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Are you trying to figure out whether Michele Bachmann really believes the crazy conspiracy cr*p and pseudo-religious bigotry she spouts? If so, you probably want to read a piece in this week's New Yorker magazine about longtime Bachmann ally Bryan Fischer.

Fischer's claimed that homosexuals are "more prone to domestic violence than straight people." He routinely denies that "that H.I.V. causes AIDS." He believes (as do millions of conservative evangelicals) that the Mormon religion is not a Christian religion.

And then there's Fischer's paranoid right wing conspiracy theory stuff:

(Fischer) has spread doubts about the authenticity of Obama’s American birth certificate and Christian faith, and has claimed that the President’s aim is to “destroy capitalism.” Obama, he has said, “despises the Constitution” and “nurtures a hatred for the white man.” Fischer recently accused the Administration’s Department of Homeland Security of buying so much ammunition that it was causing a shortage. His source on this, he said, was a law-enforcement officer. “Who are they going to turn that ammunition on?” he asked his listeners. “They’re going to turn it on us!”
That's all part Bryan Fischer's paranoid political style, broadcast to the nation. And below there's a link to a 2011 video of Fischer interviewing Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann: she says it's "an honor" to be on his program. And why shouldn't she? Fischer's gospel of craziness and hatred echoes Bachmann's own.

What does it matter that two wingnuts are echoing and complimenting each other's right wing hate and lunacy? It's disturbing to many Christian all over America that Bachmann and Fischer have been trying to identify their faith and the dictates of the Bible with nuthouse conspiracy theories and ultraright politics. But why should you worry about them if "not really into that stuff?"

Well--Bachmann and Fischer wouldn't matter much if they weren't influential. But they are influential, and their influence is conditioning political outcomes in the United States. (The hard part is getting liberals and progressives to acknowledge and act on the real degree of their impact on elections and lawmaking.)

Fischer, for example. You won't like to hear this, but the probability is that ultra right wing nut Bryan Fischer is now more influential in American politics than you or I will ever be.

The American Family Association’s radio network comprises two hundred stations in thirty-five states, and Fischer’s program reaches more than a million listeners a day. That’s a fraction of Rush Limbaugh’s audience, but as large as that of Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews, on MSNBC. Until recently, Fischer’s rising popularity escaped notice in the mainstream media, in part because his show is broadcast primarily on stations in the Southeast and the Midwest, including small cities such as Tullahoma, Tennessee, and Piggott, Arkansas. But his program is part of a parallel media universe that provides news and commentary, on everything from science to American history, from a perspective that is far to the right of Fox News.
That's the important part, that part in bold about the existence of "a parallel media universe far to the right of Fox." That part, is actually far more important than Bryan Fischer or Michele Bachmann (even though the personal political influence of these two extremist kooks dwarfs that of most sane elected officials.)

I've been writing and publishing about the "parallel media universe" of conservative evangelical broadcasting since 2003, but I still can't get my liberal and progressive allies to listen to it regularly. I'm not asking them to listen to the pre-recorded sermons; I'm asking them to listen to the political and current affairs broadcasting that goes out on the radio. That's the stuff that instructs conservative Christian audiences on how to vote in local and national elections; which politicians and policies to support and which to fear and loathe.

You'll learn a lot about why the GOP got so crazy over the past ten years or so, if you listen to that. (That's how I first learned about Michele Bachmann; listening to her appear on local evangelical radio as a local school board candidate back in the year 2000.)

How big is this "parallel media universe," run by national conservative evangelical leadership?

More than a quarter of American voters identify themselves as evangelicals, and, according to the National Religious Broadcasters association, ninety-six per cent of them tune in to some form of Christian media each month. This constituency has, arguably, become the most reliable bloc in the Republican Party. Ralph Reed, the former executive director of the Christian Coalition, who now heads the Faith and Freedom Coalition, reports that more than half of the voters in the current Republican primaries have identified themselves as evangelicals. Michael Lindsay, an expert on evangelical politics and the president of Gordon College, outside Boston, says, “No Republican has captured the White House without evangelical votes since Watergate. They’re the most organized constituency in the Republican Party.”
Actually, they're more than that. They're not really "in" the Republican Party; in the sense that they respond to the direction of Republican elected officials and Republican leadership organizations. They're actually a political party in and of themselves, with their own leadership--which functions outside official Republican leadership circles. They simply us the Republican brand to further their own political agenda. (They have to, because if they proceeded under their own party brand, they couldn't be nearly as powerful as they are.)

But if you read what I write, you've heard me point that out about a thousand times already. I don't expect most of you to believe now, but this New Yorker piece is a sign that professional political media are beginning to stumble into "this reality," like it or not.

You should stumble into it, too. Read the whole article if you want to find out why the Republican Party is "the way it is, now," if you want to understand the deep connection between the tea party movement and the religious right, if you want to know why the GOP is consenting to send nuts to your state legislature, if you want to know how and why Obama might lose this fall.

Focus on the statements about the movement that Fischer belongs to. Don't focus on the statements about Fischer himself. He's not "the leader," he's just "one influential representative" of a vastly more powerful party (the same goes for Bachmann.) The focus on Fischer is actually the flaw in this article; it's like doing minute focus of a single tumor when the issue is "cancer."

The conservative evangelical "party" that Fischer and Bachmann belong to is not a transient phenomenon. The "parallel media universe" that party has created is not a transient phenomenon. (They're not even recent developments, although it's clear from reading this article that the best-informed journalists in America are just getting around to discovering them.) The parallel media universe and the hierarchy that runs it--are institutional. They will withstand the ebb and flo of particular elections and administrations in the same way that the Democratic and Republican parties do.

They will be a part of your life for the rest of your life--and liberals and progressives haven't even begun to develop an effective strategy for dealing with them.

UPDATE: Most constructive comment out the twenty or so that I've received so far:

I think what we need is oppo research on these people.
Yes; oppo research on the leaders of the conservative evangelical movement--a devotion to that, in the same way that progressives and liberals are devoted to gathering oppo research on Republican political candidates. (No, not with any special focus on whether some of them are or were gay or not.) Oppo research with a focus on scandalous financial practices, a focus on longstanding political relationships to candidates and parties, a focus on identifying protege politicians, a focus on individual efforts to try and conflate Christianity with nuthouse rightwing conspiracy theory. You can find out whether they're gay or not, too; it's relevant because of their chronic homophobia...)
...but the oppo research on public, unelected figures who are positioned to exert so much influence on US national and local politics--so, so important to discrediting this party's vast voter influence.

LINK: to the New Yorker piece on Fischer...

LINK: to a video Bachmann being interviewed by Fischer.

Originally posted to Bill Prendergast on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:25 AM PDT.

Also republished by Street Prophets .

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (164+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yellow Canary, chuck412, klompendanser, terrypinder, PBen, CherryTheTart, sow hat, hoolia, Mortifyd, Red Bean, spacecadet1, uffdalib, TiaRachel, DBunn, hannah, megisi, Missys Brother, Haf2Read, bythesea, Eddie L, Youffraita, kerflooey, ipsos, Margd, Timari, sostos, zerelda, Remembering Jello, Dave in Northridge, cany, freeport beach PA, MartyA, JVolvo, Anthony Page aka SecondComing, mayim, Box of Rain, UncleCharlie, commonmass, kathny, chimpy, NYC Sophia, BluejayRN, ParkRanger, rja, jfromga, elwior, statsone, J V Calin, kamarvt, pat bunny, fallina7, tampaedski, bleeding heart, agnostic, katrinka, devtob, johanus, BachFan, Unit Zero, prettygirlxoxoxo, Chinton, ExStr8, Alice Venturi, sb, celdd, Shotput8, cybersaur, JDWolverton, Orinoco, TheOrchid, Bernie68, bronxcharlie, wasatch, LillithMc, legendmn, Prof Haley, milkbone, NM Ray, GMFORD, StateofEuphoria, cwsmoke, JBL55, dragonlady, cosette, bwintx, UniC, StrayCat, DanC, buckstop, DMLjohn, trumpeter, NonnyO, Tinfoil Hat, Emerson, zedaker, Ice Blue, rgjdmls, terabytes, blueoasis, Simple, high uintas, dmhlt 66, Amber6541, Neon Vincent, NMRed, shesaid, rmonroe, MKinTN, Dobber, banjolele, Lorinda Pike, Kitsap River, jacey, kimoconnor, slowbutsure, SteelerGrrl, TracieLynn, DeminNewJ, Rogneid, ER Doc, GenXBadger, kbman, Beetwasher, Sylv, AnnetteK, gizmo59, ruleoflaw, glorificus, boatwright, Wreck Smurfy, fumie, Laughing Vergil, semiAdult, skohayes, tommyfocus2003, EdSF, Smoh, uciguy30, reflectionsv37, Ageing Hippie, SD Goat, revbludge, bnasley, Hushes, Prospect Park, Sassy, rage, doinaheckuvanutjob, drainflake77, Says Who, Nada Lemming, mamamedusa, Horace Boothroyd III, Brian76239, anodnhajo, countwebb, Larsstephens, 207wickedgood, linkage, turn blue, Alumbrados, Hastur, opinionated, Just Bob

    Co-author of the first political biography of Michele Bachmann: Michele Bachmann's America

    by Bill Prendergast on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:25:10 AM PDT

  •  ayup. (36+ / 0-)

    there isn't more I can add. Been sayin' the same things for years now too.

    I'm struck by how the meanest, cruelest, nastiest people brag about how they live in a Christian nation. It's rather telling.

    by terrypinder on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:39:45 AM PDT

  •  Question for Bill... (29+ / 0-) the people who keep voting Michelle Bachmann into office sincerely believe Marcus Bachmann is straight?

    Granted, I don't have the most technologically adavanced gaydar, but when Marcus Bachmann appears, my gaydar goes off like a Geiger counter at Fukushima.

    I just find it remarkable a district full of homophobes can keep electing a woman who is married to one of the most flamboyant homosexuals since Liberace.

    When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in excess body fat and carrying a misspelled sign.

    by wyvern on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:45:19 AM PDT

    •  heh. (9+ / 0-)

      I'm the same way (in fact, I'm not sure I accept the concept of gaydar yet) but one evening while exploring the upper-reaches of Dish Network I discovered a man on one of the 30 or so Christian (and by Christian, I mean almost universally fundamentalist, even the Catholic one) channels ranting about homophobia and he was practically a stereotype. Marcus does the same for me.

      He  could be, though, just a very feminine straight man. they do exist, although every one of those men  that I know personally is not a horrible evangelical homophobe.

      I'm struck by how the meanest, cruelest, nastiest people brag about how they live in a Christian nation. It's rather telling.

      by terrypinder on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:50:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  because its not important to their agenda (14+ / 0-)

      as long as he keeps insisting he's sticking it in her.  Lots of homophobes LOVED Liberace too because they just refused to see something so "nasty" about a man who treated his mum so well.

      And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

      by Mortifyd on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:55:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  wyvern--i have no idea (14+ / 0-)

      its entirely possible that if theres any disconnect btwn homophobia and how they register marcus' affect--

      --they reconcile that by thinking of marcus as a man who has decided not to be gay, with the help of Christ. ive never heardof marcus claiming that publicly, but maybe mb supporters see his affect, his lifestyle and rhetoric, and the fact that his clinics offer pray away the gay therapy--and come to their own marcus is okay with us conclusions. thats total speculation on my part.

      im flattered that you asked for my opinion on this but i dont want to get sidetracked into yet another discussion of marcus' supposedly gay affect, because this diary is about something much more important than that

      Co-author of the first political biography of Michele Bachmann: Michele Bachmann's America

      by Bill Prendergast on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 10:00:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They don't hate gays who keep it bottled up (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis, glorificus

      and get married to a girl like they're supposed to. I think they like having something repressed. They're all repressing SOMETHING!

    •  There were many little old ladies, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Liberace's fan base, who were utterly shocked when it was revealed that he was gay.  

      So, yes, it is entirely possible that it never crossed the minds of Bachmann's gay-hating voter base that Marcus is gay.  Denial is a funny thing.

      -5.13,-5.64; If you gave [Jerry Falwell] an enema, you could bury him in a matchbox. -- Christopher Hitchens

      by gizmo59 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:49:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It doesn't really matter to them (0+ / 0-)

      because they're what I call "who-thinkers" rather than "what-thinkers". They identify Marcus Bachmann as one of their tribe, and that's really all that matters. They're like the GOP Congresscritters who will oppose anything that Obama publicly supports, even if it was something that their party originally proposed. They're like the (fortunately a small minority of) parents of autistic kids who give their kids bleach enemas (no, I am NOT making this up) and argue that it's safe and effective because it didn't come from Big Pharma.

      People with a background in critical thinking recognize this kind of reasoning as the "genetic fallacy"; the incorrect belief that the truth of a statement depends on the identity of whoever first made it. Here we generally call one version of it "IOKIYAR" and I think that's the version we're dealing with in this case.

      If you integrate fantasy with reality, you do not instantiate reality. If you mix cow pie with apple pie, it does not make the cow pie taste better; it makes the apple pie worse. --Mark Crislip

      by ebohlman on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 06:02:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's easy to answer. They think he is straight (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      and doing God's work to reform homosexuals...

      Their gaydar doesn't go off when Marcus does his things, because he's good with Christ, no need to scrutinize further. Since he's given himself to Jesus to purge whatever gayness may have (had), he's saved and straight.

      I'm guessing, but I think I know how they think.

      24/7, it's all 'Great news for Romney!'

      by doinaheckuvanutjob on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 06:19:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Americans are not nearly scared enough of (34+ / 0-)

    ... these whackjobs. Annoyed, yes. Scared? No. Not yet.

    If you know history, you might be shaking in your shoes now.

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:47:06 AM PDT

  •  This is absolutely no surprise to me (23+ / 0-)

    or to most Kossacks, I would bet. We're not the ones who need educating or persuading—it's the rest of the country. Unfortunately, that task won't be undertaken by the mainstream media. It's so degenerate, lazy, ignorant, and self-satisfied that it will continue to act as though none of this is important.

    Among other things, this New Yorker article is just another bit of proof showing how the GOP has become a theocratic party. Without the Christianist extremists and their votes, the GOP would have very little power.

    •  I disagree--I think it is still a surprise to many (13+ / 0-)

      many Kossacks, because I don't see "the need to study and develop and implement an effective strategy for countering the religious right" as a priority here.

      I know that thousands of people here contribute diaries referencing the religious right; I know that the diarists sincerely believe that they're comparatively well-informed about the religious right. I know that Kos wrote a book about it last year(?)

      But I don't think most Kossacks are comparatively well-informed about the religious right, I don't think that most Kossacks could tell you much (for example) about the Council for National Policy and the role it plays in determining who can and cannot run for the Republican presidential nomination.

      I don't think I'm being patronizing: I don't think that many professional political journalists understand that the Christian right is now a third party, a third national party within a party. I don't think that academic professionals who study the Christian right have published on that hypothesis yet. (I checked academic databases a year and half ago, and there was nothing in hundreds of articles about that hypothesis.)

      So--no, I don't think most or even many Kossacks already know about what I'm writing about here. I don't even think there's much general interest in the hypothesis here, despite the thousands of diaries that are contributed on the American religious right.

      But the distinction that I'm writing about--will keep on kicking establishment GOP asses in GOP districts where evangelicals are strong. And that means that Dems, progressives, and liberals will eventually stumble into this distinction I've been drawing here for years. It's a very important distinction--it means the difference between dismissing the religious right as crazy outliers, or working a real-world strategy to defeat a hierarchy that regularly kicks progressive ass in the national policy debate.

      Co-author of the first political biography of Michele Bachmann: Michele Bachmann's America

      by Bill Prendergast on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 10:32:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree... (7+ / 0-)

        but with one caveat.

        I believe that many members of the LGBT community here are more aware of the network you write about. We have a long history with Bachmann in Minnesota, and see the ties to larger organizations inside and outside of Minnesota.

        It's obviously not universal, but when we are being attacked we start paying attention while the general public is still unaware of what's going on.

        “The arc of the moral universe Is long, but it bends toward justice” -Martin Luther King Jr.

        by legendmn on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 12:03:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unfortunately, too many of us (0+ / 0-)

          just look at their homophobia and see it as their primary defining characteristic rather than as just one manifestation of an ultra-authoritarian mindset. We're way, way, to quick to suspect internalized homophobia ("self-loathing closet case") as their primary motivation (and yes I am aware of the recent study showing that authoritarian types who repress their homosexuality are very likely to act in homophobic ways. I'm also aware of what "transposing conditionals" means and that most of the popular reporting on the story does just that). We concentrate on a few details and miss the big picture.

          If you integrate fantasy with reality, you do not instantiate reality. If you mix cow pie with apple pie, it does not make the cow pie taste better; it makes the apple pie worse. --Mark Crislip

          by ebohlman on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 06:19:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed, agreed, a thousand times! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        glorificus, Bill Prendergast

        How about a piece on the actual vetting of Palin by the whackjob inner sanctum, in Saint Paul, weeks before the convention ?? Many have wondered how she made it to the top of the list as a virtual unknown, but few have any factual history of her assault on power before the flood. I suspect you know this story in some detail, and it's one worth exposure, if for no other reason than the same cast of thugs is very likely working on the cover story to slip Willard past the fundacrazies through this convention and into the fall.

        The furnace of Affliction produces Refinement, in States as well as Individuals. John Adams, 1776.

        by semiAdult on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:57:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  A parallel media network (10+ / 0-)

    far to the right of Fox? In fact I wasn't aware that one existed. Thanks for waking me up this morning.

    The people have spoken and they're both named Koch. - Andy Borowitz

    by Red Bean on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:59:45 AM PDT

  •  Mostly, I think, these people are aural. (18+ / 0-)

    That is, they rely on what they hear, rather than what they see, to be informed.  Talk radio serves them well and FOX, which is really just radio with pictures.  The spoken word is more important than the written.  After all, throughout most of human history, there was little writing.  Indeed, writing was reserved for an elite cadre, much as money is being attempted to be reserved now. There's a reason both writing and currency are referred to as script.  They are figments of the imagination, icons, ideas made tangible.  They follow a different trajectory into the brain.  Video and audio are very different media and respond to different preferences.

    Our demagogic political "leaders" all have very distinctive voices to which certain populations respond automatically, like dogs to a whistle.
    Willard does not have such a voice.  Conservatives are concerned that perhaps Obama does.  Which is why they go out of their way to denigrate his speech-making and to give him as little time as possible in the national media.

    "In the name of the nation, and of the dollar and of the rule of law, you and your children shall sacrifice for the good of all." Rmoney's prayer

    by hannah on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:04:43 AM PDT

    •  Yes But They Attack Every Dem on the Dem's Strngth (15+ / 0-)

      He's intelligent and verbal so they attack him as stupid and inarticulate. They handle every enemy the same way.

      And the media being corporations, of course they're going to give the Dem as little time as their market will bear. There were times Clinton called press conferences and was lucky to have even one network show them.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:15:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They attack on command. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Rove and Luntz write the bulletpoints, the nutjobs load them up and go to battle. Thought optional, and likely discouraged, in those trenches.

        Both of them are masters of twist. Spin is sooo passe.

        The furnace of Affliction produces Refinement, in States as well as Individuals. John Adams, 1776.

        by semiAdult on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 04:00:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  and they hear voices in their heads (8+ / 0-)

      often enough to result in a DSM IV(R) diagnosis.

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:30:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? You know cases where that diagnosis (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        has been applied?  Or was this snark.  I'm genuinely curious.

        --------------- --------------- --------------- "Every part of you belongs to you." -- from a story of Virginia under the Personhood law. Read it here.

        by Fiona West on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 12:54:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That was snark... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Neon Vincent, agnostic, glorificus

          ..., which is obvious by the (R) behind the title of the book; agnostic is very good at writing snark.

          However, if you've ever gone to YouTube and watched the videos of Bachmann or Caribou Barbie, especially the videos where they are preaching politics in front of church congregations in churches that are apparently still getting their tax exemptions, you'll hear them talk about how 'god told them to run for office' after they 'prayed for guidance' and other words to that effect.

          IMHO, both Bachmann and Caribou Barbie (and a few other legislators who are currently serving in Congress, some in their first term as TeaPartiers) are genuinely certifiable under descriptions found in DSM-IV for delusional disorders, and personality disorders, especially narcissistic personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder (the personality disorders are usually found in combination, often three or four overlapping).

          DSM-IV is online on legitimate medical and psychiatric web sites, so you can read the descriptions for yourself.

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 01:51:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  all true, but based in some fact (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            There were a couple of studies i ran across back when I studied such things.

            There was a fairly large study which found that there was a direct correlation between the self-reported strength of one's religious beliefs, and the incidence of mental illness.

            Now, one can draw several conclusions from that, including that people are drawn to religious because they seek some sort of self help or self medication to help with their mental illness, OR

            People who are mentally ill are far more likely to fall for the claptrap that is the hallmark of organized religion. Think of the ease with which life can be lived. You are told what to think, told what to do, told what NOT to do, told how to pray and spend money (Mainly on the church or minister) and best of all, taught to live in fear and to prey. pray. whatever.

            What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

            by agnostic on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 02:22:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ya... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bill Prendergast, ebohlman, agnostic

              For those who need to live with external authoritarian and patriarchal rules for some kind of emotional/mental security, it seems to provide some kind of structured life.

              I don't get it.

              It reminds me of this one customer who came in to where I was working as office manager for a singing messenger service and wanted me to make her decision for which character to send to her husband for his birthday..., forcefully insisted with an angry tone of voice..., that I tell her which one to send to her husband for his birthday by second-guessing what I thought her husband would appreciate.  She'd planned for this idiocy to happen in the middle of a famous football game!  I knew, right then, that whatever she chose would go over like a lead balloon and he'd be pissed no matter what; which character didn't make a bit of difference.  No one in their right mind interrupts a football fanatic in the middle of a game!  Duh!  [She was obviously and pathetically looking for positive attention from her husband and not getting it.]

              After twenty minutes of my smiling and insisting I was not going to make her decision for her, she said she needed help making decisions "because I've never made a decision on my own in my life."

              My jaw dropped.

              "I'm sorry, but I can't make any decision for you," I said when I could recover my composure.  "I've never had anyone make decisions for me in my entire life, not even when I was a child."

              "Well, you know how it is when you have a husband.  You have to consider their wishes."

              "I don't have a husband."

              Her eyes were bugging out of her head by that point, realizing she was really and truly not going to get any sympathetic help from me.  I was sweetly, passively, smilingly and unfailingly nice about it (PR was always my strength in working with the public), but adamantly refused to let myself be suckered into being her scapegoat.

              Well (after wasting most of an hour with her in a transaction that should have taken ten minutes, max, on a slow day), she finally made a decision without my help, the whole thing was a spectacular flop a few days later, the guy didn't appreciate it even though it was an attractive young woman who did the song and dance and interrupted his football game, and the woman called me and said her husband didn't like it.  By the way she worded her sentences, I knew she wanted me to take the blame for her bad decision because I'd finally talked her into making up her own mind, even as she groused about having had to make the decision as she left the office that day.

              Light bulb moment:  Dependent little wifey-poos (or subservient hubbies) who need someone else to make their decisions need that because when the decision goes all wrong, they have someone to blame!  I made up my mind I'd be damned if I was going to be her scapegoat!

              That kind of personality converts easily to having a religious savior.  There's always someone to blame when things go wrong, even if one has to take the blame one's self for not being good enough and do the penance or take the beating (for real or metaphorically) for being bad, and there's a savior to give credit to when things go right, instead of giving credit to one's self for being good enough to do something right.  It's all built in to the belief system, which is why dependent types take to Christianity so well (there is a dependent personality disorder, too).

              They don't have to take responsibility for their own ignorance - in fact, don't want to be smart (notice the streak of anti-intellectualism for the last quarter of a century that is getting stronger).  Someone else always has the answers.  Works great not knowing some old pope in the Dark Ages wrote an order that 'the masses were to be kept uneducated because ignorant people are easier to control.'  Protestants adopted the same attitude that the masses are to follow and take orders and give the church money.  It's okay if the masses are ignorant (or, just flat out willfully stupid), as long as they obey the minister/priest who is always right about everything because he communes with the invisible guy in the sky - oh, and give their money to the church, of course (priorities must not be forgotten, and money is the first priority).

              So, yes, while I don't understand it in the least, I can see where there's a direct correlation between mental illness and religiosity.

              Obviously, I don't understand martyrdom either.

              I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

              by NonnyO on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:47:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It is not enough for some to BE anti- (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                intellectual. A goodly number of those you describe also demand it of others, they view ejukayshun as something to be scorned, they view professionals and educators with suspicion, and they inflict the worst kind of bigotry and bias upon their spawn, leading to even more anti-intellectualism.

                What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                by agnostic on Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 04:52:30 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Rythym and cadence are key to ritual, (30+ / 0-)

      far more than iconography.

      There are distinct vocal rhythms unique to this culture- or at least I've never heard them anywhere else. They developed from the vocal patterns of sermons, but they've crept over into the very recognizable Evangelical " authority voice". Basically, it's an intonation that evokes a religious response to the speaker, not a rational one.

      I dunno- If I listen to these guys, I'll literally start glossing over the actual words they're using, and just listen to the sound divorced from the meaning. ( I'm a percussionist by avocation- I'll do this with machines, too.)

      Here's the thing- If you sit and expose yourself to this stuff for a while, you WILL start to be affected- the same way I can't hear a mambo without tapping my feet. This is a technique, conscious or not, that is literally inducing a trance state- critical thinking is suspended. You'll buy in to the speaker, the same way that you'll buy into the dance, without ever realizing the transition.

      Hell, I'll bet that if you put pulse monitors on a selection of listeners, their heart rates would ebb and flow in unison. This is a very powerful experience- the same magic that's at the heart of of African dance or a Grateful Dead show- the shared trance state. And chasing that gets tribal- it becomes a referance so deep that it is difficult to communicate with non-initiates.

      I dunno- I guess I think that it's more the song than the singer, and that we minimize it's revelatory nature at our own peril.

      •  Sounds like Progressives... (0+ / 0-)

        ...need to adopt this style of speaking.

        The road to Hell is paved with pragmatism.

        by TheOrchid on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 11:26:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Not... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          ... if they want people to pay attention to what they are actually saying.

          As Remembering Jello said, after a while one just listens to the sound, not the actual words.

          It's those of us who read the words who note what is actually said vs the audience's impression of what is said who have been paying attention to reality vs daydreams and beliefs.

          Actually, we have a notable speaker like that already.  During the first two+year campaign, I noted a LOT of comments right here on DK that indicated people had not heard a word of what Obama actually SAID.  Comments were full of the daydreams of what a commenter believed was said and the miracles the commenter believed Obama would pull off....

          Reality has come as a great shock to some of them, but others still believe....

          I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

          by NonnyO on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 01:59:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Trance Induction w/ Triggers Grounded in Abusive (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Child rearing .

        Right Wing tribal identity is grounded by shared abusive childhoods.  They react to the same authoritarian triggers and suffer from the same cognitive dissonance.  Things don't need to be spoken aloud for them to "get it".  Dog whistles, symbolism, coded language is enough.

        This post is dedicated to myself, without whom, I'd be somebody else. Though I'd still be an asshole. My Music: []

        by Beetwasher on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:38:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  "You cannot argue with a song" (0+ / 0-)

        I suppose you've read Bloch's famous article:  

        Maurice Bloch (1974). Symbols, Song, Dance and Features of Articulation: Is religion an extreme form of traditional authority?. European Journal of Sociology, 15 , pp 54-81 doi:10.1017/S0003975600002824

        If not, it's worth it.

        "They smash your face in, and say you were always ugly." (Solzhenitsyn)

        by sagesource on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 07:09:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  More Influential Than Daily Kos Could Ever Be (8+ / 0-)

    which is what's important.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:13:22 AM PDT

  •  The only reason that they are treated as important (12+ / 0-)

    is not because AFA's membership is large. To the contrary, it is not.

    Rather, the AFA had an online survey, intended to gather 1,000,000 signatures to support some crazy ultraconservative approach to legislation. They fielded at total of 34,000. AFTER a huge promotion, advertising, direct mailing, and more. In fact, the numbers were so embarrassing that the whole issue quietly disappeared from their website with nary a splash. (If only I had known how to take screen shots at the time).

    AFA recently cancelled the FaceBook connection with the Million Moms movement. Not only did they garner a couple of thousand people ready to join, the commentary from normal people was so scathing and insulting, that they called it quits.

    Both Bachmann and AFA have something in common. Because their ideas are so FUCKING BATSHIT INSANE, and because they have absolutely no shame whatsoever, they can and do say things that are newsworthy, if only for the shock and awe value that they offer.

    I would not overestimate the AFA's power, nor Bachmann's popularity, except within a small, demented, auto-lobotomized group of bible beating bastards.

    To do otherwise gives them power to which they are not entitled.

    One more point, religious membership in all religions is falling. Church going is fading. Megachurch construction is dead in the water. Other megachurches are declaring bankruptcy and closing their doors. (How the hell does a tax free institution go BK?) Catholic diocese have multiple problems with filling the pews, and worse, finding non-child abusing white collar wearing priests to man those churches. And, most recently, apolitical studies found that today's yute is rapidly falling out of religion. They do not belong, they do not attend, and they do not believe. (see what the intertubes have done? Spreading knowledge IS the best attack against insane religions)

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:29:15 AM PDT

    •  you miss the point--i am not (13+ / 0-)

      arguing that the afa is the same thing as the consv evang party i am writing about. i didnt say that i dont believe that its not written up there in the diary and thats not the view presented in the new yorker piece

      fischers outlet/the afa and bachmann are only small piecse of what i am writing about, in the same way that two raisins are only pieces of raisin bread. i dont know why i have to make myself clear again, when i already made myself clear in the diary. when the author of the new yorker piece references  parallel universe of ultraright media, she is not referring simply to or only to Fischer and his outlet and organization...

      it's hundreds of broadcast outlets, salem media, focus on the family, dobson, robertson and robertson trained media and activists.

      Co-author of the first political biography of Michele Bachmann: Michele Bachmann's America

      by Bill Prendergast on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:50:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, I got your point, and your facts (9+ / 0-)

        as to the exposure they create with their media and the exposure (mostly friendly) in more standard outlets, including Cable.

        But my point is that America is changing, luckily, away from this crap. The yute vote is NOT tuning in to the religious stations. They are NOT tithing, they do NOT attend services like mum and daddums, and they view the world from a far more secular view.

        I also agree that we must keep track of these religious terrorists, if only for are self-protection. Is this at odds with my point that their impact is eroding, their numbers are falling? Not in the least.

        What I am saying is that some of the most committed folks are even more dangerous now, as they see and sense their demands going unmet, and their numbers fading. Shooting doctors, blowing up Planned Parenthood places, calling for the death of Obama,  - these are all true, all are real dangers we face. In fact, because their power is diminishing and their numbers fade, they are ever more desperate and therefore, likelier to act in ever more violent ways.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 10:27:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  recommended, because a lot (14+ / 0-)

          of what you say about youth "aging out" is certainly true.

          The problem is: the ultraright paranoid stuff never goes away. It's an American political pathology, a personality type (Maybe you've read Hofstadter's classic "The Paranoid Style in American Politics.)

          This personality type has always been present in our democracy, from the earliest days. The names and agenda change, but it's about selling voters on internal conspiracy and internal enemies and fantasies about fictional crap, and the use of lies to spread the conspiracies.

          Hofstadter wrote his survey shortly after McCarthy had fallen, so this kind of thinking and personality was on the fringe. There was hope that we had gotten past the kind of culture where this paranoia could be influential. Most intelligent people laughed at the John Birch Society in the 60s.

          But we now live in an America where people with that kind of paranoid style can come to power, can be admitted to the debate with media respect. (You saw the quality of the Republican presidential candidates last year. Ron Paul? Bachmann? Santorum?) The sad truth is: we don't outgrow the danger of the paranoid, lying right: McCarthy is back, stronger than ever and his style legitimized by the GOP candidates we see. McCarthy's heirs are gaining ground...

 part because the guys at the top of this hierarchy I'm writing about: have successfully associated Jesus Christ with paranoid politics in the eyes of tens of millions of voters. You say it's changing, the leadership is aging out and the youth is drifting away. I say: that's true for now, but this is actually a political party, a powerful and sophisticated one that can modify its rhetoric and immediate agenda to keep voters and attract more voters. It's done so in the past, since the seventies.

          For example: right now, gay rights and gay marriage are hot button issues for this movement. If young evangelicals become more tolerant of gays, they simply move to another hot button issue: alleged "persecution" of conservative Christians in America, or white nativism, or "true Christianity" in conflict with seculars and "Christians who aren't really Christian." There's no shortage of fantasy enemies for this demographic.

          They've built a new political identity for right wing Christians and political paranoids--a new identity that legitimizes their voters almost as if they are an ethnicity. They're not going to throw that power base rooted in identity politics--they won't do that, because power is what the people at the top of this hierarchy want. Newer leaders with a modified rhetoric will supplant the old, and no one can say that they won't be just as influential as the old--combining Christianity with political paranoia tailored to a new generation.

          Thus I have to disagree with you-- they're more sophisticated and experienced and established than you give them credit for. This thing I'm writing about is here to stay unless we can get corporate media to stamp it out by discrediting it. For the people at the top of this new party, it's a matter of tuning the demagogy and hatred to bring in the conservatives of the next generation.  

          Co-author of the first political biography of Michele Bachmann: Michele Bachmann's America

          by Bill Prendergast on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 10:53:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Nope. Can't do it. Born and raised in the bible (11+ / 0-)

    belt and I won't spend another nanosecond listening to the crazies.  You listen.  Tell me what they said and where to write the check to shut them up.  Thanks for the New Yorker link.  Will read on Sunday.  Seems appropriate.

  •  You're absolutely right (12+ / 0-)

    But what do we do with an opposition that puts its fingers in its ears and shouts, "La La La I can't hear you" every time anyone makes an attempt to discuss anything with them?

    I think what we need is oppo research on these people. Ted Haggard can't be the only one of them who knows the closet well.

    -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:39:13 AM PDT

  •  If this doesn't make the reclist (10+ / 0-)

    Something's wrong.

    Personally - I don't believe that some of the string-pullers in the "movement" actually believe their own nonsensical spewings. But there's money and power in it.

    I'd rather be a "Tree-hugger" than a "Planet-raper" and a Destroyer of Worlds -- But I'm funny that way. I want a living Earth, not just a living room.

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:47:42 AM PDT

    •  Of course they believe in their ideas (4+ / 0-)

      since those ideas don't need to be grounded in facts or objective reality or any of that liberal nonsense.  Movement string puller pulls the string -- the string brings him money, influence, power. Of COURSE he's going to believe in that string.

      What's that old saying? 'It's hard to convince a man of something when his livelihood depends on him believing the opposite.' This is simply the converse: it is very easy to convince a man of something when his livelihood depends on it.

      Sincerity is important, when you learn to fake that, you've got it made! This isn't a joke to those people, it's on page one of the manual.

      You think they are hypocrites for believing something you can't believe. Trust me, if you heard voices in your head you'd think those voices were real voices, too. Now, you might also think those voices were produced by a mental injury or disease, and do whatever you could to get rid of them, but that doesn't make the voices any less real to the person who hears them. They've just been trained to believe those voices are a sign of grace, and a good thing.

      "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

      by Orinoco on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 11:55:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  These sorts of diaries ... (26+ / 0-)

    ... always afford me an opportunity to again trot out my story.

    I was raised in a strict evangelical home and was forced to attend a large and influential Assemblies of God church until I managed my escape.

    My experience leads me to warn anyone who will listen: These people are extremely dangerous. A large percentage of them are mentally ill, hair-trigger violent, armed to the antlers and without restraints when it comes to achieving their goals. You cannot shame them, you cannot change them and your negativity towards them only encourages them more.

    We are slipping into into an extraordinary situation with their recent rise that will require extraordonary measures to reverse.

    As for their "beliefs," I can only tell you that my late mother was nearly a carbon copy of Bachmann and her ilk. She was an evil, psychotic, child-abusing monster who hung on every word any religious media authority or minister tossed out.

    Did she believe that stuff? To answer that, we'd need to explore the semantics of the word "belief" and the possibility that her absorption of that much hateful dogma overwhelmed any ability to incorporate it in a meaningful way.

    I do believe that she bathed in religious radio and television, printed materials and the Sunday theatrics so that she never had to actually stop and think about any alternative view. Years later, when I began to confront her beliefs, she would simply lock up, switch to her famous murderous stare and spit out that anyone who disagrees with her should be locked up and silenced in internment camps. After she died, I found a column she'd clipped from some James Dobson wannabe publication advocating exactly that.

    You ignore these people at your peril and, frankly, it may well be too late to roll them back.

  •  Bill (19+ / 0-)

    please edit your diary near the beginning to include and give credit to the author of the article in the New Yorker. It is the wonderful Jane Mayer.  She is a great investigative writer who really researches her subjects.

    She is one of the major reasons I subscribe to the New Yorker, not a cheap magazine.  

  •  The author was on Fresh Air last night (16+ / 0-)

    None of what she said surprised me in the slightest.  The interview, and the article in the New York, are yet more proof greatest threat to democracy and pluralism in this country has been and continues to be the Religious Right.

  •  Like any other shill, the mainstream media (4+ / 0-)

    may have tripped over the truth, but they will soon enough pick themselves up and walk off as if it had never happened.

    It's the nature of the beast.

  •  The religous right exist in a parallel universe (10+ / 0-)

    that requires them to basically stay out of contact with the rest of us. They can quite happily live their lives without actually having to talk to anyone who is not a fundamentalist. They have their own news sources, entertainment (TV and radio), their own restaurants, theme parks, movies. They have their own coded language. They educate their children separate from the rest of us. And their churches form a social life that takes up most of the weeks free time.

    They have created a separate country within a country and the explosion of media choices enable this. You can, if you so wish, "protect" your family by hewing strictly to "safe" cultural things and avoiding the rest of us. That is the advantage of the megachurch. Your whole life revolves around the life of the church.

    They believe the nonsense they believe because it reinforces their decision to withdraw from the world. And by that I do not mean religious beliefs in general but the particular paranoid belief structure that they embrace. Facts do not matter because the devil can manipulate facts. And so much of the bible is circular  logic and anyone who deviates from the official line becomes an agent of the "enemy"

    In other words it is a distinctly American version of Stalin-ism.

    •  i wouldn't mind them (8+ / 0-)

      staying in their alternate reality if they didn't want to force their "reality" on the rest of us. Which they do.

      I'm struck by how the meanest, cruelest, nastiest people brag about how they live in a Christian nation. It's rather telling.

      by terrypinder on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 12:05:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'd like to see actual conversion rates (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fiona West, PinHole, glorificus

      One of the most important functions of all of this cultural isolation is to brainwash the youth of the movement and indoctrinate them into the cult.

      I've got a laundry list of friends, mostly atheists now, that grew up in this type of situation and it always makes me wonder how many converts this sort of mainstream cultural avoidance garners.

      Are they fulfilling their mission or do their authoritarian tactics backfire and we get a generational backlash that forces more young people out of their grasp and into reality?

      The only difference between (Mitt) Romney and George W. Bush is that Romney hasn't destroyed the American economy, yet - MoT

      by Herodotus Prime on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 12:18:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unfortunately (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        one of Mr Pinhole's young relatives is doing his damndist.  He's a youth minister in Charlottesville, VA.  One of many on the U of Va campus.

        In addition to recruiting foreign students (Africa mainly) he is there to shore up the products of Vacation Bible School, least they go astray in the real world.  

      •  It is like a ponzi scheme (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NonnyO, glorificus

        they count the recruits coming in but not the people leaving. Their primary mission is to get more converts and more money. More money means more converts. More converts mean more money. And so on. It makes what Jim Bakker went to jail for seem minor and petty.

  •  Driving cross country a couple of years ago (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Fiona West, blueoasis, glorificus

    I had the opportunity to listen to a lot of Christian stations, mostly because there wasn't anything else available. I bypassed the lectures, sermons and talking heads (I really just wanted background music for long distance driving) and the ubiquitous country western stuff.

    Some of the remaining music was listen-able, but troubling. I recall listening to one light, bouncy fluffy piece, and I recall thinking at the time that the lyrics could be interpreted as encouraging suicide bombers. Something about doing whatever it took to show one's love for god, or words to that effect. It wasn't at all blatant, just sub-text stuff, but I wonder if anyone has heard any similar lyrics to Christian music.

    "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

    by Orinoco on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 12:07:05 PM PDT

  •  "oppo research on public, unelected figures" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole, Neon Vincent

    Can we include the Catholic Bishops in that group?  Over and over they've shown that they are a criminal enterprise involved in the systematic cover-up of the child rape epidemic involving Roman Catholic Priests.

    The opposite of "good" is "good intention" - Kurt Tucholsky

    by DowneastDem on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 12:23:31 PM PDT

  •  I am neither conservative nor evangelical (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, DeminNewJ, slouchsock

    And I'm not so sure the Mormon religion should rightly be called 'Christian' either.

  •  Interesting Article! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zedaker, PinHole, burlydee

    One comment was very specific:

    Firm resistance to same-sex marriage and abortion, Bauer argues, is essential to winning over these voters: “If the cultural issues, like traditional marriage and the sanctity of life, go, the Republican Party is dead.”
    The GOP, Tea Party, Koch Brothers, all the Right Wing-Nuts realize that to mobilize the votes, they have to emphasize the issues that are non-existent.  The Republican Congress was elected in the Tea Party landslide in 2010 and did nothing for anybody, but they immediately started pushing their social agenda.

    It is the social agenda that motivates their base.  The Social Agenda keeps turning out middle class voters to pull the lever in the voting machine to cancel out their own economic interests.  Until women understand that it is their children that they are harming with their votes, we will have to confront the Billionaires dollars and the Wingnuts.  

    When people understand that Billionaires' dollars and Wingnuts wishes are against their interests, then they may create a political party that will work within our political system.

    "As long as Corporations control Government, there is no reason for Government to regulate Corporations!" John Roberts, Citizens United (SNARK)

    by NM Ray on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 01:14:01 PM PDT

    •  Bauer and I are from the same place (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bill Prendergast, NM Ray

      Newport, KY =  Northern Kentucky = Greater Cincinnati - one of the most conservative areas of the country.  I grew up in an emotionally incestuous catholic family, experienced child sexual abuse, left home and joined the Air Force as a young man & I never returned and never looked back.  I am so glad I had the courage and the support of the Air Force community to break free from the overall smothering and repellant forces of those who hate and judge and look down on others.  When I start feeling like making some step at reconciling with a sibling (I have four) I haven't had any contact with since 1978 - I remember the scene where my younger brother gave me a bloody nose on my other brother's porch while I was home on leave - because - he followed me into downtown Cincinnati and saw me meeting with and kissing another young man in my car early one frosty morning.  Fun times.  Back in Boehner's & Bauer's hometown.

  •  Too bad no one will ever say it (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but the Republican Party is now led by an AIDS denier and tax protester.

  •  Make Sure You Pronounce Words Correctly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Fundamentalist is pronounced FUN DULL MENTALIST, and Evangelical is pronounced EVEN JELLY CALLS.

  •  They live in a very strange land (0+ / 0-)

    far removed from our reality and the body of sane discourse and discussion that we know and love.  Their context - their parameters - have nothing to do with the rest of the civilized world.  They  even state and affirm with conviction that the US constitution is based on the christian bible, as interpreted by right wing evangelical/fundamentalist nutcases who have declared themselves "Reverend."  Thus they say a marriage is between "one man and one woman, and has been for all eternity and will be, forever and ever, Amen."  Do they think that by closing their eyes and clicking their heels together three times they will stop progress and evolution and human development and the expansion of rights to all individuals in our country?  They are out of their minds.

  •  dominionists. call 'em what they are. (0+ / 0-)

    why people on the right think that collective bargaining for teachers is worse than plans to PROFIT off little childrens' test scores, i'll never know...

    by stagemom on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 04:45:00 PM PDT

  •  Thank You - N/T (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bill Prendergast

    "Upward, not Northward" - Flatland, by EA Abbott

    by linkage on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 10:22:02 PM PDT

  •  Scheduled ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bill Prendergast

    ... to be re-published on Street Prophets.


    "Upward, not Northward" - Flatland, by EA Abbott

    by linkage on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 10:24:30 PM PDT

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