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Not a major diary here but that is the question that came to mind when I viewed this clip on Huffington Post today


It doesn't make me terribly happy when someone at Moore's level is already declaring victory for Romney.  However, it could just be Michael Moore's not-too-subtle way of telling us that we've got to hit the streets and get the message out.

What do you all think?

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    puakev, OLinda, Words In Action, tardis10

    hope springs eternal and DAMN is she getting tired!

    by alguien on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:12:55 PM PDT

  •  Michael Moore is not subtle. (2+ / 0-)

    And the time for action was not in the 3 months before the election, but the 45 months before them.  

  •  Moore is an exclamation mark. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, KayCeSF, cishart

    He isn't a serious analyst.

    The universe may have a meaning and a purpose, but it may just specifically not include you.

    by Anne Elk on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:19:08 PM PDT

  •  Both (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    the passion and money are on their side while ours remains complacent or apathetic.  I hope, desperately, that America proves Michael Moore and my own suspicions wrong, in fact I'm counting on it.  But let's just say I'm not supremely confident.

    "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by puakev on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:19:57 PM PDT

    •  What passion are you seeing? I see malaise on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cishart, Tonedevil

      their side. They're just not that into Mittens.

      •  Not passion for Mittens (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        codairem, Cinnamon, Words In Action

        but passionate hatred of President Obama, liberals, public employees, government, and minorities.  As for our side, President Obama had an event at a college town in Virginia yesterday where the Obama campaign folks were predicting a turnout of 15,000.  The actual turnout was 7,000.

        Obama and Democrats deserve some blame for this of course, but I still think given the political and economic realities Obama has faced since he's been president, he's done pretty well.  But people aren't nearly as patient or nuanced or understanding as President Obama assumed when he took office.  They don't care much about the fact Obama inherited an impossible situation.  All they know is that they expected him to be Superman and yet today things still suck.  And that is the reason for the apathy.

        "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

        by puakev on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:40:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I do see passionate Hate. (4+ / 0-)
        •  Desperation. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          puakev, Musial, Tonedevil

          They are desperate about losing the abortion debate forever, if Obama is re-elected.
          That's why they've done so much in the states to restrict abortion.
          Their desperation can masquerade as passion for a while, but eventually they'll have exhausted their neurotransmitters and they'll be down.

          The question is whether the millions being spent by Wall Street can bridge the gap to the election.
          We should not let down and we should get out the vote.
          We'll win.

          You can't make this stuff up.

          by David54 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:58:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There's a difference, though... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tardis10, Tonedevil

          ...between a base that's enthusiastic about voting against the other guy, and a base that's enthusiastic about voting for their guy.

          We had that in 2004; Democrats and liberals of all stripes were jumping at the chance to go to the polls to vote against Bush. But we weren't voting for Kerry as much as voting against Bush with Kerry votes as the medium for expressing that—which meant that our enthusiasm was largely limited to getting our fellow liberal friends to go out and vote for Kerry, which they by and large were going to do anyway.

          But the partisans were going to vote anyway; the difference is whether they're driving alone to the polls, or whether they're taking a car-full of unlikely voters with them. It's much harder to get someone who wasn't already going to vote to go to the polls to vote against the other candidate, than it is to get them to go to the polls to vote for your candidate—and thus far, I've yet to see Republicans get at all excited about their candidate. Even my Republican friends and family on Facebook can't make the case for Romney with a straight face—it's just all Obama-hate, all the time.

          That could prove to be the deciding factor in this close election.

          "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

          by JamesGG on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:30:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Mormons are passionate about Mittens. (0+ / 0-)

          And their are plenty of Mormons in positions of power and influence. And they are admirably organized and industrious. They have a way of amplifying their impact on things.

          Purging predominantly minority voters and requiring them to present IDs to vote in the face of VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD is RACISM! I hereby declare all consenting Republicans RACISTS until they stand up and object to these practices!

          by Words In Action on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:49:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Any evidence for this? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil

            Not all Mormon's are rabid conservatives either... there is a pretty famous one in Nevada right now that isn't a big fan of Mitt Romney.

            So Mitt will carry Utah... big deal, he would have anyways.

            "The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian... America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance." The Real Ron Paul

            by 815Sox on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:53:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Moore is dangerously close to being a racist here (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil

        He is basically saying that blacks and other minorities are too lazy to get out and vote.  Such bullshit.  I used to like this guy.

    •  I agree with Puakev (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      puakev, Supavash, Nulwee, tardis10

      I too am not supremely confident. I recently voted in our primary and alot of republicans were out voting. My democratic friends weren't enthusaistic in 2010 and they still arn't in 2012. My niece is voting for the first time and I polled her and her friends, who are voting for Obama but they all told me that alot of young people weren't happy with Obama and were just going to sit it out. Not, good at all.

  •  I've always liked him (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA, Supavash, KayCeSF

    but he can be a bit of a hyperbolic bomb thrower at times. I wouldn't lose sleep over this, but get work.

  •  Well, some people cannot read polls (4+ / 0-)

    I do thank Mr. Moore for his concern. I would suggest he actually hangout more here and look through the numbers and analysis. Perhaps if he did so he would not sound like a typical pundit on tv who is divorced from reality and married to a a false narrative.

    "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

    by sebastianguy99 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:31:05 PM PDT

    •  Polls of registered voters are one thing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action

      but by all measurements, Republican enthusiasm is much greater than Democratic enthusiasm.  Likely voter models are suspect and notoriously inaccurate.  However in 2010 Republican enthusiasm was off the charts and we know what happened.  Yes, this is a presidential election year so Dem turnout will obviously be higher than in 2010.  However, so will Repub turnout, and the enthusiasm gap has not shrunk by very much, Republicans are still far more enthusiastic.

      As I wrote above, I think Obama's done pretty well under the terrible economic and political circumstances he's had to deal with. But the American people aren't very patient, nuanced or understanding and don't give Obama much slack for the impossible situation he was handed or the fact that getting out of a financial crisis take a very long time, especially when you're dealing with a nihilistic opposition.  All they know is that they expected him (unrealistically) to make everything better than ever and yet today things still suck.  Which explains the lack of enthusiasm on our side.

      "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by puakev on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:55:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  An enthusiastic vote counts exactly as much... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sebastianguy99, tardis10, Tonedevil

        ...as an unenthusiastic vote.

        The voting machines don't detect whether you emit an audible sigh before filling the circle next to your candidate's name.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:32:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think you missed his point. In '08, people (0+ / 0-)

      were engage at this point in the election at a level about 10,000 times more than they are now. Especially young people and minorities.

      Young people are DEFINITELY not nearly as engaged. And it always take gargantuan effort to get out the minority vote in November.

      I don't see any evidence that either the phone banks or the canvassing corps will be nearly as active.

      And the voter suppression engine has been and is in high key. It will decide elections up and down the ticket. And the "hue and cry" is really nowhere to be heard.

      I think way too many people are resting on slim poll margins.

      And the oligarchs haven't even begun to spend.

      I agree with Moore 100%.

      Purging predominantly minority voters and requiring them to present IDs to vote in the face of VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD is RACISM! I hereby declare all consenting Republicans RACISTS until they stand up and object to these practices!

      by Words In Action on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:55:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Or a headline grab? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Supavash, KayCeSF

    Go away, Michael.

  •  California Senator Fiorina and CA Governor Whitman (7+ / 0-)

    would disagree with Moore's assessment that money is the sole determining factor in winning an election.

    Meg Whitman set a record for expenditure in her attempt to buy the Governorship. Meg Whitman got help from Karl Rove and her own deep pockets. Even the Koch brothers tried to undo our environmental laws. None of it happened.

    California and Nevada both had unemployment rates higher than the national average and had third party groups flooding our markets with disinformation during a tea party wave election and neither Big Money or the tea party won.

    Voters can make the difference.

    The choice of our lifetime: Mitt Romney, It Takes A Pillage or President Barack Obama, Forward Together.

    by FiredUpInCA on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 01:46:24 PM PDT

    •  That was California (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nulwee, tardis10, Words In Action

      and America is much more conservative than California.

      And as for Nevada, Reid lucked out by getting a total whack-job in Sharron Angle.  If Nevada Republicans had nominated a more establishment figure, Reid likely would not be a senator anymore.  Romney is an establishment Republican, and while his positions are extreme, he is no Sharron Angle-style whack-job, or at least he is not perceived that way.

      I'm not saying Obama's going to lose, my gut feeling is that he will win by a uncomfortably small margin.  But Moore is right to be worried about the enthusiasm on the other side, motivated not by love of Mitt but by hatred of Obama, and the relative apathy and complacency on our side.  

      "Better the occasional faults of a Government that lives in the spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a Government frozen in the ice of its own indifference." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

      by puakev on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:02:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Glad somebody mentioned Whitman. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FiredUpInCA, Tonedevil

      Also, do you remember Al Cecchi, who ran for governor, spent his private fortune, and still lost in a landslide?

      Money counts, but only to a certain extent.

      I was seeing what Adam had seen on the morning of his creation - the miracle, moment by moment, of naked existence. --The Doors of Perception, Aldous Huxley

      by Wildthumb on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:24:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Every state is different (0+ / 0-)

      as well as the circumstances and scenarios. Gerry Brown was probably was going to win anyway. Plus most of the ppl in California are very intelligent. This is a state that well never flirt with Republicanism, conservatism ever again.

      Moderate Progressive, Born in Cairo, Raised in NY-11, Living in NJ-13.

      by BKGyptian89 on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:49:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama went from Hope and Change (0+ / 0-)

    To Balanced Approach.  Whoppeeee I am so excited.  Just hope he says something other than how eager he is to compromise with extremists next week.  

  •  dont put too much stock in him (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KayCeSF, Wildthumb, Tonedevil

    Not too long ago he was saying that he was disappointed in Obama and not sure if he supports him. The fact that he is surrendering now doesn't surprise me. Just move on and get work.

  •  Hand-wringer Moore? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wildthumb, Tonedevil

    I'll ignore his concern.  He's done this kind of hand-wringing before.  I admire his ethics, but he's still busy promoting doom and gloom.

    We are going to win this!

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:10:56 PM PDT

    •  Right now he's pissing me off royally just when (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KayCeSF, Tonedevil

      we need a cheerleader and not a fucking killjoy.

      I was seeing what Adam had seen on the morning of his creation - the miracle, moment by moment, of naked existence. --The Doors of Perception, Aldous Huxley

      by Wildthumb on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:26:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's always when he comes swooping in with (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Wildthumb, Tonedevil

        his gloom and doom.  Right on Time, Mr. Moore!

        Yeah, he's a "killjoy" alright.  

        I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

        by KayCeSF on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 02:42:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think we need a kick in the pants (0+ / 0-)

        and that's what he's doing.

        There is way to much empty optimism and far too little ground work.

        The activity level and energy today vs. 4 years ago is NIGHT AND DAY.

        Purging predominantly minority voters and requiring them to present IDs to vote in the face of VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD is RACISM! I hereby declare all consenting Republicans RACISTS until they stand up and object to these practices!

        by Words In Action on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:02:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's his way of getting people aware of how (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nulwee, 815Sox

    important this election is.  I trust Nate Silver over Moore.  Yes, enthusiasm could be up on our side but lets wait and see after the convention and Obama can still pack a a house at college events.

  •  I rec'd simply for the importance of the subject (0+ / 0-)

    not so much for the substance of the dairy.

    Purging predominantly minority voters and requiring them to present IDs to vote in the face of VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD is RACISM! I hereby declare all consenting Republicans RACISTS until they stand up and object to these practices!

    by Words In Action on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:46:38 PM PDT

    •  that's ok (0+ / 0-)

      i didn't really expect any recs at all for this.  i just saw it today and it bothered me.  so i wanted to get thoughts from the community here.

      thanks.

      hope springs eternal and DAMN is she getting tired!

      by alguien on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:53:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The fact that Romney is still trying to solidify (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil

    his own base makes me believe that he has some pretty bad internal polling. This race is still Obama's to lose. Lots of people are still not paying attention...

    This always happens around Republican Convention Time... Romney might get a bump, but the guy is losing in his own homestate.

    "The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian... America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance." The Real Ron Paul

    by 815Sox on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 03:51:28 PM PDT

  •  It's all turnout, and the machine is running (0+ / 0-)

    on about two cylinders compared to where it was in August of 2008. The energy level and commitment and determination were palpable nationwide 4 years ago.

    To say that there is ANY comparison makes insane look reasonable.

    I'm amazed at how many can't feel that or, if they feel it, can say it doesn't matter.

    The polls do not tell you who will show up on election day. The also do not tell you will be ABLE to vote on election day, whether they are on the election roll or have the necessary ID or have been given the wrong information about when or where to vote.

    There are more ways this can be lost than won.

    Purging predominantly minority voters and requiring them to present IDs to vote in the face of VIRTUALLY NON-EXISTENT VOTER FRAUD is RACISM! I hereby declare all consenting Republicans RACISTS until they stand up and object to these practices!

    by Words In Action on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:00:25 PM PDT

  •  Michael Moore is not a smart man. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil

    He is a decent man.

    He is a skilled filmmaker.

    He is a shrewd propagandist.

    But, like Chris Matthews, he "goes with his gut" far too often to take his "analysis" seriously.  

    Maybe he's right.  But if he is, it's only because he's a blind squirrel.

    Faby-o, downrec me again. You know I love it!

    by Cheez Whiz on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 04:27:46 PM PDT

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