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On Father`s Day my son asked me "What`s with the White Rose?" as I read the diaries and many other writings about the historical day my son celebrated as he handed me a card, and a warm hug.

Like any older Dad, I smiled at my son`s question about the white rose I chose to wear on this day. I smiled because I understand that this gesture of the white rose has been lost by today`s standards of celebrating Father`s Day. Even as I write this I have to assume that the "not so young, but not so old" Kossacks have no idea or just plainly forgot that a "White Rose" worn by a person means that the father is dead. Some might not even know of this world wide tradition about our parents symbol of life and death.

Our more lucky people who still have their parents, Mother or Father, wear a Red Rose to announce that their parent, whether on Mother`s or Father`s Day still lives.

Take it from Ole Texan, if you did not wear a rose on Father`s Day Sunday, wear one next year and see how different and more meaningful it will feel when someone utters those words as they look at your flower`s symbol and tribute to Dad, or Mom.

Now having dished unsolicited advise, I pass on to explain why I request help from
the Genealogy and Family History community. With your permission.

Recently, and with painful regrets I wrote here in a diary that I did not care to know what happened to my siblings after I was taken and torn apart from them when my Mother handed me to my grandmother around 1940 in San  Antonio while the rest of my siblings remained behind where I was born in Austin, Texas.

By word of mouth I learned that most, if not all perished following my escape from the jaws of starvation in harsh and deplorable times that effectively erased any and all memory or trace of my siblings.

Looking at my own children as they have become adults and with families of their own, I feel so guilty denying them of my past history or family roots. sometimes I look in the mirror and see a Nazi burning anything or history that may educate my children of where I came from or who came with me. So I have reversed course on what I said in a diary about caring for my past and my lost siblings. I do care.

I started with my meager techie savvy on data search and always end up against a blank wall as I Google for "free" family tree searches. I have signed up and taken out an account with "FamilySearch", a free online that purports to help me find family roots and history. Yeah, right. Woe is me as I cannot even find myself online.

I enter the correct names and information that I am instructed to type and I get
the same "no recorded information on person" that I am looking for.

I ask for help here not only for my own curiosity to find these siblings and perhaps even know who my own father was, but to someday tell my kids the story and the complete story of where I came from.

I am sorry for this short burden I place on some of you. Even if I fail, I will rest in peace knowing I tried. But most important, it means to me that I do care after all. Even after three quarters of a century I do care.

Originally posted to Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:43 AM PDT.

Also republished by Genealogy and Family History Community.

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Comment Preferences

  •  email me? (17+ / 0-)

    There really aren't any 'for free' sites anymore and only ones that tantalize with more information for $$$.  I finally broke down and subscribed to a site where information is available, of course, for money, but if you would like, you can write me (email address can be obtained by clicking on my name), I can see what I can find for you and give you leads to follow.  Send me names, dates birth, where, and parent's names and I will do what I can.  

  •  OT, sorry it's so difficult (15+ / 0-)

    I've actually had decent luck with FamilySearch.  I was able to find the death certificates for one set of my wife's grandparents.  They both died in Texas (1957 & 2003) and the forms were accessible online.

    IIRC Texas birth certificates are available to other than parents and the child after 75 years.  You may be able to make some headway there.

    FamilySearch also has "service" offices available.  They are usually located at a nearby LDS church.  Don't know what their policies regarding helping non members is.

    “that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.” Thomas Jefferson

    by markdd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:51:58 AM PDT

    •  Hey markdd, how are (8+ / 0-)

      you? Thank you for your comment, again. It was nice knowing you and your recent trip to Texas.

      I think I am very lucky. Some very nice Kossack has come into my diary and provided some awesome good help and good news.

      Personally, I am in a total loss in following this type of trail but the information I get from this person is accurate and positive. My birth records have been found along with the misspelled name of my mother. I am told my father`s name does not show on my birth certificate and I know this information is accurate because I have a copy of my birth certificate and my father`s name does not appear in it either, so yeah, markdd, I am feeling some luck so soon.

      Thank you for your comment and I will stay on the this until I find out what I am looking for. I think I owe this to myself and my kids.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:39:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My local LDS church has a genealogy library (5+ / 0-)

      ... and anyone that walks in can access and other data sources on their account for free.  You can take your own laptop or memory stick in order to copy & save source info you glean from searches.  There are also volunteers that can help with searches of the LDS's library of microfilm records, etc.

      They're very nice.

  • has a free trial period (17+ / 0-)

    Or you can buy a monthly membership. As for Family History Centers, as markdd mentions they are usually located at Mormon churches. And they do help non-members AFAIK.

    p.s. Republished to GFHC, so expect further input from that quarter. :-)

    There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. ~Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

    by slksfca on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 09:00:15 AM PDT

  •  My heart goes out to you... (17+ / 0-)

    And I'll echo what others have said, FamilySearch can be a good tool, but it can be frustrating when you go it alone. I've done some volunteer indexing for them ... including some death records for Texas from the 1930s-1950s ... it is a seemingly tedious process where records are indexed, but then need to be adjudicated for accuracy before the results are made. This takes time, so it is always worthwhile to check back frequently.

    Also, is free at a number of libraries ... that is always worth checking out, as well as at any LDS local research reading room.

    You mention 1942 as the key date ... finding info on the 1940 census is "hard" right now, but the 1930 census is a good place to start looking at your parents, even if you and your siblings weren't born yet. And as for entering "correct" names, try entering some spelling is surprising how many names don't really have a "correct" spelling.

    Also, old newspapers from the area can be a gold mine of information ... not just names/dates, but for what was going on in the larger world and locally -- which often can give you some ideas about other places to look.

    This off the top of my head ... I'm sure there will be others posted.

    "If you are sure you understand everything that is going on around you, you are hopelessly confused." Walter Mondale

    by klompendanser on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 09:17:43 AM PDT

  •  PM Me, if I know something I will let you know (13+ / 0-)

    Good luck and thanks for the Rose Symbolism. I had no idea that it was associated with that. I was always told a White Rose [in general] meant pure or spiritual love.

  •  I have a paid ancestry account. (10+ / 0-)

    I can run some searches for you if you'd like.

  •  Here are the Texas Resources (all free) (11+ / 0-)

    from FamilySearch Record Search

    If a camera icon appears next to the link that means actual digital images are included - otherwise they are simply database entries.  I believe they have most Texas death certificates and many births and marriages.

    Texas Resources at FamilySearch

    FamilySearch also has nearly all the census indexing done now (all for free) but in most cases it is just the transcription and not the images - still it can be a great help!

    Census at FamilySearch

    Only about half of the 1940 Texas Census has been indexed so far but you could start there and if they don't show up move back to the 1930 census.  It is best to always start in the latest and work your way backward!

  •  tools for paupers: (10+ / 0-)

    random census chosen.

    random name and county and topic chosen. of all the states, texas seems to be the least served at usgenweb. but it's free !

    to give you a rough idea... and sometimes you can obtain definitive information here but it can all be very tricky.

    when you get some time under your belt, you'll look like a chameleon, with those amazing eyes they have!

    Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.
    * Join: OBAMA'S TRUTH TEAM *

    by greenbird on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 09:22:58 AM PDT

  •  I can only offer limited help (9+ / 0-)

    But I will give you what I have.  I try to triangulate information on ancestors by basing it on a general "what was going on in that area at the time" respect.  To that end, I have an overview on Texas in the Depression years at:

    This is a survey doc, but it does have further information on who was controlling services in TX during those years. There are also reference books on TX history at the bottom of the post.  See if your library has these books and see what you can get out of them on Depression era services.

    It is also possible that The Texas State Historical Association itself might be able to help you.

    Texas State Historical Association
    1155 Union Circle #311580
    Denton, Texas 76203-5017

    If there is something specifically that I can research for you, let me know.

  •  I am totally overwhelmed, (10+ / 0-)

    with the outpouring of so generous advise. I already have addressed one particular person who offered help if I sent an email. I have sent my own email address asking to be contacted. I thank all of you.

    I will certainly follow all and each of your responses. I have nothing to do as I am (like I like to describe myself) a stay-at-home granddad -- to water the plants.

    I will begin immediately and keep all of you posted. Again I thank all of you wonderful Kossacks.

    Old men tell same old stories

    by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 09:52:04 AM PDT

  •  This one could cost a little bit of money (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    klompendanser, raina, Jim H, edwardssl

    but it might lead you to some of the answers you are looking for. Look and see if there is a family DNA project for people who have your father's last name--then check and see if any of those people had ancestors who were in the same areas as your father and siblings. If you find people who fit that description, you might be able to find out more about your father.

    If you don't find anybody, you could possibly have your own DNA tested, and see if any matches come up. It costs about $100 to have the basic test done.

    We did that when researching our own family tree, and found a relative in Canada who had been adopted when he was a baby after both his parents died. We had no idea we had relatives in Canada. We also found the lines we are related to over in the UK.

    •  tonyahky, I really do appreciate (6+ / 0-)

      your warm and extensive advise. Not to sound snobby or funny, but you are writing not only to one of the oldest men living on this website, but one of the poorest.

      When it comes to paying amounts that goes into DNA, I sort of think lawyers, like those seeking evidence through  DNA testings and so forth. I know that costs a pretty penny which I cannot afford.

      But it is very true what you write on. It is difficult for me to even think of finding a DNA database that deals with a fathers name and then follow from them. But this does not discourages me. I will try everything being offered me today, and I know I will be quite busy for some time to come.

      Thank you very cordially.
      Ole Texan

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 10:37:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can help with DNA too (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raina, Jim H, klompendanser, edwardssl

        I use 23andme service for DNA and they have a Relative Finder that matches me with other DNA relatives. People who are interested can list family names for public matches, so I can search those for a family name and just check if they happen to know anything about your family members.(if you give me some information). Some people there are really into family history, others are strictly interested in medical/ethnic information, but it is another resource I can access.

        George W. Bush: the worst Republican president SO FAR.

        by Chun Yang on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 10:57:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Family Search is actually prettty good... (6+ / 0-)

    And it's free.

    Ancestry frequently offers free trials.  Same thing with Fold3...which now concentrates on military records but there is a lot of great information from before they took that path still available there.

    There may be local Rootsweb and GenWeb sites for that area.  They can be hit or miss but still...

    Churches can be helpful too, presuming you know what church your family attended.

    Family Search has a bunch of death indexes related to Texas...literally millions of names.

    Sometimes not finding something means something too.  That you might be looking in the wrong place...that your incomplete knowledge might be wrong.

    I guess you have no living family connections to begin your search with?  The more you know the easier it is to find more.

    If the founding fathers thought corporations were people why didn't they just say so?

    by Notthemayor on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 10:40:26 AM PDT

  •  How to find your siblings (6+ / 0-)

    I have done genealogy and family history for over 30 years now and usually do it for my friends for free.  If you are looking to find out if any of your siblings are still alive, the Red Cross might be able to help.  If you are looking to trace your family back, drop me a line and I will help you out, my pleasure to do so.


    •  Hello Gerald. I (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jim H, klompendanser, raina, edwardssl

      thank you for your offer to help me. I will certainly get in contact with you "if and only" when another good Kossack runs into a blank wall like I did.

      I think I now have the person who will solve my search even if only showing me the front entrance. So far and so quick, this person has given me accurate information and I feel we are on the right track.

      To avoid distracting my searcher and avoid confusing you with same information which might get entangled, please let me wait and I will get back to you, for sure -- even if only to thank you again, but I will.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:10:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can only give advice as is applies to VA (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    klompendanser, raina, Jim H, edwardssl

    But in VA you can contact the Department of Vital Records, and for a fee, get birth and death certificates of relatives. I don't know if you can do the same in TX. Our library system also connects to various geneology websites, but not Ancestry. All you need is a library card, and you can do it from your home and through the library's website.

    Good luck!

  •  I can help too (5+ / 0-)

    I am a native Texan, familiar with searching and am probably related to you. ;-) I also have account so if you want to send me some information, I can go to work.

    We could crowd-source this, guys!

    George W. Bush: the worst Republican president SO FAR.

    by Chun Yang on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 10:53:42 AM PDT

    •  I just do not know if (8+ / 0-)

      there are words I can use to thank all of you who have so
      generously offered me help and advise.

      I have wonderful good news rapidly from one saintly kossack who has already found my birth records. I do think this information is accurate because this Kossack also found my mother`s name misspelled the same way I know it is misspelled in my birth certificate that I have with me.

      The same way my mother`s name is misspelled according to this kossack is the same way it is misspelled in my birth certificate. How accurate is the information I am getting so soon???. I thank this kossack with my heart and we are still going forward with additional information I have provided. I will certainly keep you all posted, and if necessary I will write a diary and name my new hero.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:03:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  First, start with yourself.... (9+ / 0-)

    I've been doing genealogy research for fifty years now.  I don't know everything, but basics one can learn fairly quickly.

    Get a computer-based genealogy program.  A few are free online.  You will need a way of organizing this data.

    How-to books on the subject of genealogy do say "Start with yourself."  The second thing they say is "Get documents for everything."

    What does your birth certificate say?

    What are the names and ages of your parents listed (your mother's maiden name is supposed to be listed, not her married name)?  What are their occupations?  Some states have birth dates and locations of birth for the parents on their child's birth certificate.  It really all depends on the state and the era.  The older the info, the more likely it's only found in old ledger books instead of filed as separate pieces of paper for each person.

    Then get US census data.  The 1940 US census was just released on 2 April this year.  Not all of those records are indexed yet..., but, if you have a specific location in mind, you can scroll through the records and find the people you're looking for and if you are old enough, your parents and grandparents and their siblings will be in those census pages, and - so far - there are two or three web sites that have free downloads of the 1940 US census images.

    1930 US census and earlier:  Many are indexed on the LDS web site (quality of transcriptions for the indexes often leaves much to be desired - and in some cases, some were not indexed, and in others, the transcribers were clearly not thinking when they couldn't read plain handwriting).  Home page for the LDS site:
    Click on United States.  A long index will pop up.  Where there are camera icons images are available - some are free on the LDS site (unbelievably, I've actually found documents for a free download in a few cases).  Some are able to be scrolled through, and where one is lucky, there is an index.  Otherwise..., it's slogging through one image at a time until one finds the image with the information you're looking for.

    1900 US census is indexed and the images are available for a free download on the LDs site.  Re-name each document as you download it.  Start with year, two-letter state code, county, township/town, then surname of the person listed on that page.  That way all your census images will index themselves numerically and alphabetically in your files.  Start a census file in your computer and put ONLY census info in it.  It will soon be very large.

    1910, 1920, 1930 are indexed..., but you're redirected to a fee-based web site.  For those, just find the info on the person you're looking for..., and go to another web site where ALL US census images are free (but not indexed!):
    Internet Archive.
    Lots of good things on this web site, including scanned books whose copyrights have long since run out, so if you have early ancestors and need a genealogy book about them, the chances of you finding it on Internet AND on Google Books are equally good.  Either way, as long as the copyright is expired, both are free downloads.  You can also view videos that have been released for free viewing, like The Power of Nightmares, for instance.

    As far as census data on the Internet Archive web site, there's a master index, then you have to find the state, then the county and townships.
    There is a US Census every ten years from 1790 forward.  Not a lot of info is found until ca 1850 or so.  1900 forward is a positive goldmine of info.  Caveat:  The accuracy of the records is only as good as the accuracy of the answers of the person who gave the census enumerator the info.  The first thing you'll find is that census enumerators were hired because they knew how to write.  Spelling ability... optional.  You cannot imagine how many alternate ways of spelling common names there are until you start to go through US census data.

    1890 US census:  only the Veteran's Schedules still exist (veterans of the Civil War).  The rest of the 1890 census burned in a fire, but the Veteran's Schedules were kept in a different location so they survived intact.  [Commence crying.  Every serious genealogy researcher weeps for lack of the 1890 census at some point.]

    If you're lucky, you lived in one of the states that did a state census in years ending in 5, and that includes 1885 & 1895.  It almost makes up for the lack of the 1890 census.  Many of those state censuses are indexed and the images are available for a free download on the LDS site.

    Courthouse records, like police records, are "public records."  That means all records there you may look at (except for modern sealed juvenile records - but if the records are old, it might be possible to petition a court to see them).  There are birth, marriage, divorce, and death records - courthouses are where modern "reporters" from rags like Star 'magazine' and the like get the information when petitions are filed and how they know about all the things that end up on gossip shows.  Court cases of all kinds (criminal and civil).  Probate records.  Deeds & plat maps.

    Since courthouses hold "public records," you - as a member of the public - are entitled to see all the records whether they pertain to you or not.  Fees for copies vary.  I always ask for copies of original documents.  They certify them and sell them to me for the higher price of certified documents.  I don't care as long as it's a copy of the original record, not a fill-in-the-blanks certification.  (I had a certified copy of the death info for one of my gr-grandmothers for years.  Missing: cause of death.  A friend went to the courthouse for the county where she died, looked in the old ledger books pre-1900, snapped digital photos with her camera: cause of death was measles.  There was no blank to fill in for cause of death on the certified copy form, so I went for many years not knowing why she died at the young age of 42.)  Yes, you'll soon figure out there's no "long form" and "short form" records.  There's only the ones listed in ledgers (usually pre-1900), and the ones where there's only one record per sheet of paper (after 1900).  Specifics will vary from county to county, but that's the generality for what kind of records to find for births, marriages, divorces, and deaths of ancestors and their siblings.  Yes, research the siblings, too.  Do your research by family unit.  If you lose someone you may be able to find them by researching the life of a sibling.

    Oddly enough, images of some of those courthouse records for a very few counties in a very few states are on the LSD site, and are available for a free download.  I know.  I couldn't believe it either, but I found a few documents for a side lineage I'm researching, downloaded the images, so that saved me a huge amount of money (and headaches in tracking down the said documents since I didn't know where they were in the first place).

    The fee-based web sites are sometimes good, sometimes NOT.  Like everything else, they can be a tool to further your research.  Just don't take everything you find on those web sites as gospel truth.  Even the documents can be wrong.  There really is free information out there that is accurate and useful, even if it's only an index put online by some lovely volunteer who contributed the info to a genealogy web site (Rootsweb, for instance).  It can be a real lifesaver just finding names and dates in an indexed file somewhere.

    Genealogy research in the US is not a cheap hobby, but whatever you do, do NOT use online pedigree information in your documentation thinking someone else has done the research already.  They most likely have not.  Many have only copied someone else's data..., and that means the original data may not be correct or what documents say or the info they publish may be a typo and most assuredly not correct.  You can use someone else's info to potentially point you in the right direction (if they got their facts straight off of documents); just do not use their data.  Get your own documents.  [If you enter the wrong info in your genealogy program, you'll have to delete stuff or correct it, and it's a hassle.  I no longer add info to my database unless I know I have correct data.  I hate, hate, hate having to do corrections!]

    Modern courthouses (in large cities) are a bitch to deal with thanks to the laws that have come about as a result of paranoid Congress Critters did with the Patriot Acts and afterwards.  They went WAY overboard.  (Fact: more 'identity theft' is accomplished by thieves absconding with tossed ads than by anything they can find online on a web site or in old records.  Shred all those credit card solicitations, your bank statements, etc., before putting in the garbage.)  Courthouses in small communities are much easier to deal with.  The people who work at the courthouse where I was born and raised knew me before modern laws.  They know I've been doing genealogy research on my family and people who married into my family all these years..., they don't even bother to ask me to fill out those stupid privacy forms.  I love those particular people for having an abundance of common sense!

    Do not use numbers for dates.  Use day, date, and year, and spell out ALL information in full.  In the US the dates are usually (but not always) listed as month, day, and year.  In Europe the dates are listed as day, month, and year, and they use numbers that way.  You'll soon discover that when the church records list 25/10 '49 and you try to figure out the correct date.  It's 25 October 1849.  Yes, suddenly you have to make sure you have the correct century in the years listed.

    Do not use abbreviations of any kind for any reason (except when transcribing data; then you have to put exactly what someone else wrote; add notes and spell out the abbreviations at the end of the transcription).  If someone runs across your paperwork in two hundred years and the documents you acquired don't come with your basic genealogy info, and they want to duplicate your research, the meaning behind abbreviations may have changed..., or someone in a foreign country will mistake the meaning of an abbreviation.  Spell out everything.  List locations from smallest to largest: (town, if applicable), township, county, state.  [Census data lists Town of___.  That is township.  There's a separate blank for the name of a village, town, city.]

    For women, use the name on their birth certificate and do NOT add her married name.  If you don't know her birth surname, leave the surname space blank.  Nicknames can be listed in the Miscellaneous Information about them.  I hate doing research in the US for the simple reason I lose too many women to married names.  In the Scandinavian countries where I've done so much research for the last few years (Norway and Denmark have their records online for free, thanks to the taxpayers in those countries; Sweden let corporations copy the church records, so they are not free), the patronymic naming system was used until the early 20th century.  Some people in large cities used inheritable surnames before then, even in the countryside by 1900-1910 sometimes, but by how the records are listed, one always knows what the patronymic name will be and women kept their own names their entire lives because of that, so I never lose them to name changes.  Iceland and the Faroe Islands still use the patronymic naming system to this day.  [Yes, a patronymic name and a surname are two entirely different things.  Unless you have Scandinavian ancestors, you probably don't have to worry about it.]

    The above info will get you basic data in the US.

    If you're still lost, KosMail me, list the full names, dates and location of birth of the people you need to find if they are old enough to be listed in the 1930 census or earlier, and I'll see what I can do.  No guarantees if I'll find info, but the worst I can say is 'I don't know.'

    Good Luck.

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:09:00 AM PDT

    •  Wow Nonny (6+ / 0-)

      What a complete guide!

      “that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.” Thomas Jefferson

      by markdd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 01:35:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I could not agree (5+ / 0-)

        more markdd with your Wow. The mere path I read to find my past is in itself intimidating. I am just so glad for all the advise and help I am "at the very moment" getting from a very special Kossack. I know that I just embarked on this complicated task and confusing to boot, I feel confident that good things will find me.

        Old men tell same old stories

        by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:11:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  excellent (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, klompendanser, Jim H, edwardssl

      Could be a diary.

      I want to point out that Ancestry has a genealogy program, i.e. family trees that they provide to users, whether or not you pay for the subscription. Useful to help you fill stuff out. I tried their 2 wk trial recently and one of the cool things about the program was the tips. They lead you to all kinds of records, even pictures, if available, of your ancestors and if you click to accept the tip, it's automatically added to your tree- names, dates, sources, etc. Be sure to check that it matches your ancestor. They don't always match. The tips are for paid subscribers, though.

      Also, to those new their free trial is opt-out, meaning they ask for your credit card or checking information when you sign up for the free trial, and before the end of the two week period, you have to call them to cancel if you don't want to subscribe, otherwise they charge you for a subscription automatically.

      It is better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness.

      by raina on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 05:50:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ancestry stuff... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raina, klompendanser, Jim H, edwardssl

        ... comes with neon-flashing caveats.

        I'm listed as an "editor" for three or four other people whom I offered to help with some of their documentation on Ancestry.

        One of the people is a novice and she keeps adding stuff that hasn't been verified..., much as what happened with so many LDS pedigrees.

        Many years ago when I got my first computer and was first online, I went under the assumption that others got documents..., so what could go wrong if I copied some of their work.  OMG!  I had to backtrack and delete stuff..., and start from scratch.  I no longer put info in my database without a backup document (or, in the case of my New England ancestors, a specific quote from a genealogy book or historical tome that mentions my ancestors, including the ones that debunk the first incorrect info).

        This is why I say one can look at others' work, but without documents, don't include it in your own family tree.  If you hate deleting and correcting info as badly as I do, don't copy anyone else's work.

        I didn't do everything wrong those first weeks of getting my first computer at home.  By sheer dumb luck, I did a Google search for one of my ancestral names (three men in succession, all have the same name with no junior or senior or number tags).  I figured I'd find something.  I hit pay dirt with the middle one.  The family historian who published the genealogy in 1938 noted he was proscribed and banished and mentioned Sabine's Loyalists (first edition; not mentioned in successive editions, I found out).  This fellow in Canada had published the Massachusetts Banishment Act of 1778 online (my middle fellow and the youngest son were on that list; I descend from the eldest son of the same name as the first and middle fellow)..., AND the same fellow had published a book of will abstracts from New Brunswick, and my middle fellow's will was mentioned.  I wrote to the NB archives, got a copy of the will dated 14 May 1798 and copies of the massive number of pages of two deeds wherein my ancestor is mentioned, along with a whole long list of names that reads like a Who's Who of early Massachusetts descendants of the first settlers.

        Then I found Norwegian and Danish transcribed records.  Then each country put microfilm images of their records online going back to the 1600s..., all for free, thanks to the taxpayers in those countries.  I now work from nothing but copies of original documents from those two countries.  To say that I'm spoiled because I work from copies of original documents and transcribed documents done by people who know how to read their own language is a treat the likes of which one can't believe unless it happens to them.

        The LDS site now has free copies of some records from some states..., much to my astonished amazement.  For two counties of those states I've been able to download copies of original documents for ancestors of my sis-in-law.

        Images of Canada's census is also online for free.  I think their government sponsors that one, but I've done some work in their records, too.

        When all else fails, get a throw-away email (yahoo, hotmail, gmail - whatever, as long as it's not your primary email address; you will get spammed) subscribe to a Rootsweb email list for a specific country, state, surname (NOT the message boards - the email lists).  I belong to several, and now that I have some experience with research and have quite a network of other researchers to work with, I can sometimes turn around and help others instead of asking for help for a change.

        It's great fun!

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 06:21:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I recall red & white carnations on Mother's Day (5+ / 0-)

    The church I grew up in even provided boutonnieres for men & boys in the congregation that didn't wear them to Sunday service from home.  But, we didn't have the tradition on Father's Day.

    •  Bingo!! You lit up my (6+ / 0-)

      head with the carnations on Mother`s Day. It was in fact carnations that I meant to describe in my diary. I am sorry for my mistake but eztempo you are correct about the church and religious overtones this tradition still holds.

      The red carnation and white carnations colors as I described still holds as symbolism to our parents lives.

      I just do not understand why the tradition did not apply to ME!! only to Mother.

      What`s up with the church you grew up in??

      I`m just kidding eztempo. Thanks for the reminder

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 01:38:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Looks like our group came to your rescue :-) (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    klompendanser, Jim H, roadbear, raina

    As usual, I'm late to the "party".

    But I see the GFHC group members have done their usual stellar job.  They're pretty amazing.  Make sure you follow their advise, cuz they're spot on.  I don't think I need to add anything further for you at this time, at least not until you've had a chance to do your preliminary work, cuz it can get soooooo overwhelming.

    My only extra piece of advise is to just keep yourself organized; by surname and by location to start.  It'll shock you how quickly your file(s) will grow!

    We have our open thread every Friday, usually around noon eastern.  Please drop by any time, let us know where you're stuck and we'll do what we can.  Or post another diary.  Let us know where you've had success, cuz we get our jollies from research success stories.

    Yeah, we're a little crazy that way .....

  •  Phone books, year books, etc. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim H, raina, klompendanser, edwardssl

    My library (Dallas TX) has extensive collections of old phone books, criss/cross directories, school yearbooks and other stuff from towns and cities all over Texas. If you start getting to the point where some of that might help, I'd be happy to go down there and see what can be found.

    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

    by Catte Nappe on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:04:10 PM PDT

    •  Phone Books probably (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raina, klompendanser, edwardssl

      a bit confusing due to just how old is old. I do not think that a phone book was around in the time I am trying to dig into.

      I do not think, at least I do not recall seeing a telephone or phone book even in 1942 around where I grew up, then it has to follow that phones or phone books were not yet introduced in the 1930`s where my search is pointing to.

      It is nonetheless a very good idea if in a phone book I could find someone who knew my parents. I doubt that a lot.

      Thank you kindly for you comment.

      Old men tell same old stories

      by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:24:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They claim (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raina, klompendanser, Jim H, edwardssl

        Ausitn phone books or city directories

        (1881-1935 microfilm), 1937, 1939, 1950, 1951, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1968, 1978, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1983-84, 1985-86, 1989-90, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1997-98, 1998-99, 1999-00, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009
        San Antonio
        1934, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1942, 1951, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984-85, 1985-86, 1986-87, 1988-89, 1989-90, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1997, 2001, 2005
        Where stuff like that comes in handy is figuring out when people may have moved from one place to another. A household might be in the 1932, 1933, 1934 but not the 1935. Aha! clue they relocated about that time. It also gives you info on what part of town folks were living in - which can lead to what school would kids have attended at that time, or what church.

        from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

        by Catte Nappe on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:40:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Catte Nappe, your (5+ / 0-)

          information is clear proof of my ignorance in tracking my siblings and late parents who lived in the 30`s,. My mother lived until around 71 or 72 and passed away in San Antonio.

          What stumps me is the uncertainty of using a phone book as a guide to other members of my family tree. I will try to find a phone book with San Antonio origin at the time my mother was alive and I recall that in fact, she had a phone.

          Old men tell same old stories

          by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:58:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm nowhere near an expert (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            raina, klompendanser, Jim H, edwardssl

            And you are getting some really, really expert support from some of the DKos genealogists. I have watched a serious researcher work through some complicated family trees over years, though. I remember "helping" my Dad do research at a local library when I was about 10. He's still digging away and obscure branches, fifty years later. You pull one thread and see where it goes - maybe somewhere, maybe nowhere.

            If you know where the family, including your siblings, lived the earliest time you knew anything about them you can use phone books to figure out where they lived at that time and how long they stayed at that location. Does that provide clues on what schools the kids attended - especially at HS age? Maybe there's still a yearbook out there giving their future plans, maybe they returned for reunions and shared info about their adult lives.  So there may be ways to track forward from the "then", to closer to the "now"

            Going the other way, if you can find your mom shortly before she passed away, there may still be memories in the neighborhood.  In some small towns, or old neighborhoods, home owners are the same, or descendants of, those who lived there 20, 30, 40 years ago. Somebody vaguely remembers that their mom lived next door to another older lady who had adult kids and grand kids who sometimes came to visit from.........Ft. Worth? Shreveport? New Braunfels?  Who knows.

            It's like putting a jig-saw puzzle together. Art and science and luck.

            from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

            by Catte Nappe on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 05:03:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are so true (4+ / 0-)

              Catte Nappe. And completely supportive and encouraging.
              I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I am getting very
              accurate help from "I must assume" one of the aces here
              at Dkos on genealogists.

              I am now informed that my grandparents apparent census
              information has come to light, and it included my aunts and uncles who lived with them during the 1900`s.

              True I am getting awesome help and I will continue giving
              my searcher all information that may lead to the successful termination of developing this complicated family tree.

              Thank you Catte Nappe. Thank you for keeping me company here today.

              Old men tell same old stories

              by Ole Texan on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 05:42:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Hey, glad to support and cheer on (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                klompendanser, Jim H, edwardssl

                If nothing else.
                Born in San Antonio myself, and returned here decades later to live in Dallas. Just one "getting older Texan" caring about the quest of another "Ole Texan".

                from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

                by Catte Nappe on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 05:56:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  the 1900 census is so cool... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Jim H, edwardssl

                the "nosy" questions asked included exact dates of birth, how many children a woman had and how many were still alive, and whether the man had served in the military (if yes that means there are military records at the National Archives!). Earlier census questions include whether land was owned or rented ... if owned, there has to be deeds and plat maps, and plat maps show who lived next door. Once you break down a little bit of the wall, information sometimes explodes in a lot of different directions.

                "If you are sure you understand everything that is going on around you, you are hopelessly confused." Walter Mondale

                by klompendanser on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 07:09:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  I'd say try to find a copy of your parent's obits (0+ / 0-)

            they would list living kin and likely their locations. Check the Social Security death index to see when and where they died. That is free, I believe at familysearch.

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