aim to destroy their own kind.
    It's embarrassing to think that humans are less honorable than the beasts. We do not want to be associated with such people.  So, we give them a pass.
    That's a mistake.

    People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

    by hannah on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:10:11 AM PDT

  •  Cannot be said enough: (9+ / 0-)
    This is a foul, dishonest man
    Beneath his clean cut and pseudo religious veneer lies the soul of Faust.

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:19:01 AM PDT

  •  Wow! Another ChickenHawk RepubliKlan... (4+ / 0-)

    Who would have thunk it?

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Republican Party.

    by OnlyWords on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:28:18 AM PDT

  •  Of course he did! (5+ / 0-)
    Romney Supported Vietnam War, Demonstrated Against Demonstrators, and then Avoided Draft
    ....He had a whole country of French Men to convert for Space Jeebus, For Pete's Sake!

    Plastic People, Oh Baby Now, Yer sucha Draaaag

    by jds1978 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:44:46 AM PDT

  •  It takes a special kind of scumbag (11+ / 0-)

    to advocate for a war that you're not willing to fight in yourself.

  •  he is such a creep...eom (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skillet, TomP, Saint Jimmy, vcmvo2

    "...Can't do nothing, girl, without somebody bugging/ I used to think that it was me/ But then I learned it wasn't." --Salt NPepa None of Your Business

    by chicating on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 10:50:30 AM PDT

  •  "seeking...deferments" kind of goes along with... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Saint Jimmy

    ...seeking Republican presidential & vice presidential offices.

    Eliminate the Bush tax cuts Eliminate Afghan and Iraq wars Do these things first before considering any cuts

    by kck on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:03:15 AM PDT

  •  Hasn't this been reported on before? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Gentle Giant

    But it's worth repeating.

    He's Dan Quayle with a nicer wife.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:04:15 AM PDT

  •  Hey, it could have been worse. (4+ / 0-)

    He coulda shown up at the induction center with his (magic) underwear full of a load of shit....

    "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State ..."- Vermont Constitution Chapter 1, Article 16

    by kestrel9000 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:05:18 AM PDT

  •  Desiderius Erasmus (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, Saint Jimmy, TomP

    "War is delightful to those who have no experience in it".

    White-collar conservatives flashing down the street, pointing their plastic finger at me..

    by BOHICA on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:21:03 AM PDT

  •  Again Romney has different standards for us. (4+ / 0-)
  •  Five and a half years, Alan! (0+ / 0-)

    At least we won't have to listen to THAT claptrap.

  •  Romney's a wanna-be human and a wanna-be Rambo (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, vcmvo2

    I hope Lawrence O'donnell pwns him over his "I wish I was in Vietnam" remark.

    Tucker Carlson, who's a nobody. Used to work for us over here. We fired him cause he suck. - Charles Barkley

    by Corneliusmingus on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:52:14 AM PDT

  •  sounds about right for a GOP candidate (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    anyway, Viet Nam was so long ago ... can't we just put this behind us and move on?  ... the past no longer matters ...

    today is a lousy day.

    An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

    by mightymouse on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 11:54:13 AM PDT

  •  If we had that "Liberal Media" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    Television "News" watchers would be subject to pundits discussing this "story" about three days before the election.

    Just enough time to let it sink in.

    When The US tries to export our form of "democracy" and they laugh and say "no thanks" - Something's wrong

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:22:22 PM PDT

  •  If Willard had gone to Veitnam (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Corneliusmingus, TomP

    What are the odds he would have been fragged?

    When The US tries to export our form of "democracy" and they laugh and say "no thanks" - Something's wrong

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:26:17 PM PDT

  •  Actually, as I wrote here a week ago... (4+ / 0-)

    ...Romney actually has had three stances on Vietnam.

    Not only did he participate in a counter-protest, he said in May 1970 (six months after he got his high lottery number) that going into Vietnam had been a "blunder":

    His 1970 remarks about Vietnam were delivered in the wake of the national uproar over the six shooting deaths during protests at Kent State University May 4 and Jackson State College May 14. Those protests were part of nationwide opposition that flared up on campuses and elsewhere against President Richard Nixon's invasion of Cambodia in late April. Romney's characterization of Vietnam as a blunder but apparent support for the Cambodian invasion hardly put him in the antiwar camp.

    He was by then within a year of finishing his degree at Brigham Young University. Like other college students at the time, he had a student deferment from the draft, one of the key motivating aspects of the war. But by May 1970, he was in no danger of being drafted. In the national draft lottery, his March 12 birthdate had been paired with #300. He and others with that number were far down the list of men likely to be conscripted into the military. In fact, the highest number ever reached was #215. By then, U.S. combat troops had all been withdrawn from Southeast Asia.

    Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

    by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:36:46 PM PDT

  •  I don't understand how short=term mission work (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Saint Jimmy, TomP

    gets someone out of the draft, for one, and I don't understand why Mitt didn't put off his mission work until he served a tour.  It's not like the mission had to be done as a young man, since it waited until after he graduated.  

    Romney is campaigning to be President SuperBain; his cure is to cut wages, end pensions, let companies go bankrupt, and let the assets of production go dark or be sold to China. He really thinks thats the best of all possible Americas.

    by Inland on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:37:10 PM PDT

  •  Yes he is foul and dishonest (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, Saint Jimmy, TomP

    he "longed" to be in Vietnam? Right, Mitt - My brother died at 19 years old in Vietnam.

    He served his country but I doubt very much Philip "longed" to be in Vietnam.

    I loathe and despise people like Mitt. He should have served or he should have protested the War, but he should never ever have been a pro-war, loudmouth who got in the way of people trying to end that vile senseless war.

    I am sure that he has been to the Wall, right Mitt? Or was he one of the ones that tried to prevent its building and its location. I'd be interested to know that info.

    In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

    by vcmvo2 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 12:45:50 PM PDT

  •  A Christian Missionary Protesting FOR War??? (4+ / 0-)

    Man that's effed up.

    WWJD?

  •  In my view, this is wrongheaded (0+ / 0-)

    Romney is not claiming any special military knowledge or experience. If you read what he says on his web site (and we should all do that, by the way: know the enemy), when he speaks of the military, it is all boilerplate praise of its greatness, wimpy plans that could be made by any bean counter, and criticisms of Obama. So harping on the fact that he had student deferments and the very common Mormon deferment simply isn't honest.

    If there had been no war, he still would have gone to college and he still would have done the missionary thing. College deferments were automatic if you were in college, and while it's true that some Mormons were denied deferments, that was mostly in Utah, because such a low percentage of draft-age Utahans were serving that it became an embarrassment to that pro-war state. For Mormons living in California or Michigan, it was basically automatic. So when he says he didn't do anything to get out of the draft, it's basically the truth. Sure, he could have enlisted, but he didn't. Big deal. If he were claiming some kind of specific military knowledge, perhaps that would be something we could point at. But lots of people didn't enlist to fight in the Vietnam War.

    Also, we've already gone there and it didn't work: look at Cheney and Rumsfeld, and to a lesser extent GW Bush. A more war-hungry bunch of chicken-hawks hasn't been seen in some time. And yet, in spite of that, Bush was re-elected. To this day, the military still backs the GOP.

    No, this just isn't a worthwhile avenue to attack Romney on. It's a distraction and (IMHO) it makes us look petty, like swift-boat wannabes.

    Just my opinion.

    •  hypocrisy is always a worthwhile (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Saint Jimmy, TomP

      attack. Mitt is rattling sabers for war with Iran. He has John Bolton advising him.

      I think it's all of a piece his pro-war VietNam stance and now his Middle East interference.

      Just you watch him do it too. He is a liar. We think Nixon lied? Bush? He surrounds himself with the same advisors.

      In our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until, in our own despair, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God ~RFK

      by vcmvo2 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:26:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  To me, this is a clear cut case of hypocrisy that (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP

      HAS to be mentioned over and over.  Democrats must attack and attack viciously - hypocritical rich boy draft dodger (not a lie - that's what he is.), economic parasite who has added little to no value to the economy, and on and on and on.

      Good grief.  Grow balls and attack the son of a bitch.  The FACTS are on YOUR side.

      One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

      by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 01:43:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The problem is (0+ / 0-)

        that I'm Romney's age. I was around back then. I vacillated in my support for the war. At one point I was determined to enlist, but in the end I got a doctor's letter and was rejected for the draft. My brother did enlist. My mind was changed by taking a class in international law and realizing that we had lied and broken treaties to prevent an election in Vietnam that would have united the country, but under Ho (i.e., the communists would have won the election). I decided long ago never to criticize my peers for how they handled it, whether they enlisted, dodged the draft, got drafted, marched for or against the war, deserted, whatever. The main thing is that it was stupid and now it's over.

        •  I don't see how your story is equivalent to (0+ / 0-)

          Romney's story, at all.  You were not sure whether the war was worth fighting.  As a result, you hesitated, changed your mind, and then got a medical deferment.  When you determined that the war was worth fighting, you decided to enlist.  You did NOT protest for the war and then take action to avoid serving or simply not enlist.  Assuming your medical deferment was accurate, you were not the least bit hypocritical and your actions are morally defensible.  

          Many generations in many countries have faced situations that forced people to make stark, hard choices.  Those who took decisive action with good intentions, regardless of whether history proved them right or wrong, were able to live with themselves.  

          Those who professed a position but took action not consistent with their protestations simply to stay safe or protect their possessions, probably didn't sleep very well.... unless they lacked a conscience.

          One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

          by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:17:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not exactly (0+ / 0-)

            I didn't enlist, I was rejected by the draft. My younger brother enlisted in the Marines. I started out confused but leaning in favor and ended up 100% opposed to the war. What Romney did was no different in my view from what every boy I knew back then did. We all just made what we thought was the least worse choice for us out of a situation that didn't make any damn sense. A lot of this came from people's families: in Romney's case, his dad and mom who were Republican politicians and therefore leaning in favor of the war. In my brother's and my case, it was our dad who was a retired Marine officer (but who advised me not to enlist because he couldn't figure out what the hell we were doing over there, he said).

            More importantly, though, Cheney and Rumsfeld were much better examples of hypocrisy. They had not served, yet were fierce neoconservative hawks. And we called them on it, loudly and repeatedly, and it had zero effect: the Bush wars stumbled on spreading death and destruction, and W was re-elected!

            •  True to some extent but you were not openly (0+ / 0-)

              hypocritical.  He was.  THAT is the difference.  I guess I just can't let him have a free pass on this one.  What he did demonstrates, among other actions he's taken, that he has no depth, no moral fiber, no real sense of community, caring, and empathy, no heart.

              I'm sure Obama will not directly attack him for his hypocritical actions and stances during the Vietnam war but I hope that other democrats, liberals, leftists, and libertarians tell the story publicly and in the press many times.  I would like to hear him get "tangled up in his underwear" trying to justify his actions.

              One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

              by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 05:16:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  He says more into microphones (0+ / 0-)

      And the things he says can change this family's life in an instant and forever if he is in charge.  We need to threaten Iran, Pakistan is an ally?  Pakistan is someone we hope to encourage to be as much of an ally as possible but Pakistan is NOT across the board our ally and it is essential that our President get reality based about that.

      On one hand I've of got a country that seems to have the potential to be volatile seeking their own nuclear weapons and on the other I have one that IS volatile and has its own nuclear weapons, which one of those poses the most risk?  And in that light Romney is dangerous IMO, dangerous as hell as well as out of his nugget crackers.

  •  turn over any rock, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Saint Jimmy

    and underneath it you'll find a "fighten" republican, who somehow managed to not serve in the nation's military, during a time of war. or conveniently leaped over 500 others, to get a rare slot in their state's national guard. dick cheney had "better things to do".

    today, we have the members of the "101st keyboard division", republicans/conservatives who strongly supported this country's invasions of/continued occupations of both afghanistan & iraq, but felt they better served their country by staying home, and typing kick ass blogs. they'll be running for office in the not too distant future.

    nixon was a scumbag, but he at least volunteered for service during wwII, as did reagan.

    •  "101st Keyboard", eh? I've heard of those guys. (0+ / 0-)

      Frightening.... and funny.  :-)  God help anyone who stands between them and the nearest excuse for not fighting.  

      To me, they would be a whole lot more respectable, should they just come out and say "Fuck it.  I'm scared.  I don't like to fight and I don't want to give my life for a questionable or unworthy cause".

      Nixon was amoral and Reagan was mostly clueless but you have to respect their service during a war that we had to fight.

      One in four people in the United States suffers from chronic anxiety, a mood disorder, or depression—which seems to me to be a normal reaction to our march toward collective suicide. Welcome to the asylum. ~ Chris Hedges

      by Saint Jimmy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 02:34:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Romney is a giant scumbag! (0+ / 0-)

    President Obama may have never served in the military, but he doesn't leave my family high and dry when people don't like his methods and tactics.  He owns his tactics.  He got bin Laden.  He has crippled Al Qaeda horrifically.  And I can have this horrible huge big mouth about issues and my husband is judged by HIS service.  He will be promoted to W5 on Friday!!!!!  And he has earned every bit of it while currently serving a President who made certain that nobody was going to be left behind in Pakistan that night and they had what they would need if they had to fight their way back out.  I can't say I've liked any of the last ten or eleven years but there is doable and there is undoable.  This President never left me so high and dry in all of this that I could barely bring myself to get out of bed in the mornings some mornings.  The last one did, and Romney rubber stamped most if not all of that CIC's decisions.  Didn't he also rubber stamp not caring about bin Laden anymore in favor of caring about our continuing to occupy a country that didn't do anything to us?

  •  ANOTHER Romney flip-flop... (0+ / 0-)

    ...this time, it's on whether or not avoiding the Vietnam War draft was the right thing for him to do.

    Personally, since Romney legally avoided the draft through deferments, I don't have a problem with him avoiding the draft per se. I do have a problem with him flip-flopping on whether or not he thought avoiding the draft was the right thing to do. Mitt Romney is the most dishonest presidential candidate that I've ever seen.

    This is coming from a guy who couldn't enlist in our Armed Forces because of Asperger's syndrome, which, contrary to what I've seen on other websites, Mitt Romney does NOT have.

    "Tonight does not mark the end of our vigilance, but the beginning" -Lori Compas, 6/5/2012

    by DownstateDemocrat on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:56:50 PM PDT

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