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I’ve been engaging in correspondence with someone, apparently a Libertarian but definitely right wing, on one of my blog posts.  He raised the possibility of a Libertarian candidate possibly winning the presidential election in a close race.  That kind of statement shows how little people who think they’re Libertarians understand politics and what politicians who claim they’re Libertarians are.

Libertarian politicians are liars and hypocrites.  Take Ron and Rand Paul—please.  Both claim to be Libertarian yet both are dues-paying members of the Republican Party, which is as anti-Libertarian as a party can be, unless it’s the Democratic Party.  Republicans hate social welfare but are big on corporate welfare, which is funded by taxpayers who are Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, whatever.

Back to Ron and Rand Paul, who are both members of Congress and as such, receive free taxpayer-paid government healthcare as part of their perks.  These are two men who demand that Medicaid and Medicare be eliminated because people should either be responsible for their own healthcare plans or die.  Yet, neither of these men have refused their taxpayer-paid government healthcare plans and insisted on diverting the taxpayer-paid funds back into the U.S. Treasury. Liars and hypocrites.

Ron and Rand Paul, who are both members of Congress, are entitled to receive a lifetime taxpayer-paid government pension after they leave office, if they have spent (I will not say “served”) a minimum of five years in office.  So, if Rand were to serve only one six-year Senate term, he collects his taxpayer-paid government pension after he turns 62.  Where else but in Congress could one receive a government pension for a short-term temp job?  Neither of these men have refused to be included in the taxpayer-paid government pension plan. Yet, they both demand Social Security either be eliminated or privatized because people should be responsible for their own retirement or starve and die.  Except for Ron and Rand Paul.  Liars and hypocrites.

The Pauls believe that if something is worth doing it’s worth doing it yourself, kind of, with help from your local community.  Let’s put some reality into this fantasy.  Both Pauls had medical practices (they had to practice because they never got it right) ensconced in medical buildings.  It is unknown whether they were situated on the ground floor or forced their wheelchair-bound patients—if they accepted any—to surmount or descend several flights of stairs.  Undoubtedly, public roads directed patients to the Paul’s offices.  Public roads are maintained through tax dollars, paid by people who pay taxes so their local governments can maintain public roads and infrastructure.  But the Pauls don’t believe in paying taxes to maintain public roads and infrastructure.  Roads get potholes. Roads crack. Roads need maintenance or they can no longer direct patients to medical offices run by Ron and Rand Paul. So, if potholes developed in those public roads leading to or outside the Pauls’ medical offices, how would they handle repairing them? Being Libertarians, they should call on their fellow business owners and pass the hat around to pay to hire a road crew to fix the road. That’s the Libertarian way—taking care of things yourself and with your community.  Or, being business owners and Republicans, do they call their city council or county board of supervisors rep—or even the mayor county executive—and demand the road by fixed by a city or county road crew at taxpayer expense? You can bet they’re on the horn pressuring the politicians to plug the potholes.  Liars and hypocrites.

Every single public opinion poll shows that while small groups of fools will elect a faux Libertarian to Congress, no national majority will put one in the White House because we all see through their lies and hypocrisy.  Libertarianism may work in a small unincorporated community, but never on a national or even a municipal level.  This country is not a small remote village founded on some desolate outpost.  We’re a bit more than a population of forty people.  The “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” barter system only works on the frontier and in Congress (well, it used to work in Congress).

So anyone, like my Libertarian/right wing correspondent who truly believes in the possibility of a President Ron or Rand Paul is a complete fool and sees American politics through the spectrum of his own skewed ideology.  

Show me a Libertarian dreaming of starting a business who would reject a taxpayer-paid government-subsidized low-interest SBA loan he qualifies for, and I’ll show you a fictional character.  Libertarians aren’t even Libertarians; they’re Republicans.  Liars and hypocrites.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Not true (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Your claim that Rand Paul says he is a Libertarian is out and out false.  I don't like the man's stands, for example that he is an antiabortionist, but I will give him respect enough to get his political quadrant right.

    "They thought all along that they could call me a libertarian and hang that label around my neck like an albatross, but I'm not a libertarian," [Rand] Paul says between Lasik surgeries at his medical office, where his campaign is headquartered, with a few desks crammed between treatment rooms.
    Ron Paul's claims to be a libertarian are also rotten.  The man is an evolution denier, a global warming denier, a Christian dominionist, a homophobic bigot opposed to gay marriage, an antiabortionist who would want to give reactionary states the opportunity that they would take to ban all abortions, and I could go on.

    Having said that, I am old enough to remember 1972 Democrats sure that McGovern would win, 1996 Republicans sure that Dole would win, and news that there are Libertarians who would think that Gary Johnson might win ("twice the executive experience* of Rmoney, half the price** of Obama") should not be surprising.  Normal Libertarian overoptimism is 7%.  Democratic Libertarian overoptimism is "7%, and mostly from Republicans".

    *period in office as Governor
    **estimated planned first budget

    Are Libertarians Republican?  Lets see, Libertarians support
         End all foreign wars, including Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, our recent invasion of Uganda...
        End draft registration
        End NSA spying on your email and phone calls, without a warrant, and try those involved
        End the war on drugs, completely, and pardon all Federal drug criminals
        Repeal DOMA, give full Federal recognition to all marriages
        Cut the Defense budget 40 or 80 per cent.
        Equal rights under the law for all, e.g, allow GLBTQ couples to adopt (yes, in DC that is a Federal issue)

    I think these issues will sell poorly to Republicans.

    We can have change for the better.

    by phillies on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 09:39:38 AM PDT

    •  The problem (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      volleyboy1, SethRightmer

      is not that SOME of them support "equal rights under the law", the problem is that ALL of them support letting corporations and states preventing you from having those rights.

      This utter and complete BULLSHIT about "federal rights" is just a ruse to let states and corporations take your rights away without having any federal protection.

      It is not that they support "ending the draft" and "foreign wars"...  but that the REASON they support those things is that they don't believe in the government helping ANYONE for ANY reason.

      It is a silly, infantile ideology, bereft of a moral center or justice.

    •  Matter of perspective, I think… (0+ / 0-)

      or couching it all in different terms.

      I see libertarians as essentially "small government" taken to extremes. Everything on your list (with the exception of your citation of DOMA, which I believe needs to be parsed into two phrases to accurately reflect the libertarian position) is absolutely small government.

      It's sort of like taking the next step on each item by adding "because" and then following up on it. Here's how I would flesh out your list:

      End all foreign wars…   period. Small government
      End draft registration Small government
      End NSA spying on your email and phone calls period. Small government
      End the war on drugs, completely period. I'm not so sure pardoning is part of their platform, except insofar as reducing the federal inmate population promotes small government
      Repeal DOMA period. I don't believe a proactive recognition of all marriages satisfies the small government argument
      Cut the Defense budget 40 or 80 per cent. totally small government
      Equal rights under the law for all to a libertarian, no particular rights recognized = equal rights. totally small government.
      allow GLBTQ couples to adopt (parsed from above) to a libertarian, not prohibiting = permitting. totally small government
      In my opinion, libertarianism is just the ultimate expression of conservatism. Frankly, I hope the libertarians do put up their own candidate.

      P.S. please excuse the crude appearance of that table. I'm an experienced HTML/CSS coder, but DK4 does not render CSS necessarily well, nor a lot of HTML. Sorry.

    •  No True Scottsman fallacy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      You seem quite selective about who you will admit are members of your libertarian club. If they do not follow your ideals, they are no true libertarians. Well, that's the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Libertarian ideology must be judged on the people it attracts, on the people who claim to be libertarian. It is not logical to hold up a definition for libertarianism that excludes most of those who claim to be libertarian.

      The issues you list, for example, are not universally accepted by those who claim to be libertarian. Yes, I get that you feel they are not libertarians. But that is not what the rest of us think. And your name isn't Miriam-Webster, so you don't get to define what words mean.

      And you fail to list many libertarian issues that aren't quite so popular with liberals. Police, fire departments, schools and libraries would all be privatized in a libertarian system. Roads would all be toll roads. Welfare would be handled by private donation, meaning plenty of free riders would benefit from having poor people taken care of, without helping pay for it. Because poor people don't just go off and die when they have no options. They fight back.

      Obviously, medical care would be privatized in a libertarian system, and we can plainly see by looking at ourselves and the rest of the world, that a privatized system fails where socialized medicine succeeds.

      Environmental regulations would go right out the door, too. Don't like pollution? Take the polluter to court, if you can afford it. I'm sure any number of lawyers would be willing to take your case pro bono, after all, going up against a huge corporation with a bottomless legal war chest is a good bet, right?

      Worker safety laws would also be abolished. Don't like the conditions? Go work somewhere else. Hurt on the job? Again, hope you can afford a lawyer. Children would once again have good employment prospects starting from the age they can work a sewing machine, say five or so.

      Libertarians ARE hypocrites. All of you have the option of leading a true libertarian lifestyle in lovely, sunny Somalis right this very minute, but surprisingly, not one of you has moved there. Probably because you feel you "deserve better." Well, I say, you get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay the cost of living in this society, go sell your skills on the international free market, I'm sure many other countries could give you a better deal, right?

      •  What happens when we have a government (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        taking from the common and giving to the wealthy and well connected, kind of like what we got, in this case libertarian is very liberal.

        •  Baby with the bathwater syndrome (0+ / 0-)

          Government is a tool, like a knife. It can serve you well, but bad men can take it from you and use it against you. The answer is not to ban knives. The answer is to take your knife back from the bastard that took it from you. So don't throw the government baby out with the corruption bathwater.

          Liberals want to take the knife back from the bastard that took it from us. Libertarians want to ban knives. What these idiots don't realize is that the bad man has a knife of his own. He doesn't need our knife to threaten us. If we get rid of knives, he's not going to listen. We'll get rid of the one thing that could have protected us from him, a strong government, and he'll be back.

          This all seems so simple and straightforward to me, I find it hard to believe libertarians can't see it. In fact, I think they know full well what the consequences are. But they think they will be the bastard with the knife. Libertarians want to get rid of government so THEY can be the ones who oppress others. However, 99% of them are dead wrong. They will be there with the rest of us, bent over a barrel and spreading our cheeks for the owning class. It's cold comfort knowing they will be just as fucked as the rest of us, but maybe I can get in an "I told you so" as we toil together in corporate serfdom.

  •  While neither Rand nor Ron (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    my best example of hypocritical Libertarian is my neighbor who never held a private-sector job in his life.  He went from Army (and still gets a 40%-service related disability check monthly) to an IT position with a state university - been there 30 years now - after 6 months of trying to free lance and not making a living at it, even with the monthly disability check.  But it's OK for him - he "earned it"!  Yeah, right.  And nobody else did/does?  

  •  Show me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    a "Libertarian" that votes for the Libertarian candidate.

    Not one of these Paulbot "Libertarians" is planning on voting for Gary Johnson - the Libertarian candidate.

    What they really are, IMHO, are a group of greedy RWers that want to excuse their unwillingness to participate in the funding of the society they live in and benefit from by molding a "philosophy" around it.

    What this really is is the politics of greed.  They got theirs, forget everyone else.  Just ask Ron himself.  He collects Social Security.

    The only real difference between the Ron Paul "Libertarians" and the GOP is that they don't want to fund the military.  And they do want to smoke pot.


    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    by Bcre8ve on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 10:34:46 AM PDT

  •  When corporations own both parties (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    libertarians are clearly very liberal.

    It is all relative.

    If we had a liberal Democratic Party, which we don't, then Democrats would be more liberal than libertarians.

    •  But corporations own libertarians, too (0+ / 0-)

      In fact, corporations want less government, with no pesky regulations, so libertarians are more in line with their desires than either major party. That is why the Koch brothers fund libertarians. Libertarians are not classical liberals. When classical liberals wanted "less government," the government they were talking about was absolute monarchy. Which is why our founding fathers replaced it with a liberal constitutional democracy, not a libertarian laissez-faire system. We have a "limited government" in the original, classical liberal sense.

      •  Which libertarian does the Koch brothers fund? (0+ / 0-)
        •  Jeebus, man, you can't use Google? (0+ / 0-)

          Just plug "koch fund libertarian" into Google and see what comes up, I'm not your research assistant and I'm not here to school you on common knowledge. I don't have the time to list all the libertarian institutions they fund. How about you find me one, one single institution they don't fund, hmm? That would be easier. To start you off, they do fund the Cato Institute and Americans for Prosperity, so don't bother listing those. And of course they fund the American Libertarian Party. So that's out. Maybe, somewhere out there, there is a libertarian institution that is not wholly owned by big money, but I've yet to see it.

          You know those rich bastards are all laughing at people like you, right? Sucker.

          •  Which libertarian candidate do they fund? (0+ / 0-)
            •  All of them (0+ / 0-)

              Seriously? You really need to ask this question? If the Koch brothers fund the American Libertarian Party (which they do, enormously) then they fund all candidates. Duh.

              •  I know Ron Paul was not getting any real (0+ / 0-)

                corporate support.  

                But we aren't allowed to discuss him here.

                And I did google the libertarian party and the Koch's have not supported them since 1980.

                Corporations control our government.  There is no way that they want true libertarians so that they will lose this control.

                •  Ron Paul gets Koch support (0+ / 0-)

                  It's not corporate, they aren't that dumb. Post Citizens United, how would you know anyhow? But what I really mean is, the institutes that shape American Libertarian thought, and the people who get airtime, are all corporate stooges. Corporate masters would like nothing more than a libertarian regime change. We've fought them for every regulation we've put in place. In Libertopia, the strong eat the weak. They are the strong, you and I are the weak. They may have captured the machinery of regulation, but the answer to that problem is not less regulation, it's to throw the bums out.

    •  It is just so pathetic and so true. (0+ / 0-)
  •  I thought the diary would be about Libertarianism. (0+ / 0-)

    Instead, it is about the Pauls.

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