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That is what some of us are saying.  Let's be realistic.  Is there a reason that we don't have hardcore progressives running out talking about changing the government and making the nation immensely different?  Yes, the reason is independents.  You don't win independents by saying that you want to overhaul the government and make it radically different.  You don't win elections without the independents.  Just because the teabaggers went off the rails doesn't mean that we have to in the opposite direction!  People get scared when they start hearing radicalism and a will to do things overnight... That is why there aren't many people saying that they want to start making things happen radically different overnight.  That is why a lot of democrats aren't gung ho, "Let's reshape the nation." all of the time.  It is becaus you scare away independents and lose elections by saying that.  We need to start appeal to independents and moderates to highlight the problems with the right.  The problem with the right right are their extremists.  By being the ones who seem stable and sane, we have power.  If we start talking about things that scare people, too, we lose.

I know people are scared about the drones and all of that, but it doesn't get better with the other side in power.  This is one of the few areas that they don't even contend with Obama.  Independents are likely more scared of terrorists than a lot of us.  After 9/11, we can't run as a party that isn't as tough on terror as the other side.  People have been scarred for years to come, and that is why it is best that we have someone who seems pretty compassionate deciding when it is okay to pull the trigger instead of Romney who doesn't care about anyone who isn't rich enough to bankroll his campaign.

If you want to stand up against Citizens United, then fight against the man who is being bankrolled by Citizens United SuperPacs.  Make sure the guy that is trying to appeal to everyday people wins, insetead of the guy who avoids us like we are parasites.

If you don't see a reason to vote, you are saying since you don't see anything on the menu that gives you everything you want, you will eat shit and be completely silent about it.

I don't know about you, but I have a whole hell of a lot to lose in this election.  I am a part of the LGBT community with my fiance, and I am someone who relies on some type of immigration reform to keep one of the best parts of my life here.  The President seems like he is trying for that.  If you don't vote for Democrats to try and see what is possible with enough positions to do beat a fillibuster, you are willing republicans to rule this nation.  I can't afford that because the price is what I love.  I wish everyone saw, the way I see, the value of not losing everything we have gained since we got rid of Bush.

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Comment Preferences

  •  hardcore progressives (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    are independents? Not sure about that.

  •  I revised to make it more clear. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Nah. It's not like that (3+ / 0-)

    I like Obama, but I do disagree with some of his positions. I'm going to vote for him and I don't see him as the lesser of two evils BUT-

    It's like this. Obama's a hamburger and Romney's excrement. No, I don't want the excrement, but I'd rather have a steak than a hamburger. So I push for the steak, knowing that sometimes I'll get the best prime rib on the market. Other times I'll just get a hamburger. Sometimes I get a crappy McDonald's hamburger, sometimes I get a better one.

    That doesn't mean that I should eat the McD's burger  because, well, it could be worse. I'll just pass on the burger because I know there is better and I don't have to settle for a highly processed piece of "meat."

    And if I HAD settled for, say, the McD's burger I was getting on LGBT equality, that's all I would have gotten. Instead I said, you know what, I don't like this burger and I'm not going to eat it. I deserve better.

    And when I did that, I ended up with a pretty juicy steak. It's still not the best on the market but it's a hell of a lot better than I would've gotten if I had settled.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:45:37 AM PDT

  •  Capturing the "mushy middle" is always the (5+ / 0-)

    problem in our elections. It's the logical extension of the "winner take all" elections. Toss in the power of money and the two sides have both tipped towards appeasing corporate America over actual American citizens.

    Now, having said that it's not just the independants that decide the election, it's the 35-40% who sit on their asses and don't vote. Most of those voters are likely D voters, or would be if the Democratic party embraced the needs of actual people. So maybe the Democrats could suffer losing some independent votes if they found a way to motivate more non-voters.

    All my sig lines are hand-crafted by demented elves living in my skull.

    by ontheleftcoast on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:48:55 AM PDT

  •  Lets see. They caved on the key fiscal issues and (0+ / 0-)

    handed the keys to the treasury to the Wall and browbeat the left for the first 3 years.  Now that they realize that they are in trouble with the base they are throwing us a few scraps.

    So I think many of us are saying that you'll reluctantly get our votes if by not casting them we end up worth a worse alternative.

  •  I'd be happy with pot roast at this point. nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xxdr zombiexx, tardis10, PhilJD
  •  And then what do you do (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    when they serve you shit and call it a filet?

  •  Independants are not (4+ / 0-)

    all that you think. They independents because they are not partisan. They do not necessarily support the 'status quo' which is highly partisan. I disagree the indies I know are not as afraid of either party and tend to want to throw the bums out.

    When I canvased for Obama's campaign they were enthusiastic about 'change', skeptical but definitely in favor of radical reform. They asked about policy and issues.  Indie's numbers increase when voters both D and R's are totally disillusioned by both sides corruption and they offer nothing but fear of the other and implement the same agenda under the guise of better then.

    If anything they are the least likely to not vote out of fear of changing or overhauling the system that they have in a sense rejected 'as they are all bums'. The Dems blew it with indies as pulling a bait and switch on these voters who have no use for party loyalty and view the whole kabuki show with an eye that's not as partisan and actually more pragmatic, won't work.

    Ideology and empty rhetoric is not going to sway them as they seem much more likely to vote on what is being done then on fear or unbelievable kabuki. Nobody likes what's being done these days and most voters would be happy to have that 'change' that the majority voted for in 2006-08.  

    They are more aware then partisan's of what's excrement and whats worth eating. If you read the polls on issues which is how they decide, the Indies weigh in as diversely as everyone else. They are the fastest growing political group and it''s not because they fear progressive change or are big fans of the staus quo.

    The myth that they are low information is absurd also. They just don't buy the double speak, propaganda and the fear both sides pump out. I would say they are more result motivated, no matter where they fall in our bogus fictitious left, center, right, spectrum.

    Three members of my family are indies. One used to be Repuplican as she grew up in a conservative logging family. As a young adult she rejected this and became a Democrat. She became dissolution with their refusal to fight the bushies and now is a registered indie. She's writing in Bernie Saunders as Obama  blew it with his war policy and bankster agenda.  The other two indies are both former Democrat's who could not hack the corporate corrupt DLC end that took over the party with Clinton.

    My point is that indies like all voters are not cowardly centrist's who are afraid of change. They are also not low information or pig ignorant. They just don't buy the party lines, double speak, fear or kabuki.      

  •  You vote your issues and I'll vote mine (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Since you have no trouble identifying your own core values and issues I don't know why you have such a hard time understanding that the rest of us are passionate about our own.

  •  The diary starts with faux news reasoning (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chipmo, tardis10, PhilJD

    using the infamous "some say".  And continues from there with analogy instead of reasoned arguments, and feelings rather than facts.

    Who are these people saying this and how many of them are there?  If it's 6 people on a blog, nobody cares.

    What are these scary things that liberals want that send independents screaming away from pulling the D lever?

    It can't be things like single-payer, an end to the wars, dumping the tax cut for the 1%, gay marriage, etc.  All those things have been shown to have strong favorable majorities in national polls.  How exactly do you feel that progressives are "going off the rails in the other direction"?

    What the hell does this "filet mignon" actually consist of?  Is there an army of liberals out there that I'm unaware of, storming the gates asking for 600% increases in SS and free college tuition?

  •  How is this diary different (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    from your last one?

    Who do you think your audience is here?  Because if you somehow think that repeating the same shrill, substanceless screed that ignores and dismisses the issues that give consternation to the critics of Obama is a way to win, you don't know shit about how to influence people.

    Frankly, the Republicans should pay you to push fence-sitters away from voting for Obama.

    “America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind.” ~Peter Kropotkin

    by chipmo on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:49:03 PM PDT

  •  Maybe I expect too much from some people. (0+ / 0-)

    Let's let Republicans have America and see how it turns out seems to be the dominant opinion of some.  Your dream is that progressive mushrooms will grow out of the piles of shit the republicans leave behind.  I can't stand hearing that mantra because it is so stupid and it will never work.

    •  Get the Democratic Party to support (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Current Social Security And Medicare benefits and you have my vote.  I am not asking the party to move left only to refuse to move further right.  You expect your issues to be supported.  Support mine.

      •  I agree. (0+ / 0-)

        I hope we get what we want.  I just tremble at the thought of 4 years of Romney and Ryan shaping our financial planning.  Between the two of them there isn't an ounce of compassion, and they could do a whole lot of damage.  Rubio and Romney on immigration is the same way.  Across the board, there could be massive damage from their new W (Willard).

        I agree with what you want.  I just worry that if we lose this election, Social Security and Medicare will be destroyed and seem like the icing on the cake.

    •  Again, who are you talking to? (0+ / 0-)

      Who are you trying to convince.

      OH YOU'RE NOT!

      You are just throwing pie.

      Seriously, you should be kicked off the site, not for your views, but because you are working to destroy the community.

      “America is just the country that shows how all the written guarantees in the world for freedom are no protection against tyranny and oppression of the worst kind.” ~Peter Kropotkin

      by chipmo on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 03:38:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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