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Originally posted to Comics on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 06:50 AM PDT.

Also republished by The Bain Files and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I think line 12 would normally be a single (14+ / 0-)

    digit unless you intend to run for President and release that VRG tax form.

    Romney economics: Feed our seed corn to the fattest pigs and trust them to poop out jobs.

    by blue aardvark on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 06:53:35 AM PDT

  •  Breaking news! (0+ / 0-)
    Sunday, September 28, 2012 - Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, in a much anticipated news conference, announced yesterday, “Oh, all right. Here you go.” He then passed around to the press corps copies of his tax returns for the past 20 years, revealing that he paid more than $8.75 million in federal taxes from 1991 through 2010. Polls now show him leading by a 65-35 margin.
    Just sayin...

    Could the Dems be setting themselves up for a surprise? There are dozens of other baskets they could be putting their eggs in. Maybe the tax return basket full enough.

    Thomas Paine: When my country...was set on fire about my ears, it was time to stir. It was time for every man to stir.

    by Bruce Brown on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:06:35 AM PDT

  •  Hilarious! (6+ / 0-)

    Quisquis sollers subtilisque sententia a praeclaro antiquo Sapiente latine scripta, sicut consuetudo est apud Kossackos.

    by French Imp on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:08:00 AM PDT

  •  F. Scott Fitzgerald was right: (6+ / 0-)

    the rich really are different than you and me.

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:08:30 AM PDT

    •  Trailer is out for Gatsby by Baz (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Seneca Doane

      Luhrmann. With Leonardo di Caprio as Gatsby. Opens Christmas day, or it would be nice to see it sink the rich, by election day. Meanwhile, here is my theory: every one of the Bain guys set up the structure of their profits to become their IRAs. They were sticking it to the middle class workers they fired and raided pensions funds of. When this gets all unraveled, it will be worse than Enron.

    •  We're not all like this... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Seneca Doane

      Some rich people actually pay 35% in federal taxes and more when you include state and local taxes. Especially living somewhere like Manhattan where we get taxed a heap.

      I'm not complaining - that's the only way this system will work. Someone has to pay them and my family is happy to pay.

      But all I ask in return is for people to be less liberal with their usage of the word 'rich' (pun intended).

       Firstly, someone in the top bracket of income making mid-six figures is very well-off but we're not the same as the mega-rich who are pay 13% and can egregiously distort the game of life (by that I mean, while I had a significant advantage in getting into schools like Harvard and Yale, I still had to work really hard and score perfect SATs and even then I was waitlisted by Princeton. Some of my peers who were mega-rich scored really poorly (i'm talking like 2000 out of 2400) and got in wherever they wanted). If I want to be rich in life, I'd have to get a high-paying job whereas someone like Romney's son will be set up with a trust fund. I know I sound like an ungrateful brat who wants a violin, and at times I am, but in this case I'm just saying this to propound that not everyone in the top tax bracket has life set and in many ways I'm not different to most Americans.

      Secondly, we don't all gather in clandestine clubs and decide how to hoodwink poor white males without a college degree into voting against their interests. Many billionaires and multi-millionaires will do that, but we're not all homogenous.

      I believe capital taxes should be higher and I think everyone - from the middle class onwards - should pay more taxes by eliminating deductions etc. I also think the highest income bracket should be split with a new bracket of 60% for people making over 7.5 million a year.

      I guess here's my dilemma. I believe there IS a class war going on and my class is winning. But I think its only the very upper echelons of my class that are waging the war - people like my family are going along with the ride for sure but i think the bulk of the malevolence is coming from the Kochs, the Romneys, the Adelsons etc. Yet when I hear the class warfare rhetoric, I feel at times like progressives are vilifying the rich as a blanket statement...

      I don't have any suggestion has to how to minimize collateral damage while going after those who have wreaked the most damage, but I thought it'd be important to note that the rich aren't necessarily different from you.

  •  Can you vote? (5+ / 0-)

    If the 2nd amendment is so powerful that we can't even keep lists of who bought what, then why is the government allowed to use drowns to film us in 1st amendment demonstrations?

    by Deadicated Marxist on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:19:32 AM PDT

  •  OK, that's really, really damning (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541

    considering that we ordinary folk are only allowed to round off to the nearest dollar, why do zillionaires get to round off to the nearest million?

    Now I can totally see why he won't release the forms!

  •  Weird Tax Returns? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Citizenpower, pgm 01

    What Mute Romney doesn't want anyone to see is his "100 million dollar IRA" (how did he do that?), his huge "charitable" deductions which as an Elder of the LDS, he is REQUIRED to tithe at least 10% of his earnings to the Church (not a charity by any means), his tax write-off for Rifalka, Ann Romney's horse. This latter joke ripped off US taxpayers to the tune of $77,000 just in 2010 as a tax deduction. We have to assume that this write-off has been used for several years. It is disgusting that Romney justifies it because it has "helped" Ann Romney in her battle against the ravages of MS. I personally don't want to pick up millions $$ out of my pocket to pay for horse medicine for his wife. For G-d sakes, rent a pony!!

    •  You can purchase securities with IRA money and (0+ / 0-)

      hold them in the IRA.  For Wall Street gamblers like Mitt, that is not really a hard thing to accomplish and I would suspect that is where the bulk of the 100 million came from.  The real problem is the offshore accounts, the top benefit of them is to hide money from being taxed, and if Romney paid everything he was supposed to, why was he using offshore accounts?  I think offshore accounts and his lack of transparency on his tax returns highly suggests he did not pay his fair share of taxes.

  •  Wow I love this (2+ / 0-)

    Those minion expenses would really take a bite if they weren't deductible.

    I'm not liberal. I'm actually just anti-evil, OK? - Elon James White

    by Satya1 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:48:22 AM PDT

  •  He does not come across as robotic at all in this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    diggerspop, Possiamo, Amber6541

    interview.  He comes across as exactly the kind of guy we already know him to be.  

    What's noteworthy about this interview is not the tax return thing, but the very clear statements about his agenda once elected to office.  Repealing Obamacare immediately; cutting government jobs by 10% and lowering pay scales for government jobs to private sector pay scales; "eliminating programs that are not absolutely essential" whatever the hell that means; getting rid of federal management of Medicaid, food stamps, etc. (this is HUGE) and "returning" it to the states; etc.  Not to mention the fact that he's said that he'd eliminate the mortgage deduction for homeowners.  These are all really radical things that probably most people have no idea Romney intends to do.

    The Obama campaign should be making hard-hitting ads on them.  Make a couple of ads, each one laying out clear as daylight a change that Mitt Romney would make:  eliminating the mortgage interest deduction could be the first one.  

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 07:54:00 AM PDT

  •  Oh, did you guys officially back away from the lie (0+ / 0-)

    that Romney paid 0 in taxes?

    Funny how you can push some absolute bullshit lie and then just innocently forget about it all.

    •  It's a lie? How much did he pay, then? (4+ / 0-)

      You realize that for it to be a lie, it would have to be false.  Please inform us of how much Mitt paid in income taxes from 2002 to 2012 or kindly shut the fuck up.

      "My taxes are of the legally correct height, and the core reason for my campaign is to make them a different, lower height, and it is none of your business what precisely either of those heights might be." Mitt, as channelled by Hunter.

      by Inland on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 08:33:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. I thought YRO was snarking... (0+ / 0-)

        Evidently not...

        •  Senate Majority leader Harry Reid (D) claimed (0+ / 0-)

          as much on the floor of the senate.

          Naturally, he refuses to reveal who his sources are.

          Give the Dems credit, they've learned how to play nasty.  Although Obama already knew how, based on how in previous elections he always managed to get sealed documents of his opponents leaked to the press.

      •  Inland is right... (0+ / 0-)

        Romney probably only paid low teens on his taxes (13-15%) which is completely within the law for someone who earns his money through capital gains.

        But it's also arguably immoral and Americans would resent him for that, given they're probably paying a higher %.

        I bet everyone on this board tries to get deductions or use loopholes even when its not 100% ethical as long as its 100% legal. But when you're earning as much as Romney does, it just is bad politics to release any more tax returns than he needs. Even Barack Obama, if I'm correct, paid several % points lower than he should have?

        But Romney takes this to a new level.

        •  Inland was right? (0+ / 0-)

          He vociferously defended the idea that Romney paid 0 in taxes.   Let's try his logic in another arena:

          "Hey, I heard that Obama got into grad school despite having bad grades.  RELEASE THE TRANSCRIPTS OR ELSE SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

          •  He didn't vociferously defend... (0+ / 0-)

            ...the idea Romney paid 0 in taxes. He just said that - for all we know - it is possible.

            But the idea that he could have paid 0 in taxes is feasible and, thus, can be propound UNTIL Romney proves us otherwise.

            Likewise you could argue that Obama probably got decent but not good grades at Columbia and got into HLS because of Affirmative Action. That's a legitimate post until/unless Obama comes out with a transcript that disputes your claim.

            Nevertheless, EVEN IF Obama got into HLS because of Affirmative Action (something that I actually believe), that's a peripheral point because a) he excelled at HLS and b) getting bad grades in college doesn't change or influence his policies as president. FDR was a C-student, JFK was average, W. was notoriously bad at my school, Yale, Reagan didn't even go to a good school and so on.

             Mitt Romney choosing to avoid paying taxes or minimizing his tax liability, even if legally, testifies to a) his character and/or b) his views on taxes (ie. they're not an important civic duty) or the government takes in too much and spends too much etc. Either way it certainly informs his political views. Finally, cabinet secretaries have to release a lot more. As a matter of character, I want to see if he 'cooked the books.' i.e., is he really worth 'only' $250 million or is he worth a lot more.

            And finally, I'm going to spill the beans for you. The reason why 95% of Democrats are calling for him to release tax returns is because politics is about winning. This issue is a great way to denigrate his brand and make him seem untrustworthy and too rich/elite/out-of-touch. Even if he had nothing to hide, it would just be 10 more years of reports for the media to scour for things to write like 'Romney spent 9 million on horses' or 'Romney has 17 cars.'

            I personally think dems should be above this sort of game, but it is what it is. I think we've spent WAY too much time on this, and it's pretty dumb. Who cares if he spends lots of money on horses and cars. I'm pretty sure the people who sell and make horses and cars respectively are middle-class and appreciate his business. I also think that private-equity companies such as Bain are entitled to close down factories that are losing money or aren't as productive as one in China or India. General Motors or any other company in America doesn't have an obligation to anyone but its shareholders. Anyone who thinks differently is naive - I'd like to believe that's true but unless this is a kleptocracy like China or Russia where the leaders of the biggest companies are essentially political appointments, this will never happen again. Jeffrey Immelt can sit right next to Obama while he's ordering jobs to leave this country and you'd have to be terribly naive to expect businesses in non-monapolistic industries to be intentionally compassionate and not take any comparative advantage they can.

            Having said all this, I believe that government has to be much more involved in fixing this country. There are certain jobs like being a call-center worker that are gone for good. What we need is for the private sector to focus on being efficient and a (larger than current) public sector focused on making sure those left by the creative destruction that is capitalism are taken care of through welfare, job re-training, education, and investment in infrastructure and clean energy.

            That's why I am against Romney. Not because he's rich, he spends money on extravagant things like horses, or because he sent jobs overseas as an executive at Bain. I dislike Romney because he doesn't see that what he does at Bain not only can't work for the government but in fact mandates that government be involved in our lives.

            I actually am tentatively thinking of becoming a consultant or maybe work in private equity. But I want to pay more in taxes because I believe its a civic duty and I want my government to re-train and invest in my fellow citizens.

    •  Romney did pay taxes, just a lot less than us (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Amber6541

      mortals.

      He didn't pay his fair share. Americans really do
      understand that point. Its all about fairness.

      •  Oh, he didn't pay what was required? (0+ / 0-)

        Please provide evidence to back this up.

        If you don't think what was required of him was enough because of politicians with economic ideas like Romney, then blame Romney the Republican politician, not Romney the private citizen.

        There is a difference, but the loons can't understand it.

  •  Maybe he can't because he is under investigation (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541, Compost On The Weeds

    already by the IRS and this might create a problem for the ruling.

    The Romney- Adelson connection is going to be trouble enough. Adleson is under investigation by the Justice Dept.
    for his business dealing with China. the Corrupt Practices Act might come into play. Add that to the Latin America dealings with death squad money and you have quite a
    stew for Romney to simmer in.

  •  There is enough information in the 2010 return (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Amber6541, Compost On The Weeds

    to make some waves for Romney. A couple of more would be piling- on. I believe his Bermuda off shore connection is already revealed in the 2010.

    I am not an expert on taxation but I have been talking with someone who is a CPA and one-time tax consultant who has read his return online and made comments that make me think there is enough information to question his business practices. The major problem is that most folks,including me, don't have the expertise to see what is relevant.

    This story is on-going.  

  •  Not just "if" but "who" did Romney pay taxes to? (0+ / 0-)

    That is, what country? If it is learned that he payed more
    in taxes to lets say, the Swiss, is that of concern to Americans?

    I would think so , don't you?

  •  I don't get why the rich want a flat tax (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    filby, pgm 01

    This sample return demonstrates that they already got it!

  •  Great concept form for a Diary. Good work! (0+ / 0-)


    Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain until Aug 2001. Proof of Bain & Romney Fraud

    by laserhaas on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 11:04:31 AM PDT

  •  too true to be funny (0+ / 0-)

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    Mitt Romney is not the solution. He's the PROBLEM

    by TrueBlueMajority on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:40:54 PM PDT

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