Skip to main content

I favor free and unfettered abortion.  Of course I do...I'm a man.

The personal history is a little more complicated, and a little more painful...but the statement stands.

I am the father that Bill Cosby rails against.  The father who was never there.  Ohhh...I was there at the conception, alright...and I was even there during the birth.  But after that?  Nada, Nyet, zilch.  I was nowhere to be found.  I ran for the hills.  

When I first learned from my fiancee that she had missed her period, I panicked.  And as I write these words, it occurs to me that there is no real way to communicate that panic. Or explain it.  

But at the time, it was all consuming.  And it has followed me for the entirety of my life.  We are just two weeks past Father's Day, and I am a father.  Except for the fact that I'm not.

Never have been, and probably never will be.  

Except for that nagging fact that I have a son.  And, after so many years, a couple of grandchildren.  I've never met them.  I probably won't...and the truth is I don't think about it much.  Except for now...and even now I'm not wallowing in remorse...just a little bit of self flagellation.  

When my first wife and I (we weren't married yet) realized she might be pregnant, I searched for a women's clinic to confirm (or refute) our suspicions.  My fiancee was from Costa Rica...and I was a lad of 26...I didn't have a doctor of my own...never needed one.  I turned to the yellow pages.  Can you imagine that?  Facing such a momentous occasion, and having only the yellow pages to turn to?

 

Of course, I chose a clinic from those yellow pages that turned out to be a front for anti-abortionist Catholics.  My fiancee, being from Latin America, was a Catholic (more or less) and when she got the results from the pregnancy test back and listened to the sermon that the staff delivered, she was adamantly opposed to aborting.  She was open to the idea prior to the clinic visit, by the way...Catholic or not.  But after the hard sell that they gave her (behind closed doors, mind you...I was never invited to that conversation), she walked out of a different mind.  

Once I was confronted with the inescapable fact that I was going to be a father, and there was nothing to be done about it, I prayed for a daughter.  I'm not a religious man, but when your back is pressed against the wall by a rapier, you turn to God.  And God, as is his wont, says "Speak louder...I can't hear you!"  My wife went into labor and bore a son.  By that time she was my wife...I didn't know what else to do except marry her.  I got her pregnant, and she was from Costa Rica, and I had asked her to come here...I couldn't just send her back home pregnant with my child.

I think I've changed about 4 dirty diapers in my life.  I found it to be a disagreeable experience.  My wife, the mother of my child, did all of the dirty work.  Cause I wasn't there, and she had to.  I remember changing my child's diapers once, at a friend's house, when he peed straight up onto both me and all over the bed that I was changing him on.  I managed the clothing exchange, and exited the room in a foul mood.  I was never cut out for parenthood.  I hated it , to be exact.

So what's this got to do with abortion, you might ask?  

It takes two loving parents to raise a child, and if one of them isn't loving, perhaps abortion should be considered.  I was never there for my son...though I was reminded of him every time my paycheck was issued.  I paid child support for 16 years.  Actually, due to the inefficiency and poor record keeping of the Los Angeles District Attorney's office, I paid it much longer than that.  But that's another story.

I got off easy. My ex-wife took it on the chin.  But it was her choice.  Or was it?  At the end of the day, no matter whose choice it was, I felt as if I paid the price...but I say that in dollars and cents.  And it is a petty complaint.

I can't believe that I live in a country that still considers birth control or abortion to  be even somewhat controversial.  Not all of us are cut out for parenting, even if we don't take the appropriate steps to prevent that possibility, and I am one of those people.

My story is not a rarity.  I know that I am one of many.  That's not to say I take pride in my story....I do not.  It is a shadow that has followed me every step of my life.  I know I have a son...my son knows he has a father...we both know that the other is out there...we've (I've) never just figured out how to broach the subject and reach out to one another

He has tried more than I over the years...and in that respect I must say that he's a better man than I am.  I haven't seen him since 2002.  He was sporting corn rows, and pronounced police as "PO-leece".  I'm White, his mother is Costa Rican, and he has grown up in rural Tennessee, amongst a demographic that was distinctly "on the other side of the tracks."  I wish I knew him better, but I don't.  I wish he knew me better, but he won't.  

And that's just the way it is.  

Originally posted to Keith930 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 07:43 PM PDT.

Also republished by Personal Storytellers.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  I really don't know what to say (15+ / 0-)

    I guess it's good that you are honest about your feelings, but, jeez...

  •  No idea of what to say (8+ / 0-)

    Sad story, not sure what to make of it. Blessings for being so honest.

  •  I refer you to my Diary: (11+ / 0-)

    Should Men Have Equal Rights to an Abortion?

    We gotta liberate the men, as well as the women. Otherwise everyone becomes livestock.


    The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

    by Pluto on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 08:02:56 PM PDT

    •  fascinating discussion...I missed this diary (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kyril, Avila

      when you first published it.  I was going through the comments, and will have to go back.

      Really, really interesting....and the gender split is pretty telling.

      Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:44:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Men should be able to say if they want to be a (0+ / 0-)

      Parent.   If they don't and the woman does, then what you are is a sperm donor, that should be recognized in the law.  A woman is the only one that can decide to have an abortion, it is her body and life and her choice but she has to be ready to be a single parent if her sex partner disagrees with that choice.

      •  Excuse me? (4+ / 0-)

        If a man doesn't want to be a father, he should wear a condom or.....here's a radical idea....abstain from sex.

        Why is a pregnancy always the woman's responsiibility? Diaphrams fail. Even the Pill can fail.

        And, let' face it, not every man checks to see if the woman he's going to bed with is using contraception. And if it's someone you just met, how do you know she's not lying if she says "Yes"?

        Sure, maybe she's a liar and totally irresponsible....but that baby is still going to be a the result of two people having sex, not one. You don't want to pay the price, you take precautions.

        And please, quit whining "But it doesn't feel as good!"

        Take your own steps to prevent a pregnancy. Or be prepared to see that charge on your paycheck.  

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 09:51:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Being a parent is a serious business and (0+ / 0-)

          Especially  in the 21st century should never be a forced decision.  A woman has a choice when she get pregnant, she can become a parent or she can choose not to.  A man should be given the same option.  What I hear in your answer is the age old, if I get pregnant I own his ass, not a very mature attitude and a disastrous way to bring a child into this  world.

    •  Yeah, I rembember that Diary! (6+ / 0-)

      Kind of blew me away, but I was new to the Kossack community, and wasn't quite sure how to respond.

      I think Pluto's Diary addresses an important issue of reproductive equality. Men need to understand the risks of abandoning prudence during sexual passion. Women have a choice (and they should). Men - not so much.

      I was was a "sperm donor". Gave some to a crazy woman. Wanted to run, as this Keith930 has written...

      Tried for a couple of years, but found that it was doing me more harm than good to be absent from my son's life.

      (This is not a judgement of Keith930's choice, just my own personal experience of paternity.)

      I love my son, but struggle as a second class parent because of his mom's controlling nature...

      Today.

      Everyday.

      This Diary hit me at the right time, because it reminds of the path that I almost chose. As much as I love my son, I despise his mother. It is easier when I focus on the love, but it is always a challenge. I suppose no matter what, parenting has highs and lows....

      If I would have rolled that condom on, my life would have been much different. For better or worse, that is the limit to male choice in the procreative process.

      My life would be much different had I made that choice. Or maybe a time comes and the procreative imperative exerts itself one way or another. Maybe I was due to conceive. Could have picked a better partner, but could not imagine a better son... Without him, there would be a hole in my life.

      Again, no judgement, just sharing my personal experience.

      Thanks for the Diary (and a belated thanks to Pluto as well.)
       


      I'm a "No Rate" pariah. So when I give a comment "+110% n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround fix to participating in this community!)

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:31:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  you are apparently already assuming (0+ / 0-)

      that women are livestock with all your fucking "litters" comments everywhere

  •  An interesting, bitter, honest diary. (12+ / 0-)

    I will issue neither advice nor judgment, just the observation that your situation doesn't sound easy. I wish you all the best.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 08:07:05 PM PDT

  •  I was not a good father either (14+ / 0-)

    I have contact with my daughter but it's strained. It's an awful way to live and you have my greatest empathy. It's very sad and I  don't have an answer.

    At the same time I love my daughter more than life. I don't know if that even matters

  •  'Unflinching', I believe, would be the word... (12+ / 0-)

    Thank you for your honesty on a difficult subject.

    Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. The Druid

    by FarWestGirl on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 08:13:23 PM PDT

  •  I swear to God that sex education MUST require (18+ / 0-)

    teenagers to actually take care of infants and small children as part of the class.  Kind f like an internship.  Dolls that make loud noises may be annoying, but they don't pee in your face. Eggs are fragile and easily damaged, but they don't throw temper tantrums while you're in the grocery store or trying on clothes at Target. I think we'd see a whole lot fewer unwanted pregnancies if people knew what WORK parenting is.

    I though I wanted kids till I learned that carrying to term was gonna be damned difficult and I'd have to go through a number of miscarriages to do so.  My first husband (he died) and I did some exercises from an excellent workbook, talked a lot, and decided we preferred cats to kids. When I remarried after being widowed, my second husband had already had a vas with his ex-wife.  

    NOT parenting has to be a choice that is regarded as favorably as choosing to have children. Instead, we who are childless by choice are called selfish, immature, unloving, cold and any other name you can think of.  I had plenty of experience with kids 5 to 18.  I was NEVER good with babies or the wee ones. I do better when they can talk coherently.  I was an excellent school and children's librarians--but I sent them home when the class or story hour was done.  That doesn't make me a kid-hater, just someone who prefers not to have any of her own. It isn't like the world NEEDS more people.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 08:26:04 PM PDT

    •  Simulated parenting would help... (4+ / 0-)

      But so, too, would be some training in selecting a good partner. I learned more about road hazards in driver's education than I learned about recognizing dangerous personality types, or about the compelling nature of sexual passion...


      I'm a "No Rate" pariah. So when I give a comment "+110% n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround fix to participating in this community!)

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:37:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And people have kids for the stupidist reasons. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, Avila

      -You're not a real man (or woman) until you've had a kid.
      -Your friends all have kids.
      -Your parents will quit nagging you to have kids.
      -You can buy all those cute baby things if you have a kid.
      -Having a kid will "fix" your relationship with your patrner.
      -Having a baby will make people admire you.

      And the worst reason of all.

      -If you have a kid, you'll have someone to love you.
      (You have a baby because you have love to give, not because you need love.)

      There's only one good reason to have a child. Because you and your partner love kids, can't imagine having one of your very own and are fully prepared for the costs, frustrations and stresses of the job.

      Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

      by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 09:59:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It doesn't take two parents. (13+ / 0-)

    One good parent is enough, and more than many people get.   I am sorry for your pain.  But if you can get past the externals to reapproach your son you may find he is willing to try again.  It may be too late to be his father but it may not be too late to be a friend, or a grandfather.

  •  Well (8+ / 0-)

    As the mother of two boys I find this hard to read. However, it's certainly true that some pregnancies don't occur in ideal, planned, wanted circumstances. Given that your son's mother chose to have the baby it seems like abortion isn't so much the issue here as birth control.

    •  and you are right... (6+ / 0-)

      but birth control was not used.  And color me inhuman, but I do consider abortion as birth control after the fact...among many other things.  

      We should always be responsible, level headed, prudent souls...but sometimes, when the clothes come off, we don't live up to those ideals.  I know I didn't.

      Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 09:24:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It works great for birth control. (0+ / 0-)

        Unless you are actually bred to be livestock and and are willing to immediately roll over, without resistance, and surrender to the twisted animal circumstances of your biology and forsake your elevated conscious aspirations, becoming nothing more than a methane producer.

        You got the shitty end of the stick because you are a man and a sperm donor, under the control of someone who had no respect for what heights of human fulfillment you might have achieved. Instead, she psychologically crippled two human beings to satisfy her own selfish fantasy. Just what we needed. Another human on the planet.


        The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

        by Pluto on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:37:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I can relate to that... (0+ / 0-)

          I really can! But procreation is a powerful biological imperative, and there are many ways that imperative can play out. It doesn't sound like this Diarist is psychologically crippled, nor his son. The financial hit can be a real bitch, though!  


          I'm a "No Rate" pariah. So when I give a comment "+110% n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround fix to participating in this community!)

          by The Angry Architect on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 03:43:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Procreation is a base animal instinct. (0+ / 0-)

            Enlightened and consciousness humans get a handle on that and do what is best for world they live in. They don't spew litters as an indulgence to their animal natures.

            If they are going to procreate, they do so with the awareness of a god.


            The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

            by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 09:44:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I am sorry (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joy of Fishes, JoanMar, Hastur

          but that is bullshit.
          Saying that a man should have the right to decide that a woman should have an abortion is the same as not allowing her to have an abortion when that is her choice.

          Man can control their reproduction by using condoms, abstinence or a vasectomy.

          Both men and women should have control over their own bodies and reproduction, and they should have affordable and easy access to the means through which they can control their own reproduction.

          •  Especially since abortion for some women (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            amsterdam

            can leave emotional scars that  can literally doom them to a life of chronic depression.
            To compare a woman's decision to not have an abortion to a quest to

            satisfy her own selfish fantasy
            is just warped logic.
          •  Woman should have the right (0+ / 0-)

            ...NOT to have an abortion -- but then they are on their own.

            They don't have the right to yank a sperm donor around for the rest of his life because they wish to indulge their mama fantasies.

            It is this selfish immature self-centered helpless indulgent behavior that keeps women shackled in the front yard like livestock. Liberated woman do not pull crap like this against sperm donors. They take responsibility for themselves.


            The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

            by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 09:40:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You don't know anything (2+ / 0-)

              about this woman and why she chose not to have an abortion. I am very much in favour of men controling when they procreate. I suggest they use the means available to them to accomplish that feat.
              I consider myself a liberated woman. But being a liberated woman doesn't mean taking on the talking points of misogynistic men. I leave that to Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann

              •  This is why woman have been chained (0+ / 0-)

                ...in pens for 100,000 years. Now that they are given the tools of reproductive freedom -- they still act without self control and/or self-responsibility. They insist on dragging everyone around them down their fantasy rabbit hole. For life.

                You want to reproduce, fine. If your sperm donor doesn't (and you have the means to control what happens inside your body) -- then you are on your own with your personal decision.

                It's little wonder that women's rights are contsantly under attack with such self-indulgent attitudes.


                The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

                by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:11:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't want to get into (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Pandoras Box

                  a catfight about this issue. I think you have an emotional investment in this issue and so do I.

                  I'll tell you mine, and you may decide for yourself if I am projecting this onto you the way I belief you are projecting onto the diarist's ex-wife.

                  When I see a woman judging and denigrating another woman for all the things women have been judged and denigrated for, and doing this under the banner of being a liberated woman, it gives me the creeps. I don't see a liberated woman, I see a good girl trying to get accepted by the good old boy's club.
                  It gives me the same feeling as watching black people used as props for the republican party.

                  You accuse this woman of lacking self-control and/or self-responsibility, while at the same time not holding the diarist to the same standard. He admits not even having used a condom, but even for that he has an excuse.

                  You have unprotected sex, becoming a parent may be the consequence. There is no reason for the man to think of himself as a victim. If he was so sure he didn't want kids, he should have had a vasectomy.

                  •  These right-wing SEXUALLY PUNITIVE attitudes (0+ / 0-)

                    ...that you express are a threat to the rights of women throughout the world.

                    Your desire to punish men for acts of consentual sex, rather than taking responsibility for how you decide to use your body, are why women are currently under attack:

                    It's nothing personal -- but if you cannot see the cause and effect of this attitude -- and if there are more like you out there, then women's reproductive freedom is doomed for at least another century.

                    Their selfish petulant actions toward men -- AFTER they are given the TOTAL control to reproduce fairly -- are the reason they are legislated like livestock.


                    The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

                    by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:05:31 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Have you been watching (2+ / 0-)

                      Politics lately? The idea that women have full control over their own bodies with all the punitive legislation that has been passed lately, is rediculous. Women still only make 70 cents on the dollar for doing the same job as men. I'll be damned if I am going to waste my time blaming women and feeling sorry for men like this diarist.

                      Men have enough options to make sure that they don't impregnate a woman. They are not victims.
                      I have not called the diarist's ex-wife a victim, and I don't know whether she sees herself as one.
                      It is a fact that if you have sex, a pregnancy may be the result. Men have to weigh the risks before the act, women still have an option after the act. Those are the facts of life.
                      And I'm sorry if I don't get all upset if women in this one instance have more options than men do. I'll rethink my position when women have reached full economic equality.

                    •  I respect you (2+ / 0-)

                      and I like a lot of the stuff you write, but in this case I have to say you've lost touch with reality.
                      I think you should read my previous post and think about it.

                      You seem to suggest that those rights are linked to good behavior like not holding men accountable, and now they are taking them away because we have been bad girls.

                      You can't be serious.

                •  we've been chained in pens because we don't (2+ / 0-)

                  say "how high" when a man says "jump?"

                  women may have reasons for not choosing an abortion - even when a man wants them to have one. and they may be driven by a number of reasons - personal, religious, whatever.

                  and they may actually be GOOD people...not devious evil plotters

            •  So the sperm donor is helpless? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              amsterdam

              She held a gun to his head and said, "Do it now!"

              He had no choice? No free will?  No moment when he could have pulled a condom from his pants pocket and said, "Just to be on the safe side, honey."

              (And if anyone says that loathesome phrase, "Boys will be boys!" I will reach right through my computer and strangle you. )

              Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

              by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:05:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The woman has the power not (0+ / 0-)

                ...to drop a litter if she chooses not to.

                It's her choice.

                The man has no choice, but should be given the right to remove himself from any involvement with her utterly selfish and negligent use of her body.


                The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

                by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:13:33 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The man has no choice. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  amsterdam, Pandoras Box

                  So....babies are made when a woman points a gun at a man's head and says, "You WILL have sex with me and you WILL NOT wear a condom!"

                  Last time I looked, condoms were being sold at every convenience store in my area.  For a few bucks.

                  The man has no choice.

                  Right.

                  Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

                  by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:07:39 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Again, you can punish his pee-pee (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Mnemosyne

                    ...all you want for having sex with a woman's vagina.

                    But that does not absolve the woman of the RESPONSIBILITY to reproduce -- OR NOT -- like a conscious, thinking adult.

                    If she drops a litter -- despite a man's legally filed objection within the time that she could abort it -- then she may not destroy his destiny willy nilly because she thinks that her animal hormones "must be obeyed."

                    With POWER comes RESPONSIBILITY.


                    The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

                    by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 11:20:50 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You are missing the point. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Pandoras Box

                      Don't start a "litter" in the first place.

                      Decision his. He makes that decision, no worries.

                      With RESPONSIBILITY comes POWER.

                      Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

                      by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:22:45 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  This is the attitude that is holding back (0+ / 0-)

                        ...woman's rights.

                        It is self indulgent and whiney and childish.

                        I am hopeful that millennial women are more socially  mature, so that women gain full equality and control over their lives. If they behave as equals they will be treated as equals. That requires legal parity.

                        This is an extremely important issue -- and women on the left are running way behind.


                        The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, where poverty and infant mortality are rising, and where the constitution appeases slave-holders instead of benefiting citizens.

                        by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 07:59:04 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Oh, yes. A woman who says, "Let men take (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Pandoras Box

                          responsibility too!" is "whiney."

                          This from people like you who claim that a preganancy is entirely that woman's responsibility, that taking care of the  resultant child should be entirely her job, that even asking for child support is unfair.

                          Yep, we women are "whiney." Self-indulgent. Childish.

                          Grow the hell up.

                          Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

                          by Sirenus on Thu Jul 05, 2012 at 06:54:31 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  seriously, Pluto, are you drunk or something? (0+ / 0-)

                      "punish his pee-pee for having sex with a vagina?"

                      WTF?

                      pee-pees and vaginas aren't having sex

                      MEN and WOMEN are

                      the whole person, complete with their biologies and their philosophies

                      •  Nope (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Mnemosyne

                        I didn't bring up the sex act and the punishment for having sex.

                        Last time I looked, condoms were being sold at every convenience store in my area.  For a few bucks.
                        I'm talking about a woman's responsibility when she finds herself pregnant. I don't care how she got that way.

                        If she wants to have a baby and the man does not -- he should be legally cut loose if she refuses to get an abortion.

                        It's her choice.

                        I am talking about individual human rights and responsibilities.

                        You don't get to jerk someone else's life around once you are given total control over your reproductive system -- on a freaking whim.

                        Only a drunk would believe something like that.


                        The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, where poverty and infant mortality are rising, and where the constitution appeases slave-holders instead of benefiting citizens.

                        by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 07:53:46 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  as far as I am concerned (0+ / 0-)

                          you are 'round the bend - promoting anti-choice views for women

                          and, there is a third party here - the child

                          but you don't give a flying fuck about that

                          •  Look, you're wrong. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Mnemosyne

                            I am about total choice for woman.

                            I really believe they do know how to control whether or not they get pregnant. If they get pregnant, it is because they want to.

                            I actually think women are that intelligent.

                            I also think women are capable of taking responsibility for their choice of whether to abort or not.

                            And I believe women know whether or not they are making a baby with willing man.

                            If there is no willing father, then bringing a child into the world is irresponsible -- unless the woman has the means to support it on her own.

                            Trying to force a man who is nothing but a sperm donor to support her and a child he doesn't want (after she has had an opportunity to terminate the pregnancy at his request)  is the kind of bad behavior that is destroying woman's rights.

                            I do care about children.

                            Did you know that 40,000 children starved to death in agony today? 10,000 more died of thirst or dirty water.

                            40,000 more will die tomorrow and the next day and the next day.

                            I think about those children each and every day.

                            Do you?


                            The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, where poverty and infant mortality are rising, and where the constitution appeases slave-holders instead of benefiting citizens.

                            by Pluto on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:03:42 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  oh give me a break - bullshit starving (0+ / 0-)

                            children argument - that's a subject for a different diary

                            i cannot believe how much science you are denying

                            i also think women are intelligent but you think birth control is perfect?

                            bullshit

                            and that is where your argument breaks down - right there

                            it is NOT perfect and all women who get pregnant unexpectedly but don't wish to abort are NOT evil

                            apparently, for you, ONLY the women can be wrong

                            and somehow men are PUNISHING us because we DON'T abort when they say so?

                            and you think THIS is the place from which all these horrible laws are springing?

                            your insistence that birth control is perfect, science denial, lack of compassion for women, and whacked out leap of logic that women are destroying their own rights by the BAD BEHAVIOR of NOT having abortions when men demand we do so, is flat out nuts

                        •  furthermore the idea that women (0+ / 0-)

                          have total control of their reproductive system is a very nice dream, but it is NOT reality

                          go back to whatever planet you claim to be from please

                •  drop a litter? (1+ / 0-)

                  wow - the impersonal way you state that says a lot about how you feel about...something

                  other women
                  children
                  the rights of women in general

                  yikes

            •  I cannot tell you just exactly how much (0+ / 0-)

              respect I have lost for you today but it is a lot, a lot.

        •  He could have worn a condom, you know. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          amsterdam, Pandoras Box

          Or just said "No."

          It takes two people to make a woman pregnant. If you don't want a pregancy in your life, take steps to prevent it.

          Even if you're a man.

          Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

          by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:01:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I can't have much sympathy for you... (6+ / 0-)

    You had sex and didn't use birth control.  You knew what could happen.  Whether you wanted an abortion or not, the child was born, and you should have stepped up and served as his father.  

    I've heard this crap from other men (I'm a man myself) about how some poor guy got his girl pregnant, and then she doesn't want an abortion and that's so bad.  Usually these idiots don't use a condom themselves and instead rely on the woman to take the pill, and then blame her for what happened.    

    Give me a fucking break!  If you don't want that to happen, then keep it in your pants, or at least in a condom.  What I see in these stories is a bunch of wimps feeling sorry for themselves, and refusing to take responsibility for their actions.  Don't have sex with someone you wouldn't want to have a kid with, and certainly don't have unprotected sex, and don't rely on the woman to "take care of the problem" either before or after conception.  Take responsibility yourself and use a condom if you can't bear the consequences of having a child!  And if you don't do that, then man up to what comes to pass.  

    Anyway, you made your decision, and maybe you're right that you couldn't be a father, but the truth seems to be that you didn't even try.  I can't really respect that.  

    If I were you, I'd see if there's still any chance of having a relationship with your son.  Maybe it's too late at this point, but...  I don't know.  I have a hard time putting myself in your shoes, because at just about every juncture I would have acted differently.  

    I'm sorry if you don't appreciate these comments, but it's my honest opinion.  I don't think you're the worst person in the world by any means, but I don't see much that is noble in the way you acted.  

    •  Your Calvinist response prompted me to (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto, cohenzee, kyril, Hastur, Avila

      reread my diary.  Having done so, I can honestly claim that I never presented myself as being noble.   Only human.

      And if I were you...well, I'm not you, am I?  

      Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:16:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pssst!! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        Just sayin'


        The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

        by Pluto on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:26:06 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I find little humanity (4+ / 0-)

        in your total lack of empathy towards the kid. I am not talking about feeling fatherly love. The kid reached out to you after you ran out on him, because he had shitty diapers and pissed on you. And then you blame your lack of feelings for him on his corn rows and his diction.

        It is you buddy, not him.

        You decided to write this diary for whatever reason. Abortion rights have nothing to do with it. Abortion was available at that time. You didn't take your responsibility then and you are not doing so now.

        You write about how you feel about your son as a cold fact. To call someone a calivinist because he presents you with the cold fact how he feels about you, is hypocritical.

      •  Calvinist? If that means "Taking responsiblity (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pandoras Box

        for your own actions" then we need a lot more Calvinists in this world.

        Your whole post is little more than one big whine, with a a little "Gee, I didn't mean for this to happen" thrown in to garner sympathy.

        If you didn't want to know your son, fine. Live with it. Don't complain about hurt feelings now. If you really want to try to know him, do so....and don't complain if he says "Thanks, but no thanks."

        As for "I'm only human!"....I wish I had a dime for every time I've heard that as an excuse for irresponsible behaviour. From both men and women.  Who did something foolish because it  "felt good" even though they knew it might have consequences. Then bitch about the consequences.

        Everyone makes mistakes.  Most people do their best to fix those mistakes, or  live with them if they can't be fixed. Period.
         

        Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

        by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:14:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  was I asking for sympathy? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto, kyril

      I don't think so.

      Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:19:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  First you rejected your son for being born. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Joy of Fishes, amsterdam

        Then you reject him because you don't like his style.  You suck.

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 12:10:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, the diaper incident was absurd. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart, chicago minx

          Gosh, Keith he peed on your face. Like that doesn't happen to every parent. Try staying up all night with a baby that's screaming it's head off because of colic or because it's sick. Try handling that night after night.

          And he wears cornrows.  Good God. You don't give a damn about what's in his head, just what's on it. You define the term "shallow.'

          And I'd have no problem with any of that if you'd had the good sense to carry around a condom in case you "got lucky." But you couldn't be bothered. Not your problem.

          So a kid has to grow up without a dad.

          Nice.  

           

          Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

          by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:22:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  You know, I once visited a planet (0+ / 0-)

      ...that had a dominate species that may be related to you.

      It was something of a hell hole. God knows, I didn't feel comfortable there -- but I don't really do well in extremely primitive environments.

      In any event, I just wanted you to know you had star twins out there among the dark matter.


      The US is the only industrialized nation where gun ownership is a right, health care is a privilege, infant mortality is on the rise, and the constitution is written to appease slave holders rather than to benefit citizens.

      by Pluto on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:23:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Keep it in your pants is the only fail-safe! (0+ / 0-)

      But, perhaps better an absent father than someone who is ill prepared to parent. You are entitled to your opinion as to what you "can respect", but there is an element of randomness in procreation as well. No matter what intent or circumstance one attempts to create as a parent, no outcome is guaranteed.

      Various family structures may produce necessary variety in human types that benefit our social diversity.

      Children loose parents to war, accidents, disease... They may yet prosper or even be stronger and more self-sufficient as a result... Such is the random nature of humanity.


      I'm a "No Rate" pariah. So when I give a comment "+110% n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround fix to participating in this community!)

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:11:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •   (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JoanMar

      But, perhaps better an absent father than someone who is ill prepared to parent. You are entitled to your opinion as to what you "can respect", but there is an element of randomness in procreation as well. No matter what intent or circumstance one attempts to create as a parent, no outcome is guaranteed.

      Various family structures may produce necessary variety in human types that benefit our social diversity.

      Children loose parents to war, accidents, disease... They may yet prosper or even be stronger and more self-sufficient as a result... Such is the random nature of humanity.


      I'm a "No Rate" pariah. So when I give a comment "+110% n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround fix to participating in this community!)

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 04:13:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you. Great comment! n/t (0+ / 0-)

      Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

      by Sirenus on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 10:05:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I admire honesty and this is nothing if not (8+ / 0-)

    brutally honest. We need more people to be as honest.
    It is also very, very troubling...and oh so sad.
    My first concern is, the child - your son - is here. It is heartbreaking that you can look at him and still think of the abortion you didn't have. Once the child is here, there is no way I could think of him not being here. It simply breaks my heart to read that.
    My second concern, (and I beg of you to take this question in the spirit of your diary  and be brutally honest) does the child's race have anything to do with your continued distance?
    The thought occurred to me because you wrote this:
     

    He was sporting corn rows, and pronounced police as "PO-leece".  I'm White, his mother is Costa Rican, and he has grown up in rural Tennessee, amongst a demographic that was distinctly "on the other side of the tracks."
    Maybe if you had played a part in his life he would not be pronouncing police as PO-leece.
    I know that sounds condemnatory but really I am not judging you; I am just trying to understand. After all, who knows what could have happened had you stayed with the family feeling the way you do.
    •  No, Joan (5+ / 0-)

      there's nothing racial about my feelings in this matter.   His mother is Latina, and she was a beautiful woman.  She still is.

      The cornrows and POleece has nothing to do with his parentage, but rather with who he chose to hang around with, emulate and self identify with.  

      Was I there to keep him from becoming a wannabe gangsta?  No I wasn't.  His Mom was, but it happened anyway.  But if the kid next door was copping that style, I would feel the same way.  It's not a road to anywhere good.

       

      Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

      by Keith930 on Tue Jul 03, 2012 at 10:59:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good on you for paying child support (7+ / 0-)

    you may not be a dad, but you're not a dead beat dad.  As I read this again it seems even clearer to me that this diary is not about "abortion" from one man's point of view (and why would a woman be less likely to believe in abortion rights than a man?) but about your son, or that you have a son.  You seem to still have a good relationship with his mother and if you wanted to get in touch with him that would be a good place to start.  Ask her for recent pictures, and pictures of the grandchildren.  10 years is a long time.  If he knows you are interested he just may contact you.  
    Many kids grow up without fathers.  It's not ideal but it happens, and having paid child support and remaining friendly with his Mom you are way ahead in the absent father stakes.
    I have had a very personal reaction to your diary.  My husband had an absent father but reestablished contact with him as an adult.  I know it was valuable for him, and may be important to your son as well.  As I said in my comment above it's not too late to be a friend, or a grandfather.  
    I hope this is a helpful comment for you -- I don't mean to be judgmental.  

    •  I, too, had another look at the diary. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chicago minx, Keith930

      I think Keith may have been a dad had his child been a daughter; he said he prayed for one. That tells me that he was halfway prepared to love his child. I am beginning to think that this has little to do with abortion...
      I was haunted by this diary last night.
      I remain unutterably sad that a father could look at his off-spring - after nearly thirty years - and still think abortion.

  •  tipped and rec'd for your painful honesty.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marykk, JoanMar

    may you find common ground in both your lives and get to know one another...  for both your sakes.

  •  eh. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sirenus

    your basic argument is "I'm a shitty person therefore abortion should be legal."  there are a lot of compelling reasons that it should be legal, but I'm not finding your argument persuasive of anything other than that you suck.

  •  Maybe you might consider returning his interest (4+ / 0-)

    who knows, he could actually turn out to be an interesting human being.  Maybe in addition to him, you've shortchanged yourself.

    If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

    by marykk on Wed Jul 04, 2012 at 08:34:56 AM PDT

  •  I just...really...like this diary (0+ / 0-)

    And I have no judgement for you.  I have never had judgement for any woman that I have known who has admitted that she doesn't want to be a parent or that she went there and hated every minute of it.  It is a fact, even a studied fact, that some of us do not become lovesick over our children once we have bred.

    I can't demand that you be anything. If I'm willing to respect that people not of my sexual orientation are people too and worthy human beings, I must also respect that people not of my procreation orientation are also worthy human beings.  Your brain did not become bathed in oxytocin when you held your infant.  Who do I blame for that?  You sort of suspected that the oxytocin and babies things skipped you too, should I be upset or dislike you because you know yourself?

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site