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Here's House Speaker John Boehner on Sunday's Face the Nation, dodging guest host Nora O'Donnell's efforts to pin him down on the "replace" part of what happens if they repeal the Affordable Care Act. Here's what he would answer: Insurance companies would still be able to deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

NORAH O'DONNELL: What about pre-existing conditions? What about the millions of Americans that have pre-existing conditions and are discriminated against?

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: We believe that the way it is done within Obamacare is—is pushing the cost of health insurance for all Americans much too high. We believe that the state high-risk pools are a much more effective way to making sure that those with preexisting conditions have access to affordable health insurance.

NORAH O'DONNELL: But access to affordable health insurance, but you're not saying you would be for a law that would prevent discrimination of those individuals?

REPRESENTATIVE JOHN BOEHNER: No, we just believe there is a better way to make sure that they have affordable access to quality health insurance.

Boehner's better way is one that numerous states have implemented starting back in the 1970s. About three dozen states have set up high risk pools, some of which have been operating for decades. The fact that these experiments have failed, by and large, to actually provide affordable coverage to most of the people locked out of health insurance doesn't seem to make any difference to Boehner. Nor does the fact that trying to cover these people with these flawed programs costs far more overall than it will to fold them into regular insurance pools with healthier, less expensive patients.

Remember, for Republicans covering the uninsured "is not the issue," whether that's people who can't afford insurance, or people who have been denied it. No, for Republicans the issue is taking this win away from President Obama. That, and putting insurance companies back in the driver's seat when it comes to your health care.

Originally posted to Joan McCarter on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:19 PM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  At this point (29+ / 0-)

    the conservatives are thowing shit at the wall and hoping something will stick.  They are really at a loss for even spin here.

    I just hope a significant number of people see through this garbage.  I have doubts...

  •  True Colors are starting to show.... n/t (17+ / 0-)

    "'Touch it dude' - President Barack Obama"

    by volleyboy1 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:29:56 PM PDT

  •  Health Pool story (36+ / 0-)

    Denied health insurance due to age, no chronic illnesses, couple of surgeries.

    Off to the State pool.

    Same two insurers BUT the premiums hiked to $600 month for practically no coverage and $800 with lots of out-of-pockets and 20% co-pay.

    Like $6,000 - $8,000 in health insurance premiums is doable.

    Hence, uninsured from age 54 to 65 when Medicare will kick in if I haven't kicked the can.

    Boehner's face looks like he's trying not to poop his pants.  Reminds me of my kids when they were babies.  True.

    It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

    by War on Error on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:38:10 PM PDT

  •  They're hurting themselves with this. (17+ / 0-)

    They'll shut up after a couple more weeks of this idiocy.

    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin

    by hotdamn on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:46:22 PM PDT

  •  I am glad various media are actually questioning (22+ / 0-)

    Republicans on what they'd replace the ACA with, and that they are pushing even when given complete non-answers ("a common-sense step by step approach" or whatever substanceless utterance he kept repeating is not a plan).  
    However, I do wish someone would bother to bring up the millions in insurance rebates consumers and businesses will be getting due to the ACA's requirement that they spend 80% of what they charge on actual health care benefits when Boehner and other idiots voice the lie that the ACA drives up the cost of health care and drives small businesses out of business.

    "On their backs were vermiculate patterns that were maps of the world in its becoming. Maps...of a thing which could not be put back. Not be made right again."

    by middleagedhousewife on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:50:50 PM PDT

    •  I agree and feel the media will...... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG, JVolvo, middleagedhousewife

      pick up the story at some point. Checks totaling 1.3 Billion dollars that are going to thousands and thousands of households will be hard to ignore.

      However, regardless of the corporate media's coverage; I feel these checks will be discussed in diners, at water coolers, break rooms, church foyers etc. etc. across the nation. In other words, I think the word of mouth and person-to-person spread of this positive, good new story will go “viral” and can’t help but help put a positive face on the ACA.  
       

      The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation--HDT

      by cazcee on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:01:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Allstate Run Healthcare. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    madgranny, TofG, JeffW

    If you never let the facts get in the way of what you believe, you just might be a Republican.

    by kitebro on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:53:50 PM PDT

  •  Hartmann Pointed Out that Roberts Opened the (6+ / 0-)

    door for a repeal to be non-filibusterable by the Democrats by ruling that the penalty was a tax, should the Repubs have the Senate next year.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:57:08 PM PDT

    •  Even Republican voters aren't that dumb. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TofG, SquirrelQueen

      This situation has to be the most blatant example of how the Republican party just wants their base to be stupid and uninformed.  

      They are basically counting on the idea that their voters will be so stupid as to not recognize that whatever they replace the law with will have all the same components as the law they replace.  

      •  I wish I had your confidence. I think some are (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JVolvo

        that dumb.

      •  Not if the House is still full of TEA Party nuts. (0+ / 0-)
        whatever they replace the law with will have all the same components as the law they replace.
        There will be no replacement that's anything like the ACA. They want to get rid of the "government take-over" of health care. They think any federal government involvement in health care is unconstitutional (regardless of the Supreme Court decision). The only "replacement" they favor is allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines, and tort reform. My rep's position on Obamacare is to "rip it out by the roots."
    •  Fortunately it could still be vetoed though (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sherri in TX, zapus, jayden

      whether or not Obama would be willing to use the veto pen, especially if it is part of a larger funding bill, is unknown.

      There is no saving throw against stupid.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:44:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, I caught that today. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maryabein, boatwright, cocinero, JVolvo

      He said the way is now open for a Republican Senate majority, should that come to pass, to repeal it via reconciliation. I was on my way home from a doctor's appointment when I heard that. I nearly pulled over in shock. If I'm acting like my life depends on this legislation, that's because it does.

      Organ donors save lives! A donor's kidney gave me my life back on 02/18/11; he lives on in me. Please talk with your family about your wish to donate.

      Why are war casualty counts "American troops" and "others" but never "human beings"?

      by Kitsap River on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:16:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Roberts' opinion (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boatwright, JVolvo

      opened the door to all sorts of chicanery, from making the ACA subject to reconciliation to diluting the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause.  He's a very clever man.  Conservative and clever - a dangerous combination.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:18:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The real question: Why did they give us this? (0+ / 0-)

        The Powers that Be, I mean.  Why did they give us this one?  They didn't have to.  The narrative had already been written.  Nobody truly expected the Court to invalidate the entire law - that would have been universally seen as partisan.  But,...most of us (admit it, probably all of us) believed that they would throw-out the mandate, and with it probably the pre-existing condition provision that is so beholden to the mandate.  Liberals would have cried, Obama would have whined, but in the end, it wouldn;t have been unexpected. And, it wouldn't have "damaged" the Court's credibility any worse than already exists.

        So, why did they let this stand???  Let me posit a theory:  Everyone agrees that this ACA is a giveaway to the insurance industry.  And, while many believe that this is the thin edge of the wedge toward single payer, this bill actually strengthens the insurance industry, rather than hastening it's death.  It funnels a lot more government money (subsidies) and private money (mandated insurance) into the pockets of the industry.  That money can be used for PACs and lobbying efforts to see that "Medicare for All" never comes to pass.

        Now, some may say that Roberts is the most measured of the republican justices, and he had this potential swing in him all along.  And, maybe he just agreed with the liberal argument.  Really?  Roberts may be the most corporate justice on the court.  As I recall during his confirmation hearings, he has a history of very corporate-friendly rulings prior to joining the Court.  And, on ALL the big stuff prior, he has been with the conservatives.  The idea of a conversion is dubious at best.  Keep in mind too that the Court's ruling on the Arizona case is also a win for the corporate wing of the GOP base - someone has to install that carpet, spread mulch, and mow those lawns, and cheaply too!

        No, I believe that Roberts and the Powers that Be gave this one to us.  The Left did not "win" on this.  A bad bill that serves a powerful corporate master is still around, where it can stand in the way of a better one.  Remember, this was the REPUBLICAN plan twenty years ago.  My guess is that they still like it (at least the smart ones).  Afterall, upper middle class republicans benefit from no pre-existing conditions and keeping their college graduated kids on their good HC plans until age 26 (or until they finish law/grad school).  The only bills the GOP really hate are those that give money to others and not to them.

        Demonizing the ACA was useful (especially in 2010 in taking back the House).  It's still useful in rallying the southern base, so expect more of the same.  But, as Shakespear wrote "... I fear thou doest protest too much".  I'm not saying it's a win for the Right, just that it's not much of a win for the Left, or a loss for the Right, for that matter.  At least not to the "Right" that matter.  And as pointed out, above, Roberts' opinion is a roadmap for future attacks on the New Deal and progressive legislation.  

        In the global scope of things, the Left's defeat in Wisconsin last month was a far bigger loss than this is a win, and I'll bet the powers that run the Right wouldn't offer to trade.

  •  Aren't the State Programs Being Slashed Practicly (14+ / 0-)

    everywhere?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 03:59:12 PM PDT

  •  The Emperor has no clothes! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, JML9999, JeffW

    Starting with being caught with his pants down on Thursday!  I love it!

    •  behind the mask... (0+ / 0-)

      There is one point when his eyes blaze with naked fury when someone has the audacity to question him; he looks like he is ready for a knife fight in some cheesy bar, and he is revealed to be human (for once) but in a dangerous sort of way.  It is fascinating to see him with his mask ripped away for a moment, but what we see beyond his bland, cold facade is even more scary than the orange-faced barrier he hides behind most of the time.  

  •  It is very important for them (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skyounkin, JVolvo

    The importance of this can't go missing.  

    It's amazing to me, because the Republicans always say that they are willing to throw money at extremely poor people and others, because that puts those people in the position of grateful beggars who are living off of the welfare state.  

    I wrote a diary a while back about how some Christian sects need the poor and sickly in order to maintain their position as the benefactors to whom everyone should be grateful, and for the purpose of raising funds.  

    Same same with the political part.

  •  Speaker Boehner just gave the gavel back to Pelosi (8+ / 0-)

    I can't believe how honest they are being.  This is the most popular part of Obamacare

    80 % of success is showing up

    Corporate is not the solution to our problem

    Corporate is the problem

    by Churchill on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:32:46 PM PDT

  •  Support Barack with your vote and your money (7+ / 0-)

    or this WILL happen.
    Signed,
    Ghost of Christmas Future.

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:33:37 PM PDT

  •  Send these pics to your friends: (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, Greasy Grant, jayden, skyounkin, JVolvo

    healthcare2

    healthcare1

    healthcare

    For larger versions of the pictures, click here. Also, send 'em to your Tea Party extended family members!

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:39:59 PM PDT

  •  dispicable (7+ / 0-)

    There's just  not any other word to describe this.

    So, since I have had prostate cancer and have Crohn's disease and have had skin cancer surgery...I'm outta luck?

    Fuck you, John Boehner.  

    The truth is sometimes very inconvenient.

    by commonsensically on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:41:03 PM PDT

  •  Sen Percy Dovetonsils walking back 51 Vote repeal (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zapus, TofG, James Philip Pratt, cocinero

    http://thinkprogress.org/...

    McConnell: ‘It’s A Lot Harder’ To Undo Obamacare | Republicans have pledged to fully repeal the Affordable Care Act if the party regains control of the Senate and presidency in 2012. But Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) is less than confident about the probability of eliminating the law. Speaking to a small group in Elizabethtown, Kentucky on Monday, McConnell admitted, “If you thought it was a good idea for the federal government to go in this direction, I’d say the odds are still on your side. Because it’s a lot harder to undo something than it is to stop it in the first place.” Indeed, Republicans face an uphill battle in undoing the measure.

    Not blaming Bush for the mess we're in, is like not blaming a train engineer for a fatal train wreck because he's no longer driving the train.

    by JML9999 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:43:27 PM PDT

    •  "What are you going to do (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999, James Philip Pratt, cocinero

      to provide coverage for the 30 million people who are uninsured?"

      "I'll tell you what we're not going to do...."

      It's just not possible for McConnell to answer a straightforward question.  At least Boehner had an answer.  It wasn't a good answer or a workable answer, but he didn't dodge the question entirely.

      P.S.  I've never before seen a turtle look like it's been "caught in the headlights."  It's disturbing.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:33:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So, McConnell does not want a health care (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JML9999

      system like that of Western Europe with universal coverage at significantly less cost.

      What he wants is to go back to the system before 2009 with great health care for members of Congress and other 1%ers who can pay for good care, and plenty of profits for the 1%ers who run health care corporations.

      The 30 million don't matter.

  •  The only redeeming quality I see in Boehner (0+ / 0-)

    Is "cornea donor".

    "The bass player is always right"

    by BigOkie on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:44:13 PM PDT

  •  Covering unisured is not the issue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero

    Indeed.  Republicans don't care about the uninsured or about the welfare of those with pre-existing conditions.  They are solely interested in fulfilling the wishes of HMOs and pharmaceutical companies - which is to maximize profits.

  •  Won't hear this on MSM -- it's all tax vs. mandate (0+ / 0-)

    24/7.

    Miserable cretins.

  •  What part of the ACA don't you like? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    firstalto, this just in

    Keep asking that question of every Republican office holder, every Republican and every independent you know.  Then if they don't know what the ACA entails ask,  Do you think your unemployed child who is under 26 should be taken out of your policy?  Do you think children should have no insurance?  Do you think it is ok for an inusrance company to have higher premiums because you are a woman, or not even allow you to get insurance because you had a preestisint g condition like tonsilitus?

    Ask away.  What a mighty hole the Republicans are digging!

    Don't you think someone who doesn't have health insurance and can afford it should be encouraged to buy health insurance so that all of his emergency room care and any other care is not paid for by you?  You support yuppie emergency room care (the modern equivalent of the welfare queen in a cadillac right?)

    •  The answer so far (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero

      Representative Steve King: "“Every provision of Obamacare must be repealed, not selective parts of it .. Obamacare must be ripped out completely, lock, stock and barrel, root and branch — no vestige left behind, not a DNA particle of Obamacare retained." (nytimes.com).

      I don't think that's going to poll well.

      •  I heard Steve King say this a few weeks ago (0+ / 0-)

        in a town hall in Iowa. He wants to "rip it out by the roots." He had a little story about when you take out a tree, you have to get the roots, otherwise little shoots will come back. Completely repealing Obamacare is his number one objective. King has a visceral hatred of Obama and Obamacare.

        Thanks for the link to the NY Times article.

  •  I don't get how he thinks risk pools work (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero

    Either they are unaffordable or they involve substantial taxpayer subsidy. There's no magic free-market unicorn that treats high-risk people.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:52:54 PM PDT

  •  So, Boner has enough votes from... (0+ / 0-)

    corporate people, eh?

    Meh. (R)MONEY.

    Ugh. --UB.

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of East Somalia!"

    by unclebucky on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:55:24 PM PDT

  •  They also miss what is "high risk" (3+ / 0-)

    Unless otherwise proscribed by state regulations, a woman who has given birth by C-section counts as "high risk." It's not just a few people with cancer.

    Given how many high risk people are absorbed by employer group insurance, the whole thing just shows how little they understand about the whole situation.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:55:37 PM PDT

  •  authoritarianism as preexisting condition: covered (3+ / 0-)

    Präsidentenelf-maßschach"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) "Ensanguining the skies...Falls the remorseful day".政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 04:59:24 PM PDT

  •  nothing new here, (0+ / 0-)

    this has been the republican position all along. the only difference (and just barely) is that they are being sort of forced to articulate it in a public forum, with the upholding of the ACA by the USSC.

    so, until obama, they didn't care about the deficit or national debt, because they increased both. until clinton/obama, they didn't really care about complete public access to health care. when they did, they created the same basic program (and implemented it in MA) that obama did, but now they despise it. because, well, obama is for it. other than that, they don't really care at all.

    yeah, we kinda knew this already, those that have been paying any kind of attention since reagan. unfortunately, getting through to their base, and getting them to understand just how much the republican party despises them as individuals, is a nearly sysiphean task (god, i do love the ancient greeks!), made so by their addiction to FOX and limbaugh.

    i talk to people who claim to be tea partiers. they are, for the most part, decent folks who truly believe in the whole "american dream" thing. unfortunately, they tend to also be terribly uninformed/misinformed, because of FOX and its ilk. i try (as nicely as i'm capable of being) to suggest perhaps they've been misled. it isn't their fault they've been lied to, but they have been lied to. i urge them to not take my word for it, but to do research of their own, because one shouldn't just take someone else's word for something. i try to treat them like intelligent people, who've just been given wrong information. get the facts, and then decide. i may not agree with your decision, but at least you made it based on real data, and i'll respect you for that.

    it is a hard thing to hold my baser impulses in check, but sometimes it's actually worth it. i don't even care if they don't say they've changed their mind, and are going to vote democratic (that would be nice, but.........), as long as they're now actually critically analyzing, and not just being good little droogies.

    •  The only time the Republicans (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero

      have even put together the approximation of a plan is when a Democratic president has submitted one - first Clinton (when Orrin Hatch submitted, essentially, the ACA with a different name), then Obama.  When the Clinton plan failed, they made no other attempt to present any kind of plan even though they controlled congress for the next 12 years.

      They don't give a rat's ass about the need to change the health care system, either the way it's paid for or the way it's delivered.

      "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

      by SueDe on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:47:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Throwing it all away. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero
    "John Boehner: Republicans won't cover people with pre-existing conditions"
    And that's why you are going to lose—a vast disconnect from what Americans really want and NEED.

    Even the 'baggers know this is an important part of the much needed changes in the scam that is our insurance system.

    F*ck those idiots and the voters they rode in on.

    by roninkai on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:07:16 PM PDT

  •  Americans are beaten-down underlings at heart (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero

    Imagine signing on to a Social Contract that doesn't operate to meet the basic needs of the society. That's the world of today.

    Worse, under Repuke Rules, the Social Contract would EXPLICITLY prevent everyday Americans getting anything is exchange for their labor, their economic patronage and their lives in war.  

    I dread November.

  •  Republicans don't "do." (0+ / 0-)

    Republicans "have" faith.  It's part of the ownership mantra. "To have and to hold" until death.

    Doing is not on the menu.  Mostly, because they are people who don't know how or why.

    Boehner was a plastics salesman. He talked people into buying packaging that's mostly designed to deceive. The gift of gab is his sole means of support. If he couldn't talk, he'd be out of luck.

    Willard's forte = "catch 'n' cage"

    People to Wall Street, "let our money go."

    by hannah on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:08:22 PM PDT

  •  Opt-Out Cards (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero, Radhika

    The perfect gift for conservatives, Tea Partiers, and Republicans.

    It's an alert card warning that in the event of a medical emergency, the bearer refuses all care under Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid or Emergency Room Treatment for the uninsured. No government medical help of any kind. They insist on their right to Live Free AND DIE!!!!!  If they can not afford insurance or simply choose to do without, that's it.

    It's the ultimate pre-existing condition - too stupid to live. The deluxe version is a medallion on a chain permanently riveted in place around their necks.

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:12:39 PM PDT

  •  The devil is generally in the detail, and.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    this just in, cocinero

    the Republican proposal has no details. In the real world, it's in the "vapor-ware" category.  Somewhere on this site there was a diagram of the Republican plan and it was essentially one PowerPoint slide with about 3 circled bullet points.

    A brain fart does not constitute a plan or a carefully thought out strategy that addresses actual current and future needs.  To solve a problem you must first define it, which requires understanding it.  I have yet to listen to a Republican pol that understands anything but what fit on Palin's palm, "lower taxes."

    "Lower taxes" is the Republican mantra and universal panacea.  It solves ringworm, unemployment, neuritis, neuralgia, fibromyalgia, rickets, beriberi, housing and banking scams, ED, the heartbreak of psoriasis, usury, WMD, jock rash, high oil prices, Greek debt,  everything!  Amazing!

    I think that Republicanism is revealing itself as a personality disorder, not so much an ideology." -- Naomi Klein

    by AllanTBG on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:22:34 PM PDT

  •  The Republican Fantasy of Compassion (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Monitor78, cocinero, Alexandra Lynch

    As famously voiced by George W. Bush, is that people with cancer or chronic heart failure can show up at the ER and get better with a bandaid or sample size bottle of pills.  There is a reason why the US lags 20 other nations in life expectancy and leads many countries in infant mortality. This country does provide excellent care, usually, to the luckiest 85% who can still afford it.  Like many others I have to be very careful at my work to retain my insurance.

    Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan actually do believe in an entitlement society. They believe the wealthiest 1/10th of 1% to be entitled to an ever increasing percentage of the national net personal wealth.

    by James Philip Pratt on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:22:48 PM PDT

  •  For the party that claims to be business experts.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Monitor78

    they have no clue as to how the business of insurance works.

  •  Adverse selection (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    James Philip Pratt

    ... is what insurers call it when sick people buy health insurance... you get it because you know you need it. Insurers want as few of these folks as possible on group plans, because they know they will have to pay out benefits for sick people. Clumping all the sick/"uninsurable" people together is not going to make their coverage any more affordable. And having all these individual employer-sponsored plans just divides up the risk and adds to the profits of all these insurance companies.

    What DOES work is to pool everyone together. The relative incidence of sick people to healthy people in the total population is comparatively low, which has the result of lowering costs overall. Add to that mix some comprehensive preventive care, and you'll see an appreciable lowering of the cost of health care insurance. (BTW, a very good argument for single-payer...)

    Note that the cost of CARE is driven in large part by two factors: legal liability for docs (malpractice insurance) and the idea that prices are jacked up for those with insurance to compensate for the cost of care for those without any insurance at all. The second factor should level off when everyone is required to have some basic form of health insurance.

    What Boehner is really saying is that if you are unlucky enough to be in poor health, that's too bad for you; don't make it OUR problem. Too bad for him - it already is.

    •  I disagree..... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cocinero

      ... with several things you said.

      You are correct that pooling everyone is the best and fairest way to spread average costs over all participants.

      Medical malpractice cost is only a small fraction of our health-care bill - 1%  to 1.5% TOTAL according to many sources.  Other sources say that tort reform to prevent unfounded suits in inherently risky medical proceedures would save no more than .5%.

      When talking about costs we must look to health care in other countries with similar per-capita income and social habits as the US.  We are now spending almost $8,000 per year per person (that is everybody including the 40 million not covered at all and the 100 million with marginal coverage).  Canada spends about $5,000 per capita, and in spite of what you may have heard offers excellent full coverage to ALL Canadians.  The major complaint I heard from a very good Canadian friend was a raise in the co-pay for ordinary Dr's visits.  When polled, 90% + of Canadians like their system.  Also in spite of what you may have heard, wait times for non-emergency procedures and specialists visits are two to four weeks -- which is pretty damned close to how long it takes to get an app't on this side of the border.

      We need to recognize the selfish lies the Republicans and their insurance and pharmaceutical company allies are feeding us.

      Labor was the first price paid for all things. It was not by money, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased. - Adam Smith

      by boatwright on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 06:38:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pre-existing crying not allowed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    this just in

    Seeking Awareness and Truth for all Americans

    by The Sheeping of America on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:44:10 PM PDT

  •  Mitch McConnel, John Boenher and Twisted Reality (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero

    Ideological thinking and the twisting of reality that often follows is very curious.  If you saw any of the talk shows last weekend, you saw a pattern to the answers that is most illuminating.

    Extreme ideologies are always self-contained, self-referential systems of modeling the world that require the unquestioning acceptance of a set of premises.  Extreme Utopian ideologies often lead to extreme distortions in ordinary moral judgments.   For the Utopian thinker, the end, human social perfection, can always justify the suspension of ordinary morality.  After all, if perfection is the end result, what matters human suffering in the meanwhile?

    In the case of the US right-wing the premise is: The market as the perfect answer to ALL problems in ALL situations.  Any problems we may be having now are due to factors that prevent the market from working perfectly as it must if it was only allowed to work perfectly.

    When Mitch McConnel was asked what he would propose for the 30 million people without health coverage, one could almost hear the gears grinding as he struggled with what he really wanted to say:  It will just have to be: that 30 million will suffer; that 40 or 50 thousand per year will have to die.  It can't be helped you see; we just have to wait for the perfect market to perfectly deliver a perfect health-care system to everyone who will be perfectly able to always take care of themselves perfectly, because after all in the new Utopia, the perfection the perfect market will bring forth excuses, no DEMANDS, this sacrifice.

    Circular logic like this makes my head hurt.

    Labor was the first price paid for all things. It was not by money, but by labour, that all wealth of the world was originally purchased. - Adam Smith

    by boatwright on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 05:58:02 PM PDT

  •  I Love . . . (0+ / 0-)

    my Republican masters. I love my Republican masters. . .

    Keep repeating until nagging desire to think goes away.

  •  GOPosaurians ARE a preexisting condition; (0+ / 0-)

    therefore THEY must, under their own plan, be denied health insurance.  Let the GOPosaurian extinction event begin....

    I count even the single grain of sand to be a higher life-form than the likes of Sarah Palin and her odious ilk.

    by Liberal Panzer on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 06:08:18 PM PDT

  •  Nora (or someone) needs to phrase it this way: (0+ / 0-)

    Mr. Boehner, please finish this sentence:

    Regarding the  millions of uninsured people with pre-existing conditions, our plan will ......

    That way, it will be more than obvious when he dodges the question.

    I am progressive. I am liberal. I make no apologies. - Kos

    My political compass: - 8.38,-6.97

    by pucklady on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 06:14:29 PM PDT

  •  ask those who have to use COBRA (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero

    and see how affordable it is

    the GOP literally make me sick....

    Faux News ruined my state

    by sc kitty on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 06:31:50 PM PDT

  •  Pre-existing condition= a crime as bad as murder (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero

    If the GOP are going to sentence people to death for the crime of having a pre-existing condition, they at least should have the honesty of putting it on the books as being a capital crime.

    Those unchristian would be executioners. Go to fucking hell, you selfish scum.

    Mitt Romney treats people like things. And he treats things - corporations - like people.

    by richardak on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 06:41:32 PM PDT

  •  Republicans are trash (0+ / 0-)

    Only greedy bastards who believe they have theirs so who gives a crap about anyone else can support this repulsive party.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 07:04:07 PM PDT

  •  Can we please cancel Boehner's insurance... (0+ / 0-)

    and then let him find out what it's like trying to get insurance.

    Only the weak & defeated are called to account for their crimes.

    by rreabold on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 07:12:39 PM PDT

  •  How can it be pushing up heath costs when it (0+ / 0-)

    isn't in effect yet?

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 10:09:24 PM PDT

  •  ISTBY (0+ / 0-)

    Boehner should do a comedy routine that's a variation on Jeff Foxworthy's "You could be a redneck" act:

    If you lost your job ... it sucks to be you.

    If you don't earn enough money to feed your kids ... it sucks to be you.

    If you lost your home to foreclosure ... it sucks to be you.

    If you cannot get health insurance due to pre-existing conditions ... it sucks to be you.

    Let us pause now for a moment of SCIENCE

    by labman57 on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 11:06:12 PM PDT

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