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Mitt Romney
(Joshua Lott/Reuters)
By now, I suspect you may have already read about the Washington Post's explosive new story about the extent to which Mitt Romney's Bain Capital "invested in a series of firms that specialized in relocating jobs done by American workers to new facilities in low-wage countries like China and India." This might be good news for John McCain, but it's definitely not good news for Romney, which is why I'm so tickled by his response:
"This is a fundamentally flawed story that does not differentiate between domestic outsourcing versus offshoring nor versus work done overseas to support U.S. exports. Mitt Romney spent 25 years in the real world economy so he understands why jobs come and they go," Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul said. "As president, he will implement policies that make it easier and more attractive for companies to create jobs here at home. President Obama's attacks on profit and job creators make it less attractive to create jobs in the U.S."
Oh, that's priceless. Mitt Romney wasn't one of those evil offshore-ers—he was just a perfectly fine and dandy outsourcer! Totally different! A well-supported argument that I'm sure will drive a stake through the this dastardly hatchet job, right? Politico's Alexander Burns:
That’s the extent of the Romney campaign’s on-record response.
Or... not. And in any event, Romney can feebly attempt to dance the polka on the head of this very tiny pin, but he's still wrong, because the WaPo's extensively-researched piece includes plenty of examples of American jobs being shipped overseas, like this one:
Bain’s foray into outsourcing began in 1993 when the private equity firm took a stake in Corporate Software Inc., or CSI, after helping to finance a $93 million buyout of the firm. CSI, which catered to technology companies like Microsoft, provided a range of services including outsourcing of customer support. Initially, CSI employed U.S. workers to provide these services but by the mid-1990s was setting up call centers outside the country.
Dance faster, Mitt! Dance!

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Comment Preferences

  •  Does that make him a pin-head? (20+ / 0-)


    As of 02/22/2012 in Washington State pharmacists can exercise their "religious freedom" by denying women access to Plan B because the judge thinks there aren't any bigots in this state.

    by FlamingoGrrl on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:19:39 AM PDT

  •  Well. (9+ / 0-)

    At least he didn't pantomime throwing down a smoke bomb, scream "You can't see me!", and then run off.

    Though- doing that would have been much more logical and easier to understand than trying to split off-[insert verb] hairs.

    Democracy is often an indictment of the voting populace.

    by electricgrendel on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:19:57 AM PDT

  •  I think I'm in love! (20+ / 0-)

    I'm in love with the idea of running against a Republican Party that's staking everything on the distinction between moving a job from the US to India and not even bothering to consider the US for that job in the first place.


    Romney '12: Bully for America!

    by Rich in PA on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:21:45 AM PDT

  •  The Article also Says: (20+ / 0-)

    Bain provided expert consultants who helped companies outsource to overseas locations.  All done while Mitt ran the show!

  •  Hard to know what's my favorite part... (17+ / 0-)

    Is it that Mittens is going to get beaten like a rented mule by the media over this issue, or is it that the meme "job creators" will finally have a stake driven through its evil heart.

    Either way, I'm loving this.

  •  It's all part of the self deportation plan (10+ / 0-)

    When he's eliminated all the jobs in the U.S., immigrants won't be able to find a job and they'll have to go home.

    Hopefully, they'll be more receptive to all the Americans who will have to follow them as the Americans also look for a job.  

    •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

      Careful what you wish for.  Highly skilled workers may decide to 'export' themselves to countries that appreciate their skills more.  It's not personal - it's just business.

      'Osama Bin Ladien is still dead and GM is still alive' - Joe Biden "Dems kill terrorist. The GOP keeps them around as a boogeyman - so they can continue to steel."

      by RichM on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:11:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Now we see just why Bain is Mitt's Achilles heel (16+ / 0-)

    Ted Kennedy knew it in 1994 and nothing has changed. While at Bain, Mitt represented everything that everyone hates about coporate economics. It's why, to borrow Mike Huckabee's classic phrase, he "looks like the guy who fired you." Because that was his job.

  •  Romney has proven he knows how to create (9+ / 0-) Asia.

    The people have spoken and they're both named Koch. - Andy Borowitz

    by Red Bean on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:29:24 AM PDT

  •  H-larious this is: (11+ / 0-)
    Mitt Romney understands why jobs come and they go
     Mitt also understands that some trees in some states are the right height, that corporations are people too, that cookies from 7-Eleven are yucky, and that he would've saved the US auto industry, too...just in a better way.

    "I don’t wear no Stetson, but I’m willin’ to bet, son, that I’m a bigger Texan than you are".- Robert Earl Keen

    by Kellybee on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:30:12 AM PDT

  •  TPM is reporting Glenn Kessler, the WaPo's (14+ / 0-)

    "fact-checker" is standing by his four pinocchios for an Obama ad attacking Romney for outsourcing jobs.  Even though the WaPo story on outsourcing cites much of the same evidence as the Obama ad!

    Kessler, your name is mud!

    Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
    ¡Boycott Arizona!

    by litho on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:31:26 AM PDT

    •  HAHAHAHa!!!! (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      roadbear, RichM, chrismorgan, askew, Gorette

      First -- anyone who comes up with the Pinocchio concept is an infantile moran -- and

      Second -- oh, I guess the guy is still an infantile moran because he doesn't read his own paper.  

      WaPo is an embarrassment on so many levels.

      Vi er alle norske " My faith in the Constitution is whole; it is complete; it is total." Barbara Jordan, 1974

      by gchaucer2 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:51:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't forget (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theKgirls, JeffW

    His church contributions trying to go through the 'eye' of same needle!

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:34:03 AM PDT

  •  Depends which crowd he is addressing n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  "Obama's attacks..." she says, created the (12+ / 0-)

    atmosphere that caused it to be less attractive to hire U.S. workers. Ha! His reach back into the 90's with political clout is mind blowing; as is the not outsourcing outsourcing Romney managed over this span. (Too bad O's mystic powers were suspended during the Bush years when outsourcing flourished...)
    This Bain business cannot have too much time in the public eye IMO. Pound it. Pound it, Dems.
    "Conservatives" claim to be patriots and outsourcing doesn't comport well with their self image.

  •  And Romney is a (10+ / 0-)

    money taker, not a money maker. Let's get it right, people!

    Romney - 2012 - He's A Trooper!

    by kitebro on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:36:49 AM PDT

  •  Jobs go in, jobs go out, never a miscommunication. (5+ / 0-)

    "You can't explain that. You can't explain it."

    Willard Romney: all the bullshit of Mitt with none of the charm.

    by here4tehbeer on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:36:59 AM PDT

  •  Mitt doesn't speak English (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theKgirls, JeffW, sawgrass727

    His words Sound like English, But they are NOT.

    Mitt Speaks the "Wretch-A-Sketch" Language.

    In the "Wretch-A-Sketch" Language, Words mean
    Whatever Mitt WANTS those words to mean.

    Word Meanings Can change, Often in Mid Sentence.

    Anyone attempting to QUOTE Mitt is Automatically Taking
    Mitt's "Wretch-A-Sketch" words Out of Context.

    On Giving Advice: Smart People Don't Need It and Stupid People Don't Listen

    by Brian76239 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:39:56 AM PDT

    •  Romneyspeak (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      This is a fundamentally flawed story...
      ...should be translated as....
      This is a fundamental story that reveals Romney's flaws....
      If I were a cartoonist, I'd draw a picture of Romney's spokespeople with their fingers stuck in their ears and saying, "Nyah, nyah, nyah, I can't hear you" in response to questions that they don't want to answer.
  •  Voters don't get "nuance", remember, Willard? (8+ / 0-)

    At least that's what Republicans have done.  short--

    People will only hear "Outsourced jobs to China"

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:40:03 AM PDT

  •  If Obama has attacked "profit," (16+ / 0-)

    why are corporate profits at an all-time high?

    Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07.

    by anastasia p on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:40:30 AM PDT

    •  That just shows you how (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chrismorgan, Gorette

      underhanded he is.  He is creating situations that force the corporations to make more profit just so he can attack them for the profits.  Is there no end to his evilness?

      "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

      by newfie on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:21:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  That "jobs come and go" line (9+ / 0-)

    Really sounds bad, at least to my ear. Yet they keep using it.

    I wonder what focus group is telling them it's a winner. Luntz must be drinking or something.

    We're through being cool. Eliminate the ninnies and the twits. -- Devo

    by Woodrow Stool on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:41:04 AM PDT

  •  nice try Mittens (11+ / 0-)

    Outsourcing means offshoring, those of us in the IT world understand that all too well. Of course the amusing thing is I've had to work on/fix tons of things that companies thought would be cheaper to have done over-seas. The end result? They still have to pay me a decent wage here in the U.S. to fix/maintain the crap which costs more than doing it right the first time.

    Sarcasm: It beats killing people...

    by Dreggas on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:42:15 AM PDT

    •  Agreed (5+ / 0-)

      I work it IT as well, and we are constantly fixing problems related to 'outsourced' (oops - off-shored) software development.  Aside from the fact that it takes American jobs, it also often costs companies purchasing the software a great deal of resources to correct the errorts.  Since there is often a language gap, there is usually a middle-man, or series of them, involved in a project, and the requirements are often misinterpreted.  And then they need to be fixed, schedules delayed, etc.  Offshored development has not resulted so much in savings for companies buying software.

      •  And what REALLY twists the knife in the back (0+ / 0-)

        I'm another person who works IT, & my work  consists of contract work. (I'd like to get a permanent, full-time job that I don't need to drive across town to get to, but that's another tale for another time.) So I get a lot of cold calls from recruiters for various contracts.

        I noticed a troubling trend a few years ago. An increasing share of these calls are from people with Indian names & accents -- recruiting me for a job in my own country!

        Just how freaking hard is it to hire someone in the US who is willing to match people to jobs & make phone calls? Especially when unemployment is so high?

        FWIW, I don't even bother to deal with these foreigners. I'd rather work with someone who's here in this country for work in this country. From what I've heard, nor does anyone else.

  •  Never refer to offshoring as "exporting jobs" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hohenzollern, JeffW, Gorette

    Admittedly off-topic, since the diarist did not make such a reference.  Even so, "exporting jobs" nearly always comes up when offshoring is the subject, and casts a flattering light on the practice.

    Instead, offshoring is essentially importing cheap labor from abroad.

    The objection should be that since offshoring destroys jobs here, is akin to "dipping into capital", regarded in old-money circles as an abomination of the worst sort.  

    •  I disagree. (4+ / 0-)

      The job I used to do was "outsourced" to the Philippines.
      The job I used to do is now done "offshore".
      My job was exported.
      Nobody was imported to do it.

      There is nothing flattering about the term "offshoring", IMHO; especially when you've had the experience of having your job "outsourced" "offshore".

      •  I caught a marlin (0+ / 0-)

        just off shore.  See - offshoring is like deep sea fishing.

        "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

        by newfie on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:23:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What's flattering is the term "Export" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The term has long referred in economics or commerce to goods sent "out of the country" in direct exchange for something of value.  This is a traditional source of national wealth.  Even Japan or Great Britain were net exporters in this sense, because they added value to their vast imports of raw materials.

        Etymologically you are correct that your job was "exported", along with millions of others.  But if it were an export in the normal sense, you and everyone else would have been paid the value of the job.

        In a neutral sense, it would be equivalent, but less flattering to say that the old employer now imports cheap labor by having it done abroad.  To describe it in realistic terms, it would be even better to say that the old employer violated the social contract by stealing the job, fencing it, and keeping the cash with minimal benefit to anyone else or to society as a whole.

    •  No diff, both send work Americans could do elsewhe (0+ / 0-)

      re, so American's don't get paid for it... and corps sit on $ 2 trillion and wonder why there's no demand.

  •  Mitt is a pin-head regardless. nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theKgirls, JeffW

    God be with you, Occupiers. God IS with you.

    by Hohenzollern on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:45:59 AM PDT

  •  I wouldn't call it "dancing." (7+ / 0-)

    I'd call it squirming.

  •  He isn't going to create any 'jobs' (7+ / 0-)

    As president, unless he can push through a huge 'stimulus' package of public funding, which the private sector capitalist need as to infrastructure repairs and upgrades, much more then roads and bridges, or like not to far back, like the some thirty years after WWII he can find honest business people that need to partner in seeking public financing to boost their own private financing to build the industries they would like to form, what wall street is supposed to be doing.

    If he thinks he's going to instantly get the reagan capitalist like himself to suddenly start following the free market capitalism ideology they sold, i.e. trickle down, he'd better think again, Didn't work for the bush jr. during his whole presidency and the only time it did, mostly them using everyone else's money, was during the Clinton presidency economic growth after the needs arose from the reagan long recession, reason I moved South, which continued only slowly coming out of during daddy bush's reign!

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:47:45 AM PDT

    •  Hell (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, Gorette

      The only reason the veterans unemployment numbers are going down, big veterans hiring fair in Detroit see my diary on list, is the Obama Administration is embarrassing the companies and corporations, most of them, into hiring the veterans of these two wars of choice especially. These jobs are there they just didn't want any new hires, hurts that free market capitalism bottom line, but now they look oh so patriotic, with a big push from this executive branch!!

      Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

      by jimstaro on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:52:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  showoff (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Eric Nelson

    how many pins can mitt dance on the heads  of?

    as many as he has bank cards!

    thank you, thank you, i'll be here all week. try the lasagna florentine!

    "Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible." - Janet Malcolm

    by slangist on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:02:33 AM PDT

  •  This has to make it into a commercial. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Romney outed as a job destroyer - plus the added bonus of prompting the setup of Indian call centers, where "Steve" tells you that he has no power to remedy your situation.

    Chase, I am looking at you, for putting holds on local paychecks and sending me to the Indian call center.

    9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

    by varro on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:04:25 AM PDT

  •  Leave Mitt Alllloooonneee.... (0+ / 0-)

    He knows how to create jobs! (in China, India, Vietnam...)

    'Osama Bin Ladien is still dead and GM is still alive' - Joe Biden "Dems kill terrorist. The GOP keeps them around as a boogeyman - so they can continue to steel."

    by RichM on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:05:19 AM PDT

  •  Cognitive dissonance and denial (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ..will have the real pin-heads dismiss the story with "Librul Media" and they'll be back mad as hell (and a hatter) with the next outrage that FOX "News" creates out of whole cloth.

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    I want a living planet, not just a living room.

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:06:42 AM PDT

  •  Anyone remember when "Made In Japan" was (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Egalitare, newfie, mrsgoo, Gorette, llywrch, Matt Z

    one of the most reviled phrases in the American vernacular?

    When the mere thought of a city-block-sized American store filled to the brim with predominately Chinese-made goods would be akin to a breach of national security?

    When saving an entire American industry and all its jobs wasn't constantly berated?  When an American city losing its Olympics bid wasn't actively cheered?

    Fuck you, Mitt.  Fuck you, your party, and the horse you rode in on.

    No, check that.  It's not the horse's fault.  The horse can stay.

    Willard Romney: all the bullshit of Mitt with none of the charm.

    by here4tehbeer on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:10:53 AM PDT

    •  Yes, and then they want to "bring back (0+ / 0-)

      America," when they participated in and like Romney/Bain increased the outsourcing of American jobs.

      "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

      by Gorette on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:46:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Repugs can now drop the "What IS meaning of IS (0+ / 0-)

    meme'."  Mitt just negated that arguement.

  •  How quickly some forget... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    "invested in a series of firms that specialized in relocating jobs done by American workers to new facilities in low-wage countries like China and India."

    Now show me someone running for President who is opposed to Free Trade Job Outsourcing.

    Thank you.

    The 1% Feast on Results while the 99% Starve on Rhetoric They Can Believe In.

    by Johnathan Ivan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:17:02 AM PDT

  •  See, rMoney KNOWS (0+ / 0-) to create American jobs.  He knew it at Bain Capital.

    It was just "hard," you know?  He was waiting for someone to make it easier.

    As President, he'll work to provide jobs for Americans.  Unless it's "hard."  Then he'll have to find someone to make it easier for him to do the right thing.  You know, provide some sort of incentive.

    America, we can do better than this...

    by Randomfactor on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:17:44 AM PDT

  •  As Governor of MA, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, askew, Gorette, Matt Z

    he vetoed a bill that would have prevented the state from contracting with anyone who offshored jobs, and did contract with at least one company (Citigroup, no less) that did in fact outsource jobs performed for the State of Massachusetts under contract.

    The President has an ad out hitting him on it.

    Everybody got to elevate from the norm....

    by Icicle68 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:17:52 AM PDT

  •  The problem is deeper (0+ / 0-)

    I wouldn't pin too much hope on this story being a Romney-killer.  The conventional wisdom has moved so far towards one-sided supply side thinking in the past two generations, that offshoring isn't a capitol offense anymore.  "Outsourcing" definitely sounds better than "offshoring", but the bottom line is that people mostly buy in, these days, to the idea that both are ultimately good things for the economy, which has to be good for all of us.

    Most of us buy the premise of free trade always being good, at least in the long run, at least for most of us, however much some individuals lose jobs.  We've bought into the incorrect idea that whatever makes it easier and cheaper to produce goods and services will make the economy more efficient, and that productive efficiency is the only way to improve the economy.  This supply side efficiency will send jobs to where the goods and services can be produced most cheaply, lowering the prices we all pay for consumer goods and services.

    The problem with that model, of course, is that it ignores the demand side.  Allowing businesses to compete on the basis of a lower wage scale tends to destroy demand.  In this one form of productive efficiency, lowering wages, what is good for the individual business comes at the expense of the economy as a whole.  Every other way of cutting the costs of production may actually help the whole economy, actually will tend to trickle down, but cutting costs by cutting wages hurts the whole economy.

    At one time, demand side considerations were a recognized part of the conventional wisdom , shared by D and R, liberal and conservative alike.  Nixon himself famously argued the demand side against Khrushchev at that Moscow trade show.  But that was the 1950s, and that's all gone with the wind.  What has happened since is that, with all sorts of help from the people who have all the money and therefor want the supply side listened to with exclusion, is that most of us have reverted to thinking about the economy solely in the terms of the supply side.  It's a natural way of thought to slip into, because in managing our own money, we cannot afford to think demand side, thinking demand side is irrelevant.  We don't spend more from our own accoounts with the idea that our extra spending is going to come back to us, with the idea that we have to spend so that the people who get our money will in turn buy what we produce.  That plan only works if everyone is spending more, creating more demand.  That thinking ony applies from the perspective of the economy as a whole.  It's vital to think that way when considering the economy as a whole, but that viewpoint is the only viewpoint from which demand side makes any sense.

    So, sure, this revelation that Bain offshored is not a good thing for them, not a positive.  But this really is old news, this really is a battle that the supply side people have already won in shaping the conventional wisdom.  If you want to turn this around, you have to understand that the real task here is to change conventional wisdom, that any points you score on the difference between charactrizing this as "offshoring" vs "outsourcing" are not going to make a lasting difference until and unless you get people to see that even outsourcing is a bad thing, no better than offshoring.

    We should have destroyed the presidency before Obama took office. Too late now.

    by gtomkins on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:20:47 AM PDT

    •  I understand the point you are making, but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      when the average person hears "offshoring" or "outsourcing" they don't see a distinction.

      To them both terms mean they have to deal with somebody they can't understand on the phone, who can't understand them and who can't help them.

      Even my die-hard Republican sister bitches out this!

      “To the world you may be just one person, but to one person you may be the world.”-Brandi Snyder (in memory of my Nick)

      by YellowDogInGA on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:19:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "bitches about this"'s been a long week (0+ / 0-)

        “To the world you may be just one person, but to one person you may be the world.”-Brandi Snyder (in memory of my Nick)

        by YellowDogInGA on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:20:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Does it keep her from voting R? (0+ / 0-)

        What the Rs say about her frustration dealing with furrin' help desks is that her frustration will continue until and unless Americna workers learn to accept the same level of hard work for low wages prevalent in Bangalore, or whatever furrin' place the help desks have been offshored to.

        This is very, very old hat.  If we're hemorrhaging jobs, of any sort, to furriners, it's because the American worker is just not hard-working enough, and/or is just too pampered and coddled with exorbitant wages that cannot be sustained in the real world.  The other side's answer to your sister's frustrastion is to tell her to suck it up, and be willing to work for Myanmar wages if she wants to put her money where her mouth is.  That's been their answer for two generations.  But apparently, that answer is good enough for your sister, or she would not vote for these goniffs in die hard fashion.

        We should have destroyed the presidency before Obama took office. Too late now.

        by gtomkins on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 12:24:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Try peddling this in the 'Rust Belt'. It destroys (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gtomkins, this just in

      Mr. 1%s road to 270, if exploited and unless europe explodes.

      •  What's the matter with Kansas? (0+ / 0-)

        And isn't Joe the Plumber from OH, heart of the rust belt?  The Rs would not have won election one during my entire adult life had they not mastered the trick of getting people to vote against their own economic interests.

        Of course your point is valid ref states that are close anyway, and have an unusually large percentage of voters who've gotten the offshoring shaft.  

        But take MI, the state where the Bain connection is most likely to do Romney in, and even there you have what I would point to as an example of people being receptive to our message precisely because local circumstnces have made them much more conscious than most of the US to the demand side of economic thinking.

        Bain and offshoring hurts Romney in MI because it reminds Michiganders that R was against the auto bailout.  But people in MI had first-hand experience of the interconnectedness of the whole economy.  It's not mainly the auto workers themselves that were the point, as most people in MI aren't auto workers.  But people who live there undersand that if the auto makers had shut down, that would have created a cascade of reverse multipliers, as all sorts of suppliers, and their suppliers, etc., would all shut down in turn.  You lose too much industry, and pretty soon the very fabric of cities comes apart, and literal physical holes are left in a place like Detroit.

        No doubt people outside of MI can be brought to understand that interconnectedness, that viewpoint of the economy as a whole that our side's message has to rest on.  But you don't get people to that viewpoint just by complaining that capitalism destroys some jobs.  Of course it does.  It's supposed to.  There couldn't be progress without buggy whip makers losing their jobs.  The job loss complaint is old hat, an argument our side lost a long time ago, an argument we lost by letting the focus drift to individual jobs and away from the economy as a whole, away from the common good.

        The problem with Kansas, and Joe the Plumber and people in the rust belt who vote R, is that they have bought into a false narrative of a long-term common good that involves accepting some short term pain of job loss.  People are too willing to accept unwarranted job loss as if it were strong economic medicine, precisely because they are too idealistic, too self-sacrificing to look suspiciously enough at what is actually patent medicine quackery.  You can't get people to reject a medicine just because it has toxic side effects -- they all do.  You have to convince them the medicine doesn't do any good, as well as having bad side effects.

        We should have destroyed the presidency before Obama took office. Too late now.

        by gtomkins on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 12:12:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ur overanalyzing. Sendng jobs overseas not = POTU (0+ / 0-)

          S, especially when you did so to make up to a 1/2 billion $s, some of which is stashed in Swis and Cayman bank accounts.

          As for the rest, i suggest looking first at 1) the War on Labor, 2) the rise of Thuglican religion, 3) the horrible media, and 4) the lack of a 365 a year messaging campaign by Democratic Party, and all too feckless attempts when they do try (part of that is just inherent in its democratic, bottom-up nature rather than wealthy/corporate ordered nature of the Thugs, but part is justliberals being stupid and not realizing politics is a noble profession if your fighting for the right folks and like any profession it must be pursue constantly and you get better the more you do it).

    •  Still, low info voters would not like this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      about him, just as high info voters--like us--do not like this at all. It makes him look bad for America, despite what you are arguing which is probably true.

      "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

      by Gorette on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:49:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Our side should not rely on low information (0+ / 0-)

        I don't say that as some high-minded, aspirational goal.  What I mean is that unless we change the conventional wisdom prevalent among the low information people, and really most high information voters as well, our side loses.  

        It absolutely is no argument, at all, against economic medicine that it causes pain such as some people losing their jobs.  All medicine has painful side effects.  It wouldn't be prescription-controlled unless it could kill you.  The Rs have an excellent track record selling the most destructive economc policy precisely because it is painful.  It couldn't possibly be real medicine if it tasted good!

        Our side wins only insofar as we turn low information into high information voters by spreading the demand side gospel.  Fail to correct people's basic misunderstanding that only the supply side is real and serious, and they will accept any painful and unpleasant prescription the supply side imposes.

        We should have destroyed the presidency before Obama took office. Too late now.

        by gtomkins on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 12:36:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Though I appreciate your belief that this (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          turn low information into high information voters by spreading the demand side gospel
          can be done. I do not.

          People believe what they want to often, and the right wing only listen to people who lie to them. Just some along the fringes may be gotten to. The rest are on the reservation for the duration.

          But, hey, of course we try. Of course. Yet there will always be lots of low info voters on both sides and in the middle, and those we may get to.

          "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

          by Gorette on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 02:16:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Reality is a good teacher (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            This country was pretty solidly sold on mindless corporatism until the Great Depression created a teachable moment.  Hard times passed and we gradually forgot.  Hard times are back, and we will have another teachable moment, if only we can make us of it.

            We should have destroyed the presidency before Obama took office. Too late now.

            by gtomkins on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 02:44:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You know, I used to believe we could (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              change people's minds. But the last few years have changed that because I've read about studies that show you can tell a lie and then come back and explain the facts, the truth, and they might believe that for a while. But afterwards they mostly return to the lie. As if it was embedded there in stone and nothing can wash it away.

              (Well, maybe if the stimulus was strong enough it might.)

              So now I just accept pretty much that not many minds can be changed by facts and truth! So sad, isn't it?

              Other things need to be tried, but putting the truth out is needed anyhow, just for the record.

              "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

              by Gorette on Sat Jun 23, 2012 at 11:05:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ignorance is a luxury (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                As long as people are doing well. and the US has been doing about as well as any nation in all of history for generations now, they have the luxury of believing anything.  They don't have to reality test to survive, so they don't, because if reality testing for survival is the most basic function of a belief system, there are plenty of other things your belief system can do for you.  If your belief system isn't needed for survival, it ends up being used for comfort.  

                The basic story of the last 90 years of our politics is that we had a dominant party in the prosperous 1920s, the Rs, who succeeded by telling a successful nation all the flattering lies it wanted to hear about its prosperity.  The flattering lies did great at making people feel good, and getting Rs elected, but they did a terrible job of reality testing.  Following these dumb-ass beliefs drove the economy over a cliff.  At that point, the electorate was no longer interested in a belief system that was only good for flattery, they recognized the need for something that dealt with reality, so the Rs were sent to the showers for a generation, and the nation prospered.

                In its uninterrupted prosperity, the nation forgot what beliefs are really needed for, and went back to listening to the Rs as they peddled the same load of flattering lies.  I don't expect people will turn decisively back to reality testing until and unless things get worse.  We're still riding high, though sensible people can see that's not likely to last.

                You're absolutely right about the persistance of foolish beliefs under the conditions we have seen for two generations.  We have been so successful, so powerful, that we could shrug off the consequences of stupidity that would have felled a less powerful nation.  Very, very few nations in history have survived the casual commission of completely purposeless wars -- but that's been the national career beginning with Vietnam, a whole series of completely pointless wars.  Stupidity deep and solid enough for a career of pointless wars is so deep that it won't be shaken easily.  It's going to take either the loss of a war, or a really bad Depression.  Look at our current belief system and you can predict that we won't have to wait long for one or both.

                We should have destroyed the presidency before Obama took office. Too late now.

                by gtomkins on Sat Jun 23, 2012 at 05:23:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  I'm still waiting for the 'JOB CREATORS' (0+ / 0-)

    to you know, actually create some  jobs.

    They've gotten a free ride from US Taxpayers for going on 30 years now, and have just enriched themselves and their heirs.

    I think it's time to end that travesty and the myth of the unhappy "job creator" for once and for all time.  

    A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism. -Carl Sagan

    by jo fish on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:22:00 AM PDT

  •  Yes, it makes him Dewey, vague, inert .. (0+ / 0-)

    .."The little man on the wedding cake" - Alice Roosevelt Longworth

  •  Willard's new bumper sticker (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zed, mrsgoo, Gorette, Matt Z

    Radical Activist Homosexual Agenda: 1. Equality 2. See #1

    by skip945 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:24:58 AM PDT

  •  Mitt Romney knows how to create jobs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    For people in other countries! (spoken like Triumph the insult comic dog)

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:33:02 AM PDT

  •  After years of running for President, this guy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    still cannot answer this charge effectively.  You would think that by now he would have this covered.

    Perhaps when you are running to be President of the United States there simply is no defense you can make to the American people for making huge profits by sending their jobs out of the country.  

  •  Artful? Or Artless? Or ... both! (0+ / 0-)

    Yes, there may be a distinction between outsourcing/offshoring existing domestic jobs and outsourcing/offshoring work that wasn't being done in America before. From a business perspective, these certainly have different consequences but from a (1) domestic (2) economic policy (3) jobs-in-the-USA standpoint - in other words, to us voters! - they look pretty much the same.

    Mitt, you're saying business is the best training - and you would required it! - to be President of the United States. Not in this respect, it ain't!

    Face it. People aren't corporations, my friend!

    Obama and strong Democratic majorities in 2012!

    by TRPChicago on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:35:50 AM PDT

  •  Romney would make us all nostalgic for Bush (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This is the perfect candidate to champion the interests of - Wall Street.

    We would find ourselves being nostalgic for Bush, who after all was mostly feckless and led by people like Cheney and Rove.

    I can't really quite get why people would vote for Romney, except that a lot of people just aren't thinking.  

    If Romney wins, there will be a pitched battle over what is left of the American middle class, and we may find ourselves in it for many many years.  

    It isn't just Romney.  There has been a huge effort to create a situation in which the media is cheerleading an interpretation of what conservatism means driven by special interest money and evangelical extremism.  

    What we need to beat is not Romeny, but the whole paradigm.

    hope that the idiots who have no constructive and creative solutions but only look to tear down will not win the day.

    by Stuart Heady on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:52:08 AM PDT

  •  He's using someone else's playbook (0+ / 0-)

    This was the same rationalization that Randy Altschuler--the once and future failed Republican candidate against Tim Bishop in New York's First District--used to explain away the fact that his company, Office Tiger, was one of the largest outsourcing firms that sent thousands of jobs to India, the Philippines (maybe to a GOP conference call provider!), and Sri Lanka.

    Didn't work in 2010 for Altschuler. Won't work in 2012 for either Altschuler or Romney.

    "Speaking for myself only" - Armando

    by JR on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:12:21 AM PDT

  •  If Mike Milken had done (0+ / 0-)

    what Rmoney did, he'd still be serving time. Now, of course, it's all legal.

    The power of the Occupy movement is that it ....realizes a fundamental truth about American politics… there is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs.

    by orson on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:15:56 AM PDT

  •  He understands why they GO, that's for sure! (0+ / 0-)

    Love that line!! Great for an ad:

    Romney "understands why jobs come and they go."*



    As CEO of Bain, Romney shipped (xyz..)

    *statement by Romney spokesperson

    "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

    by Gorette on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:27:58 AM PDT

  •  Bring jobs back to America (0+ / 0-) making America more like China and India.

    So much for American Exceptionalism (TM).

    -5.38 -4.72 T. Atlas shrugged. Jesus wept.

    by trevzb on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:47:04 AM PDT

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