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I apologize for the short diary, but isn't there a way to track Mitt Romney's movements by checking his air flight patterns during the years 1999 and 2002? Can we search the federal air space system to see those records? I don't have experience in this matter, but maybe some of you might.

Originally posted to The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 02:44 PM PDT.

Also republished by ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement.

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Comment Preferences

  •  This might prove he flew to specific locations (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ericlewis0

    for Bain in that time period.

  •  Or relevant? (4+ / 0-)

    After all, he must have spent most of his time from 1999 to 2002 in Utah because the Democrats challenged his Massachusetts residency and his right to run for governor.  Since the invention of the telegraph in 1836, it has been possible to run a company from afar.  Subsequent inventions have only made it easier.

    "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals, now we know that it is bad economics." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Jan. 20, 1937

    by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 02:52:42 PM PDT

  •  Googled: His head took one-way flight to his ass. (12+ / 0-)

    ;)

    I ♥ President Barack Obama.

    by ericlewis0 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 02:53:56 PM PDT

  •  Not to defend Romney, but today one of his (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    betson08, peacestpete, Wolf10

    Bain partners stated that Bain was run "by a management team" during the Olympics. For the most part probably true, but he did say that they had a hard time getting in touch with Mitt as he was very busy. Also, more than likely true, but also suggests that Romney did, in fact, have some dealings with Bain during that period which is contrary to what he said on Friday.

    "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

    by Templar on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 02:59:32 PM PDT

    •  How do you know it was probably true? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      yella dawg, philipmerrill, Wolf10

      Getting Mitt Romney's company to vouch for him is like getting Gaddhafi's men to vouch for him.

      •  Well, hundreds of people were aware of his (0+ / 0-)

        extensive involvement with the Olympics during this period. We cannot dispute this fact (and I don't know anyone who is). I, therefore, conclude (right or wrongly) that it is "probably true" a management team ran the day to day operations during the time he was physically present in Utah.

        "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

        by Templar on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:53:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually that was an admission. (0+ / 0-)

        He said he was trying to get in touch with him.

        Full stop.  

        Why get in touch with someone who has no say?   Did he mean to check a trade for their fantasy football team?

        "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

        by justmy2 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:01:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  slink - although some of the Bain Capital partners (0+ / 0-)

        are prominent Democrats. One of the partners ran for public office as a Dem.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:49:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Templar, I'll grant that day to day operations (6+ / 0-)

      of Bain were in all likelihood run by subordinate managers but this is not, and was not the real issue.  Romney tries to claim immunity from any responsibility for the delayed negative consequences of his predatory Bain business model of loading firms up with debt, gain by getting employees to pledge their pension funds as collateral, taking out professional fees and then leaving them for bankruptcy.

      That GTI, the one company the Obama campaign chose to exemplify this, did not go bankrupt until a few years later, should not, and does not refute the Obama's campaign assertion that Romney's Bain experience is a greater liability, than asset, when it comes to his qualifications to be POTUS.  

      This is a classic GOP political trick.  Redefine a political controversy they will lose on the merits of the case, to be a different red-herring detail controversy, they can win, and then declare victory for the original controversy if they can win the redefined red-herring detail.  

      The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

      by HoundDog on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:33:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  HoundDog, I agree completely. I was making the (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, greenbird, Cartoon Peril, Wolf10

        point that he did have some dealing with Bain (the corporation). As you may be aware, I have pointed out in other postings that he never said that he was not involved in Bain-related investments and this is where the attention should be given rather than the Bain "shell corporation" itself.

        How many company boards of Bain related investments did Romney serve on and how many meetings did he attend - either in person or via conference call? And, what kinds of decisions was he involved in?

        This is the real meat of this issue.

        "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

        by Templar on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:48:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I've followed your excellent work on (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          shenderson, Templar

          the case, and learned much from you Templar.  Sorry, if I inadvertently "grandstanded" to you valid comment.  

          Someone needs to say with a megaphone, "HoundDog, take your fingers off the keyboard, and step back from the computer!"   I'm so worked up, by waking up late, and seeing Candy Crowley and other, otherwise professional CNN reporters get taken in again by this Republican trickery.

          It drives me crazy, to the point, I get unhinged and misfire.

          I still have George Bush "derangement syndrome" for the fact that he got away with his lies taking us into the Iraq War on what was false evidence.  We pointed it out, to no avail.  

          Actually, I'm still upset and "un-hinged" that Ronald Reagan wasn't impeached for Contragate, in violation of US law.  Every time I hear Republicans claim he was the greatest president ever, or go through the Reagan airport my face burns.

          My greatest fear is that I'm actually living in a bad episode of the Twilight Zone, and they are going to rename major airports after Bush, Romney, and even Dick Cheney, and you all will have to put me in four point restraints.  

          But, I will still find a way to rant and rave her at DKOS with one of those keyboard you can control with a straw.

          Sorry, for my sloppy comment, my friend. Please come and visit me every now and then.  

          The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

          by HoundDog on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:05:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  HoundDog, thanks for your comments. I likewise (0+ / 0-)

            appreciated your postings.

            I'm an old (71+) Kennedy Democrat and never remember any time in the past when Republicans have "eaten their own" as they have with Romney this past week. It seems clear, as many of us have noted, they are having serious buyer's remorse based on the number of them that have been jumping off the fastly sinking Romney "Titanic" ship.

            I've never seen anything quite like this. Today David Frum joined the fray and Fox "News" lead story states that Romney has no one to blame but himself! Hell, I well remember the "grand old party" defending Nixon almost to the very end.

            Can it be that for the first time in recent history the party delegates refuse to nominate their promised candidate?

            I'm going out for more popcorn - I know I'm going to want it.

            "I cannot live without books" -- Thomas Jefferson, 1815

            by Templar on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:06:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Templar - this is really a matter of fact (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wolf10, Templar

      Nearly all investment partnerships are run by weekly meetings where all the partners and senior staff meet to discuss the portfolio, including new investments. The question I would ask is did Romney receive all the weekly investment committee materials, including the extensive due diligence packages on new investments? In addition, minutes are taken as these weekly meetings and did Romney formally vote for new investments, or not? If he wasn't receiving the materials and didn't vote, a big if, then he really was out of the decision making process.  

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:57:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting idea (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, greenbird, Wolf10

    would think it would depend, assuming he flew privately, who owned the plane and if it could be identified.  Maybe on Bain corporate tax return?  Somebody who knows how corporate aviation works might have ideas.

  •  Ideally, we'd get our hands on the government's (9+ / 0-)

    secret phone surveillance and see a regular late night phone calls with principles.  For over a decade, I managed a consulting firm, even while during over 150 client site days, from around the world.

    It seems inconceivable that the senior most partners who did manage the day-to-day operations did not check out the major strategy, and deal issues with the "sole owner, CEO, Chairmen of the Board, and president."

    We Democrats do have to be careful not to budge from the moral high ground, into the redefined bogus issues, of "did he, or did he not get involved in 'day-to-day" operations, as Ed Gillespie put out this afternoon."  This is not the issue, and is fact, irrelevant to the core issue.

    Romney claimed his Bain experience, and history of creating a 100,000 jobs was a model to how he would transform our nation and be a better leader than "community organizer" President Obama.   First, Newt Gingrich, then the Obama campaign objected noting that Romney did not create net-jobs but destroyed them, and did not launch value added new companies, but instead engaged in vulture capitalism, loading firms up with debt, leveraged against employee pension funds to pay their high professional fees, then left companies bankrupt.

    The one example, out of several dozen the Obama campaign chose as an example for a commercial was GTI, which didn't go bankrupt until 2001 (or after 1999.)

    So, the significance of the February 1999 days, when Romney claims to have left Bain, is he is claiming "immunity" for any bad things that happened after this date.

    The highest level response is to refute this bogus claim of immunity for the actions, and business formula Romney created prior to this date.   It took time for some of these companies, such as GTI, to go bankrupt after they were raped and pillaged by Romney.  His claim that he can't be linked to GTI, and other companies, because they didn't finally die until after February 1999, is absurd.  

    Imagine a surgeon who botches a surgery, but then claims the nurses were at fault, because he had already left the building and they were responsible for day to day operation.

    Candi Crowley, and the whole CNN fell into the trap of the Repubican redefinition of the debate into the question of "did Romney have day to day operating responsibilities?"  Oh, he was in Utah, so John King issues three "Pinnochios" to the Obama campaign.  This is a pathetically low level of intellectual concentration.

    Yes, let's point out that Romney was still the sole person legally and morally responsible for all Bain Inc (and it's various "entities") after from 1999 to 2002, and yes, let's point out the character and integrity issues of his deliberate duplicitous contradictory testimony to the Mass Election boards, SEC filings, and Olympic contract (where he claimed these connections were severed to avoid conflict of interest --- BUT, let's not allow the GOP, and CNN to lose sight of the bigger picture of Romney's responsibility for GTI, the other devastating corporate disasters caused by Romney's predatory vulture capitalist business model -- regardless of when the victims actually died.

    And, it is not just CNN, who has fallen short with this "redefintion" of the issue.  The WaPo fact checkers erred similarly.  

    Why are so many professional news organizations failing to grasp the big picture here?  The issue of who had day-to-day operating responsibilities after February is not the  core issue, except to the extent that Romney' duplicitous and contradictory statements about it expose his lack of character and integrity.

    Romney designed the Bain business model and strategy in 1984, trained the partners, lead the team, and as sole owner still called the shots of the whole Bain operation through 2002, and perhaps, beyond is is therefore not only legally, but also morally responsible for all of it, even the delayed consequences.

    Perhaps, the most interesting point to notice about the post 1999 period, is that Romney is so insistent to disavow any connection to it, which basically concedes the moral issue -- it was shameful and he wants nothing to do with it.

    A point CNN should be intelligent enough to note, is that as far as the underlying causal business strategy and source of Bain profitability, there was no difference before, or after February of 1999.  

    Key Point> Romney's Bain experience is not an asset but a liability with regard to his qualifications for Presidency of the United States, compared to President Obama's experience and character.

    At two levels, the core substance of Romney's vulture capitalism  business experience and knowledge is not a model for transforming the the US Economy.  

    And, secondly, what we learn about Mitt Romney's lack of character, lack of compassion, willingness to lie, and unwillingness to take responsibility for his own actions, disqualifies him as a suitable candidate for POTUS, and is so inferior compared to President Obama, that it is embarrassing for all to see.

    The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HoundDog on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:24:44 PM PDT

    •  This is a diary! (5+ / 0-)

      CAn you post it?

      Helping a food pantry on the Cheyenne River Reservation,Okiciyap." >www.okiciyap.yolasite.com<"

      by betson08 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:31:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks beson08, but then I'd have to spell (6+ / 0-)

        check, have an original opening theme or some reason for the post.  

        Dang! Its so much easier just to pop off in response to someone else's hard work.  

        BTW, I should have said while I was doing 150 client/audience days a year,  150 over a decade this would be a light schedule.  Folks may get the impression I've always been as lazy as I am now.  I used to work 18 to 20 hours a day, seven days a week, as sole stockholder (for quite a while) CEO, Chairmen of the Board, and President (which is redundant with CEO, IMO)

        But, I can tell you every such entrepreneur I know, and I know lots, would not suddenly walk away from their life's work, and baby, and leave it in the hands of subordinate managers for three years.  Romney certainly check in by phone, on all big, and even moderate business issues, all strategic issues, and all major investments, and deals with portfolio companies.

        The Boston Globe yesterday already reported Romney's signature on six major, post 1999 deals, the press releases after the departures of two key principles, and all legal filings.  

        Legally, he was responsible for all actions, and transactions from 1999, to 2002.  

        And, with regard to the morality of all the 1984 to 2002 activity he is morally responsible even if some of their client companies took some time to go bankrupt.

        The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

        by HoundDog on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:46:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  that's how they tripped... (5+ / 0-)

    up Colonel Jessup in A Few Good Men. Demand to know if he outsourced the jobs in a smarmy fashion and hope Mitt snaps.

    As a nation, the U.S. consumes the most hot dogs per capita. So you'd be wise to never underestimate our powers of denial.

    by jbou on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:26:43 PM PDT

  •  I don't think anyone is stating he never flew back (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shenderson, slinkerwink, Wolf10

    To Massachussets.  They are questioning what he did  when he was home.  

    But it doesn't matter.  He had implicit veto power.  He is basically saying he was a CEO that paid no attention and he thinks that absolves him of responsibility.  Sounds like a president a few years ago.  

    That is what he needs to be hit with.  He created romneycare but takes no responsibility.   He ran a company but wasn't responsible for it.  He isn't responsible for tea partiers or surrogates words.  

    No accountability.   How can you trust him?

    That is how you disqualify him.

    "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

    by justmy2 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 03:53:18 PM PDT

  •  Slink, I think you're on to one small aspect of a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    slinkerwink, Wolf10

    larger picture. Yes, flight patterns could be telling, and not just Mitt's, but also the managing partners. Phone records too. Might also be interesting to see if it could be proven that Bain rented office space near where ever Mitt's Olympic office was.

    These pukes are so arrogant it never would have occurred to them how many tracks they were leaving.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 04:06:16 PM PDT

  •  Not clear that he was using a private jet... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wolf10, MKSinSA

    ... this 2011 article seems to suggest it's unlikely:

    Mr. Romney, 64, has poured $52 million of his own money into campaigns for the Senate and the White House, but is obsessed with scoring cheap flights on the discount airline JetBlue.
    Mr. Wolpow recalled Mr. Romney’s response after learning that a few Bain Capital executives had invested their own money in a jet-sharing program to make travel easier.

    “I don’t see how anyone could spend $2 million on the share of a private jet,” Mr. Romney told him.  

    Even if he was, from a quick browse around various public flight-tracking websites, it's not entirely clear to me that the data would still be around.  But it might be?
  •  Great diary. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nada Lemming, Wolf10, ratmach

    Every voter will be fixated on Bain and Romney.

    That will definitely help Obama win.

    Obama, and his superpac, are doing a great job airing Romney and Bain ads.

    I was just talking to my neighbors the other day, we had a block party, and all the discussion was about Romney and Bain.  Good stuff.

    •  I got money-begging emails... (0+ / 0-)

      ... the other day from both the DNC and Obama. I know a whole bunch of other people who got them too. And every one of those people had the same reaction: Oh my god! You gotta be kidding me! Hahahaha!

      In other words, if Obama is gonna win this, he's gonna have to do it without the help of a WHOLE bunch of people who he counted on in '08.

      "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

      by ratmach on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 09:44:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I doubt you can do this unless you had his ID (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wolf10

    I would hope that the average travel agent could not pull up my travel record.

    The Muslim said "I wished I had met Christ before I met the Christians" - Rev. Marvin Winins

    by captainlaser on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 07:16:47 PM PDT

  •  More profitable would be to get a reporter (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wolf10

    to interview Joshua Bekenstein who signed the incorporation papers in 2002 which said that Mitt is a co-managing partner in Bain and subsidiaries.

    Let's hear from him who really ran Bain in 2002.

    The Muslim said "I wished I had met Christ before I met the Christians" - Rev. Marvin Winins

    by captainlaser on Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 07:18:46 PM PDT

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